Talk:Huntsville, Alabama

I Corrected The Comedy Section...

I corrected the part that said Alright Bayou used to be known as Comedy Rush (It's hosted by a former host of Comedy Rush is more accurate), but I still think it should be reviewed for bias. It's not an all-inclusive list, there are no sources, and every one of the shows listed in the page has ties to one particular comedian, suggesting that comedian may have been the one to include them in the first place. Due to my personal bias, I'm not the best one to decide what to do with it, so if someone more objective could, that would be great.50.168.176.243 (talk) 16:02, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

Upon further inspection, the comedy section was added and exclusively maintained (except for the change I made today), by the webmaster for Huntsville Comedy, thus confirming my suspicion of bias. He's not the guy all the shows listed are tied to, but he administers the guy's website. I do think a comedy section is important but, like I said, I'm biased myself, so I'm not the right person to diagnose which shows are notable and which are not, and clean the section up.50.168.176.243 (talk) 18:41, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

• The text in the Comedy section seems fairly basic and not really promotional. I don't think it is a problem now, provided things do not get out of control. -Fnlayson (talk) 19:03, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

It seems the shows are now sourced, with their respective Facebook pages and own websites? Would you consider that out of control? Aside from the self-promotional thing, I do recall some earlier cleaning due to Facebook pages not being valid sources.50.168.176.243 (talk) 18:51, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

By the way, I'm still biased. I'm a comedian in the area, so I obviously have a lot to gain from the promotion of shows in the area, so you probably want to have someone impartial look at it.50.168.176.243 (talk) 19:00, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

• Yes, Facebook pages are not reliable sources. I've removed those and tagged the section for needing more sources. -Fnlayson (talk) 02:51, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

Films Section...

In addition to the potential self promotion that should be looked at (mentioned in the section above), I think the films section is naked without including Tom And Huck, which was shot in and around Huntsville. Here's a source: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0112302/locations?ref_=tt_dt_dt 50.168.176.243 (talk) 20:37, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

Status of Singing River Trail of North Alabama? Some sections are open but not officially named?

Anybody know when the Singing River Trail will start officially using its name?

Governors House Road (from Bob Wallace to Jordan Lane) is up and running. Protected bicycle lanes and everything. But that segment is not officially named yet. And because of that, some wiki editor is censoring content about it.

News articles, in case you don't know what I'm talking about:

• waaytv.com article from Feb 2019
• huntsvillebusinessjournal.com article from Dec 2019

--Hsvbypass (talk) 23:59, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

"Nazi", not "German"

As I'm sure all know, not all Germans are Nazis. However, the scientists taken from Nazi Germany were, in fact, all Nazis. They all were members of the National Socialist Party of Germany during World War 2. This is unambiguous. Calling them German puts them on equal footing to modern-day German citizens, which is dishonest. Huntsville, Alabama's history was shaped, in small part, by Nazi immigrants. To paint over that and call them German is not only dishonest, it is unfair to the readers who will read this article. It's like calling Hitler a German. No, he was a Nazi. Not only that, he wasn't even ethnically German, he was Austrian. The same is true for von Braun. Von Braun was Polish. Not German.

Calling him German is incorrect on two counts. Do not edit the article to that incorrect state. RobotGoggles (talk) 23:23, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

I will draw your attention to the citation used in the article, titled "German Rocketeers in the Heart of Dixie: Making Sense of the Nazi Past during the Civil Rights Era."

The source itself uses Nazi and German interchangeably.

