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Flooding in Bahrain
Flooding in Bahrain

Glossary edit

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Headers edit

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Archives edit

April 20 edit

Armed conflicts and attacks


April 19 edit

Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Business and economy

Law and crime

Politics and elections

  • 2024 Indian general election
    • Indians begin voting to elect members to the 18th Lok Sabha. With 968 million people eligible to vote, this election is expected to be the world's largest election. Voting will continue until June in a total of seven phases. (AP)

RD: Bill Tobin (American football) edit

Article: Bill Tobin (American football) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): ESPN
Credits:
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

NFL executive.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 01:08, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wait there is no obvious issue here, but the career section needs some expansion and early life section could use a bit more referencing. PrinceofPunjabTALK 12:52, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Leighton James edit

Article: Leighton James (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC Sport
Credits:
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Former Wales footballer. Lead needs expansionPharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 21:51, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support the article is in a good shape. Only problem is that the last two lines of Club career section needs sourcing. PrinceofPunjabTALK 12:53, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Daniel Dennett edit

Article: Daniel Dennett (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The New York Times
Credits:
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

American philosopher.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 20:31, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support Article looks good to me - went to add it here myself and got edit-conflicted. --Opus 113 (talk) 20:36, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support there is one cn tag but that should not hold this article from getting posted. PrinceofPunjabTALK 12:54, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Francis Omondi Ogolla edit

Article: Francis Omondi Ogolla (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Reuters
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Ainty Painty (talk) 16:20, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose there is one cn tag and the last line of death section is not sourced. It would be better if reactions section is merged with the death one and replace a tweet source with a better one. PrinceofPunjabTALK 12:57, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Ongoing : 2024 United States presidential election edit

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: 2024 United States presidential election (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item nomination (Post)
News source(s): Chinese coverage, British coverage,Indian coverage, African coverage, Qatari coverage
Credits:

Article updated

Alright. There is a large scale interest in this election, not even just in the US but also in European countries and India. Elections have been posted to ongoing before and I believe this would be beneficial to Wikipedia. Lukt64 (talk)

Oppose - Unlike India, the election isn't "ongoing", a campaign that's still going to last more than half a year is. Chaotıċ Enby (talk · contribs) 13:30, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. The general election is already WP:ITNR and I don't see how any other events would be ITN worthy (aside from a theoretical Trump conviction, which wouldn't really be covered by the election article anyway). Estreyeria (talk) 13:44, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - In India, the voting stages have begun. In a UK election, parliament would be dissolved a set time before the election. The US election just isn't 'ongoing' in either of these senses. It's many months away, and the party conferences haven't even happened. The US electoral process is absurdly protracted, but let's not get way ahead of ourselves. GenevieveDEon (talk) 13:49, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose seriously no. There is no argument to support this nomination. _-_Alsor (talk) 15:09, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

2024 Indian general election (ongoing) edit

Article: 2024 Indian general election (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item nomination (Post)
News source(s): CNN, BBC, Al Jazeera, The Times of India, The Guardian
Credits:

Nominator's comments: This is world’s biggest election in the world's most populous country. PrinceofPunjabTALK 06:24, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose we don't generally post elections onto ongoing. Also, there's about 1 election a week, so it's unlikely that there will be significant updates every 1-2 days, which is a requirement for ongoing. The article itself has no prose updates to even say election started. Joseph2302 (talk) 06:58, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Joseph.  — Amakuru (talk) 07:04, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support - We have posted elections into ongoing before - For example we put the 2020 U.S. elections in ongoing, mainly due to the long vote count that took place. India is the most populous country in the world, nearly 1 Billion people are eligible to vote. The election is massively in the news, its organisation itself being notable as this is the largest democratic vote held in human history. Absolutely deserves to be ongoing for the duration of it. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 08:21, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Only problem is that ongoing is massively clogged at the moment. My personal opinion is to take off Myanmar and Sudan, while merging the Red Sea Crisis into a 'Spillover' item. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 08:24, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's not nearly the only problem. This is a contentious topic which will tend to attract campaigners seeking to influence the outcome. DYK embargoes election coverage for 30 days ahead of the poll -- see WP:DYKELECT. Andrew🐉(talk) 08:44, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's DYK, not ITN. Even then, no election candidates are in this item. How would this rule apply here? We've posted many contentious topics that were even more controversial than this PrecariousWorlds (talk) 10:30, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Elections are ongoing in the UK – I'm getting leaflets and canvassing currently. And the US has its presidential election and whatever else. Politics is endlessly ongoing everywhere, it seems. Andrew🐉(talk) 08:38, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Andrew I think it is wrong to compare these elections with UK or US elections. Next United Kingdom general election have no fixed date in sight, we do not know whether the voting will take place next month or the next year. 2024 United States presidential election will take place on November 5th. I put this up for nomination today because official voting have started from today even though the campaign for these have been going on from the start of the year. PrinceofPunjabTALK 09:36, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Voting hasn't begun in the UK yet. India is such a massive and populous country that it takes a month for everyone in the country to vote. Here's an interesting video about it . 1/8th of the world is voting in this election, nuts PrecariousWorlds (talk) 10:32, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    That video is four years old because this protracted process is not new; it was much the same last time. ITN posted the results at the end in the usual way. Andrew🐉(talk) 10:59, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The FIFA World Cup has happened before even more regularly, yet we put it in ongoing. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 12:50, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    FIFA is explicitly stated for ongoing and outcome blurb entries in WP:ITN/R, and it was perhaps by its entry in ITN/R that allowed it to be posted as ongoing despite what could had been a no consensus close in the last discussion. Going by ITN/R, only the election results will be posted. If you have issues with FIFA getting an ongoing entry, it can be discussed on the talk page. – robertsky (talk) 14:56, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    With FIFA, there's ongoing results as matches are played and teams eliminated. So there is "result" news happening every week FIFA is going. With elections, the "result" news is typically when the election is over and reported, so it is normally just a singular blurb. Masem (t) 15:37, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Andrew, that's disingenuous. The current UK election period is for local elections and one single parliamentary by-election. The Indian election is a general election. GenevieveDEon (talk) 13:51, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We have a general election coming too. That has had an article for over four years and it has averaged more than one edit every day throughout that period. It's in the news often and its readership is comparable with the South Korean election that we're currently blurbing. Such politics is ongoing all the time here. It might be nice to live a country which doesn't have party politics. But then there's the weather per our current lead blurb... Andrew🐉(talk) 15:49, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment It should be noted that this is not the election campaign, but the election itself that is taking place over several months, unlike in places like the US. Also, the results progressively coming from each phase of the election mean we might have significant updates every few days. Chaotıċ Enby (talk · contribs) 09:21, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support the world's largest democracy is holding a election that is biggest in the human history and it is regularly getting large number of page views. LiamKorda 10:33, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This isn't what ongoing is for. When the election results are announced, they'll certainly be notable enough for a blurb, but there are unlikely to be a sufficiently high number of updates, as per Joseph. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 00:20, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Putting any election into ongoing is a bad use of it. If we put India's, we clearly have to put the US's because of how important this one is, and that starts a slipperly slope for all election seasons. We will absolutely post the results (assuming the article is good). To add that adding the unknown factors in the 2020 US election after election day into ongoing made sense, since at that point the news cycle was not about campaigning any more but all the legal challenges to the vote. Should the Indian election turn that way after the campaigning is over, leaving a major question of who won, then that might also be worth ongoing. But in the pre-voting period, the bulk of the news is all about campaigns, and that's something we shouldn't give attention to at ITN. --Masem (t) 12:32, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    No, we're not in the pre-voting period. The vote started today, and lasts a whole month. Chaotıċ Enby (talk · contribs) 13:31, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes, it is different to other countries as the voting is over a longer period of time (not one day like most other country elections, and a few days for EU elections). Nevertheless, the article doesn't meet the criteria of WP:ONGOING: In general, articles are not posted to ongoing merely because they are related to events that are still happening. In order to be posted to ongoing, the article needs to be regularly updated with new, pertinent information. There are no recent regular updates on this article at present, and these regular updates would need to be maintained throughout the election period to keep it on ongoing if posted. Joseph2302 (talk) 15:00, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    When will the votes be tallied? During the voting period or after its over? If they aren't being tallied over this month, then this is still in the campaigning phase, and we can wait to post the results. — Masem (t) 15:19, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose A country having general elections in most cases isn't newsworthy unless the country is new to the democratic process, or returning from an undemocractic one (even then, this would have been events separate from the elections). India having month-long elections is a procedural one designed for its circumstances. Is it noteworthy, yes, news worthy? No. However, if there is/are (touch wood) major disruptions to the election process, we can consider them for blurb(s). Also to note that the 2019 elections generated... one nomination. – robertsky (talk) 15:04, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per all above. _-_Alsor (talk) 15:10, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose As per the election schedule section of the article, voting will be taking place with around one week breaks, meaning there will not be enough updates for this to go in ongoing. Gödel2200 (talk) 16:24, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Even though India is the biggest democracy, we only post the results of the election TheAstorPastor (talk) 16:43, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per above. Regardless of the amount of people voting in this election, I don't think we should post anything about it until the winner of the election is announced (unless a major disruption occurs, per above, but we will cross that bridge if we ever come to it). Moncoposig (talk) 21:08, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Israeli retaliation (ongoing) edit

