Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Japan/Archive/January 2019

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Help on an AFD regarding a Samurai

Chōsokabe Chikatada has been nominated for deletion, but there are some questions about sourcing in the delete discussion regarding Japanese-language sources. Any Japanese-speakers want to give some input? FOARP (talk) 14:58, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

"Japanese idol" article in danger

Please take a look at this discussion:

• Talk:Korean idol#Requested move 21 December 2018.

Some people want to rename the "Japanese idol" article to "Idols in Japan" or "Pop idols in Japan"! It looks like they believe that "Japanese idol" is simply a term for any Japanese celebrity and that a Korean pop idol moving to Japan would automatically become a "Japanese idol".
(And only to think that the article "Korean idol" was created in 2011 by copy-pasting the lead section of the "Japanese idol" article. Just look at he first verison. And now that new article is creating problems for the article about the distinctly Japanese phenomenon that was roughly copied by Korean entertainment companies. Or maybe, they just used the word that was made popular in Asia by Japanese. Cause Korean idols are completely different.) --Moscow Connection (talk) 02:43, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

Moscow Connection, although I had already closed this discussion before noticing this post, I think I should note that the tone here is not at all that of a neutral notification, and thus does not appear to follow WP:CANVASS. Please keep this in mind in the future. Dekimasuよ! 19:14, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

2019 list pages for music and movies

I've created the following pages that can be moved to mainspace around the end of December:

• User:Nihonjoe/2019 in Japanese music
• User:Nihonjoe/List of Hot 100 number-one singles of 2019 (Japan)
• User:Nihonjoe/List of Oricon number-one albums of 2019
• User:Nihonjoe/List of Oricon number-one singles of 2019
• User:Nihonjoe/List of 2019 box office number-one films in Japan

Feel free to list others below and I'll make them so we just have to move them at the end of the month. Pinging @Sonio194, Ss112, TheDeviantPro, Cattus, and Sid95Q: as they have been working on the 2018 pages. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 21:10, 17 December 2018 (UTC) Listing a few more action items:

• Template:Music of Japan will need to be updated.
• Template:Number-one singles in Japan will need to be updated
• Category:2019 in Japanese music will need to be created
• Category:2019 record charts will need to be created
• Category:Lists of 2019 box office number-one films will need to be created

···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 21:22, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

Okay, working on these:

• User:Nihonjoe/2019 in Japanese music → 2019 in Japanese music  Done
• User:Nihonjoe/List of Hot 100 number-one singles of 2019 (Japan) → List of Hot 100 number-one singles of 2019 (Japan)  Done
• User:Nihonjoe/List of Oricon number-one albums of 2019 → List of Oricon number-one albums of 2019  Done
• User:Nihonjoe/List of Oricon number-one singles of 2019 → List of Oricon number-one singles of 2019  Done
• User:Nihonjoe/List of 2019 box office number-one films in Japan → List of 2019 box office number-one films in Japan  Done
• Update Template:Music of Japan.  Done
• Update Template:Number-one singles in Japan.  Done
• Create Category:2019 in Japanese music.  Done
• Create Category:2019 record charts.  Done
• Create Category:Lists of 2019 box office number-one films.  Done

···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 18:16, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

Okay, these have all been created and updated. Pinging @Sonio194, Ss112, TheDeviantPro, Cattus, and Sid95Q: as they have been working on the 2018 pages. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 18:21, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

