User talk:Eric Corbett/Archives/2012/January

Evidence

Malleus, do not put up evidence in a few days as you suggested. Take this as much harder and much more important work than writing an FA. Work it entirely offline, and run it by multiple editors before you put anything in the public view. That's what I did in my successful case, and it was through the kindness and objectivity of others that reason prevailed and my evidence was effective. Don't do this alone-- anything you say can and will be used against you. And, after you've run it by several others offline, then sandbox it before you add it to the case. This is important-- I've seen good editors hang themselves by putting up ineffective, too long, and overly personalized evidence. Others will help, including some who worked to make sure my evidence was as good as it could be. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:33, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

OK, good advice that I'll certainly take. I'm very aware that anything I say is likely to be manipulated and distorted into something I never meant to say. Malleus Fatuorum 18:55, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Agreed that it is a very good idea. One point in particular comes to mind. I tend to think that, in general, the ArbCom may well be more lenient regarding conduct if the conduct of others which provoked it was at least similarly questionable. Having said that, making the case too much of a "s/he started it" affair might not be good, particularly if one winds up "accusing" individuals who aren't necessarily relevant to the evidence presented by others, and that might be important given the fact that school is probably more demanding on a lot of people at this time. So maybe assembling diffs in userspace regarding the possible misconduct of others, and adding it only when your own conduct in that matter is raised by others, might work best. Just an idea, anyway. John Carter (talk) 19:27, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

I took part in a discussion, it was either on this page or WT:RFA, in which I and others stated that the civility problem is unsolvable. No matter what arbcom does in this case regarding the civility issues, it won't work. So my suggestion to Malleus is to stay out of the arbcom mess and do what you're so good at, writing great articles. And oh by the way, we need good pre-FAC reviews over at Yogo sapphire. ;-) PumpkinSky talk 19:31, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

I second the advice from SG, which will be tough to follow, because it may not seem fair that you should have to put a lot of effort into the response. You know the follow up line.--SPhilbrick(Talk) 19:35, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Hi Malleus, just been watching the RL fireworks and thought I'd have a quick look before bed. I would think very carefully before contributing anything to that farce. It looks to be just power hungry arbs and admins seeking even more powers [1] and using you as their lame excuse. None of them seem to realise that it's their inexperienced and juvenile use of already excessive powers that are causing half these problems. Anyhow, happy New Year. Giacomo Returned 01:35, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

Happy New Year from me too. For once, Giano has failed to see the problem: admins have been reaching too readily for the block tool because milder interventions (short-term topic bans) are proscribed by WP:BAN. This is an absurd position. Geometry guy 01:42, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

• Happy new year to you too, while I may have a head ache this morning, I am as usual spot on. I suspect that the thought of Elonka and her mates strutting about the project topic banning left, right and centre, on subjects about which they know nothing, as they lectures in a superior, school marmish way would be just too much for most content editors to stomach. At least by compelling Admins to block competely their actions are seriously noted and reviewed, if they just issued small spiteful blocks they would tend to be dimissed and ignored bu those not interested in the topic. Had Malleus just been topic banned, many people will have just shrugged and told him to edit some place else for a while; the details would not have been explored at all. Giacomo Returned 13:20, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

  Thanks, Giano. I appreciate your point, but it all depends on the details, and basing your opinion of an idea on your opinion of an editor is not an ideal approach - but lets write that off on account of your hangover. The kind of proposal I have in mind is about administrators making a more refined sanction where they might normally impose a block: such sanctions should be subject to the same serious notification and review as a block. I've made a first attempt at WT:BAN.

  I agree with you that it is valuable that in this case Malleus' incivility/disruption and the deeply flawed response to it has resulted in an Arbitration case. However, the point of such a case is to learn lessons from it, so that we don't have to go through the same drama ad infinitum. Geometry guy 00:34, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Joining the ranks of those who are happy to have a read-through and make (hopefully) constructive comments to anything you prepare. Feel free to email me if you'd like some input. Apologies-in-advance for any unintentional schoolmarmish stuff; comes of being both a granny (therefore, by definition, female) and having also been a full-time instructor.I know perfectly well that thee and I won't see eye-to-eye on many things, but we grannies do occasionally have our uses, and input from one standing-accused-of-being-civility-police may be helpful. I hope so, in any event. Justice has always had a higher priority with me than Law. (>**)> Forcible granny-hugs for a good New Year; if the standard granny-hug is insufficient, there is always the alternative of S-BY-C (o)(o) Pesky (talk …stalk!) 14:20, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the offer, which I'll certainly take you up on. It'll take me a little while to write something up though, as motivation is a bit low during the holiday season and my wife is demanding that I finish off some jobs around the house. Women! Malleus Fatuorum 22:16, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

Friendly notification regarding this week's Signpost

Hello. This is an automated message to tell you that, as it stands, you will shortly be mentioned in this week's 'Arbitration Report' (link). The report aims to inform The Signpost's many readers about the activities of the Arbitration Committee in a non-partisan manner. Please review the article, and, if you have any concerns, feel free to leave them in the Comments section directly below the main body of text, where they will be read by a member of the editorial team. Please only edit the article yourself in the case of grievous factual errors (making sure to note such changes in the comments section), as well as refraining from edit-warring or other uncivil behaviour on project pages generally. Thank you. On behalf of The Signpost's editorial team, LivingBot (talk) 00:02, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Ah, my five minutes of fame at last. There's no such thing as bad publicity. Malleus Fatuorum 00:59, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Except in the case of Ocean Marketing Strategy! Barts1a | What did I actually do right? | What did I do wrong this time? 01:02, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Can I have your autograph?! Hold on, just let me get my camera app open... Lara 02:25, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

The time you got waterboarded on a private board (ArbCom was it?) was funnier. ResMar 04:16, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Please do link me to that of which you speak. Lara 08:20, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Copyedit

Dunno if you're available but I could sure use one for Axial Seamount. There's no itchy red banner at the top of this page, so I presume you're available? Danke, ResMar 04:16, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Double standards

Not being a dick is.....ok? Funny how a word deemed not particularly abusive by some (in the US) is fine, but a word not deemed particularly abusive by some (in the UK) is not. Parrot of Doom 21:13, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

make "don't be a cunt" an alt title or delete, good point PoD, use both or use neither. PumpkinSky talk 21:18, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

"hey, bitchez!!" 109.153.211.205 (talk) 21:26, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

Yerze, I've already agreed with the kinda logic in that one. I do appreciate that many people find the C-word more offensive than the D-word, but ... errrm ... to stretch a point ... why should a female-genitalia term be more inherently offensive than a male-genitalia term? Isn't saying that it's more offensive a bit ... errm ... well ... I dunno ... sexist? Pesky (talk …stalk!) 22:08, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

As title of this thread says, a double standard. PumpkinSky talk 22:11, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

[Pesky grins, ducks, and runs...] Pesky (talk …stalk!) 22:12, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

• Yes, the double standards are amazing. The term dick (apparently, an uncouth term for a penis) is even used here in advice to admins on how to behave in their secret IRC channel [2]. Not that that channel has vere been a place to exhibit civility and good mannners. Giacomo Returned 22:58, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

• FWIW, if anything, I don't care for usage of the word dick here, or for the wording of that essay. As for the IRC stuff, is there really a lot that people do on there? (I don't use it at all.) LadyofShalott 23:04, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

Sadly we mere mortals are not allowed to know what goes on in there, but I do seem to recall quite a lot of wrong doing in the past. I think it's a great pity that IRC has reared its ugly head again. On the other matter, I'm afraid by the laws of nature where one has dicks, "cunts" will surely follow - I don't much like either, but if one is acceptable, I fail to see how the other can be unaceptable. This trial is unjustifiable. Giacomo Returned 23:09, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

.. surely, you mean "where one has cunts, "dicks" will surely follow" ?? 109.153.211.205 (talk) 23:16, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

Quite. I find the dichotomy to be inexplicable, and the argument that in the US "cunt" is considered to be misogynistic to be unconvincing. All I'm arguing for, and all I've ever argued for here, is consistency. Malleus Fatuorum 23:17, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

I think some of the outpouring you're seeing is the vast difference in perception of the meaning of this word in the UK and the US. I've tried to explain to US editors who seem to be scratching their heads - I'm telling you flat out - it's the worst insult ever. Many many people will go their entire life never uttering the word - some will use it maybe once or twice at most. There is nothing worse. And it's always directed only at women; never at men. Truthkeeper (talk) 23:38, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

Thank you, Truthkeeper. You've stated more eloquently what I've tried to put into words elsewhere. I've lived in many different regions of the US, and your experience mirrors mine exactly. 28bytes (talk) 23:43, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

OK, well that's something I didn't know. But can you explain to me how a general comment such as "some administrator are dishonest cunts" can be interpreted as sexist? An assumption that it's only targeting female administrators seems implausible to me. Malleus Fatuorum 23:48, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

Because the word has two different meanings which no one seems to understand. I'm an American woman who has lived in Manchester - so I get it, but most don't. In the US the word is only ever used toward a woman, usually in the singular form. It's the most extreme insult that exists. It's different in BR English - though I think perhaps even there's a difference between usage in the south and the north. It's an Anglo-saxon word that's retained a different meaning where you are than the meaning it has where I am. Thus all the uproar. Adding - John was right when he wrote that we have Engvar in article space and we should in talk too. There's just a huge gulf here, and a massive misunderstanding and the pitchforks are out because you stepped over a line that you should never ever have stepped over. Truthkeeper (talk) 00:07, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

A line I didn't know was there do you mean? You're a woman, we've chatted a bit on various talk pages, have you ever suspected that I might be a misogynist? Malleus Fatuorum 00:11, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Sorry lost internet for a while there. Yes, you crossed a line that you didn't know exists. I know you're not misogynist and I know you probably wouldn't have done it if you'd understood. I'm just explaining where the outrage, which may seem disproportionate to you, is coming from. I had everyone's page unwatched at the time, missed the whole episode and didn't see any of it until it landed at the request for arbritrations - with no diffs - and to be honest haven't really had the time over the holidays to even try to figure out what happened. I noticed today someone finally linked to the original comments at RfA talk so now I've seen how it began. And I understood that you didn't realize how severely Deb was offended. But my view on these things is to walk away - I found TCO's comments to be disgusting, which I did see when they were posted and I unwatched the page. Didn't run to AN/I about it. Truthkeeper (talk) 00:50, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

I am cautious to accept this theory that in the US it is an utterly taboo word only ever directed at women for the purposes of sexism. I've travelled in the US and heard it. My American friends use it. I chatted to a girl I know who lives in NY and her take was that, as in the UK, in some circles it is seen in the way you describe. And in others it is not. I've certainly been called a cunt by Americans :) --Errant ^(chat!) 00:52, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Yeah all of us with foul mouths use it on occasion. To be very honest, I'm a woman with a foul mouth and it's a word I don't use and would never use. Seriously it has a different connotation in the US than in the UK. Anyway, I think enough said here. Truthkeeper (talk) 00:58, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Please excuse the interjection, MF. But this whole sorry episode could be seen a metaphor of the UK/US cultural dichotomy, which Wiki tries valiantly to bridge, but not always successfully. In Welsh of course, cyntaf means first. But dickhead means the same as it does in English, alas. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:57, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

It clearly is, but I still don't quite get it. If an editor from the Republic of Moldoravia turned up to say that "dick" was the worst possible sexist insult in his country would this essay be deleted as a result? Malleus Fatuorum 00:10, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

It would be if it was written in Moldoravian. Martinevans123 (talk) 00:18, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Moldoravia was conquered by the British in 1792, and has been a British colony ever since. Hence its official language is English. Granted there are many native languages, but all Moldoravians speak English. Malleus Fatuorum 00:28, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Phew, not 4 July 1776, then. And even most Welsh people speak American these days, it seems. Except when they want to be really insulting, of course! Martinevans123 (talk) 00:37, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

• I just saw your edit here [3] and would like to completely agree with that. I had never heard the word until I was incarcerated in British boys school where any boy failing at any sport was a "useless cunt" and any boy failing at an academic subject was a "complete dickhead." In adult life I have heard both words used to describe sexual organs and in adult life, I have frequently heard men described by both terms (sometimes even said affectionatly without hint of insult), but I have never ever heard a woman described as a "cunt" in any scenario. Giacomo Returned 23:35, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

Re: double standards, I'm surprised no-one has yet mentioned User_talk:TCO#A_friendly_warning. Mind you, he's a valuable editor who doesn't waste time on bringing non-vital articles to FA... Andy Dingley (talk) 23:22, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

Really, that demonstrates quite well what's wrong here, which won't be solved by excommunicating me. On what planet is it acceptable to compare the project to "pussy juice leaking from nutsacks" but not that too many administrators are "dishonest cunts"? Malleus Fatuorum 23:32, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

I use IRC regularly (in that I'm logged in regularly, many days, even if not at keyboard) - but on the whole for the most mundane chat and wolf-impressions! And odd bits of granny-type Real Life advice to those who care to PM me for same.

Malleus, in this whole civility thing, the thing which is most horribly wrong is the inconsistency with which it's applied. That is just wrong, in anybody's book. I personally dislike name-calling and belittling and demeaning of other editors, whether that includes "naughty words" or not - but my dislike of the blatant injustice of not applying standards equally to all exceeds any dislike I have of individual incivilities by orders of magnitude. As a community, we cannot afford to have the equivalent of a "postcode lottery" system for who gets reprimanded for what. Community-condoned applied injustice is one of the worst barbarities that humankind can inflict on its members. There is almost nothing so open to abuses-of-power then inadequately-defined rules or laws, inconsistently applied. It does not matter to me which individual is the perpetrator, or which individual is the victim - the unjust and inconsistent application of undefined constraints, the pick-your-own victim / move-your-own goalposts approach has to be one of the most astounding displays of pathetic incompetence in community-rule-making and community-rule-enforcement that can exist - it's a total violation of basic, fundamental principles of justice. /endrant Pesky (talk …stalk!) 00:15, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

I could sign up to that. The only good thing I can see coming from this case is that people might seriously consider writing a proper civility policy, and enforcing it even against the God-king himself. Obviously I won't be holding my breath though. Malleus Fatuorum 00:23, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

That is precisely what I want to happen. One rule for all. No matter who. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 00:27, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

@MF. You are one of the best writers around. You have strong opinions on civility and are influential. Why not draft one? Leaky Caldron 00:30, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm quite happy to help! Pesky (talk …stalk!) 00:34, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Why should I waste whatever time I have left here on writing something that would require a consensus impossible to achieve? Why don't you draft one? Malleus Fatuorum 00:36, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Derek and Clive already established long ago that calling someone a "cunt" is acceptable discourse, but calling them a "fucking cunt" is not. Who are we to disagree with such an authority? :) Geometry guy 01:25, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

It always makes me laugh. Malleus Fatuorum 01:56, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

As an American female with the foulest of mouths, I can tell you that it is not accurate to state that "cunt" is ever only directed to women in the US, as I have many times heard men referred to as such. But I will agree that it is the most insulting and offensive word in American English. And unlike its use in Britain, I don't believe it is often used in an endearing way here. That said, knowing Malleus lives on the other side of the pond, I was neither shocked by his use of the c-bomb, nor do I believe his use should carry the same assumed intent one may apply to an American, considering the way it is used in British English. Lara 01:50, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for that clarification. That's interesting - probably regional here as well. I've lived in quite a few states, some places it's more commonly used than others, some places tolerate foul-mouthed women better than others, but I've not ever heard it directed toward men. So, I stand corrected. Truthkeeper (talk) 02:18, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

I have lived in a few states, though I was in the military for two of them, so I should probably add that as a footnote now that I think about it. Military men and women, in my experience, tend to toss insults and naughty words around more frequently and in different ways than the general population. Perhaps because of interactions with those from other cultures and countries. In my hometown, it is not a word I hear or use very often, and only very rarely (a handful of times) have I heard it directed to a male. Lara 17:37, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Nobody in the UK calls women "cunts". There are all kinds of other words, but "cunt" is almost exclusively used to describe men. Parrot of Doom 02:30, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

• Further to Parrot of Doom's post above which is completely correct, perhaps it needs pointing out that calling a man a "cunt" in the UK is not questioning his sexuality (or insulting gay people) in any way - both heterosexual and homosexual men can both be useless cunts, dickheads, wankers and plonkers - all are just ways describing someone behaving like a 'fool.' I don't know what the equivalent terms are for a women (silly bitch?); I don't think there are any - perhaps one of our English lady Admins will be able to enlighten us. Giacomo Returned 09:22, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Oh yes! there is a term for a woman, I seem to remember an esteemed checkuser, senior Admin and friend of Jimbo's using in the IRC's Admin channel (by Wales decrree under the Arbcom's control), to describe a lady friend of mine. It was brought up in Arb case and the Arbcom refused to consider it. I'll see if can find the diffs. Double standards indeed; I have a memory like an elephant. Giacomo Returned 09:33, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Not quite like an elephant; it seems he wasn't a check user, but at the time an eminent wikipedian, admin and clerk to the the arbcom, you can read about it here [4]. Those that rule IRC were furious that behaviour there had leeked out and even more furious that I (a non admin) had dared to edit their precious wikipedia page describing it. This edit was enough to cause an Arbcom case [5], but the insults were not from admins was not. today, the Admins and Arbcom are still making the rules up as they go along - no one has the remotest idea where they stand and the confusion allows to editors like Malleus to be persecuted on the whims of their enemies. Giacomo Returned 09:51, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Still, the fact is that, for whatever reasons, some of our American colleagues seem to be exquisitely sensitised to certain words, and react with distressing reflexive and visceral responses if these words are displayed in front of them. Perhaps there is a software solution for this. Would it be possible for all users who identify as being afflicted with these sensitivities to be wrapped in a protective software shell, which translates the words they cannot cope with into something more acceptable. Thus, if a word such as "cunt" is used, it would translate as something they find comforting, such as "dickhead". --Epipelagic (talk) 10:03, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Haha what a spiffing idea, Epipelagic. It's a mistake, of course, to think that there is any one single language called "British English" (or one called American English for that matter?) Even though, thanks to Tony Blair, we don't have any nasty class structure here in UK any more, we still have the trusty North/South divide. I've always thought that the c-word has more currency in the South (particularly in London, but that may simply be my own prejudice). Not many people know that MF actually stands for Millwall Fan Would it be ok if, now and again. our American cousins called us fat-assed niggah muthas (that's the PC spelling for nigger, innit bro?) Martinevans123 (talk) 10:19, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

• Great idea, could the same software convert their mild and inofensive "cocksucker" into something more acceptable this side of the pond - perhaps not, I do think as a breed we do seem to be less sensitive in Britain/Europe - I wonder why that is - I put it down to these new fangled religions that they they all practice over there. Giacomo Returned 13:33, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

  Giacomo-"they all practice"? "All" does not apply to me in this case. Perhaps every other damn bloody Yank though ;-) [[User:|PumpkinSky]] talk 13:37, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

  The American obsession with religion(s) is a complete mystery to me. Malleus Fatuorum 13:42, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

• It's because they are all very wicked (except for PumpkinSky who is obviously a devout Catholic like myself) and need saving. Giacomo Returned 13:52, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

• I can appreciate your confusion. IMHO, it's because of the fact that back in Colonial days, many, many of our ancestors who came here did so because they were kicked or forced out of their home countries because of their religious views. That predisposition to be devout seems to be ingrained in us bloody Yanks, well many of us at least. Giacomo-my mom was Catholic and my dad was Baptist, so I'm a half breed. I never practiced Catholicism, sorry to disappoint. PumpkinSky talk 13:55, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

[6] Nobody Ent 14:09, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

On religion ... the inimitable Bill Hicks. And this, too - gotta be a favourite. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 21:03, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Well I remember not too long ago "bum chum" ignited all sorts of homophobic accusations which in the context intended purely meant "wiki pals who stick together through thick and thin, a bit too close for comfort." Giano went off into an angry rant about knowing gays in pain or something. Like "cocksucker" or "cunt" people can sometimes take things a little too literally. You never call a woman "cunt" and you would never call a homosexual a "bum chum" regardless of what its true meaning is. And I apologised for what I said many times unlike Malleus and was still treated awfully by certain people here. So your "the double standards are amazing" comment strikes me as highly ironic Giano given that you seem to think the use of word cunt on here is fully acceptable yet "bum chum" is extremely sinister and anti homosexual. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 13:58, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I remember that "bum chums" remark, although I can't now remember who it was directed at. Bear in mind though that the comment that earned me an indefinite block was aimed at nobody, just a general observation on some administrators. Which quickly proved to be entirely accurate, so I don't see what there is to apologise for. Nobody has the right to go through life without being offended. Malleus Fatuorum 14:08, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

• I don't want to get onto a debate about definitive terminology, and I'm not a native English speaker, but certainly when I was at school and later in rugby clubs, boxing gyms and a cricket clubs (ie male environments) "cocksucker" (especially cocksucker) and "bum chum" most definitely had offensive homosexual overtones, whereas, "a cunt" was just any general male idiot who 'fucked up.' Giacomo Returned 14:09, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Honestly "bum chum" is about as anti homosexual as "cocksucker" and I've never heard it used to talk about a homosexual. It was a phrase used many times in the school I grew up in to describe two or more friends or just spend too much time together and will defend each other through anything whatever it is and it is just a careless term for people who are overly supportive of each other, period. Yes if you take it literally you could interpret it to be a grossly offensive homophobic remarks mocking anal sex but at least where i come from it is not intended to offend in that way at it literally seems. In the same way Malleus calling somebody a cunt is about as far intended from meaning to offend women as you can get. Its just one of those careless terms that people can blow into something huge and sinister. I believe there was a comment about infoboxes or something Malleus and you and several others such as Irridescent and Risker all defended Giano and said that infoboxes are not really wanted or something. All I said was "Giano a bum chum" or something because I was amazed that his talk page was being watched and you all defended him like everybody is defending you here Malleus. Perhaps you can see how I felt at having it blown up in my face. Yes there is a real problem with saying anything on here as some people take things a little too literally and always take the worst possible insult from anything anybody says.♦ Dr. Blofeld 14:18, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

The project seems pretty clear about it's own definition. Maybe that auto-translate tool could work with a pre-defined look-up table in one's User Preferences - along the lines of Please insert the offensive remark of your choice here. Now, where did I put those festive mince pies... !? Martinevans123 (talk) 14:25, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Perhaps, but in this specific case it wasn't used in reference to a woman, rather a subset of administrators of whichever gender. Malleus Fatuorum 14:54, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

A definition of bum chum here. I meant it in the context of 1. and 3. but like the use of the c word it can be taken more offensively to mean something rather more crude like 2. than it is actually intended to be. Either way I learned that you can't really say anything on here especially which could be interpreted as racist/ homophobic/sexist or offensive to somebody because the worst case scenario always seems to emerge. Anyway, good luck Malleus preparing your case and I wish you all a Happy New Year.♦ Dr. Blofeld 14:38, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Bad news I'm afraid, whatever the merits of Cocksucker v Cunt, the omens are not good; one of the names of our new baby Arbs sounded familiar; so I checked my block log and lo and hehold there he is blocking me for using that most offensive of words: "odious"

• 22:32, 2 June 2010 LessHeard vanU (talk | contribs) unblocked GiacomoReturned (talk | contribs) ‎ (No discussion found, thus no consensus, and blocking admin was involved in discussion leading to block - "odious" is used by WP, so not forbidden.)
• 20:06, 2 June 2010 AGK (talk | contribs) blocked GiacomoReturned (talk | contribs) (account creation blocked) with an expiry time of 16 hours ‎ (Personal attacks (and repeated restoration thereof).)

