User talk:Blackmetalbaz/Archive

The Dark Legions Archive

I know you hate ANUS.com, as is evidenced by your fanaticism for deleting our page and any references to it. However, we are the oldest and longest-running metal site on the net, and are recognized by authorities within metal, so please reconsider your stance. death metal maniac (talk) 16:21, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

A somewhat bizarre comment to receive. I do not hate anus.com, nor have I been fanatical about deleting references. to it. It is however no authority on the subject of metal, as demonstrated by an absence of reliable, third party sources referring to it and no content from the site being published by an independent, commercial body. Until one of these things happen, anus.com should not be used as a source on Wikipedia. Sorry. I suggest you re-read the likes of WP:N and WP:RS. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 17:03, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

I believe you're incorrect. Here's a list of publications: ANUS media mentions and you may also want to notice the attention we receive from metal musicians Interviews.death metal maniac (talk) 19:27, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

I believe the phrase is "Epic Fail". No non-trivial coverage in third-party sources, hence zero notability. "Cites" are obviously trivial, and interviews with bands would equally apply to any other webzine. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 10:42, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

I believe you're totally off your rocker. We're the longest-running underground metal site as recognized by the community, and entirely non-commercial. The citations in that page are far from trivial. Why the bias? I figured when you campaigned hard to remove the ANUS.com entry, you were biased, but now I see how fanatical you are. Not cool. 24.206.152.60 (talk) 19:24, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

I'm "totally off my rocker"? If you believe so, fair enough, but please read WP:CIVIL. I also (some time after the event) saw that you (or someone closely associated with you) suggested that I was promoting "Nazi black metal" whilst persuing the deletion of your article at the ANUS Deletion Review (which endorsed deletion). This is far from the truth. I have no sympathies with NSBM, although some bands of that ilk remain notable, whilst ANUS.com does not... unless you can provide non-trivial sources to demonstrate otherwise. When those sources appear, I will do my best to help you make a decent Wikipedia article for your website. Finally (and, I confess, a little pedantically), could you please sign your posts with four tildes, so I can keep a track of who I am talking to. Cheers. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 20:14, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Myrkskog

Hey buddy, i just unidid parts of your edits on myrkskog. i just wanted to let you know i spoke to secthdamon on myspace and he said myrkskog broke up in 2003. but i admit, the reasoning behind the split, was a presumption of mine im sorry. but i just wanted to tell you that myrkskog are no longer active. cheers mate! User:Megastrike14 xx —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.0.233.141 (talk) 12:44, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

December 2007

Welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to make constructive contributions to Wikipedia, at least one of your recent edits, such as the one you made to Adrian Erlandsson, did not appear to be constructive and has been reverted or removed. Please use the sandbox for any test edits you would like to make, and take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Thank you. Alexfusco⁵ 02:26, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Welcome to Wikipedia. It might not have been your intention, but your recent edit removed content from Valley of Decapitated Horses. When removing text, please specify a reason in the edit summary and discuss edits that are likely to be controversial on the article's talk page. If this was a mistake, don't worry; the text has been restored, as you can see from the page history. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia, and if you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. Thank you. Closedmouth (talk) 06:39, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Metal-archives

Metal archives might not be the best source (a book would be), but it is a source that can be used for a niche genre. Unlike you said, metal-archives is not as open as a wiki, all changes are done through change requests that are checked thoroughly before they are applied. Deleting the sources isn't doing any good for anyone (I even asked about metal archives on the WP metal project and it seems to be an accepted source). Since the sources are in the article it is a more stable and reliable list.

There is no statement on WP implying MA can never be used as source. It is in fact a peer reviewed site with editorial oversight (2 things a questionable source has not, according to WP:VER). No ordinary user can edit genres on MA, only about 20 moderators can (out of 84000+ contributors). The moderator's policy is to be careful with genres, to thoroughly check them and to keep them up-to-date. I can't find any policy or guideline on WP stating these kind of sites are unreliable (Not even WP:V/WP:RS). I don't always agree with their genres, they're not always correct, just like the genres on rockdetector, allmusic or whatever third party site. Kameejl ^(Talk) 19:35, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Response

I was wondering if you could respond to this. Inhumer (talk) 01:02, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Rofl, I forgot the link, Category talk:Grindcore groups. Sorry about that. Inhumer (talk) 02:18, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Do you have any sources for Iskra or Dystopia being Grind?Inhumer (talk) 18:48, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

I reread it, it does sound POV. Inhumer (talk) 00:04, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

When it comes to genres, myspace isn't really a reliable source.Inhumer (talk) 03:32, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

You know, I don't think we could find one, though I do have a source for the pv article in general.Inhumer (talk) 01:32, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Here it is Inhumer (talk) 01:33, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

I think it should also be redone, anons made a compete mess out of itInhumer (talk) 01:35, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

I'm gonna continue looking for more sources for PV. Inhumer (talk) 17:20, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Interviews with Eric Woods(Member of Man Is The Bastard.) [1] [2] Not much, but something.Inhumer (talk) 21:35, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Re:LLN

I think the label releases are sufficient to establish the group's notability, so I don't feel too bad about removing the tag. However, you should note that I was helping your case in reverting. Chubbles (talk) 18:14, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, sorry about that... I deleted the comment on your talk page as soon as I'd posted it! Case of me not reading thoroughly and being over-tired. Sorry! As it happens I also think the whole LLN thing is notable, but the problem is that as a scene it is almost by definition unsourcable (interesting in and of itself, but clearly a problem). Any apologies once again for the misunderstanding! Blackmetalbaz (talk) 19:53, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

I would say it's pretty reasonable that not all of those groups have their own articles; some of them are most likely hopelessly obscure, but if they nevertheless have a connection to the scene, I think it would be destructive to blackball them from the list. It's the same principle one would use for a record label; the label's page should have a comprehensive list of bands that have released material, even if some of those bands do not, or will never, have their own page. That said, it'd probably be worth de-linking the redlinks. Chubbles (talk) 01:44, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Oh, I totally agree, but do they in fact exist? Blackmetalbaz (talk) 01:46, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Are there some which appear to be nonexistent? I haven't gone through the list... Chubbles (talk) 01:48, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Cool, I'll do the same tomorrow. I'll also go through and probably weedle out ones that haven't actually released anything. Cheers for the help! Blackmetalbaz (talk) 02:04, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Just running a Google search on the first five or six, a bunch of them have thousands of Ghits and reviews on metal webzines. Some of them only rate about 8 Ghits, but most of the list comes up on this forum post discography: [3] Nothing close to a reliable source, but perhaps worth investigating as a benchmark. I guess anything that's only pulling 8 Ghits can probably be removed. Chubbles (talk) 01:53, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Here's a litle something to help you out :

Welcome!

Hello, Blackmetalbaz, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

• The five pillars of Wikipedia
• Tutorial
• How to edit a page
• How to write a great article
• Manual of Style

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{helpme}} before the question. Again, welcome! 69.210.245.152 (talk) 00:57, 16 January 2008 (UTC)Mooncrest

Re: Les Legions Noires

Well, my rule of thumb is always "if it's notable, then it shouldn't be too hard to find sources for it". Although they may exist, if they are lacking many sources some editors on Wikipedia may not be in agreement about it's notability. I must ask though, why is it, "almost by definition, impossible to get hold of reliable sources", as you stated? ≈ The Haunted Angel 00:59, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, this sounds rather tricky. To be honest mate, I'm not sure how I'd go about doing this... I presume somewhere there would be a site about them, even if not anything official, but I'm afraid that's all I could suggest - this does indeed sound like something difficult to source. ≈ The Haunted Angel 01:24, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

LLN

Well, let's consider some things here. The article also has entries in French and Dutch; the bands listed appear on at least four different notable labels. This says to me that, at the very least, the subject itself is notable. Which means that I seriously question the utility of an AfD; it would be self-destructive to delete an article that clearly deals with a notable topic. I haven't made any attempts to source the article. There are clearly some rumor-mongering statements that can and should be removed from the page; however, clearing it out entirely is basically tantamount to removing all of the claims that the page has to notability anyway. I'd rather not see it AfD'd - underground metal has enough trouble establishing its legitimacy on this site as it is - but it'd certainly make sense to take a careful razor to the more outlandish statements. Chubbles (talk) 01:14, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, well, there goes that. Chubbles (talk) 01:16, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Daughters and DEP