Article: 2024 Iran–Israel conflict (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item nomination (Post)
News source(s): CNN Al Jazeera
Credits:

Article needs updating

Nominator's comments: Still breaking, but MSM is both reporting and mentioning israel and iran. You may remove oil prices, but i just screenshotted it on my phone and is almost 3% up. User:37.252.95.10

  • Support but needs its own separate article when official info is ready. 142.117.133.114 (talk) 02:42, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We should try to wait until we have confirmation what actually happened, beyond reports of explosions. That said, if we're going to have this tit-for-tat conflict here, that's probably where one page summarizing these events as a whole are needed, not individual articles for each attack. (This is a long-standing NOTNEWS problem). Masem (t) 02:54, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Like olympics or other events, could be ongoing. Would need a chronology article. Do you thinking ongoing is better than a bump? There is going to be a counter from iran too. (speculative on my end, i admit, but chronology still adds up since its all inside a week).37.252.95.10 (talk) 02:59, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Assuming we get a decent article covering the 2024 Israeli - Iranian Crisis, I'd probably support this as an ongoing item. -Ad Orientem (talk) 03:32, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
the original article doesn't even consolidate Iranian seizure of the MSC Aries. Clearly they are related.37.252.95.10 (talk) 03:37, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Assuming that the reports are that this was a single strike at a site near an Iranian nuclear facility, this is absolutely better suited for an ongoing item on the conflict than an individual article. — Masem (t) 03:43, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I hear (not substantiated yet) there was a strike on some outpost in Syria and something in Iraq. Probs more reason for ongoing. If anyone wants to create that page.37.252.95.10 (talk) 03:53, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
the newsbox above has this 2024 Iran–Israel conflict. Maybe ill convert this to an ongoing thing.37.252.95.10 (talk) 04:04, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
done.37.252.95.10 (talk) 04:05, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Update the existing blurb about the previous strikes. When that scrolls off, we can consider Ongoing if the tit for tat is continuing. In any case, we need more clarity and confirmation as "Officials are saying there has been no attack...". Andrew🐉(talk) 08:02, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Update and put it in Ongoing when that rolls off. Chaotıċ Enby (talk · contribs) 09:22, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Ongoing—The situation is evolving dramatically by the day, and has two of the most powerful countries in the Middle East at the brink of all-out war. If any conflict merits an Ongoing, it's this one. Kurtis (talk) 10:29, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge with Red Sea into Spillover - Very notable event, but would be best to merge with the Red Sea Crisis item into one 'spillover' of the Hamas War. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 10:55, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • The conflict in the Red Sea is still ongoing as long as it is having an impact on shipping and economic activities. If the ships have started to use the channel normally then the spillover link can be removed. This conflict is only more notable than the Yemen conflict because of the disruption to shipping.
    Shironese (talk) 14:14, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Waiting until the entire conflict ends to take the item off is an arbitrary metric, conflicts often last for decades without any major events. Best to merge PrecariousWorlds (talk) 18:42, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The events of this conflict can be adequately covered in ongoing by either the Spillover of the Israel-Hamas war article, or the Timeline of the Israel–Hamas war (12 January 2024 – present) article, one if which (preferably the latter, IMO) seems to have consensus to replace the Red Sea crisis item in ongoing with. Gödel2200 (talk) 16:35, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support on notability, if we're going to post it then let's post it independently, it is not a part of red sea crisis or any other ongoing news, it's a separate event with loose connection to other ongoing wars. 3000MAX (talk) 17:50, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - both sides have said it's over. The pundits seem to agree. That seems to be the opposite of ongoing to me. And is the final volley of 3 missiles even notable? If it ever happened - Iran is saying it didn't even happen! How many different countries has Iran fired missiles at recently ... Iraq, Pakistan, Syria, Isreal ... did I miss any? Nfitz (talk) 23:00, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    That's true. If there's any further engagement between the two countries then we can re-review, but the situation seems to have cooled down PrecariousWorlds (talk) 08:19, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

April 18 edit

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Sports


RD: Mandisa edit

Article: Mandisa (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Fox News
Credits:
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

American gospel and contemporary Christian recording artist.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 20:28, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose there are several paragraphs ending without a reference, multiple cn tags and the Awards section is unsourced. PrinceofPunjabTALK 13:00, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Dickey Betts edit

Article: Dickey Betts (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Variety
Credits:
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Guitarist for The Allman Brothers Band. 240F:7A:6253:1:A1DE:A47F:63DC:BD77 (talk) 16:12, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose there is an orange tag and several cn tags. PrinceofPunjabTALK 17:18, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2024 Croatian parliamentary election edit

Article: 2024 Croatian parliamentary election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The HDZ-led coalition wins a plurality of votes in the parliamentary election in Croatia but fall well short of a parliamentary majority. (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: As always with these elections it'll be now coalition negotiation time, but the main news is HDZ won but maybe not as by much as they would like. A slightly bigger aftermath and commentary on the results would be nice, but it's not a bad article at all. Abcmaxx (talk) 08:59, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support as it is under ITN/R LuxembourgBoy42 (talk) 12:47, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose There is virtually no prose in the "results" and "aftermath" sections. Chaotıċ Enby (talk · contribs) 13:33, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

April 17 edit

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology

Sports


Ichthyotitan edit

Article: Ichthyotitan (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Ichthyotitan, the largest marine reptile ever known, is formally described. (Post)
Alternative blurb: Ichthyotitan, the largest marine reptile ever known, measuring around 25 metres (82 ft) long, is formally described.
Alternative blurb II: Ichthyotitan, possibly the largest marine reptile ever known at around 25 metres (82 ft) long, is formally described.
News source(s): Discovery article The Guardian CNN
Credits:

Article updated

What about a scientific discovery, to change a bit from the wars, politics and disasters? A new species of ichthyosaur of absolutely gigantic proportions, nearly as big as a blue whale and possibly still growing at the time of death. Chaotıċ Enby (talk · contribs) 08:12, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support – Hell yeah, back to our encyclopedia roots. However, there is a lot of insecurity about whether or not it actually would be the longest ever. I don't think we can make such a certain claim in our lede. The article could use some expansion too I think. ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 08:27, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Down to help with the expansion part! Just added an altblurb for the "possibly" thing. Chaotıċ Enby (talk · contribs) 08:32, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose 1. Paleontology is a science where facts (especially animal size) are changing all the time with new discoveries and new analysis from other researcher. 2. It's only partial skeleton (heck, there is only jawbones), scientist speculate all the time so it's not really newsworthy Afif Brika1 (talk) 10:48, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    While the size was given with a margin of error, it's not fair to say that it is only speculation—all of science changes in light of new evidence, that doesn't mean we shouldn't have scientific news on ITN. The bones found are very much larger than those of Shastasaurus sikanniensis, its cousin and predecessor as record-holder. Plus, the news is the discovery (being formally published), not just scientists making a new length estimate. Chaotıċ Enby (talk · contribs) 11:05, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I agree with Chaotic Enby. This is more than just a theory or hypothesis, this a scientific discovery backed by evidence. Unless someone proves otherwise, then these are the current set of facts. The earth was verifiably flat until it was proven it definitely was not and the sun revolved round it, until it was proven it was the other way round etc. Abcmaxx (talk) 08:15, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Sue Chew edit

Article: Sue Chew (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://idahocapitalsun.com/2024/04/18/longest-serving-democrat-in-idaho-legislature-dies-from-pancreatic-cancer/
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

American politician, Member of the Idaho House of Representatives. 65.94.213.53 (talk) 03:53, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose there is no information about her political career and otherwise have very little prose. PrinceofPunjabTALK 13:01, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Austin Murphy edit

Article: Austin Murphy (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Observer-Reporter
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Former U.S. representative from Pennsylvania. The article needs work but the linked news article reporting his death has a lot of details which can be added. Curbon7 (talk) 22:14, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose Article needs some ref work and there's little information about his political career, especially his tenure his congress (besides the extensive info about scandals). Nothing about committee assigns or anything other besides his scandals are mentioned. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 22:58, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Persian Gulf floods edit

Article: 2024 Persian Gulf floods (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Floods in the Gulf states killed 18 people in Oman, while the United Arab Emirates experienced its heaviest rainfall in 75 years. (Post)
Alternative blurb: Flooding in the Gulf states leaves 20 people dead.
News source(s): NY Times, Al Jazeera, Reuters, The Guardian, Khaleej Times, BBC,
Credits:

Ainty Painty (talk) 07:32, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support The event is notable and the article seems to be of sufficiently good quality and sourcing. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 09:12, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support in principle. 'Heavy rainfall in the Gulf states' had been an excellent example of an oxymoron before this happened.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 09:20, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. 10 inches of rain poured in 24 hours in parts of the UAE, highest since Emirati climate records began in 1949! Unprecedented in a normally arid part of the world. Droodkin (talk) 10:28, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support in principle but the article is currently a bit small and needs to be expanded. PrinceofPunjabTALK 10:35, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support in principle, oppose on quality seeding has already been dismissed as the cause, this was just a very unusual storm pattern that caused flooding. The BG section of the article doesn't mention the weather system at all and focuses too much on the seeding part. Masem (t) 15:07, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support on notability, unique meteorological event with a major impact. Chaotıċ Enby (talk · contribs) 17:16, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support on notability Abo Yemen 18:06, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support a rare and notable weather event --Μιχαήλ Δεληγιάννης (talk) 22:54, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support on notability, oppose on quality some places got 2-3 times their annual rainfall in a matter of hours, and the 2nd largest airport in the world was closed. However, article is orange tagged, which needs fixing. Joseph2302 (talk) 07:44, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Article looks quite a bit better now, so changing vote to support. Joseph2302 (talk) 18:52, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Article still fails to explain the fundamental weather system that caused the rainfall and focuses too much if seeding and long term climate change. Our weather disaster articles nearly always dip into details about the weather systems that lead to these disasters. Masem (t) 18:56, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted Stephen 02:00, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Blurb is wrong, there have been floodings in yemen too (which is not a gulf state) and a person died there. Maybe change it to the statesof Arabian peninsula or something close to that Abo Yemen 08:24, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Iran is not in the Arabian peninsula though, and the floods do not cover the whole Middle East either. Abcmaxx (talk) 14:44, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Arabian Peninsula != Middle east
    Just change it to "the states of the Arabian Peninsula and Iran" Abo Yemen 15:03, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Stephen: The blurb is incorrect. Currently, the blurb states “Flooding in the Arab Gulf states leaves at least twenty-four people dead.” This is factually incorrect as Iran has had eight casualties and is not one of the Arab states of the Persian Gulf. The blurb should instead state “Flooding in the Persian Gulf leaves at least thirty-two people dead.” --Bijanii (talk) 23:08, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Chernihiv missile attack edit

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: April 2024 Chernihiv missile strike (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A missile attack kills 17 people in Chernihiv, Ukraine, while more than 60 people are injured. (Post)
News source(s): BBC Al Jazeera Reuters The Guardian Washington Post ABC News Kyiv Independent NY Times
Credits:
NYMan6 (talk) 15:48, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

April 16 edit

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Politics and elections

Science and technology

Sports


RD: A. T. Ariyaratne edit

Article: A. T. Ariyaratne (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Hiru News
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Sri Lankan activist, the legendary founder of the Sarvodaya Movement. Titanciwikitalk/contrib 07:21, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose the Ariyaratne's Buddhist Ideas section have several unsourced statements and is using just one sources numerous times. Same with Buddhist Economics section. PrinceofPunjabTALK 10:32, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Palitha Thewarapperuma edit

Article: Palitha Thewarapperuma (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Ada Derana
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Sri Lankan politician, former Deputy Minister of Social Empowerment. Titanciwikitalk/contrib 07:17, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support there is no obvious issue with the article. PrinceofPunjabTALK 10:34, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Bob Graham edit

Article: Bob Graham (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Tallahassee Democrat
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

A titan of Florida politics. Article is almost there, a few spots need citations. Curbon7 (talk) 03:04, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You beat me to the nomination! Will try to iron out citations today or tomorrow. ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 04:21, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Almost ready there are just 2-3 cn tags that needs to be solved. PrinceofPunjabTALK 10:29, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Should be good now I've fixed the 2 CN tags and have added more REFs to previously unsourced statements. Article should be ready for ITN/C. RIP to the GOAT of NCT '90s/'00s VP selections. Cheers, atque supra! Fakescientist8000 13:31, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - looks good to go now mike_gigs talkcontribs 17:10, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Looks good. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 06:16, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted — Ingenuity (talk • contribs) 23:12, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Carl Erskine edit

Article: Carl Erskine (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [3]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

– Muboshgu (talk) 16:41, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support I am not seeing any issues with the article. PrinceofPunjabTALK 18:52, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Børsen fire edit

