Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Japan/Archive/December 2017
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Midori (violinist)
editThere's an ongoing debate regarding the use of the spelling of the birth name of Midori (violinist), whether it should be "Midori" or "Mi Dori". The discussion is at Talk:Midori (violinist)#Japanese name. Thanks, Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 07:55, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
Disambiguation links on pages tagged by this wikiproject
editWikipedia has many thousands of wikilinks which point to disambiguation pages. It would be useful to readers if these links directed them to the specific pages of interest, rather than making them search through a list. Members of WikiProject Disambiguation have been working on this and the total number is now below 20,000 for the first time. Some of these links require specialist knowledge of the topics concerned and therefore it would be great if you could help in your area of expertise.
A list of the relevant links on pages which fall within the remit of this wikiproject can be found at http://69.142.160.183/~dispenser/cgi-bin/topic_points.py?banner=WikiProject_Japan
Please take a few minutes to help make these more useful to our readers.— Rod talk 16:30, 3 December 2017 (UTC)
Koda Kumi, an article that you or your project may be interested in, has been nominated for an individual good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. ℯxplicit 06:17, 4 December 2017 (UTC)
Japanese transcriptions of fictional character names in non-Japanese media
editSee this for what specifically brought this to mind. I feel like artificial transcriptions of made up names of Japanese characters in western media don't merit inclusion in the lead and should probably be discussed inline as made up Japanese transcriprions of unrealistic names where such is applicable and can be sourced.
Thoughts?
It's peripherally related, but I'm 90% certain "Yashida" is just a misspelling of how the name "Yoshida" is frequently pronounced in English (both the "o" and "a" simply being pronounced /ə/, or the "o" being that way and the "a" being very close), so I really feel like the Japanese translators should have just written that name as "吉田" to begin with. If they had, it probably wouldn't have stood out as much as it does, and I would have missed the problem facing Wikipedia, so it's a bit of a "Kobayashi-maru". (笑)
Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 01:07, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
- If the kanji have been used in an official release somewhere, I see no problem with including them in the article. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 01:32, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
- Oh, I know, but I mean in the lead like in that article I linked. From where I sit it seems to give the impression that it's a "Japanese topic" and the "real" name is the Japanese one. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 13:02, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
- Well, for the Japanese character, it is the real one. It seems they've used it since the character was introduced (as far as I can tell), so I don't see a problem. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 22:09, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
- Assuming we are still talking about Shingen Yashida, I highly doubt they've used it since the character's introduction. Nothing in our articles on either Claremont or Miller imply they read Japanese, or are even familiar with kanji, let alone enough to create a realistic Japanese rendition of their made up Japanese name, and what I have seen of Marvel comics in the 1980s that include "Japanese text" mostly "vaguely oriental-looking" gibberish, which means the kanji were retroactively given to the character by someone. That's why I requested a source on that particular page. But I feel like in general it's just a quasi-interesting piece of trivia, not like most actual Japanese topics where the Japanese spelling of the name is arguably the most important thing about most of them and is integral to the lead. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 22:29, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
- I don't know enough about manga to say, but this strikes me as the kind of name that a Japanese manga artist might invent... better than the very common Yoshida. Anway, rather than asking whether it's important enough for the lead, this is just a formula for Japanese names. If it has some currency in Japanese, which it seems to, then wouldn't it be useful for looking up? I don't see why we should make an exception and not include it. – Margin1522 (talk) 02:43, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
- But we're not talking about manga. We're talking about American comics and other non-Japanese media that feature Japanese fictional characters whose names were invented in English and were retroactively given kanji representations. I can't imagine why a reader of English Wikipedia would want to know the kanji for looking up such a topic, because there's usually much more material on them in English than in Japanese, and if they really want to know it they can read further down the article. There's also the fact that it's really not "basic information" for such topics and should not be uncited in the lead (which is very different from normal Japanese topics). Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 06:10, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
- You may have a point about the language in other Marvel comics. I wouldn't know. But a couple of points. I'm sure we have articles on plenty of oddly named characters from Japanese manga and anime, and if they get kanji why not Shingen? And the other is you never know who might need it. This morning I was trying to help out with the disambiguation request posted above by fixing the links for a pair of daimyō named Ōkubo Tadayoshi from the Karasuyama Domain. They were linked to a disamb page, which listed another pair of daimyō named Ōkubo Tadayoshi. But they were from the Odawara Domain. It took me about 20 minutes to figure out that these were all different people. It would have been clear at a glance if the disamb page had listed the kanji in their names, so I added them, even though normally we don't do that. It might help if someone is as confused as I was and wants to tell them apart.– Margin1522 (talk) 08:27, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
- But we're not talking about manga. We're talking about American comics and other non-Japanese media that feature Japanese fictional characters whose names were invented in English and were retroactively given kanji representations. I can't imagine why a reader of English Wikipedia would want to know the kanji for looking up such a topic, because there's usually much more material on them in English than in Japanese, and if they really want to know it they can read further down the article. There's also the fact that it's really not "basic information" for such topics and should not be uncited in the lead (which is very different from normal Japanese topics). Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 06:10, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
