Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates/December 2020

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December 31

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(Posted) RD: Joan Micklin Silver

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Article: Joan Micklin Silver (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NYT
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Needs a good amount of work. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 04:23, 2 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) RD: Dick Thornburgh

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: Dick Thornburgh (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Washington Post
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: American politician; among his career titles, he served as the U.S Attorney General under Presidents Reagan and HW Bush and was the Governor of Pennsylvania before that Tunestoons (talk) 07:26, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Jolanta Fedak

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Article: Jolanta Fedak (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://wiadomosci.wp.pl/jolanta-fedak-nie-zyje-miala-60-lat-6592223678036800a
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Polish member of parliament; article updated and sourced MurielMary (talk) 21:56, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support – article is concise but past stub class. It is also well referenced. TJMSmith (talk) 04:47, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. Stubby, some possible translation infelicities. There is nothing about her career outside politics, and what she did in office when she achieved it. Also no personal life at all (spouse, children). The date of her post-grad study would be useful (at least was it immediately after her undergrad education or later). Plenty to time to expand. I can't assess the given sources, which are nearly all Polish language. Espresso Addict (talk) 07:00, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Some details have been added. MurielMary (talk) 11:21, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted Stephen 00:19, 2 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Stephen, Another case of starting from the top when we have discussed starting from the bottom might be the more optimal way to post. Ktin (talk) 00:35, 2 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Stephen, and, fwiw -- this article was NOT ready. It clearly fails the Spencer test. The article is just a listing of political offices and elections contested. There is absolutely nothing about the Fedak's political career in terms of work done, topics and policies advanced. Ktin (talk) 00:53, 2 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Spencer's views on how much detail is necessary in a political biography are not shared by all of us here and should not hold up posting an item that meets the RD criteria.P-K3 (talk) 14:01, 2 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Pawnkingthree, water under the bridge now, but, expecting an article to have details about the work that a person did rather than just a listing of positions / elections seems reasonable to me. That said, other than that vital detail, this article is clean and meets hygiene requirements for homepage / RD. While I continue to maintain that this posting was rushed and also that was posted from the top rather than the bottom, I do not / will not make a case for removing this article from homepage. I would also want to acknowledge MurielMary and TJMSmith 's efforts in shaping the article. Onwards and upwards. Cheers. Ktin (talk) 14:11, 2 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: MF Doom

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Article: MF Doom (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Complex
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: British rapper, songwriter, and record producer. UncomfortablySmug (talk) 21:45, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Narendra Kumar (mountaineer)

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Article: Narendra Kumar (mountaineer) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Outlook India
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Indian mountaineer. Article requires some work on sourcing, but, doable in case someone can get to it before me. Else, I will get to it sometime this afternoon. Comprehensive rewrite of the article completed. Took a little longer due to my off-wiki commitments. But, the article is well sourced and is ready to go. Ktin (talk) 18:58, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

If you are expert on Indian issues, it would probably be best if you work at it first. I've hacked a bit out of the lead on neutrality grounds. Probably wise to run it through Earwig before working on it, chunks probably originated elsewhere. Espresso Addict (talk) 07:09, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Espresso Addict, Ktin Yeah, Earwig does not look good at all. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 17:32, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
It's looking better now, but there are still multiple small copied phrases. I've purged those from two sources but they're still coming up from other places. Not looked at this in detail otherwise, but just to start with the list of awards in the lead could do with pruning to the most prestigious and the tone is still a bit too laudatory. Espresso Addict (talk) 02:43, 2 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Espresso Addict, please tone down the snark re: the text in the parenthesis. Ktin (talk) 02:55, 2 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
There was no intentional snark, sorry. I've removed the irrelevant aside. Espresso Addict (talk) 03:05, 2 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Espresso Addict, I have removed three awards from the lede, though I think that was not necessary. The latest Copvio report is here. I do not see any more reasons to hold this article back. Ktin (talk) 03:02, 2 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

As I said above, there is still copying from sources. Walking away from this. Espresso Addict (talk) 03:08, 2 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Tommy Docherty

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Article: Tommy Docherty (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC Sport
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Former Manchester United manager, aged 92, sources need some work which I will get to later JW 1961 Talk 16:59, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

UNAMID

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Article: United Nations–African Union Mission in Darfur (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The mandate for the United Nations–African Union Mission in Darfur, instituted in 2007 amid the War in Darfur, officially expires. (Post)
News source(s): Refworld, Al Jazeera
Credits:

Article needs updating

Nominator's comments: UNAMID, begun in 2007, was one of the largest and most controversial UN peacekeeping missions. Its mandate expires on 31 December, beginning a six-month drawdown period. In common with much of our UN coverage, the article is unfortunately not in a good state and needs quite a bit of TLC. —Brigade Piron (talk) 10:38, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The mandate expires, so UNAMID itself expires? That is a notable consequence. It will explicitly not be replaced, and its activities are now restricted to securing its own withdrawal. Please actually read the links before voting. —Brigade Piron (talk) 21:36, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Roy B.B. Janis

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Article: Roy B.B. Janis (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Regards, Jeromi Mikhael (marhata) 06:38, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Muladi

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Article: Muladi (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Regards, Jeromi Mikhael (marhata) 06:38, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) RD: Alto Reed

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: Alto Reed (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Billboard
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Renowned saxophonist and member of Bob Seger and the Silver Bullet Band. UncomfortablySmug (UncomfortablySmug) 05:28, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

December 30

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(Closed) RD: Samuel Little

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: Samuel Little (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CBS News KGET
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: American serial killer who the FBI called "the most prolific serial killer in United States history." Article is well sourced. TuckerTVG (whaddya want, loser?) 17:41, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Article is in the main well sourced, though some of those sources could be added to support confirmed and suspected victims sections JW 1961 Talk 18:52, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Support Article is well written and subject is clearly notable - "involved in at least fifty murders, the largest number of proven cases for any serial killer in United States history". Died on December 30 though not December 31. Inexpiable (talk) 20:50, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Article is good to go. Sourced and ready.BabbaQ (talk) 20:52, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - looks good from here. - The Bushranger One ping only 21:06, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: There's no source for the "Confirmed murder victims" list and the "Suspected murder victims" list is only partly referenced (the source at the end of the explanatory sentence does not have a list of victims). From a BLP point of view I feel this should be addressed - Dumelow (talk) 21:51, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • I found a second source for the suspect list (newer page from the FBI). The Confirmed ones would appear to be those already mentioned in the body so it would be a matter of bringing references down. --Masem (t) 05:09, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. This might be just a visceral dislike for articles of this sort, but the long list of suspected cases struck me as hugely problematic. It feels like a discography or filmography, glorifying his work. These victims will probably have living family. Personally I'd just delete it -- any notable ones can be discussed in the text -- but I don't edit such articles at all. It certainly needs every entry individually cited to a reliable source. Espresso Addict (talk) 06:01, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The "suspected" list strikes me as an WP:UNDUE enumeration. Sure, he defined by his collective murders, but not to the extent that they need to be in a WP:FANCRUFT table of trivial data. Do not need this on the MP.—Bagumba (talk) 09:13, 5 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Aldo Andretti

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Article: Aldo Andretti (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): WTHR, Speed Sport
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: The other half of the patriarchs of the famous Andretti open-wheel and NASCAR racing dynasty alongside his twin brother Mario. The Bushranger One ping only 20:18, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Ronald Atkins

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Article: Ronald Atkins (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: British politician, former Member of Parliament (1966–1970, 1974–1979), dies at age 104. Longest-lived former MP. Davey2116 (talk) 19:06, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) RD: Indira Joseph Venniyoor

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: Indira Joseph Venniyoor (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): New Indian Express The Hindu
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Indian radio broadcaster. A bit on the shorter side, but article has shaped to be a solid Start-class biography. C-class biography. Ktin (talk) 20:28, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Article looks good, if I had to comment on one thing, though, it would be to add some more referencing. TuckerTVG (whaddya want, loser?) 21:15, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Short but good for RD - I could only check the 3 English language sources, they seem fine. JW 1961 Talk 21:22, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Referenced and updated. MurielMary (talk) 21:54, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Black Kite: -- you might have missed posting this one when you just posted Elaine McCoy and Amelia Lapeña-Bonifacio. Please can you help post. Ktin (talk) 01:46, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Stephen, Dumelow, Bagumba, and Amakuru: -- Pardon the intrusion. Please can I request one of you to take a look. This one seems odd, maybe inadvertent, but, I think Black Kite might be offline. Appreciate a look. Ktin (talk) 02:01, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. Sorry, I can't assess this (per request below), as the key source isn't in a language I can read. The lead/infobox facts currently lack direct citations eg the year of birth. The lead could do with making clear that the two broadcasting positions mentioned are actually the same under different names. There's a lack of detail on her career, versus her childhood and personal life. Also not 100% sure on notability, to be honest -- radio news announcers have a hard time demonstrating notability; I've even seen such articles speedy tagged by new-page patrollers. I notice the two broadcasters she notes as inspiration do not appear to have articles. I don't think the two English-language articles are enough alone to fully satisfy GNG, they're very brief, and a lot of the other sources are not notability conferring. Espresso Addict (talk) 03:46, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Espresso Addict, The lede and infobox have computed dates. Don't think we will need citations for those. Regarding foreign language sources, we consistently use them. I personally have used (and others too use) a good amount of German and occasional Spanish resources on the RD submissions. That should not preclude the article, nor should it cast questions on overall notability. That said, if you'd prefer you can use a translator such as Google translate. I ran one now, and the results are not too shabby. Thanks. Ktin (talk) 05:30, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Sure, foreign language sources are fine, but someone has to check them! I can read German a little, so I tend to check those here. I would never use Google translate except to just get a quick ballpark idea of what the source might cover. Also the standards of checking necessary for a new article are higher than for an older one; anything that's survived six months here with multiple editors working on it can usually be assumed to be broadly notable. A new article can't. Espresso Addict (talk) 06:29, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Espresso Addict, I am tagging @Tachs: whom I consider as an SME on Malayalam language / Kerala related topics and articles on WP to review the sources, particularly the ones in Malayalam. Tachs pardon the bother -- can I request you to look at the Malayalam language sources if you have a bit. Thanks. Ktin (talk) 06:49, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support The article is reasonably well sourced, three of them, The Hindu, Indian Express and Mathrubhumi, are reliable sources. Regarding the quality of the article, it is a decently written one. I have suggested a few alterations, which are minor ones. --jojo@nthony (talk) 07:42, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Tachs, Thanks Tachs. Much appreciated. Ktin (talk) 07:54, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose per Espresso Addict. I looked at this one last night, and was struck by how little detail the career section had, for what was a 34 year career. Other than a catchphrase used to open her radio show, it's not clear from the article why she's significant. I decided to just pass it by rather than Oppose, as maybe others feel differently. But now EA has said the same thing I will echo it. If she really meets GNG, then there must be more detail available than what we're giving now. Cheers  — Amakuru (talk) 10:12, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Dawn Wells

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Article: Dawn Wells (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Variety
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Best known as Mary Ann from Gilligan's Island. Sourcing problems in article. Masem (t) 19:22, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) 2020 Aden airport attack

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Article: 2020 Aden airport attack (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Explosions rocked Aden airport in Yemen killing at least twenty five people soon after a plane carrying the new government arrived from Saudi Arabia. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ An attack at Aden airport shortly after the arrival of Yemen's new unity government leaves dozens dead and over one hundred injured.
News source(s): BBC, AP, Reuters, Guardian
Credits:

Article needs updating

Nominator's comments: Developing. Sherenk1 (talk) 15:03, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Abortion in Argentina

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: Abortion_in_Argentina (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Argentina become the third South American country to legalize abortion. (Post)
Credits:
 --Lmalena (talk) 15:13, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

December 29

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(Posted) RD: Agitu Ideo Gudeta

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Article: Agitu Ideo Gudeta (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Associated Press
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Ethiopian refugee farmer who was killed in Italy on December 29. TJMSmith (talk) 17:22, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I have restored this to the 7th item for now. What would be nice is some automated tracking of how long each RD is up for to get an idea of what the new expected dwell time is; 24 hours might not be achievable. Espresso Addict (talk) 01:26, 2 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: John Paul Jr.

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Article: John Paul Jr. (racing driver) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Yahoo Sports obit
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Death from Huntington's Disease of 1980s-1990s Indianapolis 500, IndyCar Series, 24 Hours of Le Mans and 24 Hours of Daytona driver with two IndyCar wins and two 24 Hours of Daytona wins, in addition to being notorious for his involvement in the 1980s drug trade. The Bushranger One ping only 23:12, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Lorraine Monk

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Article: Lorraine Monk (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Globe and Mail
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Canadian photographer and contemporary history chronogropher. Death announced on this date. Article requires good amount of work. Will get to it this evening. Done and done! Happy with the way the article has shaped up. For someone who led all those photography initiatives, it is a bit of a sad note that we do not have a photo of hers. RIP Ms. Monk. I am calling it a day, but, do not foresee major edits on this article. Good to go imo. Article now has images added. Looks beautiful. Great partnership AleatoryPonderings and Masem. Thanks folks. Ktin (talk) 22:36, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Elaine McCoy

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Article: Elaine McCoy (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://edmontonjournal.com/news/local-news/alberta-maverick-elaine-mccoy-remembered-as-strong-voice-in-canadian-senate
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: C class article on Canadian Senator; updated and fully referenced MurielMary (talk) 11:30, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment death is now mentioned, and I note from the guidelines on article quality for RD that "one or two "citation needed" tags may not hold up an article" therefore the missing refs shouldn't prevent this nomination from being posted. MurielMary (talk) 18:47, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Howard J. Rubenstein

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Article: Howard J. Rubenstein (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NY Post
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American PR mogul - Dumelow (talk) 08:44, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Luke Letlow

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Article: Luke Letlow (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): MSN
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: U.S. congressman-elect from Louisiana's fifth congressional district. UncomfortablySmug (talk) 02:47, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Josefina Echánove

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Article: Josefina Echánove (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.gob.mx/cultura/prensa/la-secretaria-de-cultura-y-el-inbal-lamentan-el-deceso-de-josefina-echanove?idiom=es>
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Mexican television and film actress MurielMary (talk) 00:48, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Can you clarify which part of the guideline on the quality of RD articles you consider has not been met, with regards to the guidelines here: https://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Wikipedia:In_the_news#Article_quality ? TIA MurielMary (talk) 11:34, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
MurielMary, other than the filmography (set of bullets) this article is currently a stub. We have not promoted articles of a stubby nature to homepage / RD in the past. Ktin (talk) 11:39, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. It is under 1500 characters of prose per the DYK counter. I'd expect more on a selection of her notable film roles from reviews or similar. There isn't even a comment on her two award nominations, beyond the fact of the nominations, and those films are not listed in the filmography. Not an expert in fair-use custom here (it's a lot stricter than the UK norms), but we've often held off putting such images into articles until a few months after death, to allow a full search to be made for free images. @The Rambling Man: for an expert opinion. Espresso Addict (talk) 02:58, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Well yes, it seems unlikely that in the time between her death and the upload of the image that a satisfactory amount of searching and requesting for a free image has been conducted. I would oppose all the while that non-free image is there. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 08:18, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Amelia Lapeña-Bonifacio

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Article: Amelia Lapeña-Bonifacio (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Manila Bulletin
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Filipino playwright, puppeteer, and educator. Article needs some work. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 16:51, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) 2020 Petrinja earthquake

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Article: 2020 Petrinja earthquake (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A magnitude 6.4 earthquake strikes Petrinja, Croatia, with many injuries and at least one death. (Post)
News source(s): BBC, AP, Reuters)
Credits:
Article updated

 Sherenk1 (talk) 13:54, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Pierre Cardin

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: Pierre Cardin (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  Italian-French fashion designer Pierre Cardin dies at the age of 98. (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Legendary fashion designer. Needs work. Black Kite (talk) 12:41, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

December 28

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(Posted) RD: H. Jack Geiger

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Article: H. Jack Geiger (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NYT
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Doctor who pioneered social medicine; cofounded two physicians’ groups that won Nobel Peace Prizes. Innisfree987 (talk) 04:30, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Adele Rose

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Article: Adele Rose (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/uk-news/emotional-tributes-paid-after-death-19538005
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Longest-serving scriptwriter for Coronation StreetMurielMary (talk) 12:40, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment has been expanded as more obituaries published in the last few hours. MurielMary (talk) 19:07, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Ktin: I was working from the bottom, per recent exhortations as well as past practice. This was marked ready before I commented; I don't track the order of marking as ready, there are better uses of time. I never post anything without reading it carefully and at least spot-checking the sources, which often results in substantive editing and a lot of nitpicking and back & forth. Black Kite posted several while I was working on this one; I don't know why they didn't post yours. Which is it? Espresso Addict (talk) 02:48, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Espresso Addict:, Indira Joseph Venniyoor. Black Kite posted the one before this and the one after this. Ktin (talk) 02:51, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Romell Broom

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Article: Romell Broom (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American murderer on death row. There's a couple of dead links that could do with replacing and perhaps some more detail would be beneficial - Dumelow (talk) 08:36, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I always find it interesting when looking over the RD page that the average article on a criminal tends to be so much better than that of artists, politicians, businesspeople. Articles on sports people tend to be either one-line sub-stubs or mammoth unsourced musings - Dumelow (talk) 11:44, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I must admit, I'm sad that Barbara Rose, a life full of interest and achievement, is likely to be dropped off for this. Espresso Addict (talk) 12:05, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) Probably because criminals are a more sensitive subject, so uncited content gets removed quickly. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 12:08, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Paul-Heinz Dittrich

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Article: Paul-Heinz Dittrich (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Deutschlandfunk
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Influential German composer, trained in the East, but not ready to compromise, so earlier performed in the West, studies at IRCAM in Paris, teacher in the U.S., Israel, South Korea. - The article was there, but practically without inline citations. Created this year, better than only after he died. Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:07, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Posted - Dumelow (talk) 11:47, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Dumelow, Thanks. We could have let the carousel go to 7 for a bit here. Ktin (talk) 11:50, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Ktin, the displaced RD K. C. Jones had been up for 23 hours which I consider sufficient to not break the guideline. I appreciate people's opinions on this vary and am more than happy if another admin wants to re-add Jones - Dumelow (talk) 12:09, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Dumelow, fair enough. I guess I have been greedily hoping for 36 hours (or at least 24 hours). Anyways, onwards and upwards. Thanks for your note and for all that you do. Ktin (talk) 12:12, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Fou Ts'ong

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Article: Fou Ts'ong (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://polskieradio24.pl/5/1223/Artykul/2648969,Zmarl-chinski-pianista-Fou-Ts%E2%80%99Ong-Laureat-nagrody-V-Konkursu-Chopinowskiego; https://www.thestandard.com.hk/breaking-news/section/3/162118/Pianist-Fou-Ts'ong-dies-of-coronavirus-disease; https://nifc.pl/pl/home/aktualnosci/music/55/
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Internationally renowned Chinese-born pianist; died of COVID-19 today in London. I did some work on the article, and it should be ready to go. Zingarese talk · contribs 04:57, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

