Wikipedia:Featured list removal candidates/log/September 2024
Keep
edit- The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The list was delisted by Hey man im josh via FACBot (talk) 00:26, 20 September 2024 (UTC) [1].[reply]
- Notified: WP:WikiProject Florida
After browsing some of the featured lists, I did a bit of verification and found many errors. The list appears to be incomplete, does not match the official list, and I tried a few links and found unverified information. It also has old style of lead: very short and starts with "This is a list of ". It also has a paragraph explaining the list, but not in note form. So the entire body of text is a few sentences. Several entries have no citations whatsoever. I'm afraid this list based on citing alone is very very far from featured standards. Original user appears to have deleted account. Mattximus (talk) 20:46, 2 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- I've notified WP:WikiProject Florida. Hey man im josh (talk) 14:16, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Closing note: This candidate has been delisted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FLC/ar, and leave the {{featured list candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Hey man im josh (talk) 16:04, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The list was delisted by Hey man im josh via FACBot (talk) 00:25, 14 September 2024 (UTC) [2].[reply]
There are significant citation issues here, including one section that's been tagged for citations since 2018. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 06:49, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment. The tagged "historical background" section wasn't in the original promoted FL. Nothing it says looks that controversial, but I think I'd be fine with expecting people to read the main Berlin Wall article first if they need background. I've chopped it down and added a basic ref (although not one that covers some of the minor details, but eh, it's probably in one of the longer works exclusively on the Berlin Wall). That said, as a procedural side note. Tastes differ and there will always be borderline tough calls... but... honestly this seems more like an article than a list anyway? Page size reports ~5,700 prose words ignoring the list itself, which is pretty significant and probably longer than the "main" list. This seems more like an article with an attached list than a list with some prose explanation, so possible it should be demoted on those grounds and moved to Deaths at the Berlin Wall or the like. SnowFire (talk) 10:32, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Remove seeing no other edits. Not convinced the prose / referencing of the larger article is up to FA snuff. Also, the URLs have moved to the memorial website (e.g. https://www.stiftung-berliner-mauer.de/de/gedenkstaette-berliner-mauer/historischer-ort/bernauer-strasse ), so it'd be cool if rather than relying on Wayback copies, they were updated, but more of a nice-to-have. (Also, some parts of the table are questionable IMO... why is the person's birthdate & age relevant? But I'm a "less is more" type.) SnowFire (talk) 03:21, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment Thebiguglyalien, did you notify the relevant editors and WikiProjects? If so, please add that to the nomination. If not, please do so. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 17:08, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- @Thebiguglyalien, did you happen to notify any WikiProjects about this? If not, we should do so before moving forward with delisting. Hey man im josh (talk) 17:49, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- I did not. I wanted to bring attention to this, I'm not particularly sure how you guys like to go about it. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 18:57, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Thebiguglyalien: I've notified WP Germany and MILHIST. In the future, this can be done with Template:FLRCMessage. I'll be giving this a bit more time since no wiki projects were notified, and I hadn't actually responded to you (sorry about that). Hey man im josh (talk) 16:28, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- I did not. I wanted to bring attention to this, I'm not particularly sure how you guys like to go about it. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 18:57, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- @Thebiguglyalien, did you happen to notify any WikiProjects about this? If not, we should do so before moving forward with delisting. Hey man im josh (talk) 17:49, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment I agree with SnowFire that this probably shouldn't be considered a list. This is a 5,600 word article complemented by a list. The redirect Deaths at the Berlin Wall seems far more appropriate. Considering the extent of the prose in the article it's very surprising that there are still citations in the lede. I have not read through this article in detail because with only a brief skim I've added twelve cn tags. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 16:57, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Would we consider reverting the article back to its FLC state (or a similar revision) and splitting much of its newer prose content to a new article? "Deaths at the Berlin Wall", suggested above, seems appropriate. Ed [talk] [OMT] 17:18, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- If this is trying to be an article rather than a list, I'd like to see some context/comparison with other causes of border deaths—for example, the Berlin Wall is often compared to the Mediterranean in terms of border deaths. (t · c) buidhe 14:09, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- By all means @Pickersgill-Cunliffe, The ed17, and Buidhe, if you want to split the article and take it in another direction, or you believe it's not necessarily suited to be a list, we can move forward with a split or delisting (if concerns go unaddressed). Hey man im josh (talk) 14:11, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- I have no skin in this game, but my question there was intended to provide a path where this would maintain FL status without losing the potentially useful content that's been added over the years. :-) Ed [talk] [OMT] 15:39, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Closing note: This candidate has been delisted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FLC/ar, and leave the {{featured list candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Hey man im josh (talk) 19:33, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The list was delisted by Hey man im josh via FACBot (talk) 00:25, 6 September 2024 (UTC) [3].[reply]
- Notified: WP Cricket, WP IPL, Vensatry & Sahara4u (both involved in FL promotion comments), Razr Nation (promoted this to FL in 2013). Note, the nominator of this to FL is indef blocked, so not notified them.