Naturally, the block was decleared null and void very quickly, but it does betray his views on civility. I wonder who it who votes for these people? I don't beleive I have come across him before or since - Giacomo Returned 17:24, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes, editors can so easily get blocked, even indefinitely, and even when they mean no harm to anyone else whatsoever. It's a great shame, since it seems to lead a very divisive atmosphere of "editors vs administrators". MF's recent experience looks like a very good example of this. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:41, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Malleus is it possible you could add coord links to some of the streets in your article? I'd like to see these streets on google street view out of curiousity!♦ Dr. Blofeld 15:09, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Perhaps PoD will see this and respond. As you may imagine, I'm not in a frame of mind to do anything to any article right now. Malleus Fatuorum 15:35, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Yeah I understand. I was thinking something in brackets and the coordinates after each location mention. I checked out the one in Oxford on street view and well, it certainly has something sinister about it.. I think its the high wall running along it, a place where all sorts of mischief took place! The Ghosts of Gropecunt Lane is a novel I must write someday. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 15:40, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Co-ordinates don't help the flow of the prose, lending themselves better to a list format or something similar, so in PoD's position I'd be reluctant to introduce them in the manner suggested although there may be alternatives. Nev1 (talk) 15:44, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes I agree, but it would be nice to have a list and to be able to view them all on street view. A List of Gropecunt Lanes maybe..♦ Dr. Blofeld 15:46, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

I don't think its necessary to show the reader where each street was/is - that information is contained within this book. I have sold that book on, but I do have photographs of the relevant section (containing maps of each town) which I'm happy to upload to Dropbox if anyone would like to see them. Parrot of Doom 17:45, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

BTW, I think this clip is relevant. Parrot of Doom 17:47, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Haha, rofl. That just about sums it up, Parrot. Perfect. Suddenly all the FG characters have Wiki editor names. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:02, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Advice

Happy New Year Malleus. Can you please direct me to a very good copy-editor, if possible as good as you? :) I need someone to have a look at this. I would be immensely happy and grateful if you do it but I think you will not agree as I see that this place has recently been extravagantly unjust to you. :( Jivesh1205 (Talk) 09:59, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

User:Dank springs to mind, but (s)he is usually quite busy. User:Parrot of Doom has worked on other music articles so he may be able to help ... User:Wehwalt is often quite helpful and I'm sure there are many others; these are just the editors who came immediately to mind. Malleus Fatuorum 14:59, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Okay Malleus. Thanks. I will never forget you even if you stop editing. Meeting you on Wikipedia was one of the most important phases of my Wiki-life. :) Take care. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 15:53, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Good luck with your article. Who knows, if I survive I may even be around to help you at FAC again. :-) Malleus Fatuorum 18:04, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks Malleus. And I would sincerely appreciate your help more than anything. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 18:06, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Greetings

Hi MF, I was just reminded of you while listening to Radio 4's "The Unbelievable Truth" which just mentioned the Cotswold Olimpick Games. Happy New Year, don't let the b................... You know the rest. Take care.J3Mrs (talk) 18:41, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Ah, I wonder if that's on iPlayer yet? With this being London Olympic year I guess there's a good chance that might get a lot of hits soon. Malleus Fatuorum 18:55, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Given my experience listening to BBC programmes about subjects I'm familiar with, it'll have been taken word for word from your article. Parrot of Doom 18:56, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

I think it had, but it was nice to be reminded of it.J3Mrs (talk) 18:58, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

I do hope so. :-) In some cases though I think our articles are better; I remember being very disappointed with a Radio 4 programme about the Green children of Woolpit. Malleus Fatuorum 19:00, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

It's not a serious programme, more spot the truth in this script full of untruths, it's at the beginning so you don't have to listen to much.J3Mrs (talk) 19:06, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

The wording on an Eagle documentary followed the exact same structure as the article I wrote. And this only months after I'd proposed 1910 London to Manchester air race as an interesting radio documentary, while backing up my research with links to the aforementioned Eagle article, and to Mary Toft (which also appeared shortly after, as a docu-drama). It's the last time I ever approach anyone in the media with an idea for a programme. Parrot of Doom 19:15, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

I was looking on Abe books for a book on the Lancashire Coalfield and amongst the list was a print on demand book, Agecroft Colliery sourced from wikipedia articles. Why would anybody buy that?J3Mrs (talk) 19:19, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Not Alphascript publishers by any chance? Or similar name. There appears to be some kind of complicated scam going on, whereby print-on-demand books on obscure subjects are "manufactured" from Wikipedia articles. Ning-ning (talk) 20:16, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Why indeed. The price of some of those print on demand books is quite astonishing as well. Malleus Fatuorum 20:18, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

VDM Publishing. I gather the books are bulked out with all the linked pages, so I suppose "Guy Fawkes" will include "V for Vendetta". Ning-ning (talk) 20:25, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Noooooooooo! Say it's not true! Malleus Fatuorum 21:05, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

just FYI

.. in case you didn't know. If there is anything I can ever do to help, please don't ever hesitate to ask. It's an open invitation that won't expire .. (at least not until I do). — Ched :  ?  20:03, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

That's a very kind offer Ched, thanks. Malleus Fatuorum 20:15, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Ditto from me, Malleus. PumpkinSky talk 20:16, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Stop now, you'll bring tears to my eyes. :lol: Malleus Fatuorum 20:19, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

You're a damn pain in Wikipedia's butt. Nobody Ent 20:24, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

You do great writing here Mal. It's a shame what happened with you recently. I've heard stories about other similar things but don't know much details. I pages like ANI, and just work what I like. I'm reworking the lead to Yogo sapphire now and hope to get it through FAC. PumpkinSky talk 20:25, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Looks like an interesting article, good luck with that. Malleus Fatuorum 21:08, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Obviously I am NE, but that's Wikipedia's problem, not mine. Malleus Fatuorum 21:04, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

True that. More to the point, perhaps, is that Wikipedia can't seem to see beyond the MF tree to the dysfunction forest of its own operation. Is that a personal attack? Did I just call MF a "tree"? How many connotations of tree, are there? Is there a different connotation in the UK? Nobody Ent 21:10, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Oh leaf it out, you'd have to be barking mad to consider being called a tree a personal attack. Nev1 (talk) 22:01, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Not sure. But he's still quite likely to call you a Berk. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:38, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

@Ched: me too --Senra (talk) 21:23, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

“

... The noble [Admins]

Hath told you [Malleus] was [uncivil]:

If it were so, it was a grievous fault,

And grievously hath [Malleus] answered it ...

Here, under leave of [Admins] and the rest,

(For the [Admins are] honourable [men];

So are they all; all honourable men)

Come I to speak in [Malleus'] [arbitration case] ...

He was my friend, faithful and just to me:

But [an Admin] says he was [uncivil];

And [the Admins are] honourable [men] ….

” — [[[User:Senra|Senra]] (talk · contribs)] Mark Anthony, William Shakespeare, Julius Caesar Act 3, Scene 2

OMG Senra says all admins are men! SEXISM!!!11!!!eleven! Nikkimaria (talk) 02:18, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

lol! Very good though, Senra! Now is the winter of our discontent made glorious summer… :) Nortonius (talk) 02:38, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

[Pesky shudders] ewwww, please, Senra, fix your quote box width! Those line breaks are playing absolute bastard havoc with my OCD! Pesky (talk …stalk!) 21:29, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Phew! Thank you! I actually had to go out of the room to avoid looking at the screen ... whenever I go into hospital for an op, they always know when to kick me out. It's when they get stressed-out by me tidying the ward ... ;P Pesky (talk …stalk!) 21:39, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

@Pesky: I never mean to offend. Wikipedia must be extremely tiring for you; all the things that need tidying up. Sorry to have increased your difficulties. ps re factored as a subst --Senra (talk) 21:47, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

(>**)> hugz! I wasn't offended - it's just that things which don't line up are ... errrgggghhhhh! Actually, Wikipedia really needs vast numbers of people with OCD. And possibly vast numbers of people with OCD need Wikipedia? I've even produced a WikiOCD userbox, with linked essay on the huge benefits associated with it ;P When I'm in good health, obsessively-compulsively doing New Page Patrol is a wonderfully soothing escape from Real life! Pesky (talk …stalk!) 22:19, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Very apposite Senra, as I've just been accused of not showing the appropriate deference to administrators. I'd argue that I do: none. And a word to the wise; don't ever get yourself involved in an ArbCom case, the flurry of stuff that comes at you has to be seen to be believed, far more than one person could be expected to cope with. Malleus Fatuorum 21:44, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Apposite? Why thank you. If you know your Shakespeare, you also know you owe each of us 75 drachmas :) --Senra (talk) 21:57, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Actually I think do have some drachmas left over from a couple of Greek holidays. Where would you like me to send them, bearing in mind that you'll be paying the postage? Malleus Fatuorum 22:14, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

I had expected Mal to have like 5,000 page watchers but its only 435. I have 281. Is there anybody more popular than Malleus? ♦ Dr. Blofeld 21:49, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

SandyG has lots more. Malleus Fatuorum 21:51, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

I used to have like 250, but I'm sure it's down to a dozen or less now! I'm glad you mentioned the deference comment. I was attempting to reply to that when my piece of shit crashed. I walked away in frustration and took the time to take down all my holiday decorations, then I forgot! Comment now posted. Lara 22:09, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

You know .. I do realize how disheartening all these "links" to things like "oh grow up", or "'some' people just don't get it" can be when folks are calling for your head for being honest and telling it like it is. But, if you step back, look at it all objectively, and see how many folks jump to your defense. Write walls of text of how much you've helped them and improved the project with your hard work - surely that has be a good feeling as well. I've always had this odd image of you Mal. I picture an old man in a library yelling at the kids who are running around screaming, and you telling them .. "If you damn kids can't behave in here, go outside and play" ... but then 10 minutes later you're outside with them playing catch, and explaining to them what a library is for, and how to benefit from using one. I hope that doesn't offend, it's not meant to .. just a weird view I've had of you for some reason. — Ched :  ?  22:17, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

It's perhaps not so far from the mark, and maybe something I unconsciously picked up from my mother. She always treated us kids like small adults and made very few concessions just because we were youngsters. So like her I treat everyone the same, whatever age they happen to be, within limits of course. It always makes me laugh though when yet another spotty oik on here claims that I'm immature. I'm damn sure he or she wouldn't be brave enough to say it to my face. Malleus Fatuorum 22:37, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

It is a good attitude to have, in my opinion, and I also found Ched's comment insightful. Geometry guy 23:47, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

It's an attitude that makes it intolerable to be treated like a naughty child as one so often is on Wikipedia; juvenilisation is a term I've seen bandied about. Malleus Fatuorum 00:03, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

The term I have seen you use with regard to blocks is "infantilisation" (or rather the verb, if I remember rightly). I found that very apt, and it informs my view on blocks and the whole punitive-preventative dichotomy. Geometry guy 00:22, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm hoping to be able to make it to Wikimania this year. If only briefly. It's not too far of a drive from where I'm hoping to be living at the time. There are a few people I'd like to meet in person. Both people I respect and people I don't. Lara 22:41, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

It'll be interesting to hear how that goes, but no fighting, right? Malleus Fatuorum 22:44, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Of course not. I'm a lady, Malleus. *cough* Gah, I could barely get that out in text without laughing. I should rephrase. I'm fucking classy, Malleus. Of course there will be no fighting! Lara 22:48, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

You can always tell a classy lady - all her tattoos are spelt right! Richerman (talk) 00:08, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

Reminds me of the old chestnut (is "chestnut" an offensive word anywhere in the English-speaking world?): "How can you spot a posh car on a council estate? All the panels are the same colour." Malleus Fatuorum 00:12, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Indeed, Richerman! Lara 00:15, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

so no tramp stamps? — Ched :  ?  00:24, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

Okay, I do have a tramp stamp, but it's fucking classy. Lara 04:42, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

There's a county in Maine where "chestnut" is a highly offensive slang term for teste. Nobody Ent 02:52, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

That's it. Twice in one week. Farewell, Malleus. Lara 04:42, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

Gives a whole new meaning to 'chestnuts roasting by an open fire' Richerman (talk) 09:52, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

"Goodness, gracious - great balls of fire!"

I'd love to meet some (more) WikiPeople (only, to the best of my knowledge, ever met one "real" one); they'd have to come to me, though, as I'm tied to the home area! But then if they met the real me, they might be scared. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 13:35, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

I've met several. Including Kaldari! I would like to meet more. Several of my closest WikiFriends live in or around DC, and I'm hoping to be just a few hours from there beginning this summer. I may be able to stay with one of them for a few days for Wikimania. Otherwise, it will be a no-go, as I can't afford the expenses. Lara 15:07, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

Wow! Thanks for helping at Yogo sapphire, Malleus. This is cool! PumpkinSky talk 03:03, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

It's too good to fail at FAC for the lack of a comma or two. Malleus Fatuorum 03:07, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

That really means a lot coming from someone as great as you. Your help and input is greatly appreciated. Nikki (see her talk page) thinks it needs a bit more work. PumpkinSky talk 03:10, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

As usual she's right. I'm a little distracted at the moment, for reasons you may understand, so don't expect too much from me. Malleus Fatuorum 03:18, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

Apologies

It now appears that you were indef'd because of the "drama" cause by my (et. al.) edit warring: Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Civility_enforcement/Workshop#Seven_hour_delay. Sorry about that. Nobody Ent 10:49, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

No worries, it hardly matters now anyway. Malleus Fatuorum 17:34, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

I know you just explained this recently ... but ...

Comet Lovejoy acquired the nicknames of "The Great Birthday Comet of 2011", due to its announcement on the 16th anniversary of the SOHO satellite's launch, and "The Great Christmas Comet of 2011", due to it being visible from Earth during the Christmas holiday.

If I remember correctly - "due to" should be changed to "owing to"??? ... modifying the verb "being visible"??? — Ched :  ?  23:59, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm thinking maybe it should be split into 2 sentences as well. ??? — Ched :  ?  00:00, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

Some think it's an outdated and pedantic distinction, but I'm not one of them. The basic rule is that "due to" modifies nouns whereas "owing to" modifies verbs. In this case though the sentence is just horrible, horrible, horrible. What about something like "As Comet Lovejoy was visible from Earth during the Christmas holiday it became known as "The Great Christmas Comet of 2011", and as its appearance was announced on the 16th anniversary of the SOHO satellite's launch it was also nicknamed "The Great Birthday Comet of 2011"? Malleus Fatuorum 00:10, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

much, MUCH, MUCH better .. thank you. I knew it needed fixing, but just was having a mental block. Thank you very much. — Ched :  ?  00:21, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

• Noticed that you took a bit of time to really improve the article too .. thank you very much mall.— Ched :  ?  12:16, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Rise above it all

I should not be watching the case at all, as the shere hypocrisy (I never could spell it) of it all send me and my English quite wild [7]. Seeing now some of the postings, I really think you should turn your back on the case and just copy-edit for a bit - do anything. The rubbish that people are coming out with is quite revolting - I think Bishonen has the best idea, we should all go and hibernate - the mealy mouthed and sanctimonious should be left to write the project alone. Giacomo Returned 19:37, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

Or we could all just stop giving a shit about wiki bureacracy and drop all scandals and get on with writing an encyclopedia and let the mealy mouthed and sanctimonious drive around in their fake plastic police cars fuelled by their own toxic stink ..♦ Dr. Blofeld 21:42, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

Or we could find another way to get rude or offensive words on the front page. Parrot of Doom 22:33, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

[Pesky heaves a sigh and mounts the plastic Police horse] We're not all bad. I try not to be mealy-mouthed in an offensive way, but sometimes, the fact that I'm and English granny results in English-granny-type writing! I hope people can cope with that ... Pesky (talk …stalk!) 15:57, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

ArbCom statement

Just FYI, there's a notice on your comment to the effect that you are about 19 words too long. Granted, that is not a big deal, but if it might be possible to abridge it by twenty words or so it might perhaps not raise questions. Like I said, it isn't a big deal, but little things can, sometimes, mean a lot, particularly when dealing with judicial entities. John Carter (talk) 00:39, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

19 words? HAH. The evidence/stmt limits are silly anyway. What are they trying to do, force people not to bring forth valid evidence? Fuck Arbcom. PumpkinSky talk 00:41, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

At least a few of the sentences could I think clearly be abridged enough to carry the same meaning and still meet the stated limit, though, although I agree it might not be that important. However, yeah, violating ArbCom guidelines even a little bit directly to their faces may give some of them an opinion regarding the statement maker which may not be intended and might perhaps be somewhat prejudicial. John Carter (talk) 00:50, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

These word limits are guidelines and are checked automatically by a bot, not arbitrators.

In my view it is entirely reasonable that Malleus, given the large amount of flak he has to deal with here, be cut some slack both in regard to the length of his evidence, and in the nature of the comments/material he submits as evidence. I have not seen arbitrators objecting to this, and regard criticism of Arbcom on such a basis as unfounded or at least premature. Instead I see many efforts in this case to seek compromise, mutual understanding and deescalation. The route to that, which I heartily encourage, is dialog/dialogue. Geometry guy 01:10, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

I've shortened it anyway. Malleus Fatuorum 01:52, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

It would be more use if there were a limit on how many people, who barely know Malleus, could comment. Giacomo Returned 08:04, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

"more us" -> "worse," right? Nobody Ent 11:03, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

No, he obviously meant to say that it would be more use if there was a limit on the number of non-involved people who were allowed to comment. Richerman (talk) 11:16, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Better out in the open ... in some cases the overreach just makes it obvious how unreasonable some editors are being. Nobody Ent 11:58, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

MF should be aware of this [8], if required. Leaky Caldron 13:13, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

My eyes glaze over when I look at those Arbcom pages. I'd like to post "instead of prattling around here, why don't you just write a bloody article or two?" but have no idea where to post it. Parrot of Doom 14:00, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

• Talk:Workshop or Talk:Evidence depending on whether you're more pissed off with the poor quality analysis and policy formation; or the poor quality evidence and breadth of coverage. OTOH, I've restricted myself from doing anything useful until Malleus is capable of doing useful things again. Fifelfoo (talk) 02:43, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Your statement is very much appreciated PoD, at least by me, but you didn't have to put yourself in the firing line. Malleus Fatuorum 22:44, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Many have taken aim, some have even fired; none have hit their target. It's pretty obvious that a significant proportion of those complaining just want you to shut up, not because they don't like the words you use, but because they know there's truth behind them. Parrot of Doom 02:11, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

You keep dodging the bullets. The thing I don't understand is that I've never called anyone a cunt who wasn't acting like one. What's wrong with that? Malleus Fatuorum 04:08, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

A little sincerity is a dangerous thing, and a great deal of it is absolutely fatal... (Oscar Wilde) The self-deceiving egomaniacs, power-trippers and control freaks that have set themselves up as Wikipedia's ruling class do not like having mirrors thrust in their smug, ugly faces. Keristrasza (talk) 10:50, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Lurker commentary

Jim Morrison: "This is the strangest life I've ever known" Montanabw^(talk) 01:01, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

I've found the whole thing rather instructive regarding how dysfunctional this place is on a daily basis. I can honestly say that someone like Malleus wouldn't drive me away from Wiki, but the swarming behavior I've seen could certainly do that.Intothatdarkness (talk) 15:23, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Then you'll like the little quote boxes I've put at the top of my talk page, especially Leaky Cauldron's comment to Pesky! ;-) It's always been the dross that tempts me to throw up my hands, but I've also noticed that it seems to correlate with the darkest days of the year in the Northern Hemisphere, so maybe there's a reason out there for it. Montanabw^(talk) 18:51, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Rylands Library

I was briefly in Manchester today and son took me into the Rylands Library where there was a small exhibit of old books about......... witches. Those witches are going to be omnipresent this year.J3Mrs (talk) 18:34, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

400th anniversary of the Lancashire witch trials of course. I listened to that Radio 4 programme you drew my attention to last night. I quite enjoyed it, especially the incredulity about the Olimpick sport of shin kicking. Malleus Fatuorum 18:41, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

I listen to the radio more than I watch tv. The exhibit had only half a dozen books but was fascinating, it included a copy of the Malleus Maleficarum.J3Mrs (talk) 18:54, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

My Bible. ;-) I kind of felt with the witches that it would be respectful to tell their story properly, just as I felt about the victims of the Peterloo massacre. Anyway, if I survive my own witch hunt we should do something else together on a colliery or another bit of our forgotten industrial heritage. That Stuart Street Power Station rather intrigued me for some reason. Malleus Fatuorum 19:01, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Industrial heritage? Nah. Consider childhood memories such as Practical Wireless, Meccano, Hornby (Tri-ang) and not forgetting Stuart models! --Senra (talk) 19:39, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

I'd enjoy another collaboration, industrial heritage suits me fine, I haven't actually written anything for ages, just doing pruning and maintenance. There's a library at MoSI in Manchester I'd like to visit so perhaps I'll ask about the power station next time I have to cross the Pennines.J3Mrs (talk) 20:18, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

I hadn't realised you were a citizen of the Republic of Yorkshire. Well, there's always Piece Hall in Halifax, built on the site where the tenterframes used to be. Malleus Fatuorum 20:31, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Lurker: Witchcraft?! Are you joking? Anyone would think we were still living in the Middle Ages !! 109.153.204.190 (talk) 20:52, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Some of us are. Malleus Fatuorum 22:36, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Some of us wish we were - that magic wand could come in sooooo handy at times! And I haz Yorkshire ancestry. Mixed in with the rest. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 16:28, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

500 words

More if needed [9]. Leaky Caldron 22:39, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

I don't want more. Anything else I say will just be more bones for the vultures to pick over. Malleus Fatuorum 22:41, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Birthday Bingo