On further reading, I agree with AleatoryPonderings that the tone is too promotional. Espresso Addict (talk) 06:52, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Short but to the point. Espresso Addict (talk) 06:01, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. Rather a promotional tone at present. Hopefully someone can neutralise it a bit. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 05:19, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    @AleatoryPonderings: Care to elaborate? I think this article presents the information in RS in a very neutral way.Zingarese talk · contribs 05:48, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    I find sentences like Noted by The New York Times for his "sensitive ear for color", "elusive gift of melody", and his "impetuous spirit", Fou was one of the first Chinese-born pianists to achieve international fame and A performing and teaching career that took him throughout the world continued, and he was acclaimed not only for his interpretations of Chopin, but many other composers, including Haydn, Mozart concerning. The NYT bit in particular strikes me as undue, and reads rather like album liner notes. There is also the (currently error-flagged) quote, apparently from a primary source, describing him as one of the greatest pianists of our times. In my view, that would have to be backed up by a secondary source to be of appropriate weight. (It is also not especially informative; what makes one a "great" pianist, in context?) I would also like to know what persecuted means in the personal life section, but that's obviously not a promo issue. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 06:03, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    couldnt disagree more with you.It wasn’t just some random people who said these things; they were music critics from the world’s biggest newspapers. Look at the GA Radu Lupu for example. Also the quote from Argerich, Fleisher, and Lupu is just their opinion and their declaration. But since they are among the most important musicians of their generation, it’s a very notable thing to include. Also,if you look into it, Fou’s parents faced political persecution by the CCP during the Cultural Revolution , leading them to die by suicide. Zingarese talk · contribs 06:33, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • @AleatoryPonderings: @Espresso Addict: I've attempted to alleviate your concerns; please let me know if this suffices. I still disagree with the view that this article's tone was promotional to begin with, but I will happily compromise, especially if it means not killing this article's chances of being featured in RD. Zingarese talk · contribs 22:59, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    My promo concerns have been addressed. Sourcing looks good too, although I don't read Polish and so am unable to evaluate some sources. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 23:03, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The BBC has deigned to notice his passing now, though the Guardian is still silent, so I'll have a look and see if I can improve further. Espresso Addict (talk) 01:50, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Martin Lambie-Nairn

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Article: Martin Lambie-Nairn (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Noted graphic designer. Died on Christmas day but only announced today. yorkshiresky (talk) 15:42, 28 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Stale) RD: Armando Manzanero

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: Armando Manzanero (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC in Spanish
Credits:

Article needs updating
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Mexican Grammy awarded singer-songwriter. Article needs work. Alsoriano97 (talk) 14:57, 28 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Stale) RD: Mahinder Watsa

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: Mahinder Watsa (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Indian sexologist Sherenk1 (talk) 06:53, 28 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

December 27

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Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology


(Posted) RD: Yuichiro Hata

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Article: Yuichiro Hata (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): http://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/photo/36590092
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: COVID-19-related death of a Japanese representative and former MLIT Minister.  ❯❯❯ Mccunicano☕️ 18:49, 28 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

December 26

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Armed conflicts and attacks

  • Israeli–Palestinian conflict
    • The Israeli military (IDF) carries out several airstrikes in the Gaza Strip, in response to overnight rocket attacks in Israel. IDF says it targeted a rocket manufacturing site, underground infrastructure and a military post. Two minor injuries are reported. The attacks caused power outages in the eastern part of the strip. Hamas claims the strikes damaged a children's hospital, a centre for disabled people, and damaged the windows of several residential buildings. IDF claims that the damage was due to detonations of ground munitions. (Al Jazeera) (The Times of Israel)
  • Kashmir conflict
    • India arrests 75 Kashmiri political leaders and activists for "preventive custody" due to recent violence following local elections. (Al Jazeera)

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sports


(Posted) RD: Robin Jackman

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Article: Robin Jackman (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Cricinfo
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Indian-born English and South-African cricketer. Much loved for his commentary. Article was in a very good condition. Needs sourcing across the board, which I will work on in the next couple of hours. Sourcing is complete. Did not have to do any content edits. If someone wants any other edits incorporated, please let me know. RIP. Thanks for all the memories. Ktin

(Posted) RD: Phil Niekro

edit
Article: Phil Niekro (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [5]
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 – Muboshgu (talk) 17:53, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  PostedBagumba (talk) 01:09, 28 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Brodie Lee

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Article: Brodie Lee (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Jerusalem Post, ESPN
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Professional wrestler (real name Jon Huber) with two of the biggest promotions in the United States. GaryColemanFan (talk) 01:57, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

And it's gone already. Who cares if it's a very good article that won 8-0, Karima Baloch, who wasn't even notable in life, needs her week for one Support vote. I knew the wrestling curse wasn't over, never getting fooled again. InedibleHulk (talk) 02:08, 28 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
InedibleHulk, no need to speak ill about someone, particularly folks who are no longer here. That said, your larger point is valid. This new mode of posting will NOT work when inflow (new RDs) and outflow (posts onto homepage) are not roughly synchronized (rate of inflow is equal to the rate of outflow), unless Admins and Editors work the articles from the bottom of the stack.
I'm not speaking ill. As a human, I feel for her survivors. But as a historical figure, our editors only noticed her death, it is what it is. Anyway, I featured him on my Talk Page. Never getting stale there, rubes! InedibleHulk (talk) 03:22, 28 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It is in extraordinarily poor taste to dance on the grave of an activist while comparing her unfavourably to a professional wrestler. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 04:27, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
And it is in extraordinarily poor taste to accuse other posters of 'dancing on someone's grave' when they have done nothing of the kind. Please do not assume bad faith. Effy Midwinter (talk) 18:37, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for noticing. To be clearer, I have no feelings for or against Baloch or her work, never heard of either before this. But the article objectively has less information, had way fewer editors working on it for a much briefer time and got less support here than Huber's life story, which is six days more recently in the news. InedibleHulk (talk) 02:56, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I just had the same thing happen with Shamsur Rahman Faruqi and Sugathakumari. Good on User:Espresso Addict for restoring the former. Maybe given the huge backlog, Admins restore RDs until Brodie Lee and spill over into the third line which imo is not a big deal particularly because we have a reduced set of news blurbs currently.
@Stephen, Amakuru, Dumelow, MSGJ, Bagumba, and Espresso Addict: Ktin (talk) 03:14, 28 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I doubt there's consensus for more than 7 items. Personally I'd nuke all the stale news (which is arguably all of it) and fill with RDs imitating the German "Kürzlich Verstorbene" system, but I know I won't get consensus for that. (Probably best to take this to the talk page?) Espresso Addict (talk) 03:22, 28 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Espresso Addict, thanks. Just took it to the talkpage. My vote is to temporarily restore all RDs until Brodie Lee and spill over into three lines. There is sufficient space and we have some space created by the news blurbs which are down to 3 currently. Thanks. Ktin (talk) 03:36, 28 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Extended content
Ho-ly shit! Ho-ly shit! Seriously, call The Signpost, if even The Rambling Man is marking out, that's a sign of something alright! InedibleHulk (talk) 09:36, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed, my standards for the main page are high, no shame in that. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 11:07, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nothing to be too proud of, either, this bio met all seven other judges' standards. InedibleHulk (talk) 11:31, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Who said anything about being proud, just doing the job properly. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 14:28, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
No pride, no shame, pure unanimous propriety. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:12, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Jim McLean

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Article: Jim McLean (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Successful manager of Dundee United; led them to a Scottish league championship (1982–83) and an appearance in the 1987 UEFA Cup Final. Inducted to the Scottish Football Hall of Fame in 2005. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 20:24, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: George Blake

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Article: George Blake (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC News
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Bruzaholm (talk) 10:24, 26 December 2020 (UTC))[reply]

December 25

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Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

Law and crime

Sports


(Posted) RD: Barbara Rose

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Article: Barbara Rose (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NYT
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American art historian. Needs work. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 04:00, 28 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support A lot of work has been done in the article. I think is ready. Alexcalamaro (talk) 17:53, 28 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. Shaping up well, but not ready yet, imo. There needs to be more chronological detail; where was she between 1985 and her death, for example? ""ABC Art", her influential 1965 essay, outlined the main philosophical currents of minimalism." isn't really sourced; the article discusses what was in the essay, but not what/how/who it influenced (and what does "philosophical currents" even mean?) There are too many journal/other writing publications; this should be slimmed to the most influential. The filmography comes out of nowhere... her film making is mentioned in the lead but nowhere described. The lead needs filling out. Espresso Addict (talk) 00:09, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Espresso Addict, Noted, but could you please tone it down when critiquing the language I've chosen? Calling my wording "pretentious" is overkill, especially when the article directly describes Alain Robbe-Grillet and Ludwig Wittgenstein, two philosophers, as key to Rose's analysis. Perhaps the wording wasn't apt, but it was in good faith. You can feel free to trim the publications as you see fit—I am not wedded to including any of them. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 00:41, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Such (am I allowed flowery?) language is only ever permissible in the mouth of a expert, as a direct quotation. Apologies for offending you, I'd assumed it was in the article before expansion. I can't readily trim the pubs as I am not an expert in American 20th-century art history criticism. Google Scholar citations suggest that three of her books, "ABC art" plus an essay on Orlan that isn't listed get significant citations. I doubt I'd be popular if I slimmed it to that... Espresso Addict (talk) 01:12, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Espresso Addict, Go ahead and do it. Publication lists, especially when extensive, are, IMO, rarely that useful. I am far from an expert either; I think Scholar cites are as fair a criterion as any. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 01:23, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I've slashed the non-books; let's see if it sticks. I usually include all (co-)authored books and all edited books that don't look ephemeral (conference proceedings), but I mainly work on scientists and I know non-science fields often publish more by book/monograph than journal. Espresso Addict (talk) 01:57, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Reginald Foster

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Article: Reginald Foster (Latinist) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): New York Times Vatican News
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Latinist to four popes, pioneer of living Latin education. Schoen (talk) 01:45, 28 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Tony Rice

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Article: Tony Rice (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Variety
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Leading bluegrass musician. Article is not in good shape, needing a lot of sourcing. Masem (t) 05:01, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Barry Lopez

edit
Article: Barry Lopez (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian (AP report)
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American nature writer. Not very long, but not a stub. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 03:22, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • The going requirement at ITN for citations for the mere existence of a book (not its awards) strikes me as overkill, especially when {{authority control}} exists. I'll try to find some, but really—the existence of a book, which can be quickly verified by the simplest of Google searches, is not something that requires {{cn}}. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 17:04, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Shamsur Rahman Faruqi

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Article: Shamsur Rahman Faruqi (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Indian Express
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Indian Urdu poet. Padma Shri awardee. Article can do with a good amount of edits. I will work in it later tonight. Edits and article expansion done. Solid C-class biography. Meets hygiene requirements for homepage / RD. Ktin (talk) 02:37, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Danny Hodge

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Article: Danny Hodge (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): WWE Figure Four Wrestling
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Olympic wrestler and medal winner. Professional wrestler enshrined in numerous halls of fame. GaryColemanFan (talk) 19:35, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Soumaïla Cissé

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Article: Soumaïla Cissé (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Reuters Le Monde
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Opposition leader of Mali. Article needs work. Alsoriano97 (talk) 21:24, 25 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: K. C. Jones

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Article: K. C. Jones (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): ESPN
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Needs sourcing – Muboshgu (talk) 20:36, 25 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Michael Alig

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Article: Michael Alig (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The New York Daily News
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: The Club Kid Killer. UncomfortablySmug (talk) 6:40, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

Armenia protests

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Article: 2020 Armenian protests (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: 2020 Armenian protests grow again calling for the resignation of Nikol Pashinyan. (Post)
News source(s): NBC News
Credits:
Article updated

Nominator's comments: There was a link here, but it's gone. It should be back as the protests have been the largest yet this week. Not to mention all that noise I hear :) 2A02:2A57:173D:0:A880:FE7:F406:82D3 (talk) 16:57, 24 December 2020 (UTC) 2A02:2A57:173D:0:3C22:E327:9689:F0F2 (talk) 16:37, 25 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The article kind of updated to this week. I've not edited much here, but post on the Talk page,can someone help to update?2A02:2A57:173D:0:3C22:E327:9689:F0F2 (talk) 16:37, 25 December 2020 (UTC) I did a little update and posted in the talk page the links. The part about Nikol rejecting I didn't find, but I didn't look hard enough.2A02:2A57:173D:0:3C22:E327:9689:F0F2 (talk) 17:05, 25 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Nashville bombing

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: 2020 Nashville bombing (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: A vehicle explosion in downtown Nashville, Tennessee is characterized as an intentional act and leaves at least one person dead. (Post)
News source(s): NBC News, AP (new), Guardian, Tennessean (new)
Credits:
 UncomfortablySmug (talk) 4:17, 25 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Oppose. No article. Even if there was, this were no fatalities. Thankfully only 3 injuries and property damage. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 16:27, 25 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Closed per WP:SNOW WaltCip (talk) 16:28, 25 December 2020 (UTC) [reply]
  • Support and reopened. There is an article and there is clearly at least one death so far. While it might not reach consensus, to WP:SNOW is pre-mature. Also at this point the oppose is also based on assertions which have changed. Albertaont (talk) 23:54, 25 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. This is in the news and the article is in good shape. -- Tavix (talk) 00:29, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong oppose. The only reason this is in the news is because it happened in the US. Had this happened in say, Germany, everyone would have ignored it. Only 3 people were injured, and to the best of our knowledge, there are no confirmed fatalities so far. This is not important on an international scale, and should be put under WP:SNOW. The Image Editor (talk) 00:38, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • We have had a lively debate on ITN when similar attacks happened in France and Austria a few months ago, I dont recall what the final outcome was, but to say "Had this happened in say, Germany, everyone would have ignored it." is not correct if we just look back at ITN. Albertaont (talk) 02:44, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • Those discussions ended in no consensus, and were not posted. That gives even more reason for this to NOT post this onto ITN. I will admit, that the Germany comparison was in bad faith, but I still think that this doesn’t even approach the threshold of international news. If this somehow gets posted, I would argue that it would dramatically lower the standard of what is ITN worthy. But then again, who am I to judge. The Image Editor (talk) 02:51, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support: definitely on the front pages of many news agencies, even outside the US. Singapore, UK, Germany, Brazil.  Bait30  Talk 2 me pls? 01:01, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support: The building collapse makes it front page worthy. Unknown-Tree (talk) 02:25, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait: Too much is unknown at present, such as whether there were any fatalities. TompaDompa (talk) 03:39, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose This is still being considered as a domestic situation, and there is at most one possible death, typically far lower than what we would post. --Masem (t) 04:03, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose We don't have enough information currently to judge the significance of the attack and so far it seems like a small-scale incident. Plus, if we were to post this, then we would be setting the bar too low for these types of events Scaramouche33 (talk) 05:39, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait until we know if people were killed & if it was a bombing by a terrorist group. If it was a lone-wolf attack in which there were no deaths or only one, it's not important enough for ITN. Jim Michael (talk) 13:07, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose trivia. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 13:08, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Wait – Puzzling & mysterious, thus interesting, but lacking in general significance – though that could change if the investigation uncovers evidence of terrorism. – Sca (talk) 14:03, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment – Law enforcement seeks "person of interest." [6] [7]Sca (talk) 22:15, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I got it right the first time. WaltCip-(talk) 02:40, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support: Is it in the news? Yes, globally (per links posted above). Are readers interested in it? Yes: nearly 80,000 page views on day 1 of the article [8]. Is the article of sufficient quality? Yes. Therefore: post it. It doesn't matter what country it happened in. BTW, the significance is in the mysteriousness of the incident, the size of the bomb, and the widespread AT&T telecom outage, which is now in its second day. I would suggest maybe an alternate blurb like "A vehicle explosion in downtown Nashville, Tennessee results in three injuries and widespread damage and outages." Levivich harass/hound 04:06, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • It does matter where it happened. This is the US, and I apologize to the rest of the world but we're basically idiots here when it comes to gun ownership and stuff like this. This is stuff that happens far too frequently here that, unless we're taking major death and destruction, we skip over these topics because they are "routine" for the US. Now, sure , maybe there's something in the investigation thta proves out something far more sinister than what currently seems as a typical US whack job to prove worthwhile to post, but this isn't anything damaging like the Boston Marathon bombings. --Masem (t) 06:43, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      There is nothing routine about this RV full of explosives that detonated in downtown Nashville after blaring a siren and audio warning to evacuate the area. The US hasn't had a vehicle bomb attack like this in ... I don't remember the last one. There is nothing routine about grounded flights, 911 being down, mobile phones, and landlines being down, in a three-state area, for two days. The US hasn't had an outage like that in ... even the California wildfires didn't produce outages of that scale; I don't remember the last time all communications were down in such a large area. An attack doesn't have to be the Boston Marathon bombings--the second-worst terrorist attack in US history, probably--in order to be worthy of ITN. And honestly, editors' subjective personal opinions about the importance of the event should not matter at all; 80,000 readers are interested, but a dozen Wikipedia editors think it's routine, so we don't list it? How does that make sense? The only things that should matter are: (1) Do readers want the information? (2) Do we have the information? Levivich harass/hound 07:13, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        • This is only of trivial interest because it happened in the US. It has no long-term impact, it is of extremely limited notability, and is only making news because besides Covid, there's nothing else for the US press to get on top of, since Trump has at last become a boring sideshow. This is almost unencyclopedic. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 08:24, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
          • To add, the latest story on this is that the person of interest, believed to be the person that died in the incident, had paranoia over 5G (not unlike what we've already seen previously in the UK with 5G towers being burned down) and may have specifically targetted the local AT&T building because of that paranoia, and not so much as a "act of terrorism". [9] Making this even less of an appropriate story to post here. --Masem (t) 16:02, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose If my memory of unprecedented developing crimes serves me faithfully (and I've seen dozens), our editors can't handle the information! Not just kidding, either. Wikipedia is historically inaccurate (often prejudicially so) while investigations continue. InedibleHulk (talk) 08:11, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose there's lots of facets to this particular posting debate that have already been hashed out above, and in my view, the mysteriousness doesn't add to notability here. It's not an impactful mystery like missing people or backwards trials, it's "why did a bomb go off with nobody around", and the confusion over who and what and why in this case makes it less (not more) notable. We don't know what's happening, we don't know what the blurb really should be to be accurate. If the AT&T outages last any longer, because 911 is still down the last I heard, then we could consider posting that: "large parts of Tennessee and Kentucky are without cellular power or 911 access after bla bla bla" is an unusual and newsworthy blurb with widespread human impact. Kingsif (talk) 09:38, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – for now — Starting to look as though a solitary IT person, one Anthony Q. Warner, blew himself up. – Sca (talk) 19:24, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
  • Post-close comment: Half a million page views in the first six days of this article's existence, but ITNC !voters know better what's of interest to readers? This is another example of ITNC participants, en masse, putting their own personal, subjective views about what is or is not "important" above what is of interest to readers. This article is of more interest to our readers than everything else on ITN right now combined. Levivich harass/hound 19:01, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Metekel massacre