Sourced where? I'll provide my own sources. Let's do this. 24.90.176.253 (talk) 18:05, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

The sources are already listed on the articles' discussion pages. I'm not disputing that these bands could also be listed as mathcore, and indeed believe that this should be what is present in their infoboxes. I can provide sources myself perfectly well to demonstrate this. Your apparent problem is that you do not believe bands should be listed under multiple categories. This however is not only incorrect but facetious in the extreme. However, should you be able to provide a reliable source stating that these bands cannot be considered grindcore to any degree, then cite them and we can mention this interesting contradiction within the body of the article. Should you be confused as to what constitutes a reliable source for such discussions, a book or commercially published music magazine would be appropriate. If in the mean time you revert any my edit to add these bands to the Grindcore category, it will constitute vandalism, for which you have been warned once already. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 22:25, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

I should mention by the way that for now I am assuming good faith and that your misunderstanding is that bands can belong to multiple categories. This is of course untrue. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 22:32, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Immortal caption correction

Hey, thanks for correcting my wrong caption. I don't know what on Earth possessed me to make me see the "new" logo on Pure Holocaust cover. Uzyel (talk) 18:49, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Regarding the "Death 'n' Roll" article

• First: There's a discussion page on that article where we talk (and negotiate) the changes made to it.

• Second: and what about this "unreferenced" template? Are you sure about that? Or did you happen to miss the 38 references on the bottom of the article?

• Third: yes, there are "unverified claims" on this page. And why? I haven't posted the references to back 'em up (lack of time) - that's why. But, beyond that... "original research"? Please point that out to me.

• Fourth: instead of promptly wiping away anything unsourced, why don't sit back and wait? This article is obviously going through heavy revision, and blanking is considered vandalism.

I would ask you to please, refrain making edits of that nature for the time being... And no, this is not an ownership issue - I just want the proper time to finish my edits.

Musicaindustrial (talk) 12:33, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

I'll start my reply by adressing this:

• "...many of the so-called references..."
• "...are in fact blatant original research."
• "...with a misleading reference tag...".
• "...and, cardinal sin, making the statement..."

What's up with that belligerent tone? I've already had my fair share of dealing with frustrated, teenage Wikipedia editors, venting off their inferiority complexes by the way of internet trolling. You're not one of those, are you? Don't be.

I also have to adress this:

• "Finally, you are correct that blanking a page would constitute vandalism. Removing inappropriate content is not."

I'm sorry to say this, but that's not a good argument. You're probably rationalizing your blanking. And - please - drop the whole self-righteous, self-appointed "guardian of Wikipedia" bit. The road to hell is paved with "good" intentions, my friend. For all your talk about sticking to Wikipedia policies, just a quick scan on your user talk page reveals that you've done your share of mistakes and abusive edits - just like the rest of us. I'll ask you to be more careful the next time we talk.

I'll also ask you if our future communication could be conducted exclusively over the Talk:Death 'n' Roll page, regarding the current issue.

Thanks in advance. Musicaindustrial (talk) 12:46, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Slipknot Wikiproject

Hey what's up? I realised that you have editted Slipknot related articles before and I was wondering if you would be interested in joining the Slipknot Wikiproject. The project aims to develop all Slipknot articles to create reliable, high quality articles. If you would to join, simply list yourself i nthe participants list on the project page. REZTER ^TALK ø 11:21, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Heavy metal fashion

What do you think of this article? I think it is incredibly shitty. I put it up for deletion. If you agree (or disagree by some chance) with my reasoning cast your vote, please. Blizzard Beast ^$ODIN$ 23:48, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Robin Eaglestone C.O.F joining date

Hi Baz Just clocked your last edit on that page Ive been keeping an eye on that one too! I have here two C.O.F demo's ("Invoking The Unclean" and "Total Fucking Darkness") both with full original inlays dated 1992 and both crediting "Rob" I understand he first joined as a 2nd guitarist during the "invoking the unclean" era before switching to bass for the T.F.D demo which was recorded during the winter of 92 also. That said I will make a small edit to rectify this info. --Ladylust (talk) 03:08, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

I think some of the problem is that these early C.O.F tapes are so rare and this incorrect info has been in the public domain with out being challenged for so long now that ,this its self becomes the source for all further verification . You cant even trust what high street magazines or biography books print these days.--Ladylust (talk) 22:32, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

RE: March 2008

Resolved

Um, you just tagged my talk page with a vandalism notice concerning the Matt Heafy page. To the best of my knowledge I have corrected the spelling of his band Capharnaum (you have mistakenly changed it back to Capaharnaum) and removed the clear vandalism relating to Heafy's love of 'gay anal sex'. You appear to have simply restored this vandalism. So, sorry: Please stop. If you continue to vandalize Wikipedia, as you did to Matt Heafy, you will be blocked from editing. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 15:33, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Adding "ilike eggs" doesn't seem very constructive to me.... StaticGull  Talk  15:38, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

If you had bothered to check the edit history before slapping me down: [4]. You'll notice I was in the process if reverting a series of minor vandalisms. You however are simply being unhelpful. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 15:44, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Next time try to add an edit summary. StaticGull  Talk  16:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Greif page

Greetings. I just wanted to mention that the whole Greif page was struck by an admin who is in the midst of rebuilding it with citations. This was after a COI action that has been working itself out. If I could ask you to hold off on a request for deletion until all of the relevant information, if reliable and sourced, is inserted, it would be appreciated. If after a short time this isn't the case, then go ahead...Thanks, A Sniper (talk) 21:46, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

No worries mate. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 21:50, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Cheers. I've followed some of your edits at death metal and chuck schuldiner, by the way, and they're spot on. Best, A Sniper (talk) 21:55, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Metalcore#Attention_to_all:_New_Wave_of_American_Heavy_Metal

Hey, what's your opinon on this matter? Please share at the link. Blizzard Beast ^$ODIN$ 22:20, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Dani Filth

Hi;

Regarding this edit, I disagree that a category of one is necessarily pointless. For example, including him in this category brings him into the overall classification scheme of Category:English people by religion, not to mention Category:British people by religion. I also doubt that he is the only notable English Luciferian in history, so the category is now established and can be used in the future. (One article always has to be the first one added to a category.)

In any case, this category clearly applies to Dani Filth, so if you still feel the category is pointless, the answer would not be to delete the category from the article but rather to propose a WP:CFD for the category itself. Thanks! Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 08:06, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Metal#Genre delimiters

You're invited to the above. --Bardin (talk) 06:37, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Doubts about Restructuring the Sepultura Article

As you know, I was planning to restructure Sepultura's biography by telling their history through the group's albums. My model was the Nine Inch Nails article.

I've recently revisited the NIN page and found out that they traded the album images for group and music video shots. That solution avoids the "fair use rationale" image problem and keeps the proposed biography structure intact. I could do the same with the Sepultura page; I have their official biography, which has loads of exclusive photos that I could scan.

My question is: how do I upload these images within Wikipedia's media copyright protocols? Musicaindustrial (talk) 12:03, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

I think that sounds like an excellent idea. I need to pop out for a bit but I'll look into that later this afternoon! Blackmetalbaz (talk) 12:24, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

List of death metal bands

Hey, you said in an edit summary that "leave your POV out of it; sources are in abundance" and removed "on occasion" next to In Flames. I just wanted to tell you that wasn't me! I made two edits at nearly the same time and I guess I got them confused because my first edit was meant to remove the "on occasio" next to In Flames, hence my edit summary, "unneccesary;this is a list of bands who played dm ANY time in career." But with the second edit I removed a metalcore band and I think since I tried to do the edits at the same time, I accidentally added the "on occasion" back in. My bad. I'd just hate for you to think I'm that kind of editor that puts irrelevant crap like that in to an article. I'm better than that, heh. Blizzard Beast ^$ODIN$ 21:26, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Nah, don't worry about it. I do that sort of thing by accident all the time as well. Course I know you're better than that ;-) Blackmetalbaz (talk) 15:59, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. Blizzard Beast ^$ODIN$ 22:58, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Question

I wanted to ask you a question, since you're a fan of heavy metal. Me and another user have been having some problems on the Shadows Fall page. I'm not a fan of their music but I noticed that someone had put thrash metal as one of their genres and I immediately changed it to metalcore, as I believe that is the style of music they play. Now the other editor didn't agree with this and we had a little edit war. Well now I want to gather some consensus on it so we can resolve the issue. If you go here you may vote on what genre(s) you think Shadows Fall has played. Thanks. Blizzard Beast ^$ODIN$ 19:52, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Also, if you need any help with anything feel free to let me know. Blizzard Beast ^$ODIN$ 19:52, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Apocalyptic Raids

Greetings... I've made some mild improvements on the Apocalyptic Raids 1990 A.D. article. It still hasn't a picture, but some sort of quality accessment about it could be interesting. Would you be willing to that? Musicaindustrial (talk) 12:56, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Also, check out the original Apocalyptic Raids article. Musicaindustrial (talk) 13:12, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Re: Citations

You asked about a month ago how to "go about condensing all the references from a single source to a single line in the ref list". I've recently discovered how.

