4meter4

Hello, welcome to my talk page!

If you want to leave a message, please do it at the bottom, as a new section, for better formatting. You can do that by simply pressing the plus sign (+) or "new section" on the top of this page. And don't forget to sign your messages with four tildes, like this: ~~~~

Attention: I prefer to keep discussions unfragmented. If you leave a comment for me here, I will most likely respond to it on this same page—my talk page—as an effort to keep the entire conversation in one place. By the same token, if I leave a comment on your talk page, please respond to it there. Remember, we can use our watchlist and topic subscriptions to keep track of when responses are made. At the same time, feel free to send an alert to me on this page about a comment you have left elsewhere.

Thank you!

DYK for Gerlin Bean

On 19 July 2022, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Gerlin Bean, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that activist Gerlin Bean co-founded the Organisation of Women of African and Asian Descent in 1978, an event described as "a watershed in the history of Black women's rights activism"? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Gerlin Bean. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Gerlin Bean), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (i.e., 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to the statistics page. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

— Maile (talk) 12:03, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

A cup of tea for you!

AfD is just not the same without you, but here is some tea while we await your return, with best wishes for your health and healing. Beccaynr (talk) 01:34, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

Joanna Simon banner

Hi. Thank you for the edit summary note on Talk:Joanna Simon (mezzo-soprano). As far as I see it, that banner is indeed a WikiProject banner, it's just customised. The default in WP:RATER is for such banners to be included in the banner shell when there are 3 or more present, and hence I just allow it to semi-automatically do that when I use it. I do intend to continue this practice on other pages until there is consensus not to, but don't intend to do it again on this particular article. I've also left a reply at Template talk:WIR#Inside or outside the banner shell?. Thanks. -Kj cheetham (talk) 10:11, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

WP:INTDABLINK

When adding intentional disambiguation links to pages like Thomas Paul, please remember to observe WP:INTDABLINK. Cheers! BD2412 T 06:52, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

"Opera eroica" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Opera eroica and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 October 11#Opera eroica until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. Steel1943 (talk) 19:54, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

4meter, you seem to have put this on the project rather than talk page. Aza24 (talk) 20:23, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

Oops. Editing in mobile is never ideal....4meter4 (talk) 21:14, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

AfD: Lost Mysteries

Sorry, 4meter4, I had just started typing a reply to your comment, when I became aware that the AfD was closed. I wanted to ask you about what you meant by "a source analysis from the nominator". I did state below StarTrekker's comment that I directly visited the websites sourced for the citations, and I gave my observation of what I found. What exactly were you asking of me beyond that? — CJDOS, Sheridan, OR (talk) 05:28, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

• CJDOS A source analysis actually looks at each source individually and evaluates it in relation to the policy language at WP:SIGCOV. Rather than generalizing, it actually specifically places each source against policy. Your comments were too vague, and I think you mistook some ezines with editorial oversight for self published blogs but it was hard to tell because you never named specific sources in your generalized reaction to the sources. For an example of a source analysis, see the table I created at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Albanian Helsinki Committee.4meter4 (talk) 05:53, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

Thank you; this is what I was looking for. I will make a note of this as a good tool for future use. — CJDOS, Sheridan, OR (talk) 06:21, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

ANI on Keith Irvine

Looks like you created a section for Keith Irvine but left no info on what the issue was? RickinBaltimore (talk) 19:50, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

See my comment there. I had typed a note, but it oddly didn’t show up.4meter4 (talk) 19:52, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

I saw that, no worries! RickinBaltimore (talk) 19:53, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

ITN recognition for Joanna Simon (mezzo-soprano)

On 21 October 2022, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article Joanna Simon (mezzo-soprano), which you nominated and updated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page. Stephen 21:56, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

ArbCom 2022 Elections voter message

Hello! Voting in the 2022 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on Monday, 12 December 2022. All eligible users are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

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Nizami Ganjavi

Hello 4meter4. I'm not gonna argue with you but I would like to let you know my thoughts behind this; that comment is nothing but a nationalistic rant, using flawed logic and opposing the long established consensus in scholarship. The user account of this IP has a history of such stuff. Not to mention these type of comments appear occasionally in these type of articles, thanks to stuff like this [1]. Best. HistoryofIran (talk) 22:52, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

@HistoryofIran I completely understand your frustration, but at the same time we need to protect our talk pages as spaces where editors can raise issues without fear of having conversations censored. The comment made by the subject was perfectly permissible per our policies at Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines. If there was some sort of topic ban (see WP:TBAN) imposed by WP:ANI or WP:ARBCOM, removing the topic thread would have been justifiable, but currently no such topic ban is in place.4meter4 (talk) 23:40, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

Happy holidays

Fairies dangling on and frolicking around flowers	Seasons greetings!
	Wishing you joyous holiday spirits, 4meter4! and best wishes for the New Year	Illustration of dancing fairies, 1914, taken from the poem “A Spell for a Fairy,” by Alfred Noyes

Beccaynr (talk) 03:40, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

• Beccaynr What a lovely message. I hope you are having a restful and enjoyable holiday season. Have a very happy New Year!4meter4 (talk) 19:00, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

Happy Christmas, 4meter4

May you have a very Happy Christmas ...

and a safe New Year filled with peace, joy, and beautiful music.

Best wishes, Voceditenore (talk) 09:53, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Voceditenore, I hope you had a very Happy Christmas and that this coming year brings many enriching adventures. I have missed seeing you around at WP:WikiProject Opera. I hope you will find more time to collaborate with us this year as your work is always appreciated. With affection.4meter4 (talk) 18:59, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

December music

December songs

happy new year

We sang Charpentier's delightful Messe de minuit pour Noël today, which was on DYK yesterday, - a first for me, pictured, - thank you for reason in the Debussy discussion, and sorry if I got a bit nervous yesterday. - Enjoy the season! -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:43, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

Today, pictured, the soprano of our choral concert of the year. More in the context: User talk:Gerda Arendt#DYK for Talia Or in case of interest. It looks like I can't contribute more opera singers to DYK. Perhaps you could? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:21, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

• Gerda Arendt Thank you for the lovely holiday messages. I hope you had a happy Christmas and that the coming year is full of joyful and enriching experiences. It's been a while since I have submitted any work to DYK. Lately I have been dedicating myself to Wikipedia:Music encyclopedia topics. Best.4meter4 (talk) 18:55, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

Whoops

Hello!

I just wanted to apologize for a message I mistakenly replied to, as I somehow got a notification for it automatically assumed it was on mine! Anyways, happy holidays, and sorry again :) ~ Eejit43 (talk) 04:37, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

No worries. Merry Christmas!4meter4 (talk) 04:38, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

Happy New Year, 4meter4!

Happy New Year!

4meter4,
Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia. See this for background context.
— Moops ^⋠T⋡ 22:06, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

   Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.

— Moops ^⋠T⋡ 22:06, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

January songs

happy new year

Repeating musical wishes! - I'm taking a break from DYK, for more quality articles. Today's featured article is Osbert Parsley, not by me but Amitchell125 where I commented, including the beginning of my songs. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:16, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

I'm on vacation, - click on songs! I tell my own stories now, instead of relying on DYK. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:04, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

Background: User talk:Storye book#Elena Manistina, or: why Tchaikovsky's The Enchantress isn't on the Main page. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:08, 27 January 2023 (UTC)

back from vacation - Melitta Muszely died, RIP --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:58, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

Nomination of Krakoa for deletion.

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Krakoa is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Krakoa (3rd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article until the discussion has finished.

Merry Christmas, 4Meter4

May you have very Happy Holidays ...

and a safe New Year filled with peace, joy, and beautiful music.

Best wishes, Voceditenore (talk) 12:04, 25 December 2023 (UTC)

Si Jenks

Jenks in The Rider of the Law (1935)

Hi @4meter4:, could you please create an article for American actor Si Jenks who had starring roles in films such as The Rider of the Law, Oregon Trail, The Cowboy Star, Zorro's Black Whip, The Great Train Robbery and has already an article in the French Wikipedia? 190.219.168.53 (talk) 07:35, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

ITN recognition for José Evangelista

On 15 January 2023, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article José Evangelista, which you had created back in 2010. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page. PFHLai (talk) 17:28, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

ITN recognition for Virginia Zeani

On 24 March 2023, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article Virginia Zeani, which you updated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page. Spencer^T•C 17:02, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

Tom Westman

I see you closed Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tom Westman (2nd nomination) as "keep". Have you reconsidered yet? I just wondered whether your closure was correct. From reading the discussion, I thought "delete" and "keep" votes were close. I just hope your close wasn't a supervote, was it? George Ho (talk) 20:46, 27 March 2023 (UTC)

Almost forgot: why do you think the discussion was relisted twice? --George Ho (talk) 20:50, 27 March 2023 (UTC)

I think there was a clear shift in consensus supporting keeping the article after the sources provided by Sportsfan. There’s a stronger policy based argument on the keep side that is supported with evidence. Best.4meter4 (talk) 02:27, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

How were Sportsfan's arguments convincing? I mean, what about my replies to Sportsfan? George Ho (talk) 03:43, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

The evidence presented by sportsman demonstrated that the subject was covered for more than one event and across a WP:SUSTAINED period of time which essentially discredited the WP:BLP1E argument and provided evidence the subject passes WP:BASIC. Other commenters also stated similar opinions in the AFD; enough that it appears to be the consensus view. This is what I said in my close and you aren’t going to get a different opinion here. See WP:STICK.4meter4 (talk) 15:16, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

Hey User:4meter4, I also wanted to comment of your close on Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tom Westman (2nd nomination). In my opinion, this is a WP:BADNAC, because the discussion was controversial (many participants, multiple relists). Let admins take the heat for closing these type of discussions! Thanks, Suriname0 (talk) 22:11, 27 March 2023 (UTC)

Perhaps. Although I doubt an admin would come to a different conclusion in their close. The only other viable close option would be no consensus which would end in the same result (ie no deletion or redirect). There clearly was not enough support for a delete or a redirect close by both a vote count and the strength of the arguments. The arguments for deletion/redirect was greatly weakened by the sourcing evidence demonstrating WP:SUSTAINED coverage across more than one event that would pass WP:GNG/WP:BASIC. Feel free to take it to deletion review. Best.4meter4 (talk) 02:27, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

The first relisting occurred due to !keep votes earlier then not being convincing enough. One of later !keep votes after second relisting I sometimes have issues with only because I've not seen them prove significance of Westman's HvV gameplay. How about "no consensus" then? That way, I don't have to take this to DRV. George Ho (talk) 07:15, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

Nearly forgot: If you change to "no consensus", can you alter your rationale as well? George Ho (talk) 11:53, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

I am not altering the close as I believe I accurately summarized community consensus as keep based on both majority input and the strength of the arguments. You may take this to WP:DRV to seek a different outcome.4meter4 (talk) 14:57, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

Took the AFD discussion to Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2023 March 28. George Ho (talk) 17:37, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

March thanks

March songs

my story today

thank you for what you did for La fanciulla! - sharing impressions from vacation on Madeira 20-30 March, pics now at 25 March with ups and downs and two cats --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:31, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

The Smerus I met is too intelligent to leave Wikipedia over one opera infobox. I imagine that Chopin hurt him more, and the obvious tendency. What makes me so sad is that there was a time when he accepted the compromise that Brian Boulton added to Chopin, as consensus. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:18, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

happy to see that Smerus has edited --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:14, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Portland Chamber Music Festival

The article Portland Chamber Music Festival has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Unsourced, no particular claims to notability.