Article: Børsen (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The historic Børsen (pictured) in Copenhagen, Denmark, catches fire. (Post)
Alternative blurb: Børsen, a historic building in Copenhagen, Denmark, catches fire.
Alternative blurb II: ​ The historic Børsen (pictured) in Copenhagen, Denmark, catches fire.
News source(s): CNN BBC Guardian
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Developing story. Article is not sufficiently updated yet, but Scandinavia just got its own Notre-Dame fire. Cart (talk) 09:21, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wait for more updates and information. Chaotıċ Enby (talk · contribs) 09:24, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is not comparable to the fire in the Notre-Dame de Paris. The Notre Dame is a UNESCO heritage site, Børsen is not. So ITNR-wothiness in this case is questionable. _-_Alsor (talk) 10:47, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We've had plenty of fires on ITN of buildings that were not on the UNESCO heritage list, the significance for ITN is interest and the coverage in media, and this is front page stuff on what we usually refer to as significant media. Cart (talk) 11:03, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support in principle, oppose at size of update - CNN is reporting that at least half the building has been consumed by the fire and that they're still historical art and furniture that is trying to be rescued from this. But one paragraph is far too small to cover whats happening and it may be a few more hours before we can suitably expand. --Masem (t) 11:58, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support when properly updated. I don't like the word "ancient" in the proposed blurb. Børsen was "only" 400 years old, "ancient" is usually reserved for stuff like the Roman Empire. "Historical" would be a better word. Thue (talk) 12:42, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oops! Good point. Fixed. Cart (talk) 13:13, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support when the article is ready. PrinceofPunjabTALK 13:00, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support when ready. Well known famous building. Nfitz (talk) 13:50, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Article has been sufficiently updated. Support on notability, Oppose on quality This is an historic building which was previously the headquarters of the Danish Chamber of Commerce, and the fire seems to have caused significant damage. However, the article has two cn's, and the paragraph the fire is not ready yet. It doesn't actually say if the fire has ended, and doesn't indicate the full extent of the damage. Gödel2200 (talk) 13:54, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    It's been updated now and I've found refs for the cn's. Please take another look. Cart (talk) 15:54, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support seems fine now. Wait until there's enough information for a proper expansion of the article. Estreyeria (talk) 14:52, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Not seeing any significant problems and it's in the news. Andrew🐉(talk) 15:13, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support when ready. LiamKorda 15:25, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  •   Comment: There are photos of the building on fire, but they aren't so great blurb-wise since they don't include the significant spire, all the scaffolding hides the building and will only present us with an ad for Batman. I think the best alternative is the suggested pre-fire photo. Cart (talk) 16:28, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support as nominator. The article is now sufficiently fixed and as up to date with the fire as we can get it at the moment. There will be more in days to come, but I think it's ok to post. Cart (talk) 17:14, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The inevitable 2024 Børsen fire has just been created, but it's so far just text copied from the original Børsen. So I don't think the link in the proposed blurbs should be updated. For now, I think it's good to have the background and the new article will fill its purpose later. Cart (talk) 18:04, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
How about using File:Brand i Børsen, set fra Ved Stranden.jpg instead of the image suggested here. "The historic Børsen in Copenhagen, Denmark, catches fire. (fire pictured)" Sebbog13 (talk) 19:46, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It now has an article so link to 2024 Børsen fire. Sebbog13 (talk) 19:55, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That just shows smoke and could be anything on fire. Secretlondon (talk) 20:05, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The new article is mainly a copy of the text in the original, and will be more useful as the aftermath develops. Right now, the history behind the building will help readers. And as of now, the blurb is posted without photo. I think that's a good call since the Iran-Israel conflict is way more serious than this fire. Cart (talk) 20:08, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If the new article is expanded further, we can switch it. I am going to swap to the "not on fire" photo now. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:12, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The Batman ad is more visible than the building... Chaotıċ Enby (talk · contribs) 20:45, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
After research, it appears that Denmark's freedom of panorama is limited to non-commercial uses for artistic works in public places (Article 24(2)), so this is a copyright violation and should, at best, be hosted locally under fair use be marked as a de minimis use, and very much not go on the main page. Chaotıċ Enby (talk · contribs) 20:52, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Which picture are you talking about? The one that we're currently using showing the building in question is fine as the building is 400 years old. Andrew🐉(talk) 21:57, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The photo discussed is File:Brand i Børsen, set fra Ved Stranden.jpg with a very visible Batman ad. Cart (talk) 22:03, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Was your 'research' to read the first sentence of Danish copyright law? The second sentence on article 24(3) states that "buildings can be freely reproduced in pictorial form." Stephen 23:54, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
But I'm not talking about the building, I'm talking about the advertisement on the building. Which, on File:Brand i Børsen, set fra Ved Stranden.jpg, is the giant Batman promotional poster, and falls very much under 24(2) and not 24(3). Chaotıċ Enby (talk · contribs) 00:49, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Surely a crop of the photo could be made, cropping out all of the ad whilst just keeping the words "fear nothing". Happily888 (talk) 11:06, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support given the broad coverage. Added alternative blurb 2. Now that there is an article for the fire, I suggest wikilinking to that, and bolding said text.Gust Justice (talk) 22:14, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: I feel like 2024 Børsen fire should be linked in the blurb.  Bait30  Talk 2 me pls? 03:54, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Børsen § 2024 fire seems to have more information than the 2024 Børsen fire spinout (or at least as much).—Bagumba (talk) 07:08, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    There is a parallel discussion about this at WP:ERRORS. Aaron Liu (talk) 16:30, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Closed as mooted by the merging of the article. Aaron Liu (talk) 12:49, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • New images of fire present at Commons:Category:2024_Børsen_fire. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 07:48, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  •   Comment: I've replaced the fire photo in the article with a cropped and perspective-corrected version of the image, where the copyrighted logos are cropped and cloned out. It's avaliable if you want to use it on ITN. Personally, I think people will recognize the "before the fire photo" easier from visits (movies, media, etc.) to Copenhagen, than just smoke and scaffolding. Cart (talk) 13:36, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    There is still the logo in a couple of different places on that banner. One, on the shoe, another is in the lower right corner. Granted, it's significantly more obscure but I don't know if that matter when it comes to copyright law. (IANAL) Kcmastrpc (talk) 14:59, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Those logos are so small, they fall under the de minimis rule and not a problem. I didn't want to clone more things than necessary . Cart (talk) 15:48, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

April 15 edit

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections


RD: Naomi Polani edit

Article: Naomi Polani (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Naomi Polani, veteran performer and director dies at 96 (JPost)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Israeli musical director, theater director, singer, producer, actress and dancer. 65.94.213.53 (talk) 04:01, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose the honors and Personal life sections needs more references. PrinceofPunjabTALK 13:05, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Jerry Savelle edit

Article: Jerry Savelle (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Christian Post
Credits:
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

American televangelist and author. 240F:7A:6253:1:C0E0:EC3C:2013:6568 (talk) 05:30, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose there is an orange tag and 4 cn tags. PrinceofPunjabTALK 10:33, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Whitey Herzog edit

Article: Whitey Herzog (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): USAToday
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Hall of Fame manager.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 17:16, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose there are two orange tags. PrinceofPunjabTALK 18:53, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD/blurb: Josip Manolić edit

Article: Josip Manolić (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  Josip Manolić, the second prime minister of Croatia, dies at the age of 104. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Former prime minister of Croatia, Josip Manolić, dies at the age of 104.
News source(s): Nacional, Jutarnji list Index.
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Josip Manolić was the second and last prime minister of Croatia as the Socialist Republic of Croatia, and “first” prime minister (caretaker) of the independent Croatia. Co-founder of the important Croatian political party Croatian Democratic Union (HDZ) and also Croatian Independent Democrats (HND). First official Speaker of the Chamber of Counties of Croatia. Major political player in Croatia's history. The article is ok, could be more detailed, but has been updated with his death. Seems like a notable figure, so I think it makes a strong RD; mixed about the blurb. Classicwiki (talk) If you reply here, please ping me. 18:41, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