An example: the liner notes of the self-titled compilation from Entombed:

<ref>{{cite album-notes|title= Entombed|albumlink= Entombed (album)|bandname= [[Entombed (band)|Entombed]]|year= 1996|notestitle=|url=|first=Dan|last=Tobin|pages=p. 4|format=CD booklet|publisher= [[Earache Records]]|location= [[New York City|New York]], [[NY]]}}</ref>

Now, the multiple footnote version would be something like that:

<ref name= anynameyouwant>{{cite album-notes|title= Entombed|albumlink= Entombed (album)|bandname= [[Entombed (band)|Entombed]]|year= 1996|notestitle=|url=|first=Dan|last=Tobin|pages=p. 4|format=CD booklet|publisher= [[Earache Records]]|location= [[New York City|New York]], [[NY]]}}</ref>

Note how the initial "<ref>" name changes?

Capicce? Musicaindustrial (talk) 11:50, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Oh crap. Genre delimiters!

Hey, what's up? We got problems! During my absence I see that line breaks have seemingly become more popular for metal bands (at least). That's fine but look at the Template:Infobox Musical artist. Someone recently changed it while I was gone. It now has both infoboxes with comma breaks! That doesn't even make sense, to have two infoboxes that are the same. One is supposed to have comma breaks and the other line breaks. This means trouble. Blizzard Beast ^$ODIN$ 16:49, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

NWOAHM

I was wondering what you thought of something. The New Wave of American Heavy Metal. Do you believe it exists or not? I personally, do not. I think it's the same thing as metalcore which is where it used to redirect. User:Lykantrop sees otherwise and created the article which I am now contemplating deleting. I have made many of my arguements here on the "NWOAHM" talk page and made even more on the talk page of metalcore in the section about this "NWOAHM." I think it does not exist for many reasons and per WP:NEO and pure logic it should be deleted. Tell me what you think. If you need to here some of my arguments for why it doesn't exist feel free to ask and I'll deliver a pile of 'em. Blizzard Beast ^$ODIN$ 17:00, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Sepultura's "Arise"

The Arise (album) article is now listed as a good article. Thought you should know. Musicaindustrial (talk) 11:24, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

That's awesome mate. Well done! Blackmetalbaz (talk) 11:29, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Possible AfD

Your comment here was spot on. I almost went to WP:DRV after the first AfD, but I figured I'd give it some time for cites to non-trivial coverage by reliable sources to show up. Obviously, none did, and it's been over six months. — Satori Son 21:32, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Re: Grindcore

Greetings, mate! I spent about six months tracking that Spin mag on Ebay... I was one happy bastard when I found it! And yes I can scan it, no problem.

There is only a slight setback: its format is close to the A3 paper size instead of your regular A4, so it may take a little longer to send it to you (I would scan it in parts and then reassemble the article in a .pdf file). But if you're in a rush, I can send a back & white version of it (I had the article xeroxed for my music file in A4 format). Tell me what you prefer and I'll be glad to send it.

Cheers, Zé Felipe a.k.a. Musicaindustrial (talk) 20:09, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

No rush, buddy. Whatever is easiest for you! Cheers for getting back to me. Baz. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 01:46, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Ok, here's the link: [5]. Musicaindustrial (talk) 18:44, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks a lot! Blackmetalbaz (talk) 18:50, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Arise's rating in Wikipedia's importance

Hey, do you know someone who can rate Arise on the two importance scales? There are two ratings currently missing - one of the WikiProject Albums and the other one is the WikiProject Metal. Thanks!

Musicaindustrial (talk) 14:41, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Ps: I'm going to scan the Spin article this afternoon...

Is this what you're looking for? WikiProject Metal assessment page It's not something I've looked into before... Blackmetalbaz (talk) 14:52, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

I've been to this page... But there's another one where you can insert the article on a type of assessment list, and the people of that specific project take a look at it and rate this article's importance. Arise (album) has been rated already for the WikiProject Brazil, for example. Musicaindustrial (talk) 18:50, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Carcariass page

Hi,

You're the one that added a "notability warning" on top of newly added Carcariass page. Could you please explain what in this page does not meet your expectations regarding this point ? The band has already his page on French wiki here: [6]. They are pionneers of genre technical death metal in France and have their 3d album released on Adipocere Records with an international distribution. They are seen as a cult band. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cglaume (talk • contribs) 11:49, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

At present the page doesn't demonstrate notability and fails WP:BAND. They'd need at least two albums on an important indie label... they have one on Adipocere. They might pass if you can find reliable sources testifying that they've been genuinely influential; I've personally never come across a reference suggesting that Carcariass are pioneers of technical death metal, but they may be out there. Incidentally, the French article looks to be in as bad shape as the English one. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 12:18, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

RE:Unblack

Unblack metal and black metal are two different things. The prefix UN means the opposite. That alone should put it in a different category. Anyway, unblack metal bands have their own list. Frost Like Ashes was the only unblack band on the black metal list until I removed it. Undeath (talk) 20:22, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

No, and no. The addition of "un" doesn't automatically make it a new genre, in the same way that calling your band's style "murder metal" or "heavy funk" makes those separate styles. And for the record, I suggest you look at the pages for Antestor and Horde. At present there is no consistency. I suggest we go with sources such as Sharpe-Young and acknowledge unblack metal to be a subset of black metal, in the absence of any reliable sources that suggest they are in fact as separate as you suggest. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 21:42, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

RE:Condemned

Hello Baz. I see you have recently added a tag to the Condemned_(band) article regarding concerns of the general notability of the article. Please note that this topic has been previously debated (on July 8th 2007) and the conclusion was "keep/no consensus". I refer you directly to this discussion here:

[7]

As this has been previously debated and concluded I shall remove the tag. Thanks. Mojowibble (talk) 14:20, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

But it wasn't concluded! You reached no consensus! I fail to see where WP:MUSIC has been fulfilled. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 23:26, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Hello Baz,

Thanks for taking the time to respond. The band meets the required criteria (where only one criteria is needed to meet notability standards):

It has been the subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent from the musician/ensemble itself and reliable.[1]

See http://www.rundownrecords.co.uk/ an independent label.

Has received non-trivial coverage in a reliable source of an international concert tour, or a national concert tour in at least one sovereign country.[3]

The band toured the UK with Visceral Bleeding and Nailed, this was mentioned in Raw Nerve, Metal Ireland and Zero Tolerance Magazine.

Has become the most prominent representative of a notable style or of the local scene of a city; note that the subject must still meet all ordinary Wikipedia standards, including verifiability.

Prominent repesentatives of a local scene of a city - Belfast, they are the longest running band in Belfast in this scene.

MetalIreland was deemed a reliable source by previous wikipedia editors moderating this article. There are of course other sources mentioned in the article if it does not personally meet your standards.

Thank you for your time. Mojowibble (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 12:59, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Hello again Baz,

Sorry to flounder you with multiple entries on my post here! It just popped into my memory there, I recall Condemned were featured in Terrorizer Magazine as a part of the Northern Ireland scene report a while back.....

Yes, actually, I just checked their site. It's in their news section. I can provide the dates and issue of the magazine and add that to the sources if required. I should probably add some of those sources in for better notability anyway.

I'm working from memory here, as I'm not at home, but I also recall the first time I saw the band live was supporting Napalm Death, where they had won the support position as a competition against many other bands in the country. Would that further verify prominence in the local scene?

I do apologise if the deletion of your notability tag offended you, I had assumed by the time you took to reply that the matter had been dropped, and that the previous debate had concluded the matter.

