Timurid Banner


Hi, the banner shown on the Timurid page is described as such by the source. If need be I can send scans of the book to show this HetmanTheResearcher (talk) 15:39, 24 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

Hi HetmanTheResearcher, the source describes banners with a variety of cut-outs, but always topped with a tugh and the Islamic crescent. The banner previously shown at Timurid Empire showed a singular, seemingly-randomly-chosen cut-out, without the tugh and the Islamic crescent. It is thus a pretty poor representation of a Timurid banner, seeing as the two things which most defined him as a ruler (his Mongol heritage and his Islamic religion) have been excluded.
There is also the question, to which I don't know the answer, of whether this banner was used only by Timur, in which case it is out of place on a Timurid Empire article, or by his successors too, in which case an argument can be made.~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 16:01, 24 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
Thanks for the reply. The source shows both a tugh and Islamic crescent, but being unaware of their importance in Mongol heraldry I didn't add them. I can add these in to better reflect the Mongol and Islamic aspects of the empire. The red banner shown is described as one of a variety used by Timur, I used it since that is what the accompanying illustration shows.
As for the scope the banner was used, I don't see this as a problem. Almost no banner or flag has been continually used by a country or state since their inception yet this does not prevent symbols from a specific time period being used. Even if the banner was only used during the time of Timur (I don't know either) it still forms an important part of Timurid heraldry that should be added onto the article. HetmanTheResearcher (talk) 17:22, 24 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
It probably should be in the article HetmanTheResearcher, the question is whether it should be in the infobox. An infobox is meant to summarize the entirety of the topic; putting a banner possibly only used for much less than half of a historical state's existence is actively misleading. There have been similar discussions at Talk:Yuan dynasty and Talk:Mongol Empire. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 17:31, 24 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
The infobox should reflect more what scholarly sources say about the topic. If studies of the Timurid Empire focus a majority of their effort on the time of Timur Khan rather than his successors then the banner in Timur's time period should be shown. However I'm not knowledgeable on Timurid historiography so I won't press the matter. Would adding the banner in the "Symbols of the state" subsection, with the changes discussed above, work? HetmanTheResearcher (talk) 18:17, 24 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
Yes, I think they would. Thanks for this productive discussion HetmanTheResearcher. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 18:19, 24 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
Same to you. HetmanTheResearcher (talk) 23:07, 24 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

Iron Maiden article


Hi! I have read your changes to the article and will try to leave descriptions of any changes I have made. Generally, I can agree with your way of argumentation regarding specifying artists who were inspired by Iron Maiden at some stage of their career. Over the years, I have literally read about thousands of cases of this type, among artists representing completely different subgenres of rock and metal. The rest is mentioned by the experts mentioned in the article. In view of all these opinions, the number of examples given seems trivial and completely inadequate to the actual situation. Another issue is what does the term "directly influenced" mean here? How can you determine with absolute certainty which artist is more or less inspired by Irons' work? Yet another matter is that in the case of describing the influence on artists posted on the websites of groups stylistically similar to Maiden, it was enough to specify a number of names, even without detailed links, or to assign to this group artists who in interviews declared their fascination with someone's work and influence. That's why I included examples of many artists representing various subgenres of music, including some of their statements. Is this incorrect? It looks as if slightly different verification standards were applied to Iron Maiden compared to similar artists. THX for your time and patience RALFFPL (talk) 18:50, 24 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