I wanna play too. Good heavens man .. seriously? 4 GA articles in ONE day? .. geesh — Ched :  ?  17:29, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Must have been a quiet day. But who cares about GAs or even FAS any more; what we need is more students creating more new articles, preferably about high page-view subjects. "Never mind the quality, feel the width". Malleus Fatuorum 18:24, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

So, "feel the width", huh? I think that's what she said. Lara 18:49, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

I wasn't actually quoting her, it was the title of a 1960's British TV sitcom about a textile factory IIRC. Strange there's no article on it, as it was quite popular at the time. Malleus Fatuorum 22:49, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Never Mind the Quality Feel the Width Leaky Caldron 22:54, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Ah, that's a relief, but why does the article title not match the series title? Malleus Fatuorum 22:59, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

The missing comma? Sloppy drafting. Leaky Caldron 23:02, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Someone should move it, but I have no superpowers. Malleus Fatuorum 23:04, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

And editing psych articles, per Colin's analysis of the cost of those student edits to Wikipedia (not to mention the India copyright issues)! At the end of the day, it isn't going to be the children or the students or the vandals or the trolls that end Wikipedia: it's going to be WMF and its growing list of salaried employees needing to justify their salaries-- a trend escalated under Sue Gardner. Their disregard for quality and preference for quantity to justify increasing WMF salaries leads them to enact programs with no regard for their free volunteer staff. That some folks have fallen into the notion that quantity is better than quality speaks to the mindset of everything that is wrong with the parts of this Project that are run by the masses who don't actually build content, and that isn't limited to RFA, ANI, or whatever. Anyway, Birthday Bingo is the best thing Art LaPella ever came up, because it led me to some very interesting discussions and revelations about current issues at FAC ... it takes a long time to plot up something like this. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:32, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Birthday bingo is actually quite an interesting game in a way, and it can be quite revealing. So far as the wasteland of psychology articles is concerned you're right, Colin's analysis makes for some very depressing reading. I'd love to get stuck into some of those, but I don't have access to the necessary databases. I've said it before but it's worth repeating: the two things I know most about professionally are psychology and computing, but apart from a few steam-driven computer articles I've pretty much steered clear of both of them. I wonder if that's just me or a symptom of a more general problem? Malleus Fatuorum 18:54, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Well, I admit, I did waste an hour that I could have used to improve an article - but I was curious. I knew you did a lot, but was surprised to see just how much on any given day. Think I'm just gonna quietly disappear into the woodwork here. Try to fix and improve things - watch some of the stuff the FA and GA folks do (to improve my own skills), and just try to become a better writer in the end. Not that I want to get caught up in any of the political bs that goes on, just watch and learn for my own edification. In a sense I sort of view you in the same way I do John Wayne (I know, the way we Americans make heroes of our film stars is rather bizarre), no bull, not always pretty - but honest and full of integrity - rare qualities indeed. Thanks again not only for your article work, but for helping me become a better person as well. It is appreciated. Best of luck to you Malleus. — Ched :  ?  18:40, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm obviously very flattered to be compared to John Wayne, but as someone else said to me a little while ago probably Steve McQueen would be a better fit. And I don't look at four GAs every day, or even most days, just a one-off probably. Malleus Fatuorum 18:45, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

:) at the Steve McQueen ref - indeed. btw.. you may enjoy this little section too. Seems if we stick to words like "abhorrent", it's ok to degrade another individual - we just have to use real pretty and fancy words .. not those foul and nasty 4-letter things. — Ched :  ?  18:57, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

That's exactly the issue the arbitrators ought to be looking at Ched, not at me, so let's see if they do. As I saw someone say recently, it's forbidden in the UK parliament for one member to accuse another of telling a lie, so the phrase that has to be used instead is "terminological inexactitude". Ridiculous. Malleus Fatuorum 19:07, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

What about hypocrite? Think that would fly? Lara 19:45, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm unable to fli. Hipocrite (talk) 22:32, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

I lolled. Lara 04:10, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Do you think turkeys would vote for Thanksgiving? I don't know about about you, but I'd far rather someone called me a "fucking cunt" in the heat of a discussion than, for instance "abhorrent", or a "toxic personality". I can easily forget the swearing, but not the implied analysis of my personality by someone who doesn't even know me. Malleus Fatuorum 19:50, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Agreed. Impersonal insults are nothing to get upset about. Lara 21:50, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

I agree partially, but would caution against overreacting to these distinctions. More specific unjustified insults may hurt more than general ones, but the nature of the language involved may not make a lot of difference. "You are a fucking cunt" and "You are abhorrent" are pretty similar impersonal insults to me apart from the choice of words, whereas "You are a toxic personality" would offend me more than both of the others. Different editors may have different reactions. As Shaw famously noted: "Do not do unto others as you would that they should do unto you. Their tastes may be different." Geometry guy 01:43, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Agree with that too. And just so I'm sure I'm recalling history correctly, "You are a toxic personality" was stated by Jimbo to Bishonen, right? Lara 03:07, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Right. Don't recall him being blocked for it though. Malleus Fatuorum 03:24, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Funny, that. Lara 12:45, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

So do you win if your birthday is when Malleus was most feisty or least feisty? Nobody Ent 04:03, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

It might be interesting to compare what Kaldari, for instance, did on your birthday as opposed to what I did. Malleus Fatuorum 04:13, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

I could well win on the Birthday Bingo for the "least feisty" award, as mine's Christmas day! Most people are otherwise occupied around that time ;P Pesky (talk …stalk!) 15:59, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

If it's "most feisty" ... Bingo! Mine was the 21st ("dishonest cunt" day.) Nobody Ent 17:32, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Anybody here want to help me improve the Calais article? For such a high importance article it is pretty diabolical.♦ Dr. Blofeld 16:23, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

The Class is Back! (Kind of)

Hi Malleus, The first semester of this year ends in two weeks, and once it is over many students will stop working on their Wikipedia articles. Although a majority of the class will disappear, a few of us enjoyed our experience enough to continue and try to get our articles up to FA. Poor Mr. Butler has to help with drivers ed. and will be unable to assist us in our endeavors. I was just wondering if you wouldn't mind keeping an eye on the Quoll and the Sand tiger shark? Extensive editing will soon begin, and any help would be wonderful. The FA mountain is one that will be incredibly hard to climb, especially if we focus our efforts on two articles. If you wouldn't mind could you do a bit of a peer review on the Quoll for now, so we can get a better idea of what is expected for FA? Thanks so much. --Savetheoceans (talk) 13:47, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm really pleased to hear that at least a few of you will be carrying on with your articles. I'll put both on my watchlist and try and help where I can. As you realise, FA will be quite a bit of work – it is for every article and everybody, including me. It's a shame you won't have Mr Butler's help, but that'll just make your achievement all the more remarkable when you get that little bronze star; working together I'm sure we can do it. I have to warn you though that I'm currently up in front of the beak, so I may be disappearing suddenly in a week or two. Still, que sera, sera. Malleus Fatuorum 21:17, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Hopefully all disagreements can be solved without you having to leave Wikipedia for a while. I wish you the best of luck. Thank you for putting the articles on your watchlist. I hope that we are ready for the immense load of work that the FA process will undoubtedly bring. Thanks again! :) --Savetheoceans (talk) 02:33, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

It wouldn't be for a while, it would be for ever. But let's not dwell on that. Malleus Fatuorum 02:40, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

We were wondering if we should put the quoll up for peer review so we can get a list of things to do. Do you think this is a good idea, or would it look as if we were floundering (which we are a bit) It is just extremely hard to decide where to improve an article that is already at the GA level. Thanks :) Savetheoceans (talk) 13:56, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Had to disagree this time

Mal, sorry, but I have to disagree this time. I guess this day had to come eventually. Best regards though. PumpkinSky talk 23:50, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Why is it so difficult to communicate without the assistance of hyperbole? Who has ever stated anyone associated with FAC is God or a god? Or a dictator? --Moni3 (talk) 23:52, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

I only used God as an example, not dictator. And if I want to use hyperbole, I will. And you referrred to me as "satan" in your edit summary, so stop calling the kettle black.PumpkinSky talk 23:54, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Actually, Moni3, you calling me satan in your edit summary helps prove my point, that some people look at Raul as God-like entity, practically worshiping him and his status. Truth is, there's nothing special about him, nor you, nor me.PumpkinSky talk 00:03, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm glad you got the irony I employed. You seem to have skipped over the ironic part, though. Do me a solid and explain how using God in comparison to the FA director is less hyperbolic than other editors who used dictators. It's my experience that hyperbole is used more often by editors who have less experience to make valid observations. What do you think? --Moni3 (talk) 00:16, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

I didn't say it was less or more hyperbolic. I made my case at the poll. If you disagree that's fine. But don't badger me or say to me "you are satan" over my view. PumpkinSky talk 00:19, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Did you not get the irony of my calling you Satan while you called Raul God? I don't actually believe in Satan. I don't think you are Satan. It certainly got a reaction from you, though. I didn't intend that reaction, but perhaps you can see how Raul might take being called God of FAC. It's pretty ridiculous, no? --Moni3 (talk) 00:24, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

I think it's pretty spot on and I stand by it. Now stop flattering yourself and move on to something more productive. PumpkinSky talk 00:30, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Like offering to assist you on Otis Redding? --Moni3 (talk) 00:32, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

That's a different Pumpkin (User:GreatOrangePumpkin vs. User:PumpkinSky) — Ched :  ?  01:44, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

English

Malleus. Which of the following is/are correct?

1. A Little Thetford villager ...
2. A Little-Thetford villager ...
3. A villager from Little Thetford ...

I think, in cases such as this where there is a possibility of incorrect interpretation—we are not discussing a little villager from Thetford— it is better to rewrite the sentence, as in #3. #1 was the original and #3 was my rewrite. I suspect that #2 could be valid; although in this instance, #2 was rejected because this village name is not normally hyphenated. In my view, recognising that "Little" in this context is a proper noun does not clarify the meaning; consider also "Little Thetford villagers ...", although perhaps that should be "The Little Thetford villagers ...". I need a course on the English language :( --Senra (talk) 16:21, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Main page appearance: The Green Child

This is a note to let the main editors of The Green Child know that the article will be appearing as today's featured article on January 9, 2012. You can view the TFA blurb at Wikipedia:Today's featured article/January 9, 2012. If you prefer that the article appear as TFA on a different date, or not at all, please ask featured article director Raul654 (talk · contribs) or his delegate Dabomb87 (talk · contribs), or start a discussion at Wikipedia talk:Today's featured article/requests. If the previous blurb needs tweaking, you might change it—following the instructions at Wikipedia:Today's featured article/requests/instructions. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. The blurb as it stands now is below:

The Green Child is the only completed novel by the English anarchist poet and critic Herbert Read. Written in 1934 and first published by Heinemann in 1935, the story is based on the 12th-century legend of two green children who mysteriously appeared in the English village of Woolpit, speaking an apparently unknown language. Read described the story in his English Prose Style, published in 1931, as "the norm to which all types of fantasy should conform". Each of the novel's three parts ends with the apparent death of the story's protagonist, President Olivero, dictator of the fictional South American Republic of Roncador. In each case Olivero's death is an allegory for his translation to a "more profound level of existence", reflecting the book's overall theme of a search for the meaning of life. Read's interest in psychoanalytic theory is evident throughout the novel, which is constructed as a "philosophic myth ... in the tradition of Plato". The story contains many autobiographical elements, and the character of Olivero owes much to Read's experiences as an officer in the British Army during the First World War. The novel was positively received, although some commentators have considered it to be "inscrutable", and one has suggested that it has been so differently and vaguely interpreted by those who have given it serious study that it may lack the form and content to justify the praise it has received. (more...)

UcuchaBot (talk) 23:01, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Mal, are condolences or congratulations in order? PumpkinSky talk 23:06, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Condolences. Definitely. I think I still have it watchlisted... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ealdgyth (talk • contribs)

Condolences is what I expected. PumpkinSky talk 23:46, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes, definitely condolences. I'll watchlist. Dana boomer (talk) 15:39, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm ambivalent really. On one hand the article will almost certainly be trashed, but on the other it's a book I love, so if it introduces it to others ... Malleus Fatuorum 00:14, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

It has achieved that positive aspect. I had never heard of the book, although the author's name rings a bell. I will be seeking it, although Bury's library system being what it is means that I may have to haunt the likes of abebooks.I have no intention of trashing! - Sitush (talk) 00:33, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Congrats, Malleus. It's a great article on a great book. Sitush, the book is really worth it, though chances are you have to order it. Drmies (talk) 02:58, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

I'd never heard of the author or the book until today - a crying shame, so well done on educating me. I'll definitely be investing in a copy, Amazon.co.uk has some cheap second-hand copies luckily! GiantSnowman 14:11, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

It was pointed out to me earlier today that during the day the book rose from #1,004,576 in Amazon's (US) bestsellers list to end at #15,962; the figures for Amazon's UK site were #253,945 to #6,447 by the end of the day, which I think is quite extraordinary. Malleus Fatuorum 00:35, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Wow! LadyofShalott 00:37, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Talk:Music of the Sun/GA1

Am I being out of line here? I really hate the "its an interview so no matter who published it, it must be reliable" line. But if you think I should pass the article, I'll bow to you and Niki's expertise. (And quit reviewing any pop culture articles .. ) Ealdgyth - Talk 02:39, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

I wouldn't pass it and I'm unconvinced by sources like Kidzworld, seems a bit like relying on The Children's Encyclopedia to me, a bit of a joke. The reliability of the interview has to be linked to the reliability of the source that's publishing it; I'm also unhappy about using Amazon.com, just seems like a not very well hidden advert. By and large though the sourcing for pop culture articles is pretty marginal. Malleus Fatuorum 03:10, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

For what it's worth, E, I think you should do as you think best and not give a damn what I say about it. After all, isn't the point of GA to have individual and inconsistent reviewers making the decision ;-)? Seriously, though, your choice, and sorry for getting involved in that mess. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:33, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) I'm not a fan of amazon as a source or Kidzworld. --Guerillero | My Talk 03:58, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Just seen that SandyG has resigned as FA delegate, which ought to put a few cats among a few pigeons. Malleus Fatuorum 03:12, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks again

Hi Malleus. I hope RL is going fine for you. Hey the copy-editors you suggested me did an amazing job on "Halo". Thanks a zillion times. Lol. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 06:06, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Glad to hear it. They're good and generous people, something Wikipedia needs a lot more of. Malleus Fatuorum 06:11, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

That's true Malleus and they are very kind. I really miss you. Please don't mind me asking but won't you ever come back? I mean come back to edit articles, etc? Jivesh1205 (Talk) 06:37, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

That's out of my hands. Malleus Fatuorum 06:41, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Hmm, what do you mean? Have you been blocked forever? Jivesh1205 (Talk) 06:46, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Not yet, but I point blank refuse to sign up to the Wikipedia behaviour modification programme, so it's pretty much inevitable. This place reminds me more and more of Clockwork Orange. Malleus Fatuorum 06:51, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

"Badness is of the self, the one, the you or me on our oddy knockies, and that self is made by old Bog or God and is his great pride and radosty. But the not-self cannot have the bad, meaning they of the government and the judges and the schools cannot allow the bad because they cannot allow the self. And is not our modern history, my brothers, the story of brave malenky selves fighting these big machines?" Hey Jivesh, Clockwork Orange is a great example of something not (quite) in any "well-known language". Nikkimaria (talk) 02:24, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Hmm, never heard of that film. Lol. Malleus, all I have to say is that remember if one day you come back, there are many people including me here who will receive you with open arms. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 07:01, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

I haven't left, I'm simply saying that Wikipedia has to change, not me. Malleus Fatuorum 07:09, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

I second that. Sometimes, I feel as if we edit like robots. Lol. Rules, rules and rules. We should learn to ignore them at times. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 07:16, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

UK or US edition? Fifelfoo (talk) 07:13, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Hmm, never heard of that film. No offense intended Jivesh, but I'm still trying to wrap my head around this. Makes me feel old.--SPhilbrick(Talk) 17:33, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Actually,, I am only 18. And I live in a country where we do not watch a lot of films. In fact, I neither speak English nor French or any well-known language. Lol. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 17:40, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

What is your native language Jivesh? BTW, as I was walking around my local Asda supermarket there was a radio announcement that Beyoncé's baby was born today. Amazing! Malleus Fatuorum 17:44, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

The baby girl saw the light the day before yesterday, the date (January 7) Elvis Presley died. I speak Creole language. I live in Mauritius. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 17:50, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Elvis Presley died on August 16. My birthday, different year. He was born January 8. Lara 21:06, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

That's Asda for you then, everything out of date. :lol: Is there a Creole Wikipedia? Malleus Fatuorum 17:55, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

What is Asda? Hmm, no creole wiki. Lol. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 18:01, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Asda is part of Walmart, the world's largest retailer. Malleus Fatuorum 18:05, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Ahh okay. Malleus. Please please please take a quick look at "Halo" and bless me with your thoughts. Lol. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 18:07, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Jivesh, if it was almost anyone else I'd say no, but as it's you ... maybe later, but no promises. Malleus Fatuorum 18:14, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Aww, this is so generous and kind of you. Thanks. May God bless you. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 18:18, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

If someone says name at least one popular person who can speak Creole, I would name Fats Domino and Jivesh :) ♫GoP♫_T^C_N 16:12, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

That's dissapointing Malleus; I had you down more as a discerning Waitrose sort of person. Giacomo Returned 18:10, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Price is king. Besides, my local Asda is open 24 hours a day, so it's just too convenient. Shopping in the middle of the night is so less stressful than during the day. Malleus Fatuorum 18:14, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Malleus, I know this is a worrying time for you, but (man-to-man) there are other things to do in the middle of the night - or even a good book for example. Giacomo Returned 18:25, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

The real problem is the sunlight though, it burns one's skin so. Malleus Fatuorum 18:31, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I can understand that; my late, great aunt has the same problem. She too prefers to sleep through the hours of daylight. Giacomo Returned 18:34, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

There's a Waitrose on Sinderland Road, just outside Altrincham. I shop there occasionally, the food is superb, and not as expensive as you'd think. I reckon if I spent £30 in Sainsbury I'd spend a couple of quid more in Waitrose. Parrot of Doom 19:26, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

If you like Waitrose, you should try Booths at MediaCity. Not huge, but nice stuff. Mr Stephen (talk) 22:01, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Driving the Jeep to Altrincham would add quite a bit to the price. And as for the Jag, well ... Malleus Fatuorum 19:35, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

I know for me, taking the Aston all the way to Whole Foods is just too much expense, so Walmart it usually is! Lara 21:09, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, I hardly ever take the Aston out, but hopefully come the summer the MGB will get another outing. Malleus Fatuorum 21:17, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Civility enforcement/Evidence/Blocks

In the course of the ongoing case, the Arbitration Committee has decided to collect all relevant information regarding your block log and, as such, has created a table of all your blocks, which can be found here. You are welcome to comment, if you wish. Salvio ^{Let's talk about it!} 15:44, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Goodness, isn't that clever; it must have taken someone ages to do that, however, just think how much more profitably they could have been spending their time. I had no idea that we were both stalked by the same little admins; I do have to point out though, that mine is bigger than yours. I won't comment there though because they have trained Salvy to revert me. Giacomo Returned 17:22, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Just like RfA, it's a good way to flush out all your enemies from the long grass. Malleus Fatuorum 17:27, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Tnuc Gnikcuf was an Icelandic warlord of the 12th century. He annexed several of the southern kingdoms including the hundred of Kuntland and was said to have waged a war against the Inuits.

I'm writing an article, wanna help?♦ Dr. Blofeld 17:34, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm not really in a frame of mind to help anyone with anything I'm afraid, too busy pulling daggers out of my back. Another time perhaps. Malleus Fatuorum 17:37, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, I was a bit slow there to recognise "Kuntland". Duh! Malleus Fatuorum 18:18, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

I am assuming you read the guys name, both forwards and backwards? Chaosdruid (talk) 19:03, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm even slower than I thought! Malleus Fatuorum 19:06, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Hehe, the funny thing though is that the name does have something medeival Norse about it LOL. I googled it, there is a poker player who uses that name! ♦ Dr. Blofeld 19:17, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Malleus, you really must be tired to have missed that one! I've always wondered whether King Cnut was possibly an error in transcription ... Pesky (talk …stalk!) 19:25, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Just waking up, it's early in the night for me yet. Malleus Fatuorum 19:28, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

King Cnut LOL.♦ Dr. Blofeld 19:46, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Got to hold my hand up; I missed that one too - even googled it, saw a few poker players and it still did not dawn, Well done Dr. Blofeld - respect! Giacomo Returned 21:21, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

LOL.♦ Dr. Blofeld 22:29, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

My favorite line on this topic is "King Cnut, the FCUK of the eleventh century..." Geometry guy 22:06, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

David Mitchell? 28bytes (talk) 22:08, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I think you are right - one of his soapboxes perhaps? I admire his work, anyway! Geometry guy 22:31, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

He's brilliant. I love those soapboxes. 28bytes (talk) 22:48, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Of course he is brilliant inherited notability on my part, same college etc ;) But despite being in the right place, I don't think it was Mitchell who noticed the acronymic problem with the Cambridge University Netball Team Supporters. - Sitush (talk) 00:15, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

His schooling was evidently a more significant influence: he went to the same independent school as Thom Yorke and Radiohead. Geometry guy 01:27, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

But Thom Yorke ended up at Oxford, I think? Pah! Actually, I thought that one of Radiohead was at my college, but perhaps it was one of Coldplay. Not being much of a listener of music - if indeed "music" is the correct word - such things tend to pass me by. Honestly, if you try to keep track of the doings of these Oxbridge bods, and their interconnections, then you'll rapidly turn yourself into a roll of Sellotape as at midnight on Christmas Eve. I was the token flat-cap, state school Northerner, and Sam treated me as such. I do get a card every year from Guy Black but would much prefer it if he actually influenced govt policy in a way that might help the plebs. As with me, Maurice Cowling called him a "Tory anarchist"; unlike me, he has dropped the anarchist & highlighted the Tory bit. Anyway, that's enough for now - one should not name-drop, as HMQ said to me only recently. <g> - Sitush (talk) 01:55, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Bugging you again...