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. User:Namiba 19:17, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for bringing this to my attention Namiba. I added sources for verification purposes; although I did not write any of the text currently in the article. The festival is regularly covered in New England based media. There are lots of reviews in Portland and Boston based media, so I don't think meeting WP:GNG is an issue. I suspect a coi editor may have written the overly promotional text currently in the article. You might check for copyright infringement on the text...4meter4 (talk) 22:06, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

(talk page stalker)I'm afraid the last two paragraphs were copied verbatim from the organization's history page, according to Earwig. I've therefore removed them. Thanks for adding sources 4meter4. Clearly notable topic. 78.26 _{(spin me / revolutions)} 01:02, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

Maria Giustina Turcotti

Is [2] any use to you? Could also get a higher-resolution fat version, but it seems... A little like encouraging her critics. Adam Cuerden ^(talk)_{Has about 8.3% of all FPs. Currently celebrating his 600^th FP!} 13:40, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

@Adam Cuerden Thank you for another positive image. Sadly, most of the published scholarship on Turcotti is about her weight. Over half of her biographical entry in The New Grove Dictionary of Music and Musicians is focused on her size and the negative comments about her weight. That entry also failed to name a single opera she she performed in. There are also a good number of opera history texts with the Zanetti image which widely focus on Turcotti and her weight. In short, it’s the thing every academic publication on the singer has focused on. There’s also quite a lot of scholarship dedicated to even more nasty quotes that are weight related in critical reviews, as well as a number of devastatingly mean comments about her weight in private letters written by her colleagues and employers. A lot more has been written on this topic in academic books used in the article, and I really only provided the brief highlights. There are whole letters for example by Mingotti and Pirker which have been analyzed in scholarship to write about Turcotti and her career. I had to really dig to find other kinds of information on this person, and had to look to sources with basically cast listings of operas to find other materials because all of the biographical RS in academic publications were largely focused on her weight, and sadly not so much on her substantial contributions to 18th century opera in Italy. I am confident that no source but Wikipedia has such a flattering and positive portrait of the singer, as this at least had pulled together sources to mention her appearances in original opera productions by important composers; something academic biographical entries on the singer have largely overlooked.4meter4 (talk) 17:20, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

Hi 4meter4, in your good and welcome article on Turcotti you write she was a “gifted singer of coloratura”, but this styling doesn't seem very pertinent to me. In their article on Turcotti in The New Grove Dictionary of Opera, Dennis Libby and Carlo Vitali state that “she seems to have been primarily a dramatic singer in a mostly syllabic style (range approximately b♭ to g’’), without much brilliance or bravura”, although she was also able to master elaborate coloratura (as well as all major singers in the Eighteenth Century).
In fact, I often found her name associated with Vittoria Tesi, another great singer-actress of the first part of the century, also coming from Florence and not primarily excelling in coloratura as well. The first time I heard her name was at a 1985 wonderful revival of Pergolesi’s Adriano in Siria, where she had created the prima donna role of Emirena. This role is certainly not an acrobatic and flamboyant one and the two most skilled coloratura singers in the cast, Mariella Devia and Daniela Dessì, took on two other roles that are much more demanding in terms of coloratura, Farnaspe and Sabina.
I leave it to your appreciation whether or not to edit the article.--Jeanambr (talk) 17:39, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
PS: I can't help but get the unsourced impression that the singer depicted in the first drawing might not be Maria Giustina Turcotti.

@Jeanambr Yes I am familiar with the Libby quote which I think was a potentially ill conceived assessment because it was based on an incomplete picture of Turcotti's career. At the time Libby wrote that article only a small amount of her repertoire was is evidence. The trouble with the scholarship as written at present on Turcotti is nobody has really looked at all her repertoire in its entirety, and honestly only recently have scholars writing on Venetian opera actually located and catalogued a significant number of operas that she performed in (as in the last two to fifteen years); hence why my article was able to include many more opera roles than in the Grove publications (Libby's article is 31 years old now and is significantly outdated in relation to the recent published scholarship). Selfridge-Field (2007) and Over and Nieden (2021) have provided a much larger picture of her repertoire in Italy than was previously known (but without any analysis in terms of Turcotti's vocal range/abilities), and for this reason, I am hesitant to trust any scholarly assessment that hasn't taken a look at the many previously unknown opera roles in Turcotti's performance repertoire which are now in evidence. This would require looking at recently found opera scores that have been largely neglected in academic writing as well as performance. I also note, that based on reviews and letters in Over and Nieden, I question the previously held argument that Turcotti was having a vocal decline which ended her career in Italy (which Libby argues based on what evidence?). Reviews of her later years in Italy seemed to remain positive of her singing, and largely were negative about her appearance and stage deportment due to her weight gain. I sincerely doubt that Mingotti and the wealthy Bayreuth Court, who could have their pick of top notch talent, would have kept her on if she wasn't in fine vocal form; particularly as her voice seems to have been her only major asset as an entertainer. Additionally, no researcher has looked at her rep in Germany, and a researcher could probably dig up her opera roles in her late career. In short, this is an area where a music historian/musicologist could do some new valuable work, and potentially have something new to say on Turcotti's singing and her unusually long career. Best.4meter4 (talk) 05:15, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

May songs

my story today

Chiming in: I admire what you did to get her recognized as a performer! - Born OTD: another stage artist, Cathinka Buchwieser, at a time when actress and opera performer wasn't distinguished, and both dubious in society. If I was a researcher I'd look into Turcotti's German repertoire. If you find something and just want help with translation or language clarification, call me! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:42, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

New topic: sadly Javier Álvarez (composer) died, whose article you began. Can you help with referencing? I'll do some, but Spanish isn't a language I speak (besides menu reading in restaurants). Perhaps SusunW can help (again), even if this is a man. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:57, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

• Hip deep with real life right now, but still trying to get in a bit of editing. If you can't find another Spanish speaker, I'm glad to help Gerda Arendt, but won't guarantee that I can respond immediately, or quickly. SusunW (talk) 15:05, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

@4meter4 I completely agree with you about the shortcomings and gaps in the historical research on the figure of Turcotti, and I fully share Gerda's appreciation of your article, which I have even half a mind to translate, sooner or later, into Italian. However, I cannot identify which historiographical acquisitions after Croll and Vitali allow Turcotti to be styled a “singer of coloratura” (instead of a dramatic one), considering that their Grove article already stated: “evidence from arias written by G.B. Pescetti and Francesco Corselli, however, shows that she could master elaborate coloratura, rhythmically complex divisions and wide pitch leaps”. Cheers. Jeanambr (talk) 08:39, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

DYK for Carolina White

On 26 April 2023, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Carolina White, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that soprano Carolina White performed the title role in the United States premiere of Il segreto di Susanna at the Metropolitan Opera in 1911? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Carolina White. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Carolina White), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Aoidh (talk) 12:03, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

J. Leubrie Hill

I wasn't sure if this subject or the shows they were involved in would interest you, but I thiught I'd run it by you in any case. Thanks for all your great work. Take care. FloridaArmy (talk) 23:59, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

Category:Deal, New Jersey in fiction?

Does Category:Deal, New Jersey in fiction show enough potential for growth to merit a category of its own? Alansohn (talk) 02:47, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

It has some potential for growth. The Sopranos had some episodes set partly in Deal, New Jersey for example. There may be other content in film and literature. Ultimately cats fitting into larger category trees are useful in my opinion. Not every category needs to be large.4meter4 (talk) 14:47, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

DYK for Maria Giustina Turcotti

On 23 May 2023, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Maria Giustina Turcotti, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that according to one critic, Italian opera singer Maria Giustina Turcotti "sang very well but was fat to the point of deformity"? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Maria Giustina Turcotti. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Maria Giustina Turcotti), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

—Kusma (talk) 00:02, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

Thomas Blades de Walden

See this. -- Ssilvers (talk) 03:12, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

Ssilvers what am I looking for?4meter4 (talk) 03:14, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

"de Walden" rather than DeWalden or De Walden". -- Ssilvers (talk) 04:53, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

Caroline and Bain

Hi 4meter4, a bit more info on my talk page added by another WP editor. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 22:33, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

Category:Novels set in deserts has been nominated for deletion

Category:Novels set in deserts has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Sandstein 05:52, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

Similar deletion discussion to Category:Novels set in deserts

You may be interested in a similar (though admittedly not identical) category deletion discussion to the Cat:Novels_set_in_deserts one going on about Category:Novels set in fictional villages. I realize you may not share my opinion, but I thought I'd loop you in just the same. — the Man in Question (in question) 21:14, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

ITN notice

On 31 May 2023, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article Javier Álvarez (composer), which you created. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page. Schwede66 22:44, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Template for CFD Notices

Hi 4meter4, When notify a WikiProject about a category for discussion, you may want to use the neutral template located right here. That can help avoid even the appearance of Wikipedia:Canvassing. - RevelationDirect (talk) 03:57, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

RevelationDirect Thank you for making me aware of the template. That said, the notices I placed were neutrally worded with a clear indication that all opinions were welcome, and without advocating for one side or the other in the notice. They were fine per WP:APPNOTE. Best.4meter4 (talk) 05:47, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

I honestly initially read the part about this setting a precedent as a call to arms but I've reread after looking at the conversations at User talk:Qwerfjkl. As a practical matter, your iVote likely moves it to "no consensus" by itself becaue participation at CFD is so low. (I think that's caused by the categories not showing in the mobile view, which is what most readers use now.) I'll remove the Template:Notavote that I added.

Also, thrilled to see you and another editor participated on some of the other nominations. Maybe CFD needs a call to arms! - RevelationDirect (talk) 10:50, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

@RevelationDirect Yes I think category deletion participation is so low because most editors do not have categories on their watch list. I'm almost always made aware of pertinent category deletion discussions when I see the bot removing a recently deleted category; at which point it's too late to participate and I am often genuinely perturbed but feel powerless to do anything about it. Case in point would be the Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 May 28#Category:Governor General's Performing Arts Award winners; which I would also like re-opened. This is a common experience on wikipedia. I think the notification process needs a complete overhaul. Namely, if a cat is up for a move or deletion; notices should be placed not only on the category page but every single article contained in that category. Bots delete and remove categories for us; so they could also be designed to place notices when a cat is up for deletion. That would get the attention of editors writing in the content area and would inevitably create a better pool of commenting editors with experience in a relevant content area. In general, I find category deletion discussions often have bad outcomes because the editors involved don't know the subject matter well enough to make the right choice.4meter4 (talk) 14:08, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

I really like that idea about the notices, at least as an option you could to turn on! - RevelationDirect (talk) 14:54, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Jochen Breiholz

The article Jochen Breiholz has been proposed for deletion because it appears to have no references. Under Wikipedia policy, this biography of a living person will be deleted after seven days unless it has at least one reference to a reliable source that directly supports material in the article.

If you created the article, please don't be offended. Instead, consider improving the article. For help on inserting references, see Referencing for beginners, or ask at the help desk. Once you have provided at least one reliable source, you may remove the {{prod blp/dated}} tag. Please do not remove the tag unless the article is sourced. If you cannot provide such a source within seven days, the article may be deleted, but you can request that it be undeleted when you are ready to add one. jlwoodwa (talk) 20:35, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

Hello!

Hi, 4meter4,

I was looking at one AFD to close and looked at a previous AFD that was on the same article that you had proposed two years ago. And I realized that I use to see you participate in AFDs much more than I do now. Did you get burned out? Or did your editing interests just take you elsewhere on the project? I valued your contributions and we have a shortage of regular thoughtful participants in deletion discussions (I mean, we have some but we could use many, many more) and just thought I'd check in with you.