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Article: Metekel massacre (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Ethiopian National Defense Force clashes with armed bandits involved in Metekel massacre, killing 42 of them and seizing weapons. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The Ethiopian National Defense Force responds to the Metekel massacre of 100 people by killing 42 suspects and arresting seven officials.
Alternative blurb II: ​ The Metekel massacre of 100 people continues a sporadic cycle of massacres in the Metekel conflict in Ethiopia ongoing since 2019.
News source(s): Al Arabiya English
Credits:

Article updated

 Sherenk1 (talk) 11:33, 25 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose on quality way too many red links,plus a cn tag. Weak oppose otherwise, the death toll is pretty high, but the Tigray conflict is already in the ongoing section and if the massacre is part of the conflict,then I don't think a separate blurb is needed Scaramouche33 (talk) 12:02, 25 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
In that case, weak support. I still think that the article is too short for a blurb,but hopefully it will expanded in the next few days Scaramouche33 (talk) 05:45, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment The much bigger massacre earlier did not go through mostly on the grounds of poor article quality and the main topic already being in ongoing. Seeing similar issues in here as well especially with the article as a barebones stub. Gotitbro (talk) 12:44, 25 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The Metekel conflict & Metekel massacre are both very new articles which have neither been nominated before, nor been in ongoing. Are you thinking of the Tigray conflict & one of the massacres that's part of that? Jim Michael (talk) 12:54, 25 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I am talking about the Mai Kadra massacre that was nominated some time ago. Gotitbro (talk) 14:20, 25 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
That's part of the Tigray conflict & happened several weeks earlier in a different region of Ethiopia. The Tigray conflict being in ongoing isn't relevant to this nomination, because the Metekel conflict has never been in ongoing. Jim Michael (talk) 15:34, 25 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
That's an argument against the original blurb, not against the posting of the article. An alternative blurb is listed. There's an empty spot for altblurb2. Boud (talk) 01:38, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, it's the massacre that's the much more notable event. What should the alt blurb be? Jim Michael (talk) 10:55, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
There was already one alternative blurb, but since the reaction of the authorities is considered less important than the massacre itself, I've proposed ALT II above, which is The Metekel massacre of 100 people continues a sporadic cycle of massacres in the Metekel conflict in Ethiopia ongoing since 2019. While I think that the authorities killing 42 suspects is significant, we have no info on whether this was a minimal use of force or extrajudicial executions, or a mix of the two, and the broader context - an ongoing armed conflict in this zone - seems more relevant for the blurb. Boud (talk) 11:19, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

RD: John Edrich

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Article: John Edrich (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: England international cricketer. Article needs work. Black Kite (talk) 10:40, 25 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Ivry Gitlis

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Article: Ivry Gitlis (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Israeli virtuoso violinist. Lots of ref issues. Sherenk1 (talk) 06:46, 25 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

December 24

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Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

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Politics and elections


RD: John Cremona

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Article: John Cremona (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Times of Malta
Credits:

Article needs updating
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Former acting President of Malta, drafter of national Constitution. Article needs work Alsoriano97 (talk) 18:51, 28 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) UK-EU trade deal

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Articles: Trade negotiation between the UK and the EU (talk · history · tag) and EU–UK Trade and Cooperation Agreement (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The trade negotiation following Brexit agrees the EU–UK Trade and Cooperation Agreement. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The EU and the UK agree on a Trade and Cooperation Agreement to govern their relationship after Brexit.
News source(s): BBC, NYTimes, AP, Reuters
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Statements have been made by all the major parties. There will be lots of relief at getting this done by Christmas. I've added a suitable picture of lorries at Dover but no doubt there are other possibilities. Andrew🐉(talk) 16:07, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Of course not, but we do reasonably expect some degree of high-level agreement points, stuff that I expect that the BBC and other good sources will have summarized in the next few hours. (this is similar to how we have summarizies of the key points of the massive spending bill in the US Congress in the press some hours after it was first published). We can wait for WP to be updated with that. --Masem (t) 16:58, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't recall asking for "fine print and minutiae", but when I looked at the article, it said (unreferenced) "a deal had been agreed", but gave no insight whatsoever as to the nature of the deal. Hardly encyclopedic, is it? The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 19:29, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I've been watching the news coverage and it seems clear that there will be over a thousand pages of dense legal text which will be gone through now by teams of lawyers, lobbyists and politicians. They will then give their various opinions and Laura Kuenssberg just said that "a tally of the wins and losses may take years to settle". For example, while we've heard a lot about fish, it turns out that chips are big deal for some too. Or is that really just small potatoes? Anyway, the part which I enjoyed most was Larry's ferocious rush at a deal of his own! Andrew🐉(talk) 20:18, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose only that we should have details of what has been agreed to in the deal at this point in the article, as per the sources, this isn't the end stage and more negotiations are still to come on less critical matters, but this prevents pending severe issues that were to have occurred if no deal at all had been reached by 1 Jan. --Masem (t) 16:14, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • It's best to wait until the specifics about the trade deal are released to the public so that the article can be properly updated. However, I think creating a separate article would be better Scaramouche33 (talk) 17:11, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    support the new article has been properly updated Scaramouche33 (talk) 16:56, 28 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Looks like this isn't exactly final yet, let's wait till it is actually signed. Gotitbro (talk) 18:27, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment The article may need a little more cooking, but I think the agreement is news today. All the best: Rich Farmbrough 21:20, 24 December 2020 (UTC).[reply]
    I agree the news is notable right now, but with a single-sentence update which makes no real mention of the overall themes in the agreement, it's far from an encyclopedic update to post to the main page. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 21:22, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait until it has actually been ratified and we know it will actually enter into force. Yakikaki (talk) 22:36, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Guys, if the last four years of news have taught us anything, it's that an agreement isn't final until it's final. No one has a damn clue what this deal means yet. Can we not wait until we at least get said clue? WaltCip-(talk) 22:40, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I also find the proposed image highly unsuitable; the recent traffic jams are due to corona restrictions and have nothing to do with this article. Yakikaki (talk) 22:43, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    That's not true. There were massive queues before the borders were closed down as hauliers rushed to get jobs done before a potential no-deal Brexit scuppered things. But the image is not appropriate because it conflates two separate stories. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 22:45, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support in principle, this is a huge deal in terms of scope and absolute numbers. I don't feel it appropriate to wait for formal ratification in this instance since it it expected to be put into operation on a provisional basis ahead of that. OTOH the text of the deal has not yet been released, all we have now are some headline summaries of some key issues. In the absence of actual details just yet I can't see how a true substantive update can be made, there are bound to be controversies that emerge once to text is in the public domain. 3142 (talk) 00:17, 25 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Summary versions of the deal are online here and here and these seem to be the main primary sources for press analysis and comment so far. As we're locked down, I may spend some time today looking through them but, right now, I'm going out for some exercise. Brr... Andrew🐉(talk) 07:40, 25 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support – in principle, pending expansion of article (by homebound Brits?). Coverage abundant, significance obvious. Alas, the fact that today is Christmas may retard editorial progress. Cheers! – Sca (talk) 14:01, 25 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Ninety-two footnotes, 4,200 words as of 22:30. – Sca (talk) 22:41, 25 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support I don't see why this isn't obviously ITN material. It's in the news, it was in the news before it happened and will be in the news for some time longer. Banedon (talk) 11:09, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Because the update comprises "On 24 December, the parties announced that a deal had been reached.[81]" and the article still says "This section summarises the sides' statements of their respective positions at the beginning of negotiations. It may be that these will change in a final agreement (if concluded)." so supporting an article that is clearly inadequately updated is the reason why this obviously isn't ITN material at this time. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 11:28, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Coverage continues – two current sources added above. – Sca (talk) 14:10, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Coverage and notability are not being questioned here. The paucity of the "update" is the issue. The article hasn't even been properly updated for the passage of events and yet people are still supporting it?! The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 14:13, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Compris.Sca (talk) 14:22, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
For example, BBC has a quick summary points that would be an excellent way to start off a section to get it ready to be posted without having to read any of the actual trade deal itself or engage in OR of what's important. Took 2 minutes to find that when looking. --Masem (t) 14:22, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe it's figgy-pudding-lag? – Sca (talk) 14:26, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Brexitapathy. I don't think most of us really care, it's a deal which won't suit a single person, so no-one can be arsed to actually even bother to update the article. But there you go, it still gets support despite that. Perhaps ITN is even more borked than we all think. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 14:29, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
P'r'aps we're all borking up the wrong tree here. – Sca (talk) 15:00, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Update Many news sources report that the full text has been published now but few of them provide a link. But I've chased that down and here's the relevant page at the European Commission. I find that we have a page specifically for the agreement and editors have been busy updating that today. I have accordingly updated the nomination, expanding the blurb to link to the agreement as the highlighted article. Andrew🐉(talk) 19:05, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • It needs ratifying by the EU nations and the U.K Parliament, the EU are meeting to agree a provisional application so that it can come into force on 1st January which will happen in the EU Parliament on 31st December and the U.K parliament are meeting to vote on implementing the agreement on the 30 December.
Treaty Links
See the EU-UK Trade and Cooperation Agreement
(Under external links)
The article has been updated to reflect the current status.
ChefBear01 (talk) 21:30, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support — It's in the news, the article is of sufficient quality, and while it doesn't get any pageviews, that's because it's new and barely linked. However, the spike in pageviews of Brexit [10] demonstrates reader interest. So, it fulfills ITN's purposes. Post it. Levivich harass/hound 04:16, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    It doesn't fulfil ITN's purpose of providing information readers will be looking for, i.e. it just says a deal has been done. Even the more specific article just highlights which topics were covered in the agreement, but fundamentally not how each of those topics were resolved and agreed upon which is precisely the information readers want to read. That "a deal has been done" is all very well, but as an encyclopedia, we should be capable of summarising the key aspects of the deal (the EU managed to do that within a couple of hours of the agreement). In other words: no-one is looking to Wikipedia to see if a deal has been done, we all know that. We want to know what the deal means. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 08:57, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    (This is moot now as it's been posted, but I only noticed this reply today.) I think readers will hear about the Brexit deal in the news, and then go to Wikipedia not to learn about the deal, but to learn about Brexit. The latest information about the deal is provided by the media. The background information is where Wikipedia is extremely useful. The article about the deal provides background info on the deal (as does the Brexit article). And the uptick in Brexit pageviews supports this theory that readers hear about something in the news and then come to Wikipedia for the background information. Levivich harass/hound 04:07, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment It's great that an actual article was made for the agreement, however, currently the article only mentions areas covered by the agreement. I'm assuming that our readers will mostly be interested in the specifics. So a basic overview for each area would be a nice edition. But the document itself is 1200 pages!! Doesn't any news outlet actually talk about the specifics of the agreement so that editors can use them instead? Scaramouche33 (talk) 07:02, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Be careful what you wish for. Once you get into the weeds of the detail, you find that there is indeed hundreds of pages of it. I took a look at the fisheries detail, for example. The press and politicians talk of a headline figure of 25% but that doesn't seem to appear in the document or its annexes. Instead, you have a huge table of quotas by species and year. So, for example, the quota for the Blue Shark goes 99.9% to the EU. Why does the UK get only 0.1% and how was that figure arrived at? It's not clear. What about other sharks like the Great White Shark? Are they included in the category "Deep-sea sharks" which goes 100% to the EU? It's not clear. What about whales? It doesn't say. What about scallops, which actually caused a minor war in 2012? It doesn't say. My impression is that it's mostly business as usual with a new fudge factor being added to the spreadsheet that is used by the bureaucrats that try to control the quotas. That's the main take-home message – that there won't be a massive no-deal shock to the system on January 1 – just lots of fiddly adjustments. Andrew🐉(talk) 10:36, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • No, the EU released a three-page summary of changes a few days ago, it was quite straight forward, however no-one can be bothered to update even the new article to reflect this. Frankly the article as it stands is not helpful at all as all we know is "a deal was done" and it covered "a lot of things" but we have absolutely no idea of the impact of the agreement on those "lots of things". All we have is "Brexit deal was done" and that's not helpful to any of our readers. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 11:06, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

December 23

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Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology


(Posted) RD: Joseph Bachelder III

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Article: Joseph Bachelder III (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): WSJ
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American lawyer. Death announced on this day. Article has shaped to a solid C-class biography. Appreciate eyes on the article before it goes stale. Ktin (talk) 18:12, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Rebecca Luker

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Article: Rebecca Luker (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NBC News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 19:25, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Leslie West

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Article: Leslie West (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Chicago Tribune, Rolling Stone
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: From Mountain and West, Bruce and Laing. The article isn't great. -- a lad insane (channel two) 23:27, 23 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) South African COVID strain causing severe illness in young people has spread to Britain

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: COVID-19 pandemic (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ South African COVID strain causing severe illness in young people has spread to Britain (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article needs updating
Nominator's comments: "Clinicians have been providing anecdotal evidence of a shift in the clinical epidemiological picture- in particular noting that they are seeing a larger proportion of younger patients with no co-morbidities presenting with critical illness. " Count Iblis (talk) 20:21, 23 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) Kernowite

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: Kernowite (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A newly-discovered mineral (pictured) is named Kernowite, after the Cornish name for Cornwall (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Rare for a new mineral to be named. Article needs expanding. Mjroots (talk) 15:58, 23 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support on notability, Strong oppose on quality. While this is a rare occurrence and normally would be ITN worthy, the article in question has 57 words and only two references. The article is a stub if I’ve ever seen one and honestly, I don’t see it getting up to scratch. The Image Editor (talk) 16:57, 23 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Sugathakumari

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Article: Sugathakumari (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The News Minute
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Indian poet and feminist activist. News of death is still coming out right now. The Image Editor (talk) 06:11, 23 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment. Not checked the sourcing but on a quick glance the tone needs work in places (esp. her death, the Abhaya material) and it's not been updated for tense throughout. The details on her notable relatives could do with pruning a bit. The awards in the infobox need pruning to the most important. Need to go offline now but will try to work on this later. Espresso Addict (talk) 02:39, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I've hacked at some of this. The lead needs to discuss her writing (which I assume is her primary source of notability?) The awards still appear all over the place and need rationalising, with only the most notable in the lead and infobox. Dates for the works that don't have them would be useful. I've requested a source, but still not done any sources check. Espresso Addict (talk) 07:54, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

December 22

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Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Health and environment

International relations

Politics and elections

Science and technology


(Posted) RD: Karima Baloch

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Article: Karima Baloch (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Pakistani human rights activist found dead in Canada. Sherenk1 (talk) 14:21, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Weak support. It's sort of unclear to me what her activism is about—and since that's what she was notable for, it seems not that helpful to post an RD about her without identifying the nature of her work? Was she only/primarily an advocate for the independence of Balochistan? Or is there something else I'm missing? If that's clarified, I would move to a full-throated support. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 17:31, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Looks much improved, though I am still not seeing a source for the birth year. We have a storm and my internet is going in and out so I haven't succeeded in checking the new sources; I have marked it as needing attention. Espresso Addict (talk) 21:58, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Espresso Addict: According to the BBC 100 Women and this source from 2016, she is 31, which means that her birth year is 2016-31=1985. I added it but it was removed by @DiplomatTesterMan:. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 01:31, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The problem with the birth date is that, as I recall, Guardian and other sources give her age at death as 37, which conflicts. I don't think this should hold the article up, though -- I'm more concerned about the, to my mind, unencyclopedic speculation over her cause of death. Espresso Addict (talk) 01:48, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Espresso Addict, I have reduced the speculation and tried to increase the encyclopedic tone of the section in consideration. (More copyediting can be done if needed.) I have no issues with her birth date; if there is any confusion it can be left vacant. DTM (talk) 02:53, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Jack Lenor Larsen

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Article: Jack Lenor Larsen (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NYTimes
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Textile design artist. I will work on the article later tonight unless someone wants to get to it before me. Ktin (talk) 02:37, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Ktin: Sorry, what do you mean by "Do you have the pen on this one?" Espresso Addict (talk) 02:27, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Espresso Addict, Sorry, are you working on these edits? Looking at the content, nothing egregious there that should prevent this article to go to homepage / RD. If you are working on the edits, we can continue to wait, but, if no one is working on edits, this is good to go to homepage / RD as it stands. Ktin (talk) 02:30, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
No, not working on this at the moment. Given the number of RD candidates, my long-term strategy here is to point out flaws and hope that others fix them. Beyond minor copy edits, I only work on articles where I have sources easily available (usually Brits), where I generally edit in the area (scientists, writers, classical musicians), or where the notability is high and posting would increase ITN's diversity (basically everything except white male Anglophones). Other admins should feel free to make their own assessments. Espresso Addict (talk) 02:42, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Espresso Addict, sounds good. I did not mean to imply that you should work on all article improvements. I am happy to lend a hand as well. However, having this one wait to go to homepage / RD pending personal life (spouse, children) etc. is harsh. Imo, this is good to go as it stands. Ktin (talk) 02:57, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
No worries. I'll take another look at this when I've been through Minoru Makihara. My primary concern on this one was the reliance on the biased LongHouse site source, and also the micro-lead, not the lack of personal life. Espresso Addict (talk) 03:11, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Stella Tennant

edit
Article: Stella Tennant (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 P-K3 (talk) 16:45, 23 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment. There's a source needed for her place of birth, which seems disputed (I've seen Scotland and Chatsworth) and feeds into her nationality (British vs Scottish). It would be nice if someone could crop the image. Otherwise, looking surprisingly ok. Espresso Addict (talk) 05:54, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
She was born in Hammersmith, London. Trillfendi (talk) 13:33, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Muhammad Mustafa Mero

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Article: Muhammad Mustafa Mero (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Orient News (in Arabic)
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: I've not done anything apart from post this article here, but it looks OK. Perhaps a little short - Dumelow (talk) 13:15, 23 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Alas, I have no grasp of Arabic. I'll keep my eyes open for an English-language report/obituary - Dumelow (talk) 07:57, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
There wasn't anything coming up in Google news when I checked earlier. Espresso Addict (talk) 07:59, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

December 21

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Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

  • The Kīlauea volcano on Hawaii erupts, prompting the Hawaii County Civil Defense Agency to urge residents to stay indoors. The eruption followed a series of small earthquakes. A previous eruption in May 2018 destroyed hundreds of homes. (CNN)

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology

  • Great conjunction
    • The planets Jupiter and Saturn appear at their closest in the sky since 1623, in an event known as a great conjunction. The closest approach will occur at 18:22 UTC, when the two planets will be one-tenth of a degree apart; they will appear to be a binary object to the naked eye. (Euronews)

