Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Failed log/August 2007
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page. No further edits should be made to this page. The closing editor's comments were: 13 days, 1 support, 0 oppose. Many comments remained unanswered. Fail. Crzycheetah 18:13, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
Well, much like the other county lists that have reached featured status, I feel that this one shows a comprehensive view of all 88 of Ohio's counties. It passes the criteria as far as I can see, and looks just as good as the others. Support as nom. Wizardman 00:41, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
It's been 10 days, but I current am addressing the comments. Wizardman 18:30, 20 August 2007 (UTC)- On second thought, this can be failed for now, since it's become apparent that I still have a lot of work to do on this yet. I won't get it done in a couple days, it'll take a while. Wizardman 19:31, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
- Comment List looks great, and you've done a yeoman's job getting it together. Congrats. Only comment: the first paragraph of the lead needs to be referenced. It has statements about Ohio law and elected county officials that don't appear in any of the current references. Geraldk 02:04, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
- Good point, I'll get on that. Wizardman 02:13, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
- Comments
- How many counties Ohio had at the time it was admitted into the Union?
- I don't understand what Indian Lands means in the Wood County row. There needs to be a note next to it explaining that.
Done - The table states that Wayne County originated in 1796 from Columbiana County, but Columbiana County was formed in 1803. It doesn't add up.
I beleve it's overlinking when the county names in the "origin" column have blue links. Done- People's names in the "etymology" column need dates(birth-death).
--Crzycheetah 07:48, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
- The first question I'll check and make a note of in the lead. I'll also check what Indian Lands mean, I'm thinking it was territory aquired from them, but I'll see. Wayne County's giving me many different origin dates; the site that had the origins had it at 1808, which is wrong. As for what county it originated from in this case I'll try and find something. The fourth one I guess you're right on, I could take care of that if necessary. The fifth one I'll also put on the to-do list. (I'm gonan need to create a to-do list in my userspace at this rate) Wizardman 20:40, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
- This source may help. It states that Wawyne was formed on August 15, 1796, but I didn't find the origins.--Crzycheetah 21:19, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
- This source implies that Wayne was an original county. I'd like you to use this as a main reference for the origins column instead of that rootsweb site. I noticed there were several differencies for other counties, too. It's better to have a book as a reference than a website anyway, right?--Crzycheetah 18:10, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
- Nice find. I'll use that. :) Wizardman 18:46, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
- This source implies that Wayne was an original county. I'd like you to use this as a main reference for the origins column instead of that rootsweb site. I noticed there were several differencies for other counties, too. It's better to have a book as a reference than a website anyway, right?--Crzycheetah 18:10, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
- This source may help. It states that Wawyne was formed on August 15, 1796, but I didn't find the origins.--Crzycheetah 21:19, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
- The first question I'll check and make a note of in the lead. I'll also check what Indian Lands mean, I'm thinking it was territory aquired from them, but I'll see. Wayne County's giving me many different origin dates; the site that had the origins had it at 1808, which is wrong. As for what county it originated from in this case I'll try and find something. The fourth one I guess you're right on, I could take care of that if necessary. The fifth one I'll also put on the to-do list. (I'm gonan need to create a to-do list in my userspace at this rate) Wizardman 20:40, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
- Commment Given that multiple wikilinks are frowned upon, I feel the county names in the "Origin" column shoudl be de-wikilinked. Also, where are the multiple countys in a cell, then I suggest something like "Wayne, Richland, Huron and Lorain counties". Tompw (talk) (review) 21:21, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
- I can delink the counties if necessary. I was a bit iffy about doing the counties in that format though just because it might mess up the table on some computers. If that's not really an issue though then I'll take care of that. Wizardman 14:36, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
Object. Dates need to be linked. Rmhermen 05:31, 13 August 2007 (UTC)Rmhermen 02:00, 14 August 2007 (UTC)- Done T Rex | talk 08:10, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
- Comment According to this site (not sure if it qualifies as a reliable source or not), Wayne County was created in 1796, disorganized, and later recreated from part of Columbiana County. Therefore, it's correct but rather confusing and needing of explanation. Nyttend 16:34, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