Hope all is well with you and you had a good summer. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 00:50, 30 August 2023 (UTC) @Liz

Thank you for the kind message Liz. I had a wonderful summer, and I hope you had a great one as well. I've always appreciated how hard you work at AFD. Thank you for your service to the encyclopedia. As for me, AFD, and my time of wikipedia...

Of late I have been happily creating new content. AFD can be a stressful place to contribute, and I decided to work elsewhere after several contentious AFDs were closed with a consensus that was not policy based. In general, policies at AFD are inconsistently implemented by closing admins; in particular the need to demonstrate WP:SIGCOV. Far too often AFDs are closed by majority vote rather than by notability policy; and in general "no consensus" is too liberally applied by admins who don't want to to have to deal with blowback from implementing notability policy as written. It doesn't help that DRV decisions are often derived by vote count as opposed to the strength of policy arguments, so in general admins aren't willing to implement community policies if the majority vote in a given AFD isn't there to support it. As a result, WP:MUSTBESOURCES arguments more often than not win; even though we know this isn't a valid or winning argument. I am not ok with that, and find it aggravating when GNG is ignored. I've also seen several AFDs close where the subject was not addressed directly and in detail in any one source, and the article was essentially built through an original synthesis of materials that were tangential to the subject. While overall I think AFD gets its right more often than wrong, I stepped away from AFD for my own inner peace. Best. 4meter4 (talk) 03:11, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

DYK for Vera Curtis

On 29 September 2023, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Vera Curtis, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that soprano Vera Curtis was the first singer trained exclusively in the United States to perform with the Metropolitan Opera? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Vera Curtis. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Vera Curtis), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

 — Amakuru (talk) 00:02, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

Category:New-York Tribune personnel has been nominated for merging

Category:New-York Tribune personnel has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Dennis C. Abrams (talk) 22:15, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

Appreciate

I would appreciate it if you stop hurling your insults. I have no intention of going to ANI over your refusal to retract your PAs - I remembered you from seeing you around the project and thought of you as a level headed editor. I see I was wrong and I will avoid you on the project. Please stop shitting on the nomination template with your wrong-headed attacks. Lightburst (talk) 04:35, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

I am sorry that you feel that you are being personally attacked, that is not my intention. I am unable to strike my comments because they are pertinent to the DYK review process in reviewing your request for censorship. I hope that we can work together congenially in the future even though we may have a difference of opinion in this particular matter. In general, I appreciate the contributions you have made to the encyclopedia and at DYK outside of this incident. Have a great day.4meter4 (talk) 19:35, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

October thanks

October songs

my story today

Thank you for your voice of reason in the deletion discussion for the Israeli peace song. - Today, my (daily) story is a place that inspired me, musings if you have time. My corner for memory and music has today a juxtaposition of what our local church choirs offer. -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:30, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt Happy to be of assistance. Thank you for creating an interesting article on a song I was not familiar with. I enjoyed listening to recordings and researching the song while commenting at the AFD.4meter4 (talk) 12:43, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

I met it at a wedding in Germany, with the father of the bride and some guests from Israel. Peace! It's in prep for a DYK on 2 Nov. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:50, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

Towards the end of the month, I thought of Brian Bouldton, and his ways to compromise, - with musings about peace there, - feel free to join. Hevenu shalom aleichem. Today is Reformation Day, and I believe that reformation is a work in progress. -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:37, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Original Barnstar
	Thank you for expanding and referencing the article on the Jewish/Israeli folk song Hevenu shalom aleichem! gidonb (talk) 14:15, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

DYK for Hevenu shalom aleichem

On 2 November 2023, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Hevenu shalom aleichem, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that after signing the Camp David Accords in 1978, Prime Minister Menachem Begin ended a speech with a desire to sing the peace song "Hevenu shalom aleichem" with the people of Israel? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Hevenu shalom aleichem. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Hevenu shalom aleichem), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 00:02, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

November songs

my story today · music

Thank you for what you put into the peace song, making it survive, - my story today. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:32, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

I added some images from Aachen. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:44, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for another theatre! - I proudly remember having sung in an oratorio premiere seven years ago OTD. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:10, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

Today I have three items on the Main page today, almost too much of a good thing! Bach's amazing cantata with the unusual scale, first performed 300 years ago OTD, the nun for the prostitutes, and Schumann's wedding gift for Clara. Working on Ryland Davies, - perhaps you can add? I'll get over more detail from the GLS tomorrow. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:50, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

Davies looks much better. Today is St. Martin's Day, which stands for sharing. Thank you for sharing music! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:39, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

User Talk:Gerda Arendt#Mozart Requiem --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:03, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

DYK for Guglielmo Zuelli

On 3 November 2023, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Guglielmo Zuelli, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that composer Guglielmo Zuelli (pictured), a former director of the Palermo Conservatory, spent time in prison before the age of eight? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Guglielmo Zuelli. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Guglielmo Zuelli), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 00:02, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

DYK for Palermo Conservatory

On 3 November 2023, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Palermo Conservatory, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that composer Guglielmo Zuelli (pictured), a former director of the Palermo Conservatory, spent time in prison before the age of eight? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Guglielmo Zuelli. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Palermo Conservatory), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 00:02, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

Just wanted to echo what others are saying about how great your hook is, and how it instantly drew me to the article. Fantastic work. Viriditas (talk) 18:12, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

Thank you Viriditas for the kind words.4meter4 (talk) 13:44, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Ballets by topic has been nominated for merging

Category:Ballets by topic has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 03:30, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Academic journals established in 1851

A tag has been placed on Category:Academic journals established in 1851 indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and removing the speedy deletion tag. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:04, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Musicals set on fictional moons has been nominated for merging

Category:Musicals set on fictional moons has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 13:53, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Outer space in fiction has been nominated for deletion

Category:Outer space in fiction has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 15:48, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Summary

Do you still want to try to workshop a summary? Earlier I was thinking we'd messed up the procedure which might just result in receiving only gripes for the mess up or even a premature closure as malformed/misplaced, but it looks like that is not the case. If you are still interested I should have some uninterrupted time in 6 hours or so, actually I can pop in and out now, I would just prefer to work with less interruptions. If not that is ok too, since it does look like the perfect adherence to protocol was less important here then I had anticipated. TBH, I have never fully understood the interplay between procedural policies/practices and the not bureaucracy conceptual ideation. 2601:5CC:8300:A7F0:1898:F371:A61F:7119 (talk) 17:33, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

I don't think that a summary is really worth it as there has really only been a conversation between you, I, and one admin. If we had more participants, it might be worth documenting some sort of consensus but with so few people involved it really doesn't seem like a useful exercise. I think its pretty clear from the response at ANI that you are following what is considered normal process, but I also think that process is counter-intuitive when reading the policy page at WP:Edit Wars. I do think this thing highlights a need to re-examine the language at WP:Edit Wars and add some clarifying statements on proper process one way or the other (depending on what the community decides). I personally would like to see a more tightened policy which requires an attempt at dialogue on the talk page of the disputed arcticle prior to the issue of a warning. We should at least make an attempt at engaging in a cordial way through the WP:TALKDONTREVERT and WP:DISCUSSCONSENSUS process prior to moving to a warning banner as a means of WP:AGF and giving someone a chance to do the right thing in community space. Best.4meter4 (talk) 17:44, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

My suggestion is that you workshop an amendment to policy at WP:VPI, and then start an RFC at WP:VPP. At least if you want to follow procedure to the t. But as recent experience shows sometimes close adherence to procedure turns out to be unnecessary, so I guess you could always just try to launch on RFC on the policy talk page, and see what happens. 2601:5CC:8300:A7F0:1898:F371:A61F:7119 (talk) 18:00, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Honestly I am not sure I want to take on a policy discussion of that magnitude. That takes a certain amount of time and engagement in non-article space which is not really how I want to spend my time. I much prefer to be working on content creation and/or article improvement.4meter4 (talk) 18:08, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Works set on the moon has been nominated for merging

Category:Works set on the moon has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 14:38, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

In appreciation

		The Barnstar of Diplomacy
		With thanks for your civility, good faith and willingness to do your own research at Talk:Tale of the Moon Cuckoo; I believe we've reached a solution agreeable to all. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 23:32, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Children's books set in airports has been nominated for merging

Category:Children's books set in airports has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 21:31, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Convents in fiction has been nominated for merging

Category:Convents in fiction has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 00:59, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

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ITN recognition for Douglas Ahlstedt

On 30 November 2023, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article Douglas Ahlstedt, which you created. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page. PFHLai (talk) 09:14, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

December songs

story · music

Thank you for the article! - Today, I managed to updated my images to Paris (trip begun on 29 Nov) with a visit to the Palais Garnier, - to match the story of Medea Amiranashvili, - don't miss listening to her expressive voice. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:37, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

My story today is about Michael Robinson, - it's an honour to have known him. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:34, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

Today, I have a special story to tell, of the works of a musician born 300 years ago. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:19, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

Lee Orean Smith

Lee Orean Smith's father was the musical director of a theatre orchestra.

You wrote this in Lee Orean Smith. Just curious on where the source about this is. I'm sort of researching about composers like him. Komitsuki (talk) 04:35, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

See the cited source. The entire paragraph is cited to Rehrig, William H.; Bierley, Paul E. (1991). "Lee Orean Smith". The Heritage Encyclopedia of Band Music: Composers and Their Music, Volume II. Integrity Press. ISBN 9780918048080. I had a physical copy of the book but you can access the book online in its updated version (other authors have since expanded the encyclopedia in its online form) through subscription at https://www.acbands.org/hebm There is also a blog which talks about his father making a living as a pharmacist while leading a local orchestra https://blog.wabash.edu/dearoldwabash/2019/09/30/tin-pan-alley-alum/ (I left this out as it is a blog) Rehrig and Bierley describe the orchestra as a theatre orchestra. If I remember rightly there is also an interview in Metronome magazine from September 1922 in which Smith relates details about training as a musician under his father and playing in theatre orchestras. I also left this out because it was not an independent source. Best.4meter4 (talk) 06:45, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

Thank you very much. Komitsuki (talk) 04:08, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

DYK nomination of William Carter (composer)

Hello! Your submission of William Carter (composer) at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) at your nomination's entry and respond there at your earliest convenience. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! BlueMoonset (talk) 20:19, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

Due to a lack of response, this is being marked for closure. If you wish to continue the nomination, please respond immediately. Thank you very much. BlueMoonset (talk) 21:45, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

Invitation

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Category:Orphanages in fiction has been nominated for merging

Category:Orphanages in fiction has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 06:47, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Category:Casinos in fiction has been nominated for deletion

Category:Casinos in fiction has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 06:58, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

CfD nomination at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 December 18 § Category:Plays set in zoos

A category or categories you have created have been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 December 18 § Category:Plays set in zoos on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 07:06, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Category:Watermills in fiction has been nominated for deletion

Category:Watermills in fiction has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 07:36, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

CfD nomination at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 December 18 § X in fiction III

A category or categories you have created have been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 December 18 § X in fiction III on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 07:41, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

CfD nomination at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 December 21 § Works by setting

A category or categories you have created have been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 December 21 § Works by setting on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 06:40, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

Category:Unidentified flying objects in fiction has been nominated for renaming

Category:Unidentified flying objects in fiction has been nominated for renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 18:04, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

CfD nomination at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 December 22 § X in fiction XIII

A category or categories you have created have been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 December 22 § X in fiction XIII on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 18:31, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

Merry Christmas

~ ~ ~ Merry Christmas! ~ ~ ~

Hello 4meter4: Enjoy the holiday season and winter solstice if it's occurring in your area of the world, and thanks for your work to maintain, improve and expand Wikipedia. Cheers, --Dustfreeworld (talk) 13:24, 25 December 2023 (UTC)

Seasons Greetings

Merry Christmas, 4meter4! Wishing you Season's Greetings and a Happy Winter Solstice! As the year comes to a close, I want to express my appreciation for your dedicated efforts on Wikipedia and extend heartfelt thanks for your assistance throughout the years. May the holiday season bring you and your loved ones abundant joy, good health, and prosperity.