Thanks, Mojowibble (talk) 13:34, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Not to worry at all mate! I can dig out the Terrorizer coverage (thank you for reminding me about that!) and I've just noticed that Metal Ireland is actually run by Ciaran Tracey, who I think has contributed heavily to either Terrorizer or Zero Tolerance, which probably makes it a reliable source. The page in general is actually pretty well written, just needs some actual citations. If someone could get the Abaddon Incarnate page looking as good, that'd be really handy... I saw Condmened a few years ago at one of the Dungeonfests on Leeds and they were excellent! Blackmetalbaz (talk) 14:03, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Hello Baz. Sorry I don't think I've fully mastered the indentation of replies on wikipedia yet (is it one colon for each indent?) ;) I'm nearly 100% sure it's Terrorizer that Ciaran Tracey writes for, but I'll verify that, one of my friends is bound to know. Yes, I'll update the article with better citations, always good to have a few more reliable sources that back up the article. I'm currently swamped under with work here, so I suspect I'll not get time to update things until the weekend, but I assure you I'll get it done. As for Abaddon Incarnate, I'll take a look and see what I can do, it'd give me another article to sink my teeth into. It shouldn't be too hard to find some good citation sources. All the best mate. Cheers Mojowibble (talk) 14:45, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Hello Baz. I've added in some more citations to this article from Blabbermouth/Roadrunner, Terrorizer and Zero Tolerance. I also did a bit of general correction and tidy-up. If you're happy, could you remove your post on the talk page (if applicable)? I don't think notability should be a problem anymore. Oh yes, and I asked a friend, it is Terrorizer that Ciaran Tracey writes for. I'll try and get a look on the Abaddon page over the weekend. Cheers bud, have a good weekend.Mojowibble (talk) 15:46, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Les Légions Noires et al.

I nominated Les Légions Noires and all other related articles for deletion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Les Légions Noires (2nd nomination). Seeing as you have contributed to the article, I thought you might have something to say in the discussion. Even though I can agree with the assertation that they are "underground" black metal, I can't find a single reliable source to verify so much that they even exist outside of networking sites such as MySpace and Last.fm . Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Broken clamshells • Otter chirps • HELP)} 19:59, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Heh. I think it was me that AfDed it last time. I'll have another look for sources though. I left a couple on the discussion page, but they are largely trivial. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 23:21, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm afraid I'll be of little help here; I don't have any paper sources that cover them, and my library access is minimal right now. Sadly, and to the detriment of the encyclopedia, I doubt they will survive. Chubbles (talk) 13:08, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Trivial or not, a printed source is much better than no source at all. So please have another look ;). Best, Irina666 (talk) 12:34, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

What I could find in Terrorizer is in the LLN discussion page... Blackmetalbaz (talk) 13:10, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Ok, then why not adding that to the article, under a proper References tag? Irina666 (talk) 21:19, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Vince Palamara AFD

As a side note, the subject needs to realise that they should excessively contribute to their own AfD

Do you mean "should not"? Gordonofcartoon (talk) 11:48, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Yes, of course :-) My bad. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 13:14, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Sevendust

Fair play, rockdetector is indeed a perfectly reliable source re: heavy metal genres. Cheers. Prophaniti (talk) 18:44, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

No worries :-). For what's it's worth I think 'alternative metal' is a bit of a silly name as well, but we have to roll with the sources. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 19:08, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Indeed so, sir, and I try to hold myself to that as much as possible, but I will admit sometimes I get a bit carried away, and I apologise for that. But like I say, rockdetector is absolutely fine, and I'll be making the most of it myself elsewhere on wikipedia. And if alternative metal must exist, it's best to at least keep it properly sourced-up. Prophaniti (talk) 19:50, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Article tagging

Thank you for taking the time to contribute to Wikipedia. I noticed recently that you tagged Vokodlok as uncited and possibly un-notable. I've made the notability question more specific by tagging it "music". You may be interested in the Friendly tool, which makes tagging easy and helps editors to provide more specific explanations on their tags. chrylis (talk) 21:38, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Yeah

Sorry about that. I was just fucking around and doing it for a laugh. =]Screambloodygore667 (talk) 19:27, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Batman's career timeline

Hey, just swinging by to drop you my compliments on noticing that copyvio. Nice catch. Townlake (talk) 14:57, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

No worries. Oddly enough, it was the book I was resting my computer on at the time ;-) Blackmetalbaz (talk) 18:02, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Guinness

Can you tell me why you removed the section on slang terminology please? As a resident of Dublin, Ireland (which you are not), I can tell you that these are in fact pretty common (even famous) slang terms for a pint of Guinness. Also, how can you cite or reference slang terminology?

Definition of Slang: A kind of language occurring chiefly in casual and playful speech, made up typically of short-lived coinages and figures of speech that are deliberately used in place of standard terms for added raciness, humor, irreverence, or other effect...

Am i supposed to reference/cite playful speech on internet pages that use these terms for Guiness? Is that your criteria for leaving something on up on a page? —Preceding unsigned comment added by MrTusk (talk • contribs) 22:20, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

If the slang terms are notable enough for inclusion in an encyclopedia then it should be straightforward to find coverage in reliable sources, such as newspapers, books or magazines. Wikipedia is not a repository of indiscriminate information, nor does it support neologisms - which without sources, your slang terms may well be, resident of Dublin or not. Feel free to reinstate if sources are found, of course! Blackmetalbaz (talk) 09:28, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

edit* i've seen the talk pages.

Hello

I see you editing around on the wikipedia music pages. Good job on that. But the reason I'm writing you is because I have an account on the webzine metalstorm.ee. One person that also has an account on there goes by the name "Baz Anderson". I couldn't help but notice that there are several similarities you have with him, notably his name including "Baz" in it and the taste in music. I know there are some differences in between your wikipedia account and his metalstorm account, but the similarities are too close to not ask if you're the same person as him. I recently made a comment on metalstorm about the article of Aborted being deleted, not knowing that it was resurrected (by the way, my name on there is Table ov Black). He responded with an external link to the wikipedia page, proving that the page somehow returned. That was when I realized that you and him had some similarities. He also sent me a PM giving me constructive criticism about my forum posts being short and lacking detail. So, are you Baz Anderson? If not, then I'm sorry for writing this and taking away some of your time. BT^C 22:40, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Afraid not! Sorry mate, but I am just lowly Baz Jones :) Blackmetalbaz (talk) 11:18, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Ah, I understand. I just wanted to message you about that to clear up some confusion I had. Thanks. BT^C 20:46, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Vlad_Tepes_(band)_(2nd_nomination)

Hi Blackmetalbaz,

Check it out--we've been accused of having weird conversations. I hope the commentator noticed that you were talking about 'notable' in a very specific context, and that they realize that my 'discovery' on Wikipedia was totally accidental, since WP isn't for discoveries, but for established and notable knowledge. Well, at least we agreed on something and hey, doesn't this really mean we tried to do our job objectively? Take care, and keep the faith! Drmies (talk) 18:20, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

I've replied to him on his talk page. His comment seemed rather bizarre, but whatever really. Burden of notability is, as always, on the claimant. And personally, I have no problem with Vlad Tepes staying; but sourcing LLN stuff has always been a headache. Mutiilation should be an easy keep, but much of the rest can probably be condensed into one, decently sourced article. But no-one writes about this stuff, which makes it problematic. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 19:21, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. Well, why don't you take a day off and write that article? (Actually, it was precisely that problem that I found somewhat intriguing, though I am afraid that it'll sound a bit too much like one of those Burzum CDs I bought somewhat accidentally, haha). Anyway, I'm with you and would help IF I knew this stuff a little better. Take care, Drmies (talk) 04:25, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Re:

I'm not ignoring you, but I don't think I have any response to your post on my page. Not because it was poorly reasoned per se, but because I dislike arguing about policy. It gets me nowhere, and I doubt the conversation would touch upon anything else, much as I would like it to. (Trust me, there is no one on this earth who would be willing to sit through and hear out all my issues with Wikpedia policy and culture.) I'd rather just talk about the weather, or how your day went, or something. That must sound like sarcasm or flippancy, but that's not it - more like resignation, and fatigue, I guess.

