Modest Genius
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Really, capital p for Palaearctic also when used adjectively
editThanks for responding to my comment at errors yesterday. I think you were mistaken, but I am not sure whether you saw my reply (sorry, I should have pinged). It is all off the Main Page now of course, but, in the hope that this might be useful to you in future, I copy the full interaction here.
- Capital p for Palaearctic please; the same as for continents, countries, etc. Thanks. JMCHutchinson (talk) 11:25, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- I think the lowercase version is correct in this instance: it's being used as an adjective, not a proper noun. Equivalent to the Alps vs an alpine habitat. Modest Genius talk 13:37, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- That's wrong. In English (unlike German and French) we use a capital for adjectives to do with geography: for instance, French fries, not french fries. If you are describing the location of a village in the Swiss Alps, it would be Alpine. The small-a alpine is a description of the environment, so you might apply it to a ski resort in the Rockies as well as to one in the Alps. The same goes for Mediterranean (to do with that specific sea) and mediterranean (to do with a climate, anywhere in the world). Palaearctic only has one meaning, referring to the northern part of the Western Hemisphere Eurasia and Africa, so always with a capital, whether used as a noun or an adjective. For instance, our article Palaearctic realm has "The Palaearctic realm" in the second paragraph. JMCHutchinson (talk) 15:06, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- I think UC is technically correct (I can find no hits on Google Books for the LC form), but would advise "it is distributed throughout Palearctic" as more natural phrasing. We wouldn't naturally say "it has an American distribution", for example. UndercoverClassicist T·C 20:43, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- That's wrong. In English (unlike German and French) we use a capital for adjectives to do with geography: for instance, French fries, not french fries. If you are describing the location of a village in the Swiss Alps, it would be Alpine. The small-a alpine is a description of the environment, so you might apply it to a ski resort in the Rockies as well as to one in the Alps. The same goes for Mediterranean (to do with that specific sea) and mediterranean (to do with a climate, anywhere in the world). Palaearctic only has one meaning, referring to the northern part of the Western Hemisphere Eurasia and Africa, so always with a capital, whether used as a noun or an adjective. For instance, our article Palaearctic realm has "The Palaearctic realm" in the second paragraph. JMCHutchinson (talk) 15:06, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
Cheers, JMCHutchinson (talk) 06:14, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Jmchutchinson: I think this is a subtle point that may well differ between style guides / dictionaries. The Palaearctic is a proper noun so capitalised, that's fine. The issue is whether the adjective form is specifically referring to the same proper noun, or a related concept that is derived from it but not identical. Taking my original example, something specifically from the Alps would be Alpine, but the associated type of climate is alpine because it's describing a broader concept and occurs in other places beyond the Alps. The question is then whether the spider's distribution exactly coincides with the Palaearctic, in which case capitalise, or if it is similar but not identical (e.g. extending into other areas), in which case lowercase. Regardless, it's a very minor point that I doubt many readers would notice, and I agree that it's better to simply rephrase to something like 'widely distributed throughout the Palaearctic'. Modest Genius talk 10:51, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- I think that your criterion of matching the exact distribution is a red herring. We talk of a European species or European culture regardless of whether its distribution matches the precise boundaries of Europe; do you ever read "european"? Palaearctic has no broader meaning that the geographical one. Anyway, yes, it's a minor thing for most people; only prominent to me because I edit a biological journal! Thanks for responding, and for all the other contributions that you make here. JMCHutchinson (talk) 11:26, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- Good point re Europe, that also seems to be the case with anything named after nations or countries. However I notice that the closely related term 'arctic' does get used in both capitalisations. Other examples are fen/Fens, steppe/Steppe, and I'm sure there are others. As is often the case, English language usage isn't fully consistent... Modest Genius talk 10:42, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- I think that your criterion of matching the exact distribution is a red herring. We talk of a European species or European culture regardless of whether its distribution matches the precise boundaries of Europe; do you ever read "european"? Palaearctic has no broader meaning that the geographical one. Anyway, yes, it's a minor thing for most people; only prominent to me because I edit a biological journal! Thanks for responding, and for all the other contributions that you make here. JMCHutchinson (talk) 11:26, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Jmchutchinson: I think this is a subtle point that may well differ between style guides / dictionaries. The Palaearctic is a proper noun so capitalised, that's fine. The issue is whether the adjective form is specifically referring to the same proper noun, or a related concept that is derived from it but not identical. Taking my original example, something specifically from the Alps would be Alpine, but the associated type of climate is alpine because it's describing a broader concept and occurs in other places beyond the Alps. The question is then whether the spider's distribution exactly coincides with the Palaearctic, in which case capitalise, or if it is similar but not identical (e.g. extending into other areas), in which case lowercase. Regardless, it's a very minor point that I doubt many readers would notice, and I agree that it's better to simply rephrase to something like 'widely distributed throughout the Palaearctic'. Modest Genius talk 10:51, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
"Minister for cities" listed at Redirects for discussion
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The redirect Minister for cities has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Anyone, including you, is welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 July 29 § Minister for cities until a consensus is reached. Thryduulf (talk) 09:07, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- I've commented there. Modest Genius talk 10:42, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
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