- It still doesn't say that Wayne was created from part of Columbiana County. It said Wayne was created from nc(non-county) area.--Crzycheetah 17:56, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
- I edited Wood and Wayne counties to reflect that they were taken from non-county affiliated territories. s that what you were looking for? Wizardman 18:31, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
- It's better. Now, you need to add a ref saying that. I still suggest you to use this source, it states that Paulding, Van Wert and Williams counties were formed from Indian territories, too.--Crzycheetah 18:55, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
- I edited Wood and Wayne counties to reflect that they were taken from non-county affiliated territories. s that what you were looking for? Wizardman 18:31, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
- It still doesn't say that Wayne was created from part of Columbiana County. It said Wayne was created from nc(non-county) area.--Crzycheetah 17:56, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
- NOTE: I'll take a look at everything and do all that I can this weekend. I didn't forget about the list, just got burned out from it (if you look at my log I've never done this many edits on one thing before) Wizardman 02:52, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
- Comment further to my comment above , it would be nice to see a bit more info in the lead. In particular, it states that counties only have the powers specifcally allocated by the Ohio General Assembly, but what are these powers? Also, an explantion of the phrase "Refactored from non-county territory" and Wayne County's tortured history would be benefical. Tompw (talk) (review) 19:14, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
- I'll expand the lead a bit and explain some of the more confusing sections. I'm trying to find some more information on what the heck is Wayne County's hstory, but I'm finding nothing. I still have to find out if Wayne County existed upon statehood yet. Wizardman 21:31, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
the page is modeled after the recently promoted Hart Memorial Trophy and is fully sourced.
In what may prove to be a controversial move, I have decided to only list the actual winners of the trophy and not the goal scoring leaders prior to the trophies creation, although the Art Ross Trophy (awarded to the NHL points leader) lists the pre-trophy "winners". My reasoning is that in the case of the Art Ross, both NHL.com and Legendsofhockey.net list all of the points scoring leaders in the history of the NHL. However, neither source lists every goal scoring leader in the case of the Richard Trophy. A version of what the list looked like WITH every goal scoring leader can be found here.
Any concerns that are brought up will be addressed. -- Scorpion0422 03:30, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
- Can't this wait some time? We have 6 almost identical noms right now! It gets tedious very quickly. Circeus 04:00, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
- I'm trying to get them done as quickly as I can before I go back to University. I'll hold off nominating any more until others finish up. -- Scorpion0422 04:04, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
- Withdrawn Will resubmit in a week. -- Scorpion0422 04:16, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page. No further edits should be made to this page. The closing editor's comments were: Withdrawn by nominator. Circeus 02:29, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
Nominating article, based on its comprehensiveness in covering its topic. Drewcifer3000 08:42, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
- oppose
- Improper focus: It's not a "discography", it's a "list of works who X contributed to"
- Formatting is thoroughly improper, and doesn't even remotely attempts to followother discographies.
- Lead is far too short. Done (Drewcifer3000 18:45, 19 August 2007 (UTC))
- Overinclusiveness makes the table of content useless.
- Circeus 17:48, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
- Thanks for the review Circeus. Hopefully I can address your concerns.
- I agree somewhat. Although the majority of the entires are musical releases, there are indeed a number of them that aren't. There are a total of 57 musical entries, and 10 non-musical entries (video, zines, writings, etc). Perhaps a move to List of works by Ian Svenonius might be in order, but I'm not sure if a 10/57 ratio really warrants that.
- Is there a MoS for discographies? Or a general consensus on formatting? If there is I'd be happy to follow it. I actually based the formatting of the article on Butthole Surfers discography, so it's not something I made up out of the blue. And the formatting of many discographies, namely the ones already featured, emphasize sales and chart positions, which is irrelevant to this article.
- Agreed. I'll work on expanding it.
- I'd be happy to remove the ToC if that's a problem, but the article's inclusiveness almost requires it, I think.Drewcifer3000 17:05, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
- "I'm not sure if a 10/57 ratio really warrants that." No, the problem is all those band sections should be there to begin with. Wikipedia sorts discographies by group and people separately, for reasons this list demonstrate very well: they get humongous very quickly. See Gwen Stephani discography. It explicitly doesn't include stuff from No Doubt discography.