The new page looks just fine. I imagine some editors would probably (politely) yell at you for using MySpace as a source. Chubbles (talk) 04:17, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Flagging Monumentum for further review

Hello, Blackmetalbaz … I recently encountered the article about Monumentum and in my opinion, it either does not verifiably satisfy the Notability criteria for Music, or it may violate the Conflict of interest guideline, or perhaps it violates a copyright.

I am considering tagging Monumentum (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) for deletion according to the Deletion policy … I do not have time to examine the article in depth at the moment, and it may improve over time, in which case this warning was premature.

I have created this initial entry on your Talk page because you are either the original author of the article, or else a recent contributor to it; I will leave more detailed information regarding my specific concerns about the article on its Discussion page … please respond either there or on this Talk page, instead of on my Talk page, in order to avoid fragmenting the conversation.

Be sure to read Ownership of articles, and remember that Some Other Editors (including at least one administrator) may not share your opinion about the notability of the article's subject.

I do not mean to imply that your contribution is unappreciated … perhaps you should read Starting an article … and remember, there was a time when I knew less about how Wikipedia works than you know right now, and I am always available to help you become a more proactive contributor.

To better understand why I have used this template, please read Flag templates for deletion warnings ... I realize that some of the expressed possible concerns may not be appropriate in this case. Happy Editing! — 72.75.110.31 (talk · contribs) _{04:25, 2 November 2008 (UTC)}

BMTH is not death metal

Hey,i just wanted to say that when you said that me taking off BMTH is "vandalism" i just wanted to let you know that they're not even close to being death metal or deathcore or any kind of metal. They seem more like emo to me,not deathcore or death metal. And the one with no artical ARTHIMOTH,i added them because people need to find more death metal bands,just because they dont have an article doesn't mean people can't look them up and add an article.If i add ARTHIMOTH,people might want to look them up and add the article and help the wikipedia community. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.130.254.114 (talk) 19:39, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

• The sources disagree with you regarding Bring Me the Horizon, and as such their genre remains deathcore; we don't deal with your personal point of view, or "truth" as you perceive it... simply verifiability in reliable sources. Please leave the BMTH article alone, or you will accrue further warnings for vandalism. Regarding Arthimoth, the list pages have come to a consensus regarding redlinks; don't add bands unless an article has already been written or it will get deleted. Feel free to write such an article showing the group's notability per WP:MUSIC and re-add them; I note they don't even have a Metal Archives page, which doesn't look promising, but go for it. If I can be of any help, please let me know. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 19:45, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
• Incidentally, if Arthimoth received significant coverage in Sam Dunn's Global Metal documentary (i.e. more than a 30 second performance or interview) they may actually pass WP:MUSIC; if not, their Myspace suggests they haven't actually released anything, which leads me to suggest you read WP:GARAGEBAND. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 19:53, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Congratulations!

Congratulations on whatever you did to earn your stalker. He's been indef blocked. Keep up the good work. --GraemeL ^(talk) 00:12, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

List of death metal bands

Hi Baz,

I'm going through the list you so carefully monitor, cleaning them up where necessary. I hope you approve of the kinds of edits I've made. Feel free to have a look--I'm still on 'A.' Drmies (talk) 15:25, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Bestial Black Metal

You know bands like Blasphemy or Beherit are not the same like Burzum or Vlad Tepes. Today this kind of Black Metal is called Bestial black metal.

User:Nocturnal Slayer —Preceding undated comment was added at 16:02, 12 November 2008 (UTC).

I am well aware that these bands do indeed sound different from one another. However, if you wish to claim that "bestial black metal" is a legitimate subgenre, then you need to back that up with extremely good reliable sources; your personal opinion on the issue is entirely irrelevant to the issue... just stating it as a fact does not fulfill WP:V, WP:N and contravenes WP:OR and WP:POV. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 16:25, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Extreme Smoke

Hey, thanks for help with Extreme Smoke! I'll try to improve also Patareni article, but there is a real mess with their releases. I'd like to start a new Patareni page in my userspace but i don't know how to do that. Patashnik (talk) 21:54, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Not sure either; hopefully the admin you messaged can help out. I removed the Agathocles splits from the Extreme Smoke page, as I couldn't find a source, including on Agathocles' extensive homepage discography. Have you got a source anywhere? In fact, is there a decent Extreme Smoke page anywhere online, even if it's a fansite or Myspace? Blackmetalbaz (talk) 21:57, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

I can't find their Myspace or any official page. About Agathocles - i'm sure i've got somewhere the splittape ES/AG, but i can't find it on their discogs pages. But i found that: [8] and that: [9] - a lot of tapes, different bands split with AG, also ES. Maybe that helps. Patashnik (talk) 22:14, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Hi, I've recreated Patareni page, now it has sources and references. Many sources are in croatian, serbian or slovenian language, so if you want a translation please let me know. Hope that the article will pass WP:notability now. Patashnik (talk) 04:10, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Page looks pretty good; I made a few changes to the English. I'd be fascinated to read an English language version of the Mladana article, but I'm assuming one doesn't exist (for my own personal interest, not Wikipedia!). Blackmetalbaz (talk) 14:21, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Many thanks for improving the article and English! Here is the Google translation of the Mladina article: [10] Patashnik (talk) 16:02, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

reliable source?

Hey Baz,

Do you consider Metal Archives to be a dependent source? I mean, it relies heavily (or mainly) on user contributions, right? A lot of the death metal bands have only that as a source, and the person whose taken a dedicated interest in Lucifugum for instance has now removed the unreferenced tag, arguing that black metal archives is indeed reliable. Now, I don't necessarily want to re-tag that page (a third time!), esp. since it's really low on content anyway (notability is another matter...), but I do want to know if there is some sort of concensus anywhere on which ones of these e-sources (there's dozens, as you know) are deemed trustworthy. Take care, Drmies (talk) 19:49, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Metal Archives is most definitely not a reliable source, despite a certain subset of editors relying on it for things like genre. In all fairness, MA is a great site and generally a good first port of call for checking discographies and the like, but it should never be cited as a source. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 11:15, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Lucifugum and related pages

Just a heads-up... the editors disrupting the Lucifugum page by removing the unreferenced tags and the like are also behaving unhelpfully concerning the articles for members of the band... Khlyst (musician) is up for AfD but the AfD tag was removed from the article without edit summary and the Stabaath (musician) article, which has been twice speedied (A7) in the last week, is being repeatedly recreated. I'm not entirely sure what the due process is regarding disruptive editors of this sort, but I have added a speedy tag to Stabaath and mentioned the Khylst issue on its AfD page. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 09:54, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Also, given that they are clearly single purpose accounts, I'm moderately convinced that User:Fantomerror and User:Black pauk1488 may be socks. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 10:00, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks Baz. There's an IP at work also, User:212.92.229.171, making contributions in the same vein. Maybe they are socks--I don't know how to figure such things out. Don't they teach you that in microbial genetics? (In English we sure don't.) You know, if they'd only give some real help--like scanning a page from the local paper or something. Not that I could read it, of course. (I'm copying this to your talk page also.) Take care, Drmies (talk) 15:02, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

a note

You may have noticed I added a note on Meyhna'ch--I hope I phrased that carefully enough since sources are of course difficult to come by. If you think it can't stand, soit. Which reminds me: I'm surprised that the French articles on these guys are so uninformative. Must be the status (or lack thereof) of WP in French. (BTW, did you know this?) The Dutch article is lengthy and well-written--and completely undocumented. I left them a note on the talk page, though I don't expect much to come out of that: the Dutch WP seems not always to be so picky about sourcing.Drmies (talk) 15:12, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Burn Your Halo

An article that you have been involved in editing, Burn Your Halo, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Burn Your Halo. Thank you. Drmies (talk) 04:00, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Cancer

Hey Baz, can you have a quick look at Cancer? Is three albums on Vinyl Solution but no real coverage enough for notability? I'm thinking about AfD here. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 05:06, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Baz, you have done it again--growing a tulip on a dunghill. And I stand duly corrected. I honestly didn't know that East West was so big (should have looked it up...I relied too much on the earlier stub), and I don't have Terrorizer at hand. Kudos. I'm going to go and do a few minor edits on the albums and such (and the list on East West). It looks great! Thanks, Drmies (talk) 15:23, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Legions of War

Hi Baz,

Duffbeer put a tag on Legions of War for lack of notability (I actually just received it, and it ain't bad--though repetitive), and after looking around for a while I'm afraid I have to agree. But then, of course, you probably have access to things that might establish notability. If you don't, what about a redirect and merger to Grand Declaration of War (which I've just added a tag to, actually, for OR)? Drmies (talk) 19:25, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Consolation

Hi Baz,

I added a bunch of stuff to these guys (from my hometown!), including a couple of references, some of which even somewhat notable... I did remove the tags. Do you have anything to add to the article? Aardschok doesn't have their reviews online, and since you're the master of the black archives... Thanks in advance, Drmies (talk) 16:45, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

happy holidays...