Since the word Nazi is more specific, it is more correct and therefore more encyclopedic. RobotGoggles (talk) 23:38, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

It might be more specific, but not all Germans were Nazis, so no, it's not always incorrect. Further, the title of the source calls the people "Germans", but the era "Nazi", so that's not interchangeable usage. Since this article has evidently referred to them as Germans for a long time, and your change has been challenged, per WP:BRD, it's up to you to get a consensus to change it, which hasn't happened yet. BilCat (talk) 05:19, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

No, not all Germans were Nazis, but the scientists who were brought to Huntsville were primarily brought because of their experience building rockets for the Nazis during World War II. And I don't have a source handy, but there was considerable debate when the Civic Center was named after Von Braun. He was a Nazi and worked on rockets for the Nazis in World War II. I don't know about all of the rest of the scientists. In Germany at the time, people in some positions were required to join the Nazi party or they couldn't hold the position. I expect that would have been true of all the scientist working on war weapons. I don't think it's accurate to "clean-up" the past by failing to acknowledge that these scientists had worked for the Nazis. RobinLampert (talk) 04:09, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

Working for the Nazis is different than actually being a Nazi. I realize calling people "Nazis" when they aren't is politically in vogue right now, but unless we know for certain that all of these scientists were party members, we shouldn't do it in Wikipedia's voice. BilCat (talk) 04:32, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

Outdated map

Is anyone able to update the map? Huntsville is now annexed into Morgan County as well, which isn't on the map. Thanks! --PixelRocket (talk) 02:11, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

Major changes for GAN

Hi everyone, I've made a number of big changes today to prepare it for a good article nomination. These include cleaning up citations, bringing the article back up to date, and shuffling some sections around (like moving the biotechnology section from history to economy). If you have any comments or suggestions, please reply to this or go to my talk page. Thanks!

--MyCatIsAChonk (talk) 04:35, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

@MyCatIsAChonk: Just took a quick peek and can suggest one major thing: several long sections are just list of places/things; they need to be replaced with prose. Also, some paragraphs are still uncited. SounderBruce 05:07, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for your comments! --MyCatIsAChonk (talk) 13:18, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Huntsville, Alabama/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Phlsph7 (talk · contribs) 09:09, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

I'll review this one. I hope to have my initial assessment ready soon. Phlsph7 (talk) 09:09, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

I'm afraid this is a quick fail: there are too many unreferenced claims and paragraphs. I've added various "Citation needed"-tags to highlight the problem. They should all be addressed before the next nomination. Phlsph7 (talk) 10:09, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

A few other things that caught my eye:

• The article is relatively long. By my count, it has roughly 64kB of readable prose. For comparison, see WP:SIZERULE. There is no fixed rule here but this is an indication that it covers too many details, which should maybe be discussed in articles on more narrow subjects, see WP:SUMMARY.
• WP:EARWIG shows one potential copyright violation with [1] for the sentence "infectious disease diagnostics, immune responses to disease and cancer, protein crystallization, lab-on-a-chip technologies, and improved agricultural technologies".
• User:Headbomb/unreliable shows a few unreliable sources, like Blogspot, Facebook, and Internet Movie Database.
• User:Evad37/duplinks-alt.js shows various duplicate links, like cotton, Great Depression, Holger Toftoy, and Redstone Arsenal. See MOS:DUPLINK.
• There are no edit wars.
• Land Trust of North Alabama is a member supported, non-profit organization dedicated to the conservation of the natural heritage of the area, and has preserved more than 5,500 acres (22 km2) of open space, wildflower areas, wetlands, working farms, and scenic vistas in North Alabama, including 1,107 acres (448 ha) of the Monte Sano Nature Preserve (Monte Sano Mountain), 1,471 acres (595 ha) of the Blevins Gap and Green Mountain Nature Preserves (Huntsville & Green Mountains), and 935 acres (378 ha) of the Wade Mountain Nature Preserve.: this is a very long sentence. Maybe split it up into several shorter ones.
• The National Trust for Historic Preservation named Huntsville to its "America's Dozen Distinctive Destinations for 2010" list.: I think "included Huntsville in its ... list" sounds more natural.
• Today only the antebellum smokehouse survives at the property.: replace "at" with "on".
• Huntsville's initial growth was based on wealth generated by sale of cotton from plantations: add "the" before "sale".
• On July 1, 1960, 4,670 civilian employees, associated buildings and equipment, and 1,840 acres (7.4 km2) of land, transferred from ABMA to form NASA's George C. Marshall Space Flight Center (MSFC).: I think it should be "were transferred".
• Huntsville has become the second-largest technology and research park in the nation, and ranks among the top 25 most educated cities in the nation.: remove the comma before "and".
• Average yearly precipitation is more than 54 inches: add "The" before "Average".
• from WP:WTW:
  • Clay House Museum is an antebellum home built c. 1853 which showcases decorative styles up to 1950 and has an outstanding collection of Noritake porcelain.: "outstanding"
  • Huntsville Fire & Rescue also has Fire Investigations, emergency response dispatch, logistics, and training divisions, all of which are diverse, innovative and efficient: "innovative". Sounds a little like an advertisement for Huntsville Fire & Rescue.