I'm having a bit of a spat about the usage of the "O.S.B" initials in various monastic biographies (see Adam of Eynsham) - as well as using it in the body of the article such as "the monastic historian, David Knowles, O.S.B"... per our precedent with Muhammed, I've always omitted such initials - they add nothing to the article I don't think, but I've been reverted a couple of times lately and would like someone else's opinion. Adam's article is the last spot but it's happened a couple of times elsewhere. No monk in the 11th or 12th century would have used such initials - and I think they are anachronistic - nor do I think we should use the OSB initials whenever a monk is mentioned. TPS input welcomed! (crossposted from John's talk page ...) Ealdgyth - Talk 18:44, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

You can bug me any time you like Ealdgyth. No OSB, it makes no sense. Is there a discussion anywhere that I can disrupt by calling your adversaries "fucking cunts"? Malleus Fatuorum 18:51, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

LOL.. no, no discussion, I just get rereverted. Let's see what input John has also... and any TPSs. Ealdgyth - Talk 18:55, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

(Pops out of lurking for a moment...) It's not a convention I'm seen much of in my reading, I'll admit, and a quick Google pull doesn't suggest its that popular elsewhere either... Hchc2009 (talk) 19:23, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

I've had a run-in with that editor, he seems to consider me a bigot.Talk:Elizabeth Tyldesley I'm sure MF will remember him.J3Mrs (talk) 19:54, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

You assume too much J3Mrs. I've always been bad at remembering people's names in real life, never mind here, where editors can change their names at will. Malleus Fatuorum 20:03, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Ah, Daniel the Monk, I do remember him now. Malleus Fatuorum 20:06, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Well I remember him, he reported this little bigot to the naughty board, you dropped by on your white charger only to be mistaken for an admin.J3Mrs (talk) 20:09, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

It's all coming back to me now. Malleus Fatuorum 20:11, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

And as a matter of interest, what would you least like to be called, a bigot or a cunt? Not that I've ever heard anyone ever call a woman a cunt. Which is strange given that it's pretty much OK to call anyone a dick here in WikiWorld. Malleus Fatuorum 20:16, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

I have been called a cunt by a child of ten, and I managed to survive that the accompanying bite, but I am most certainly not a bigot.J3Mrs (talk) 20:24, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

I stand corrected then. Were you teaching in the Village of the Damned? Malleus Fatuorum 20:38, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Close, what really upset me was the series of hepatitis injections my GP considered necessary after he'd given me a tetanus booster and had a good laugh. It was just a word in a string of obscenities and believe it or not I really loved that job.J3Mrs (talk) 20:41, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Tetanus boosters tend to be pretty painful in my experience. Which reminds me that a few years ago I had to travel to Pakistan on business. The first time I didn't think too much about it, but before I went the second time I went to my GP for advice. I couldn't believe the number of pills that had to be taken before and after the trip, and there were so many injections that we had to alternate between arms. Malleus Fatuorum 20:54, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

I'd be curious to see how the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography handles the initials. Nev1 (talk) 20:13, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

"Eynsham, Adam of (b. c.1155, d. in or after 1233), abbot of Eynsham and hagiographer, came from a middle-class Oxford family, and became a monk and then in due course first prior, and then abbot, of the Benedictine monastery at Eynsham. His father, Edmund, was a doctor who owned properties in Oxford (probably in the Osney district), but went to the Holy Land and died there c.1187. One of Adam's brothers, William of Oxford, is mentioned as the abbot's brother in Eynsham charters, and a younger brother, also called Edmund, had studied at Oxford and in 1196 experienced a vision of the next world. Adam wrote an account of this, The Vision of the Monk of Eynsham, which survives in several manuscripts and printed editions....." for Adam and "Evesham, Dominic of (d. in or before 1150), Benedictine monk and hagiographer, was perhaps born of English parents, as some slight linguistic evidence suggests. He seems to have become a monk at the Benedictine abbey of Evesham ..." for Dominic of Evesham. For that matter - "Knowles, Michael Clive [name in religion David] (1896–1974), Benedictine monk and historian of monasticism, was born at Eastfield, Studley, in Warwickshire, on 29 September 1896, the only surviving ..." is for David Knowles (scholar) Ealdgyth - Talk 20:15, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

I think those are useful examples and I'd like to follow their practice. Both ODNB entries mention the order they were members of, would this be worth including in our own articles as more than a category? Nev1 (talk) 20:31, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Ditch the OSB. (and let the swapped-around-first-two-letters version complain?) Pesky (talk …stalk!) 20:32, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

(ec) It's kinda anachronistic though - there was only one monastic order basically at the time - it's like calling someone from 700 a "Roman Catholic" - they were just "Catholic" or even better "Christian". The Benedictines really only "organized" into an "order" in response to the formation of other orders. Ealdgyth - Talk 20:34, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

(ec) Hmm that's a fair point. Perhaps the ONDB is specifying which order because readers may not be aware there was only really one at the time. Nev1 (talk) 20:43, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

I would tend to say no OSBs etc till 1550-1600 - I think S.J. is ok for Elizabethan Jesuits for example. I think you could finess Knowles with "Dom David Knowles" and some link on Dom - I think that was his correct title. Johnbod (talk) 01:33, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

John (not you Johnbod, but plain John) brought the subject up at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Christianity - feel free to weigh in. Ealdgyth - Talk 01:38, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

You are the expert

Malleus, tell me if I did go over the wall here. Talk:Azteca horse. Also the talk page of the individual in question. I wouldn't mind finding a way out of this microdrama, though my views are unchanged. Your thoughts? Montanabw^(talk) 05:11, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Hello, Eric Corbett. You have new messages at Montanabw's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

A barnstar for you!

	The Surreal Barnstar
	I'm just amassed at your dedication to the project, even after been lynched again and again by the "civility patrol" and the ArbCom case related to edit. It would be a shame to the project if we lose your services. Secret account 07:10, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for reading over my application essay. Everything submitted and paid for today. I'll let you know when I get a letter, and I'll try not to type in all CAPS if it's an acceptance letter! Lara 04:24, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Lara,

You give us hope.

Good luck!

 Kiefer.Wolfowitz 23:31, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Something I should have put here long ago

		The Beyoncé Knowles WikiProject Thanks You
		I, on behalf on the entire WikiProject, thank you wholeheartedly for copy-editing "Single Ladies (Put a Ring on It)" and "Halo (Beyoncé Knowles song)". Your edits helped the articles more than you can think of. Thank you, thank you, thank you. No matter how many times I write this, it will not be enough. :D May God bless you. You are a wiki-angle (at least to me). Jivesh1205 (Talk) 04:46, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Hey about the sentence, lol... It was not me who did that. My sentence was actually: Police dogs eventually catch the man and attack him savagely. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 04:46, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes, much better. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 05:45, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

You are great. All the praise in the world will be insufficient to compliment your pair of eyes. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 17:56, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

The FAC seems to be going a lot smoother than your last one: two supports already, not bad. Malleus Fatuorum 18:45, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

I hope this continues to run smoothly. Your touch added to an article = Magic. :D Jivesh1205 (Talk) 18:47, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

I'd be cautiously optimistic in your shoes Jivesh. As for myself, well, it's quite clear that Wikipedia doesn't deserve me. ;-) Malleus Fatuorum 18:50, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

I have complete faith in you. Not quite but crystal clear. I think you are nevertheless the person who can bring a change here. You have to stay. You are like the one bringing life here. Lol. Otherwise, the place seems to be like a robotized place. I hope you are getting what I mean. Excuse my horrible English. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 18:55, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

I wish you all the best with the FAC; "wiki-angle" seems an apt description of MF's distinctive contributions :) Geometry guy 00:24, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Thank you very much. Why do I feel that we have talked in the past? Jivesh1205 (Talk) 04:39, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Malleus, I just added this sentence to the lead: "Placed on the I Am.. disc of the record, it shows the one Knowles' is behind the make-up and the celebrity trappings." Is it good? Jivesh1205 (Talk) 04:49, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Doesn't quite work for me, but see what you think of my version. Malleus Fatuorum 05:12, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Need I say it's perfect? :D But Malleus, aren't we supposed to write it this way: "behind-the-scenes"? Jivesh1205 (Talk) 05:15, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Some might say so, but they'd be wrong; the purpose of hyphens is to resolve ambiguity in compound adjectives, and there is none here. BTW, "disc of the record" makes no sense whatsoever. Malleus Fatuorum 05:19, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Okay. I will remove it. Malleus, thanks very much for sparing some time to look at "Halo". I mean, I know what you told me the last time. Nevertheless, you checked it. Malleus, don't you love a single song of Beyonce? Yesterday, a plane was name after her. :D Jivesh1205 (Talk) 05:23, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Jivesh, at the risk of hurting your feelings, hers is a style of singing I simply can't listen to without wanting to kick the cat. (I don't have a cat, so no animals were damaged in the production of this post.) I'm only helping because of your obvious passion for your subject. Malleus Fatuorum 05:30, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Your honesty is what I appreciate the most in you. And also the fact that you are helping me despite not loving the song as in the past I have had copy-editors not taking Beyonce articles because they do not like her music. Lol. Whenever you are sad or you want to laugh, visit my gifs gallery. To tempt you, let me show you this one. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 05:37, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Wife selling anyone...?

I found this while looking for something else (honest!), middle column, about two thirds of the way down, beginning "A correspondent who may be relied on...". I had a quick look but couldn't see any reference to it at Wife selling (English custom), so I thought I'd pass it on, in case it was useful. No worries if not! I'll post this to the article talk page too. Cheers. Nortonius (talk) 18:25, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

When I hit the link, it took me to the start of the book and the find function didn't want to behave itself. But I found the section in question on page 15.---Balloonman ^{Poppa Balloon} 18:32, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Hmm, that's odd, it worked when I previewed the above prior to saving - I can only apologise, but yes, now you mention it, page 15! Cheers. Nortonius (talk) 18:35, 13 January 2012 (UTC) p.s. I've fixed the above link to Google Books so it should now point straight to page 15, hope that helps. p.p.s. Scroll up to page 13 for clear reference to a publication date for this on 11 January 1787. The intervening page 14 is missing from the preview - or, it is for me at any rate!

Ask Michael Henchard if he has a spare wife or two to sell?♦ Dr. Blofeld 19:58, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

But who's your favourite Joshua Jopp, putting together a glorious Wikipedia skimmington ride, that well known "public procession designed to mock and humiliate people"? Martinevans123 (talk) 23:30, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Prepare yourself

Just wanted to let you know that this is a thing now. --Moni3 (talk) 22:15, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

"Only by seeing themselves for what they are—older and wiser, superior to their offspring—can parents begin to do the job right." Amen to that. Now, about all these kiddie admins ... Malleus Fatuorum 22:18, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

"Statistics is not science"

I know what you mean but be careful lest a thunderbolt vaporize you! ;) 23:23, 13 January 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kiefer.Wolfowitz (talk • contribs)

Bring it on. I roar at the gods. Malleus Fatuorum

A request

There is an article I saw and edited a bit that needs improving. I wish and hope, if your time allows, that you would be willing to demonstrate some improvements to it. I hope you receive this request well, and apologize if for any reason you do not. Respectfully - My76Strat (talk) 05:46, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Are you emulating Dr. Manhattan in your sense of timing?

Remember that we experience directly the present, and must rely on memory for our access to the past. Administrative precogs apparently have prescience, which allows them to predict the future behavior of individuals; human psychologists claiming such competence have been declared unethical by Paul Meehl and Robyn Dawes.

 Kiefer.Wolfowitz 16:11, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

I am astonished that after all your comments at the current ArcCom case you would come here and ask me for anything. Malleus Fatuorum 18:43, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

I wonder if he's talking about this article??? — Ched :  ?  19:23, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

I don't care what article he's talking about, the answer is still the same. Malleus Fatuorum 19:51, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

I guess it just struck me as ... I don't know; ironic?

• anyway, I have a question. Have you ever seen an article on an idiom taken to a GA quality level? The one that comes to mind for me was the Damn with faint praise article. I'd like to see more there, but I'm not sure there would be enough sources to really expand it very much. I'd be interested in your viewpoint if you'd care to say. — Ched :  ?  20:10, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

• The closest I'm aware of is the metaphor of the boiling frog. As to whether or not an article like damn with faint praise could become a GA I think it would be all down to the sources available. But there's no reason in principle why it couldn't. It might even be interesting to develop a generic structure for such articles. Malleus Fatuorum 20:53, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Thought provoking on multiple levels. Thank you. — Ched :  ?  21:10, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

No worries is also a GA. Ucucha (talk) 21:32, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

That's a nice little article. It might be interesting to try and get an idiom article up to GA. If I'm still around in a couple of weeks that is. Malleus Fatuorum 21:46, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Actually I've just noticed that Have a nice day is also a GA. Malleus Fatuorum 21:50, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Let us praise famous men

Just be wary if anyone offers you anything to drink. We need a gadfly around this place from time to time. Or, to quote Seneca from the Demetrius the Cynic article

• "[Malleus], who seems to have been placed by nature in our times that he might prove that we could neither corrupt him nor be corrected by him; a man of consummate wisdom, though he himself disclaimed it, constant to the principles which he professed, of an eloquence worthy to deal with the mightiest subjects, scorning mere prettinesses and verbal niceties, but expressing with infinite spirit, the ideas which inspired it. I doubt not that he was endowed by divine providence with so pure a life and such power of speech in order that our age might neither be without a model nor a reproach." — Ched :  ?  22:12, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

  That's a lovely quotation, but you do me too much credit. Malleus Fatuorum 22:20, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

While we are men, we cannot help, to a great extent, being fans of Malleus, for the great Master does but analyze the thoughts, feelings, views, and opinions of human kind. He has told us the meaning of our own words and ideas, before the RfA Deform was born. In many subject-matters, to think correctly, is to think like Malleus; and we are his disciples whether we will or no, though we may not know it."

— after Cardinal John Henry Newman's Idea of the University

 Kiefer.Wolfowitz 23:29, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

• That made me laugh. Kiefer, you are way too educated and intelligent for own good. A bit like me really I suppose. Malleus Fatuorum 23:39, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Canst thou make him afraid as a grasshopper? the glory of his nostrils is terrible.
He paweth in the valley, and rejoiceth in his strength: he goeth on to meet the armed men.
He mocketh at fear, and is not affrighted; neither turneth he back from the sword.
The quiver rattleth against him, the glittering spear and the shield.
He swalloweth the ground with fierceness and rage: neither believeth he that it is the sound of the trumpet.
He saith among the trumpets, Ha, ha; and he smelleth the battle afar off, the thunder of the captains, and the shouting. King James Bible, Job 39 Pesky (talk …stalk!) 06:15, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy My brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay My vengeance upon you."

— Ezekiel 25:17

• The Gate of Paradise versus text search for "Turn your other cheek". Fifelfoo (talk) 01:20, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

The title of this subsection reminds me of the Pantheon in Paris and its AUX GRANDS HOMMES LA PATRIE RECONNAISSANTE inscription ("For/To the great men, the grateful fatherland"). Some outdated ideas going on there, perhaps... Geometry guy 01:48, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Your disillusionment is spreading

You've asked me several times why I edit here. Unfortunately my reasons, whatever they were, are being overtaken by reasons why I don't feel like it, since I realised I'm not interested in anything vital I've hardly written anything. I really don't care for the atmosphere where political correctness rules. In no particular order, I don't subscribe to feminism, re-writing history with a 21st century perspective or in 19th century language, pov pushing, religious zealotry, trivia-mongery, petty vandalism, busybodying, trolling, attention-seeking, nit-picking, hypocrisy and demands for professionalism, whatever that is. And then I started reading the arbcom stuff and realised there are editors who visit your page that I'd cross the road to avoid. I expect 99.9% users (unscientific estimate) have no idea what goes on behind the scenes and that it's driven not only by the movers and shakers jockeying for position, but by the easily upset encouraged by rewards for being upset. When I'm annoyed the very last thing I'd need is somebody on the internet telling me to "calm down dear" (how I loathe that ad) especially when I'm not wrong and especially when I am old enough to be their grandmother. And where you're concerned you know a lot of it is jealousy, they'd kill for a female fan club. Apart from that life's ok. Take careJ3Mrs (talk) 22:57, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

I think a lot us are beginning to wonder whether the game's really worth the candle. Wikipedia is in a death-spiral, but I'm not sure the powers that be either recognise that or know what to do about it. As for the female fan club, well, given my reputation for blunt speaking I have to say it's rather astonished me. Having said that, my wife is no slouch when it comes to telling me what she really thinks about something. :-) It makes me wonder as well whether this supposed "13% female editors" is accurate, as my experience is that I come across way more female editors than that at FA/GA. Malleus Fatuorum 23:08, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

(ec) Female fan club? (outrage) I've never ever been part of a "fan club".. I'm offended! (well, not really, but ... it sounded like something I should do or be, right?). I am off to a nice fancy dinner with my spouse to celebrate my birthday. It's a whopping 19 degrees F here (-7 to you Brits). With a wind chill of 6 (-14). And snowing. But nothing will deprive me of my birthday steak and wine! So enjoy! Ealdgyth - Talk 23:10, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

More power to your wife, behind every good man is an even better woman, that's what I tell my husband and one day he'll believe me.J3Mrs (talk) 23:26, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Ealdgyth, my only experience of American steaks is a gigantic slab of meat that no European could reasonably be expected to eat. On our skiing trip to California we were repeatedly warned that the portions might be more that we bargained for, and they were invariably right. Anyway, enjoy your meal ... how old are you now? :lol: Actually it's my birthday next week, and my wife's promised to take me out for a meal as well, probably a Chinese, as I like to show off my dexterity with chop sticks. Malleus Fatuorum 00:57, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

In another attempt to spike this idea that I'm a misogynist, my wife and I were at university together. She decided to go on to do a PhD whereas I went on to try and earn some money. I knew her supervisor from university, and we met up occasionally at parties and other social gatherings. One time he asked me how I'd feel if my wife had a PhD but I didn't. I was absolutely gobsmacked. I'll spare your blushes by "bowlderising" my reply: "I'd be absolutely delighted old boy". Malleus Fatuorum 23:49, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Feminism is just the idea that women and men should be treated equally. The push to acknowledge there are fewer women here than men and the women here should be treated differently, or Wikipedia should be recruiting someone over someone else is not feminism. I don't quite know what it is, but I'm here and I've been here for more than 5 years doing whatever it is I do. I never thought of myself as different than other editors, deserving of something other, or needing to be spoken to in a certain way. Just as plainly as possible will do fine. --Moni3 (talk) 23:57, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

I don't blush these days, My husband has the degrees, I have none, but I have more ............je ne sais quoi.J3Mrs (talk) 00:01, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure it's that's simple Moni. Obviously women and men should be given equal opportunities in every area of life, and equal pay, but there are definitely things I would never say to a woman that I would say to a man. I would never, for instance, call a woman a cunt. Even if she was. Malleus Fatuorum 00:42, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

@Moni, my reference to feminism didn't refer to wikipedia's treatment more about an article I'd like to write but won't because I hate the women's history label.J3Mrs (talk) 00:06, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Ok. I'm not sure what all that means--I'm sure you would have to spend a half hour or so explaining its significance, but only if you want me to get it. If you don't and would rather go drinking, I'd enjoy that more. I'm about to do something very much like it. --Moni3 (talk) 00:11, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

I've had a glass or two of red wine already and a piece of chocolate, enjoy your drink :-)J3Mrs (talk) 00:15, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

I've opened a bottle of red plonk as well, so cheers! Malleus Fatuorum 00:46, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

"I like to show off with chop sticks" - you play the joanna also? Is there no end to your talents? FWIW, I am not convinced about the 13% figure either but, hey, I just keep plodding along and really have no great interest in whether an editor is male, female or undecided. We all do what we do, and good luck to us. I am way, way behind most of your regular contributors here in terms of experience, ability and, well, probably anything else that is logically a positive and that you would care to name. But I plough a fairly lonely furrow from a Western point of view and because of that probably get away with things that others might not. I realise that it may not be your scene but I attended the Manchester wikimeet in December (first time) & those at my end of the group were singing your praises and hoping that you might one day show your face there. I was wamblecropt getting off the tram but a selection of rather nice beers sorted that one out. - Sitush (talk) 01:10, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

I hadn't realised there was beer involved at these wikimeets, that puts an entirely different perspective on it. Malleus Fatuorum 01:15, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

My own unscientific survey informs me that half of the editors I encounter at FA/GA are female, so what are we to conclude from that? And my experience with the Wikipedia:WikiProject AP Biology 2011 tells me that most of the successful students were female. Malleus Fatuorum 01:23, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Well, there was in December and I have no reason to believe that was unusual. Mind you, after a pint of Throatwaggler, another of Bath Ales' Festivity, something by Goose Eye Brewery and a double-chocolate stout to finish, well, I can vaguely recall that I did actually get some useful input from others who were there and I had an opportunity to vent in the classic "what happens on tour, stays on tour" manner. It may have been Throatwobbler, btw. Hic. And, bearing in mind my impecunious state, that lot cost under a tenner and so was very little more than 4 pints of Joseph Holt. Which is an article in need of attention when I can find the time. - Sitush (talk) 01:26, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Joseph Holt's Diamond lager is very good value for money. Malleus Fatuorum 01:29, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

[ec] Sitush, you're too old for drinking feasts. Don't make me tell your brother. Re: the previous point, when Mrs. Drmies finishes her Master's she'll make almost as much as I do with my Ph.D., and she's teaching seventh grade. I wish she could get a Ph.D., and another one, and make me a ton of money. She can be twenty times as educated as me, but she still can't make shrimp and grits like I can, or put our youngest to sleep. Then again, I can't carry a child through the zoo as long as she can--and I certainly can't carry one to full term. Drmies (talk) 01:34, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Never too old, Prof - I played rugby, remember! Malleus, yes, indeed, I believe that Diamond is the beer of choice for Mancunian cat-piss lovers :) I am on their Two Hoots at the moment - a Golden Ale, 12 bottles at a time, on a tab behind the bar, for £15. You can do the arithmetic. - Sitush (talk) 01:39, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

I think we should start a movement to have Joseph Holt sanctified. Malleus Fatuorum 01:44, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

It was a pretty good meetup in Manchester - and I was still stable enough at the end of it to find my train back to Liverpool. And yes, Malleus, it would be great if you came along one time - there'd be a few people happy to shove beer in front of you! -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 01:46, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Or perhaps glass in my face. Malleus Fatuorum 01:50, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Nah, we don't let people like that come -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 01:53, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Let me know when the next one is, and I'll definitely think about it. Malleus Fatuorum 01:56, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Feb 25 - http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetup/Manchester_11 -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 01:57, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Ooh, ooh. I didn't realise that list had started already. + 1. And I will buy MF a beer. - Sitush (talk) 02:03, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

OK, I'm up for that absent unforeseen circumstances between then and now. Malleus Fatuorum 02:10, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Excellent -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 02:12, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

(edit conflict) It would be nice to meet other local editors such as PoD, Nev1, and J3Mrs as well. Part of the problem here is that administrators treat us as children, with silly blocks aka "time in the naughty corner". I am no child. Malleus Fatuorum 02:25, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

And what's wrong with a gigantic slab of meat for dinner? ;-) Edit wiki for your own reasons, not to please or impress anyone else. The wiki politics will do in anyone. We all can list pages of reasons of problems with wiki. I'm surprised so many stay around as it is. PumpkinSky talk 02:17, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

When I need your advice I'll ask for it. In the meantime don't hold your breath. Malleus Fatuorum 02:25, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

But I am holding my breath.PumpkinSky talk 02:32, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Re: 02:10 - I'll start saving up <g> - Sitush (talk) 02:30, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Forgive me for the wrong link above - Joseph_Holt's_Brewery is the article. In my mind, and as they say on the terraces, "there;s only only one Joseph Holt". But there should be a Joseph Holt (hic) as I am pretty sure that the info is out there. There was also a son - Edward? - who had some significant role in the Thirlmere - Manchester water doings. - Sitush (talk) 02:44, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm getting a bit worried about this now. Will I have to get a haircut, buy some new trendy clothes? Malleus Fatuorum 02:47, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

I didn't, and I very much doubt that what I wore was trendy. - Sitush (talk) 03:04, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

MF I am confused that you and others feel a need to defend that you are not a misogynist. I simply can not find prose where it was alleged that you are. I have twice inquired to this regard and not been directed to or shown the supporting diff. My larger concern is that I have used the term myself, but did not and do not intend that it should label you or be ascribed to you in any fashion. I'd sooner vacate my assertion, than to be associated as one who believes that you are. I have 1 or 2 diffs that qualify as evidence that you are not, which are in reserve for use to refute such a direct allegation if ever I find the darn thing. I don't mean to astound you in anyway and understand your earlier statement. (I think) I will immediately respect your directions if you should dispatch me from this page. In the absence of such counsel, while I don't exactly feel welcome, I do feel it is an open option for communicating. Thank you for vesting your time to these regards. My76Strat (talk) 03:34, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Then try reading all of the "evidence". If I was in any way a misogynist I doubt that there would be so many female editors in my corner. Malleus Fatuorum 03:45, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

That's fine. I agree that you are not a misogynist. When I find the assertion that you are, I will disagree there. Again, thank you. My76Strat (talk) 03:56, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

I don't understand where this crap comes from. Why was I accused of being a misogynist? All the evidence appears to show the opposite. Malleus Fatuorum 04:10, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm darned (ahem) sure that far more than 13% of editors are female. On the net, loads of females refuse to declare their gender, or actively hide it by stating they are male, or passively hid it by portraying a pseudo-male persona. And we have a circularly self-perpetuating myth (as opposed to a triangularly sp one, f'rinstance. Sorry ... it's the morphine ... ;P) Editors are programmed to believe that most other editors are young and male; in response, that's what they assume about other editors. Even about the old crones among us! I have had people on IRC absolutely gobsmacked to discover I have school aged grandchildren - apparently I "come across" as a young male! Heh! Just take a look around WP:EQUINE - squillions of females lurking in there, they just don't necessarily say so. And, of course, there's the point that females who prefer not to let the world know their gender are somewhat less likely to fill in surveys where that question is asked; simple sampling error where the respondents self-sample is a bit of an obvious possibility. And females are often less able to get to meetups than young males are ... there are so many perfectly obvious reasons for an apparent gender-skewing of the editor population.