...and keep on Rockin' in the Free World. Thanks for your help this past year with various articles and references, and with metallic greetings, Drmies (talk) 05:16, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

...and while we're on the topic:

		The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar
		Awarded to BMB for his voluntarily given assistance and guidance. Drmies (talk) 17:25, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Themis Music

This is in the Category of Canadian Wiccans which is quite a narrow definition. Your notability complaints are outrageous. You seem to expect the notability of the Rolling Stones in Great Britain for something that is important to Canadians in a vertical niche. Do you thinbk a nature based religion is inconsequential in a country with 3 million miles of coastline and only the population of New York City? The province I live in is less than 1/12th the country and it has 465,000 square miles of wilderness. Don't tell me it's not NOTABLE! You saw me adding a Gaia link and started to overwrite my changes. That went on three times. You never would have done a thing if you hadn't seen a girl making changes. I am a 20 year old 100 pound girl and you are a bully. I see you have a personal vendetta. Joshua told me this has gone on for years. You fancy yourself as some kind of expert but you are a sociopath on some kind of ego trip. I am so sick of patriarchal bullies like you. I am so sick of sociopaths changing the rules constantly to meet their own situations. Your VENDETTA is OVER.

No matter how hard the dozens of people writing on this page have tried, and no matter how complete the terms of WIkipedia have been honoured, and no matter how narrow the definition, you VANDALIZE the page and reduce every one's efforts to your OVERWRITING bullyism. CRAP. I have read so much crap on Wikipedia. Go clean up the REAL CRAP. Stop insulkting genuine people. The good content about narrow topics of artistic and spiritual interest offends you and your intoerance is noted. We in Canada do not take kindly to being bullied by intolerant sociopaths who abuse every ounce of power and control they might have.

You see me making an edit and start walking all over me. I am the editor of a substantial wicca blog and see that you have trounced several wicca articles on Wikipedia.

Ok lets have a contest. You want to push me around, lets see how many people I can muster to watch your misbehaviour and intolerance.

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1408344056

Amanda —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.17.172.222 (talk) 18:50, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Wicca music

An article that you have been involved in editing, Wicca music, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Wicca music. Thank you. Andy Dingley (talk) 15:47, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Metal Observer: new "Criticisms" section

Hey man, how's things? Its been while...

I've been recently editing the Metal Observer article... Now, I find this web zine generally useful for information purposes; infortunately, it has a few glaring errors (absurd mix-up with band genres, for one) which could prove misleading for the metal neophyte. For that I created a "Criticism" section, to warn potential visitors of the site.

The problem is, I'm currently engaging Prophaniti on a "war of words" regarding the validity of this section. The guy's been a troll since the beginning, and I'm starting to sound like a jerk myself because my patience is wearing thin. He has some good points, but his unremittingly hostile behavior further complicates matters.

Could you give me a hand on this? Check out this talk page and tell me what you think. Musicaindustrial (talk) 20:37, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Hey dude, yeah, been a while... Xmas interfered a bit. I'll go have a look. The criticisms section (at first glance) looked a bit like OR synthesis, but the whole page appears a bit messed up owing to people not getting the AfD right. Give me, say, 48 hours (currently crashing at someone else's house, so Internet access a bit limited). Blackmetalbaz (talk) 17:08, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Themis Music

Hey Baz,

Happy new year to you too. I've orderded a Dutch metal encyclopedia in hopes of beefing up some of the Dutch articles. I also received a Creepmime CD, Shadows, and it's not very good. In other news: you saw that The Metal Observer went into the bin? Take care, and I'll be in touch. Drmies (talk) 15:14, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Sarcófago

By the way, thanks for the help in the Sarcófago article. That band sure deserves a decent page here on Wikipedia... Musicaindustrial (talk) 13:03, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Themis

Hi Baz--the tag is still up there, nothing has been added. Are you ready for a contentious AfD? Drmies (talk) 04:32, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

I had another look at Wicca music, and there is a short paragraph already on there about Themis. Do you think we should merge? Given the contentiousness of the article, perhaps a proposal to merge? (I don't feel that bold, to just do it.) Drmies (talk) 17:14, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

NSBM

You just reverted my edit. Are you kidding? Everybody with the slightest interest in black metal knows Vikernes called himself a Nazi in the mid nineties, which he also admits in the article used as a reference in the paragraph I edited. The version you brought back is idiotic, as it trivialises his position as being mostly anti-establishment and far from Nazism. It is also known many people see him as the father of NSBM, which is stated in books like Lords of Chaos or Unheilige Allianzen as well as many black metal publications. It is also known that most black metallers only label bands as NSBM if they obviously sing about Nazism, but not if their members do not show their National Socialist beliefs. Like Burzum. Or Camulos (Kraftschlag side project, in case you are unaware). --132.187.3.26 (talk) 14:11, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

I got your answer, and as this is a static IP adress, I continued the conversation on my user talk page. --132.187.3.26 (talk) 14:21, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Themis Music

An article that you have been involved in editing, Themis Music, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Themis Music. Thank you. Drmies (talk) 22:23, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Dr. Shrinker (band)

An article that you have been involved in editing, Dr. Shrinker (band), has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dr. Shrinker (band). Thank you. Drmies (talk) 05:35, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Rockdetector link in Nokturnal Mortum article

Maybe Rockdetector is seen as a reliable source in Wikipedia, but I mistrust that site and I can assure you I have found lots of wrong information there. The Rockdetector article about Darkthrone, for example, claims Fenriz was at the Satyricon Wacken gig in 2004, which, according to interviews with Fenriz, is wrong. Same goes for Jon Nödtveidt of Dissection being one of the MLO founders (he was not, as stated here) and, according to this discussion, the article about Absurd and several other ones. It also links to a user talk page archive which dismisses the List of gothic metal bands for claiming some bands were gothic metal whereas they are not, because one can back up these claims through sites like the All Music Guide or Rockdetector. --132.187.3.26 (talk) 13:02, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Rockdetector is a reliable source according to WP:RS. Whether it is true or not is neither here nor there; Wikipedia is concerned with verifiability nor truth. Providing a Rockdetector link to a band page is perfectly in line with WP:EL and removing one constitutes vandalism. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 13:52, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Charles Davi

Difficult to keep one's patience sometimes, isn't it. On the other hand, there seems to have been no fallout from Themis, which surprised me a little bit. All's well that ends well! Drmies (talk) 16:39, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

I know, the last comment was a bit barbed. Sorry! I shall try and maintain my icy veneer :D Blackmetalbaz (talk) 16:45, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

You know, maybe it's something in the weather: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Carlos nemer. You doing alright? I have some exciting news: the Encyclopedia of Dutch Death Metal is coming my way soon:[11]. Woohoo! Drmies (talk) 20:51, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Curiously enough, I was just pairing socks when I read this comment. And yes, the book looks awesome, albeit possibly the geekiest thing ever. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 21:29, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

John Norman

Won't revert your edit, but "Houseplants of Gor" is in fact quite notorious both among Gor afficionados and some anti-Goreans. AnonMoos (talk) 00:36, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Grind Your Mind (source)

Let me say... great acquisition! I was planning to buy this box set just for liner notes!

Say, are you familiar with citing CD liner notes? If not, check out note #10 from the Arise article. Cheers. Musicaindustrial (talk) 16:31, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

keep your crosses fingered...