(Posted) RD: Minoru Makihara

edit
Article: Minoru Makihara (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NYTimes
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Japanese business executive; former CEO of Mitsubishi credited with the group's turnaround in the 1990s. Death was announced on this date i.e. December 21, 2020. Article updates done. Ready for a pair of eyes before going to homepage / RD. Ktin (talk) 23:58, 25 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment. On a quick glance, looking reasonably ok, but there's a lot of opinion sourced to an alumni site (current Ref. 4) that could do with higher-quality sourcing; also perhaps some rephrasing as the two are a little too similar in wording. I'd remove the Kennedy/Updike name checks, as they appear irrelevant. Was his wife the granddaughter or great-granddaughter of Iwasaki Yatarō, as Ref. 4 states? Espresso Addict (talk) 04:13, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    @Espresso Addict:, Thanks for the catch. Updated to great-granddaughter. Again, will need you to be specific regarding any concerns with #4's sourcing. As it stands the article is good to go to homepage / RD in its current state. I am ambivalent to removing the Kennedy / Updike references. But, otherwise -- no reason to hold this article back. Ktin (talk) 04:24, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    I don't generally edit in the area of business, but imo alumnus articles are usually essentially puff pieces. If the university is decent, one can usually rely on them for basic facts, but anything laudatory isn't 100% reliable. Espresso Addict (talk) 04:27, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Espresso Addict, I am not disputing that. None of the WP:PUFF text has been brought into the article. Please point a sentence that is WP:PUFF and has been brought in from ref: 4 and I will be the first one to delete it, alternately, go ahead and delete it yourself. This very generic statement holding up articles from progressing does no good to anyone, nor to the backlog that is piling up. Ktin (talk) 04:35, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Looks good to me — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 14:03, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. Thanks Martin. Folks, can I request one more pair of eyes on this one. I believe this is good to go to homepage / RD as it stands. Ktin (talk) 18:04, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Further note. This article has been in mainspace for less than 24 hours over a public holiday, and all content has been provided by a single editor (Ktin). For clarity, I am in no way saying this precludes posting but it would, in my opinion, be wise to wait for potential input by others interested in this area. Espresso Addict (talk) 00:03, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Espresso Addict:, I frankly am not following the insinuation here. But, I will WP:AGF. There is no reason to cast aspersions on the article just because I am the lone / major contributor to the article nor the fact that it is relatively new. If there are genuine article improvement notes that you have to provide, and please be specific with those, I am 100% available to have those incorporated. This lack of specificity is frankly very difficult to work with. Ktin (talk) 00:19, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: John Fitzpatrick

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Article: John Fitzpatrick (footballer, born 1946) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Scotsman
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Retired Scottish footballer (Manchester United), short enough article but reasonably well referenced JW 1961 Talk 09:56, 22 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Kevin Greene

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Article: Kevin Greene (American football) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [11]
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 – Muboshgu (talk) 22:27, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Great conjunction

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: great conjunction (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The closest visible great conjunction since the year 1226 occurs on December 21st (UTC). (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The closest visible great conjunction since the year 1226 occurs on December 21st.
Alternative blurb II: ​ The closest great conjunction since the year 1623 occurs on December 21st.
Alternative blurb III: ​ The closest great conjunction, between Jupiter and Saturn, since the year 1623 occurs on December 21st.
News source(s): Guardian Forbes (soft paywall) NPR Rice University (very interesting if you like to geek out with orbital math
Credits:
Article updated
Nominator's comments: (nominated early to ensure sufficient time if this barely wins) "great conjunction" is the technical astronomy term and astrologic mumbo for this rarest category of planetary alignment known before the discovery of Uranus. They occur on a c. 19.86 year cycle and this one's only 0.2 Moon diameters apart for most of the world. All longitudes and most latitudes can see, only early night or dusk. The 1563 event caused many astronomers to believe Copernicus' Sun-centered predictions long before Galileo was imprisoned for this and the next ones this close are 2080 and 2417 AD. There is a c. 4 century closeness cycle thus after the morning sky one in 2080 it's all downhill from there. This is also the start of an air trigon mutation in astrology meaning the triangle is in air signs for awhile, two trigons ago the fire one starting in 1603 made people freak out about apocalypse causing a papal bull banning divination and mentions by Shakespeare, Bacon, Dante, Tycho and Kepler. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 05:05, 17 December 2020 (UTC) [reply]
Extended content
 
Still about 2.5 times minimum separation here on Dec 19 (Saturn isn't this dim in a telescope to the eye though)
 
This is the article's other photo, telephoto I think of it at 2.5 times how close it will be on Monday. From central Europe and after visible twilight which increases horizon air blurring compared to closer to 10°N and earlier.
 
And here's what The Planetary Society has called the best case scenario view through a telescope. Not everyone will see this much detail but high altitude places around 10 degrees North in Africa is the lucky location (weather-permitting). You can't get much less systemic bias than that. They released under Creative Commons 3 license. These should give a better idea of how impressive or not it'll be when magnified than peoples' opinions.
  • Support in principle There's a lot of hype around the event in every astronomical community that I'm familiar with. While I'm not sure how famous the event is to the average Joe,it's nevertheless being reported in major news outlets and given the rarity of the event, I think it deserves a blurb. However, the target article has a lot of problems so oppose until that's fixed. Scaramouche33 (talk) 05:47, 17 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    The article is in much better shape now Scaramouche33 (talk) 14:56, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per Scaramouche33. But don't use the term win; we're not winning anything there. Several of my blurbs get rejected in the past and I don't consider it as a loss, just stale. Regards, Jeromi Mikhael (marhata) 07:32, 17 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose tagged. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 11:38, 17 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Still oppose, much better suited to the trivia section of the main page. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 21:04, 20 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, despite being an astronomer myself. Although the event is underway, closest approach doesn't happen until 21 Dec. It's also pretty unimpressive to see and has zero scientific interest or value. Some amateur astronomy organisations are promoting it, but there's little-to-no interest among professionals. For the general public it's less impressive to look at than the Geminid meteor shower that's also happening right now. Whilst I like to see astronomy stories in ITN, I think general readers would see that blurb, think it was something dramatic like an eclipse, then be hugely disappointed to realise what's actually visible. We certainly shouldn't be promoting the pseudoscience of astrology on the Main Page. Modest Genius talk 11:56, 17 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    It's great to have an actual astronomer here, it really helps us differentiate the important stuff from the trivia Scaramouche33 (talk) 12:05, 17 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    To be honest I don't know at what point 2 points of light are close and similar enough to be visually impressive. If this was Venus (brightness about minus 4) and Jupiter (about minus 2) several arcminutes apart it would definitely be visually impressive, this is 6 arcminutes apart and only about magnitude 0 and minus 2. I won't guess if they will be or won't be close enough to impress the general public in a good telescope. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 14:19, 17 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Support. The claims made above are incorrect. The event will be impressive to see; both planets will be visible in the same field of view in a telescope (only the second time this has happened since the invention of the telescope). Another close conjunction won't happen again until 2080 so this is a very rare event, and it is important as it has been given significant prominence in many astronomical almanacs/year books/magazines. The event is also of some scientific value: I know of some astronomers who are are using this event to study Jupiter's magnetosphere as Saturn passes through it as seen from Earth. However, I do agree that the article should be improved (help would be appreciated), the mentions of astrology removed (as unimportant), and the blurb reworded a bit something like "The planets Jupiter and Saturn appeared at their closest together in the sky for almost 400 years on 21 December, in an event known as a great conjunction (explaining what it is rather than just mentioning it).

QuantumPulsar2002 (talk) 17:32 (edited 23:03), 17 December 2020 (UTC)

  • Huh you're right, I hadn't thought of that. Jupiter is I believe the only planet in the solar system who's magnetic field is long enough to "touch" another planet. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 17:55, 17 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support I saw this covered on The Sky at Night yesterday and it looked quite special. I looked at the planets earlier in the year when out late observing the comet, which we blurbed. The planets were a lot brighter than the comet then and this conjunction will make them even more prominent. Unlike Brexit and other human affairs, this is quite a sure thing and it is good to give people advance notice so they have a chance to see it themselves.
Note also that we have had Nana Akufo-Addo as the picture blurb for an entire week now and it's embarassing to have such a low-impact story as our lead for so long. Like the comet, the conjunction will have plenty of good pictures for us to highlight and so we should make the most of them.
Andrew🐉(talk) 13:10, 17 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
That's U.S. – otherwise it reads as 'us' — Cf., "We have met the enemy and he is us." – Sca (talk) 16:01, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support. This is a one in a generation event that’s also perfectly suited to Wikipedia’s strengths: unusual anomalies. The news cycle has been pretty slow also, and overall this just seems like a pretty strong event for ITN. The Image Editor (talk) 02:25, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"Unprecedented" recently became the English world's Word of the Year, per Dictionary.com, narrowly defeating "apocalyptic". First time ever. We could improve and blurb that article. InedibleHulk (talk) 02:49, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
That's funny. – John M Wolfson (talkcontribs) 03:41, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Once again, the news cycle has been pretty slow is not an argument to post. – John M Wolfson (talkcontribs) 03:41, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
And reasonable people can disagree with that essay. Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 06:05, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Just delete that section. It's rubbish anyway. HiLo48 (talk) 05:07, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Well,today's the day! Great work on the article, it's much better referenced than it was a few days ago and the new images are a nice edition as well. I agree with HiLo48 that it's best to remove the astrology section if we can't find any sources for it Scaramouche33 (talk) 05:18, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment With somehow mixed support here (the arguments agains due to poor article shape have been resolved), an alternative would be to run it on On this day box. Since ... you know ... it's on this day :) --Tone 08:14, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    That could be an interesting compromise Scaramouche33 (talk) 08:46, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support on notability. If there doesn't end up being a consensus to post to ITN, we certainly should post this somewhere else. We already post similar phenomenon (e.g. solar eclipses) but those occur quite frequently compared to this. To say that this is a once in a lifetime event is quite an understatement; this is a once in a millennium event. I can't think of anything else that we can say that about.  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 09:28, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support The last nom might have been premature but the general significance and interest in this event is now widely being reported for this to be on ITN. Gotitbro (talk) 12:26, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose This feels like Joey's identical hand scheme from Friends - there's no THERE there. It is a function of planetary motion that sometimes they'll be closer to each other than other times. There is nothing remotely noteworthy about the occasions on which it happens. GreatCaesarsGhost 13:30, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    That is what an eclipse is, when they're closer than an average of a sixtieth of a Moon width somewhere on Earth and the Moon height is slightly under the average miles you get total solar eclipses. Nothing more special than that, the separations in miles are still completely unremarkable but they're still posted cause they look cool. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 13:43, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    How are eclipses unremarkable? People can't STOP remarking on them. You know how many remarks I heard about the last total solar eclipse? I want to say it was 1000x more than remarked on the great conjunction, but 1000x zero is still zero. Eclipses "looking cool" is still something, and something is more than nothing. GreatCaesarsGhost 15:29, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    The separation in miles is unremarkable and there's no closeness actually there (I haven't seen the episode). And you don't think the pic looks cool if you click on it? Nothing beats a total solar eclipse, if that's the minimum eye candyness standard then no one should ever post other astronomical events again but they have i.e. the longest annular eclipse of the millennium and a featureless circle of 0.03 Sun widths crossing the Sun (which I thought was cool too but I'm biased) Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 15:41, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not any more excited today than usual. I don't feel any effects at all from this great event, but then at the moment it's cloudy where I live. Nevertheless, this conjunction seems suboptimally impactful. – Sca (talk) 14:05, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
But modern astrologers feel something. If a drug ever runs out we should just scam them with fake drugs and they won't feel the difference. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 14:56, 21 December 2020 (UTC) [reply]
"Modern astrologer" – an oxymoron? – Sca (talk) 15:13, 21 December 2020 (UTC) [reply]
"person of unusual confirmation bias", "person who swallowed the in-universe stuff", "astrologer who happens to still be alive", "differently worldviewed". The differently worldviewed take offense at your dismissal of things like geocentrism, ghosts, flat earthism, terrorism and global cooling" and would prefer that you call them "heterodox realitists" Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 15:31, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Not exciting as baseball's older cousin but so what... Howard the Duck (talk) 14:08, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
There have been people so unexcited about the only local total solar eclipse in >150 years future and past that they didn't bother to step into the darkness for a moment to see. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 14:16, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Of course. Astrology shouldn't be mentioned. Cape Verde or Mauritania and "parts of Oceania" were apparently the best places to go if one wanted to try to see it with the Great Red Spot on closest day. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 16:02, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment So far I've counted 16 supports and 10 opposes, How much do we need for a concesus? Scaramouche33 (talk) 17:03, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    I'd have thought that was enough but I'm no longer in a position to judge, having !voted myself. Despite the claims above that it's an "uninteresting" event for professional astronomers, I find that opposition generally weak. It is certainly in the news, across the world, it's a very rare event and although the event has no impact on the bodies themselves, neither do the frequently occurring eclipses yet we post them without hesitation.  — Amakuru (talk) 17:27, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Professionals only get paid to extend the boundary of current knowledge, and don't look through telescopes with eyes anymore and use false color infrared/radio etc a lot, and things eyes can't see like extreme physics from outside the solar system and cosmology and exoplanets are big right now so it's not surprising that some professionals don't have a looking with their eyes hobby anymore. Stuff eyes can see has been studied to death already. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 18:07, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Interesting and unusual, as others have said. My reservation was the astrology nonsense, but now that section has been removed from the article I'll support.-- P-K3 (talk) 17:35, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Jeeeeeeez admins have posted dead American dudes that have more opposition than this one. Where's a rogue admin when you need one? Or does someone have to tagged this as ready and we'd wait for another day? Howard the Duck (talk) 17:47, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Notable, all over the news, and we've got a decent article as well. Davey2116 (talk) 17:53, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted. I think there's a rough consensus to post this; some proportion (exact proportion impossible to guess) of opposes were to quality which seems to no longer be an issue, and to astrology nonsense that has now been removed. Also, oldest hook is over 2 weeks old, ITN needed some fresh air. No one expressed an opinion about which blurb to use, so I went with Alt 2, because Alt 3 was too long (someone else changed to Alt 3, which seems to me to be about 2% worse, so meh), and I don't think "easily visible" is quantifiable enough. Not sure if this is actually photogenic or not; if anyone finds a free image that isn't two dots of light, the image could stand to be updated too. --Floquenbeam (talk) 18:08, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting support - been in the news cycle for a week or two, easily visible to the naked eye (although it was more impressive IMO watching them get closer and closer over the past 6 months). I'm not sure why the scientific value is relevant seeing as we post eclipses that hold next to zero scientific value today. As for image, NASA imagery is public domain is it not? Their webpage on the conjunction. - Floydian τ ¢ 18:58, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Regarding the image above; it is basically illegible at all resolutions and on all screens unless you click on it to expand; we tend to not include such images in the ITN box, for similar reasons why maps are usually not included on main page posts. It looks like a black rectangle with some random smudges on it. If there's an image of the conjunction at better resolution that lets us see the planets and identify them at scale, that would be great. But dim smudges on a black rectangle isn't really helping our readers. --Jayron32 19:49, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Is it too small to crop? Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 20:14, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    No joke - can we run the Kepler sketch? GreatCaesarsGhost 00:30, 22 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Sure why not, it's just drawing lines between consecutive conjunctions with the "ruler" being the plane of Earth's orbit and even people who didn't believe in astrology measured in signs degrees minutes seconds back then, like a 12 30 60 60 version of British money. I might be remembering some other early to mid 1600s quote but I think it was Kepler who told the non-believing members of his profession to keep their mouth shut cause astrology is the teat of astronomy or something like that (meaning astrology paid the bills so they could afford to research and eat and making horoscopes for hire was something they were almost uniquely qualified for, no other job would need their skills). Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 01:10, 22 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting declaration Woe is us! InedibleHulk (talk) 20:00, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting support Been all over the news for the past week, is unique and interesting, and the article is in good shape. Mlb96 (talk) 21:47, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
 


Wake me when the 'great' part of the conjunction is over. I don't want to get over-excited.
Sca (talk) 22:35, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Different people like different things, it's prominent in the news and not only just in tabloids like the NY Post and Daily News so why not? Also it removed another space item over half month old.Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 22:45, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Stop dealing with Sca. This same guy dismissed the Times as a reference for newsworthiness here. Well, it is not the NY Post and Daily News (or perhaps the Sun) so... perhaps the 36k pageviews yesterday and 192k for December all came from boring people? I dunno. That's certainly a lot more than 50% of those found in WP:ITNR. Howard the Duck (talk) 23:07, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Could be 40 obsessive astronomers and 40 compulsive astrologers checking for updates 2400 times each. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:33, 22 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

December 20

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Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sports


RD: Ezra Vogel

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Article: Ezra Vogel (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NYT
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Professor of East Asian studies at Harvard. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 01:24, 23 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Switching to oppose because attempts at improving this article are being reverted. Espresso Addict (talk) 22:24, 25 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Kīlauea

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Article: Kīlauea (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A new volcanic eruption begins at Kīlauea on the island of Hawaiʻi. (Post)
News source(s): [17]
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: New eruption at a major volcano. It has been dormant for 2 years and is ranked by the United States Geological Survey as the volcano in the United States most likely to threaten lives and infrastructure. Found5dollar (talk) 16:24, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Strictly speaking, news is that which is important to a significant number of people. Both those terms are matters of judgment. Each report must be evaluated by knowledgeable people. (But there's some room for human-interest material.) – Sca (talk) 15:11, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Fanny Waterman

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Article: Fanny Waterman (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Leeds Piano Competition
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Centenarian, co-founded and directed the Leeds Piano Competition that gave pianists a start into an international career, held the post of director until age 95. There's more detail in the sources if needed. Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:01, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Nepal parliament dissolved

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Article: President of Nepal (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: President of Nepal (pictured) dissolves the parliament amid feud in the ruling party. (Post)
Alternative blurb: Nepal's president (pictured) dissolves the parliament; elections set for next spring.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Seven cabinet ministers resign after President of Nepal (pictured) dissolves the parliament.
News source(s): Washington Post
Credits:

Article needs updating
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

 (User Talk:Chomolungma8848) 17:15, 20 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Doug Anthony

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Article: Doug Anthony (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-20/former-deputy-prime-minister-doug-anthony-dies/12590524
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Australia's longest-serving deputy prime minister HiLo48 (talk) 03:00, 20 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Weak oppose. While the subject is MORE than notable to qualify for ITN, along with a pretty slow week in terms of news, the article in question is somewhat under-referenced and doesn’t quite meet the standards of ITN. If the article is improved, I’ll support putting it on ITN. The Image Editor (talk) 03:13, 20 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

December 19

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Disasters and accidents

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Sports


RD: Leo Panitch

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Article: Leo Panitch (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Toronto Star
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Canadian political science professor, author, and socialist activist dies at age 75. Covid. The article is well-sourced (besides several page needed tags) though not many RS have covered his death so far. Davey2116 (talk) 18:43, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Maria Piątkowska

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Article: Maria Piątkowska (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [18] (many other Polish language sources too)
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Short article, but well sourced with limited information available. Former Olympian Joseph2302 (talk) 17:50, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Mekere Morauta