- Well, you might want to look at dozens of discographies, or just the various ones we have featured (Goldfrapp, Gwen Stefani, Hilary Duff, No Doubt, Sophie Ellis-Bextor and Wilco)
- The problem with the TOC is caused by the fact the list is far too inclusive, removing the TOC is never a solution to anything.
- Circeus 18:50, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
OK, I can definitely see your point. Thanks for the review. I guess I'll split the article up into numerous smaller discographies, and hopefully nominate those soon too. In the mean time I'll delist this article. Thanks again. Drewcifer3000 19:17, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page. No further edits should be made to this page. The closing editor's comments were: 17 days, 1 support, 0 oppose. I know that there is no longer any opposition to the page, but there is also no support after 17 days. Fail. Scorpion0422 20:02, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
This is an extensive list of every draft pick made by the National Hockey League's Buffalo Sabres since the team's inception in 1970, including selections in supplemental drafts. Statistics are included for every player who achieved NHL status.Skudrafan1 16:39, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
- Did no one from the 2005 or 2006 drafts play in the 06-07 season? --Golbez 08:19, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
- No one the Sabres chose in those drafts has made the NHL yet. Hockey players often do not ascend to NHL level for several years after being drafted. In fact, the six players from the 2004 draft who have made the NHL all debuted in the 2006-07 season. Skudrafan1 14:38, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
- Interesting. Thanks. You should mention that, since if it confused me it will definitely confuse others. --Golbez 21:57, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
- No one the Sabres chose in those drafts has made the NHL yet. Hockey players often do not ascend to NHL level for several years after being drafted. In fact, the six players from the 2004 draft who have made the NHL all debuted in the 2006-07 season. Skudrafan1 14:38, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
- CommentCould you find any free images of the players? Also, there are too many sections. I'd suggest to rename them to 1970s, 1980s...that way there would be four sections instead.--Crzycheetah 08:24, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
- I can certainly look for free images. As for the sections issue, I'll work on it. Skudrafan1 14:38, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
- I have added a half-dozen photos to the list. Skudrafan1 16:48, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
- I've been thinking about the "too many sections" issue. I think it is important to have each draft in its own section, so that one can easily see who was the first pick in each draft, what late-round selections panned out particularly well, etc. If they were bunched by decade, seeing the results of each draft (the main point of having the article in the first place) would be difficult. Skudrafan1 16:29, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
- I don't know if he meant combine the tables, just combine the sections. --Golbez 21:57, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
- I can certainly look for free images. As for the sections issue, I'll work on it. Skudrafan1 14:38, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
- Comment According to discussions held at WikiProject Ice Hockey, I note a couple things about the article:
- First off, it should be called Buffalo Sabres draft history, to match both other sports, as well as Calgary Flames draft history, which is the template we are using.
- No discussions were held regarding the Supplemental Draft, though I see no problem with including them.
- The major point, however, is that to avoid incredible lengths in some articles, especially for the older, more established clubs (Montreal, et al), the page would only include players who actually made it to the NHL. See the Calgary page for how to accomplish this: the draft history page includes only NHL players, while the link to the individual season article has every player drafted that year, whether they played in the NHL or not. This way, the draft history page isn't cluttered with 7th-rounders who never played after college and don't have articles. Also take a look at my sandbox page for a similar page with the Devils currently under construction (we still have to create several season articles before transferring the draft history over, hence its non-completion).