One side note, obviously topics dealing with SFR Yugoslavia and its former constituent republics can be very contentious. Vandalism would be a concern. Classicwiki (talk) If you reply here, please ping me. 18:45, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Classicwiki: If vandalism is a concern, should the page be semi-protected? --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 06:00, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@MtPenguinMonster, not to be too wp:crystalball, but if it gets to the front page via blurb, it would be advised. Doesn't seem like the blurb or the RD are going to make it at the moment. Classicwiki (talk) If you reply here, please ping me. 06:07, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose There's some cn tags in the article, but I feel like these can be fixed. I'll support RD, but I'll oppose a blurb as the article doesn't really mention his legacy/overall impact he had in Croatia. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 18:47, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb as nothing in the article gives a good reason he was a major figure that created an impact or estaish Ed a legacy for the country. Oppose RD on quality issues (cn's, etc) I'll also note much of the article is sourced to a single work (#6 as I type this) which begs again on how important he was in considering a blurb. Masem (t) 19:10, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb He was only PM of an independent Croatia for less than 1 month, I see no reason for this being majorly influential or leaving a legacy. Also Oppose RD at this time as there are too many CN tags on the article. The C of E God Save the King! (talk) 05:59, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb given his short and apparently not very influential tenure as Prime Minister. The article only spends half a paragraph on it, and doesn't even explain what he did during his term. Oppose RD given the 5 citation needed tags still in the article. Chaotıċ Enby (talk · contribs) 09:44, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Blurb He was not the most influential Croatian leader of all time therefore no blurb. PrinceofPunjabTALK 13:02, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Just a note to the nominator, any biographical article on Wikipedia can be featured for RD provided they meet quality guidelines, see WP:ITNRD. Natg 19 (talk) 15:24, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Blurb per above. LiamKorda 15:26, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Though he was prime minister at time of the declaration of independence, he had little role in the declaration itself and the succeeding wars were litigated moreso by President Franjo Tuđman than his prime ministers. Curbon7 (talk) 22:35, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Derek Underwood edit

Article: Derek Underwood (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Guardian, BBC
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

English cricketer, former world number 1 bowler. The C of E God Save the King! (talk) 13:21, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support the article is ready for RD. PrinceofPunjabTALK 13:03, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Willie Limond edit

Article: Willie Limond (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC Sport
Credits:
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Boxer.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 11:53, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose, most of the article is currently unsourced. Suonii180 (talk) 17:09, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose the article has a orange tag and has only 3 sources. PrinceofPunjabTALK 13:04, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

April 14 edit

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Sports


RD: Käthe Sasso edit

Article: Käthe Sasso (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.noen.at/in-ausland/zeitzeugin-widerstandskaempferin-kaethe-sasso-98-verstorben-417808267
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Austrian child resistance activist. 65.94.213.53 (talk) 01:54, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose the article does not have {{Infobox person}} template and very much lacks inline citation. PrinceofPunjabTALK 13:06, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Werner Spitz edit

Article: Werner Spitz (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Detroit Free Press
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Noted forensic pathologist.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 00:12, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support the article is ready for RD. PrinceofPunjabTALK 13:05, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
All taken care of, PFHLai! ~ Tails Wx (🐾, me!) 02:22, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, unsourced issues have been dealt with! Looks good to go. :) ~ Tails Wx (🐾, me!) 02:22, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Thank you for the new footnotes. Posted. --PFHLai (talk) 11:21, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Steve Sloan edit

Article: Steve Sloan (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): ABC News
Credits:
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

American Football coach.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 00:09, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Almost ready Head coaching record section needs sources. PrinceofPunjabTALK 13:06, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@PrinceofPunjab: Added. BeanieFan11 (talk) 18:24, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Ken Holtzman edit

Article: Ken Holtzman (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [4]
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

– Muboshgu (talk) 17:29, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support the article is ready to be posted. PrinceofPunjabTALK 13:07, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Four {cn} tags remaining. Please add more REFs. --PFHLai (talk) 21:54, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    They're all taken care of. – Muboshgu (talk) 04:53, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Thanks for the new footnotes! --PFHLai (talk) 00:04, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted. --PFHLai (talk) 00:04, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Beverly LaHaye edit

Article: Beverly LaHaye (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Washington Post
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Looks alright citationwise. ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 06:24, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2024 Masters Tournament edit

Article: 2024 Masters Tournament (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In golf, Scottie Scheffler (pictured) wins the 2024 Masters Tournament. (Post)
News source(s): ESPN
Credits:

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

The Masters is a recurring event, so I will nom it right away. TheCorriynial (talk) 00:18, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose the article is currently a bit of mess, IMHO. Much of it consists of large lists without clear/consistent citations - particularly the "criteria" section. The whole thing also just strikes me as somewhat oddly formatted. For example, there are italicized subheadings with no content underneath ["Thursday, April 11th"], even though content slightly further down pertains to parts of the tournament that happened on April 11th. With this being said, taking a brief glance at the 2023 Masters page, this does seems to be "par for the course" (pun intended) for past years tournaments as well - so I will defer if others don't think the formatting is an issue. FlipandFlopped 02:26, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per above Ion.want.uu (talk) 03:37, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose the article has very prose and is filled with tables, some of which lack citations. PrinceofPunjabTALK 05:13, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose like a lot of golf articles that get nominated here, it has far too much detail on qualifying system, and very little prose on the actual event (2-3 sentences per round and none on the final round is too little). Joseph2302 (talk) 08:21, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • And the scorecard section also violates MOS:COLOUR, as it's using colours as the only way to display eagles, birdies, bogeys and double bogeys, in violation of the first bullet point of that MOS section. Joseph2302 (talk) 08:50, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Opposethe article is mostly a list of players taking the part in the tournament and some daily leader tables. Not enough prose to justify posting on ITN. --Bcp67 (talk) 17:20, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Jalapeño: I feel as though this was a bit of an early SNOW close. Quite a few opposes were based on the quality of the article, which can (and hopefully will) be fixed. Might have jumped the gun with this one, my friend. Cheers, atque supra! Fakescientist8000 13:34, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've undone the close. The Masters is on ITNR and can still be posted provided the article is updated appropriately. ~~ Jessintime (talk) 14:24, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose There are a total of 3 sentences in the article about the final round and/or Scheffler's win. Nosferattus (talk) 15:31, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ongoing replacement : Red Sea crisis with Spillover of the Israel–Hamas war edit

Articles: Red Sea crisis (talk · history · tag) and Spillover of the Israel–Hamas war (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item removal (Post)
Article updated

Attacks have largely stopped and situation has largely cooled down in the red sea, and the spillover is more general. Probably Israel–Hamas war (spillover) Lukt64 (talk)