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Article: Mekere Morauta (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Papua New Guinea Today
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Former PM of Papua New Guinea. Alsoriano97 (talk) 12:41, 20 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support Quite alot of materials here. Albertaont (talk) 23:20, 20 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Not adequately sourced; needs full lead; encyclopedic tone needs work in places; heading structure needs attention, eg there's a miscellaneous bit at the end that needs sorting out. The references use an odd "available at" formulation for the url, which makes them rather hard to read; I don't know whether this would fall under the allowed styles for references? Espresso Addict (talk) 02:35, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    "Not adequately sourced"?? It's got 83 references. If you're not happy with any of them, or if any particular sentences need verification, then please feel free to tag the article. But the sourcing seems more than adequate to me. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 09:18, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Looks okay to me. Refs and cats could use some fixing though. Gotitbro (talk) 12:34, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support While the citing style is odd, there are plenty in there (refill can't fix to citeweb style), I fixed the categories per Gotitbro's request JW 1961 Talk 18:31, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Espresso Addict. Whether an article is adequately referenced is not determined by counting the number of cites. It's by assessing whether all major assertions are covered. In this case I don't see that they are. And the lead definitely needs expanding, it's only one line at the moment, for what is a fairly lengthy article. It also contains unencyclopedic formulations apparently in Wikipedia's voice (i.e. not part of a quote), such as "There should be as little opportunity as possible for sticky fingers in the government pie". Quite a bit of work needed here unfortunately. CHeers  — Amakuru (talk) 12:42, 22 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose tagged, citations needed, walls and walls of text, grim. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 11:00, 23 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

2020 United States federal government data breach

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Article: 2020 United States federal government data breach (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item nomination (Post)
News source(s): See article
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Bit late to post this as blurb now, how about ongoing? Banedon (talk) 09:33, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Tentative support Having now read WP:ITNCRIT, it's clear the article meets the second criterion. (Check the article's reflist if you think press coverage has been narrow or shallow, and I'm sure you'll see it has not been; the topic is very much "in the news" and seems likely to be significant for a while, both politically and technologically.) As the article creator, though, I feel I should abstain on whether the quality of the article is sufficient, so I'll just comment that I hope other editors feel I have done a good job with it. (And if not, then I'll try to engage on the article's talk page to address specific criticisms.) Comment As the article creator, I think I should abstain from voting on this. I'll let other people decide. Thanks for pinging me, though, Thanks, Zazpot (talk) 09:39, 19 December 2020 (UTC); edited Zazpot (talk) 18:42, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I think this would have been better suited as a blurb if it was nominated a few days ago. But I'm not sure if it will work for ongoing. I mean, how long would we keep it,till the investigations are concluded? Scaramouche33 (talk) 12:23, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Not really "in the news" or "ongoing" (the breach has already happened). If the article was about an investigation into this which was receiving significant continuous media coverage that would be different. This is better suited for a blurb, but even then the exact extent is not known to gauge its aptness for that. Gotitbro (talk) 12:44, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose not in the news, not ongoing-worthy, not remarkable in any sense, not even really interesting. So that's a no. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 13:14, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb The article is really good, which is the most important thing. This would be hard to find normally because of the title, so we could do some good by featuring it. I'm confused by the "not in the news" comments; I can't get away from this story. I don't think that we should go straight to ongoing just because it was expanded over a few days. GreatCaesarsGhost 13:18, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Not in my news, anywhere. Much more interesting and novel things in the news than this. Also, not a US ticker. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 13:30, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose This may be in the news but definitely not on the front page and it doesn't portend anything with a long-lasting impact. And if the article looks good, then it could get nominated for an FP and appear on the main page as such but I'm not going to buy that argument to make concessions on this nomination.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 14:10, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – There was some coverage, but the 'breach' doesn't seem highly impactful in a world dominated by more threatening issues. – Sca (talk) 14:13, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose It's definitely in the news, but its a slow-motion train wreck that's being attributed to yet more antics from the Trump administration that did actions to allow it to happen, and hence getting a bit of over-coverage here in the US. --Masem (t) 14:52, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, either a blurb or ongoing. "Not in the news"? Please, give me a break! As of today, it is front page news at BBC[19], France24[20], DeutcheWelle[21], LeMonde[22], just for starters. Guardin reports[23] that, with Trump still being silent, Biden has indicated there will be significant retaliation once he takes office. This story definitely has legs and it will have major impact. Nsk92 (talk) 15:02, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Let's wait for the impact, then judge whether it's major. – Sca (talk) 15:29, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
No, it's America so it's guaranteed to have a "bigly impact". After all, it's only the US that gets hacked by the Russians, isn't it? The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 15:33, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The horrible but impactful Americans raise their ugly heads once again. Help!Sca (talk) 15:43, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Terrible business. I suggest we all climb into boats and have a rowing race down the Thames, to settle this once and for all.  — Amakuru (talk) 16:15, 19 December 2020 (UTC) [reply]
Or a round of snooooker. – Sca (talk) 16:18, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
...he said tactfully but impactfully. – Sca (talk) 16:16, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
What he means is, his impact on the nom. was modest. – Sca (talk) 16:30, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Fun Fact An incident this major calls for "Federal Responders" to "safeguard" the details of it, to "the extent permitted" by law, per section III(c) of Presidential Policy Directive 41. What happened will be speculative, hard to find and/or partially factual. That much is near certain. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:53, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose ongoing, Support blurb when information regarding the investigation is revealed, i think the blurb ks better suit for this. 36.65.40.44 (talk) 23:20, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Espionage and signal intelligence has been an ongoing activity of great powers for over 100 years. Nowadays "the NSA intercepts and stores the communications of over a billion people worldwide" and that probably includes everything that we're typing here too. Andrew🐉(talk) 00:20, 20 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Support Blurb I don't remember seeing such sustained coverage of what should otherwise be usual espionage. Trump's silence is also more interesting. Maybe re-nom as blurb? 104.243.98.96 (talk) 08:22, 20 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose both on impact and quality. Data breaches are frequent, caused moreso by organizational buffoonery and buck-passing subcontracting than by genuine technological innovation. Article is far too granular to convey anything to a naïve reader; it would be more suited to a subject publication. The tone is breathless and veers into proseline. It whiffs of the Russia hacking! narrative of years past which turned out to be rank untruth.130.233.213.199 (talk) 07:21, 22 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support – This is the biggest, and possibly the most damaging cyberattack the U.S. has ever experienced, in terms of national security. That in itself is already more than notable enough for an ITN mention. Thousands of companies and U.S. Federal Government branches were compromised, for months, mind you. And the article appears to have decent quality as well. LightandDark2000 🌀 (talk) 00:56, 23 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

December 18

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Science and technology


(Posted) RD: Jerry Relph

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Article: Jerry Relph (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Star Tribune
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Not super long, but seems okay for a one-term state senator. No ref problems I can see. Nohomersryan (talk) 04:40, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment. Needs a source for the birth date (only year in source given) and middle initial. There is very little detail between 1974 (legal graduation) and 2016 (election), though his notability derives solely from his short political career. Otherwise seems an acceptable start-class article. ETA: I note, however, there's been some conflict over the text on his votes in office; a part of this section has now been removed but looking at the history all of it appears to be disputed. Espresso Addict (talk) 05:25, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • I'm not seeing too much dispute there outside of the insulin claim, which shouldn't be that hard to verify, but probably not worth it if it's contentious. What's left in the article now appears to be fairly cut and dry. There's no wiki article on the publication for the DOB source I just added, but the article's from a former Star Tribune/New Yorker political writer, so it looks like RS to me Nohomersryan (talk) 06:24, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support bare bones, but given his non-notable career until 2016, I suppose it's understandable. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 15:35, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Good enough. Every paragraph is cited and it isn't a stub. Mlb96 (talk) 19:56, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  •   Posted — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 21:00, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Pierre Buyoya

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Article: Pierre Buyoya (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Bloomberg
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Former dictator of Burundi dies from COVID-19. Alsoriano97 (talk) 00:21, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for working on this, Brigade Piron. I can't access all of the critical Le Monde ref 2, but I am somewhat doubtful that it covers everything that is attributed to it, in particular the material after its publication in April 2001; perhaps someone with access can double-check? There are additionally still a few bits of information without any citation. There's also nothing in the body about his personal life as an adult (marriage, children). Espresso Addict (talk) 12:36, 23 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Mlb96, Espresso Addict, Gotitbro, could you review your votes in light of the subsequent changes? —Brigade Piron (talk) 11:19, 23 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Brigade Piron: Still seeing a single cn tag there. please fix it. Gotitbro (talk) 11:23, 23 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Mlb96, Espresso Addict, Gotitbro: They have, I think, now been addressed. Hanif Al Husaini has also helpfully got involved. —Brigade Piron (talk) 18:38, 23 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Brigade Piron: There are still two citation needed tags. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 01:41, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I did not see them. On reflection, I do not think either is that important and certainly not for WP:BLP purposes. Both effectively testify the fact that the Burundian Civil War did not end until 2005. —Brigade Piron (talk) 12:02, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Òscar Ribas Reig

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Article: Òscar Ribas Reig (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Diari d'Andorra
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: 1st Prime Minister of Andorra who led the Principality during the Constituent process. Working to improve his article. Alsoriano97 (talk) 22:49, 18 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I'm working on it. Alsoriano97 (talk) 12:00, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Alsoriano97: It's somewhat improved, thanks, but still nowhere near main-page quality. There needs to be a coherent account of his notable career in detail, which is completely sourced to reliable sources. For example, just under "Beginnings" (which I'll edit to something better in a moment), when did he join the National Liberal Party; which exact party is referred to (wikilink); was he elected to the General Council or appointed in some fashion; if elected in what election, representing whom; what did he do as a council member; what happened between 1979 and 1981... And so on. Espresso Addict (talk) 20:53, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for your contribution, but I have to say that I'm struggling to find information as there's few specific information in the net. Alsoriano97 (talk) 21:40, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Espresso Addict and Gex4pls: I added more sources and info, but as I said, there's not much more. I will continue tomorrow if it's necessary. Alsoriano97 (talk) 23:06, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The article is significantly better now, thanks. I'm still puzzled by what happened between 1979 and 1981 -- was the General Council dissolved, or was he just not elected in 1979? Also there's nothing on the basic personal life -- marriage(s), children -- apart from unsourced material in the infobox. There's also a requested source in the awards. I have not checked the non-English sources. Espresso Addict (talk) 05:04, 20 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Espresso Addict: Unsourced awards info deleted as I can't find any official source. I also can't find what did he did between 1979 and 1981. Infobox is now referenced. Alsoriano97 (talk) 12:23, 20 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It is significantly improved, though I've noticed one one uncited sentence and a preexisting cn tag. Get those fixed and I'll change my !vote to a Support. Gex4pls (talk) 20:56, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

RD: José Vicente Rangel

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Article: José Vicente Rangel (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Reuters, El País
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Venezuelan senior ranking politician, including former Vice President, presdential candidate and journalist. Prominent figure in the left wing political history of the country. NoonIcarus (talk) 20:50, 18 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Michael Jeffery

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Article: Michael Jeffery (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/7062335/former-governor-general-gentleman-and-great-australian-michael-jeffery-dies/
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Former Governor-General of Australia HiLo48 (talk) 06:33, 18 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

December 17

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(Posted) RD: John Barnard Jenkins

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Article: John Barnard Jenkins (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.bbc.co.uk/cymrufyw/55362586
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Former leader of Welsh nationalist group Mudiad Amddiffyn Cymru. Imprisoned for a bombing campaign in Wales and surrounding areas. 15:22, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Jeremy Bulloch

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Article: Jeremy Bulloch (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Boba Fett. Needs some sourcing. – Muboshgu (talk) 22:16, 17 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: R. N. Shetty

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Article: R. N. Shetty (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NDTV
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Indian businessman. I have not read the article in detail. Surely some amount of rewrites will be required. Will get to it this evening. Posting this here in case someone wants to get started prior to me getting to it. Update: Been a long day, have not able to get to this, will have it picked tomorrow. Edits done. Rewrote most of the article to avoid reading like a corporate press release. Meets hygiene requirements for homepage / RD. Ktin (talk) 19:14, 17 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Appeal of Russia doping case penalties

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: Doping in Russia (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ On appeal of the ruling from the World Anti-Doping Agency related to Doping in Russia, the Court of Arbitration for Sport reduces the penalties against Russia, allowing Russian athletes to participate in the Olympics and other international events but only as neutral athletes for a two year period. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The Court of Arbitration for Sport reduces the ban against Russia to two years in the doping in Russia scandal and allows Russian athletes to compete as neutral athletes during the ban period.
News source(s): AP
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: We posted the original WADA ruling last December [24] where Russia was outright banned from the Olympics for four years. This appeal ruling drastically cuts that to still allow Russia to compete but as a "Neutral Athlete/Team" for a period of two years. Among other factors. Masem (t) 19:03, 17 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

RD: Saufatu Sopoanga

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Article: Saufatu Sopoanga (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): (New Zealand Government)
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Former PM of Tuvalu. Article seems good. Alsoriano97 (talk) 15:00, 17 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support Seems in good shape now. Good work Joofjoof!. Alsoriano97 (talk) 18:44, 23 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. Much better than when I last looked, but still lacks important details eg education, civil service career 1975–95, date of first election to parliament, dates for early ministries, what he did as PM (there's a lot of detail on how he was ousted, but little else). I haven't checked the sources but do they really contain his actual thoughts on all the wheeling and dealing? Better to rephrase out of Wikipedia's voice. Espresso Addict (talk) 01:56, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Hennadiy Kernes

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Article: Hennadiy Kernes (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Ukrinform, BBC Ukrainian (in Ukrainian)
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Mayor of Kharkiv. Article is quite decent. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 12:49, 17 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

All non-English sources are legit (I put most of them in the article), I can asure you. Although none of my Kharkiv friends told me that his nickname "Gepa" (see "Personal life"-section) stood for "Butt".... And they really did not like him and this nickname was widely used for him in Kharkiv. It might be better to delete this translation, although this translation is sourced the source does not say that Mr. Kernes was called "Butt-Head". — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 16:45, 20 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Hanif Al Husaini: His date of death is given as 17 December in the header and infobox but is not in the main text and I couldn't see any citation supporting a 17 December death date (only that it was announced on 17 December) - Dumelow (talk) 08:19, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Luzy Bronze

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Article: Lucy Bronze (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ English footballer, Lucy Bronze, is awarded The Best FIFA Women's Player as the top women's player of the year at the The Best FIFA Football Awards 2020. (Post)
News source(s): Sports Illustrated, Sky Sports, Eurosport
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Top global award for footballers Hmlarson (talk) 17:40, 18 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose. a) There are already seven football events per year on WP:ITNR; I don't think the sport needs even more coverage. b) I don't remember us ever posting blurbs about individual awards in other team sports. c) The article The Best FIFA Women's Player is little more than a stub, indicating how little interest there is in this award. d) It's strange not to include the men's award that was announced at the same time. e) The Ballon d'Or is a more prestigious award. Modest Genius talk 18:02, 18 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
They are listed in WP:ITNR#Football_(association). Espresso Addict (talk) 00:10, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I was surprised to find that the Ballon d'Or doesn't appear to be ITN/R, but it wasn't awarded this year, so that seems to be moot. If we post this, we definitely should have both men's and women's together. Espresso Addict (talk) 00:10, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

December 16

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(Closed) Kan-etsu Expressway

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: Kan-etsu Expressway (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Around 1,000 drivers are stranded on the Kan-etsu Expressway after heavy snowfall impacts northern Japan. (Post)
News source(s): NBC News The Japan Times
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: A major disruption to the country's national expressway network that is not able to be remedied in a routine manner. Military is involved. The image included is of the expressway from two years ago.  ❯❯❯ Mccunicano☕️ 06:45, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

RD: Anthony Casso

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Article: Anthony Casso (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NY Daily News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: High-profile mobster. Death from COVID. Poydoo can talk and edit 22:11, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Flavio Cotti

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Article: Flavio Cotti (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Schweizer Radio und Fernsehen
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Former President of the Swiss Confederation. Dies from COVID-19. The article is...quite insufficient Alsoriano97 (talk) 21:19, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Weak oppose Seems like a stub but fully cited. Needs expansion. Regards, Jeromi Mikhael (marhata) 23:52, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Jack Steinberger

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Article: Jack Steinberger (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NYTimes
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Physics Nobel prize winner. Death announced today 12/16 in English Media, and yesterday, 12/15 in German media. Article requires some amount of work in referencing. Added [citation needed] tags in case someone wants to give it a go in the next couple of hours. Completed the referencing. If someone finds any other edits that are required, let me know. I will be up for the next three hours. Ktin (talk) 20:10, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Not a physicist, but my understanding is that one can state "scientist researched x topic" with a primary source, but one can't state "scientist discovered x, proved y, or demonstrated z", or the like, without a secondary source. Espresso Addict (talk) 06:56, 17 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It's also a bit lacking in dates; I tried to construct a list of where he was when but there isn't precise enough info in most cases. In particular, the retirement date from CERN is missing. Espresso Addict (talk) 07:06, 17 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Espresso Addict, Added the retirement date from CERN. Added the other sources that you'd wanted. Anything else that I can help? Ktin (talk) 07:32, 17 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Espresso Addict, don't get me wrong, but, you've got to be more specific than this. The statement It's also a bit lacking in dates doesn't give me anything to work with, particularly when the article is littered with dates. Ktin (talk) 07:45, 17 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Awesome Again

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Article: Awesome Again (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Press Box
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Canadian Hall of Fame Racehorse, article in surprisingly better condition than a lot of human BLPs JW 1961 Talk 18:33, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  PostedJohn M Wolfson (talkcontribs) 00:43, 17 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Chang'e 5

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Article: Chang'e 5 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Chang'e 5 successfully completes its lunar sample-return mission. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The Chang'e 5 sample-return mission returns samples of the Moon to Earth
News source(s): AP, Space News
Credits:

Article needs updating
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Please note this has not happened yet but the return vessel is in the final approach stages to land in Inner Mongolia real soon now (next few hours of writing this). As confirmed by the Space News link, the return capsule has been successfully recovered. Since I've been one heavily cautioning about posting this until this point, I figure I will be one to get this going since this is the point I've said we should make ITN. Masem (t) 18:18, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Replaced image with one which shows the lunar lander, lunar ascender, and return to earth modules.
  • Support. I have healthy scepticism of anything reported in Chinese state media, and the BBC and Guardian both caveat the news with 'Xinhua said' or similar, but there's no particular reason to doubt that the capsule has arrived in some form. We should probably avoid explicitly saying it was a success until there's independent confirmation. This is the right point to post this story and the article seems in good enough shape. I've added an altblurb. Modest Genius talk 20:03, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • PS. There seems to be some back-and-forth reverting of the article regarding whether the capsule recovery has a reliable source. Maybe wait a few hours for that to settle down before posting. Modest Genius talk 20:05, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Good news organizations, if they can't have eyes on the actual event, nearly always use "According to (source), this happened..." and this is well beyond anything China related. I know we need to be cautious around China + state-sponsored media, but let's not go overboard here. --Masem (t) 00:31, 17 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support As promised. Gex4pls (talk) 20:19, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Quality and referencing is good.  Nixinova T  C   00:16, 17 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. In the UK, the BBC now seems to be stating in its own voice, while The Guardian is still quoting Xinhua. It would be nice to get two independent non-Chinese sources stating success directly. An alternative would be to post the main blurb, deleting the word "successfully". Espresso Addict (talk) 00:27, 17 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • There are times where we should be cautious of the China-state sponsored media for what they report, but their space program is not one of those things they seem to "make up" compared to other factors related to governance. The fact that the Guardian and AP take Xinhua at their word should be sufficient for us here. --Masem (t) 00:30, 17 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • NYT is even showing videos now, can also find the pictures everywhere. Albertaont (talk) 03:27, 17 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Support. I think there's adequate confirmation and update now. Espresso Addict (talk) 06:11, 17 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Masem: Aren't you an admin? You should've been able to insert it yourself considering the consensus now. Regards, Jeromi Mikhael (marhata) 07:35, 17 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It's considered a conflict of interest for an admin to post their own nom, even with consensus.-- P-K3 (talk) 19:44, 17 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
This. The only time (I recall) I posted my own nom was a clear SNOW support for the death of Stephen Hawking. This nom wasn't a clear SNOW due to source questioning. --Masem (t) 19:51, 17 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Leticia Lee