...and your fingers crossed that I finally get lucky: [12]. Take it easy, Drmies (talk) 03:55, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Darn, $43 for a used CD! But I got it. Drmies (talk) 04:29, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Themis (music)

Well, you did the right thing, CSD G4. I've had this once, and asked a friendly administrator who deleted the article rightaway. Sometimes it's a question of whether the article is (more or less) the same, and normal folk don't have access to those deleted articles. So I think what you did is proper, and the article will be gone quickly... Thanks for keeping an eye open! Drmies (talk) 02:12, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

• Wow, that was quick! Drmies (talk) 04:29, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Gallhammer

Gallhammer are definitely self-described as a crust punk group, and crust punk is universally considered a form of hardcore. I know they're also black metal-inspired, but I don't think that influence excludes their consideration as hardcore.
Does that reasoning make sense? Aryder779 (talk) 00:36, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Yeeeeeeeaaaahhhh.... but that's not really my point. I totally agree that crust is a form of hardcore, and that sources can be found to describe Gallhammer as crust (although their self-description is totally irrelevant of course). I guess I just feel a decent article could be written about Japanese hardcore (which was a very distinctive scene, although sourcing it could be a bitch), but Gallhammer (brilliant band though they are) don't really fit, and are really a footnote a best. I feel the same way about some of the grindcore article edits... yes, grind is an influence on DEP, Orchid et al. but it's a paragraph of influence at best, and a lot of the article is built around this kind of name-dropping. (Incidentally: no disrespect meant; I think you're an awesome editor that works far harder than I have time to!) Blackmetalbaz (talk) 00:43, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

I have a subscription to Terrorizer, but haven't received the March edition yet. I think it takes a while to get to me here in the States. As for Gallhammer and Japanese hardcore, I have no doubt that a good article could be written about it without them, insofar as they're such a recent group. With that said, they're certainly a group who've received a great deal of coverage recently, they're Japanese, and they're linked to the hardcore scene -- so why not mention them? Wikipedia is meant to be accessible to the general public; why would anyone avoid mentioning a contemporary Japanese hardcore group, simply because they're not old-school enough?

About grindcore: Grindcore's influence on Orchid is actually rather significant, given that they did a split with Pig Destroyer early on. I hope you don't think there's too much undue weight in the legacy section; I've just tried to reorganize it so it won't look so paratactic. I feel like "name dropping" is always going to be an issue with music genre articles. I agree, though, on a stylistic level, that the grindcore article includes a lot of "then there was this band, their influences were X, Y, and Z, they were from this country." I'd like to do better than that, but ... honestly, that's kind of the way most of the articles in Terrorizer, Decibel, etc., are written as well, and we have very little stylistic liberty here on Wikipedia.

Thanks for your compliments; I've appreciated your presence here as well, and have found all your edits and talk page contributions to be quite measured and helpful. Aryder779 (talk) 00:56, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Bilocate

Hey Baz, any rescue possible for these fellas? Maybe from your stack of Terrorizers? There's nothing referenced in the article right now that will help them in their quest to survive AfD, I think. Thanks for your help, Drmies (talk) 17:43, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Les Légions Noires

Hi Baz, I did a little bit of rewriting, with the help of your Terrorizer quotes on the talk page. See what you think. Whatever you can do to add would be great--esp. the titles of the two article are sorely missing. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 20:48, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

...finally found a fitting one...

		The Lemmy Kilmister Public Service Award
		Awarded to Blackmetalbaz for his outstanding contributions to keeping rock 'n' roll dirty and Wikipedia clean. Drmies (talk) 03:14, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Cancer (band)

seams to be a problem removing the link to Rockdetector.com, this is not vandalism i am a former member of this band trying to give Wikipedia some credibility...

There are many other sourses of information on the internet, i have a life and dont really have time to do this...

Banning an IP is pointless, there are hundreds of internet centres & cafes in every town, in the end you block and limit other contributors, most internet sites are more than helpful to update and correct their band biographys, even more so when they are contacted by the band members themselves...

Wikipedia and Rockdetector.com are independant and can publish whatever they want over the internet, if they are not helpful or understanding the only option for musicians and bands is to discredit and name these website when they do official press...

Wikipedia and Rockdetector.com will never be as credible as offficial press statements, magazines as Rockhard, MetalHammer, Kerrang, Terrorizer will always be a more valid sourse of band information...

misinformed websites do not HELP bands or musicians...

Rockdetector.com is infact! infecting the internet like a plague, they are like a virus spreading their disease all over the internet, they are most certainly not, FANS OF METAL MUSIC...

All internet Encyclopedias are as bad as the other, plagarism! false information is copyied and spread around like wildfire, most bands have official myspace or website, WHY is this website and others needed, i dont understand the profit, just computer nerds with no life sitting ar home wasting their time writting babble on subjects they know nothing about... 15:31, 16 March 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dethshalrise (talk • contribs)

Black Ambient does Exist!!!

Black ambient is a real genre. Look it up. And Burzum didn't just play dark ambient later in their career. Burzum had songs like that early in their career (ex. Channeling the power of souls into a new god). —Preceding unsigned comment added by The windigo (talk • contribs) 16:02, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Help! Sarcófago Again

Hey man, I'm having trouble with the copyright tags of this picture [13] of Wagner Lamounier aka "Antichrist" playing live. I've just listed Sarcófago as a "good article" candidate, and I think this picture is integral to its content... I wouldn't want it erased. Could you help me out on this one? Thanks. Musicaindustrial (talk) 09:09, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, great that you mention tidying up the language, my english is a bit rusty... I was planning to ask someone to do just that! And speaking of extreme metal, the grindcore article is now being reviewed for "good" status. I hope that one passes... Musicaindustrial (talk) 15:01, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

I'd say yes. There are two sources for the "technical death metal" - one is the source currently being used [14] and another one is a Sarcófago interview on Brazil's biggest metal magazine, Rock Brigade.

The first source is a bio written by Eliton Tomasi, editor-in-chief of the Valhalla, one of Brazil's finest metal magazines. It had been acquired recently by Rock Hard, but is now defunct [15]. This bio is archived on the Whiplash site [16], which is roughly equivalent to a Brazilian Blabbermouth.

In the second source, Sarcófago are asked by Fernando Souza Filho - Rock Brigade's editor-in-chief - if they were steering their sound towards thrash, because their music was now more sophisticated and executed with greater dexterity. Rougly translated, Lamounier and Minelli replied:

Lamounier: "I wouldn't say that our sound has tended toward thrash, what we try to do today is what folks overseas call technical death metal, and lots of people confuse it with thrash. Bands have a natural tendency to make more sophisticated compositions".

Minelli: "We want to show that death metal has it's musical values, so that's why we keep constantly evolving".

Now, I know that Wikipedia doesn't consider bands themselves as a reliable source, genre-wise. Thats why I didn't include this second source.

And yes, I am a skeptic regarding Metal Observer's reliability. When the staff of this site considers Ministry's synthpop debut With Sympathy "punk rock" (synthpop is the polar opposite of punk) and Sepultura's Roots as "death metal", well...

And about The Laws of Scourge being thrash - how many thrash songs have you heard lately that feature blast beats and death growls? Exactly. Furthermore, that album is packed with those speed-picked, cromatic single-note riffs that are a trademark of death metal. Anyway, I have The Laws of Scourge in mp3 format. I'll upload it here soon so you can judge if The Laws of Scourge is really a thrash record...

Cheers. Musicaindustrial (talk) 21:54, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

You can download The Laws of Scourge here: [17]. Musicaindustrial (talk) 21:59, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

I almost forgot... I'll help you with the Sextrash stub! I have their debut Sexual Carnage on vinyl. I also had their 2nd record Funeral Serenade (an interesting death metal album, by the way) on CD, but some bastard metalhead friend of mine stole it ages ago... I've heard recently that Sextrash has regrouped. I'll definately keep a lookout for sources. For now, here is Cogumelo's Sextrash page (in english): [18]. Musicaindustrial (talk) 22:18, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Good Faith

Concerning your edits with 152.135.235.188 on the List of death metal bands. Though I favor in your edit over the IP's. I do not believe this IP is intentionally putting vandalism on the page as you tagged.--F-22 Raptor ^IV 23:46, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Re: Template:Infobox

Well, I know there is a huge split for the genre area of the infobox and for such a reason, I try not to edit it often because I know the sides are split greatly and the battle seems to be ongoing for quite awhile. I haven't seen the true concensus anywhere for the genre field myself but I remember months ago seeing a final word for the labels and associated act parameters using commas since they are more prone to having longer lists (especially for bands with extensive history or label changes). In all honesty, I'm for breaking (metal) bands with only double genres but anything beyond 4 is going too far and should use commas. Although is Diaboli even black metal and death metal? There shall be no problems if they are just black metal. Sorry that I couldn't find the actual discussions I thought I could find them. Maybe the discussion is elsewhere on an WP:MOS-related page. FireCrystal (talk) 20:22, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