  • Neutral, leaning support Although the Red Sea situation has calmed down significantly from the past few months, it's still far from over. Technically, the crisis itself is a result of the spillover from the war, and as the war is starting to drag in other parties other than Hamas (mainly Iran), this could be a good nom, especially after the April 13 strikes - marking a clear escalation. TwistedAxe [contact] 23:01, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per Twistedaxe. FlipandFlopped 02:27, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • I once again oppose a stand-alone spillover item in Ongoing on account of the fact that said spillover is intrinsically linked to the war itself. However, I do think that like how we have items such as "War in Sudan (timeline)", perhaps we could do "Israel–Hamas war (spillover)". That I would be favorable to. DarkSide830 (talk) 04:07, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
My bad, didn't read the nomination comment. I'm a support to the above mentioned idea, though my comments on a distinct ongoing item still stand. DarkSide830 (talk) 04:09, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Broader scope, includes both the Red Sea Crisis which has been winding down (though still ongoing) and many other related ongoing events, including but not limited to the recent escalations between Israel and Iran. Target page receives updates any time another significant spillover event occurs. Very good suggestion.  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 05:11, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support - Was initially against this, but having the spillover in brackets next to the item would be a good option, especially as coverage and interest in the Red Sea Crisis has slowed. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 08:26, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - I think it would be better of have something akin to Middle East crisis (Gaza, Red Sea, Iran-Israel) with better wording. I equate the OP to concluding that the Is attack in Russia was a spillover of the Syrian Civil War which seems to come across as pigeonholing. CheetasOnMission (talk) 10:20, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think that we'd jump the gun to give the series of conflicts right now a new term. That's up to future historians, not us. Perhaps in 10 years this will be known as the "Middle Eastern Wars of the 2020s" but for now as per commonname, spillover would work PrecariousWorlds (talk) 11:35, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Someone already suggested the idea of formatting it as "Israel-Hamas War (spillover)", and I think I agree with that idea, as it makes every relevant conflict related to it accessible on ITN without cluttering it via individual listing. If any mentioned conflict leads to something beyond the scope of being spillover, perhaps the formatting/labeling could then be changed, but for now, this should work. - Bucket of sulfuric acid (talk | contribs) 11:59, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support removal The Red Sea Crisis has somewhat winded down, and the article is no longer getting sufficient updates for ongoing, so we can remove it. However, I don't see a reason as of now to replace it will Spillover of the Israel–Hamas war, as that article has nowhere near the amount of updates needed for ongoing. Instead, we should replace with the Timeline of the Israel–Hamas war (12 January 2024 – present) article, which has enough updates, but also seems to cover most of the topics in the scope of the Spillover article. Gödel2200 (talk) 13:02, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Great suggestion. Timeline of the Israel–Hamas war (12 January 2024 – present) lists spillover events too but receives far more updates, so it's a very good choice for a target.  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 17:39, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2023–24 Bundesliga edit

Article: 2023–24 Bundesliga (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Bayer Leverkusen won the Bundesliga for the first time (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In association football, Bayer Leverkusen win the Bundesliga.
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits:
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

RD: Sergio Melnick edit

Article: Sergio Melnick (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): La Tercera
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Bedivere (talk) 04:30, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose The article is just 13 lines long. PrinceofPunjabTALK 05:16, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Article a bit short. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 17:39, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • With only 181 words of prose, this wikibio is too stubby for ITN. Anything useable available from es:Sergio Melnick to help expand it? --PFHLai (talk) 22:02, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @PFHLai Yes, the Spanish Wikipedia article looks good and has several sources. Unfortunately I can't help out with expanding, and it will be probably missed... Bedivere (talk) 03:56, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Oh, well... this nom still has a few more days of eligibility. Maybe someone can expand this wikibio over the weekend based on a new obituary. We shall see... --PFHLai (talk) 23:52, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

April 13 edit

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

Politics and elections


RD: Ron Thompson (actor) edit

Article: Ron Thompson (actor) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Hollywood Reporter
Credits:
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

American actor. 240F:7A:6253:1:C0E0:EC3C:2013:6568 (talk) 05:30, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Theater, film and television sections have no sources. PrinceofPunjabTALK 10:36, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Lorenzo Palomo edit

Article: Lorenzo Palomo (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): ABD de Cordobá
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Spanish conductor and composer who worked in Berlin for 38 years but composed always based on Andalusian roots. The article was an unsourced stub but is better now, and I'm convinced that a composer whose songs were performed by Montserrat Caballé in Carnegie Hall is worth mentioning. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:50, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Faith Ringgold edit

Article: Faith Ringgold (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The New York Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Will need to be updated. Staraction (talk | contribs) 00:19, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support I think the article is ready. PrinceofPunjabTALK 04:03, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support article looks good Lajmmoore (talk) 09:10, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Orange tag at the top needs to be addressed before it's ready, and skimming through the article I can see multiple cn tags. TwistedAxe [contact] 23:04, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support as well-sourced. Works are all cited, orange tag is addressed. One passage needs a citation, but otherwise this looks ready. gobonobo + c 23:24, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment There's four outstanding "citation needed" tags along with a "clarification needed".—Bagumba (talk) 05:07, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • No {cn} tags left. Posted. --PFHLai (talk) 11:20, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Iran retaliation edit

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: 2024 Iranian strikes against Israel (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Following an attack on the Iranian embassy, Iran retaliates against Israel and the Israeli-linked MSC Aries. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In retaliation for an Israeli airstrike on the Iranian embassy in Damascus, Iran conducts missile and drone strikes against Israel.
Alternative blurb II: ​ After an Israeli airstrike on the Iranian embassy in Damascus, Iran strikes back against Ramon Airbase.
News source(s): dronesship
Credits:

Article updated
STILL Ongoing, but someone will create an article or subsection as it is hardly 2 hours old.37.252.94.105 (talk) 20:42, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Does it, though? I see the IDF saying some drones will show up in several hours. Maybe they'll be shot down, like Palestinian missiles. That's how it's supposed to work. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:43, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Very likely, however the ship has already had reactions from katz, the WH and the uk.37.252.94.105 (talk) 20:48, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Just added the ship to the blurb.37.252.94.105 (talk) 20:50, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    If the extent of this is the boarding of a ship, count me out. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:52, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Not cool to title an article after strikes that haven't landed (and I've changed "Israel-linked" to "Portuguese" here for clarity). InedibleHulk (talk) 21:00, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Agreed, titling an article about something that is expected to happen as if it has happened surely violates at least some policies and guidelines. Traumnovelle (talk) 21:03, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Multiple RS are mentioning "israel-linked". bbcftreuters. it is not my added context. Further, the update has the same info on the page.37.252.94.105 (talk) 21:08, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    As I said, it was for clarity, not to accuse you of making things up. Reliable sources also say it's a Portuguese ship and I think that's the part that can't be inferred from the blurb. Anything you add to this blurb will inherently be Israel/Israeli/Iran/Iranian-linked. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:23, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait Until we know what their payload and targets are, and whether they actually strike (before Israel can shoot them down), this is an unclear situation. --Masem (t) 20:50, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait Hasn't actually happened yet, so we need to wait to see if the strikes even occur in the first place. If they strike (or even if they don't hit but just get shot down) then definitely support. Gödel2200 (talk) 20:52, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ship is already in Iranian waters and india has reached out to Iranian diplomatic channels. [5]37.252.94.105 (talk) 20:53, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support when it happens We should theoretically wait, but it's better to have the consensus ready for when it happens. Chaotıċ Enby (talk · contribs) 20:55, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, that was the point in the original comment37.252.94.105 (talk) 21:09, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. Also, hundreds of cruise missiles are underway, and Iran is readying many dozens of ballistic missiles for firing. Apparently, the plan is to time the drones, cruise missiles and ballistic missiles such that they arrive at roughly the same time at the targets in Israel. Count Iblis (talk) 21:18, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait until the results of the impending cruise missile/drone attacks are more clear. Even if they are unsuccessful though, I still support an eventual blurb as even a failed strike of this magnitude is very likely to result in dramatic military escalations in the region. FlipandFlopped 21:28, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait to see what happens. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 21:39, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Sufficiently significant even if the attacks are intercepted. This is, to my understanding, the first direct attack on Israel by a sovereign state since the '73 war. JDiala (talk) 21:45, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait Inclined to support on notability but this news is as breaking as it gets.  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 22:02, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Iran has now attacked and this attack is being televised and shown globally
NYMan6 (talk) 22:03, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Heatrave (talk) 22:07, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wait Once we know the impact on Israel and western response, then 100% Support Roan314 (talk) 22:14, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Support, It's Happening - For the last hour hundreds of Iranian drones and missiles have been flying over Israel. Israel is in a state of emergency, huge media attention, the U.S. is increasing its military readiness, this marks the first time Iran has directly attacked Israeli soil. This is textbook breaking news, and we should post this immediately. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 22:36, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'd also like to draw attention to Iran-Israel relations. Like a lot of 'relations' articles, the article is really poor quality. There is no information on Iran's involvement in the Gaza conflict, plus this event urgently needs to be added PrecariousWorlds (talk) 22:42, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support First attack of Iran on Israel in their proxy war which becomes a direct war. Givibidou (talk) 22:41, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I don't think any of the !votes here are saying that this may be too insignificant to be covered by ongoing, even if all the drones and other missiles laucnhed are intercepted, the attack would still be significant. We should however wait until we actually know what the attack ultimately is, and can update the article appropriaetly for this. --Masem (t) 23:05, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    We know the nature of the attack. Iran, for the first time, launches a massive drone and missile barrage against Israel in retaliation for the embassy airstrike. Let's post this now, and any further information about loss of life, destruction, targets can be added when we have more info. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 23:24, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    No, because the article is not yet of quality until the event actually completes. We are not a news ticker, we can wait until ultimate damage occurs. Masem (t) 23:31, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support "This is the first direct military confrontation between the two countries since the beginning of the Iran–Israel conflict."