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Article: Leticia Lee (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): HKFP, SCMP, The Standard (HK)
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Known for anti-gay, pro-police activism in Hong Kong and as an opponent of the city's pro-democracy movement. feminist (talk) 12:50, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Needs a bit of work. None of the information mentioned in the lead is cited or mentioned in the main article - Dumelow (talk) 13:03, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I'm working on it - feminist (talk) 13:08, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Can take another look now. feminist (talk) 04:53, 17 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

December 15

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(Posted) RD: Donald Fowler

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Template:ITN candidate

December 14

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(Posted) RD: Ann Reinking

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(Posted) RD: Totilas

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(Posted) RD: Roddam Narasimha

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In addition to needing the copied material on his career and awards rewritten and replaced, little of it seems to be cited to proper independent sources; usually all awards need a proper source, not just the academic bio. The material on his research that I removed as a copyvio was cut and pasted from the bio, and so was not an independent appraisal of its significance. Espresso Addict (talk) 05:07, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Template:U, please have a look now, have given this one a thorough rewrite. Happy to make any edits. I will be awake for the next hour. Ktin (talk) 05:54, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Template:Ping Sorry, my internet went down shortly after I commented, and now I'm headed offline for the day. Will take a look once I'm back, if it isn't posted before then. Espresso Addict (talk) 09:57, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Herman Asaribab

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(Posted) RD: Benjamin Abeles

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(Closed) Sudan's removal from U.S. SST

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This user gets it! 😊 Regards, Jeromi Mikhael (marhata) 16:34, 15 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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(Closed) Total solar eclipse

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pokes IP editor Who are you, IP editor? Jeromi Mikhael (marhata) 02:01, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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(Posted) RD: Gérard Houllier

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(Posted) RD: Huang Zongying

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Template:ITN candidate

December 13

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(Closed) RD: Vasubahen

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(Re-posted) Blurb/RD: Ambrose Mandvulo Dlamini

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Template:ITN candidate Support RD once article is expanded beyond stub tier, and willing to support blurb on the significance of an incumbent head of government dying, especially being the first incumbent to die of COVID-19, despite the fact that Eswatini is officially a monarchy.  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 01:49, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • He died in a South African hospital while being treated for COVID-19, so the consensus among sources is that COVID is the assumed cause of death, but it's fair to say that this is still just an assumption unless or until Eswatini officials announce it. Nearly every result for the term "eswatini" in DuckDuckGo's news tab reads something along the lines of "dies after testing positive for COVID-19", but it's also true that his cause of death still remains unspecified for the time being. If he's notable enough for a blurb regardless of the cause of death, then we can post it without mentioning the cause of death and update the blurb once we get some sort of confirmation from Eswatini. Otherwise, if the cause of death being COVID is what makes the story notable, then we can post it to RD first and then move it to a blurb if it gets announced that he died of COVID.  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 02:45, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Do any sources say he did anything except die after diagnosis? InedibleHulk (talk) 02:51, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
At the moment, no, which is why I agree with you that we shouldn't yet use a blurb that says he died of COVID.  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 02:54, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Why would you support a blurb at all? If he did nothing, what's the impact, the loss, the effect? Not seeing it a bit. InedibleHulk (talk) 03:01, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nor does Prime Minister of Eswatini have a standalone article; hard to be blurbworthy without general notability, one should think. Survivor Series (1989) is notable, and Zeus was the first from his match to die, of anything! Give him the presumptive COVID bump, if anyone. InedibleHulk (talk) 07:22, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

December 12

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RD: Gideon Gartner

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(Closed) MLS Cup 2020

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That's how I feel about UFC Flyweight Champion Deiveson Figueiredo's legit thrilling draw last night, not worth getting his record-breaking accomplishment yawned at, fighting ain't sportsmanlike here! InedibleHulk (talk) 04:40, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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(Posted) RD: Charley Pride

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(Posted) RD: U. A. Khader

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(Posted RD) Blurb/RD: Ruhollah Zam

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(Posted) RD: John le Carré

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The horrible Americans raise their ugly heads once again. Help!Sca (talk) 14:08, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

December 11

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(Posted) RD: James Flynn (academic)

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(Closed) Zodiac 340 Cipher

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(Posted) RD: Kim Ki-duk

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(Closed) RD: Tommy Lister Jr.

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Fixed. Not any longer. 7&6=thirteen () 16:01, 11 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Template:Cite web I had put it in, and one of our editors removed it. Perverse result. Not the first time. 7&6=thirteen () 15:58, 13 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I'd not consider that page a reliable source even though its likely true (the home page is "best online casinos".... --Masem (t) 16:00, 13 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The best online casinos aren't sketchy, that's their appeal. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:14, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You disqualified Dr. John and Neil Peart because they were prolific, and didn't have the hundreds of citations that would satisfy you. The views by readers were to the contrary. Happening here, too. Oh well. 7&6=thirteen () 18:28, 13 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
ITN articles, as part of being the main page are supposed to highlight some of WP's best work. Lack of sourcing is not our best work. A highly questional RS to source films is not our best work. The problem is that these are BLPs before they died and are supposed to be in far better shape per BLP policy but people don't edit them appropriate when they add information. That's not ITN's fault that editors didn't do their jobs in the years before. --Masem (t) 18:31, 13 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Your opinion. It still creates perverse results. That's my opinion. 7&6=thirteen () 18:41, 13 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
That ITN looks at article quality is not my opinion, that's the purpose of ITN. While what is "quality" is subjective for sourcing, the lack of quality sourcing for any of the filmography is clearly and objectively not appropriate. --Masem (t) 18:56, 13 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I appreciate your work, if that counts (and added the Grantland feature in 2017). But wrestling's curse is strong here, and this actor got too close. That's my conclusion, if it counts. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:03, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
As for Template:U, the idea that advertising a legal casino makes a source "highly questional" is where your opinion perverts appreciation of facts you admit are "likely true". In my opinion, you should stop distrusting casinos, they've gone mainstream. As a matter of fact, commercial media is questionable, not illegal. InedibleHulk (talk) 04:27, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I am just saying that a site that purports to describe the best online casinos and no other signs of reliability is a far cry for reliability for a BLP (of which Lister is still under). Just because the website name shares the same as Lister doesn't mean it has any association with him at all. --Masem (t) 05:06, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I will never understand how a hypothetically miscredited bit role (or even a few) is potentially harmful to a dead person's survivors. But it's just one source, among a now-ridiculous number. Relax the restrictiveness, I say. InedibleHulk (talk) 05:14, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Plenty of other Wikis out there, this is an encyclopedia, so no, do not relax exacting standards. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 08:42, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
What quality publication do you trust to safely support filmographies? InedibleHulk (talk) 09:28, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Tommy Lister, Jr. page views. The readers find it without you. More than 200 acting credits. Template:Cite news Template:Cite book7&6=thirteen () 14:11, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The alternate way to handle this is to entirely strike the individual filmography listings. I think that is Throw out the baby with the bathwater but it could be done. 7&6=thirteen () 17:57, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The reason his page is getting page views is for being a character actor in a fair number of films. That would be inappropriate to remove that section. --Masem (t) 18:02, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. But if that's what it takes to sway the naysayers... 200+ acting credits per CNN, and the list is incomplete. Sourcing every appearance is a Sisyphusian effort that I will not choose to do. Article is in my opinion otherwise well sourced. But butting my head against this wall is futile. 7&6=thirteen () 18:55, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It's not ITN's fault that editors failed to follow BLP's policy when they added his credits without sources in building up the article. --Masem (t) 19:09, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It's not about fixing the blame. It is about fixing/solving the problem. This is a well sourced article about a prolific actor. 7&6=thirteen () 20:01, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Template:U, I am pinging Template:Ping for their guidance since the carousel might move past this date anytime now. I think part of the problem is also because WP:IMDB is not allowed as a source for filmography, if that is allowed, it will solve a significant problem. I see IMDB has over 200+ entries for this subject. I also agree with Template:U that some of these are beyond this group. Good luck. Ktin (talk) 20:13, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Stale - unfortunately it's now too late for this one. The oldest RD is currently from the 12 December. There do seem to have been a glut of them today, and more possibly on the way.  — Amakuru (talk) 20:18, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yep. Self fulfilling prophecy. 7&6=thirteen () 21:54, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
110,000 views as of today. 7&6=thirteen () 15:54, 15 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
So? ApLundell (talk) 22:50, 15 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

December 10

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(Posted) RD: Hasu Yajnik

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(Posted) RD: Garry Runciman, 3rd Viscount Runciman of Doxford

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References such as the above would be sufficient - Dumelow (talk) 09:44, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Brandon Bernard

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(Closed) RD: Richard Corben

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(Posted) RD: Joseph Safra

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(Posted) RD: Barbara Windsor

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(Closed) US policy Western Sahara

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  • Support on principle, oppose on quality. As noted earlier, I thought this was the more notable outcome of the Morocco/United States/Israel agreement. However, the target article currently lacks a number of citations, which must be fixed before it can be blurbed. NorthernFalcon (talk) 05:11, 11 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose but would support if merged with Morocco's normalised relations with Israel. I don't see how recognising Morocco's claim over a territory that is also claimed by a state effectively recognised by only around 50 countries in the world is important. A vast najority of the UN member states (including all permanent member states of the Security Council) don't recognise SADR, which goes in favour of Morocco's claim over that territory. Additionally, the United States has never recognised SADR, so their support of Morocco's claim is not really big news.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 09:02, 11 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • support alt blurb First country recognizing anything is generally significant to global politics as opposed to 163rd country doing so,however,I believe it's important to mention the full extent of the agreement Scaramouche33 (talk) 12:42, 11 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I honestly don't know: does the fact that this is being done by a lame duck president matter? Biden could revoke recognition in 40 days right? And normally state recognition is a domino game; that won't happen here. GreatCaesarsGhost 13:02, 11 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Would Biden do that though? I don't see why the US would have any interest in supporting the SADR. Considering the US provided arms support to Morocco during the Western Sahara war, I think the recognition is here to stay. Has Biden ever made a statement about the dispute? Scaramouche33 (talk) 14:29, 11 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose A country recognizing another country, and another country recognizing the former's disputed land as belonging to the former. Doesn't really seem important. Gex4pls (talk) 13:07, 11 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Ec

  • Oppose – Per previous. Big wow. – Sca (talk) 14:16, 11 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose same as below; the article update is insufficient. In the case of both of the bolded articles, there is a single, short sentence in the lead that is the total amount of information about the subject; even more important neither article currently discusses the deal itself. If you want this posted, you should include a lot more prose in the target article, so that we have something worthwhile for people to read. --Jayron32 14:14, 11 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. I suspect that Biden will most likely ignore this recognition and hope people forget about it(doubtful he actually reverses this). 331dot (talk) 14:17, 11 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. The "big wow" arguments aren't entirely fair, as by doing this the US is essentially sending a massive "fuck you" to the African Union (in African terms, this is roughly as inflammatory as formal US recognition of the Turkish occupation of northern Cyprus would be in terms of relationship with European institutions or that a US recognition of Pakistani claims to Kashmir would have on relations with India), but if you need a lengthy explanation before most readers can understand the significance, it's generally not suitable for a short-format ITN blurb. ‑ Iridescent 16:49, 11 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Besides, we're not a DT-ticker. – Sca (talk) 19:09, 11 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. The first international recognition of the annexation of Western Sahara is a big deal in its own right. Coupled with Morocco's recognition, I think it is easily ITN-worthy in a way which the recognition of a Gulf states is not. Morocco is a serious regional power in its own right. —Brigade Piron (talk) 22:00, 11 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose currently, 40 countries, never including the United States, recognize W.S.' independence. Implicitly this means that 150-160 countries recognize that the region is Moroccan sovereign territory, and as the US has never recognized WS the only other option is recognizing that the region is Moroccan. The United States seem to have a past stance which also sides with Morocco, too, and this announcement is just reiterating existing policy. Juxlos (talk) 22:54, 11 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Sidenote: the AP source mentions nowhere the claim that the US was the first country to recognize Moroccan sovereignty over the region (the "first" is Morocco recognizing the US back in 1777) and I'm reasonably sure putting that blurb on ITN would count as a hoax. Juxlos (talk) 22:57, 11 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose transient, soon-to-be-overturned nonsense as the orange balloon chapter edges nearer to a welcome close. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 08:45, 12 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • This is interesting as Morocco was the first country to ally with USA, very soon after it declared independence and it has been an ally of America ever since. And though it makes far, far, far less human rights violations than Palestinians Western Sahara doesn't want to recognize Israel so it's hard to imagine why anyone would expect the US might recognize them. Unfortunate if you're Sahrawi when some less deserving governments are full UN members but they've got some bad luck. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 15:26, 12 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    I imagine the shades of both the American and Moroccan troops killed during the the US invasion of Morocco in 1942 might somewhat dispute the "it has been an ally of America ever since" part. ‑ Iridescent 16:10, 12 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Maybe there's an asterisk somewhere like the US considered the Axis government they fought an illegitimate coup of the real Moroccan government? Like how the Polish government in exile was the real government and Hitler the fake one. Of course the Axis Moroccans would instead consider it the Moroccan patriots saving the country from things like the bad Moroccans with these German chaps conveniently here to bleed with us. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 17:44, 12 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    I was always under the impression that Morocco viewed both the Third Republic and Vichy France to be oppressive,but being a French protectorate didn't give them much choice during the war.I do know that when Roosevelt met Sultan Mohammed V, he said that he was confident that Morocco would have an independent future,which further fuelled the liberation movement in the country. But I think we're going off topic here Scaramouche33 (talk) 18:14, 12 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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(Closed) Moroccan recognition of Israel

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(Closed) RD: Yevgeny Shaposhnikov

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(Posted) RD: Iman Budhi Santosa

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Posted - Dumelow (talk) 19:43, 10 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Astad Deboo

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Posted, there's one IMDB reference in there which should probably be replaced but I'll not hold it up for that - Dumelow (talk) 19:43, 10 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Template:U, Replaced. Thanks. Ktin (talk) 20:10, 10 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

December 9

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(Posted) RD: Stanley Smith

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Support Looks okay now. Gotitbro (talk) 03:44, 12 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]


(Posted) RD: Raymond Hunter

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(Posted) RD: Manglesh Dabral

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(Posted) RD: Paolo Rossi

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(Posted) 2020 Ghanaian general election

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See below. HurricaneTracker495 (talk) 23:38, 9 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

        • Please read about systemic bias. We do have African readers. And it doesn't matter if we did or not. Ghana is a sovereign state and its elections are ITNR. I'm sure one or two Ghanians might find their way to this page; if I were you I'd consider retracting your statement. 331dot (talk) 23:26, 9 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]


(Posted) RD: Harold Budd

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December 8

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(Closed) RD: Alejandro Sabella

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(Closed) Mount Everest

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(Posted) RD: Gerard Stokes

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(Closed) COVID Vaccine

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  • Oppose first proposed blurb as written. I did see this where I am this morning, but the breakthrough would have been the approval of the vaccine, not the first person to receive it outside of a trial. Perhaps a more general blurb that the UK is the first to approve and administer a vaccine, but I don't think we need to use this person's name. 331dot (talk) 13:58, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment dup from a very similar nom. It seems the only difference is that someone (not part of a trial or part of the privileged class) has actually received it.130.233.213.199 (talk) 14:01, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurbs as written. Focus should be on the beginning of non-clinical trial rollout, rather than who is the first to receive a vaccine.--WaltCip-(talk) 14:03, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I don't think I have ever editing this article before, let alone significantly updated it. Did you forget to change it when copying the template? MSG17 (talk) 14:11, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – Hype. Other Brits already have been vaccinated. And would we run a blurb every time someone in some 'notable' country is the first to be vaccinated? No. – Sca (talk) 14:27, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    As I understand it this is the first one worldwide, right? I guess we've always said that only highly significant Covid blurbs would be posted outside of the ubiquitous box-at-the-top. Perhaps this one is it, because it could signify the beginning of the end of the pandemic, but I'm slightly undecided on that point.  — Amakuru (talk) 15:17, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Ec

Another consideration is that thousands were vaccinated in pre-release tests. And the recipient of the first official UK shot, Margaret Keenan, bless her 90-year-old heart, is not herself independently notable. – Sca (talk) 15:51, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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(Closed) Eluru outbreak

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December 7

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(Posted) RD: Pumza Dyantyi

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(Posted) RD: Roger Moret

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(Posted) RD: Udyavara Madhava Acharya

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(Posted) RD: Doug Scott

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(Closed) Blurb/RD: Chuck Yeager