RV (talk) 17:27, 25 December 2023 (UTC)

Category:Novellas set in schools has been nominated for deletion

Category:Novellas set in schools has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Gjs238 (talk) 12:17, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

Season's greetings

~ ~ ~ Merry Christmas! ~ ~ ~

Hello 4meter4: Enjoy the holiday season and winter solstice if it's occurring in your area of the world, and thanks for your work to maintain, improve and expand Wikipedia. Cheers, Spread the love; use {{subst:User:Dustfreeworld/Xmas1}} to send this message.

CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 19:53, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

Happy New Year!

	Happy New Year!
	Hello 4meter4: Did you know ... that back in 1885, Wikipedia editors wrote Good Articles with axes, hammers and chisels? Thank you for your contributions to this encyclopedia using 21st century technology. I hope you don't get any unnecessary blisters. CAPTAIN RAJU(T) 22:18, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

Spread the WikiLove; use {{subst:Happy New Year elves}} to send this message

CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 22:18, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

Happy New Year, 4meter4!

Happy New Year!

4meter4,
Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia.
Abishe (talk) 14:24, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

   Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.

Abishe (talk) 14:24, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

2024

Die Zeit, die Tag und Jahre macht

Happy New Year

2024

Same location pictured as 2019. -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:29, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

I have a DYK on the Main page, but my story would be different, about Figaro, - this Figaro. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:49, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

On the Main page: the person who made the pictured festival possible --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:41, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Novellas by setting

A tag has been placed on Category:Novellas by setting indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and removing the speedy deletion tag. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 19:25, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

CfD nomination at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 January 6 § Category:Alumni by university or college in the United Kingdom

A category or categories you have created have been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 January 6 § Category:Alumni by university or college in the United Kingdom on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Qwerfjkltalk 17:44, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Hanne Fischer

The article Hanne Fischer has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Completely unreferenced BLP – and no indication of importance.

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 04:31, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

DYK for William Carter (composer)

On 14 January 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article William Carter (composer), which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that composer and conductor William Carter began a career as a professional organist at the age of nine? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/William Carter (composer). You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, William Carter (composer)), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Shubinator (talk) 06:24, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Category:Plays about gambling has been nominated for merging

Category:Plays about gambling has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether it complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 15:47, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Genoa Conservatory

On 21 January 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Genoa Conservatory, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that after Nazi Germany placed anti-aircraft batteries on the property of the Genoa Conservatory, the school moved into the Villa Saluzzo Serra (pictured) art museum to maintain the safety of its students? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Genoa Conservatory. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Genoa Conservatory), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

WaggersTALK 00:02, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Black Souls (play)

On 4 February 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Black Souls (play), which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Annie Nathan Meyer's Black Souls was one of the first "lynching dramas" created by a white woman? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Black Souls (play). You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Black Souls (play)), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

—Kusma (talk) 00:02, 4 February 2024 (UTC)

Draft:The Red Moon

I would be happy to have help with this draft if you're interested. FloridaArmy (talk) 13:14, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

@FloridaArmy I have some ongoing projects at the moment, but I'll take a look when I can.4meter4 (talk) 15:36, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

Draft:The Ham Tree

This is another draft on an interesting show that needs work. FloridaArmy (talk) 16:31, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

@FloridaArmy I have some ongoing projects at the moment, but I'll take a look when I can.4meter4 (talk) 20:00, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Bitcoin

Hi, As you valued Alexander Neumüller's writing, I thought you might be interested in his latest paper: "Simultaneously, we are exploring an emerging body of literature that sheds light on the potential positive externalities of cryptocurrency mining. While negative environmental externalities have been comparatively well studied, research on environmental and societal benefits is still scant. However, to present a balanced perspective, weighing both the negative and positive impacts of cryptocurrency mining is crucial. Therefore, we will increase our efforts to integrate bottom-up data that helps to refine our electricity mix estimates and further explore various facets, including the role of mining in the electric power system, the broader energy system, its potential in methane mitigation, and its function as an additional incentive or even catalyst for renewable energy infrastructure development." a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 23:09, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Category:Works about taxi drivers has been nominated for merging

Category:Works about taxi drivers has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether it complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Fuddle (talk) 14:10, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

DYK for James Light (director)

On 19 February 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article James Light (director), which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that James Light was threatened by the Ku Klux Klan when he staged a play with an interracial couple? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/James Light (director). You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, James Light (director)), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:02, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

March thanks

story · music · places

Thank you for expanding Cecelia Hall! I think you could try GA even. On Smetana's 200th birthday -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:03, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Rossini's Petite messe solennelle was premiered on 14 March 1864, - when I listen to the desolate Agnus Dei I think of Vami_IV. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:01, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

Vacation pics uploaded, at least the first day, - and Aribert Reimann remembered. I think of the theatre, but more people died, one mentioned on project opera. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:31, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

Next day, around Porto da Cruz, on Bach's birthday --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:47, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

I enjoy seeing Jean Schwartz pictured on the Main page today! - Johann Strauss Theater begun, - I trust that you can add some of the English sources you mentioned, because it's scarcely referenced in German. I wonder why Lord Piccolo isn't among the premieres. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:38, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your professional help for the conductor who is now on the Main page. I listen to Bach's St John Passion today, - 300 years after it was first performed. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:31, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

Draft:Jack Mills (music publisher)

Would you be aboe to help with this draft? FloridaArmy (talk) 08:17, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Lottie Williams (actress, born 1866)

On 16 March 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Lottie Williams (actress, born 1866), which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that the actress Lottie Williams was one of the cakewalk dancers depicted on the front cover of the sheet music for Scott Joplin's "Maple Leaf Rag" (pictured)? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Lottie Williams, actress born 1866. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Lottie Williams (actress, born 1866)), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Z1720 (talk) 00:02, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

DYK for The Red Moon (Johnson and Cole)

On 19 March 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article The Red Moon (Johnson and Cole), which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that The Red Moon (sheet music pictured) was the first Broadway show to depict alliances between African Americans and Native Americans? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/The Red Moon (Johnson and Cole). You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, The Red Moon (Johnson and Cole)), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

—Ganesha811 (talk) 00:02, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Cecelia Hall (mezzo-soprano)

On 23 March 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Cecelia Hall (mezzo-soprano), which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that American mezzo-soprano Cecelia Hall portrayed the lead male role in Mozart's Ascanio in Alba? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Cecelia Hall (mezzo-soprano). You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Cecelia Hall (mezzo-soprano)), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

WaggersTALK 00:03, 23 March 2024 (UTC) Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:42, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Kenneth Raisbeck

On 26 March 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Kenneth Raisbeck, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that despite falling out with novelist Thomas Wolfe, Kenneth Raisbeck was the basis for a character in Of Time and the River? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Kenneth Raisbeck. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Kenneth Raisbeck), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

♠PMC♠ (talk) 00:02, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Jean Schwartz

On 27 March 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Jean Schwartz, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Jean Schwartz and William Jerome (pictured) wrote more than 1,000 popular songs together? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Jean Schwartz. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Jean Schwartz), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

♠PMC♠ (talk) 00:02, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

DYK for The Sleeping Beauty and the Beast

On 27 March 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article The Sleeping Beauty and the Beast, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that composer Frederick Solomon adapted several British pantomimes into Broadway musicals, including The Sleeping Beauty and the Beast (sheet music pictured)? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/The Sleeping Beauty and the Beast. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, The Sleeping Beauty and the Beast), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Z1720 (talk) 12:02, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Frederick Solomon

On 27 March 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Frederick Solomon, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that composer Frederick Solomon adapted several British pantomimes into Broadway musicals, including The Sleeping Beauty and the Beast (sheet music pictured)? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/The Sleeping Beauty and the Beast. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Frederick Solomon), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Z1720 (talk) 12:02, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Henri Berény

On 31 March 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Henri Berény, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that due to his Hungarian background, composer Henri Berény was banned from living and working in Paris during World War I and his home was seized by the French government? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Henri Berény. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Henri Berény), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

 — Amakuru (talk) 14:24, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Marcelle (musical)

On 6 April 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Marcelle (musical), which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that as the title character in Marcelle, actress Louise Gunning portrayed a Parisian barmaid who masquerades as her brother, a soldier? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Marcelle (musical). You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Marcelle (musical)), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

—Ganesha811 (talk) 00:02, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Joseph Redding

Hello! Your submission of Joseph Redding at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) at your nomination's entry and respond there at your earliest convenience. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 23:35, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

April music

story · music · places

Sorry, I'm a bit overwhelmed by deaths, articles here and also in real life. Please excuse my limited interest in discussing things that will result in a few 100 views more or less, if at all, in that perspective. Notker Wolf, for example. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:18, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, I'm a bit overwhelmed by deaths, and am slowly working on the articles for two of those for which new sources need to be incorporated before they can be nominated (two others are on the Main page right now), and the funeral in real life is on 12 April. I read your review with interest and thought I'd work on that article afterwards. But the load of tags in the article puts me under pressure. Do you understand? I suggest I ask questions here, and then remove the tags one by one when you agree.

1. Summary of the conductor's position. She has an article - I thought. It's not "opinion" but as quick a summary as I could think. She had a different position when she founded the orchestra than she has now, which is the first woman as music director of an Italian opera house, in Bologna. How detailed would you want it? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:26, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

   I tried to split two run-ons, insert three positions for the conductor (with two references from her bio), tried "this orchester" once (didn't want to say Bundesjugendorchester twice in a row), and made the connection between Lviv and the conductor. Too tired for more. To be continued but only after the first of the two RD is nominated. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:20, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

Gerda Arendt Take your time. Don't feel pressured to get this done today or even this week. Take as much time as you need.4meter4 (talk) 22:35, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

I woke up to this invitation, thank you. To take my time was my intention, but seeing the article tags made me feel under pressure, and I can't help that feeling. My brain tells me that they were written in order to help and that it shouldn't matter to have my incompetence publicly displayed, but my stomach doesn't listen. - I feel better now, having succeeded to integrate more obituaries for Michael Boder, even one in English, and thrown out two company refs as less reliable, according to your words. - I worked on the first paragraph for the orchestra around midnight, please check. The time to continue will be after some hours of real life. Tomorrow's funeral with travel will keep me away most of that day, choir rehearsal same on Saturday, and I try not to work on Sundays. Therefore I'd like to get the article somewhat improved later today. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:48, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

The day went not as planned, but in the end I got to some copy-editing: shorter sentences, more links and explanations. Please check. I asked a few users to help copy-editing and finding sources, perhaps in Ukrainian. Bedtime. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:01, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

My story today is about a piece composed for the Second Sunday after Easter 300 years ago, and I just returned from a (long) Handel opera about the same age. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:51, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

The last of 6 RD articles is on the Main page now - relief. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:11, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

(followed by two birthdays) - I added a new hook to the Holender nom, in case of interest. Nice to see another opera singer on the Main page, even pictured, - funny that his name is Holland ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:50, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

today a sad task - memory of Andrew Davis - turned into entertainment (yt at the bottom of his article, actually both) -- the latest pictures capture extreme weather --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:38, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for the singer DYK today! The Ukrainian youth orchestra is in the same set, - thank you again for your sourcing contributions, as a constructive reviewer! - My brother is pictured with the Marta concert. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:41, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

DYK for George W. Munroe

On 12 April 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article George W. Munroe, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Broadway and vaudeville star George W. Munroe (pictured) was known for his comic female impersonations of elderly Irish women? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/George W. Munroe. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, George W. Munroe), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Gatoclass 12:02, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

George W. Munroe

Fascinating article; great job! Josh Milburn (talk) 13:43, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

• @Josh Milburn Thank you for the kind words. I enjoyed writing it.4meter4 (talk) 15:52, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Silvio Hein

On 13 April 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Silvio Hein, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that after Broadway musical composer Silvio Hein died in 1928, the pallbearers at his funeral included Irving Berlin, John Philip Sousa, and Jerome Kern? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Silvio Hein. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Silvio Hein), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

—Kusma (talk) 00:03, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Tagging pages for deletion

Hello, 4meter4,

I was closing Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Joanna Sawyer and noticed that you never notified the article creator of this AFD discussion. You also didn't inform this editor when you started an AFD about Anna Stolli. Luckily, a bot took care of the steps you didn't properly take but bots aren't 100% reliable and its your responsibility as the AFD nominator to inform the page creator and other interested parties.