I am nominating this for featured list removal because it fails many of the Wikipedia:Featured list criteria, particularly criteria 1, 2 and 3. The lead text has not been significantly updated since it became a FL in 2013, apart from the addition of mostly unsourced text that also includes random stats and trivia. In addition, the lead and table list captains by titles won, but the main stats source [4] does not have the titles mentioned. In the table, apart from the titles being unsourced, the use of unexplained blue background text, I presume to list current IPL captains as of 2024, violates MOS:COLOUR as it is the sole way of identifying these. It is also not needed, but if colour is kept, it needs to be added to the key section and also use a symbol as per the MOS. Sourcing of this article is also pretty weak in general, since most of the lead text is sourced just to the database stats table. All in all, nowhere near the current FL criteria. Joseph2302 (talk) 11:02, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Support for removal. I noticed that most of the information is unsourced and needed to be updated with reliable and independent sources. If It get improved in due date than at that time, I will change my comment. Best Regards! Fade258 (talk) 13:44, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- @Joseph2302, @Fade258, I've realized now that the list has been updated by @Magentic Manifestations (who I wish would have commented as such here). Please let me know if your concerns have been addressed or you'd still like the article to be delisted. Hey man im josh (talk) 17:48, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- @Joseph2302, @Fade258: Could you state whether @Magentic Manifestations has addressed all of your concerns? Hey man im josh (talk) 16:16, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks for the ping. There is only 1072 characters of prose text (excluding text in tables), this is insufficient for a featured list, as it still fails points 2+3 of the Wikipedia:Featured list criteria. So I still support removal of FL status. Joseph2302 (talk) 16:39, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- @Magentic Manifestations: Do you have any interest in continuing to improve this list's lead any further? It's fine if not, just trying to wrap up some old nominations. Hey man im josh (talk) 16:16, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- First of all, Sorry for the late reply due to busy in my real life. Thank you for the ping Josh. I feel that my concerns was addressed but there isn't sufficient prose for maintaining it at featured list. Best Regards! Fade258 (talk) 14:08, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Hey @Magentic Manifestations, hate to be a bother, but wanted to ping one last time just in case you're still interested in this article and stopping it from being demoted. Hey man im josh (talk) 14:13, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- First of all, Sorry for the late reply due to busy in my real life. Thank you for the ping Josh. I feel that my concerns was addressed but there isn't sufficient prose for maintaining it at featured list. Best Regards! Fade258 (talk) 14:08, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- @Magentic Manifestations: Do you have any interest in continuing to improve this list's lead any further? It's fine if not, just trying to wrap up some old nominations. Hey man im josh (talk) 16:16, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks for the ping. There is only 1072 characters of prose text (excluding text in tables), this is insufficient for a featured list, as it still fails points 2+3 of the Wikipedia:Featured list criteria. So I still support removal of FL status. Joseph2302 (talk) 16:39, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- @Joseph2302, @Fade258: Could you state whether @Magentic Manifestations has addressed all of your concerns? Hey man im josh (talk) 16:16, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Concerns have gone unaddressed for a while now and there's been more than adequate time to address them. As such, delisting. Hey man im josh (talk)
- Closing note: This candidate has been delisted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FLC/ar, and leave the {{featured list candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Hey man im josh (talk) 16:03, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.