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  • Support blurb in principle, I just found out about this and haven't looked at the article. RIP. – John M Wolfson (talkcontribs) 04:14, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Looking at the article, unfortunately I have to oppose at the moment due to uncited paragraphs and no prose update for his death. This would be a damn shame to miss, however. (And yes, there is probably some level of dispute to whether he "really was" the first to break the sound barrier, but he is the canonical first supersonic.) – John M Wolfson (talkcontribs) 04:20, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb when the article is ready. Davey2116 (talk) 04:22, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb Randy Kryn (talk) 04:26, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for now, too many uncited paragraphs and whatnot. Support Blurb once fixed up Gex4pls (talk) 04:28, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Why is this a blurb no-brainer exactly? Not to downplay his significance, but he was exceptionally old, and I'm not sure if he's still much of a household name. Considering John Glenn and John Lewis didn't meet blurb criteria, I'd like to see some rationale. As for the article, it's in better shape than I expected, though does need some work before it's main page ready. Nohomersryan (talk) 04:29, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Template:Yo All of the space firsts, from Armstrong to Shephard to Gagarin to Glenn, follow from his achievement of breaking the sound barrier. If anything, the fact that he lived for so long after his achievement makes this even more incredible and interesting; even if, for the sake of argument, no one knew who Chuck Yeager was anymore (doubtful, since I'm just shy of 24 and knew of him in high school), readers would be astounded to know that the person who broke the sound barrier was still alive for so long. Indeed, if this is a blurb the story it would bump off is the Indian strikes, which is a good target for Ongoing, so that argument against a blurb is moot here as well. – John M Wolfson (talkcontribs) 04:40, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • I'd argue that John Glenn was the third man to orbit the earth; John Lewis, while an important member of the Big Six, was secondary to Martin Luther King Jr. in the civil rights movement; but Chuck Yeager was the first man to break the sound barrier. That said, while I would agree with a Yeager blurb, I don't think Yeager is a "no-brainer." NorthernFalcon (talk) 05:12, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Very minor point, but we no longer consider Newsweek a reliable source at all. Not that others have reported (eg NYtimes) but just as a reminder for the future. --Masem (t) 04:43, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose on quality for now. When the article has been fixed, I would offer a weak support for blurb. We have had a number of blurb deaths recently, but the deaths of major world figures seem to come in bunches, and Yeager certainly meets the definition of "transformational figure in their field", as Yeager is arguably the most famous post-World War II aircraft pilot in the world, as well as the holder of a major aviation first. However, I think Yeager does suffer from having lived so long that his memory has been partially forgotten, particularly by the younger generations who perhaps are less aware of the significance of the sound barrier achievement. I would caution against quickly posting this as a blurb until we've had more weigh-in from the rest of the world. NorthernFalcon (talk) 04:58, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose on Blurb, support for RD A stretch to call him transformational, he was right person selected for the right flight. He doesn't clears the bar for blurb (which has been set very high), and this shows US bias. Albertaont (talk) 05:34, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Fair enough for the first part, but saying that breaking the sound barrier shows US bias is like saying the Apollo Program-Main Page shows US bias. – John M Wolfson (talkcontribs) 05:40, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • No, Neil Armstrong is very well known throughout the world. Chuck Yeager very much less so, even in other parts of the anglosphere. Albertaont (talk) 05:52, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        • I knew what he did, but my generally less-informed brother who remembers what Neil Armstrong is known for did not. He said he didn't care after I explained. Canadians who care remember the name, but he's not the Babe Ruth of aeronautics like Armstrong became (nor as obscure as the recently deceased Neil Armstrong). He's like Pat Patterson or Bruce Prichard to people who only remember Vincent Kennedy McMahon, dammit. Not biased to credit an American, that barrier was a problem for pilots and missiles across the planet. Early intercontinental champion, you could say. InedibleHulk (talk) 09:03, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb Transformative figure, while I acknowledge there is US bias when nominated RD blurbs, I can see here that he is notable enough to merit a blurb and it so happens to be he's American. I'll fix up the article. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 05:50, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb His jet was fast, he just survived. InedibleHulk (talk) 07:04, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
That's not to say piloting supersonic aircraft is easy, but many pilots since have, largely thanks to brilliant innovative engineers. InedibleHulk (talk) 07:11, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Reliable sources do not typically give engineers the glory, but those who take the risk and operate a new technology. Wikipedia follows the sources. 331dot (talk) 10:25, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Not true. Unless there's something spectacular about the pilot's efforts, they tend to herald the feat, rather than the individual. This was how the Aberdeen Press and Journal recorded it when the news broke:
Template:Quote
Which seems to focus primarily on the achievement, with the name of the pilot as a mention. In any case, while Wikipedia does follow the sources, it's up to us on this page to determine which individuals get blurbed, and the bar is rightly very high. I just don't see Yeager as transformative or the "Nelson Mandela" of his field.  — Amakuru (talk) 12:59, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb. Regardless of his own participation, Yeager was certainly the public face of a project which, in itself, was transformative. The analogy to an astronaut is a reasonable one. —Brigade Piron (talk) 10:19, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose On quality, a lot of uncited paras here and other. Conflicted about a blurb if the issues are fixed, he is clearly notable in the US with a 'first' to his name but the notability doesn't go beyond that. Gotitbro (talk) 11:29, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb I'm baffled as to how this could be considered a no-brainer or how breaking the sound barrier is in any way comparable to being the first person to step foot on the Moon. He is nowhere near as well known as Armstrong. P-K3 (talk) 13:30, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb - In a field of highly competent test pilots - a category that includes other greats such as Jim McDivitt, Wally Schirra, Alan Shepard, and of course Neil Armstrong himself - he happened to be the one that broke the sound barrier. But that doesn't have the same impact to humanity as Neil being the first man on the Moon did. Great guy, but not a sui generis blurbable figure.--WaltCip-(talk) 13:42, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strongly Support blurb - He's not notable for only one event. He was a fighter ace, which he achieved in one day. He is most remembered for breaking the sound barrier, which is a landmark achievement in human history, and certainly more impressive than a career actor. -- Veggies (talk) 14:16, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Marked Ready The article has 66 citations, at least three were added in the last 24 hours. The number of uncited paragraphs is a small fraction of the total. There are no maintenance tags on the article. It is rated B-class prior to the numerous updates of the last 24 hours. As for "transformativeness", the fact that the death is front page news across the United States, and even on the BBC and ABC (Australia) websites at the moment (load them and ctrl-F for "Yeager"), indicates that the subject's legacy is very strong and that a blurb is appropriate. Jehochman Talk 14:25, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • I opened to check and saw a wall of CN tags. it is definitely not ready, so I have removed that tag. Even one unsourced paragraph (outside the lede) is not appropriate for a bio , especially if editors are arguing for a blurb. --Masem (t) 14:40, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • Template:U heavily tag bombed the article[28] after I reviewed it. This is not WP:FAC, but it seems like some editors want to treat it that way because they like to set higher standards for topics related to the United States. Sigh. The article quality is reasonably good and comparable to other articles we post here, and while it could be improved with more citations, none of the material lacking citations appears to be dubious. Jehochman Talk 14:50, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        • It's a bio, still under BLP (per the recent death aspect), and thus still subject to the same sourcing standards. And bios at ITN we expect quality sourcing (this is why many actors and the like tend to not get posted because their bios are not fully sourced). --Masem (t) 14:55, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
          • I think you're being too rigid. I agree that any potentially controversial fact in a bio must be cited. Looking at the article, the missing cites are a bunch of nit picking. The uncited statements could be removed and the article would remain intact and sufficient. All Wikipedia articles are works in progress. We should not let perfect be the enemy of good. Our readers are looking for information about this person now. We should deliver it on the home page. Jehochman Talk 15:00, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
            • That they have to type "chuck yeager" in the search bar vs a click in the ITN box should not be a reason to rush through an article that is currently at poor quality just to have it on the front page. Too many times in the page that's been rushed (importance over quality) only to have to pull back. Readers can still find the article, its not like we're hiding the article from total exposure at all. --Masem (t) 15:06, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
To be clear, I don't think Template:U did anything unproductive. THey tagged the article, but are now busy adding references. That's good work. Jehochman Talk 15:37, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
 
Yeager, 1947
  • Comment – Is that 1969 Air Force photo the best pic to illustrate this? He's still generally remembered for breaking the sound barrier 22 years earlier in the Bell X-1 he named "Glamorous Glennis." – Sca (talk) 14:41, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The photo you suggest is much more interesting. Jehochman Talk 14:53, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose blurb The name is "household" probably for a narrow demographic - after the test flight he was a hero figure for numerous kids and got attached to a lot of toys and video games. But unlike, say, John Glenn, who expanded on his achievement even more by entering politics, Yeager didn't really do much else. He wasn't a transformational figure for that purpose, as others have suggested, the right man at the right time for that flight. --Masem (t) 14:58, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Sean Connery was transformational because??? Chuck Yeager is such a cultural icon that he was featured in the movie The Right Stuff (film) in the first scenes of the film. "The name is household for a narrow demographic"? Thanks for your ill-informed personal opinion. If that's true, why is Chuck Yeager featured on the front page of every American newspaper at the moment. Go ahead and point out any major United States newspaper website right now that doesn't contain the word "Yeager" on its home page. I'll wait. Jehochman Talk 15:04, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • I would consider myself part of that narrow demographic - an American youth with a bent in science/engineering/thrill seeking in that time period. I fully respect his name and the milestone, but I also recognize that unlike someone like John Glenn or Neil Armstrong, Yeager did not get much further recognition for most things outside this. Go a generation or so after me and its hard to find name recognition there at all. (Not that his fame was "fly by night", simply that history does not have the same recall as it had for Glenn or Armstrong). He further didn't "transform" the field of test flights, only became the name most associated with that. --Masem (t) 16:23, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb due to the massive achievement of breaking the sound barrier --In actu (Guerillero) Parlez Moi 15:07, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support That fool McGuckett sprayed runway foam all over Chuck Yeager's Acura! Now get posting, or I'll tear you up like a Kleenex at a snot party! etc, etc.... Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 15:34, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Ready We currently have Sébastien Ogier as the featured ITN picture. His article is rated C-class. Yeager is rated B-class. This anti-American bias has to stop. Let's please post this. If you want to really be a help, please add references where needed. I support article quality improvement. I don't support using different standards for different articles. Jehochman Talk 15:33, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • We don't consider the assessment scales since those are done by Wikiprojects and have different standards. And its nothing against American here, just that we have a person that has been well documented for being an American "hero" but editors that have put this article together in the past failed to include references so there's a rush to add them now to fix that. That's not a bias against American bios, just sloppy sloppy editing from the past on American bios, which is not ITN's fault. --Masem (t) 15:47, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose blurb as he's just one of many people in the same field, as mentioned by many editors above. The fact he broke a record when many people were doing similar things doesn't make him "top of his field". Sébastien Ogier is not a relevant comparison, as that ITN is not for a death, but an ITNR event. Also don't believe this should have been marked as ready when there isn't a clear consensus to post. Joseph2302 (talk) 15:39, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Unmarked as Ready There is clearly no consensus to post a blurb (at the moment) and it isn't ready to post anyway due to a significant number of CN tags in it. If it's important it should be easy to cite, and if it's obscure or trivial it doesn't need to be there. Black Kite (talk) 15:43, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support – (When issues fixed.) Breaking the sound barrier was a significant, and at least thematically transformative, event. – Sca (talk) 15:59, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb, but oppose both for quality per Jehochman. Granted that my childhood was perhaps more focussed on aviation and aerospace programs than others, but he is and was was definitely a household name to me. There are, though, far too many CNs for the front page right now. -- a lad insane (channel two) 16:14, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb Though quality issues are present currently. Very notable guy. ~ Destroyer🌀🌀 16:32, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong oppose blurb - there is absolutely no way this guy meets the threshold when we wouldn't post Eddie Van Halen or Alex Trebek. I'd never heard of this man until today, and aside from being the first person to fly faster than sound (a rather arbitrary milestone IMO), his death was not unexpected, notable, nor has it resulted in an international outpouring of grief. He is not at the top of his field (unless "Test pilots" represents a substantial enough field). John Lennon's death is receiving more coverage today, and it happened 40 years ago! If this is posted as a blurb then it will show not only a horrific American bias, but a pile-on for hardly-game-changing military veterans. - Floydian τ ¢ 16:48, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The horrific Americans raise their ugly heads once again. Help!Sca (talk) 17:10, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment just to clarify, the speed of sound was not some arbitrary milestone, as if we picked a number because it sounded cool. Flying at exactly the speed of sound means that you're perpetually flying on top of your own pressure wave, which increases its strength and instability and puts it directly on top of your own plane, which is death to aircraft, especially back then. This effect increased the closer you were to the speed of sound, which is why it was a major barrier to early pilots and aircraft designers. NorthernFalcon (talk) 17:20, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Update: About 70% of the citations needed have been supplied. The article now has 80 citations. There are 5-6 cn tags remaining. Please help fix them. Jehochman Talk 17:13, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb, support RD: I usually groan when people reject things due to being American-centric as I usually think those people go a bit too far, but I just don't think Yeager is as transformative a figure in American aviation, let alone the world.  Bait30  Talk 2 me pls? 17:15, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Well, at the time, it had never been done, and people weren't entirely sure what would happen if it was. Some WWII piston-engine fighters, in high-speed dives, had encountered a violent shaking problem near the speed of sound.
(There was some speculation the a German Me 262 jet might have exceeded the speed of sound in diving, but this was never substantiated.)
Sca (talk) 17:49, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb. I think I have to come down on the oppose blurb side, but I think it is a close call. I'm persuaded by what I see here. I would note that "we didn't post X, so we shouldn't post Y" is a poor argument against posting. 331dot (talk) 17:52, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Blurb when article cn's are finalised (5 left -v- 106 references). Absolutely a leader in his field JW 1961 Talk 18:28, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I just fixed the last 6 citation needed tags. As far as I know, there are no remaining issues with the article. Jehochman Talk 18:45, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Attention needed Could an uninvolved admin please decide whether to post this to RD or a blurb? At least the article update and quality issues have been resolved. Jehochman Talk 18:50, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted to RD, discussion on blurb can continue. Good work on fixing the CN tags. Black Kite (talk) 18:55, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - This is a cluster. We have roughly equal numbers of people, on one side claiming that Yeager is transformative, and on another side claiming that he isn't. This is why the sui generis discussion took place in terms of what is considered suitable for posting a recent death as a blurb. There needs to be a clear dividing line wherein the discussion is not swayed about by subjectivity and the numbers of people gathering on one side of an argument versus another. As long as we don't have that line, we'll always be mired in this mess. --WaltCip-(talk) 19:54, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think the issue is that people are divided on what "transformative figure in their field" means, or how it applies to this specific case, which is why we have this division. I'm not sure we can or should define it more stringently than that--those five words speak for themselves--and while for some emotions run high, I think this discussion process leading to a consensus or non-consensus has to be the way to go. Some people truly believe that Chuck Yeager was transformative for his field, other people believe he was not, and that difference of opinion is okay. NorthernFalcon (talk) 20:37, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb Notable yes, transformative no. I don't see how his feat transformed aviation or, at the very least, exerted major changes in the production of new aircraft. And frankly speaking, the record is mere trivia with the sound barrier being an arbitrary threshold. An example of first-time event event with transformative impact is Alexei Leonov's spacewalk, which literally changed the history of astronautics (of course, we posted it).--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 20:12, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • No opinion on blurb, but I suggest whoever does ultimately try to evaluate this for consensus ignore comments from people who say breaking the sound barrier is an "arbitrary threshold", as they do not know what they are talking about. Or at least don't know what the word "arbitrary" means. --Floquenbeam (talk) 20:16, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Template:Edit conflict Template:Reply I think people don't get the point of my comment but that's their own problem. The sound barrier was known to be breakable through whipping long before he did it while operating an aircraft. So, he didn't prove that something physically impossible was, in fact, possible but provided another instance of how it can be done. Furthermore, similar problems occur at any speed higher than the speed of sound and that makes any improvement in the maximum achievable speed a new threshold on its own. Putting this aside, those claiming that this is transformative have provided absolutely nothing to support how his feat transformed aviation. Finally, Andy Green has become the first person to break the sound barrier while navigating a land vehicle. Does this make him blurbworthy when he dies? It's the same here.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 22:08, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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(Stale) RD: Dick Allen

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I've beefed up the citations. What other tags are missing? Dralwik|Have a Chat 21:39, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Still missing quite a few citations. I'll go in and add a few tags later today. Gex4pls (talk) 03:20, 9 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Template:Ping, Template:Ping How does the article look now? Dralwik|Have a Chat 21:13, 9 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Template:Ping Seems perfect, I'll change my oppose to a support. Thanks, Gex4pls (talk) 02:46, 10 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Still seeing some dangling sentences (without refs) in the career section and the statistics table needs sources. Gotitbro (talk) 03:48, 10 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The stats table comes from Baseball Reference (which is cited elsewhere in the article) and I wasn't sure on where to place the citation in relation to the overall table. Dralwik|Have a Chat 05:01, 10 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I've stuck cites on the table itself, and cited more spots in the career. Too late now for the main page, but at least the article is much improved in honor of Allen. Dralwik|Have a Chat 21:36, 10 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Template:U: It's still not older than the last RD currently on the Main Page, so technically it still qualifies be posted. I added a few more refs. However, I tagged a ref needed at the start of the "Chicago White Sox" section regarding the statement about his attitude and changing positions.—Bagumba (talk) 07:34, 11 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Stale) RD: Natalie Desselle-Reid

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(Attention needed) 2020 Venezuelan parliamentary election

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Surprise!Sca (talk) 14:10, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Why are we using <small> here? Regards, Jeromi Mikhael (marhata) 16:05, 7 December 2020 (UTC) [reply]
'Cuz it's an aside. – Sca (talk) 23:10, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb or Altblurb As with any other election in a major country, article appears well sourced. There are controversies with this election which are addressed but still kept factual in the altblurb. Albertaont (talk) 17:20, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support for main blurb, as it is customary for this type of election. I'd suggest more information from the introduction is reflected, such as the rejection of the results by other countries, but this is probably one of the most neutral and non-controversial blurbs, so it should do. --NoonIcarus (talk) 18:03, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Not really big on venezuelan politics, but this seems important enough and controversial. Gex4pls (talk) 20:16, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Support on quality but shouldn't we like include in the blurb a mention that the election was illegitimate? I genuinely don't know post elections from for example North Korea, but we don't post them as is, right? CoronaOneLove (talk) 21:12, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
We don't post judgements about the legitimacy of the election. The current President of the United States and his supporters say the 2020 election he lost is illegitimate. We post rigged Russian elections. 331dot (talk) 21:15, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Template:Citation needed
But that it was boycotted is not a judg(e)ment, it's a fact, from the RS stories I've read. So it should somehow be included in the blurb, IMO. – Sca (talk) 23:20, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Template:U Mentioning a boycott is different than saying the election was illegitimate(as the OP said). 331dot (talk) 10:19, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the changes :) --cyrfaw (talk) 14:05, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Template:Ping Welcome! I'll look forward to help out with any other possible improvements. --NoonIcarus (talk) 14:27, 9 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The international reactions of the election should be added as well, as there are divided reactions across the world, including Latin America. Add in a different section of the article. --cyrfaw (talk) 14:49, 11 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

December 6

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(Posted) RD: Soedardjat Nataatmadja

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(Posted) RD: Paul Sarbanes

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(Closed) RD: Peter Alliss

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(Withdrawn) Juliari Batubara

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  • Oppose – Country (Indonesia) not ID'd in blurbs. Juliari "could face life imprisonment or the death penalty if convicted." Posting might be appropriate if convicted & sentenced. – Sca (talk) 14:43, 6 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose on principle - he has only been arrested, no trial has yet been held. It would be different if we were talking the sitting PM of India or the like. --Masem (t) 14:48, 6 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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(Posted) 2020 World Rally Championship

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(Posted) RD: Tabaré Vázquez

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Support RD after excellent referencing work by TDKR Chicago 101 - Dumelow (talk) 12:02, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Template:U Template:U: Comment, I would not oppose that he wouldn't be posted as blurb, even though he was a transformative Uruguayan president. The article is a mess but until the middle of next week I will not have the time that I would like to dedicate to improve it, so I would be grateful if someone could give me a helping hand, to me and some who are doing some specific editions. Alsoriano97 (talk) 22:04, 6 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

December 5

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(Posted) RD: Belinda Bozzoli