Phlsph7 (talk) 10:09, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for your review, I'll get working to fixing these! MyCatIsAChonk (talk) 13:17, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

New images in the infobox

Hi everyone. Having lived in Huntsville in the past, the images in the infobox montage seem odd to me; the Saturn V and First National Bank are most definitely iconic and I believe should stay there, but I also think we should consider replacing the other two images of the courthouse and Shelby Center. I believe that an image of Big Spring Park, like this, this, or this one would be much more fitting, as Big Spring Park is (in my opinion) more of a Huntsville icon than the courthouse/Shelby Center. As for the other image, an image of Lowe Mill (like this or this) or the Train Depot (like this) would be (again, in my opinion) more fitting for the article and capture some of Huntsville's most iconic sites more than the current images. Thoughts? MyCatIsAChonk (talk) 18:15, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

This picture looks good. Magnolia677 (talk) 19:41, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Huntsville, Alabama/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: FormalDude (talk · contribs)
Nominator: MyCatIsAChonk (talk · contribs)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a. (prose, spelling, and grammar):

   The prose is clear and concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience. Spelling and grammar are good.

   b. (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

   MOS compliant.

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a. (reference section):

   b. (citations to reliable sources):

   c. (OR):

   d. (copyvio and plagiarism):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a. (major aspects):

   b. (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a. (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales):

   b. (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/fail: ✓ Pass

(Criteria marked are unassessed)

Comments

Starting the review. I will make comments here and update the table above as we go. ––FormalDude (talk) 01:22, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

• The lede says twice that Huntsville is Alabama's most populous city. (First and last paragraphs)
  • Cut second instance. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 15:34, 20 May 2023 (UTC)
• "This area was later annexed by the city." missing a reference.
  • Cut the statement because I can't find a source to back it. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 15:34, 20 May 2023 (UTC)
• Seems worth mentioning that William Hooper Councill High School was the first public school for African Americans in the city.
  • Added. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 15:34, 20 May 2023 (UTC)
• There's little to no coverage of the desegregation of Huntsville or how the city was impacted by the civil rights movement. Martin Luther King Jr. gave a speech at Huntsville’s Oakwood University. Huntsville was the first Alabama city to integrate a public school.
  • Added a paragraph. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 15:34, 20 May 2023 (UTC)
• Could mention the Buffalo Soldiers history in the area. [2]
  • I don't think this is quite notable enough- there's only a few sources I can find on the subject, and it seemed the soldiers were only in Huntsville for a little bit. Huntsville isn't even mentioned on the article about them. Though, it is certainly interesting. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 15:34, 20 May 2023 (UTC)
• There are too many section headers dividing up the content, it clutters the article with headings and inhibits the flow of the prose.
  • Changed the headers. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 15:34, 20 May 2023 (UTC)
• Replace citation 316 to Britannica with a secondary source.
  • Fixed
• Remove duplicate wikilinks to North Alabama Railroad Museum, Huntsville Depot, and Operation Paperclip.
  • Fixed. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 15:34, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

@FormalDude: I believe I've addressed all your comments thus far. Thanks for the review, and I look forward to any further comments. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 15:34, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

@MyCatIsAChonk: Looks good, but I'm still not satisfied with the coverage of the civil rights era. You just added a paragraph to the Military and NASA involvement section, and it doesn't belong there. I think it should have its own section and go into further detail. Take a look at Mobile, Alabama#20th century for example. If you can flesh it out more it'll be much closer to GA status. ––FormalDude (talk) 22:12, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