- I'm not taking anything away from the list; it's a fantastic list and you did a great job with it. It's just that there's a template for how these pages are to be done, and hopefully we can get all 30 NHL teams to get their draft histories to this level. So here's what I'll do: conditional support for now, and then we'll work on creating the season pages and shifting the draftees over so that it looks more like the other draft histories. This way it's still a featured list (because again, you did a great job), and then we can tweak it. Sound like a plan? Anthony Hit me up... 11:03, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
- Thanks for the great comments. The reason I included all the draft picks is because, well, the page is titled Buffalo Sabres draft picks, not Buffalo Sabres draft picks who played in the NHL. It doesn't make sense to me not to include everyone. If the page did not include players who didn't make the NHL, it would not show (among other things) first-round busts (Jiri Dudacek, Artem Kryukov) or invalid claims (Taro Tsujimoto). Those are interesting parts of the Sabres' draft history. Skudrafan1 14:10, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Ice_Hockey/Archive12#Draft picks format for the discussion on the draft history pages; that should explain how the pages should be formatted and the reasoning behind it. Anthony Hit me up... 14:18, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
- Thanks for the link to the discussion, Anthony. I missed it when it originally occurred, and I do not agree with its conclusion about not including non-NHLers. As I mentioned above, it takes away from some of the rich history of Sabres draft choices. In my list of non-NHL-player history above, I neglected to mention that, in 1985, the Sabres drafted Wayne Gretzky's brother, Keith. However, since Keith never played in the NHL, he should not (per the discussion) be included in the "draft history". Anyway, it pained me to do so, but I have removed non-NHL players from the list. Skudrafan1 17:16, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
- I understand your point, but for the sake of article length that was the compromise that was reached. When individual articles are created on each Sabres season, you can include all draft picks, whether they played in the NHL or not (see 1988-89 Calgary Flames season for a guide). Also, as a suggestion, bold the names of players who are currently on the Sabres; this helps readers identify who's still on the team, and who they let get away. Finally, like I said above, I think it should be moved to Buffalo Sabres draft history. Just fix those two minor issues and I'll give a full support. Anthony Hit me up... 18:00, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
- The page has been moved and the appropriate players bolded. Skudrafan1 21:38, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
- I understand your point, but for the sake of article length that was the compromise that was reached. When individual articles are created on each Sabres season, you can include all draft picks, whether they played in the NHL or not (see 1988-89 Calgary Flames season for a guide). Also, as a suggestion, bold the names of players who are currently on the Sabres; this helps readers identify who's still on the team, and who they let get away. Finally, like I said above, I think it should be moved to Buffalo Sabres draft history. Just fix those two minor issues and I'll give a full support. Anthony Hit me up... 18:00, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
- Thanks for the link to the discussion, Anthony. I missed it when it originally occurred, and I do not agree with its conclusion about not including non-NHLers. As I mentioned above, it takes away from some of the rich history of Sabres draft choices. In my list of non-NHL-player history above, I neglected to mention that, in 1985, the Sabres drafted Wayne Gretzky's brother, Keith. However, since Keith never played in the NHL, he should not (per the discussion) be included in the "draft history". Anyway, it pained me to do so, but I have removed non-NHL players from the list. Skudrafan1 17:16, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Ice_Hockey/Archive12#Draft picks format for the discussion on the draft history pages; that should explain how the pages should be formatted and the reasoning behind it. Anthony Hit me up... 14:18, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
- Thanks for the great comments. The reason I included all the draft picks is because, well, the page is titled Buffalo Sabres draft picks, not Buffalo Sabres draft picks who played in the NHL. It doesn't make sense to me not to include everyone. If the page did not include players who didn't make the NHL, it would not show (among other things) first-round busts (Jiri Dudacek, Artem Kryukov) or invalid claims (Taro Tsujimoto). Those are interesting parts of the Sabres' draft history. Skudrafan1 14:10, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
Weak ObjectNeutral Taro Tsujimoto should be included in the list in some form.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 16:50, 3 August 2007 (UTC)- Comment I guess I would like to see a notable non-NHL player section for this list. Any player who has a wikipedia entry could possibly be included. I am not sure what other objective measure to use for inclusion. Maybe having spent the last week in Buffalo beefing up
The French Connection (hockey) for WP:GA status and doing the best I can with 
Gilbert Perreault (a current WP:GAC) and Taro Tsujimoto, make me a little bit partial for Taro. I feel remiss that he is not included in the article. Is there a way that non-NHLers could reasonably be included that would set a good precedent for the league draft lists and possibly for other major sports.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 16:55, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
- See my discussion above, Tony. Several players with Wikipedia articles had to be removed, because the consensus said that only NHL players were to be included on such lists. Perhaps other notable picks could be included in prose form somewhere? Skudrafan1 20:55, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
- O.K. Is there a way to add prose of notable non-NHL draft pics that is no WP:OR? I kind of think Gretzky and Tsujimoto should be in the article some how.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 21:22, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