Closed discussion on the overwriting of redirects.
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
@Nihonjoe: I must say I'm annoyed by this entirely unnecessary deletion of my redirects. Was it really necessary for you to erase redirects I made when I'm the one primarily working on three of the above lists, as I don't see you regularly contributing to them week after week, or do you feel it's your pre-existing right of sorts to make them because you're interested in Japanese topics? I would have made them into articles when the first charts are published. You had nothing of consequence to add to any of them because the first charts of the year haven't even been published yet. You essentially just pinged me to let me know you moved your sandbox pages with nothing on them over redirects I made. It is not a requirement that your sandbox articles had to replace redirects—I created those redirects not knowing you had made sandbox placeholders for them (which seems entirely pointless when you could have just made the redirects yourself). What am I honestly being notified for? Thanks for, essentially, nothing. Ss112 19:02, 1 January 2019 (UTC) (ec) The redirects were overwritten automatically by moves. If there were multiple edits to any of the sandbox versions that's proper in order to retain edit histories, and in either event it is not usually considered impolite or improper to overwrite redirects. I suppose the redirects could be restored, if they predated the sandbox versions, but I am confused as to what the purpose would be. While empty articles are not really necessary, I am also unclear on what, if any, harm has been done. Dekimasuよ! 19:12, 1 January 2019 (UTC) It looks like the sandboxed versions preceded the redirects. Dekimasuよ! 19:33, 1 January 2019 (UTC) I don't believe it's required that edits to sandboxes ever have to become part of a mainspace article, and hardly anything had been done to them anyway. These articles have no references yet, and nothing beyond a single sentence, a template, the heading line of a table, and a few categories. That's a content-less article, so I've redirected them, and they seem to have been conveniently moved over now, maybe because Nihonjoe knows the charts will be published later today. I stand by what I said—these deletions are unnecessary because nothing of substance replaced them. I really don't think it's unusual for editors to be bothered by the fact that anything they made, redirects or not, were deleted to make room for what amounts to nothing. Ss112 19:19, 1 January 2019 (UTC) @Ss112: Sorry you feel annoyed at having the redirect overwritten, but they would have been overwritten at some point anyway. I created the pages because most (all?) of the charts will be updated this week. I did this last year, too, for the 2018 articles like these, and no one complained about it then. The redirects you created aren't any more useful than what I created, anyway, as someone looking for 2019 information isn't going to be helped by being redirected to a page that doesn't contain what they are looking for. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 18:12, 2 January 2019 (UTC) @Ss112: Also, your claim of not knowing I had made these falls flat as I pinged you back in the middle of December (look at the first post here). I specifically pinged those who had been working on the 2018 articles because I figured those editors (including you) would appreciate having a ready-made page that could be used without any extra work on your part. Guess I was wrong, at least in your case. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 18:21, 2 January 2019 (UTC) @Nihonjoe: Yes, I know why you did it this week, and I guess nobody complained last year because nobody's redirects were overwritten by pages with nothing useful on them then. As for your "aren't any more useful" bit—yes, and nor are readers helped by your content-less pages, so it was a useless move/overwrite to begin with. Also, no, my claim does not "fail", because I don't even recall getting said ping. Please don't insinuate I saw something and just went and created redirects knowing full well you had made sandbox pages for them already. I wouldn't have bothered because I would have probably known then you'd go and do this anyway. Like, come on. Spare me the "extra work"? That sounds like a pretty flimsy reason. I don't see creating the bare bones of an article when the first chart of a year is published as any real kind of work or exertion of effort to begin with. Also, please don't ping me here again—I've said what I wanted to say. You can continue going on about it if you wish, but I don't. Thanks. Ss112 18:26, 2 January 2019 (UTC) @Ss112: Sorry, but this is a collaborative encyclopedia, meaning anything you or I do may be edited, changed, or even deleted. I wouldn't have overwritten a page if it contained actual information. As you said, the charts are normally published on Tuesdays and Wednesdays, but looking at the Japanese sites, I think they might have skipped them this week due to New Year's Day falling on Tuesday. If you insist on doing everything yourself, then this is not the place for you. However, if you're willing to work with other people, including when they create a template that requires you to simply fill in the blanks as data becomes available, then you are welcome to continue participating. I appreciate all the work you do with these lists, and despite what it seems you think (based on the apparent tone of your comments here), I wasn't doing any of this to try to piss you off. Yes, I created the pages as templates to help those working on them, whether you believe it or not. Part of the collaboration is being pinged in a conversation to make sure you don't miss comments intended for you. You can ignore the pings, but then you'll be seen as unwilling to work with other editors. We want and need your participation, so I hope you don't do that. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 18:55, 2 January 2019 (UTC) This is getting ridiculous. I asked you not to ping me. It is the courteous thing to do to respect that request, not just say "you can ignore it" and continue to do so. I honestly thought an administrator would know better than to annoy somebody who's asked not to be, and to essentially put words in one's mouth. I'm well aware of Wikipedia is—thank you very much. I don't need to be treated or spoken to like a belligerent newbie rather than an experienced and justifiably annoyed editor. I also don't need your blessing to "continue collaborating", wherever you even meant, regardless of what (you think) my thoughts on what Wikipedia's purpose is. I will reiterate, for the final time: Nobody needed you to make an outline for them when they're quite capable of doing so themselves because the. Your overwrite was entirely unnecessary; your pages were essentially nothing. That's my opinion; it's not going to be changed, nor does it need to be. That is not me saying I want to "do everything myself". I will also say for the final time: Do not continue pinging me here to prove some kind of point. I do not wish to be part of this WikiProject or conversation (any longer than having said my piece) just because I update a few number-one lists, so respect that request and don't disregard my wishes, especially since it's not a requirement for me to engage here nor be notified. Now thank you, goodbye. Ss112 20:25, 2 January 2019 (UTC)

Making a common page notice for WikiProject Japan articles linking to project guidelines?