I recommend you start using Twinkle to tag articles for all types of deletion (CSD, PROD, AFD/RFD/CFD/etc.) and set your Twinkle Preferences so the box for "Notify page creator" is checked off. Then when you use Twinkle to tag an article for deletion and it sets up the AFD discussion page, Twinkle will post these notices on your behalf. Twinkle is an editing tool used by most page patrollers and many administrators because it saves an editor from having to search for the proper templates. It's a real time saver and I encourage you to try it out. If you don't want to use Twinkle though, please post these notifications yourself as, like I said, the bots are not completely reliable and it's a step that should be done by a human editor, not a bot. Thank you. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:44, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Ok. Will do.4meter4 (talk) 02:25, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Josef Weiss

On 15 April 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Josef Weiss, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that pianist and composer Josef Weiss created the first film score in the history of German cinema? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Josef Weiss. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Josef Weiss), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

♠PMC♠ (talk) 12:02, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Robert Winterberg

On 16 April 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Robert Winterberg, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that in 1906, composer Robert Winterberg gave a concert for the queen of Romania? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Robert Winterberg. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Robert Winterberg), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

—Ganesha811 (talk) 00:02, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for a much needed article, and not even in German yet. It's featured on Portal:Germany, pictured and with music. What landed on the Main page would not have attracted me, - I only looked because of the German name as possibly interesting for the Portal (and yes, he was!). I am not liked on WP:ERRORS, but think the change should be discussed on WT:DYK, and also better not by me. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:01, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

Gerda Arendt Thanks for the kind words. The original hook was brought up at Wikipedia talk:Did you know#Prep7#Robert Winterberg where there were many editors complaining the hook was boring. I went with the Queen of Romania thing because they were threatening to not feature the article at all. I too found the other hook more interesting, but then, like you, I am somewhat knowledgable about German operetta in comparison to the average person. The original hook would have been more interesting to someone who likes opera and musical theatre history. The queen of Romania hook was probably more interesting to a general audience. Thanks for taking the time to feature the original hook in the portal.4meter4 (talk) 16:15, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. As you may have seen, I didn't know anything about the history when I saw the two hooks, and had no time to find out, and made my choice for Portal:Germany, where the other hook would have not supplied any connection, while a piece in German and successful in German was a simple connection. I found out about the discussion only later, and commented there. I think this "interesting to a broad readership" is trying to achieve something impossible, and believe it would be better if it was "interesting to those who find the topic interesting". Liviu Holender, btw, will give a recital tomorrow singing Mahler, Schönberg, Zemlinsky, and others from the period. That's what he is good at. I don't know if I can make it, but am very happy that I won't have to be guilty to report on Wikipedia's Main page trivia such as that he held hands with his wife ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:26, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

I have a ticket for the recital. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:34, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

Wunderbar.4meter4 (talk) 22:42, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, and yes, it was. Very intense, anti-war songs, songs of departure ... - free choice of seats, so I sat quite close to the piano. The baritone sang everything from memory, and introduced the music speaking. Schönberg Op. 1 deserves an article. Korngold and Schreker were the other two composers whose music was banned by the Nazis. - Congrats to the baritone below. On the opera talk and for Portal:Germany, he is pictured. I have no idea why the DYK would miss such a chance to show not only how he looks, but how he acts, and the period (which in the hook could be anywhere anytime). I added "baritone" and the "Berlin State Opera" in both cases, - "an opera star" is as vague as can be. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:09, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Joseph Schwarz (baritone)

On 18 April 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Joseph Schwarz (baritone), which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that in opposition to his parents, opera star Joseph Schwarz began his career by running away from home to join a band of traveling minstrels? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Joseph Schwarz (baritone). You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Joseph Schwarz (baritone)), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:02, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Owen Murphy (songwriter)

On 22 April 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Owen Murphy (songwriter), which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Albert Gumble and Owen Murphy's music score for the Broadway musical Red Pepper was dismissed by one critic as not "real music" because of its embrace of jazz? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Owen Murphy (songwriter). You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Owen Murphy (songwriter)), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

RoySmith (talk) 00:04, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Albert Gumble

On 22 April 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Albert Gumble, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Albert Gumble and Owen Murphy's music score for the Broadway musical Red Pepper was dismissed by one critic as not "real music" because of its embrace of jazz? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Owen Murphy (songwriter). You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Albert Gumble), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

RoySmith (talk) 00:04, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Red Pepper (musical)

On 22 April 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Red Pepper (musical), which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Albert Gumble and Owen Murphy's music score for the Broadway musical Red Pepper was dismissed by one critic as not "real music" because of its embrace of jazz? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Owen Murphy (songwriter). You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Red Pepper (musical)), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

RoySmith (talk) 00:04, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Olga von Türk-Rohn

On 30 April 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Olga von Türk-Rohn, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that soprano Olga von Türk-Rohn (pictured) was celebrated for her interpretations of Franz Schubert's lieder? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Olga von Türk-Rohn. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Olga von Türk-Rohn), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:02, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Theatres completed in 1811

A tag has been placed on Category:Theatres completed in 1811 indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and removing the speedy deletion tag. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 16:39, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

Draft:William Stuckenholz

Would you be able to help with this subject? FloridaArmy (talk) 13:55, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Joseph Redding

On 7 May 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Joseph Redding, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that opera composer and librettist Joseph Redding (pictured) was also a chess polymath and lawyer who won a landmark decision before the United States Supreme Court? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Joseph Redding. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Joseph Redding), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:02, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for this article! Unique SCOTUS cases are always fascinating to me, and to find someone involved in both music and SCOTUS cases? How very specific but very impressive! MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 00:30, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

story · music · places

Thank you for the article about a man with many talents! - On the bicentenary of Beethoven's Ninth Symphony, I remember our recent uplifting choral concert in pictures, on my user page and in my concerts (leading to the two at the church's article). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:02, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Today is the Feast of the Ascension for which Bach composed his oratorio, - perhaps watch a bit how the closing movement was performed in Bach's church. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:36, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Magdalena Hinterdobler is on the Main page today, together with the opera that you thought was not interesting and too obscure for our general readers. The soprano thought differently, - listen and see. The conductor said that in that interview that it was the first unabridged version ever. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:03, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Doom (2016 video game) - today's TFA is again by Vami --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:44, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

today's story mentions a concert I loved to hear and a piece I loved to sing in choir, 150 years old OTD. Both - DYK and OTD - were hard work, I confess. In the end I like the hook with five composers the Nazis banned even better than the one you found boring. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:01, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Today's story is about Samuel Kummer, one of five items on the Main page - more musing on my talk --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:35, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Lester Allen

On 10 May 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Lester Allen, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Broadway and film star Lester Allen began his career as a child acrobat in the Barnum and Bailey Circus? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Lester Allen. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Lester Allen), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

 — Amakuru (talk) 00:02, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Frank Croxton

On 13 May 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Frank Croxton, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that singer Frank Croxton performed a duet with his father for the unveiling of a monument to a Confederate States Army general? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Frank Croxton. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Frank Croxton), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 00:03, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Agnes Kimball

On 14 May 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Agnes Kimball, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that although Agnes Kimball was a popular recording artist of opera and musical theatre, she never appeared as a singing actress on the stage? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Agnes Kimball. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Agnes Kimball), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

RoySmith (talk) 00:03, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

ANI notification

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. AndyTheGrump (talk) 19:30, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

New message from Narutolovehinata5

Hello, 4meter4. You have new messages at Template:Did you know nominations/Daniela Kerck.
Message added 00:30, 20 May 2024 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:30, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

Category:Works set in abandoned buildings and structures has been nominated for renaming

Category:Works set in abandoned buildings and structures has been nominated for renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether it complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:07, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

A Barnstar for you

		The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
		For taking on tough tasks at DYK. I noticed your reasoned comments in discussions; I also applaud your contributions relating to governance. Bruxton (talk) 15:17, 25 May 2024 (UTC)

Draft:Alto Oates

Greetings! Is this subject notable? FloridaArmy (talk) 18:21, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

FloridaArmy She probably is. There's quite a lot of newspaper coverage in newspapers.com; mainly from 1920-1940 but with some coverage in the late 1910s and into the 1950s. Not much appears to have been written about her in books though. She does get a brief and not that positive mention in Blacks in Blackface She does get more positive coverage in this journal article: Black Delilahs: Black Female Sexuality and Resistance in Progressive Era New York City Ultimnately building an article will require going through newspaper archives with this particular person.4meter4 (talk) 20:12, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. It is okay if I repost your findings to the entry's talkpage? 20:53, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

FloridaArmy I did it for you. Best.4meter4 (talk) 21:31, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Lyceum Theatre (Boston)

On 3 June 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Lyceum Theatre (Boston), which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Boston's World's Museum was a theatre, an aquarium, a menagerie, and a freak show? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Lyceum Theatre (Boston). You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Lyceum Theatre (Boston)), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Z1720 (talk) 00:04, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Thank you SO much!

Thank you so much for your work on Masi Asare. I so appreciate you getting her into the mainspace and helping make her article better! Wikipedian339 (talk) 16:48, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

@Wikipedian339 Happy to help. Thank you for working on this article.4meter4 (talk) 16:51, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

By the way, I'm not sure if this interests you at all, but there is one more BMI alum I made a draft for who's not on wikipedia yet, but I do think seems pretty notable to me. Draft:Dan Mertzlufft

If you're interested, you can take a look, but if not, no worries, I'm sure someone eventually will. Wikipedian339 (talk) 18:21, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Richmond Theatre (Richmond, Virginia)

On 7 June 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Richmond Theatre (Richmond, Virginia), which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that three of the four Richmond Theatres were destroyed by fire, of which the 1811 fire was described as "early America's first great disaster"? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Richmond Theatre (Richmond, Virginia). You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Richmond Theatre (Richmond, Virginia)), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

RoySmith (talk) 00:12, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

story · music · places

Thank you for the article, and I'm sorry we didn't get it pictured (in a different set, - today's image is strong and I would not have wanted to miss that either). - Please return to the Kerck nom, about primary source vs. promotional source. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:24, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

The article Cecelia Hall (mezzo-soprano) that you expanded and referenced is now a good article; see Talk:Cecelia Hall (mezzo-soprano) for comments about the article, and Talk:Cecelia Hall (mezzo-soprano)/GA1 for the nomination. Thank you for your share, you deserve credit more than I do. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:54, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your share in Daniela Kerck! The image in my story is what I happened to see from my seat (in a performance before the festival - with Anna Netrebko in the title role but sold out of course - and the other was possibly the icier Principessa anyway). I recommend the trailer video. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:36, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Richmond Theatre (Richmond, Virginia) and Richmond Theatre fire

Yesterday I was trying to tease out some dates & referencing in these 2 articles and see that you extensively edited them both, like this edit from May 1, 2024. I am puzzled as to the sources you cited when I cannot find them listed in the references section, for instance, your edit added the following but:

Quesnay's Academy opened on October 10, 1876 in a performance given by the Old American Company of Comedians under the management of Hallam and Henry. Sources vary as to which work was performed on this date, with some sources claiming it was the opera Poor Soldier and one source the play School for Scandal.