- See my discussion above, Tony. Several players with Wikipedia articles had to be removed, because the consensus said that only NHL players were to be included on such lists. Perhaps other notable picks could be included in prose form somewhere? Skudrafan1 20:55, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
- Comment I guess I would like to see a notable non-NHL player section for this list. Any player who has a wikipedia entry could possibly be included. I am not sure what other objective measure to use for inclusion. Maybe having spent the last week in Buffalo beefing up
- Similar to Skudrafan1 and TonyTheTiger, I'd like to see a blurb under the year or a footnote somewhere noting these exceptions like Gretzky and Tsujimoto. --maclean 04:04, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
- Comment I think they should all be in one table rarther than sepperated by year. #1 overall picks and hall of famers should be highlighted. Lead is too shot and shouldn't really have anything about the list itself. Notes should be in the form of footnotes. Browns first-round picks should help give you an idea. Also should this list be called "List of Buffalo Sabres draft picks". Buc 08:30, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
- The lead should be expanded, I agree. I will work on that when I get the chance. The page is titled as it is per a consensus reached at WP:HOCKEY. And I vehemently disagree with placing all draftees in a single table; it eliminates the entire purpose of the list, which is a year-by-year listing of draftees. Bunching everyone together would make it confusing. Skudrafan1 00:59, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
- If you add the draft year into the table it wouldn't be confusing. Buc 19:12, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
- The lead should be expanded, I agree. I will work on that when I get the chance. The page is titled as it is per a consensus reached at WP:HOCKEY. And I vehemently disagree with placing all draftees in a single table; it eliminates the entire purpose of the list, which is a year-by-year listing of draftees. Bunching everyone together would make it confusing. Skudrafan1 00:59, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
Weak supportbut echoing the above about Taso Tsujimoto - 'he' needs to be included in some fashion. --Golbez 22:21, 13 August 2007 (UTC)- I agree Tsujimoto (and, possibly even more importantly, Keith Gretzky and Jiri Dudacek) should be included, even if only in prose form. Skudrafan1 00:59, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
- Comment Quickly looking at the NFL draft WP:FLCs at Wikipedia:Featured_lists#Sport_and_games the lists are generally comprehensive. I don't believe they exclude players who never played in the pros. Why don't we keep that strategy here and include all draftees. Thus, all wikipedia bio subjects will be included regardless of professional success and original research regarding who is notable would not be necessary. Some sort of legend feature could quickly demonstrate those who played at the pro level.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 23:28, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
- Comment (addendum) A comprehensive listing would eliminate the need to monitor minor league progress of players to see who has gotten called up to the NHL.
- You know I agree with you on this, Tony. I just need the approval of others before I can re-add them. Skudrafan1 00:59, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
- Responding to Tony, the only featured lists that are draft related are three pages devoted to NFL first-round picks. For starters, a first-round pick is almost virtually guaranteed a spot on an NFL team's roster, because there is no minor league/farm system. Therefore, they're all notable. Secondly, limiting those lists to first-rounders only prevents incredibly long lists filled with no-name 8th rounders. The same principle applies here. Furthermore, the Sabres franchise has only been around since the 1970s. Imagine if we were to create a full and complete draft history for each Original Six team. The pages would be over 200-300 kb apiece. The Wikiproject Ice Hockey group came to a consensus on these pages because we deal with them first & foremost, and it was our opinion that for the sake of length, we would keep the pages ONLY focused on those players that actually made it to the NHL. If you will look at my sandbox page above (which I admittedly haven't worked on in a while), you will see that each draft table links to the article on the draft year, plus that team's season article. Each team's season article, in turn, lists the FULL draft results. This way, it keeps the draft history page uncluttered. In addition, limiting the draft history page to actual NHLers gives an interesting view into a team's ability to draft well. If a draft year contains no players who made it to the bigs, then we know the management did a poor job of selecting viable talent for the long-term success of the team. In short, that's why NHL players and NHL players ONLY should be on the draft page. If you want to include Taro in the prose lead, feel free. But not even as a footnote does he belong in the table, nor Gretzky or Dudacek. Anthony Hit me up... 19:38, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
- Changing to neutral not because I dislike the list, but to echo that it shouldn't be promoted until the list can be made comprehensive. Personally, I completely missed that it was only for players who actually played; I figure draft lists should include everyone who was officially drafted, whether or not they actually played... --Golbez 18:33, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page. No further edits should be made to this page. The closing editor's comments were: 20 days, 4 support, 2 oppose. Many unanswered concerns are left. Fail. Crzycheetah 01:15, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
| Current Opinion | User |
|---|---|
| Support | Circeus |
| Oppose | Rmhermen |
| Support | TonyTheTiger |
| Support | WillMak050389 |
| Support | LaraLove |
Partial self-nom, though most of the grunt work was done by previous editors. A couple questions for reviewers to answer:
- is the lead long enough?