I'd like a WikNic in the New Forest. It's the only place I'd be able to go to, as I'm pretty much tied to the immediate area (family stuff). I know all the coolest parts of the Forest; we have some interesting bogs down here, and the temptation to take a selected bunch of people for a walk in an area where I know the good route ... and then leave them there ... [hur, hur, hur] We also have this. Worth coming to the Forest just for that! Pesky (talk …stalk!) 06:30, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

I have slowly come to the conclusion that most editors are old enough to be my parent or grandparent --Guerillero | My Talk 06:54, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

So what, no problem, or is it? Look at the title page of a 1715 book, "Demonstrating that the Female Gender has no less Skill for Studying / than the Male" (pictured). The same should go for the younger and the older, right? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:28, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

• The trumped up misogyny charge is just being levelled to accentuate Malleus' perceived crimes - it's just one more thing to hurl and paint Malleus as blacker than black. One only has to look at many of those commenting; they are professional Arbcase commentators. I get angry just looking at their pompous ejaculations on every comment - as though they seriously imagine that the Arbs are interested in their limited views. There's one person commenting almost continually there, who I suspect is probably a man-hater (whatever that is called), but do we go around blindly levelling these charges? No. The Arbs knew full well that this case would be nothing more than a public pillorying and they have encouraged it - or is it that they are so ignorant of what is going on here, they need all these half-baked opinions? It's time to call a halt to this kangaroo court and for the Arbs t either speak up or dismiss the whole daft case. I did once think that a few of them had half a brain, now I am convinced that their is nothing to choose between the lot of them - This is like one of those dreadful skilfully directed people's courts set up in some tin-pot banana dictatorship. I am becoming increasingly repulsed by wikipedia and many of its parasitical, ignorant editors. I think the time to parachute out, is rapidly approaching and leave them in a mire together run by the biased and simple. Giacomo Returned 12:21, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Now this, Giacomo, "It's time to call a halt to this kangaroo court and for the Arbs t either speak up or dismiss the whole daft case" I totally agree with.PumpkinSky talk 12:55, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

The misogyny thing is a straw man, pure and simple. The only thing the Arbs need to do is dictate an amnesty for all in the current case, and give me us that mandate to recruit my a properly-balanced team to re-write the civility policy and the terms of its enforcement. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 14:58, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

@Guerrillero – isn't it odd how all the grandparents or old-enough-to-be-grandparents start to come crawling out from under their disguises once one or two of them do?! ;P Pesky (talk …stalk!) 15:51, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Hello: Long Time, no Interaction

From the freezing wastes of Beijing, I greet you! I just saw, on my very rare returns to briefly look at this place, a notice about an ArbCom action. Since I resigned my admin status in disgust over the treatment of you a few years ago, I'm sad to see it is still on-going and even intensifying. Do I need to point to my "farewell" comment in the talk section of the evidence? I'm not sure. If you want, send me email from within wikipedia about all this. Best wishes.  DDStretch  (talk) 17:47, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Nice to hear from you again, I hope things are going well for you and your family over there. No point in you getting involved in the case, que sera, sera. Malleus Fatuorum 21:44, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Clear and present danger

Please avoid the phrase clear and present danger, penned by that over-rated apologist for the state's crushing of individuals---the Constitution and the First Ammendment be damned---Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr..

It stems from the Schenck v. United States case, where a socialist pamphlet paraphrased the Declaration of Independence on the natural rights of citizens (not to be forced to kill and be killed as conscripts). Despite the First Amendment, the socialists were given long jail terms, disgusting libertarians like H. L. Mencken.

Holmes was the author of the infamous Buck v. Bell decision allowing the state to sterilize citizens. Last week, South or North Carolina became the first state to offer compensations to those sterilized, only 50 thousand USD.

Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr., should be the icon of the contemporary auto-decapitation of Wikipedia.  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 23:40, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Let me know...

... when you are online. I need your help. User:Efe here thinks that "dips in and out" (second paragraph here is informal. Can you suggest a replacement. I explained to him that the term is not informal as my dictionary does not state so in brackets but as you see on the FAC, things are deteriorating. So please tell me if a replacement exists and if no, please help me explain it to him. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 11:23, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

(tps) On reading the phrase, it seems to me what it's describing is her modulation of vibrato. "Dips in and out" gives the impression (to me) that she drops a tone or semi-tone into a note that is trilled and then, as the vibrato diminishes, she drops a further tone/semi-tone. Maybe "passes into and out of" might be better- don't know; you are restricted to what the RS says, so I suppose you can "pass the buck" to the RS. Ning-ning (talk) 11:47, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Thank you very much for replying. In short, you mean I can use "passes into and out of"? The RS says "Beyonce dips in and out of vibrato yelps and trills." Jivesh1205 (Talk) 15:01, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Modulates through? Pesky (talk …stalk!) 15:53, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Hmm, I don't understand. Lol. Do you mean I can replace it with "modulates thorough"? Jivesh1205 (Talk) 16:11, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Beyonce ornaments her singing with vibrato yelps and trills? (Starting to sound like Monday morning at the vet's…) Ning-ning (talk) 17:54, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. Lol, the second part made laugh though I did not really understand what you meant. Thanks for the help. Much appreciated. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 17:57, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

(od) Vet's - an abbreviation for vetinary surgeon (kind of a doctor for pet animals) Ning-ning (talk) 19:04, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Ahh okay. Actually I am not a native speaker of English. :D Jivesh1205 (Talk) 19:07, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Beyonce modulates through vibrato yelps and trills. (And she it still sounds like Monday morning at the vet's ...) Pesky (talk …stalk!) 18:00, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Not sure about modulates- to me it implies a change of key- if she modulates her yelping she'll sound like a puppy in a fast sports car (Doppler effect) Ning-ning (talk) 18:29, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

ArbCom case: Evidence and workshop's analysis section

Hi Team!

I provide evidence and initiated some discussion at the workshop's analysis section, relevant to concerns already raised: Partisanship/double-standards, appearance of hounding, fatuous accusations that are shown to be falsehoods but never withdrawn, smearing of editors (while pursuing other goals), etc.

Spending two days documenting such problems has been labeled "harassment" and threatened with huffing and puffing. Spending two-three months writing an RfC against me, that must have been another expression of the usual "with regrets" tough (Wiki)love.

My other obligations shall keep me busy for the next days.

Good Night, and Good Luck,  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 18:09, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Pearls of wisdom

Pearls before swine dear boy [10]. Tres witty, but I fear probably wasted here, rather like you. Catherine Rollbacker de Burgh (Lady) (talk) 19:22, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

We're both wasted here. Malleus Fatuorum 19:45, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

That's so true, it would serve them jolly well right if we sailed off into the sunset together on my beautiful yacht. However duty before pleasure and duty demands that we stay, and stay and stay and every day people will know that we are staying. Catherine Rollbacker de Burgh (Lady) (talk) 20:11, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

I think that's a good point. Malleus Fatuorum 20:34, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Oh look the jury's out Well it's a bank holiday tomorrow, but we may well have a decision by Christmas. Giacomo Returned 22:23, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Which year? Malleus Fatuorum 22:28, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

The two of you are always welcome to come and stay in my luxury villa on the Island of Unwelcome Editors. It's an exclusive club, albeit getting less and less exclusive by the day.173.164.243.154 (talk) 01:45, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

You should feel honored

At the top of my page there is a banner reading that the English Wikipedia will be blacked out globally to protest SOPA and PIPA... my best guess is that SOPA and PIPA have something to do with your ArbCOM case and the community is going into mourning over any impending loss... ;-)---Balloonman ^{Poppa Balloon} 20:08, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Well I am totally in favour of teaching the Yanks a lesson, but I am sick of that dreadful black thing hovering over all our edits, can no one shoot it down? Catherine Rollbacker de Burgh (Lady) (talk) 20:14, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

"Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn": about SOPA, tomorrow's childish protest, or the outcome of the ArbCom case. The latter in particular will be a reflection on Wikipedia, not on me. Malleus Fatuorum 20:21, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

The editor I feel sorry for is the poor schmuck who's going to have his article as TFA for two consecutive days as a result of the protest. That's a cruel and inhumane punishment. Malleus Fatuorum 20:25, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

He rarely edits during the week so he prob won't be too bothered. And I'm sure people will help with the damage if it gets too trashed. Truthkeeper (talk) 20:31, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

It's all pure spite. Whatever the outcome of this silly trial you can only emerge shining and covered in glory. It was such a ridiculous thing to take the case on; if they wanted rid, a stiletto in the back would have been far more sensible, as they do elsewhere. My dear nephew wanted to be an Arb - once. He would have been so much more clever and so would you. Wikipedia has had it chances and now in a few hours an great darkness is to descend upon us - and why? Supossedly for the freedom of speech. Catherine Rollbacker de Burgh (Lady) (talk) 20:37, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Let's hope SOPA eventually prevails. We can then abandon the current US Wikipedia, as it mires in its own muck, port the current articles over to a proper English Wikipedia with servers outside the US. We can set up a sane administrative structure which enables content editors instead of attacking them, and re-enrol Malleus as editor summa cum laude. It would be a splendid outcome. --Epipelagic (talk) 21:27, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

You're allowed to fork Wikipedia whenever you like. Reaper Eternal (talk) 21:28, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

But it's not easy to get the media from commons as to my knowledge there is no data dumps for it. Regards, SunCreator ^(talk) 23:28, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Ah but Epipelagic, as the US goes, we have this tendency to inspire others. Best remember which nations were part of Oceania. Montanabw^(talk) 00:07, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

I like the idea of a UK Wikipedia, but the truth is it'd be dominated by this lot. Parrot of Doom 00:58, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

I thought those were Europeans, not Brits.VolunteerMarek 02:42, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

I would suggest that we force en-US to split, and retain en.wikipedia for en-001 Fifelfoo (talk) 01:17, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

That's a good video, woteva. Malleus Fatuorum 02:15, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

Squillions of words on your arbcom case and not a single humorous backcronym. Very disappointing. In my experience there are plenty of admins who are members of the Council for Unity, Niceness and Transparency. --Surturz (talk) 03:32, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

"You might very well think that; I couldn't possibly comment". Malleus Fatuorum 03:38, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

Stay away from roof tops and journalists; but, most importantly, Parliament. Fifelfoo (talk) 03:43, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

WP:Civility and User Neutrality Taskforce — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.164.243.154 (talk) 03:49, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

Maniac Mansion

Malleus, if you're in the mood, could you re-visit WP:Featured article candidates/Maniac Mansion/archive1? You opposed on prose a few weeks ago, but it looks like some work has been done to address that. Ucucha (talk) 00:50, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Only fair I suppose. Malleus Fatuorum 00:54, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

I've revisited and made a few further comments at the FAC. Basically I don't think it's improved much, so my oppose still stands. Malleus Fatuorum 01:29, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. Ucucha (talk) 01:36, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

FYI- I made some edits per your comments, but I had some follow up questions. Your input would be appreciated. Thanks. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 15:42, 19 January 2012 (UTC))

Fing c ?

Has this been incorporated to the Arb Case? I'm unsure of the history, but seems to be relevant. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:04, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Risker asked for only 2011 examples of unaddressed incivility. Karanacs (talk) 16:23, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

I know-- I came across this while searching for my use of "dork" (after being falsely accused for my "dumber than an average bear" edit summaries), and my query is how this (first?) use of the f'ing c relates to the overall case and persecution of Malleus? I don't know the history ... What still hasn't been done is to present all of the times we all saw the double standard employed against Malleus, and I wouldn't know where to find those-- I suppose only Malleus would, but it can be hard to remember where to find evidence when one has been under fire for so long. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:26, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Apropos of nothing in particular, but vaguely on point - my wife's birthday card from her brother this weekend had the charming local (north Wales) Welsh phrase "Penblwydd hapus cont" printed in colourful letters. "Penblwydd hapus" is "happy birthday" and I'll let you guess "cont" yourself. Get your own here (if so inclined). (Not sure he, or my wife, would win any prizes for sending this card to their chapel-going mother on Mothering Sunday: "Mam ora yn y byd" is "best mum in the world", and "ffwcin" is guessable surely once you know that "w" is a vowel in Welsh.) Thought this might amuse briefly. KBO, etc, Malleus, and a belated happy new year. Bencherlite^Talk 17:00, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

chwarddo, innit bro. You sure know how to compliment a gal up in the Gogledd, boyo. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:50, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Well, There We Are Then. ;) Parrot of Doom 17:35, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

So did the Welsh steal English profanities or vice-versa? Reaper Eternal (talk) 17:43, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Grrr, did someone mention the s word?!! Martinevans123 (talk)

I've used the s word several times... it wasn't until I pointed out that it was highly offensive in England that anybody said anything.---Balloonman ^{Poppa Balloon} 20:05, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

I meant that s word that's also a T word. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:39, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

15 January 2011

I've mentioned that it is past the 15th to both clerks and the drafting arbitrator. Fifelfoo (talk) 04:08, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. Curious that none of them seemed to notice. Or care. Malleus Fatuorum 04:11, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Competence beyond competence, civility beyond civility, done hard and seen to be done hard. Fifelfoo (talk) 04:46, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

I know the old saw, "Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence", but in this case I'm finding it hard to see it. All I see is administrators desperately trying to defend their own. Not made any more credible by the fact that all the arbitrators are themselves administrators. If there was ever a recipe for corruption then that's it. Malleus Fatuorum 04:54, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

The arbs and admins are too busy with their student union posturing. Don't expect anything to happen for at least a week. 173.164.243.154 (talk) 05:28, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

They do seem more unprofessional and immature than they were in my active days - and that's saying a lot!  DDStretch  (talk) 12:16, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

(>**)> mega hugz (or, if preferred (o)(o) Suffocation-by-cleavage). I am a sinner! Mea culpa! I posted my evidence after the official close, but it is neither for nor against you, just something I observed while letting my OCD-dragon off his leash in analysis.

@DDStretch ... onoes! You've got to the stage where all policemen look as though they're still in school! ;P Pesky (talk …stalk!) 17:36, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Pesky: Way past that! To me, some of them look like a twinkle in their parents' milkman's eye!  DDStretch  (talk) 08:41, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Request

Hi Malleus. I am so happy to be back. I could have dies it this blackout lasted for a week. Can you please have a look at the first two comments by Sandy here. One of them concern the phrase I asked you for help a week ago. It seems perfect to me but Sandy wrote that something is missing. Please have a look whenever you have time. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 05:21, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Wow. That was pretty quick. Speed of light. :D Thanks. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 05:36, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

(Again) Greetings Malleus. Everything is going fine at the FAC. And thanks for everything you have done. Today, Sandy left a few comments which you and I have addressed and she is satisfied with the corrections we made. Nevertheless, she is asking for another look at the article because she thinks the prose is still not satisfactory at places. I read the article again and did my level best (please see history of "Halo"). I request you to please take a final glance at the article and see if there is anything you think could be better. Please. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 15:49, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry, events have overtaken us, or at least they've overtaken me. Malleus Fatuorum 04:16, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

It does not matter. I understand. Malleus, the prose is actually stable since the copy-edits were done. :D But I don't understand completely what is happening right now. Anyway my friend, take care. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 04:56, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Prosperity Theology at FAC

Hi Malleus, I hope that you are doing well. Another editor and I have recently nominated Prosperity theology at featured article candidates. It's the first time I've brought an article there. I followed the page for a while to see what I could expect, and I was impressed with the quality of your reviews. I know that you have very limited time these days, but I'd love if you could take a look at the article. I think the prose quality is in good shape, but you have a better eye for that than I do. You might find the article interesting, it's one of those unconventional American religious movements that has started spreading across the world. Mark Arsten (talk) 19:41, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

My time here may be more limited than you realise.[11]. I'm not going to start work on anything else until there's some kind of resolution that's satisfactory to me. And if that's not forthcoming ... Malleus Fatuorum 19:50, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

That's understandable, thanks anyway. I hope that common sense prevails in the case, but as the expression goes, common sense is not very common around here. Mark Arsten (talk) 20:06, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Hi, friend

I don't know that you and I have ever interacted, apologies if I'm forgetting something. K-Wolf holds you in the highest esteem as a content creator and I've rapidly become a keen listener to what that guy has to say... Then the ongoing ArbCom extravaganza in your honor has put your own personage and views on my radar as well, although I have previously seen your name and opinions now and again on The Bad Site.

So anyway, hello. I've been pondering creating some sort of assemblage of Actual Content Creators with a view to formally hashing out problems and solutions. I'd like to bounce a couple of ideas off you. Drop me an email and let's talk. MutantPop@aol.com. Best regards, —Tim Davenport /// Corvallis, OR (USA) /// Carrite (talk) 19:34, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

It's forbidden to create any grouping here that not everyone is allowed to join; everyone's supposedly equal don'tcha know. Malleus Fatuorum 19:45, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

You mean my coven's going to be disbanded? And the familiars re-homed? And the broomsticks recycled? Noooooooo! Pesky (talk …stalk!) 19:49, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

You've got a coven eh? Now we're cooking with gas! Malleus Fatuorum 20:04, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

There seems to be no problem with creating a Writers' Union.

No matter how many times the distinction between "equal rights and obligations" and "equality" is explained, people just keep on repeating "at Wikipedia, everyone is equal". I can imagine that some of our "editors" drink from toilet bowls if their watchers don't pay attention.

In solidarity,

 Kiefer.Wolfowitz 20:02, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

I have strong suspicions that members of the coven hang out in WP:EQUINE ;D Pesky (talk …stalk!) 21:34, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA! As for toilet bowls, On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog. Montanabw^(talk) 00:02, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

See this for what happened last time. The all-knowing Community loathe any suggestion that some editors may be more useful than others, or of a place to have a conversation where every passerby's 2c doesn't need to be treated with Deep Seriousness. 173.164.243.154 (talk) 01:53, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

The once and future current Arb Hersfold voted to close the "Established Editors" project with extreme prejudice, stating "Established editors are no more worthy than new editors". At least Hersfold can walk on his hind legs and probably walk and chew bubble gum at the same time. Imagine what horrific decision would be looming if Panyd and Eluchil (sic) had been elected....  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 13:22, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Ahh, yes – we're allowed to cook with gas in these modern times ;P. Montanabw, be a darling and grab the tongs, would you? ….. Here's something I made earlier:

"Ear of sow and gut of boar,

All the stuff which fell on t'floor,

Snout of gilt, and one black rat

Which drowned on falling in the vat,

Butcher's thumb untimely chop'd

And down into the mincer drop'd,

Piglet's hide and youngling's pizzle

In the sausage spit and sizzle.

Pizzle fizzle, spit and sizzle;

Barbie, if it doesn't drizzle!"

Ketchup, anyone?

(the ketchup has a minor and harmless charm involved:
Clarity, charity, add up to parity;
principle-centred reduces polarity.)