RALFFPL you will find lots of referenes stating that Irpn Maiden's contribution to the genre is massive and incomparable. So cite those! There is no point in having sentences like "Bands A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J, K, L, M, and N were influenced by Iron Maiden." There is no point. You should instead have sentences, cited to independent, third-party reliable souces, that all heavy metal bands were influenced by Iron Maiden. That removes the need for sentences like "Lady Gaga was influenced by Iron Maiden", when all that the source actually says is "I attended an Iron Maiden concert". I and others have previously warned you about ownership of content and similar disruptive editing; let's not have similar here. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 02:09, 25 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
Hi. THX for your reflections. I must admit in the case of a band as Maiden there's no need to cite too many other bands influenced by them. Some of them (not necessarily only metal performers) we could notice as an example. Yes, we can easily find many sources bringing references to Iron Maiden's undisputable contribution to the genre. And there are still some subjects not described in the WIKI article: Maiden's lyrics and the literature and cinematographic inspirations. It's worth writing a little more about the visual aspects of the band's cover illustrations and the shows. Once again - thx for your advice! RALFFPL (talk) 08:33, 25 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
If you can find high-quality reliable sources talking about lyrics and cinematography (i.e. not just random tabloid websites with names like metalcrypt.com), then sure. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 12:52, 25 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
Hi! Once again you've deleted the info from the IM article. No, it's not about attending the concert - SOAD music was influenced by galloping style of Maiden so same as most of rock bands back in the day. It's clearly stated in the source, cited from Tankian's statement. Once again you deleted links because it's about IM you probably ignore it. RALFFPL (talk) 12:40, 7 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
@RALFFPL, please assume good faith and avoid this kind of attack on other users. --ZimZalaBim talk 13:57, 7 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
Apologies RALFFPL, I was looking at the wrong source. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 14:13, 7 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
OK, but (I must admit) some of Your decisions I found misunderstood especially when I tried to check the articles on Wiki dedicated to the aforementioned artists inspired by IM - and there are TONS of info about them being strongly inspired by the Brits or so. Please - if you decide to cancel my work - just discuss the problem. Once again - maybe my words were too heavy. Regards RALFFPL (talk) 19:39, 7 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
We've talked about this above RALFFPL: probably most of rock music, and certainly all of metal, has been influenced in some way by Iron Maiden. We could have a list of thousands of bands, or we could have one sentence saying "thousands of bands were influenced". Wikipedia prefers the second way. Apologies again for my mistake above. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 19:43, 7 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
Sorry, once again - I wouldn't like to make you feel insulted. You are right, sometimes less is more :) RALFFPL (talk) 19:53, 7 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Iron Maiden Nominations and Awards


Hi. I've noticed you deleted some awards from an article, including a large list of Japanese Burrn! Magazine annual Awards. Burrn! Awards are annual fan voting accolades honored with statuettes and many bands on Wiki noticed those as their notable awards (see: Megadeth). Restore this one PLEASE. I don't know why in Maiden article we couldn't notice those ones. Regards RALFFPL (talk) 19:04, 3 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

No, because these annual fan voting accolades are not worthy of inclusion. Anyone can create a magazine and start handing out accolades. If you see them on any other pages, please remove them RALFFPL. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 19:52, 3 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
So same with the American Metal Edge magazine Readers' Choice Awards? It looks like the equivalent of Burrn! Awards, and the creators of WIKI articles dedicated to awards, have been including those especially if we talk about metal bands... RALFFPL (talk) 19:58, 3 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
Sure! I didn't have time to evaluate all the sections individually. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 19:59, 3 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

June music

story · music · places

Today's story is about the TFA, by sadly missed Vami_IV. In my support in 2018, I hoped to do justice to Schloss Köthen next - which I will begin today, finally, promised. Its Bachsaal was pictured to begin the year. For more related thoughts and music, look on my talk for 1 June. - Will nominate a woman for GA. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:21, 1 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Franz Kafka died 100 years ago OTD, hence the story. I uploaded a few pics from the visit of Graham87. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:20, 3 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Best wishes for your health! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:22, 5 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Today I wanted to write a happy song story, on a friend's birthday, but instead we have the word of thunder on top of it (as you know). I found a (July) hook that at least didn't mention the first Sunday after Trinity on the Tuesday after the second ;) - The new lilypond - thanks to DanCherek - is quite impressive. As my 2 Jun story said: Bach was fired up. - Today's Main page is rich in music, also Franz Liszt and a conductor. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:51, 11 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