Keller does not state the info about Hallam and Henry ("under the management...") or give the October date on page 229, both the authors Sonneck and Hornblow are not listed in the References, Stoutamire is the one who gives the date on page 70 (as seen at the main Richmond Theatre article.
There were some oddities in the dates in the Theatre fire article, looks like a year was transposed from October 10, 1786 to October 10 1886 and in the interim Bosco9691 has fixed those typos.
However, as I said above, Keller does not give the date, Sonneck & Hornblow are not listed out as citations in the Fire article's references section & Stoutamire is the source with the October date. In the fire article, regarding the October 10th date, I am going to substitute the complete Stoutamire cite for the Keller cite since Keller does not have the date and Stoutamire does. I've adjusted a few other things in the Fire article.
I am having trouble finding online access to your Poet ref:
<ref name="Poet">{{cite journal|title=Poet, Patriot and Pedagogue|first= John G.|last= Roberts|journal=Arts in Virginia|date= Winter 1966}}</ref>
so I can verify its information. The "Arts in Virginia" journal has completely eluded me, I have been unable to find that named journal or magazine anywhere online, so I was wondering if it by any chance it could go by other name/s? I've hidden that ref for the time being within the Fire article, so if you do have more information you can add it and then get the ref "out of hiding". Thanks, Shearonink (talk) 18:25, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

References

@Shearonink Thank you for looking over my contributions. Honestly I read so many sources it is difficult for me to recall which sources contained what information from memory at this point. I've read much else since. I'd have to go back and relook at the sources if you have specific questions. I will go back and find the Sonneck and Hornblow source information and add the refs. I'll double check for accuracy on that section. Arts in Virginia is the journal of the Virginia Museum of Fine Arts published from 1960-1993. You can access The Poet, Patriot, and Pedagogue journal article in the Virginia Museum of Fine Arts archives (not sure if its available on their website or just at their on-site library. They have five physical copies, but I don't believe it has been digitized). The journal is also physically available in some university and public libraries in the state of Virginia. I looked at the journal offline. 4meter4 (talk) 19:14, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

• Here is Sonneck

• [https://www.google.com/books/edition/History_of_the_American_Theatre_During_t/plZAAQAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=Henry+and+Hallam+Poor+Soldier+Alexander+Richmond+Theatre&pg=PA205&printsec=frontcover

I went into the Theatre article & fixed/adjusted some of the referencing. Thanks for your help. The Poet ref/refs could maybe have the publisher (VA Museum) and a Note on where copies can possibly be found, to save anyone trying to find online/archival versions. I was unable to find even library listings of where the journal is held... Shearonink (talk) 15:00, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Carrie Swain

On 9 June 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Carrie Swain, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Carrie Swain was possibly the first woman entertainer to perform in blackface? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Carrie Swain. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Carrie Swain), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

RoySmith (talk) 00:02, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

Draft:Essence of Old Virginia

I stumbled on this subject and it seems pretty interesting. It is described as a minstrel dance and also noted as a song? It looks like some videos on YouTube capture it being performed as a song. FloridaArmy (talk) 14:01, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

DYK for George Kunkel (actor)

On 16 June 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article George Kunkel (actor), which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that George Kunkel (pictured) portrayed a mountaineer in The Chalice of Courage (1915), the first film to depict assisted suicide? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/George Kunkel (actor). You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, George Kunkel (actor)), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

RoySmith (talk) 00:02, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

DYK for The Chalice of Courage

On 16 June 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article The Chalice of Courage, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that George Kunkel (pictured) portrayed a mountaineer in The Chalice of Courage (1915), the first film to depict assisted suicide? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/George Kunkel (actor). You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, The Chalice of Courage), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

RoySmith (talk) 00:02, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Max Weil

On 1 July 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Max Weil, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Max Weil, founder of the Halifax Symphony Orchestra, spent his later years in real estate? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Max Weil. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Max Weil), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

RoySmith (talk) 00:03, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Edward M. Zimmerman

On 3 July 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Edward M. Zimmerman, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that husband and wife Edward M. and Marie Zimmerman co-wrote the suffragist anthem "Votes for Women: Suffrage Rallying Song"? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Edward M. Zimmerman. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Edward M. Zimmerman), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

RoySmith (talk) 00:04, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Marie Kunkel Zimmerman

On 3 July 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Marie Kunkel Zimmerman, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that husband and wife Edward M. and Marie Zimmerman co-wrote the suffragist anthem "Votes for Women: Suffrage Rallying Song"? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Edward M. Zimmerman. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Marie Kunkel Zimmerman), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

RoySmith (talk) 00:04, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

DYK for George Kunkel (theatre manager)

On 4 July 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article George Kunkel (theatre manager), which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that actor George Kunkel (pictured) portrayed in blackface the character of Uncle Tom, using it at first to promote slavery during the American Civil War but later to attack it, after his views had changed? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/George Kunkel (theatre manager). You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, George Kunkel (theatre manager)), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

 — Amakuru (talk) 00:02, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

Draft:Jack Mills (music publisher)

How's everything going? Could you please take a look at this draft? FloridaArmy (talk) 02:23, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

Draft:Somebody's Knocking at Your Door

I started a draft on this traditional spiritual. FloridaArmy (talk) 17:51, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Draft:T. Mayo Geary

This is another draft that needs help. FloridaArmy (talk) 10:45, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

Draft:Dan Quinlan

Is this subject notable? FloridaArmy (talk) 00:14, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

Draft:Harry Kraton

Could you please have a look at this rejected draft and see what you think? FloridaArmy (talk) 02:23, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

Draft:Cliff Hess

Here is another draft I wouod be happy to have help with. FloridaArmy (talk) 02:40, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

Draft:Jesse French

Greetings! Would you or someone you know be able to rescue this rejected draft on a historic piano and organ manufacturer with extant historic buildings remaining? FloridaArmy (talk) 13:37, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Scott Jarvis (actor)

On 7 August 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Scott Jarvis (actor), which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Scott Jarvis (actor). You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Scott Jarvis (actor)), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Z1720 (talk) 00:03, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

Sorry 4meter4, this got sent to you early. In order to make room for a special occasion hook, this hook got bumped to Prep 3, but the coding to give you credit was still in queue 4. This hook is scheduled to run on Aug. 16. Sorry again for the confusion. Z1720 (talk) 14:07, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Verna Osborne

On 13 August 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Verna Osborne, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that voice teacher Verna Osborne retired at the age of 101? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Verna Osborne. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Verna Osborne), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

RoySmith (talk) 00:02, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

story · music · places

Thank you for another good one! - I took the pic a year ago (OTD), and a Bach cantata was first performed 300 years ago OTD, on the same Main page. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:15, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

Ultraphon: I began translation, the last paragraph is missing, next steps would be to provide ill links and improve referencing. Please check the English. I need a break now, RL, but though I better publish now. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:57, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Baltimore Museum and Gallery of Fine Arts

On 14 August 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Baltimore Museum and Gallery of Fine Arts, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that one of the items on display at the Baltimore Museum and Gallery of Fine Arts was George Washington's shaving brush? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Baltimore Museum and Gallery of Fine Arts. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Baltimore Museum and Gallery of Fine Arts), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Z1720 (talk) 00:03, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Joan Ruth

On 16 August 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Joan Ruth, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that soprano Joan Ruth rejected a marriage proposal because her suitor wanted her to abandon ambitions of a singing career? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Joan Ruth. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Joan Ruth), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

RoySmith (talk) 00:02, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

Draft:Nixon and Sans

Could you help with this one? FloridaArmy (talk) 14:52, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

FloridaArmy I took a look, and couldn't find anything more than what you already gathered. Appears to have been a short lived duo from 1926-1928 that didn't have much of an impact. Not surprising for a blackface duo at the very end of the vaudeville era, and somewhat past the days of minstrelsy. This one is probably not notable.4meter4 (talk) 17:07, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

I changed my assessment. An article would be possible based on this archive search: https://archive.org/search?query=%22Nixon+and+Sans%22&sin=TXT&sort=-date However, it's not really a topic I am interested in because it has limited intersection possibilities. They are a rather obscure comedy duo. I'm going to pass on this one as I have many other projects I am currently working on. Best.4meter4 (talk) 17:24, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Scott Jarvis (actor)

On 20 August 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Scott Jarvis (actor), which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that actor Scott Jarvis was angered when White House officials under Richard Nixon requested that portions of his role in the musical 1776 be cut due to its anti-war theme? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Scott Jarvis (actor). You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Scott Jarvis (actor)), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

BorgQueen (talk) 00:03, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

Terrific little article on a subject fascinating to a theater major like me. Thanks, 4meter4. BusterD (talk) 01:20, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Grace Panvini

On 31 August 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Grace Panvini, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that soprano Grace Panvini stood 4 ft 11.75 in (151.8 cm) tall – a height described by one reviewer as an asset for appearing youthful on stage? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Grace Panvini. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Grace Panvini), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

—Kusma (talk) 00:04, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Alfredo Gandolfi

On 5 September 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Alfredo Gandolfi, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that cinematographer Alfredo Gandolfi also had a career as a singer that included more than 300 performances at the Metropolitan Opera? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Alfredo Gandolfi. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Alfredo Gandolfi), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

RoySmith (talk) 00:02, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Henri Hamal

If you would like to expand your recent stub article Henri Hamal, please feel free to make use of my incomplete research in User:Narky Blert/sandbox 3, which includes a rough translation of the Dutch article. In my state of health, I'll not be returning to it. Just mention me in the WP:ES per WP:COPYWITHIN. Best, Narky Blert (talk) 17:17, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Nice work and note

Hey there 4meter4, hope you're keeping well. I've seen your recent efforts with filling in the Wikipedia:Music encyclopedia topics—nice job! I've decided to take a crack at it myself, starting at the last pages (the Zs!). All I've done so far is expand Zygmunt Szweykowski (musicologist), but I expect to get to others shortly. Best – Aza24 (talk) 21:08, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

@Aza24 Awesome. I'm mostly just going through and double checking the blue links. Sometimes its blue because a non-music person/topic with the same name has had an article created. In such cases I will knock off a quick article for disambiguation purposes. Other times, it is the person or topic we want. In such cases, I remove the topic from the music encyclopedia list if it is a start rated article or better. If it is a stub, I make a note and leave it. Any help you are willing to give is appreciated. I find, that the encyclopedia list gets tedious after a point, so I tend to do a check in on a couple pages maybe once or twice a year before moving on to something else.4meter4 (talk) 21:17, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Gotcha, I figured you were aiming for something like that. Ironically I found myself having to do that Szweykowski, and his father of the same name (plus the list had a redlink for him, but was just missing a redirect since we already had an article). I expect the tediousness will arrive!—but may as well chip away while I have the motivation. Aza24 (talk) 21:28, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Aza24 That often happens. I've had a few cases where it required writing three or more articles because of multiple people with overlapping names. Then of course there is finding articles in horribly bad shape or with factual errors, and taking time to do cleanup, sourcing, etc.4meter4 (talk) 21:33, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Draft:Lorenzo McLane