[exit stage left, cackling] Pesky (talk …stalk!) 11:26, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Signing out now

I'm signing out now until ArbCom have deliberated. "I may be gone some time." Malleus Fatuorum 01:08, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

It doesn't work that way, Malleus ... as they put up Proposals, feedback is still considered. This business of "no more evidence" isn't the way it works-- they don't ignore things that come forward as they put up proposed findings. By the way, your case is poorly presented. WAY too much to read, but I don't believe anyone ever showed the number of times a double standard was employed at ANI or RFA, I don't believe anyone showed how often you were baited, and the arbs can only go on what is given to them. They weren't given enough. And I was too busy dealing with you-know-what and you-know-who over there at you-know-where, so what'rya gonna do? We can't do it all, but the case was too much to keep up with, and I don't believe the arbs were given the evidence they needed. I can't work on documenting admin abuse and double standards at the same time FAC is being politicized. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:12, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Perhaps, but I've had enough of the arguments and abuse. Let the Arbs make of it what they will. Malleus Fatuorum 01:16, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Goodness, I hope your dog doesn't die or your basement doesn't flood :) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:19, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Actually my basement has just flooded, how prescient of you. I had my central heating boiler changed just before Christmas, and it drained into the same plumbing that the washing machine did. But the arseholes used a 45 degree connector rather than a 90 degree connector and didn't even fit that right. Malleus Fatuorum 01:26, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Heh... That was a bit of a screw-up! Barts1a / What did I actually do right? / What did I do wrong this time? 01:28, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Well, the Culligan Man failed to hook up the cannisters correctly once in my basement, left something hugely leaking, and when I came downstairs a week later ... take care, there. Wet basements are As Awful As It Gets. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:29, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

(edit conflict) I'm not sure what Culligan Man means, but if it means what I think it does it can beat that. A friend of ours in London often used to find his neighbour's number twos in the lake beneath his house. Malleus Fatuorum 01:50, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

I hope the arbs can draw something good out of the mess. Meanwhile, good luck with the plumbing, and much appreciation for the edits and comments re MOO2. Geometry guy 01:47, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

I don't care what happens to me, I can take care of myself, but Philcha needs and deserves our help. Malleus Fatuorum 01:52, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

I know you can take care of yourself, but I among many care what happens here, not least because of your willingness to help others like Philcha. All helping each other is the way Wikipedia should be. Geometry guy 02:01, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

(edit conflict)Historically the arbs have given the appearance that they act on broad, general impressions rather than careful assessment of detailed evidence. This is especially true in complex cases such as this one. For example in the leaked arbcom emails relating to the climate change case one of them said "let's decide who we want to sanction and I'll find the diffs to justify it" or words to that effect. So I wouldn't feel too bad about not having put together complete evidence in polished form. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 01:55, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

(edit conflict) x 2. Your CH drained into the same plumbing as your washing machine? Summat wrong there, regardless of the connector. And since both are presumably pumped systems, it makes no odds whether the thing was 45 or 90. Learn Polish and find yourself a decent plumber. - Sitush (talk) 01:56, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

I've had Polish builders. Never again. Malleus Fatuorum 02:03, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

I intended to add a "<g>" to that, sorry. Honestly, though, in all my plumbing experience - which is fairly considerable - I've never known those two be interconnected. Yours must be a peculiar arrangement and, as I said, the shape of the connector will make no odds. The idea that something might siphon from the WM outlet to the CH boiler (which is what "drained" implies) is truly scary ... and if your point is that the WM is drawing HW from your CH then it really makes no odds whether it is 45, 90, 135 etc. Anyway, drop me an email if you get stuck - I have the feeling that we are not too far apart, I have no work on & while plumbing is not my job, I've done a lot of it. No charge, Malleus, no charge! - Sitush (talk) 02:12, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

The problem is a very simple one, and easily solved. The new connection was incorrectly plumbed in. Malleus Fatuorum 02:25, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

probably a teenage WP admin did it ... sorry ... I needed to smile at the moment. — Ched :  ?  03:13, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

I think that Arcom's pronouncements may be seminal. In fact I'm sure they will be, in one way or another. Malleus Fatuorum 03:26, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

I just hope they are fully aware of what the offspring may be before they give birth. I'm not sticking around to help raise some demon spawn. — Ched :  ?  03:31, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Let's wait and see if you're given the choice. Malleus Fatuorum 03:37, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

me personally - it'll be MY choice. I do what I damned well please in life. I'll be nice and civil about it, but if I don't like what's being shoveled my way .. I'll walk. I'm pretty sure you can relate to that sentiment.  :) — Ched :  ?  03:54, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

All I can say it that for me at least this is a seminal moment. The rest of you may make your own minds up. Malleus Fatuorum 04:02, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Me being me, I will continue to have hopes that the wiki may get something thoughtful, insightful, innovative and (most of all) scrupulously fair out of this. Teh Arbs have the opportunity here to make an enormous difference, and one which needs to be made if this project is not going to turn into an example of how not to do something in this respect. Bad laws, ill-defined, nebulous interpret-and-apply how you will, have always, always ended up causing chaos and harm, and bringing the system in which they appear into disrepute. There is an outstanding opportunity to be grabbed - let's just hope they have the sense and courage to grab it.

Meanwhile, don't drop right of touch, please! I have a couple of articles I'd like to work up to FA ..... Pesky (talk …stalk!) 07:36, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Do you have any idea how much work an FA is, even for superstars like me? ;-) Malleus Fatuorum 21:04, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

I do... I went through the hell twice (once as a primary and once in a supporting role) I also tried to become a regular there, but quickly discovered that I wasn't anal enough about English and WP MOS to be a good FA reviewer. My hats off to those who are good editors in that regard.---Balloonman ^{Poppa Balloon} 05:26, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

I've read through a heap of FAC wossnames, and seen the kind of things which go on in that elite little cavern. My come-back article (History of the horse in Britain) was funny; I'd never even heard of DYK and GA until I sent that page live and someone (I think it was Kim van der Linde) suggested it should go through both of them! At the time, of course, I had absolutely no idea how many hits a DYK usually got, so had trouble understanding what the big deal was when it got several thousand ;P Such a noob! That one, I really want to get some long-history stuff on saddlery and harness making, and farriery, and treatment of disease into the article. I don't feel, at the moment, that it covers enough of the broad history without those very important aspects in there, but the trouble (as always) is in finding the darned information to put there! But, once I;ve found and added the stuff I want, I'd like to send it off to FAC; and nothing stopping what's there from being brought up to scratch in the meantime. The Meermin slave mutiny wasn't mine, to begin with, I just hijacked it (re-homed it?); too late for a DYK, as I found it at the tail end of new pages, but it GA'd happily, and I'd like to bring that up to FA as well. I have a Google alert for any recent news on the archaeology project, as I'd love to get that into the end of the article at some point. There's a lack of closure there which is entirely due to circumstances beyond my control, and which frustrates the hell out of me! Again, nothing stopping what's there already from being polished up. Feel free to play with those to take your mind off the other stuff! Pesky (talk …stalk!) 11:26, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

11th hour

I was going to mention some 11th hour theatrics regarding the AC case, but it seems that it's now been extended to Friday; perhaps because he was a blocking admin.? It just all seems so melodramatic. But they say they're going to get some work done on it over the weekend. Best of luck Malleus - I honestly do hope it goes well for you. — Ched :  ?  04:20, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

Who gives a fuck. Malleus Fatuorum 04:25, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

Eh, I do. And Jesus--I read a billboard today that said he loves you. Drmies (talk) 05:23, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

The old ones are the best --ClemRutter (talk) 12:53, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

I give a fuck. But possibly only because there's a nasty word for those who sell them ... Pesky (talk …stalk!) 12:08, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

And so do all those gentle American lady editors who don't like the c word. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:27, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Thought you'd appreciate this

Do a Google search for "Define an English person". Does this mean we have to blacklist Google for incivility? 209.137.146.50 (talk) 21:27, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

"English person" here (and a quinquagenarian and female, to boot) ... ROFLMFAO! Pesky (talk …stalk!) 21:35, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

With regards to Malleus's Doric roots, it's worth pointing out that "Define a Scottish person" isn't much more civil. 209.137.146.50 (talk) 21:40, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Sorry to spoil all the fun, but it comes up with that because Google tries to be clever and includes "definition" as an auto-alternative for "define", looks for "English" and "person" with it; all those words appear on the relevant page. Then Google searches for which page with those words has the most links to it - and there ya go! Pesky (talk …stalk!) 21:46, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

And "American" as an alternative brings up "International traffic in arms regulations" in second place. Ahem. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 21:48, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Intention to cause offence is irrelevant, if anyone takes offence for any reason that makes it 'incivil' and it's time to fetch the tar and feathers. Or are you suggesting that Wikipedia's civility policy breaks down when confronted with reality? I do hope not. 209.137.146.50 (talk) 21:54, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

[much clearing of throat ...] Uncivil, pleeeease! ;P Pesky (talk …stalk!) 22:08, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

"Incivil" has been an accepted form for at least 98 years. Don't believe everything Lara tells you. 209.137.146.50 (talk) 22:19, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

OMFG ROFLMAFAOYSST Is it too late to add evidence to the case? I mean... this sheds an entirely different light on the case! Best "glitch" evar!---Balloonman ^{Poppa Balloon} 22:16, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

I also find this telling. I'd share a thought but find my two cents is regarded as nonnegotiable coinage around here (and I mean this as across Wikipedia) Even my motives are perceived malign. A certain amount is related to misunderstanding, I believe! The rest, and larger part, are my shortcomings; manifest. With that I'll preclude the rest. I can't even think of a salutation that wouldn't sound like it was straight out of a cunt, but generally would close with sincerely, or best regards. At this point I think I understand why most people simply end their comment without regards. It's one less thing to have questioned, or have to defend. My76Strat (talk) 22:30, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Jonathan Allen at Search Engine Watch] (wow, what a site), explains that it's all a case of "Bad Ranking" and that "it takes one to know one"! Whatever can that mean here, to the serried ranks of lowly and polite English wiki editors? Still, much hetter, I'm sure, than Chaque amoor fi na né - ITAR ITAR, na ney! Martinevans123 (talk) 22:44, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

@Pesky: Only a quinquagenarian? Sexagenarian here. I win! --Senra (talk) 22:52, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Good grief, Senra! I had you "pegged" as thirty-something! The virtual world is a very strange place.

@My76Strat; that's sad, what you wrote. In my obsessive-compulsive readings through all the links in the ArbCom case, and my head-bumping with Wikidemon, and the case I was involved in myself, and so many other things I've read through as "background research", it strikes me very strongly that a huge percentage of these spats and tiffs and so on seem to start from common-or-garden misunderstandings, misinterpretations of what "the other side" meant, being triggered off into a row by failure on one side or another (or both / all) to assume good faith. In some cases, of course, it's well-nigh impossible to assume any good faith at all, but I re-scripted, in my mind, almost everything I analysed in depth, and realised that if one / both / all parties had assumed good faith early on, almost every scenario would have played out differently. It's part and parcel of the human psyche / intellectual processes to categorise and classify things; to put labels on things and people. (And without that hard-wired into us, we would never have developed language.) But in a virtual world, where we have no non-verbal cues, and we don't know each other, it's so easy to get that process wrong, and all hell ensues. Another thing I noticed: almost everyone I encounter here in Wikiland, above teens age, seems to have come here already damaged in one way or another. Were we all the misfit kid who got picked on and bullied at school, or something? I see so much old hurt and scar tissue, wherever I look. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 09:44, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes. But I take my revenge by bullying people here, except the bigger bullies like Malleus! 13:15, 22 January 2012 (UTC)Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk)

Bullying is a strange admmission for an admin, coupled with a personal attack, "bigger bullies". Can you substantiate that? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.179.136.222 (talk) 14:09, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Heh! I don't perceive Malleus as a bully – rather more like the slightly-wounded badger which one approaches with good intent but due caution! I may be completely wrong, in which case Malleus is welcome to trout me, but what I'm seeing here is a damage-response, not innate nastiness. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 13:42, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

I've got to admit that Malleus can get a bit cranky when folks get condescending, uppity, or downright stupid; but, any time I've seen anyone approach him with respect, honesty, and dignity - it seems he'll go well out of his way to help. Although now may not be the best of times either. — Ched :  ?  13:45, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Pain, whether physical or emotional, makes all of us ratty. It's "species-normal" across so many species! We can surely make allowances for each other. I'm going to stick my neck out and guesstimate the average editor-age on this page at late-forties, minimum ;P If we're teenagers, we're in the "umpteen" category, lol! Pesky (talk …stalk!) 13:59, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Pain puts some of us off from wanting to be great content contributors such as reviewing or nominating FACs. So you get yourself a set of tools and wield your power in the nastiest way possible, and even if you don't, as an admin, you're still considered to be one of the nasties (by some...). Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 14:16, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Nah, I'm never gonna be a Nadmin! I've come to the conclusion that I'm probably the Civility Police Dog, and quite happy to play with the tug-toy, no matter who is on the other end, provided that they're playful ;P Pesky (talk …stalk!) 14:22, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

"woof" .. :-) — Ched :  ?  14:41, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

[Pesky dips and folds ears politely, does the wrinkly-nose wolfly grin, and spins, chasing tail ...] Pesky (talk …stalk!) 14:48, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

If you're still knocking about...

Pain fitzJohn could use your wonderful massaging powers. (Wonder if that'll get Moni over here making comments...). Baldwin will hit FAC soon, hopefully this week, but RL has been biting my butt all weekend. At one point, I even exclaimed "Bloody hell" .. which tells me Im either watching too much BBC or I've been hanging around Brits too long... Ealdgyth - Talk 00:10, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Ooooh, can I have your wonderful massaging powers, too, please? ;P Pesky (talk …stalk!) 08:20, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm afraid I tend to be a bit on the rough side, so I'm told. I watched a rather interesting programme on BBC4 last night, which you may have seen, "Survivors: lust for life". It's about a female documentary director from Rochdale who goes into hospital for a routine thyroid operation only to be told a few weeks later that she's got cancer. It's basically about how she, her family and her friends deal with that bombshell. It's got a happy ending, at least for her, but if you can access it via the BBC's iPlayer just count the number of times she says "fucking this", or "fucking that". She draws up a bucket list, and towards the end of the film she leaves a message to her cancer: "Bugger off!". The link is here, but I guess it'll only work if you're in the UK. Malleus Fatuorum 21:15, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Barbara Ehrenreich wrote another great piece, "Welcome to Cancerland", about her experiences as a breast-cancer patient, which she turned into another great book:

• Bright-sided: How the Relentless Promotion of Positive Thinking Has Undermined America (2009). In the United Kingdom this book is called Smile Or Die: How Positive Thinking Fooled America and the World 9 January 2010 Guardian/UK

Barbara (Ph.D., biology, Rockefeller U.) would last about one day here before the civility police indef'ed her.

Malleus, you should write a book based on your experiences here. It could be made into a movie co-directed by Christopher Noland and Tim Burton.  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 22:35, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Amusing

Given all the uproar over language and other "civility" issues, I thought you might appreciate that I just got called "uncivil" for writing an edit summary that said: "Sentence structure, people, please" after correcting some very strange grammar. Deary, deary me. I know I have a long way to go before I'm in your league, Malleus, but apparently I'm well on my way.--TEHodson 00:46, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

The situation here is crazy and self-destructive. Wikipedia has to try and deal with it, but inevitably it won't. Malleus Fatuorum 01:19, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

As the valley girls would say: "fer shure, fer shure". Wiki never really solves anything, the power cliques just push people aroundPumpkinSky talk 01:23, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

A recent quote reminded me of your situation:

"When a true genius appears in this world, you may know him by this sign,

{{{1}}}that the dunces are all against him."

I know that you will not be able to accept the title of genius, you are indeed too modest, but nonetheless - it isn't what you say/do/are, its what people think you said/did/are that matters. Chaosdruid (talk) 03:24, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Old-fashioned traditional British eccentric, I think ;) And clearly not lacking in smarts, either. And quite probably, technically, at the genius level, if one believes in levels. What I want to know is whether MF has the regulation tweed jacket with leather elbow-patches, the pipe, and the Nutty Professor Hair. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 08:09, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

No tweed jacket, I don't smoke, and my hair veers between the style of a defendant and a prosecuting barrister, as I'm an irregular visitor to my barber. Malleus Fatuorum 15:10, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

[chuckles] My hair ... well ... it's hair, is about the best I can say of it! You know those people who complain about having a double crown? They're lucky. Try seven for a real pig's ear! Nutty Professor Hair would be a humungous improvement, for me. And I haz a tweed jacket :o) It's the horsey variety! Pesky (talk …stalk!) 17:07, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Wrapping Up

We are wrapping up the project and heading south for the winter. The essential piece to the projects success is collaboration. My students were fortunate to have such an outstanding editor willing to express an interest in their work. That was the catalyst that keep them engaged. Your patience, tolerance, and tact is remarkable. Incidentally, the class has been monitoring this "trial" and very much wanted to weigh in on your behalf. I advised them to stay out of the politics; but know, you have both theirs an my support. On another note, I am unable to allocate the time to effectively monitor the students second semester. One or two have expressed an interest in an FA attempt; although I am not offering any academic incentives. There will be no 2012 Project... I've decided to pack-up the podium. I had hoped someone in the English Department would step in; however, they have heard me rant and rave for the last 4 years thus will not take the bait. I plan some post project analysis as promised to gain insight on reasonable student to mentor ratios to help those mentoring such projects determine a reasonable balance. Hopefully, I will not be the last high school to give this a go. Again, on behalf of a backwater high school on the edge of no-where, our sincere expression of appreciation.--JimmyButler (talk) 20:18, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Wish you had posted the above as a piece of evidence on behalf of your class. While I appreciate and think the guidance for the class not to get involved, I do think it could have been meaningful to have you represent the class in a comment. But alas, this is why I think Malleus is of benefit to the project. He can be a rude SOB when somebody gets on his bad side, but the perponderance of his edits are to improve the project. I have zero doubt that he wants to improve WP.---Balloonman ^{Poppa Balloon} 20:37, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm rather touched by the idea of your students wanting to get stuck in on my behalf, but you were quite right to dissuade them. I think that what you and they have achieved is quite remarkable, perhaps particularly this last year. If I survive this ordeal I'll be more than happy to help any of them who fancy tilting at an FAC, and if I don't, well, at least we achieved something worthwhile. And Balloonman, you are of course quite right, I can give at least as good as I get, and no matter what ArbCom decides I'm not going to change. It's Wikipedia that has to change, not me. Malleus Fatuorum 20:52, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

And Balloonman, why the "alas" in your observation? Sounds like you still want to get rid of me. Malleus Fatuorum 20:58, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

No it was because he didn't make the comments and at this point it is too late for him to do so... I just hope that some Arbs are watching this page and see his comments, because this is the type of thing that you don't get credit for.---Balloonman ^{Poppa Balloon} 05:24, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

It is a shame that at least that project's co-ordinator couldn't put that in as evidence, even if the students themselves were best left out of it. Malleus, having trawled through waaaay too many of your edits, I have to say that it seems extremely rare (negligibly rare) for you to snark without provocation, though the provocation may not necessarily be immediately apparent to people looking at just one or two surrounding edits. In terms of percentages, I truly don't believe that your snark-percentage is any worse that that of several other of our less-patient editors, though clearly if I could provide you with some anti-snark magic I would gladly do so! I understand why you snark, when you you do; at the same time I also understand why it would be better (mainly for you!) if your internal snark-monster were a bit less trigger-happy ;P Pesky (talk …stalk!) 12:05, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

I could use a bit of that snark-dust myself. MF, good luck to you in hopes of a fair outcome. My76Strat (talk) 12:11, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

The times I've found myself wishing for some anti-snark pixie-dust in my dealings with mother! I feel I need do no more than to point out the background of professional actress-singer-dancer, high intelligence, occasionally-violent dementia, and to add to the delightful cocktail stir in the fact that we're functioning down / up at the red-headed women region of the feistiness spectrum, and I can leave the rest to your imaginations! Fortunately, she only weighs about five and a half stone, so despite having Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome and hence extraordinarily supple, though she can be a right handful, at least she can't (literally) throw her weight about too uncontrollably! Pesky (talk …stalk!) 13:11, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

O_O ... Facepalm ... ok ... now I've seen it all. — Ched :  ?  15:00, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Oh malleus, about the "Alas" comment... I think you might find the following edit of interest [12] Notice the date of the edit too...---Balloonman ^{Poppa Balloon} 02:33, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Kudpung's latest baiting of Malleus

A thought for you!

Well, at least it's a novel approach to achieving Kudpung's evident goal of eliminating all opposition at every RfA. - Malleus Fatuorum The only thing I would like to eliminate from Wikipedia is MF's novel approach to communication. If he wants to offend to make offence a skill, it's a bit late to redeem time when men think least he will. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 09:21, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Discussion of Kudpung's passive-aggressive baiting

There are far worse people; probably just not so high-profile. Trouble is, once someone's become high-profile, they're an obvious target. People notice Malleus because he's Malleus; they pick up on and react to things which they would ignore in other people. Sad, but true. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 09:49, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

And you're saying MF doesn't have targets? Thing is, he aims when they're not looking. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 09:55, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

And you do have targets, one of which is obviously MF. A pointy message on MF's talkpage disguised as a wikilove message could be described as baiting. Not very nice under the circumstances, certainly appalling for an admin.J3Mrs (talk) 10:04, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Yuk --Epipelagic (talk) 11:00, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Kudpung just blamed Malleus for driving away "another editor/admin" today on Pesky's talk page, with no evidence, per his usual m.o.

Attacking his betters and enabling other mediocrities gives him purpose.  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 11:55, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Purpose? I see him mainly advocating that any presumptuous content editor who makes a constructive criticism of any administrator or administrator wannabee, or of the process of electing an administrator, or worse, has the gall to offer a constructive alternative to the current administration structure, should be blocked. It seems to me that if Kudpung has his way, all development on Wikipedia would cease, and all content editors, worthless as they are, would join together in reverential worship of the current administrators. I naturally hasten to add, in this fraught environment, that this observation does not in any sense imply a criticism, and is merely a detached observation. --Epipelagic (talk) 12:56, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Presumably Kudpung is referring to himself? If so, a net gain for the project I think. Malleus Fatuorum 15:04, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

• From what I can read of "export beer" I wouldn't suggest that this was "disguised as a wikilove message." Your tastes in beer and backhanded insults may vary. Fifelfoo (talk) 12:23, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

• The slogan "Hey kids, let's put on a show" was more successful than Kudpung et alia's announcement of RfA Deform---a plan to grab power from writers and give it to babes in arms, users with short records of negligible writing. Sycophantic suggestions that the talk-page missives of Jimbo Wales were "essential reading" inspired confidence proportional to Jimbo's editing, i.e. little.

  May Kudpung return from his Wikipedia vacation more mindful of Johnny One Note, who

  sang out with gusto

  and just o-

  -verloaded the place.

  Poor Johnny one-note

  yelled willy nilly

  Until he was blue in the face,

  For holding one note was his ace.

  Couldn’t hear the brass,

  Couldn’t hear the drum,

  He was in a class

  By himself, by gum!"

  Johnny One Note needed help from those who could listen to the brass, the drum, and the audience---those who were not musically autistic. Perhaps those with a painful record of mistaking the talk pages at RfA Deform and user:Jimbo Wales for community will should get help from those who are not politically autistic.