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Not much time to edit today but I have expanded a little more here - Dumelow (talk) 14:02, 6 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Hayabusa2

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December 4

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(Posted) RD: James Odongo

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(Posted) RD: Ferenc Tóth (politician)

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(Closed) RD: David Lander

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(Closed) RD: Jayant Meghani

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(Posted) RD: Narinder Singh Kapany

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(Posted) Montenegrin PM

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  • Oppose for now, the personal article needs more references, the PM of of Montenegro article has only 1 reference (to an article on the PM of Kosovo) JW 1961 Talk 16:55, 4 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    I think that this news is important enough for publication, also i think that the main article is more informative, as well more referenced than the recently published article on the new Lithuanian PM, for example. -WalterII (talk) 13:35, 5 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes of course it is important enough. It was the article sourcing quality I had reservations about. The article on Zdravko Krivokapić is now improved enough for the main page, but, I would still have concerns that the PM article has only a single source JW 1961 Talk 15:33, 5 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Since this is not a normal electoral change, it should be explained in the blurb how he came to power; also an uncommon acronym (DPS) shouldn't be in there. Gotitbro (talk) 16:58, 4 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

December 3

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(Posted) RD: Maria Fyfe

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So taut it's thin. – Sca (talk) 14:21, 5 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Alison Lurie

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  • Thank you. I would do more, but I am not familiar with how this kind of article should be structured. I agree with you that it is not comprehensive with her literary impact (or writing career in general). Aoba47 (talk) 19:16, 4 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think there's enough in there now about her life and work for a full-throated support. (Not to toot my own horn re: the additions, of course :) ) Important, Pulitzer-winning novelist with obits in all major English-language papers, and would be a nice corrective the pretty egregious male dominance of RD these days. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 20:23, 4 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Bill Fitsell

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(Posted) RD: Jutta Lampe

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(Posted) RD: Betsy Wade

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(Posted) RD: Dharampal Gulati

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(Posted) Ongoing: 2020 Indian farmers' protest

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  • Support The article is light on the scale of the protests (no mention of number of protesters), but its definitely in non-indian news as well over the past week. There are sympathy protests with the farmers outside of India, to a lesser extent. Albertaont (talk) 04:19, 3 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Number of protestors added. DTM (talk) 09:59, 3 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
One round of copyediting complete. DTM (talk) 13:20, 3 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Could use some more cleaning. "Awards return", "announced to return his award" and "Chief minister of Punjab" not being properly capitalised are 3 grammar/MOS issues in just the last 2 lines of the article and a subsection's title. The article may need some editors who focus on grammar and MOS. 45.251.33.78 (talk) 04:24, 4 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I have listed the demands in its own section 2020 Indian farmers' protest#List_of_farmer_demands. The provisions are elaborated in the clearly linked parent article Indian farm reforms 2020. However as the demands show, the demands encompass more than just the three new laws. Nevertheless, changes can be made as you said. DTM (talk) 12:39, 3 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"RS coverage seems slight" — seriously? DTM (talk) 15:08, 3 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
One source listed above. – Sca (talk) 15:42, 3 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support once MOS issues have been fixed because... yikes This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 15:19, 3 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Article quality seems to have improved; it's not perfect and I encourage continued work, but it looks passable. It is very well referenced, and seems to cover well all of the main issues. Seems like a good target for an Ongoing link. --Jayron32 15:24, 3 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support I was going to oppose this yesterday as "tens of thousands" is not a high percentage in India and the quality of the article wasn't there, but after separately reading that these were in the 100k's of ppl now and seeing that incorporated into this article as well as the further expansion, this is clearly significant with the events from last weekend (road blockages, etc.) --Masem (t) 15:30, 3 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose on quality grounds. The article may be well-referenced, but it is poorly written. One of the purposes of ITN is "To showcase quality Wikipedia content on current events," and I do not believe the article meets that standard. -- Calidum 15:32, 3 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: don't we usually blurb first and then consider ongoing later? Could a blurb be proposed for this item? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 11:25, 4 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • The protests have been going on since August so a blurb would be "stale" but they have ramped up over last weekend. There is no requirement for a ongoing to start with a blurb. --Masem (t) 14:08, 4 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • This was my thought as well. Usually if something is newsworthy enough for Ongoing, it starts with a blurb. Readers won't necessarily know what this is about, but if we give them a headline story first, then bump it down to Ongoing once that's rolled off, it's much better.  — Amakuru (talk) 10:12, 5 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - the protests follow the 26 November 24-hour strike by 250 million people (= 25 crore) according to trade unions' estimates (Deccan Herald; Tribune (Chandigarh)). Without a police (or BJP) counterclaim, the estimate so far appears to be unchallenged. This does sound like a world record. The Delhi ongoing blockade is gradually attracting more and more worldwide media attention. I did a bit of tidying in the article. Boud (talk) 02:10, 5 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Blurb1 proposal:
In India, a quarter of a billion strike for 24 hours and 100,000 continue with a farmers' siege of New Delhi.
Boud (talk) 20:36, 5 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comments - since the BBC says "hundreds of thousands", we could put 200,000, following the minimal literal interpretation policy that seems to be the preferred en.Wikipedia standard. But this is not the place to dispute numbers, so 100,000 would seem safer to me. A tricky thing for the blurb is the historical ambiguity in the word "Indians" - people of India versus Native Americans, which is why I avoided the word. Boud (talk) 20:41, 5 December 2020 (UTC) I fixed the typo (seige/siege) and posted the blurb above, and removed 'add' from the 'ongoing' parameter since otherwise the blurb would not display. Boud (talk) 21:49, 5 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Journalism rule: Never assume anything. We definitely should not guess at the number of protesting farmers. (And the blurb is sensationalized in this respect.) Topic getting stale. – Sca (talk) 14:50, 6 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I've no idea what "assume" is supposed to apply to - these numbers are from the sources. India Today says 200-300,000 farmers have besieged Delhi. As for "stale", the next national strike is planned for 8 December. There's no sign of the farmers giving up. Boud (talk) 16:22, 6 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Is there a reason this hasnt been posted? We have gone straight to on-going in the past, and a blurb just belabors the point since it would just be an attempt to capture what is going on today. Added altblurb 2 if blurb seems sensational. Albertaont (talk) 15:33, 6 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Whether with a blurb or directly to Ongoing, this should be posted. There seems to be a last-minute objection from Sca, but the objection lacks explanation and is difficult to understand in comparison to the article. Boud (talk) 16:22, 6 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Suggest you rewind your watch. – Sca (talk) 17:14, 6 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Let's quote the source(s) on "hundreds of thousands," then. Let's not pull a number out of the air, however reasonable it might seem. – Sca (talk) 17:02, 6 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Boud (talk) 21:33, 6 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment This is an ongoing siege of the government of the biggest democracy in the world, it's well-covered in en.Wikipedia by the usual criteria, and we have a strong (not perfect) consensus to post. Boud (talk) 16:42, 6 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb – It seems very appropriate for Ongoing, but not for a blurb. Factors include lack of reported casualties and its essentially parochial character, regardless of whatever numbers may be guessed at – and the lack of general RS confirmation. – Sca (talk) 17:06, 6 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Whether this is posted with a blurb or immediately as Ongoing is a minor issue. Regarding deaths or injuries ("casualties"): Wikipedia ITN is not intended to be a tabloid where blood is required for coverage. Regarding "parochial" - India is the world's biggest democracy. There are plenty of sources: claiming otherwise won't make them disappear. This is not the USopedia or UKopedia. Boud (talk) 21:17, 6 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The world's most populous democracy. – Sca (talk) 23:25, 6 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Are we missing something right here? There doesn't seem to be opposition (the only oppose was for quality issues that had long been fixed). Do we have conflicts of interest which prevent this from being posted? Albertaont (talk) 04:25, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Template:Posted altblurb — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 14:33, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pull The article seems to be quite poor quality. I just read it to understand the issue, as it had not appeared in any news report that I'd read or seen, unlike Brexit say, which is all over the news. The article kept talking about the "mandi" system as a key demand of the farmers but doesn't explain it and we don't have an article. After some research, I find a source which explains that these mandis are local markets for produce – the sort of topic that we might cover under a English title like marketplace or agricultural marketing. The word seems to be Hindi but this is the English-language Wikipedia. The article uses other foreign words like Gherao, Dharna and Raasta roko which will likewise be incomprehensible to our English-language readership.
Now, this may not just be a matter of language. While searching the BBC for this topic, the main article I found was India farmers: Misleading content shared about the protests from the BBC Reality Check unit. This explains that misinformation about this matter is being spread deliberately online. As we therefore need to be extra vigilant, we should not be promoting the topic on our main page without more scrutiny. Getting it all written in English would be a start.
Andrew🐉(talk) 20:20, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep There is no requirement for an en.Wikipedia article to be necessarily written in US or UK English, it can perfect well be written in Indian English, especially for a topic about the world's most populous democracy, in which English is an official language, but diverges in ways that are unsurprising when a huge number of people use the language regularly. The boundary of when a word counts purely in one language or not is fluid.
Misinformation occurs on almost any topic that is newsworthy. Should we remove the COVID-19 related links from the main page because there are anti-vaxxers and conspiracy theorists who think COVID-19 is a hoax? Obviously not. You are welcome to edit the article to improve the understandability for English speakers whose knowledge of English is restricted to only the UK and US versions and who are upset that a part of the world that Britain massively pillaged from to build its wealth has dared to develop its own, rich variety of English.
There seems to be a hint here that the argument is that brown-skinned Oriental people who speak another variety of English than UK or US English seem to be organising mass civil disobedience because they're incapable of understanding that they've been politically manipulated and misinformed. That would not be a valid reason for removing the link. Mahatma Gandhi responded to that over 70 years ago. Boud (talk) 01:51, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pull – Per previous and my posts above, this one time I support pulling the blurb. This smacks of an overblown cause celebre. The AP photo series of three days ago was very good at illustrating the event(s) but not really informative at all. – Sca (talk) 23:30, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Don't pull. I see little wrong with the article myself, and this is clearly a very major deal and ongoing headline news in India.  — Amakuru (talk) 23:45, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

December 2

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(Closed) RD: Rafer Johnson

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(Blurb posted) RD: Valéry Giscard d'Estaing

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RD is for deaths that aren't important enough for blurbs, such as this one. Importance means; a stand-alone article on the person's death and/or funeral could be supported. Note the distinguishing between the person and their death. Abductive (reasoning) 07:35, 3 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Template:Re I think you put your reply in the wrong place. Gotitbro (talk) 13:46, 3 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed: "ITNC has a bias towards American officeholders." Anyway, some users have alleged such here in the past. – Sca (talk) 15:47, 3 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong post-posting blurb support Household name in Europe. We posted some literalwho American judge who was like a 100-years old when she died, and people are opposing the blurb about the last president of France under whom the country actually meant something on the world stage? Cringe.
    Also, proposing an alt-blurb that mentions Covid-19. CoronaOneLove (talk) 17:06, 3 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb regardless of being a household name or not, I think blurb posting for any former leader of the G7/8/20 countries is a no-brainer (as long as the rest of the ITN requirements are met). --Masem (t) 17:09, 3 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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(Posted) RD: Zafarullah Khan Jamali

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(Posted) RD: Walter E. Williams

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(Closed) RD: Pat Patterson

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(Posted) RD: Mohamed Abarhoun

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Fair point, I'll see if I can find something more on his career. It'll probably be tomorrow - Dumelow (talk) 22:01, 2 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Hi The Rambling Man, I've fleshed out the club career section a bit more now - Dumelow (talk) 08:48, 3 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Support good work. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 08:56, 3 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Banner updated) BNT162b2

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In light of comments below, I think we should make COVID-19 vaccine a link in the banner. It's already there in many of the links, but we might as well put it directly.130.233.213.199 (talk) 05:49, 3 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
A "strong oppose" carries no more weight than an "oppose." – Sca (talk)
Template:Reply I know. But when you see that people continue to nominate COVID-related items for a blurb while the banner is still on the top and, more importantly, it can benefit from the nomination, you need to react somehow and that's a good sign to use an intensifier.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 15:33, 2 December 2020 (UTC) [reply]
We should rely on the sagacity of our comments to persuade our colleagues. "Strong" seems to imply an emotional commitment more than a reasoned argument, IMO. – Sca (talk) 15:51, 2 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: the comment about it being the first in the West is a bit of a red herring, the point is it's the first that has completed clinical trials and been demonstrated to be effective. Modest Genius talk 15:20, 2 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    It has not "completed trials", because otherwise it wouldn't have been given emergency authorization. Volunteers continue to be monitored, and its not like those in the placebo group are now authorized to take the full vaccine as the study has closed. Albertaont (talk) 15:49, 2 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment – In widespread RS coverage, the vaccine is generally referred to as "the vaccine from American drugmaker Pfizer and Germany’s BioNTech (AP) or simply "the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine (Guardian). For Wikipedia's audience, there's no point in calling it "the BNT162b2 COVID-19 vaccine." Why force readers to follow a linked jargony acronym only to read in the first sentence that it's a vaccine "developed by BioNTech and Pfizer" – ?? This is pure techie obfuscation – and it doesn't read well either. – Sca (talk) 15:31, 2 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    A rename or pipe to a more common / descriptive name would be pretty reasonable! Something like Template:Tq -> Template:Tq or Template:Tq? — MarkH21talk 20:14, 2 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support and/or Update banner As Kiril Simeonovski notes, there is no reason why we shouldn't have a link to COVID-19 vaccine in the banner since that is the main focus of news coverage at this stage. I'm not opposed to posting this story in lieu of that, however. Teemu08 (talk) 16:00, 2 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not opposed to the COVID-19 vaccine link, just to the BNT162b2 one – which BTW makes a very clumsy title for an article.
Sca (talk) 16:15, 2 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I also thought that the article title is clumsy and not intuitive, but it turns out that is the convention per WP:NCMED: Template:Tq.  Bait30  Talk 2 me pls? 20:20, 2 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
WP:IAR – Our loyalty should be to the readers, not to to the multifarious Rule Book. – Sca (talk) 23:24, 2 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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December 1

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(Posted) RD: Hugh Keays-Byrne

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(Posted) RD: George Ross Anderson Jr.

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(Posted) RD: Maria Itkina

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(Posted) RD: Brian Kerr, Baron Kerr of Tonaghmore

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Good point, there was no criteria for selection. I've removed the section and added those not mentioned in the text to "see also" - Dumelow (talk) 23:07, 2 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Arecibo observatory

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Are you sure that this was posted before? In any event, this is analogous to a death. 7&6=thirteen () 17:31, 1 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Closure was on ITN from 20 Nov to 25 Nov. Just answering the question, no opinion on adding a new blurb. --Floquenbeam (talk) 17:48, 1 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose We already posted this, so recently that I think it was the last blurb to roll off the main page. --Jayron32 17:50, 1 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose (Yes we posted the decommissioning already). They knew that if this wasn't decommissioned in a controlled manner soon, it was going to collapse, the question of how disasterous the collapse. While this has destroys the dish and receiver, ending the telescope's "life", the damage from it was not as bad as they had feared (no injuries, some structural damage to remaining buildings), so while a sad event, I think most were already prepared back on Nov 19 when the decommissioning was announced. --Masem (t) 17:52, 1 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose: we posted that it was being decommissioned already. It was being decommissioned because it was old and on the verge of collapse. Now it collapsed. Not really unexpected or newsworthy.  Bait30  Talk 2 me pls? 19:01, 1 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – Per previous. Suggest snow. – Sca (talk) 19:33, 1 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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(Closed) Chang'e 5 Landing

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  • Oppose I think we want to affirm it returns to Earth, which should be in two weeks, IIRC. That would mark the successful mission. (It hasn't made the return so its not really a full sample-return mission yet). --Masem (t) 17:53, 1 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Masem. The spacecraft has not yet reached its destination, which is Earth. GreatCaesarsGhost 18:00, 1 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    That's quite frankly ridiculous. If you go on holiday to X. Your holiday distination is X, not your home despite knowing you would be returning with souvenirs. -- KTC (talk) 18:02, 1 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes, it matches the ITNR, but the fact that its return would also be an ITNR means we'd probably want to wait for the latter since it will be very very soon. If this was a return-sample mission to Mars where the return would take several months, that would be different as we'd not have to worry about piggybacking stories on the same thing. --Masem (t) 18:08, 1 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Hey, I tried to reduce the number of space exploration (wouldn't have affected this one) on ITNR, those that supported on here didn't comment, a number of those that commented objected to it there. They suggested that if people bothered to update the articles, it should be posted. So here we are, an article that has sufficient details, meets ITNR, so post it. -- KTC (talk) 18:20, 1 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    It is not listed as ITNR on return to earth, only on reaching the moon. There is no ITNR for returning to earth in the criteria. Albertaont (talk) 20:00, 1 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Don't be so obtuse. A destination is the end of a journey. I go on a journey to my holiday destination, at which point the journey is over. The trip home is a separate journey. Has Chang'e reached the end of its journey? No. GreatCaesarsGhost 19:45, 1 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Template:U I can equally argue that Chang'e has reached the end of it's "first" journey but that's not what's important. What's important is whether this meets the ITNR criteria, and it does, when applying the criteria as it was intended. Also: the point of the mission is to go to the moon AND come back, NOT only coming back. Had Chang' e not landed on the moon, this mission would have been useless. 74.101.118.65 (talk) 21:31, 1 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Correct - you could argue either way; my position is not "ridiculous" as another editor rudely opined. You say the distinction is unimportant because this is ITNR, but the distinction defines if it is ITNR. Given that the key objective of the mission is to return specimens, the return to Earth would seem to be plainly more significant than the craft reaching the moon. GreatCaesarsGhost 14:13, 2 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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(Closed) Mahara prison riot

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  • Comment I have done a full article CE. Coverage is global and the article is well composed and referenced. The lede is too long, and the parts dealing with the riot should be broken off into their own section. It is odd to find an article with only sections named Background and Aftermath. Perhaps Riot and fire is needed in between. A few details don't make sense to me; was the "fire from the Mahara fire" a secondary fire, and is "succumbed" used to mean "died" (the 8 prisoners) or "subdued" (in the whole prison population)? Will support once these are done.130.233.213.199 (talk) 07:50, 1 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose For now, too short ATM. Also this seems to be connected with COVID, which is being avoided for blurbs unless especially notable (the blurb should also reflect the COVID relation which is the reason for its coverage in news). Gotitbro (talk) 10:56, 1 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Not widely covered in media, lede is much longer than body, among other general quality concerns with the article. Albertaont (talk) 02:50, 2 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose Not widely covered, article is not great This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 04:04, 2 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Article is stubby, and event seems a bit too local for ITN (though if death toll rises past say, 30, I'd support) Gex4pls (talk) 04:35, 2 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment While I agree that the article quality needs to improve, what's the objection to coverage? CNN (sourced from Reuters), Guardian (apparently independently sourced), and Al Jazeera (sourced from AFP). That's at least 5 sources representing 3 languages and 3 continents, just taking the links in the nom.130.233.213.199 (talk) 06:14, 2 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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