Oh shit, it's really happening. Bremps... 23:13, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support: these attacks are real, there are sirens in Jerusalem and there have been missiles seen fired across the Middle East LuxembourgBoy42 (talk) 23:38, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"Blasts heard above Israel after Iran launches drone attack" per Guardian. Post immediately. BilboBeggins (talk) 23:47, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support it's been confirmed and is a major escalation. Banedon (talk) 23:59, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait, does everything have to be posted immediately? Nothing, in terms of impact, is clear at this moment. ITN is not IT Breaking N. ---Sluzzelin talk 00:28, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Iran says the attack is concluded barring an Israel counter-attack. Not saying this doesn't likely change the reason to post this, but we should be considering posting soon now. --Masem (t) 01:02, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    It's saying the whole tit-for-tat has concluded, not the tat. But yeah, that includes the tat. I think it was handled pretty well, all things considered, and don't think anyone's to blame for where shrapnel lands; get well soon, little girl! InedibleHulk (talk) 01:45, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support The attack ended and it is quite important of an escalation. Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 01:45, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Or a conclusion. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:49, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted A rough consensus appears to support posting and the article now appears to be adequate in quality. -Ad Orientem (talk) 02:26, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The article presents this as if it were WW3 with long lists of world leaders including Biden, Macron and Sunak. The reality seems to be that it was a lot of "sound and fury signifying nothing" as the Middle East has been a free fire zone for some time and this seems to be more of the same but with less impact than most. As it's just the latest round in an ongoing conflict, it would be better to have a more general entry such as Spillover of the Israel–Hamas war in Ongoing. Andrew🐉(talk) 07:51, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Andrew Davidson, yes this feels quite similar to the response to the assassination of Soleimani (which in fairness we did post). Curbon7 (talk) 09:44, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    We posted a composite blurb in that case: "After a U.S. airstrike kills Iranian general Qasem Soleimani (pictured), at least 56 people die in a stampede during his burial procession in Kerman, and Iranian forces attack two military bases in Iraq." This is another similar tit for tat. Andrew🐉(talk) 10:10, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: gotta love how wikipedians took 15 days to place this "on the news" section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.244.136.69 (talk) 15:17, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    What? This is the Iranian response from yesterday (that was posted after a few hours once the quality issues were fixed), the earlier Israeli airstrike was already posted when it happened. Chaotıċ Enby (talk · contribs) 16:37, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Look at the time I nominated it ;)37.252.95.10 (talk) 14:46, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Removed) Ongoing removal : Haitian crisis edit

Article: Haitian crisis (2018–present) (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item removal (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian (12 April), Miami Herald (12 April), LA Times (12 April), ...
Article updated

Attacks have largely stopped and situation has largely cooled down. Lukt64 (talk)

  • Support removal This doesn't seem to be something that has near daily widespread coverage (compared to the Gaza or Ukraine conflicts). --Masem (t) 13:34, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose What an odd claim. There is only one functioning hospital in the capital, women are dying in childbirth, schools, universities, hospitals and ships have been looted and burned in the last week, and kidnappings are reported daily (including the entire crew of a container ship). Most international papers (Le Monde, Toronto Star, BBC, Washington Post, etc.) reported on Haiti yesterday, since the Transitional Council was just officially created by decree *yesterday*. Currently, Sudan and Haiti are two of the largest humanitarian crises in the world. See above for three stories in the last day (I did not bother reporting *all* of the dozens of different sources reporting on the transitional council). As J. Charles says the situation today is one of [...] panic. You don’t know what every day is going to bring. You wake up and you hear the gunshots. People are telling me that when they don’t hear the gunfire, that’s when they start to panic and wonder what’s wrong, because it’s become such a constant for them now. Unfortunately, with the vandalism, the burning, and the looting of hospitals, it’s very difficult to get health care. source (12 April 2024)-- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 13:44, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I agree that it's probably too early to remove this, but if the current status quo continues for another few months, as awful as it is, I don't think it should be ongoing. So, Oppose, but we should re-evaluate the item in the next few months PrecariousWorlds (talk) 14:49, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Also. Haiti may be horrible, but gaza, ukraine and sudan is worse. Lukt64 (talk) 15:51, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I mean, it isn't really a competition. Bremps... 17:37, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support removal It has been ongoing for quite a long time now. Long ongoing events such as Yemen's (2014–) and Syria's (2012–) respective civil wars don't have a chance to be on the ITN template. And I agree that the Haitian crisis doesn't seem to have near daily widespread coverage compared to the situations in Ukraine or Gaza. 2604:3D08:9476:BE00:2828:34A4:A394:A86F (talk) 19:33, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support removal Still ongoing (and tragic), but not in the dynamic sense which gives it widespread, daily coverage and makes it ITN-worthy. Yakikaki (talk) 22:19, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support removal per nom; article lacking significant recent updates over the past 7 days. SpencerT•C 22:26, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support removal per nom and above. PrinceofPunjabTALK 04:04, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support removal Article does seem to be having a fair amount of dates listed for the last week or so, but those updates don't seem to be that significant. Gödel2200 (talk) 13:13, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose removal given the recent formation of the Transitional Presidential Council yesterday. The situation is still developing. Chaotıċ Enby (talk · contribs) 22:11, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Removed Stephen 22:19, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Stephen Respectfully, given that a new significant development of the crisis was just nominated as a blurb an hour ago, this might not have been the best moment to close the discussion. Chaotıċ Enby (talk · contribs) 22:33, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Slightly more defensible than the actions on Sudan since there was a 2:1 majority when the story about the Transitional Council first broke. Of course, the situation hadn't and hasn't cooled down, as any brief survey of the news shows. Calls for reparations have come up again and are getting significant coverage, but the main thing remains migrants being deported back, violence in the capital and many towns throughout the country, and of course the dispute over whether or not the TPC folks would be appointed directly (which they were on the 16th). (NYT, BBC, Reuters, The Guardian, etc., etc. Views dropped by 75% overnight, so the early closure helped keep the bots in the dark. :) Imagine if Charles de Gaulle Airport or Heathrow or La Guardia had been shut down for two months, I wonder if that would be in the news at en.wp. (I'll refrain from comparing it to the treatment of the mall closure at Bondi Junction just below...) -- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 23:29, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) 2024 Bondi Junction stabbings edit

Article: 2024 Bondi Junction stabbings (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: A knife attack in Sydney, Australia, leaves seven people dead. (Post)
News source(s): [6]
Credits:

Article updated

Stephen 10:08, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wait death of seven people in a attack is very notable but currently the article is nowhere near ready to be posted. PrinceofPunjabTALK 10:36, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
trivial event by 2024 in the West, just look at the us where things like that happen daily in Chiraq Kasperquickly (talk) 13:58, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't really think it's fair to compare routine gang violence to a mass murder incident targeting random civilians in a place where significant violent acts are extremely rare to begin with. Koiramainen (talk) 15:28, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"The West" isn't a homogenous entity PrecariousWorlds (talk) 18:45, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
except for if it didnt happen in the West, it wouldnt have even gotten nominated with just 7 deaths lol @PrecariousWorlds Kasperquickly (talk) 20:58, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support This is a significant event. Mass casualty crime is extremely rare in Australia. Article quality is now adequate for posting and will improve as more information becomes available via ordinary editing and expansion. -Ad Orientem (talk) 16:21, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - no indication this will have a lasting impact. --RockstoneSend me a message! 17:03, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose unfortunate event but given that there does not appear to be any tied to terrorism or other larger scheme, this is just a domestic crime. --Masem (t) 17:06, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support This is a significant event. – Illegitimate Barrister (talkcontribs), 17:16, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support A rare event to happen in Australia. Aircorn (talk) 17:31, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Fairly high number of casualties and it's a very unusual event for Australia. Koiramainen (talk) 17:40, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support This event is rare, is currently having a major impact on the country of Australia, and is being widely reported upon across the world. It is therefore "in the news"... that's enough. The section is called "in the news" and not "articles about events that Wikipedians speculate will have a lasting impact", for a reason... FlipandFlopped 17:56, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    That logic is used all the time to refuse posting stories that take place in the US. Would we post a stabbing spree if it happened there? Probably not. So no reason we should post this. -- RockstoneSend me a message! 18:19, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    A fair criticism, but for the record, if it was an American stabbing spree which was similarly rare in its nature, involved multiple deaths, and was generating global coverage, I personally would support it. FlipandFlopped 20:28, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    A stabbing spree that kills 6 people in the US would be more unusual than a mass shooting that kills 6 people in the US. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 21:56, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    You have to remember though that this basically never happens in Australia. Mass shootings and mass stabbings are very rare in Australia because of our strict gun laws and our strict knife laws. In America there is a mass shooting every two days. The last mass stabbing in Australia was in 2017. Schestos (talk) 23:25, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The issue is the lasting impact. We are far too quick to create articles on these types of events that ultimately fail NEVENT and only are created because of the burst of coverage. Unless there was a terrorism or similar angle to these attacks, it is unlikely to change Australian laws. — Masem (t) 20:52, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - A sad event, but not of the level of notability of ITN. Would we ever post this if it wasn't in a Western country? Chaotıċ Enby (talk · contribs) 18:21, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Oppose per this logic, unless the motive indicates something that might make it have a wider impact such as terrorism I don't believe it should be posted. Traumnovelle (talk) 20:24, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    If it made international news, yes. Schestos (talk) 23:25, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    How convenient then that 90% of the sources we use to judge the "international-ness" of news are based in the US, UK, Western Europe, or Australia. AryKun (talk) 14:41, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose While this does have a fairly high death count, the article as of now does not indicate this will have a lasting impact. Gödel2200 (talk) 20:32, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support A stabbing spree that kills 6 people (the attacker was killed by a cop) is unusual & notable enough to post. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 21:53, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support: this was a tragic moment and it is currently the top story in Australia. Special editions of Australian news programs are being aired and the stabbing has made international headlines since such an attack is very rare in Australia (this is the first mass stabbing in Australia since 2017).
Schestos (talk) 23:21, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support I'm on the fence, but leaning toward support given the rarity of such an event in Australia and international reaction. I do agree that it may not have a lasting impact (which in itself is a WP:CRYSTALBALL discussion), but while I acknowledge that as an issue in terms of WP:GNG, this is not a deletion discussion, and I don't think that matters for ITN. Melmann 00:57, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    ITN is not a deletion discussion, but our bar should be at least higher than GNG. Chaotıċ Enby (talk · contribs) 01:02, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    If there is an argument as to whether there should even be an article on the event due to lasting impact, then there really should be no question that it's inappropriate for ITN. -- RockstoneSend me a message! 03:36, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Rockstone35 @Chaotic Enby Why? The purpose of ITN as far as I understand is to highlight the news-related content of enwiki. As there is no significant dispute around the veracity of the facts presented in the article, and the article is not currently being considered for deletion, why is ITN the right venue to adjudicate WP:GNG concerns?
    As I said, long term notability of this article is WP:CRYSTALBALL, but Wikipedia is WP:NOTPAPER, and there is no WP:DEADLINE, so why not simply wait to discuss WP:GNG concerns if an when they become evident, which they are not currently. Melmann 10:12, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    While WP:DEADLINE is an essay pertaining to more general cases, there is absolutely a deadline if we're posting news-related items on the main page. That's how news work. And ITN's purpose is to highlight encyclopedic news-related content (we're not a news ticker), so if there's a doubt about the article being encyclopedic, it shouldn't be here. Chaotıċ Enby (talk · contribs) 12:51, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I don’t see why there’d be doubts about the article being encyclopedic. There are plenty of articles about less deadly attacks. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 20:10, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support: This is a notable event with coverage from many international news sources. It is also a rareity in Australia for an event like this to happen (compared to (for example) a shooting in the US or an incident in a non-western country)). HoHo3143 (talk) 04:54, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Rare events are significant and notable, and are likely to have long-term significance. Article is comprehensive and well-written. Happily888 (talk) 07:37, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose because it appears to be a crime with no geopolitical significance. Very sad event, but we routinely don't post news items with this range of casualties. Jehochman Talk 15:09, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment -- I removed the "ready" marking. There are 10 supports and 6 opposes -- hardly a consensus to post. --RockstoneSend me a message! 21:40, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Continued coverage on the event: "Bondi Junction stabbing offender Joel Cauchi diagnosed with schizophrenia at 17", ABC News, 17 April; "Sydney mall attacker may have targeted women, police say, as more details emerge of his six victims", CNN, 16 April; "The Sydney Mall Attack Was Horrifying. It Could Have Been Worse" , Time, 16 April; "Bondi Junction stabbing: French man who confronted attacker with bollard to receive permanent residency, The Guardian, 15 April. 15 of 18 attacked were women,[7] and authorities are investigating whether they were targeted.[8] We should post this as we would apparent targeting of those because of race, religion, sexual orientation, etc. whether or not this is technically called by governments as terrorism.—Bagumba (talk) 05:37, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Marking for decision. 3+ days of discussion should be enough to decide yea or nay.—Bagumba (talk) 05:41, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Worldwide coverage, article looks good and this appears to be an overall uncommon event. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 05:43, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Not a significant enough crime to feature on ITN, in my opinion --TorsodogTalk 11:45, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Continued international coverage today: "Sydney's Bondi Westfield mall reopens for tributes after fatal stabbings", Reuters, 18 April.—Bagumba (talk) 18:43, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support It's a shame we haven't posted this already. Plenty of global news coverage and it's a notable and rare event. Flyingfishee (talk) 21:48, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Request @Admins willing to post ITN:  : Please consider closing this one way or another. Thanks in advance.—Bagumba (talk) 01:41, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted. Anarchyte (talk) 09:14, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Is this still on the front page seven days after the event?! Such twisted priorities... I vote to remove it. -- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 23:38, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Honestly, the fact that it took 7 days to post seems to lean heavily against posting it. But oh well. I'm sure if this happened in a non-western country, we'd totally post it just the same, right? --RockstoneSend me a message! 07:51, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References edit

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