  Sincerely,  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 13:26, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

• I want that magic wand of niceness. It's a bit sad; I've always got on very well with Kudpung. His heart is very much in the right place. I think the trouble with Wikiland is that none of us can get together for a beer – thing would be very different, I think, if we knew who each other were. That's probably grammatically incorrect, but y'all know what I mean. You never know, we might actually find we liked a few more people. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 17:03, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

• Do you have an explanation for his misleading and slanderous posting here? Malleus Fatuorum 17:15, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

I have no idea what the background to this is. It seems a bit out of character, to me. One of the major points of RfA Reform was to discourage people from nomming themselves, or accepting a nomination, if they really weren't ready for adminship. One of the best ways to cut down the snark in that snarkfest would be to ensure that the snarkworthy weren't nominated in the first place, heh! Kudpung's never (AFAIK) been pro-baby-admins himself. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 17:19, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Let me suggest the background to you; ArbCom are deliberating this week and Kudpung has seized an opportunity to tighten the screw by propagating the lie that I am driving editors away. Malleus Fatuorum 17:28, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Surely, now that the ArbCom is in "closed session" no furher evidence, whether accurate or not, can even be considered. So this is a complete distraction. Even further actual "incivility" would need to be wholly discounted from current deliberations? 31.52.180.236 (talk) 18:47, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

If you think the Arbs are blind to this page and those of others, you are somewhat niave. While the official evidence presentation phase is over, I have zero doubt that some are watching this page (and other involved editors). Not necessarily because they are collecting evidence, but because they might have various user pages watched. I also have zero doubt that some are reading the tea leafs to see which way the wind is blowing.---Balloonman ^{Poppa Balloon} 19:56, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

I somewhat doubt that any alleged incivility from me will be ignored, but no doubt it will be from the saintly Kudpung. Malleus Fatuorum 18:55, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Saint Kud of Pung, as he is known, allegedly. 31.52.180.236 (talk) 19:19, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

What does that mean? "Pung" is Swedish for scrotum and purse. Is "Kud" supposed to be a homonym for "cud".  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 11:28, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

My comment led to a threat or contemplation of a block from Blade of the North. Medium drama, not even medium rare.  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 19:12, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Just another example of the hypocrisy shown in this place, by rights the civility police should have swooped by now. But when it's one of their own.......J3Mrs (talk) 19:28, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Without any realistic evidence to suggest that you were heavily involved, I don't think the Arbs would bite on that one. Maybe there's something else going on with him that I'm not aware of. He may just have been doing far too much new-page-patroller monitoring, or something, and burned out a bit. Adding: sometimes, when we're just run down, the stupidest little thing is enough to dishearten us. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 18:01, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

• Please, guys'n'gals, there are enough demons in this world without us creating fresh ones. There are so many explanations possible as to why Kudpung has decided to take a break; it's probably a combination of many factors, most of which we will be unaware of. It saddens me to see y'all talking like this; I've always got on well with Kudpung, and found him to be well-intentioned and with the best interests of t'Wiki at heart. I know other people have seen other sides to him – but humans are complex creatures, and we all have an awful lot of facets. It's wrong in so many ways only to focus on one facet of someone, and when we do that, it just makes us, ourselves, feel worse inside. This is something I've had to fight, within myself, about certain categories of real-life people, for well over ten years (due to real-life issues). I possibly have this worse than the average person, as I suffer from both C-PTSD and OCD, and when I let that dragon out of his cage, I get obsessive, murderous (literally) rage building up. In waking hours, I keep it suppressed, but it surfaces in nightmares and reconstructive flashbacks; ultimately the scariest thing in any of my nightmares is me. I know this territory, and though I've probably experienced it to extremes, its signposts are familiar. Take half an hour to think of a hundred other reasons or combinations of reasons why Kudpung might be needing to take a break. There's no way it's going to be solely-Malleus-induced, or solely-Malleus-oriented. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 10:16, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Oh for goodness sake Kudpung himself said on your page it was due to Malleus. You are directing this at the wrong people.J3Mrs (talk) 10:20, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Hi J3Mrs!

Kudpung wrote that Malleus had driven away another editor, not that Malleus had driven away Kudpung.

Kudpung has previously accused "incivlity at RfA" of depriving WP of worthy administrators, and claimed that privacy prevented him from divulging names of victims. I believe that Kudpung is just continuing "I have a list of names" attacks on Malleus. None of the administrators getting their jollies from doing opposition research against Malleus have ever chastized Kudpung for violating NPA as an administrator.

 Kiefer.Wolfowitz 11:28, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Please don't snarl at me; I mean well, really. I think Kudpung's action/reaction is because of a last-straw thing, really. And remember, when people are hurting or have just had enough of a complex situation, they say (and post) things in the heat of the moment which don't truly represent all their thought processes. I've done it myself; I think we all have. I don't know what brought this on, whether there was any interaction between Malleus and Kudpung immediately prior to this which triggered this, I haven't looked. We all do something stupid sometimes; there are many, many words I've said in the heat of the moment which I wish I could un-say. It's best just to let it go, and reduce the emotional damage by not re-hashing everything and focussing too strongly on it. We can't know everything that's going on in another human being's mind and emotions, and I believe it's vitally important not to pass judgment on anything like this without knowing every scrap of relevant data, and once we know that, still only pass judgment when something is wholly beyond reasonable doubt. If it's reasonable to have doubts, because we don;t know everything, then we shouldn't pass judgment. If we do, it's almost never truly just. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 10:33, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

If someone writes "I'm leaving because of ...." I AGF and believe them. That wasn't a snarl, it was disbelief.J3Mrs (talk) 10:41, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm being over-sensitive (again!) Blame the medical problems, and the meds. I'm sure what he posted was waaaay over-simplified; there's bound to be far more to it than that. Sometimes, we just snap. It's species-normal. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 11:00, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Civility enforcement/Proposed decision

I'm very worried; has one of the half-witted little admins protected this page by mistake? - so that Arbs can't edit it. I think it extraordinary that a group of people so keen to accept a case now seem unable to even post a thought on it. Perhaps it has all been too rushed and hurried. Alternatively, perhaps they have all been stricken with winter vomiting disease or just possibly they are as sick as parrots for being so short sighted and eager to accept the case. One lives here in a state of constant wonder. Giacomo Returned 19:40, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

It all adds to the suspense, and isn't that the point? Malleus Fatuorum 19:46, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Eh, I suspect that just like Sandy advised Malleus to write his defense offline and have it reviewed before posting it, lest it stir unnecessary drahma, that the Arbs in question are probably trying to finalize the wording before posting this case to the proposed decisions page. When we do see something, I pretty much expect it to be a fait accompli---because whatever they propose is going to be criticized by the supporters and detractors of Malleus/civility/etc. This is a high profile case which is going to generate a response. They want to get it right before making it public.---Balloonman ^{Poppa Balloon} 19:50, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

I think they're between a rock and a hard place, but I'm not sympathetic to their plight; they opted against all common sense to accept the case. Malleus Fatuorum 19:55, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

They are definitely between a rock and a hard place... but they accepted that when they accepted the role of Arb.---Balloonman ^{Poppa Balloon} 19:57, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

(edit conflict) On a point of order, they didn't accept the role, they sought the role, by putting themselves forwards as candidates. Malleus Fatuorum 20:11, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

I do hope there are no casualties. (Personally, I voted for more "action adventure"!) Martinevans123 (talk) 20:04, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

• Oh so do I, they have only been elected five minutes - too soon to fall on their swords. It's all very different from in my day. Then, they all used to discuss it on IRC En-Admins and then announce their deliberations. No, Balloonman, you are quite wrong - they are all as sick as green parrots and are squabbling on how to get themselves out of this hole without losing face. It's all very well wanting a sacrificial lamb, but one has to choose a meek littel lamb not a grumpy old bear, otherwise the whole thing all tend to go belly up. Giacomo Returned 20:12, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
• That's a great film, backwards. It's about a one-armed man who finds an arm in some rocks. Parrot of Doom 20:13, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Only have to speak of parrots for one to appear. 20:16, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

• In the Monty Hall problem decision, ArbCom took their time formulating a decision, and did not let their egos get in the way of listening to the mathematical community. In my opinion, their good sense saved them and us from a terrible initial decision.

It would look unfair if ArbCom changed its procedures when dealing with high-profile WP-governance cases, instead of using a method that worked well when dealing with article-conflicts. Even if they do draft a decision behind closed doors, they should still give the community time to comment on a proposed decision. Listening to the community has worked for everybody before.

 Kiefer.Wolfowitz 20:51, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I remember Monty Hall only too well. There were some seriously dubious proposals there. Thankfully most of them did not survive their first encounter with reason, but one or two did. Maybe WP:FIVE should appear as the editintro for every Proposed Decision page. Geometry guy 01:46, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Arbcom have specifically said that they're not going to post the proposed decision until 29 January. It seems a bit unfair on them to take them to task for keeping a promise. 209.137.146.50 (talk) 01:41, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Don't bother to wait for the decision - here it is.

• I expect that they are experiencing some form of problem reaching an agreement - the bossy one will be shouting about and the nervous ones having fits of the vapours and one or two droning on off subject and a one other droning on about a subject that no one is quite sure of. Then they will arrive at a face saving result that no one agrees with - I can tell you exactly what it will be - editors will be "reminded" and Malleus wll receive a warning, told he's been extremely naughty and then be topic banned for a year and told to be sweetness and light to all or he will be blocked. Then (need I continue?) Elonka and her mates will arrive en posse to the scene and keep blocking him, he will get cross, I will get cross, Scotty Mac will opine - then Malleus will be unblocked, ANI will be electrified with calls for de-sysopping and we will have a year of needles drama. And why is this? because a lot of silly new arbs don't study history and human behaviour and a lot of people are a little precious and over sensitive. One despairs one really does. Giacomo Returned 08:51, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

You are probably right. A year of "needles" drama sounds painful, but life is full of small pricks. Brianboulton (talk) 09:47, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

[Pesky sniggers] ... but most men don't admit to it ... Pesky (talk …stalk!) 11:01, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Goodness, Giano, you've outdone yourself (again). But I'm wondering if you'll get a talk page warning for evoking the name of she-who-will-not-be-named? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:53, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Who won't be named? Whose name can't I say? Giacomo Returned 17:59, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

If I told 'ya, I'd have to kill 'ya. (I see you don't read *my" talk page <harump>.) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:01, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Oh her! Well we can't live in fear of treading on toes, no matter how beautifully pedicured they are. Giacomo Returned 18:30, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Think not? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:35, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Oh hell! I had no idea that Mrs G had found employment. Incidentally this thread reminds me. I met a man the other day whose ambition was to be an organ peddle under Diane Bish's foot. Don't you think that extraordinary? Giacomo Returned 18:45, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Nice video. Got any more like that? Malleus Fatuorum 19:19, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

A la orden: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7gMkiOPSeA SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:46, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for that, but I'll have to have a cold shower and a lie down now. For me, this is simply the best. Malleus Fatuorum 22:57, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Ingrate. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:59, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

A year of "needles drama" sounds better than two years (but with one single term of 12 months) of "blunt pen-knife drama"? Martinevans123 (talk) 15:53, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

That is indeed pretty much what I expect the outcome to be Giano. Malleus Fatuorum 19:22, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Giano's prediction could be adapted into an excellent "How many Wikipedians does it take to change a light bulb?" joke. One to accuse the light bulb of incivility, another to block MF for it, 20 to agitate at ANI, 5 to start an arbcom case, and so the story unfolds... Geometry guy 11:39, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

You missed one to insist that there is a particular Wiki-way to change a light bulb and that all other methods are wrong (as the Wiki-standard must trump all other methods and conventions). This will generate a flurry of talk page charges and counter-charges (punctuated by breath-holding and fist pounding) before MF somehow gets involved and triggers the other series of events. Note that the "Wiki-standard" light bulb changing debate will continue at the same time.Intothatdarkness (talk) 14:58, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

I only just began: see the Star Trek version below! Geometry guy 22:07, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

OK, on that note ... How many Star Trek fans does it take to change a light bulb? (Cookies for the first to answer correctly! And by "correctly", I mean the answer which I have ...) Pesky (talk …stalk!) 11:59, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

I don't know, but I assume at some point in the process at least one of them dresses up in a lightbulb costume... --Floquenbeam (talk) 13:50, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Coincidentally, I actually was thinking of a Star Trek light bulb joke when I made my comment above, because Giano's witty post reminded me of the following answer to the question "How many crew members of the Starship Enterprise does it take to change a light bulb?"...

Scotty reports to Captain Kirk that one of the dilithium light bulbs in the engine room is dead. Kirk sends Bones McCoy to mend it, but Bones finds there are no spare light bulbs, adding "Dammit, Jim - I'm a doctor not an electrician!". Scotty says he can keep the engines running for three days at most without light bulbs, because he "cannae change the laws of physics".

Spock scans the sector and notes that the nearest planetary system with light bulb capability is the previously unknown world of Alpha Regula IV, so Kirk orders Sulu to proceed there at maximum warp. On arrival, Kirk beams down with a landing party of Spock, Bones, Sulu and a red-shirt security officer. They are promptly attacked and captured by the primitive inhabitants; the red-shirt is killed in the fight. Meanwhile, in orbit, Chekov must take evasive action to avoid an approaching Klingon warship, which he cannot challenge without new light bulbs.

The native King orders Kirk to fight his best warrior in hand-to-hand combat, whom Kirk defeats by throwing him over his shoulder. The King invites them to negotiate and Bones notices that the King is suffering from chronic indigestion and cures him. The grateful King releases the landing party and offers them all the light bulbs they can carry. Chekov returns to orbit and beams up the landing party. They install the light bulb just in time to save the engines and destroy the Klingon warship.

Kirk records another successful mission in his log, and Spock raises one eyebrow.

We need a version of this for Wikipedia! Geometry guy 22:07, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

FYI, the question "How many Wikipedians does it take to screw in a lightbulb?" was answered back in October. --Floquenbeam (talk) 13:45, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

That's hilarious. Well done.--SPhilbrick(Talk) 15:22, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Brilliant! Made my day :o) Pesky (talk …stalk!) 16:21, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

I think the total count is off... shouldn't it be 42? That way we we might finally know the question?---Balloonman ^{Poppa Balloon} 16:32, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

I believe 42 is the count over at Citizendium; they're slightly less dysfunctional than we are. However, it takes them 3.5 years to make the change. --Floquenbeam (talk) 16:50, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

fan-freakin-tastic. Laughed my butt off. — Ched :  ?  17:46, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Me too! That was hilarious. --John (talk) 19:11, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Well done!

How many psychologists/therapists/social-workers/WP-Mediation_Committee members does it take to change a lightbulb?

Just one. But first, the lightbulb must want to change ....  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 22:38, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

... and how many Zen masters does it take? (Nope, they won't do it, because change must come from within ;P) Pesky (talk …stalk!) 14:47, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

How many Star Trek fans does it take to change a light bulb? Only a few – and then thousands will write in to complain that it's nothing like as good as the original ... Pesky (talk …stalk!) 15:47, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Minor barnstar
	Thanks for your help on Poppy Meadow! MayhemMario 20:53, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

I've done nothing really. I think that if you put your shoulder to it and succeed in enlisting the right kind of collaborator(s) you stand a very good chance of success at the next FA nomination, but PR is a very sensible first move. Malleus Fatuorum 20:57, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

If you do send it to PR, please do drop me a line and I'll do my best to offer a review. J Milburn (talk) 23:45, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Waitrose

I'll just leave this here: http://twitpic.com/8bvfl9 Andy Dingley (talk) 18:21, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Peer review of Pope John Paul II

Hi Malleus, I thought you might be interested in participating in this peer review. Kind Regards -- Marek.69 ^talk 01:14, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Hi Malleus, do you have any comments on the article? -- Marek.69 ^talk 09:04, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm afraid not. Malleus Fatuorum 16:49, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

OK, thank you Malleus. :-) -- Marek.69 ^talk 18:59, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

To whom it may concern

I've had to temporarily disable my email as I'm switching telephone, broadband provider, and ISP, and until that's sorted in the next week or so (hopefully) I'm reduced to piggy-backing on a friendly neighbour's WiFi connection. So I'm not ignoring anyone. Promise. Malleus Fatuorum 00:21, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

First it's your plumbing now your internet....---Balloonman ^{Poppa Balloon} 02:09, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

All problems with pipes of one kind or another. 209.137.146.50 (talk) 02:29, 27 January 2012 (UTC)note for anyone under 40, in Ye Olden Tymes an internet connection was called a "pipe".

Well I promised you pictures of my new kitchen days ago-- did you get my e-mail recently? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 02:14, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

No, I didn't. BT have promised that everything should be sorted out by Monday, but we'll see. I look forward to seeing your pictures, might give me some ideas for our own horror. Malleus Fatuorum 02:59, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

You didn't get an email from me that included an inquiry from me about how to open a file? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:51, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Nope. I've had no emails for a week or so now. Malleus Fatuorum 18:08, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

PS to Balloonman: the plumbing still isn't fixed, just had to paddle through yet another mini-flood in the basement. :-( Malleus Fatuorum 03:04, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Re kitchens, I personally recommend a stroll through Ikea. When I moved my parents from London down to here, we had the deep joy of spending someone else's money to rig up the whole house here to store 50 years' worth of accumulated hoarding, and with Ikea handy, it took us about ten days to do the lot, including redecorating throughout and re-carpeting downstairs. Unbelievably easy to assemble and install; styles to suit every taste; bloody excellent value for money. And I'm happy to provide tips on interior design for you – it's something I love doing. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 09:58, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm a big fan of Ikea as well, and in fact I've got a range of their free-standing kitchen units waiting patiently to be installed in our basement. I'm also a big fan of Wickes. We have a flat that we rent out, and inevitably it sometimes gets a little trashed. A couple of years ago we had to refit the entire kitchen, including plumbing and electrics, and we managed to do the lot, including beautiful beech worktops, for just a few hundred pounds. It was hard work though, and I even had to custom-build one of the cabinets myself. I always knew those woodwork lessons at school would come in handy one day. Malleus Fatuorum 14:29, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Malleus, I doubt there will ever be a "right" place to put this comment, I doubt I'm particularly qualified to comment on your talk page, and I seriously doubt that you give two shits about what I have to say - but whatever. I'm very impressed at the way you have handled yourself in the arbitration case, in the way you've tried to keep the focus on what the heck "civility" actually means, and by-and-large not sharpened up any particular axe with another editor's name on it. Is that apostrophe right for the possessive? I honestly have no idea! Five minutes before the blackout, I loaded up the evidence and workshop pages and I must say, you are the calmest and clearest one of the lot, the Malleus whose comments I always do look at on the first go-round. Well done, and I hope the case results in something actually workable for the community, rather than simple findings that such-and-such did this-and-that wrong on then-and-whenever date. In case you see that as a compliment, it wouldn't bother me too much if you get topic-banned from WT:RFA, or maybe topic-banned from making a second comment, I dunno. Have fun with the technology, and the telecom employees who stab away at their consoles trying to get everything set up, and occasionally send a technician out to be sure the actual wires got plugged into the mysterious green box out on the street. :) Franamax (talk) 04:44, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for that Franamax. But believe me, I have lots of sharpened axes just waiting to be deployed appropriately. ;-) Malleus Fatuorum 05:34, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

I can see it now: "Malleus just walked around the corner, saw you, threw a little axe at you (which missed), cursed, and ran away." :) Geometry guy 21:45, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

And just for the sake of completeness, a topic ban from WT:RFA wouldn't bother me either; in fact I think everyone ought to be topic banned from that place. Malleus Fatuorum 05:41, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Any community which seeks to silence its critics is following one of history's worst examples, and deserves to be obliterated. Though if we can, as a community, fix it without WikiTimişoara it would be better. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 09:40, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

True, but WT:RFA has got to be just about one of the most useless and impotent pages in the whole of Wikipedia, which is saying something. Malleus Fatuorum 14:21, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

I endorse the product and/or service which that comment provides. I try to avoid the place myself, or make as few comments as possible if I feel drawn in. It's interesting reading I grant you, but any attempt at substantive discussion soon enough gets sidetracked by various, ahem, and a multitude of others trying to push their view, rather than trying to pick up any common theme. Hey, if I name myself as a party, do you think I could get topic-banned there too? ;) Franamax (talk) 08:38, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

My new broadband connection won't be installed until next Wednesday, but (no doubt) much to my neighbour's relief I can now use BT's public Wi-Fi service in the interim as there's a local hotspot within range. The good news though is that my new connection will be about half as fast again as my old one at about half the price, taking into account BT's unlimited call deal. Hopefully all of the hassle will be worth it. Malleus Fatuorum 14:21, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Your old connection must have been abysmally slow and expensive… BT had an offer whereby the subscriber pays £150 upfront and gets a £50 discount on their direct debit over the year (or something like that)- domn't know if that's still active. The BT account also includes a "professional" Flickr account (unlimited uploads). Ning-ning (talk) 17:38, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, there is still some kind of discount deal. I forget the details, but it's something like you get one month free line rental every year plus some money back IIRC. Malleus Fatuorum 18:07, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

God help you if you're getting BT broadband, I have it and it usually takes me about 2-3 minutes to open a page. BigDom 17:43, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

My wife has had a BT business broadband connection provided by her employer for a couple of years now, and it's always been very quick and reliable. And I've always had a BT broadband connection, just provided via a third-party ISP. The problem then is that if something goes wrong BT and the ISP tend to blame each other before sorting out the problem. Plus I get separate bills for calls and broadband usage, and no deal on calls. Given the distance to my local exchange and the line quality the maximum speed I can get is 8Mbs, but I was only getting 6Mbs with the wind behind me on a good day. Malleus Fatuorum 18:02, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

2MB/s downloads here on Virgin. It gets doubled later this year too, for free. As for email, just get a Gmail account. Parrot of Doom 23:47, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

We'll see if I really get 8Mbps or not, but having free access to BT's Openzone WiFi network is handy, and in fact that's what I'm using now. As for email, I think I'll do as you suggest and set up a new gmail account, and maybe forward on to it anything sent to my old account. But on the other hand I may just abandon it, as it's really just become a spam magnet. Malleus Fatuorum 01:14, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

I use BT infinity, and get about 4-5MB/s where the server can deliver that, which is not particularly common in my experience. Long Wikipedia pages still can take ages to load (half a minute perhaps): the delay is a server-side issue. Geometry guy 01:54, 28 January 2012 (UTC) PS. Hope you didn't miss the colossal ref above.