- is it OK to have countries overlinked when using the county/flag template rather than just the flagicon template?
- I don't mind the countries being overlinked as long as the runners aren't underlinked. IMO I shouldn't have to hunt for a link to click, especially lower in the list. --Golbez 13:34, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
- Done Re-linked the runners. What about the states?
- To further justify my remarks - in a list where a large number of people aren't linked, having someone blacklinked because they're already listed earlier makes no sense; I might have no clue they're linked earlier if they're surrounded by people who don't have articles. I don't mind delinking the repeated states. --Golbez 01:28, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
- Image:Gareau.jpg, Image:Boston1979.jpg, and Image:Ronald J. MacDonald.jpg are fair use images but do not have fair use rationale to be used in this article. If you feel they are necessary images for the article, add fair use rationale for this article on their image pages. Without this, I cannot support promoting this list. --WillMak050389 16:05, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
- Done Dropped the problematic images, added one good one from Commons. Geraldk 22:08, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
- I don't mind the countries being overlinked as long as the runners aren't underlinked. IMO I shouldn't have to hunt for a link to click, especially lower in the list. --Golbez 13:34, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
- neutral
- Drop the links from the "year" columns. (unless you can link to an article about that year's marathon)
The lead could certainly be made more useful: Who won the most times? Set the most records? Who were the first winners outside North America? What are the by-country statistics? etc. (although that could be made into a separate section before the listings.)Maybe add a "synopsis" table combining all four categories with only the winner and time?There's an extraneous parenthesis in the 1981 men's wheelchair entry.
- Circeus 17:57, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
- Fixed the last one. --Golbez 21:01, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
- Expanded lead. Let me know if it works. Added table showing number of victories by nationality. I'm not sure I like the idea of a synopsis table, both because it would be very repetitive (adding a lot of length for only a little extra reader convenience) and because such a table would have 70-some years with just a men's winner and blank cells for the other three divisions. But if there's consensus on that, I'll add it. Geraldk 01:17, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
- Good point. Support. Really like the nationalities table. New lead is fine for me. Circeus 21:06, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Oppose: There is something odd about the "course record" notations. If the course wasn't standardized before 1924 (as lead text claims), why are some times indicated as course records? Why after 1924 does Clarence DeMar set course records that are slower than his previous times? Rmhermen 02:40, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
- Good questions. I think the lead makes clear that the BAA recognizes course records for alternate lengths of the race, but I added another sentence to the lead to clarify some of these variances - esp. why DeMar is listed with a 1927 course record that's 15 minutes slower than Johnny Miles' 1926 course record. Geraldk 10:43, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
- Support This is an important and well done list. --TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 04:06, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
- Support All faults I have seen are now fixed. Featured material for me. --WillMak050389 04:14, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
CommentWeak Oppose. I find that putting the state name next to the american flag, while all other countries have their names displayed next to their flags, too US-centric (even if it's a Boston event). It would be better if the "United States" is displayed next to the flag and the state in abbreviation format (eg: United States (MA) or United States,MA). And one more thing. I find it odd that this list is displayed in reverse chronological order. Isn't it common practice to make it the other way round? Anyway great list. CG 19:00, 29 July 2007 (UTC)- Support - However, I would like to comment that I don't agree with the underlinking of states if everything else is going to be consistently linked. I think it would look better to just have it all consistently linked. Otherwise, very good work. Lara♥Love 15:24, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
- Comment - Please add a note in the intro or something to explain what the Military Relay marathon was in 1918. --Golbez 06:39, 2 August 2007 (UTC)