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Template:Did you know nominations/Messe in A (Tambling)

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cielquiparle (talk) 14:43, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

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Messe in A (Tambling)

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ChristopherTambling in 2011
ChristopherTambling in 2011
  • ... that Christopher Tambling (pictured), who composed the 2010 mass Messe in A for a German boys' choir, has been credited with knowing exactly what young singers are capable to sing and like to sing? Source: [1] for the quote

Created by Gerda Arendt (talk). Self-nominated at 21:20, 29 October 2022 (UTC).

General: Article is new enough and long enough
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
QPQ: Done.

Overall: @Gerda Arendt: Good article. However, it feels as if the hook is more about Christopher tambling then it is about Messe in A which is the main focus of this hook. Could you either find a new hook or word it in a way that makes Messe in A more pronounced? Onegreatjoke (talk) 23:57, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for the review. My English is not up to a rewording with the mass in the front, perhaps you could suggest. He was commissioned because this is so, but the writing of the sentence came after it, - I have no idea how to say it in short. The mass is beloved by Catholics and Protestants, children and seniors, but that is a summary of many detailed sources, nowhere said like that, and quite unusual for a 2010 work. Did you listen? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:09, 30 October 2022 (UTC)
@Gerda Arendt: For the rewording you could say
ALT0a: ... that the 2010 mass Messe in A was composed by Christopher Tambling (pictured) who has been credited with knowing exactly what young singers are capable to sing and like to sing? Onegreatjoke (talk) 17:01, 30 October 2022 (UTC)
I am sorry for my obvious lack of English - not my native language - because that reads to me as just the same fact, only in passive voice, while I prefer active voice. Go ahead, you can even approve it because it's no new fact (which would need a different reviewer). Will sing it - first time - on 1 November. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:06, 30 October 2022 (UTC)
  • I'll approve but I don't know if this hook will be okay. Onegreatjoke (talk) 13:18, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
    • @Gerda Arendt and Onegreatjoke: I have doubts that this source is independent of Tambling, and would shy away from using it for positive quotes about him. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 22:15, 4 November 2022 (UTC)
      Please explain. It's a group making recommendations for music to be used in churches of South Tyrol, Italy. How is that "dependent" (of an English composer popular in Germany)? They also recommend other music, 16 works in that issue. They just nailed shortest what others also say. There's a reason that this mass is performed at all the cathedrals. We performed it last Sunday, with pleasure. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:26, 4 November 2022 (UTC)
      It's a group whose goal is to promote church music; it's an advocacy group. It doesn't provide critical review; anything it mentions is a glowing endorsement. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 02:38, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
      No it's a church group that picks the music they think serves best. They picked this, not #1 but high enough to be listed. They would criticise faults if they were there, but this is just simple and beautiful, and serving it's purpose. We sang it, so I know what I talk about. - If you don't believe the group, me and all the cathedral choirs who do perform this piece we could say that he was commisissioned to write " a melodic work, easy to perform and of a joyful disposition", but I always hesitate to use something translated. Remember how Talia Or "beherrscht die Scene" which seems to come out so differently in English. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:16, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
      Is my read of this website correct? Do they accept monetary orders for full versions of Tambling's sheet music? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 10:00, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
      Ah, it seems they get discounts when you order through them to music sellers. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 10:03, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
      Right, - they - as a church organisation - get 10% discount and pass that to parishes who order via them, as a service and regardless of which piece. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:03, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
  • @Gerda Arendt and Theleekycauldron: This nomination looks like it's stalled. From what I can see, either leeky needs to agree that the current hook is OK and restore the tick, or Gerda needs to supply a new hook. Could we make one of those things happen? -- RoySmith (talk) 20:12, 24 November 2022 (UTC)
@Gerda Arendt: I'm not sure I like that hook so much. I did screw up earlier with the difference between them selling the music and simply acting as an intermediary, so let me ask you: would South Tyrol make any kind of commission when you order through their website? Is there any financial reason they would want you to order that way, or is it more like Sam's Club, where they make money just from having members? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 20:06, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
They are a church organistion, trying to help church musicians making good music. Packing for travel now. Is this another of the noms where the discussion gets four times article length? In the good old days when DYK was no big deal that I still remember ... - We heard today that we'll sing another Tambling mass next year, in B and with bells and brass - that's easier ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:21, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
Hello ...
ALT3: ... that the 2010 mass Messe in A by Christopher Tambling (pictured) can be sung by a choir of one voice, or two voices, or four voices?
I don't like it - sheer numbers, no spirit - but trying to please. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:19, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
@Gerda Arendt: Could a hook highlighting that it was so popular a full choir version was commissioned be written? I'd propose one myself but then someone else would have to review and we may be waiting a while :) Kingsif (talk) 04:20, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
Go ahead, I don't mind waiting. For Talia Or, I waited from 9 October to 26 December, making it an unexpected Christmas gift in the end :) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:14, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
  • Reviewer needed for ALT4. Thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 16:55, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
    • I'm not gonna review this, but I'll just input that I would reject ALT4 if it were in any other topic area. Did you know ... that Taylor Swift's "Love Story", originally written with banjo and mandolin, proved so popular that an acoustic version was later released as well? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 04:20, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
      • I would say it would be more comparable to saying "Love Story, originally a country ballad, was so popular that a death metal version was later released" (especially since, er, mandolin and banjo are typically acoustic instruments) - and I don't think one needs to know about opera at all to recognise the gear change between high voices and a full four-part choir. Kingsif (talk) 05:10, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
        • I'm not sure I agree – the difference between high voices and SATB, in that they're both sets of human vocals with different pitches and timbres, is more comparable to the difference between different types of acoustic instruments, in that they're both sets of plucked wood-string instruments with different pitches and timbres. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 05:17, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
          • I'm sure I disagree: it was a simple thing meant for kids, easy cheerful one vocal part or two, but the adults also wanted it. I can't word it, I tried and tried, am so sorry, and soooooo tired of this. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:11, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
  • ALT4 approved. I'm not a music expert (and even less so for choral music), but the hook seems interesting to me. Image not approved; the hook is about the piece, not the author. If there was a photo of the piece being performed, that would be appropriate. -- RoySmith (talk) 15:26, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
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