Greetings! Is this subject notable? FloridaArmy (talk) 18:18, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

@FloridaArmy I was unable to locate a single source on McLane where he was the primary subject. There are many references where he is listed among the names of a bunch of other people (mostly cast lists). I could not locate an obituary. I don't think there is enough content to justify an article. That said, I think you could add content on McClane to the page at Henrietta Loveless. It would be fine to mention his work as a film actor with those two films, and his musical theatre work along with his songwriting with his wife at that page. You could then create a redirect at Lorenzo McLane to Henrietta Loveless. Best.4meter4 (talk) 18:45, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Will do. Thanks! FloridaArmy (talk) 19:00, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Draft:Fred Sulis

Have I asked you about this one? FloridaArmy (talk) 21:01, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Walter Kirchhoff

On 13 September 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Walter Kirchhoff, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that operatic tenor Walter Kirchhoff (pictured) was also an officer in the cavalry division of the Imperial German Army? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Walter Kirchhoff. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Walter Kirchhoff), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

—Kusma (talk) 00:02, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Christopher Columbus (Zador)

On 15 September 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Christopher Columbus (Zador), which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that the opera Christopher Columbus was written by its Jewish composer while fleeing persecution from Nazi Germany by sailing across the Atlantic? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Christopher Columbus (Zador). You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Christopher Columbus (Zador)), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

—Kusma (talk) 00:02, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

AfD script

Wow - a hand-coded AfD! I'm impressed and also extremely apologetic that no one has ever referred you to WP:TWINKLE before. This gadget is useful for all kinds of things, among them, one-step AfD notifications. -- asilvering (talk) 03:05, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

@Asilvering Thanks. I've been editing wikipedia long before Twinkle came around. Old habits die hard.4meter4 (talk) 03:09, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

Draft:T. S. Denison & Company

I hope everything is going well for you. I would love to have help with this draft. FloridaArmy (talk) 12:19, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Category:Summer camps in film has been nominated for merging

Category:Summer camps in film has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether it complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. QuantumFoam66 (talk) 01:46, 3 October 2024 (UTC)

Category:Video games set in summer camps has been nominated for merging

Category:Video games set in summer camps has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether it complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. QuantumFoam66 (talk) 02:00, 3 October 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Winfield Blake

On 8 October 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Winfield Blake, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that after a career as an opera singer and Broadway musical star, Winfield Blake (pictured) became a comedian in vaudeville as one half of the comic duo Blake and Amber? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Winfield Blake. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Winfield Blake), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

 — Chris Woodrich (talk) 00:02, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

story · music · places

Thank you for another detailed bio! - I have Rohan de Saram on the same page. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:14, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

My story today is about a composer and choir conductor, listen to his Lamento. - My story on 13 October was about a Bach cantata. As this place works, it's on the Main page now because of the date (but Bach wrote it for the 20th Sunday, not the Tuesday after the 21st Sunday after Trinity). I sort of like it because today is the birth date of my grandfather who loved and grew dahlias like those pictured. I'll turn to the Japanese soprano after a round of loving memory. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:34, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

Did you listen to that Lamento? ... to the soprano? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 05:26, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

Blackface

Hi, I saw you at talk:blackface and would like your help.

Can we revise the article to describe the two mainstream views on the topic?

1. that it's always offensive
2. that there are occasions where it's okay

In America it's split 60-40 against, and as long as we don't exaggerate size of the "sometimes okay" group, would you agree that we can describe their reasoning? --Uncle Ed (talk) 19:19, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

I disagree that there are two mainstream views. Scholarly works from subject matter experts agree that blackface is racist across the board. Public opinion is notoriously unreliable, and public opinion polls don’t equate to truth. See for example https://www.nature.com/scitable/blog/scibytes/unbelievable/ where one in four Americans stated that the sun revolved around the earth. Best.4meter4 (talk) 03:53, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Draft:Louis De Francesco

The stubby draft on this conductor of film music was not approved as an AfC submission. FloridaArmy (talk) 11:51, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Gonzalo Brenes

On 14 October 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Gonzalo Brenes, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that composer Gonzalo Brenes was a politician in the National Assembly of Panama and served for seven years as Panama's secretary of culture? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Gonzalo Brenes. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Gonzalo Brenes), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

^Complex/_Rational 00:03, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

Speedy deletion declined: Silvia Weiss

Hello 4meter4. I am just letting you know that I declined the speedy deletion of Silvia Weiss, a page you tagged for speedy deletion, because of the following concern: Unattributed translation of de.wiki - attrbution repair will be applied. Thank you. Whpq (talk) 02:28, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

@Whpq Does that mean some sort of process will be done to fix the attribution issue?4meter4 (talk) 02:33, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

Yes. I've added the attribution in the edit summary, and after replying I will be adding a translation notice on the talk page. -- Whpq (talk) 02:35, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

UPDATE: The talk page already has the translation box which notes it is translated from the German Wikipedia article. However, the proper way to do the attribution is to place it as an edit comment when creating the article. See Help:Translation for more details. -- Whpq (talk) 02:40, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

This is another one, 4m4, that you could have brought to our attention before calling for deletion. I must say a "speedy deletion" request for an article which has been around for four years is quite unusual. Thank goodness Whpq was able to save it. In future, please be kind enough to inform Gerda Arendt or me of your intended deletions of women opera singers. Let's hope we can find acceptable sources for your collaboration with Groove.--Ipigott (talk) 17:44, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

Ipigott I thought I was following policy over copyright infringement which is a very different issue than notability. If I had known it was a simple matter of inserting attribution than I wouldn't have gone down that route. I wasn't familiar with WP:RIA until after yesterday's experience. Additionally, that article was created by a permanently banned user, and the tendency has been to delete that user's creations in the past due to serious problematic issues over false referencing, copyright violations, and other bad faith editing behaviors. His work has to be constantly checked for willful deception which was why he was banned. Best.4meter4 (talk) 17:50, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for explaining your reasoning, I'm happy to see that you have discovered translation requirements including WP:RIA. I actually spend quite of a lot of my time with recent collaborators on the importance of explaining the origin of a translation from another wiki version. Many of the EN biographies of opera singers are in fact based on such translations and have frequently not been correctly attributed. Thanks also for all your explanations on my talk page.--Ipigott (talk) 07:18, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

(watching:) I don't agree with the depiction of "willful deception" for LouisAlain. What I saw was: he simply translated, using Deepl (not Google). He ran into trouble for lack of references, but that was not his problem but of the translated articles. He tried by adding something (most often just some organization's website, see Kaoli Isshiki, two of those. No idea why he didn't take the refs from the article, sorry.) That was wrong, but not "willful deception", rather a sign of being helpless and incompetent, imho. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:00, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

Gerda, we don't block people for innocent errors and mistakes. He was blocked for a pattern of deceptive behavior across many many articles Let's not get into a back and forth on this. The block speaks for itself.4meter4 (talk) 14:44, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

I have seen the ban, and other bans that didn't "speak for themselves", not for me at least. Can we please leave those who can't defend themselves alone? LouisAlain had health problems. I wonder if he is still alive. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:50, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

Gerda, you are the only one dragging this on further. I can't help that I am still finding false referencing and copyright violations in Louis's edits, and that it is an on-going issue. I can't help that this issue still gets raised periodically at noticeboards and AFD nominations (most often not by me). When I come across errata Louis introduced, I normally don't say anything and just fix it. In this care it was relevant to my actions which I was questioned about. I had to defend myself and explain why I did what I did. FYI, Louis was my friend too while he was active. That doesn't mean the problems of his editing legacy should be ignored and dismissed. They do need to be addressed for the integrity of the project.4meter4 (talk) 15:01, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

I contacted the German editor who added the sources in 2022, Brodkey85. He sent me the (short) entry in GSL which I added to the article. He sent me the other reference as well, but I'll probably have no time for that until next week as said before. He also said that there is indication that she died last year, but no obit or other confirmation. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:02, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Plays set on trains

A tag has been placed on Category:Plays set on trains indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and removing the speedy deletion tag. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 18:33, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

Category:Films set in summer camps has been nominated for merging

Category:Films set in summer camps has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether it complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Gonnym (talk) 17:18, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

PacRep

I don't want to cause an edit conflict. Are you finished editing for a half hour or so? -- Ssilvers (talk) 19:21, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

Ssilvers I was just about to take a break. I can hold off from editing during the next hour. You are welcome to jump in now. Thanks for the message.4meter4 (talk) 19:24, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

OK, will do. Shouldn't take me long. -- Ssilvers (talk) 19:26, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

In the text, a book is mentioned by Clarkson, Philip B, with the full cite there. Would you please format it like the others, with the full cite down in Bibliography and the sfn short cite above? I am not comfortable working with sfn citation style. -- Ssilvers (talk) 20:38, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

Ssilvers Sure. I'll take care of it.4meter4 (talk) 20:40, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. Taylor, Dennis L. (November 5, 2020). "PacRep to launch $3 million remodel of Carmel's Golden Bough". Monterey Herald. This is on the Talk page, but it is behind a paywall, so I can't read it. Can you? If not, any idea who can? -- Ssilvers (talk) 21:11, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

Ssilvers I am also not able to access it. I can only get a glimpse of the beginning where it says the second phase of the 3,000,000.00 project was beginning. I added a sentence to the article tying it in to the re-opening in 2024. There's probably a lot more content there. Hopefully someone from Monterey who has a subscription will pitch in at some point, and improve our coverage.4meter4 (talk) 21:29, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

@Ssilvers So I was able to get access (sort of) by taking rapid screen shots of the article in the seconds before the pay wall pop-up blocked my view. I now have about the first two thirds of the article viewable but was blocked before i could scroll and screen shot the end.4meter4 (talk) 21:35, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

@Ssilvers Here is the text I was able to capture:

"The Pacific Repertory Theatre's Golden Bough Playhouse is about to launch the second phase of a multi-million-dollar renovation project, and has just received help from the city of Carmel, which provided a discount on the cost of the permitting process.

The remodeling will completely remake the interior of the Golden Bough. On Tuesday, Pacific Repertory's founder and executive director Stephen Moorer said PacRep is bringing the Golden Bough up to complete compliance with the Americans with Disabilities Act among other major remodeling efforts. Capital for the project is entirely through fundraising, and the theater has to date raised roughly $2.7 million of the $3 million goal. Moorer said a major gift of $2.29 million was provided by local philanthropist and Carmel resident Bertie Bialek Elliott.

PacRep has operated the historic building since 1994, which includes three separate theater spaces — the 300-seat Golden Bough, the smaller Circle Theatre with a separate entrance on the backside of the Golden Bough, and the outdoor Forest Theater across town.

Interior work will replace the theater's ventilation system, including new filtration and air conditioning. New restrooms and lobbies will be constructed. The number of seats will be reduced and the interior of the auditorium will be recalibrated with more space between rows. The floor will also be pitched at a different angle. The new audience form, known as "stadium seating," will wrap around the front of the theater's revolving stage, with new side and gallery seating angled directly towards the center of the stage.