As per Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)#Display_a_link_to_WikiProject/topic_specific_guidelines_when_editing_an_article? I suggested that WikiProjects could make pagenotices covering all articles relevant to their projects.

IMO a good way to notify new users of manual of style/project guidelines is to use a common pagenotice. Please take a look and consider what kind of pagenotice you would like. Thanks, WhisperToMe (talk) 05:53, 11 January 2019 (UTC)

Question

There's been some confusion at Folklore (TV series) about whether or not the Takumi Saitoh who directed an episode of that series is the same person as Takumi Saito the actor. Since in all likelihood both the series and the actor would have a lot more sourceability in Japanese-language sources than they do in English ones, but as a non-speaker of Japanese I had to start the article based strictly on what I could find in English sources around its preview screenings at North American film festivals, could somebody here look into this and determine whether the director's name should link to the actor's article or not? Thanks. Bearcat (talk) 17:52, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

Yes, it is the same person. Dekimasuよ! 18:00, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

Here is an example of a cite using the spelling "Takumi Saito" (though it doesn't say he's the actor there). "Saito", "Saitoh", and "Saitō" are all ways to romanize the same surname. Dekimasuよ! 18:05, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

Thanks. Bearcat (talk) 20:52, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

Gackt RIAJ certification

Hi! The article of Gackt claims that some of his albums were certified gold by RIAJ, I marked them with citation needed as I manually browsed through the RIAJ database month by month (yes, seriously), and could not find them. I put references to those I did find. Maybe the database is not 100% correct and previously existing older pages might show this, but this is how far my Japanese reading ability with Google Translate takes me. I'd appreciate if a Japanese speaker could check upon these albums and their RIAJ certification. The records in question are:

• Mizérable
• Rebirth
• Another World

Thanks a lot. Teemeah ^{편지 (letter)} 19:22, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

Yes, you are correct–they are not listed. Now, until June 2003 RIAJ used 200K units as the standard for gold certification and after June 2003 they switched to 100K, but I am not aware of any move to retroactively award gold status to things that didn't qualify under the old standard. Of course, based on the cited Oricon number, "Another World" should qualify either way (I couldn't immediately get the cited numbers for the albums off of Oricon's site, but they also look reasonable). It looks like the RIAJ site doesn't list things that hit the gold level if they are more than a year old, only things that reach a million-sales milestone. Whether or not gold status is awarded and unlisted, who knows (it also says the company putting the CD out has to apply for the status). But there is nothing on RIAJ that indicates gold status for these. Dekimasuよ! 20:20, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

@Dekimasu: thanks a lot! I will remove the sentences from the articles with this comment and in case someone manages to find any references, it can still be reinstated. I also tried searching archive.org with the Japanese word for "gold" and the album titles, but no luck there, either. Teemeah ^{편지 (letter)} 20:22, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

I can't find any sources for those releases in the scans of the hard copy documents, however I do have sources for Vanilla () and Mars () --Prosperosity (talk) 08:16, 15 January 2019 (UTC)

@Prosperosity:, thank you, those have been previously sourced, they are in the normal RIAJ database, too. The issue is with those three albums above. Cheers, Teemeah ^{편지 (letter)} 10:37, 15 January 2019 (UTC)

You could keep checking through the hard-copy archives (http://web.archive.org/web/20131102225853/http://www.riaj.or.jp/issue/record/1999/199910.pdf - just change the date in the link), but as far as I can tell, those releases were never certified. --Prosperosity (talk) 06:53, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

References

Request translation from Japanese to English

Please, someone can help me with these translations, because I'm too busy: 烏丸家 (Karasumaru family), 亀井重清 (Shigekiyo Kamei), 片岡常春 (Tsuneharu Kataoka), 伊勢義盛 (Yoshimori Ise), 駿河次郎 (Jirō Suruga), 富樫泰家 (Yasuie Togashi), 大社駅 (Taisha Station). Thank you. --87.14.25.78 15:11, 27 January 2019 (UTC)