@FormalDude, I added a new header and a bunch more information. Most of this information is about the early 60s because I can't find any other coverage about the movement past that- the book chapter (Fisk 2019) only talks about it in small detail, and I can't find much else online. If you think more is needed and have more sources, I'm happy to expand. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 00:27, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

@MyCatIsAChonk: That's much better, however, I've found a number of issues that still need to be addressed. As such I'm placing the nomination on hold. ––FormalDude (talk) 03:52, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

• The article relies heavily on primary sources and strays into potentially unnecessary detail (see summary style). Suggest removing tangents and minor details that are only covered in primary sources, and adding secondary sources where possible. Using primary sources for businesses like breweries, comedy clubs, country clubs, etc. is especially problematic.
• Some of the cited sources do not verify the article text. I could not verify the following content with the sources provided:
  • Huntsville's most popular park is Big Spring International Park
  • Huntsville's largest stadium is the Von Braun Center
  • The Three Caves is a former rock quarry
  • Huntsville's main economic influence is derived from aerospace and military technology.
  • Since Huntsville is nearly 300 miles (480 km) inland, hurricanes rarely arrive with their full force; however, many weakened tropical storms cross the area after a U.S. Gulf Coast landfall.
  • Huntsville's economy was nearly crippled and growth almost came to a standstill in the 1970s following the closure of the Apollo program
  • Five Points Historic District, consists predominantly of bungalows built around the beginning of the 20th century, by which time Huntsville was becoming a mill town.
• No mention of how the slave trade grew the early economy of Huntsville.
• In 2015, Alabama and Huntsville were not considered bicycle friendly. This is sourced to an advocacy group and should therefore have WP:INTEXT attribution.

@FormalDude: I believe I've addressed all your comments. I added tons of secondary sources (specifically under Sports, Parks, and Arts and culture) as well as cut quite a bit of content I found not notable due to lack of coverage. Regarding the statements above, I either added a source or just cut it due to, again, lack of notability/relevance. As for the slave trade, I added a bit under 'Emerging industries', but I actually had a hard time finding information about it online. I was only able to add a bit, since there weren't many sources about how the trade influenced Huntsville prior to the Civil War and emancipation. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 11:53, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

@MyCatIsAChonk: Can you incorporate how the cotton sale was produced by slave labor and resulted in the wealth? It looks like that's covered in both citation 25 and citation 26, but it's not mentioned in the content they're referenced for.

The only other problem I don't see fixed is "Huntsville's most popular park is Big Spring International Park" which is still not verified by the sources, and TripAdvisor is a WP:UGC. ––FormalDude (talk) 17:38, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

@FormalDude, I cut the "most popular park" claim and just left it. I also added a bit about the slave trade and cotton, thanks for finding those sources! MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 20:57, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Bruxton (talk) 01:16, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

• ... that Huntsville, Alabama, was originally named Twickenham but was changed to Huntsville due to anti-British sentiment? Source: Record, James, and John McCormick; "Huntsville, Alabama: Rocket City, U.S.A.", pamphlet published in 1953 by Strode Publishers
  • ALT1: ... that Huntsville is Alabama's first incorporated town and its most populous city? Source: https://www.huntsvilleal.gov/business/city-of-huntsville/the-history-of-huntsville/ , http://www.huntsville.org/rocket-city/our-cities/madison-county/
  • ALT2: ... that Huntsville was the first city in Alabama to desegregate its schools? Source: https://www.waff.com/story/13858582/blue-jeans-put-huntsville-in-civil-rights-movement
  • ALT3: ... that Huntsville, Alabama, is the center of rocket-propulsion research for NASA and the United States Army? Source: https://www.spacefoundation.org/company/nasa-marshall-space-flight-center/
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Messe in A (Tambling)

Improved to Good Article status by MyCatIsAChonk (talk). Nominated by Onegreatjoke (talk) at 03:29, 2 June 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Huntsville, Alabama; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook eligibility:

• Cited: - yes; AGF on ALT0
• Interesting:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: Epicgenius (talk) 01:00, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

Comments and questions

1. In the "Civil War" section I read "The 4th Alabama Infantry Regiment" and "The Fourth Alabama Infantry".

Are they the same? If they are, why aren't they spelled the same way?