- I don't know enough about manga to say, but this strikes me as the kind of name that a Japanese manga artist might invent... better than the very common Yoshida. Anway, rather than asking whether it's important enough for the lead, this is just a formula for Japanese names. If it has some currency in Japanese, which it seems to, then wouldn't it be useful for looking up? I don't see why we should make an exception and not include it. – Margin1522 (talk) 02:43, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
- I've also always assumed that Yashida was initially an error (as an aside, in Wolverine #60 (1992), the kanji for Mariko Yashida are given as 吉田真理子). No kanji are given in the original story in which he appears, but 矢志田 is definitely used in the Japanese language versions of The Wolverine and the Wolverine anime. I think I've seen it in the comics as well, but there's no easy way of checking that. Whatever it's origin, it certainly seems to be the canonical writing of the name now. --Cckerberos (talk) 14:47, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
- Yeah, but is it worth mentioning in the lead? The reason we do this for legit Japanese topics is because the actual Japanese names of those topics are basic information not requiring sources and are aguably the most important information for a sizeable portion of our readership, who aren't using Wikipedia as their primary source of information but as a starting point, the Japanese name usually being more searchable than a romanization. Neither of these applies to articles on characters in non-Japanese media. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 20:52, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
- The kanji are considered canon now. I'm not seeing anyone else calling for their removal. The character is Japanese, this is their Japanese name...I think it's time to find another battle to fight, Hijiri. There's no valid reason to remove the kanji from the lead. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 21:14, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
- Well, I don't see it as a battle, and I don't much care about the issue itself beyond the WP:V problem it presents of obscure, non-basic information appearing in the lead but not the body without a citation.
- But yeah, you're right. These pop culture (and particularly fictional character bio) articles are not worth this much of my (or anyone else's) time. Apologies for the hassle.
- Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 22:03, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
- The kanji are considered canon now. I'm not seeing anyone else calling for their removal. The character is Japanese, this is their Japanese name...I think it's time to find another battle to fight, Hijiri. There's no valid reason to remove the kanji from the lead. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 21:14, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
- Yeah, but is it worth mentioning in the lead? The reason we do this for legit Japanese topics is because the actual Japanese names of those topics are basic information not requiring sources and are aguably the most important information for a sizeable portion of our readership, who aren't using Wikipedia as their primary source of information but as a starting point, the Japanese name usually being more searchable than a romanization. Neither of these applies to articles on characters in non-Japanese media. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 20:52, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
- Assuming we are still talking about Shingen Yashida, I highly doubt they've used it since the character's introduction. Nothing in our articles on either Claremont or Miller imply they read Japanese, or are even familiar with kanji, let alone enough to create a realistic Japanese rendition of their made up Japanese name, and what I have seen of Marvel comics in the 1980s that include "Japanese text" mostly "vaguely oriental-looking" gibberish, which means the kanji were retroactively given to the character by someone. That's why I requested a source on that particular page. But I feel like in general it's just a quasi-interesting piece of trivia, not like most actual Japanese topics where the Japanese spelling of the name is arguably the most important thing about most of them and is integral to the lead. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 22:29, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
- Well, for the Japanese character, it is the real one. It seems they've used it since the character was introduced (as far as I can tell), so I don't see a problem. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 22:09, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
- Oh, I know, but I mean in the lead like in that article I linked. From where I sit it seems to give the impression that it's a "Japanese topic" and the "real" name is the Japanese one. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 13:02, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
Same object articles
editHallo en.wiki users. I found same object articles on en.wiki.
However, I can't speak English. I will leave the rest up to you.--Batholith (talk) 09:41, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
I temporarily added {{Duplication}} template to both of the articles. I guess one should be merged to the other according to WP:MERGE, but I don't know how to do it in detail in enwiki...--DFT B3LYP (talk) 11:10, 13 December 2017 (UTC)I've suggested merger proposal at Talk:Mount Hiuchigatake. --DFT B3LYP (talk) 12:21, 13 December 2017 (UTC)- What does the MOS say about the article name for Japanese mountains? Should it be Mount Hichigatake, or Mount Hiuchi or just Hiuchigatake? Also I noted that there is Mount Hiuchi, which is about another mountain. Might be necessary to distinguish between them. bamse (talk) 15:22, 15 December 2017 (UTC)
- Well, at present that's the very argument at the dicussion of Talk:Mount Hiuchigatake. WP:MOS-JA seems to say nothing about mountains, but to follow the usage of WP:MOS-JA#Islands "Hiuchigatake" (or "Mount Hiuchigatake") may be better than "Hiuchi" (or "Mount Hiuchi") since "-ga-take" is inseparable. If possible, why don't you join the discussion? Thank you. --DFT B3LYP (talk) 16:16, 15 December 2017 (UTC) corrent my comment --DFT B3LYP (talk) 16:32, 15 December 2017 (UTC)
- What does the MOS say about the article name for Japanese mountains? Should it be Mount Hichigatake, or Mount Hiuchi or just Hiuchigatake? Also I noted that there is Mount Hiuchi, which is about another mountain. Might be necessary to distinguish between them. bamse (talk) 15:22, 15 December 2017 (UTC)