ENT

Wow, good work on the Extreme Noise Terror article. Aryder779 (talk) 22:13, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

• Hear hear. Drmies (talk) 20:16, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Death Organ

Hey Baz, a friendly editor threw this article my way. I don't see what else I can do with it, and though I'd love to say (esp. after working on it) that the notability tag ought to be removed, I can't say that with good conscience. If you have anything to add, please feel free! Thanks, as always, Drmies (talk) 20:16, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Lucifugum

If Lucifugum page is deleted I advise you to also delete the following pages (with much more notability problems than Lucifugum!): Vlad Tepes, Black Funeral, Diaboli, Deathspell Omega, Clandestine Blaze and many-many others. You edited these pages (at least some of them) many times but never nominated for deletion. Why? Delete them also. It will be fair. Otherwise, it looks just like your bad personal attitude to Lucifugum. Administrators should keep an eye on you. --Black pauk1488 (talk) 21:28, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Hi, dude! Perhaps, you don't know, but there is NO more known Ukrainian bands than Lucifugum (black metal) and Nokturnal Mortum (ex-black metal, now heathen/folk metal band). These bands where the FIRST bm bands in Ukraine. You write about the lack of proofs, ok, the nearest one is before your eyes, citation from biography on Rockdetector: "a cult name on the Ukrainian Black Metal scene". The fact is fact, history is history, and any perversion of truth = vandalism. Avozpar. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Avozpar (talk • contribs) 12:08, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Avozpar, I'll cite from WP:V: "The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth." That's the problem here, and that's why there's a tag, for instance, on Lucifugum. Rockdetector is not much of a reliable source. Drmies (talk) 15:13, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Lucifugum's discography

Greetings!

1. The Kingdom Sorrow... Behind the Northern Wind is not an official demo, it was just a rehearsal recording exclusevely for promo purposes. I have read this here: http://www.propaganda666.com/WysiwygPro/L/LUCIFUGUM_int_SG_eng.htm That's why I removed it, and I'm right.

2. I have all original (and reissued) Lucifugum releases, this is one of my favourite bands. There are just English titles there (with English letters) and Russian titles (with Russian letters), but NO ONE Rissian title is written with English letters, like this terrible ones: "Nakhristikhryaschakh" or "Na Kryuchya Da V Klochya". It's a someone's fantasy. These terrible and not existing titles have been taken from Metal Archives, whose info is often right, but not in all cases. The OFFICIAL titles are:

Demos

• Gates of Nocticula (1996)
• Path of Wolf (1996)
• Through Indifferent Sky (1997)

Albums

• on the sortilage of christianity (1999)

(a note: Lucifugum always write "christianity" from a small letter, don not change it please. Also: "sortilage" is not a mistake, it has been taken from cd booklet).

• On hooks to pieces! (2000)
• ...And the Wheel Keeps Crunching... (2001)
• Stigma Egoism (2002)
• ...Back to Chopped Down Roots (2003)
• Sociopath: philosophy cynicism (2003)
• Vector33 (2005)
• The Supreme Art of Genocide (2005)
• Involtation (2006)
• Sectane Satani (2007)
• Acme Adeptum (2008)

3. * Instinct Prevalence is not an album, but compilation of Path of Wolf and Through indifferent sky demos, released in 2001 on cd by Dark Horizon. It must be situated in demo section.

Some proofs of my words you can see also here: http://www.propaganda666.com/WysiwygPro/L/LUCIFUGUM.htm

You can see there that ALL official titles of Lucifugum releases are in English (with English letters exclusively). --Dodkalf (talk) 14:18, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Deletion

Blackmetalbaz! It seems to me you provide a dishonest policy concerning Lucifugum. Is this band a problem for you? Ok, you can delete it, but in this case you MUST delete ALL black metal bands. I mean: Darkthrone, Satyricon, Dark Funeral, Drudkh, Gorgoroth, Nokturnal Mortum and many-many other. Only in this case it will be fair. Lucifugum is a band with 14 years history and numerous albums quantity. If you delete it you make a 100% vandalism and break Wikipedia rules. --Dodkalf (talk) 15:12, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Propaganda site with many interviews and Lucifugum cd's is a very reliable source. Other known labels (Drakkar, Adipocere, BlackMetal.com) edited different Lucifugum cd's. Many distros selling Lucifugum cd's all over the world is a next proof. What reliable source you have for, for example, Drudkh page? Just rumours. Delete Drudkh page, it will be fair. Relax and leave Lucifugum alone. --Dodkalf (talk) 15:35, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Hey, guy! You think you're a big boss, but you're not the owner of this site, and your terrorism and unprofessionalism concerning Lucifugum is terrible. Someone must stop you making vandalism. Your lack of education in black metal sphere is visible to everybody. 1. Propaganda is more than reliable source, it's a well-known and notable label which released tons of bands, some of these bands are worldwide known (Grand Belial's Key. So, Lucifugum is a NOT self-released band. They are released under "Propaganda" mark, not Lucifugum. 2. Lucifugum interveiws were given to major printed magazines ("Seven Gates of Hell" and "Mega Sin" from Poland). As for Wikiedia rules: "Has released two or more albums on a major label or one of the more important indie labels (i.e. an independent label with a history of more than a few years and a roster of performers, many of which are notable)". It's about Lucifugum. They have released some cd's through major French label Adipocere records and their sub-label Oaken shield. Moreover, as I told, Propaganda is also a very notable label. 3. Band with many years history and tons of PUBLISHED albums can't be deleted just because of your wish. --Dodkalf (talk) 19:17, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

• Baz's "lack of education in black metal sphere" is hardly as glaring as your lack in knowledge of Wikipedia policies, nevermind the WP:CIVIL article. "Terrorism" is a pretty serious thing to say, and really crosses the line. Drmies (talk) 19:34, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Blackmetalbaz, are you ok? Yesterday Lucifugum was ok for you, you even added the reference to Rockdetector. And today you don't believe to yourself yesterday's. You should be more serious, my dear. It's a famous band, if you still didn't understand. --Avozpar (talk) 19:39, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

As for Wikipedia rules: Lucifugum has also released an album ("Stigma Egoism", 2002) through a MAJOR French label Drakkar, who also released Watain, Grand Belial's Key, Deathspell Omega, Mütiilation etc. --Avozpar (talk) 09:34, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Blackmetalbaz, you created the page for Diaboli. 1. This band is not more important and not more known than Lucifugum. 2. Notability of Diaboli has been established just by band bio, (written by band directrly, NOT by reliable source) and by Rockdetector. In this case I ask you: why do these sources ok for Diaboli and not ok for Lucifugum? Why do interview for a very small and very unknown label Sund and Moon is a reference for Diaboli? Why do Lucifugum interviews and Rockdetector bio not ok for Lucifugum page? 3. The situation with labels who released Diaboli albums is the same as with Lucifugum: just indie labels released Diaboli, NOT major. So I ask again: why do you want so much to delete Lucifugum page, if Diaboli page, made by you, the same “not reliable”? It’s not fair. Lucifugum is a very notable band, I insist, this page must be saved. Deletion = crime. --Black pauk1488 (talk) 19:24, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

hey Baz!

Please drop by Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pagan metal (2nd nomination) and weigh in. To my surprise, the genre is somewhat notable, but feel free to differ--I read above that you are an acknowledged terrorist and metal hater... ;) Drmies (talk) 19:26, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Check out pagan metal again--I managed to find some really good sources. How's your German? Drmies (talk) 02:00, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Blackmetalbaz. You have new messages at Talk:Rephormula.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Cannibaloki 17:16, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Bolt Throw

it's been extensively sourced but it wasn't cited once.... lol okay. —Preceding unsigned comment added by PEiP (talk • contribs) 21:30, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

fair enough. i think it's absurd, but i can't really argue it if you put up sources. PEiP (talk) 21:37, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

GA nomination of Sarcófago

Hey, the Sarcófago article is finally being reviewed for GA status. Would you care to lend me a helping hand so the process goes smoothly? Thanks. Musicaindustrial (talk) 16:33, 12 May 2009 (UTC)