I know, I promoted both. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 14:17, 11 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
Thank you ;) - For the remaining cantatas, I'LL try to stick to those with a fixed date, St. John's, Visitation, Reformation, Christmas. We will, however, face the problem one more time: on Palm Sunday. I wouldn't want a reminder to music specifically composed for Palm Sunday to appear some days after Easter ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:14, 11 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
Today's story is about an opera performance I watched (actually the dress rehearsal) in 2012 and made a DYK hook in 2017, and my 2012 prediction that we met a great singer was right ;) - if you have more time to read, there's a new GA, Cecelia Hall, and the de:Youth Symphony Orchestra of Ukraine on the German Hauptseite, - both topics were stories before. + new pics. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:12, 14 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
Today is "the day" for James Joyce, also for Bach's fourth chorale cantata (and why does it come before the third?) - the new pics have a mammal I had to look up --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:03, 16 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
Sorry, I have to bother you with hook wording. In Prep7, I read: "... that Daniela Kerck crafted a new ending to Puccini's unfinished opera Turandot for the 2024 Internationale Maifestspiele?" - As a reader, I'd think she is another composer who completed the unfinished composition. I searched for that wording in the nom and couldn't find it. She was both the stage director and the scenic designer, which is rare, and I think should show, as 4meter4 who crafted the hook, worded. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:37, 17 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
A good point, I'll put that back in. In case you are unaware, you will often find that the wording in the nomination differs from that of the final set. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 18:17, 17 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
Thank you. How is this next time, for transparency: you take an approved hook and put that in prep, and perform trimming/rephrasing afterwards, for us not so qualified as detectives to follow what happened? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:33, 17 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
That is precisely what happened. It seems you didn't try to follow. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 21:15, 17 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
I tried, but didn't look deep enough, sorry about assuming the wrong thing. (I looked at a "trim" edit from my watchlist, and saw that it was a different hook, and failed to see that you did the trimming in several steps.) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:24, 17 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
Having looked: it's good now, but would be excellent when it could be clear hat she wasn't a stage director (at times) and a scenic designer (possibly at other times) by profession, but that she performed both functions for this production. I wasn't able, - what I tried in the original hook was rejected. I trust that you are better at it ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:43, 17 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
New pics of food and flowers come with the story of Noye's Fludde (premiered on 18 June), written by Brian Boulton. I nominated Éric Tappy because he died, and it needs support today! I nominated another women for GA in the Women in Green June run, - review welcome, and more noms planned. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:15, 18 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Mentoring GA review process?


Hi! I saw you offer mentorship for GA reviewers and thought I would reach out. I recently reviewed Talk:Carl Friedrich Gauss/GA1 and I wanted to ask for your input on the review: is it too detailed/too shallow? have I overlooked some important aspects? Broc (talk) 14:09, 2 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

That looks like an extremely thorough review Broc. Looking at the article, its tone is immediately suggestive of WP:PUFFERY, and I am glad to see that you have extensively detailed that yourself. I also think that its length of 11,000 words (excluding the selected writings section) is quite large according to WP:TOOBIG, especially for a biography; it's good to see that you have called out e.g. the anecdotes section for being possibly WP:UNDUE (this comes under GA criteria 3b) and 4). All in all, I have strong confidence that you will complete the review to a high standard—and, if you don't think it is being sufficiently improved, do not hesitate to fail the nomination. If you want to ping me again before you end the review, please do so! Best wishes, ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 16:37, 3 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Human history/GA2


Hello, can you show me where you can hat reviews? It seems like you just disregarded and "closed" what I wrote. Bogazicili (talk) 15:00, 7 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Yes, I'm the GA reviewer Bogazicili, so it's my decision what aspects are important enough to warrant passing/failing a nomination. In this case, I felt that your comments, under their own subsection, were unduly prominent in the review compared to their importance, so I hatted them. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 16:15, 7 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
Hatting seemed overly aggressive and dismissive to me. It could have been reformatted. Bogazicili (talk) 16:49, 7 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
I don't know how that's aggressive. Your objection is really not fitting for a GA review, at least not in the way you phrased it: "massive systemic bias" is an enormous charge and really a serious accusation. I'm not removing it from the talk page, where you also placed it, but in the actual review, no. Drmies (talk) 16:51, 7 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
(edit conflict) Hatting was overly aggressive compared to allegations of "massive systemic bias" and "biased coverage" directed at the article's authors? Sure. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 16:57, 7 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
It seems that way to me. No colonial genocide by Europeans are mentioned. So it fits with Wikipedia:Systemic bias Wikipedia tends to show a White Anglo-American perspective on issues due to the preponderance of English-speaking editors from Anglophone countries. By the way when I say systemic bias, it doesn't necessarily mean something on purpose. I don't think anyone is purposefully trying to mislead. Bogazicili (talk) 16:58, 7 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
Well, I don't need to be explained what systemic bias is, but clearly you are pointing at the written article, and the article is written (and reviewed) by actual humans. Plus, it's a general article; it can't mention everything. If you have a proposal for a sentence or two to qualify that European colonization resulted in the deaths of millions of people through all kinds of factors, including slavery, genocide, disease, that's fair, but that's a long way from the claims you made. Drmies (talk) 17:04, 7 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
Lol, sorry, maybe I was a bit dramatic, but it did indeed feel massively biased to me. I mean not even a single sentence on indigenous genocides. Bogazicili (talk) 17:08, 7 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
If you had approached with some courtesy, maybe you would have been received better. Immediately assuming theres a conspiracy by well-meaning volunteers is not a good look. Aza24 (talk) 18:07, 7 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
This is what I meant [1] Bogazicili (talk) 18:10, 7 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Promotion of Shigi Qutuqu