2. Under "Civil War" I read "During the first occupation" and right after that "In the initial occupation" which are repetitive.

3. "Huntsville has borders surrounding both the cities of Madison and Triana. Huntsville also borders the cities of Decatur, Athens, Owens Cross Roads, the town of Mooresville as well as the CDPs of Moores Mill, Meridianville, Laceys Spring, and Redstone Arsenal."

What the heck is "CDPs"?

3. Spoiler: for those of you who want to see the Space Shuttle Pathfinder at Space Camp, do not keep your hopes too high. I have been there in September of 2023 and the Pathfinder has been missing for at least 2 1/2 years so do not expect it to be back soon. If you are expecting to see the image used in the article you will be disappointed.

4. In the "Visual arts and festivals" section "HALMA" is mentioned. After that the text says "HAL". Is that the same? If it is, why isn't it spelled out as "HALMA"?

5. "The Tennessee Valley Raptors were an indoor football team established in 2000 and relocated to Rockford, Illinois in 2005.[193] The Alabama Hammers were an indoor football team established in 2010 and folded in 2016 due to the collapse of the league."

What's the correlation with Huntsville?

6. In the "Higher education" section the text mentions "STEM workforce".

What the heck is that?

7. "Huntsville is the 108th largest radio market in the United States."

How important is it to make this statement? I would understand if it were in the top 10.

8. "Until the mid-1950s, the L&N provided freight and passenger service to Guntersville and points South."

I do not follow the grammar or meaning of this sentence which needs to be revised.

9. "He also said: "Having that body cam there, having the police video there record what actually happens, and when people come in with complaints against Huntsville police officers, they get to see the action that actually happened.""

Who is "he"?

ICE77 (talk) 07:56, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

Thank you very much for the ce and comments- I believe I've fixed them all in the prose now. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 14:42, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

MyCatIsAChonk, thank you for fixing/updating. ICE77 (talk) 06:48, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

GA Reassessment

Huntsville, Alabama

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch • Watch article reassessment page • Most recent review

Result: Agreement between both the orginal nominator and reviewer that this was a bad review, thus delist. Clyde _{[trout needed]} 17:46, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Last year, I nominated this article for GA and it was rightfully quickfailed. After another (albeit small) revision, it passed another review in May of this year. I have since become a much more experienced editor, and after re-reading through this upon an inquiry on the talk page, I do not believe this aligns with the GA criteria. There's a lack of page numbers on many sources in the history section, there's little independent coverage of the subjects discussed under arts and culture, and the reliability of numerous sources is questionable (e.g. RateBeer.com, Encyclopedia of Alabama, Tennessee Valley Civil War Round Table, etc). This article fails criteria points 2b and 3a. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 14:49, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

I don't believe we've had a self-nom before; thanks for your honesty MyCatIsAChonk. Personally, it seems to me that the quality of the sources is the real smoking gun, and unfortunately it would take a lot of effort to replace all of them. Delist ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 22:41, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

Ok, I take the self-nom part back, buidhe has apparently beaten you by a day. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 22:42, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

I was the reviewer and I only spot-checked a handful of references. Upon a closer look, I agree with both of you that we should delist due to questionable sources. ––FormalDude (talk) 05:08, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Notable Addition

After looking through the article I didn't see any mention of the vast amount of caves in Huntsville nor that Huntsville is the location for the NSS (National Speleological Society) headquarters. I believe Madison county has the highest concentration of individual cave systems in the nation. Are these wikiworthy facts? Nsherer (talk) 01:27, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

Maybe this is wrong but i think the coordinates listed in the Geography section are incorrect? I think they are for Demopolis, Alabama instead of Huntsville. Sorry if this is wrong, I don’t want to be a bother 42 Xela (talk) 04:34, 9 July 2024 (UTC)