The city of Carmel voted to cut the cost of building permits and other fees to help the nonprofit during a time when it is unable to raise revenue through ticket sales. And while the $13,000 waiver might seem like a drop in the bucket with a $3 million capital outlay, every penny helps, Moorer told the City Council Tuesday.

At least one PacRep board member requested the city waive the entire amount. The total fees PacRep was responsible for totaled roughly $46,000. Some of that amount included state fees that are out of the control of the City Council to waive. Some costs, such as plan checks, are fixed and may need to be farmed out to an outside firm since the remodel is specialized, owning to it being public theater, said City Administrator Chip:

"PacRep is a community partner and at the staff level we are huge advocates," Rerig said.

"Philosophically we wish we could do more financially, but the reality is we cut 21% of our staff and $5 million off our budget - 20% of the budget."

The remainder of the building permit fees total about $26,000, which the council voted to reduce to $13,000. But it wasn't a unanimous decision. Councilman Bobby Richards wanted the city to reduce the fees by 75%."

Thanks. BTW, can you tell if Kelleher is still artistic director? -- Ssilvers (talk) 22:27, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

Ssilvers Looks like it as he is still listed on their website; although his official title is "resident director" as given at https://www.pacrep.org/staff It pretty much amounts to the same thing. Best.4meter4 (talk) 22:54, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

Forest Theater and Golden Bough Playhouse

Can you add any of your research to these two articles, also? They are still considering nominating them for AfD and/or merging them into PacRep, which seems like a bad idea to me. -- Ssilvers (talk) 00:10, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

Note this. -- Ssilvers (talk) 05:20, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

@Ssilvers Oh my. Clearly not an editor familiar with the content area. That would be an easily dismantled argument by pointing to the "specialized encyclopedia" criteria of WP:5P1 (which trumps WP:NOT as part of the WP:Five pillars). Specialized performing arts encyclopedias like Grove Music Online, the Deutsches Theater-Lexikon, The Oxford Encyclopedia of Theatre and Performance, etc. routinely list productions. Wikipedia should model its encyclopedia entries off of published subject matter specific encyclopedias by major academic publishers per our foundational pillars. Those all include production lists.4meter4 (talk) 05:34, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

I don't think we should put back in the comprehensive list, but I think we should mention notable productions, especially if we can find a review. And we should point out the focus on local playwrights. I have given the Forest Theater article a proofread and have tried to find a middle ground between the deletionists and the inclusionists, but some good refs will help a lot in adding back discussion of the most important productions. -- Ssilvers (talk) 06:02, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

I agree. Encyclopedias generally don't list every production either unless it's a very specific reference work (and there are a number of those; particularly for Broadway and the West End).4meter4 (talk) 06:08, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

Please do not allow others to deter you

I think you have been considering and were about to do a good thing. I understand that a discussion has caused you stress. Might I suggest you step away from the discussion, but do not step away from the task? 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 17:57, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

I agree. You did a lot of good work at the article, and I think that, with patience, we will persuade people of the importance of this content. User:Timtrent, it would be extremely helpful if you would go to the articles and express your opinion so that we can continue to work on the articles (Pacific Repertory Theatre, Forest Theater and Golden Bough Playhouse), so that they can see that it is not just me and 4meter4 opposing the deletions. -- Ssilvers (talk) 19:31, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

@Timtrent and Ssilvers Thanks for the kind encouragement but I will have to decline. I’ve already had two editors ask me (and others) to not edit the articles or add new sources, one editor accuse me of. being a coi editor, and one editor make a threat of my being blocked if edits are made.

It’s difficult to work on a page(s) where there is clearly a vendetta to prevent article improvements, and a targeted campaign to delete/shame a series of articles by labeling them a non-notable wall garden created or heavily edited by a coi editor. Anybody not sharing that vision immediately becomes a target of harassment, and anyone adding quality independent sources becomes a target for bullying who gets accused of promoting the articles or having some sort of nefarious agenda or being grossly incompetent.

My experience on Wikipedia has taught me that drama tends to create an atmosphere of suspicion where any new editing gets unfairly viewed in a negative light even when it is clearly good intentioned. I’m just not up to working in that atmosphere. It’s unfortunate that coi editing has created a situation where certain articles are being viewed through a particular lens which may lead to an over-reaction in content and editorial decision making that ultimately does not benefit the articles in question.

Ideally cooler heads would prevail, and we could simply add better sourcing and remove problematic content without over trimming material that in any other circumstance would be routinely non-controversial. I just don’t have a thick enough skin to deal with the pushback and maintain my own well being. Not to mention fighting the temptation to fight back and be unkind in return is not something I want to put myself through. I am not a saint. I have so many article topics on my to do list, I will be happier working elsewhere.4meter4 (talk) 19:43, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

I respect your decision. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 20:11, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

@Ssilvers Feel free to refer to this conversation. It is somewhat of a double edged sword. Greg Henderson' community ban was after a protracted period, years, when he worked to create a plausible set of articles on non notable topics, and many need to go. However, some of his work was good, and that needs to be kept. Probably the good work needs editing for tone.

The challenge faced by editors wishing to find the plausible articles on non notable topics is that he did it very well. So some 'feel' notable when they are not.

The best judge is the community as a whole, not you, not 4meter4, certainly not me, and not others referred to but not named. Each of us will have opinions which we believe very strongly to be valid on this. We need to remain open to other opinions, potentially modifying our own.

To summarise, not all of Henderson's output was below standard; a great deal was way below standard; some was acceptable, but in need of editing.

Everyone should go to work with a will, including people we may disagree with. Because the area of Henderson's work has been found to be charged wth controversy everyone must work to the highest standards, criticising their own and others' work against the yardstick of policy. The work should include deletion processes and edits to verify notability

Know that I oppose unfairness in all forms, bullying especially. Provable instances of bullying should go to WP:ANI. BUT making such a report requires clean hands in the matter. WP:BOOMERANG is a real and wise thing. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 20:10, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

Opera Christopher Columbus at Radio City Music Hall

Hi, in the Radio City Music Hall article, you added that the world premier of Zador's opera Christopher Columbus was moved from the Music Hall to Center Theater due to strong ticket sales. This doesn't seem to make sense as written, as the seating capacity of the Music Hall (5,960) is much greater than was that of Center Theater (3,500). I don't have access to the source you cited. Could you recheck your source? Thank you. Joelkfla (talk) 23:52, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

@Joelkfla It states this in the liner notes of the opera recording by the National Symphony Orchestra. You can read it for free here: https://archive.org/details/cd_christopher-columbus-studies-for-orchestr_eugene-zador-westfalisches-sinfonieorchest/page/n3/mode/1up?q=%22Josefa+Chekova%22 If its a mistake, then the mistake was made the writer of the liner notes. Best.4meter4 (talk) 04:52, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Yes, I see it says that it was moved "to the larger Center Theatre," which is simply incorrect. The NY Times archive confirms that it was performed at the Center Theatre, but does not mention it being moved. I assume the liner notes author, or someone to whom he spoke, simply made a bad assumption, as the Center Theatre definitely was not larger than the Music Hall. Joelkfla (talk) 06:49, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Losjuglares

Hello, you can open the query to delete this article http://en.m.wiki.x.io/wiki/Los_Juglares_del_Dexas. since the article fails on WP:GNG --190.219.102.114 (talk) 15:36, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

The article has nothing relevant or notable, the references do not speak significantly about the topic, nor does it have understandable coverage of what it is trying to explain, one of those references is about the sale of a book. 190.219.102.114 (talk) 15:48, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

I don't agree with that assessment.4meter4 (talk) 15:49, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

I Think the Article was deleted based on emotion and Sentiment

Hello @4meter4 would you review the deleted article Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kefas Brand (2nd nomination) for I think it is possible it was deleted based off emotion and little research about the topic. Thank you Idrisskunle (talk) 16:47, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

Question

I understand the ongoing AfD discussions are still open, so I'd figure I'd ask this to someone with some more music topic-area familiarity than me. I've been delving through some of the Starkid musicals recently to determine their notability, since many lack a lot of coverage at a glance. I've been looking at The Guy Who Didn't Like Musicals, though I'm still looking into if I can dig up any reviews for it. There's an awards section, but it's entirely from one website. What's the general consensus on something like this? Is this website, or websites similar to it, usually considered reliable for music related topics? How much notability do they confer with their awards? I want to double check this before I make any final assessment about the page notability-wise. Admittedly this has a bit of overlap with Wikipedia:WikiProject Theatre, but I figured I'd check with you first given I'm not sure whether something like this falls under music guidelines, Theatre guidelines, or some mix of both. Has one ever considered Magneton? Pokelego999 (talk) 05:50, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

@Pokelego999 I'd suggest leaving a message at WP:WikiProject Musical Theatre and ask for input. Best.4meter4 (talk) 05:53, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

@4meter4 ah, thank you. I had entirely forgotten about Wikipedia:WikiProject Musical Theatre's existence. I've left a comment with them and I'll see if I can get some help with that. I'd prefer to try improving that article first than nominating it for deletion straight away, so the help is greatly appreciated all the same.

As an aside, thank you for being patient with me thus far at the AfD. I'm still a bit new to the NMUSIC guidelines, so forgive me if I end up saying something by accident that comes across as completely ludicrous. I'm mostly working with my prior experience with notability plus what is literally being said in these guidelines, so I'm not in the loop if there's some usual standards in the music WikiProjects not outright stated in the guidelines, or if there's other guidelines beyond the ones listed at NMUSIC, that I am unaware of. Has one ever considered Magneton? Pokelego999 (talk) 06:07, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Pokelego999 No problem. :-) Hope to see you around more. Best.4meter4 (talk) 06:10, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

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Have an espresso on me!

	Thank you for your consistently helpful work at AfD, 4meter4; it is appreciated. Feel free to exchange for the beverage of your choice! Cheers, Espresso Addict (talk) 21:46, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Show Boat

What do you think of this image? It is PD now. If you like it, would you kindly add it to the article? More 1927 images are on this page. -- Ssilvers (talk) 19:35, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

@Ssilvers I love these images, but I am pondering whether they are in fact PD. If they were published somewhere before 1929 then they are, but if they were not published the photographer would still have the rights plus 70 years after their death. If the photographer is not known and the work was unpublished they would be still copyrighted until they are 100 years old.

So... basically it comes down to these questions: 1. do we know whether these were published? If so where and when? If published before 1929 we can upload them. 2. If not, who was the photographer and when did they die? If 70 or more years ago we can upload them 3. If none of this is known we have to wait until we can use the pd-old template on commons which won't be until 2027 (or later because some of these are clearly later such as the 1929 film related images). Best.4meter4 (talk)

I appears to have been published in the Playbill, as it is also published on the Playbill website, here. So, I think it's clear enough that it was published in 1927. To be 100% sure, I guess one would have to go to a library that keeps old playbills, unless we can find it on ebay or somewhere. I don't think we should put film images next to the core info about the musical. -- Ssilvers (talk) 20:00, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

I'll see what I can dig up on the images. I am fine with where you moved the film image. Best.4meter4 (talk) 20:03, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. Of course, even if you are not comfortable uploading them as PD yet, they will become PD on January 1, 2028, after they turn 100. But I bet you will find that they were published in 1927. -- Ssilvers (talk) 21:34, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

This from NYPL says the photo was taken by White Studio (New York, NY.) See also this and this. Compare with the Playbill site. -- Ssilvers (talk) 04:24, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

@Ssilvers Thanks for that. Funnily enough, look what just popped up at AFD: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gaylord Ravenal.4meter4 (talk) 04:41, 24 November 2024 (UTC)