Congratulations, AirshipJungleman29! The article you nominated, Shigi Qutuqu, has been promoted to featured status, recognizing it as one of the best articles on Wikipedia. The nomination discussion has been archived.
This is a rare accomplishment and you should be proud. If you would like, you may nominate it to appear on the Main page as Today's featured article. Keep up the great work! Cheers, Gog the Mild (talk) via FACBot (talk) 00:06, 10 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Puzzle designer


The hook was in the article. “The puzzles for the game will be designed by a group named QuizKnock, as Akira Tago, the puzzle designer for the other Professor Layton games, died in 2016.” SL93 (talk) 17:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

RoySmith SL93 (talk) 17:44, 12 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
Oh, that sort of puzzle designer. I thought that the puzzle designer was an in-game thing, otherwise how would the game "feature" it? Anyway, the hook was withdrawn hours before I even commented, so that was moot. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 17:48, 12 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Quick look at our conversation on my Talk Page


Hello, I'm certain I have probably done a poor job of pinging you over on my page.

Could you please take a look and appraise my response to your feedback?

User talk:Mikepascoe#Michael Harris-Love moved to draftspace

Thank you! Mikepascoe (talk) 22:58, 12 June 2024 (UTC)Reply



Your RfA vote is. As always I think these public votes are a problem. You and I work together, and I try to get along with everyone. We have different thoughts about who would make be a good admin; it is not a reason for us to be enemies or to get pointy. I think someday you may want to be an admin, and I would hope you would try not to make antagonistic votes or belittle editors with different ideas about governance. Lightburst (talk) 17:17, 18 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Thanks Yoda. WP:POINTY refers to "disrupt[ing] Wikipedia to illustrate a point". What disruption was caused to Wikipedia by my !vote? The arguments in your oppose are so weak they convinced me to support—that is the honest truth. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 17:29, 18 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
You were making a point by mocking my vote and rationale. I can tell you it feels disruptive. I reached out to you as a colleague who shares larger project goals with you and I thought it was worth a try to contact you directly. I will try to avoid interaction with you going forward. Lightburst (talk) 18:05, 18 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
Lightburst, I am dismayed (1) that an experienced editor such as yourself feels that simple disagreement is disruptive, when in reality it is the normal state of affairs on Wikipedia, and (2) that you take it personally enough to commit to non-interaction with me. It was not personal in the slightest—for example, I have previously (for the benefit of your privacy alone) requested and obtained oversight deletion of certain comments on-wiki. My !vote was simply commenting on the sheer weakness of your rationale. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 18:54, 18 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
I came here and you continued mocking me by calling me "Yoda" and saying that pointy means something else. How about WP:AVOIDYOU if pointy does not work. We can disagree about who is a good RfA candidate without personalizing and your vote was 100% personal. It only bothered me because I thought I knew you. You literally mocked me and then said, "Who me? But I did nice things for you... it was not personal". I do my best to work with everyone and I try to have a short memory about perceived slights. Lightburst (talk) 19:41, 18 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
(1) "Pointy your RfA vote is" is about the most Yoda phrase it is possible to say; (2) if you want to say that another editor has breached a behavioural guideline, make sure you know what the guideline actually says (this applies to both the above and the RfA); and (3) "per [username]" has always been regarded as a valid !vote because it clearly refers to the person's argument, not their identity. I maintain that no mocking was intended or POINTY disruption made. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 19:57, 18 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
I meant pointy because it is it is WP:POINTY. YMMV

As a rule, editors engaging in "POINTy" behavior are making edits with which they do not actually agree, for the deliberate purpose of drawing attention and provoking opposition in the hopes of making other editors see their "point".

Isn't that what you did? You say no. It is an incongruent vote, like me saying "oppose per a AirshipJungleman29" which is designed for you and others to get the point that your vote is wrongheaded. But if I make that my rationale this point it would be a pointy-cancelling-loop. Lightburst (talk) 20:22, 18 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
No, I am in perfect agreement with the edit I made—I supported the RfA and your comment was the reason why. I made a point with it—that your argument was self-defeating—but its purpose was to support the RfA, not to draw attention or provoke opposition. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 20:41, 18 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
Alrighty then. I will try to stay out of your line of fire. It is always worth trying - especially if it only shows another editor that there is a real person at the other end of a username. Lightburst (talk) 20:46, 18 June 2024 (UTC)Reply