Can't get BT infinity here, even though we're only about two miles from the city centre. What colossal ref? Malleus Fatuorum 02:00, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

You will get it eventually (both the optic cable, and the reference to the famous threatening little dwarf above). Geometry guy 02:18, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

And remember you can drop the bird and the birdcage in 2 different places to help you map out the first maze, and you might have to put down the golden eggs to get through the second one. :) If I'm remembering right :)Franamax (talk) 03:06, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Free bird. Alarbus (talk) 06:42, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

I think I tried stomp bird once and got "You are in the low chamber. There is a dead bird here." :) (Malleus, this is just hopelessly geeky kibitzing, sorry) Franamax (talk) 08:17, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Free bird → bird drives away snake. Alarbus (talk) 08:32, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

We use Tiscali/TalkTalk; on the whole it's really good, generally fast (though our router is crap and keeps disconnecting - router's fault, not Tisc/TT). It seemed to be the cheapest over-all, includes line rental and all calls free. Speed usually in the 6-7 mbps range in this area (a bit behind the times, down here!) Off the top of my head, it's £21.50 a month or thereabouts. Been with them for several years. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 09:22, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Hm. I am currently acting as an expert witness in four legal battles vs TT due to connectivity issues. A bargepole is not long enough, at least if you are using them around my bit of the world. - Sitush (talk) 09:30, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Sounds though either I and my family have been very lucky, or your people must have been unlucky! We've had up to five different households with them at any one time, and not had any major problems. Mind you, I still remember 26K dial-up ... compared to that, everything's good! And dialling in, getting engaged signals all the time, then listening to all that manic-rat-nest sounds, and taking an hour to download a new programme, and having to go to the library for the big ones, because the connection dropped before the download was completed ... aahhhh, those were the days! Not. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 09:50, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

You are too young! 300 bps acoustic couplers were the first of my domestic modems. Only marginally better than two tins & a length of string. - Sitush (talk) 10:04, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I remember those, too! But that was before the Interwebz thing really got going ... Have you watched War Games recently? Pesky (talk …stalk!) 11:37, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Recently? Never would be nearer to the mark. IIRC, it was not subtitled the last time I tried to watch it. FWIW, my coupler was back in the days of FIDO messageboards etc. - Sitush (talk) 12:20, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

There's a scene where the young hacker dials in (on an ordinary phone, with an actual dial, IIRC), settles the handset into its nest, loads up his little programmes from his little cassette player ... bless! Pesky (talk …stalk!) 12:33, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Woah. I didn't realise that they were filming me. - Sitush (talk) 13:43, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Catholic church

hello,

in case you are interested in Catholic churches, ping me on my talk page. Regards.--♫GoP♫_T^C_N 17:09, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

What makes you think I might be interested in Catholic churches? I haven't set foot inside one for more than 35 years, except I think for a drunken Midnight Mass one Christmas ages ago ... can't really remember too much about that ... Malleus Fatuorum 20:50, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

You should try going, some time, into a proper monastery-attached church for something like Matins and Lauds sung in Latin. Incredible; no other church experience quite has it. I'm not a great church-goer by any means, but there's something really hauntingly timeless about that. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 21:04, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

I have, many times. As an adolescent in Scotland there were two monasteries close to the village where I lived, and I was even an altar boy for one of them. They're actually among my best memories of living in that country; my worst is that we were one of only two Catholic families in the village, and the religious abuse had to be seen to be believed. It got to the point that my sister and I had to leave the village school. A few years later my family moved to England, and the change was just incredible. Nobody seemed to care whether we were Catholic or Protestant, they just took the piss out of our Scottish accents, which I haven't quite managed to lose even to this day. Malleus Fatuorum 21:28, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Magical, isn't it? And don't you dare lost that last bit of Scottish accent! Scottish accents are some of the sexiest around ;P I've gathered from others that religious intolerance in Scotland is pretty fierce stuff, but you're right, here in England we're pretty laid-back about it for the most part. When I was a kid, we used to have some very interesting family dinners over at my Grandmother's house, with some very strange assortments of people (my eccentric high-IQ aunt who worked in MI5 had a number of Cardinals on her friends list, and other family friends included various Anglican high-ups, and one rather fierce atheist ... and there was the SOE chappie ... ). They kept coming back, because the dinners were excellent, but it did mean that I and my siblings had a rather off-beat upbringing! But to get back to churches, I miss the Latin. And the music. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 21:40, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

(edit conflict) I was only a kid when the Church moved from Latin to English, but it was never the same again for me. I thought I'd developed an entirely neutral English accent until one day someone in a class I was teaching asked me where I was from, as they couldn't quite place my accent. I said "guess", and straight away they said "Scotland". I think my tendency to use the word "wee" might have been a clue, and of course there's the ever-present problem of open vs. flat vowels. Is it "grass" as in "ass", or is it "grass" as in ... well you know, how the effete Southerners pronounce it. I tend to flip between the two with uncompromising irregularity. Malleus Fatuorum 21:59, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Scottish accents are some of the sexiest around, are they? Well thanks, I'll bear that in mind, although I prefer English ones. Some, anyway. I gather religious intolerance in Scotland did used to be pretty bad, moreso in the west I think. I'm sorry you have bad memories of living in Scotland, Malleus! We've mellowed out a bit now, I swear. ^OohBunnies! Leave a message :) 21:47, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Arch, the noo, an' it al' fits into place, MF, the noo. If only we had known from the start that what the c-word really meant, all this silly ArbComCiviltyNonsense could have been so easily avoided. In fact, in a Scottish accent, the c-word is almost a compliment, d'y ken tbe noo? Sigmund would have been so proud. Just lie back on that fu**ing couch. ya nippet bampot!! 109.153.195.157 (talk) 22:04, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Ooh, Bunnies! (>**)> Hugzies :o) I just got inspired to add a few bits to an article - wow! I can expand that article, if I'm allowed to use primary sources .... heh! Pesky (talk …stalk!) 21:58, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

The grass thing - if you go halfway house between ass and arse you end up with a kinda New Foresty accent. Like saying "'aystaaack" for "haystack", etc. The West Country has it, more so. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 22:03, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

I was living in the west of Scotland, in Ayrshire, and it was pretty unbelievable by today's standards. Malleus Fatuorum 22:05, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Ooh, Ayrshire! At least the countryside there isn't too bad. :) But the whole Protestant/Catholic malarkey used to be pretty horrendous. To compare it to how it is more recently, I went to a Catholic school (although I'm not religious) and, well, no one seemed to give a damn. A better attitude, I think. These days, people don't even bat an eye when the Orange Walk comes to town, except to complain about traffic being held up, naturally. ^OohBunnies! Leave a message :) 22:10, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Ayrshire's pretty. Not as fantabulous as the bits around Crieff, but pretty. Proper church music, the old stuff, in the Latin, is gorgeous. From the Mozart Missa Brevis to the Fauré Requiem; all emotion-inducing stuff. But the bestest, bestest bit of Scotland has to be on Islay where Laphroaig is made ;P Pesky (talk …stalk!) 22:22, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Ayrshire has something far beyond the reach of church music, the Electric Brae. I was fascinated by that as a kid, and still am. Malleus Fatuorum 22:39, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Fascinating! And that article could really make good use of a video. Maybe you should go back there some time and produce one? Pesky (talk …stalk!) 22:48, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

This one might work: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-L3JMk7C1A SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:52, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

I love that film! And the production on that number, apparently (or so I'm told) cost more than the rest of the film put together. Best line of the film: "Pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space, coz there's bugger-all down here on Earth". Pesky (talk …stalk!) 22:58, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm a great Monty Python fan, but here's a video of the Electric Brae. Malleus Fatuorum 23:02, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Weird-looking place! Bet it's even more weird on a bike. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 23:05, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

It is, it's a really weird feeling having to pedal hard to go downhill. And the best part of it was that it's on the road to Girvan, where even we kids were allowed to drive motor boats around the lake. A day out at Dunure, the Electric Brae and Girvan, followed by a service at Dankeith or Coodham is just about as close to Heaven as anyone has a right to expect ... dang, they both seem to be red links. Malleus Fatuorum 23:42, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Nice little project for someone there ;P Pesky (talk …stalk!) 08:07, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

• I wonder if you would help improving the prose quality of Cathedral of the Immaculate Conception of the Holy Virgin Mary, as it failed the GAN due to such reasons. If I am not mistaken, you review articles at GAN pretty often, or maybe I am confusing you with someone :P. Regards.♫GoP♫_T^C_N 16:41, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

• I used to, but haven't done for a while now. Malleus Fatuorum 16:51, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Try GiacomoReturned - that looks like one he might like. 209.137.146.50 (talk) 17:32, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

• Thanks! :) --♫GoP♫_T^C_N 13:30, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Hi mate

Greetings Malleus. I am very happy to see you here more often now. :D I hope staying way from here for a few days did you good. This place (or should I say some people are) is really unfair to you. Malleus, please take a look at this article's lead when you have time. I hope we can have a nice chat very soon. Take care. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 13:02, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

I hope Beyoncé is paying you well for all your hard work Jivesh. ;-) Malleus Fatuorum 14:06, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Lol, I don't get paid but I am happy her label notice and mention my work. See this (practically a copy-paste of End of Time (song) - second paragraph of lead]) and read this one. Malleus, I really love this woman... when I write for her, I do it with immense love and dedication. I feel like I am doing what I want, something I will never regret. Lol. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 15:07, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

I feel a bit like that about this woman, although perhaps for different reasons. Malleus Fatuorum 15:19, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

She is pretty. May I know your reasons? ;) Jivesh1205 (Talk) 15:20, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Not to put too fine a point on it, basically she's sex on a stick. And she's built on rather an ambitious scale. Here's a taster for you. Malleus Fatuorum 15:24, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

I can't believe is is above 50. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 15:29, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Ageist !! SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:49, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Is it sexist to say that she's sex on a stick, even if she is? I'm sure she'd take it as a compliment anyway. Malleus Fatuorum 15:54, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Since that's what she's selling, I don't think so. But if I ate like that, I'd be big as a house. Doesn't work-- kinda like when HGTV filmed my house and claimed "anyone can do this in a day", although they were in there for two weeks. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:20, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Malleus has great taste..♦ Dr. Blofeld 15:47, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

He really does. But I still prefer my woman. :)) Jivesh1205 (Talk) 15:52, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

I know, and she wants it luscious and smooth....and can still feel the butter on her fingers - it's too much to bear I need a shower. Giacomo Returned 15:50, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

The most desirable woman in Sweden (according to recent votes) was this Swedish chef—not to be confused with The Swedish Chef.  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 16:13, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

The weird thing about that video clip is that despite knowing no Swedish at all I felt like I understood what she was saying. Malleus Fatuorum 01:38, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Vivacious Swedish chef Tina Nordström promoted her show by bantering with Gordon Ramsey, with (dull) dick jokes to get tabloid headlines.  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 19:58, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

False advertising, she did NOT teach me how to prepare a three-course meal in under half an hour. I got the "how to look like that before my guest arrive" part down already. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:04, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Does the phrase "posh totty" mean anything to you Sandy? Malleus Fatuorum 16:11, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

What's a willie? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:17, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

It's an ... err ... um ... thingie that ... well, you know. Next question. Malleus Fatuorum 16:20, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

OK, got it. I live in a place now where carrying a Prada bag makes one the devil, so ... SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:22, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

I guess you might have to make do with just being "totty" in public then, and keep the "posh" bit for your other half. Malleus Fatuorum 16:32, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Why he's a right bit of a totty, mate! SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:43, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

See, you're getting the hang of it now. Only problem is, I imagine you saying it in Dick Van Dyke's excruciatingly bad attempt at an English accent in Mary Poppins. Promise me you'll never say anything like that out loud. Malleus Fatuorum 16:53, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Not to worry, my dear; I have much better phrases for those purposes! Totty indeed ... SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:26, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Ms Georgia (Southern tottie)

My granddaughter, the Hon Urusline Starborgling-Scrotum-Bonquebustiere (rather more refined tottie)

* Tsk, tsk, copyvio since 2007

** I don't think it surprises anyone to see you so jelous of darlingest Ursaline; people often mistake us for sisters.

*** Your ladyship, it has been rumoured that you are a dead ringer for this Duchess

****I can't be bothered to click on your silly links, but you are going to be very sorry when my forthcoming RFA succeeds. Malleus darling would you mind nominating me toute-de-suite. I feel the corps des administrateurs need more people just like me.

Oh Mr Fatuorum, if it's "posh totty" that you want, put down that frightful Ms Georgia, and look no further. I am here and all yours. Catherine Rollbacker de Burgh (Lady) (talk) 17:17, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

That frightful Ms Georgia has been asking you to stop damaging her reputation with non-posh images of unwaxed eyebrows for several years. Perhaps our Lady is trying to create an unfair and decidedly un-British competition, because she knows the southern belle will prevail in a fair competition. If you keep this up, I'll be requesting a site-wide banner. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:31, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

I have it on reliable authority that Ms Georgia's arse is one of the wonders of the modern world, a World Heritage site no less. Not sure about that waxed eyebrow thing though ... seems a bit unnatural. Malleus Fatuorum 17:50, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

I can well beleive that of Mr Georgia; there are carthorses and racehorses and who is to say which is the most useful, but I give you two images (I am completelt unbiased) over wich is the most desirable. Catherine Rollbacker de Burgh (Lady) (talk) 18:12, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Relying now on our granddaughter, are we? Perhaps I won't need the site-wide banner. Malleus, my arse may be a wonder, but you make it sound positively ancient.

And speaking of wonders, could this be the fundament of her ladyship? (I hasten to add that I use the term lady loosely, considering your disreputable heritage.) At least it may be an explanation for not one, but two WMF employees planning a junket to Brasil. How nice! Warning: a reserved posh tottie like Malleus himself may get the vapors if he watches this video. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:55, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Your ladyship, before your RFA is launched, I want to ask that you state your age for the record. I'm sure you are entirely too old for adminship 'round these parts. We like 'em young. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:48, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

I think her ladyship's sensitivity to sunlight might be a clue, but there's no policy that says the nosferatu can't be administrators. Malleus Fatuorum 01:23, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

I think you are all missing the point in idly speculating on my age. Tomorrow, in case you have all forgotten is Black Sunday! The day when sentence is passed upon poor dear Malleus; so it would be a good idea if I am an Administrateur by then so that I can unblock him. I think I would be very good at it; I have a very perceptive mind. I should have accepted Mrs Bishonen's tools when she was begging me to take them. However, my great perception also leads me to beleive that those nincompoop arbs have still not made their silly minds up - I would not be surprised if they are not all Liberal Democrats - and we all know where that leads one. Catherine Rollbacker de Burgh (Lady) (talk) 10:21, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

• Milady, now you're speaking my languge; I may have picked the wrong posh totty. Is your nephew about? The last time we had a soiree on the slopes, I fear I didn't quite pay him enough mind. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 14:12, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Eh, when I were a lass, and flint-knapping were t'trade to be in ... Pesky (talk …stalk!) 12:34, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

• Oh I do so admire a remarkable memory, you must be very proud it Mrs Pesky. Funnily enough my nephew is about and working on this case as we speak. I think you will find that once we all know exactly where we are, he will have quite a lot to say and "post." in the meantime, has anyone offered the condemned man a last supper; I would do myself, but naturally those in my station have never learnt to cook, but I'm sure Ms Georgia and Mrs Pesky are more than acomplished downstairs. Catherine Rollbacker de Burgh (Lady) (talk) 19:34, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

• I've no time for cooking, Milady; it's hard to get good help above the equator, I left my cook behind with the last lesser half, and the new posh totty has a decidedly NorthAmerican taste in food. Last suppers are apparently being cooked elswhere. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:39, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

• I may be only a Pesky Commoner, but even aristocrats can be Commoners around here! I'm afraid to say I can (through the distaff line) trace my ancestry back to at least one unpleasant turncoat. Oops. And I'm probably more accomplished upstairs than down, despite being quite good in the kitchen. Or the snooker room. Or – no, that's right, the chandelier broke ... [Pesky chortles wickedly] Pesky (talk …stalk!) 20:06, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

• I thought sentencing was scheduled for today ... have I been awakened too soon? Malleus Fatuorum 21:44, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

My money's on the "bitten off more than they can chew" version. Nortonius (talk) 22:03, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

My money is on that it's only 12.05am this morning in La-la land. Giacomo Returned 22:35, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

It's time they woke up then! Sorry, was that unicivil? Nortonius (talk) 22:49, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Depends on whether one of the block-happy admins reads it before one of the sane ones does. Malleus Fatuorum 22:51, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Battle lines seem to be being drawn all over Wikipedia recently, so I think the best that ArbCom can hope for is that they don't create one more. Malleus Fatuorum 22:49, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

• What's the time in La-la Land now? Malleus Fatuorum 01:43, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

He's just a poor boy from a poor family. Spare him his life from this monstrosity!

Even Southern Governors are granting reprieves. Let us hope that ArbCom is merciful.

Otherwise, Don't give up hope: We can ask for DNA tests, for a mistrial, for an appeal, ....  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 23:11, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm not looking for a reprieve, only equal treatment for all, admin or non-admin. Any pronouncement that fails to recognise that will be completely unacceptable. Malleus Fatuorum 23:15, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

You are absolutely right. "Reprieve" was suggested by the change that Southern governors no longer barbecue prisoners to avoid being "out Willie-Hortoned", a nasty phrase well glossed by Christopher Hitchens. A recognition of your contributions and role would be just, and equal treatment is a minimal expectation.  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 23:24, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Thank You...

		*****************The Beyoncé Knowles WikiProject Thanks You*****************
		I, Jivesh, thank you wholeheartedly for your much appreciated help and copy-edits on "Halo", which is now an FA. Your kind and encouraging words helped me even more (morally). May God bless both you and the day I came across a kind and helpful person like you on Wikipedia. -> Jivesh1205 (Talk) 04:40, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Well done. You're obviously getting the hang of this FAC lark now. Malleus Fatuorum 17:48, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

And it's all thanks to you. For this, I will always be grateful to you. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 17:52, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

You give me too much credit Jivesh, but you're a testament that the lie about me chasing off other editors is simply that, a lie. And I find it deeply shocking that a WMF employee such as Kaldari would be party to such a lie. Malleus Fatuorum 22:58, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Malleus, you are too bootylicious for Wikipedia. ;)  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 23:03, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

True, Wikipedia doesn't deserve me and obviously can't deal with me. I have a couple of my own writing projects on the go this year, so if I'm banned I'll get them to market sooner without the distractions of this place. So not really any kind of a punishment. Malleus Fatuorum 23:11, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

And you know Malleus, I do it with my heart because you truly deserve it. And frankly, feel i don't do enough. You deserve much more. You opened so many doors for me. And why worry about them? They are always pressed. (I don't know what this word means but I saw it being used on a forum). Those editors cannot handle your honesty and hard work. Lol. Malleus, whenever possible please don't forget to take a look at "Broken-Hearted Girl". Remember I asked you about its lead? Jivesh1205 (Talk) 04:34, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

I see someone else is having a go at you? Shouldn't he/she be blocked for using those words? I mean he was practically attacking you. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 15:31, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

You're a silver-tongued charmer Jivesh. But my position on blocks may surprise you; I think that blocks should only be used in the most extreme of circumstances such as persistent racial or sexual abuse, not for a straightforward "fuck you", which no sane person ought to give a damn about. As I say further down this page, treating editors like naughty children infantilises us all. Malleus Fatuorum 15:53, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Silver-tongued? Lol. what is that? Malleus, did you know I was blocked three times when I was new here? Once I was blocked for six months. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 16:02, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

I can't see a six-month block,[13] was that under a different username? What were you vandalising that resulted in your last two blocks? Malleus Fatuorum 16:11, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Oops. It was three months. Lol. Hmm, ... I was not vandalizing. I did not understand that I had to source my contributions to Wikipedia. :D Jivesh1205 (Talk) 16:17, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

So you were blocked twice for a week for not providing citations? Malleus Fatuorum 16:24, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Twice for a week and once for 3 months. Lol. This is not a joke. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 17:17, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

I wrote this. :P Jivesh1205 (Talk) 17:33, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Record jury deliberation ...

Although I realise it is a silly situation to find the deadline gone and no word from anyone, I thought we might be amused by these RL snippets of jurors, who also perhaps wished they hadn't been "chosen": Longest criminal jury deliberation (UK) and (US). My favourite sentence is that last one in the US story ... Chaosdruid (talk) 13:25, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

What happened to "Choker"? Is he still on the run? Ning-ning (talk) 14:10, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Oakland city attorney John Russo confirms in this video (3:48—3:54) on 4 February 2009 that "the alleged leader of the 'Riders' [Francisco] Frank Vazquez fled the country to avoid prosecution and to this day is still on the lam" --Senra (talk) 16:35, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

• In any intelligent, normal civilised judicuary, if the verdict were delayed because of absent judges one would just assume (with some justification) that they had all gone racing, hunting or shooting. However, on Wikipdia one assumes thay have gone on a convention to support one legged, black lesbians or over-educated heterosexual women so hideously ugly and sensitive that they are unable to find a husband. Failing that, the rights of men with no penises to father children and take French classes. Heaven forbid that they should actually spend 10 minutes asking themselves why on earth thay accepted this stupid, naive and ridiculous case - destined only to bring them (not Malleus) into disrepute before they had even started the job. Giacomo Returned 18:53, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

• Are you implying that going hunting is a better reason for being absent than supporting one legged, black lesbians? :) --Conti|✉ 19:10, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
• Giacomo, since we're on Malleus' talk page (a well-known free-speech zone with vague boundaries), can I just say that your joke really isn't funny? Jesus! MF, sorry for pontificating in your user space. Drmies (talk) 19:31, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
• Joke? Many of my best friends belong to minority groups and all are very worthy. I merely point out the difference between Wikipedia's judiciary and those of other places. Giacomo Returned 21:17, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Everybody is in a minority group of one. Even identical twins. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 21:46, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Unfortunately, the folks spouting that sexist nonsense about black one-legged lesbians, or the offensive bullshit about ugly women (who all of a sudden also happen to be straight) who can't get married are still in a majority in many parts of the world. They populate freshman classes, mostly; it doesn't even rise to the level of sophomoric. Drmies (talk) 22:39, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

"of"

Every time I listen to the radio, when I hear someone say "the x of y", I mentally change it to "y's x". I blame you for this, as I'm sure it's one day going to send me to Prestwich Hospital. Parrot of Doom 08:43, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

You need to relax with a nice tea's cup. Ning-ning (talk) 09:06, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

…but if you do end up in hospital, I'm sure MF will bring you a grapes' bunch. Ning-ning (talk) 09:25, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Not in all cases PoD. Consider 'the book of Job' which, incidentally, may be an apt reflection on the sufferings of Malleus Malleus' suffering here --Senra (talk) 11:24, 31 January 2012 (UTC)