User talk:Agne27/Archive 6

As your interested...

General review The General review is intended to encourage and identify competent content with a minimum of bureaucracy. It has no subsidiary pages outside of template space. If an editor feels that they have updated a page to the point that a general reader would be reasonably satisfied with the coverage, they may nominate in one of the categories below. The article should not neglect major aspects of a topic, have sound prose, and cite its sources. Nominations need only a blue link and a summary sentence. Any editor may choose an article from the list: remove it from this page, start an article talk thread, and leave a user talk note with the nominator. Reviewers are encouraged to edit the article directly if they see room for improvement. Once the reviewer and nominator are both confident that the coverage is competent, the successful General review template may be placed at the top of article talk. The template should be linked to the thread where the review took place. Where an editor finds a page that has passed General review but feels the coverage dissatisfying, he or she may reiniate the process: start a thread, leave a user talk note, and attempt to improve the content. If this fails, the template may be removed. Currently there #### that have passed General review. There is no canonical list. Ideally, every article on Wikipedia will one day be able to pass General review.

What GA could have been? Marskell 09:41, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Vinography Ad flag

Why do you feel like a list of press coverage for the particular topic is tantamount to it being written as an advertisment? Is it because the title for that list of links is "press coverage" as oppposed to "external links"? If so, I will make that change. There are plenty of other precedents in Wikipedia for listing press mentions of a topic as a series of links, e.g. Woot, Drudge Report so the mere existence of these links in article shouldn't be a problem. -- Gnocchiandwine (talk) 17:32, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

I felt the article reads likes an advertisement and according to our external links property a link farm of such a nature would not be appropriate. Feel free to look at our WP:ADVERT policy for more information. I would also caution that your edits seem to imply a possible close association with the subject matter. If you are connected, either professionally or personally with the project you may want make recommendation on the article's talk page or on the Wine Project talk page to avoid any possible conflict of interest. Agne^Cheese/^Wine 19:46, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Bank of Sweden/Nobel Prize

Your comment is interesting, because surely the point of having the correct name ("Bank of Sweden Prize...) is that it doesn't elevate that status of the economics prizes to the level of the other real Nobel prizes?? Haven't you got it backwards? Please reconsider. Wikidea 10:35, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Honestly, I don't think the average reader cares that much about semantics and wordplay. The prestige and notability of the award is not really affected whether or not it is sponsored by the Bank of Sweden or sponsored by the Nobel Foundation. It's commonly known as the Nobel Prize in Economics. It's given at the same ceremony. The rest is just periphery. My belief is that it would be a disservice to the reader to have the article at the uncommonly known and awkwardly titled Bank of Sweden Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel and I don't think I'm alone in thinking that I'm at the wrong article if I came upon that page when I'm looking for the Nobel Prize in Economics. Agne^Cheese/^Wine 11:20, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Could you guys please move/copy this conversation back to the survey since it's a response to a vote there? Thanks! –panda 17:41, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Nobel famously detested economists. This is why he did not endow this prize. It is a blatant posthumous hacking of his intentions on the part of the bankers in Sweden. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.231.241.76 (talk) 01:42, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

History of American wine

This is an automated message from CorenSearchBot. I have performed a web search with the contents of History of American wine, and it appears to include a substantial copy of http://aguidetowine.com/aguidetowine-learnaboutwinefromamerica.php. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions will be deleted. You may use external websites as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences.

This message was placed automatically, and it is possible that the bot is confused and found similarity where none actually exists. If that is the case, you can remove the tag from the article and it would be appreciated if you could drop a note on the maintainer's talk page. CorenSearchBot 06:48, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Wow, that is quick. Like less then a minute. :) I was creating a split from the main American wine out of the humongous history section there. I'm not aware of a copyright vio and do not know who the original author is but will look into the information. Agne^Cheese/^Wine 06:50, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Talk:Nobel Prize#Economics

Could you please give some feedback on the discussion in Talk:Nobel Prize#Economics? I've also asked a couple other editors for their opinion. Thanks! –panda 18:31, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Failed verification

Hi. I can only assume that your removal of my citation in Kistler Vineyards was either an oversight in fact checking or perhaps since it's on one of the last pages of the book after the index, maybe not included in all printings. I've restored the citation and included a URL. (no biggy) But more to the point, I too am a stickler for citing sources and I actually appreciate your verification. However, I find it's often a better idea to tag a citation with either {{Failed verification}} or {{request quote}} for at least few days to give the editor the benefit of the doubt if it seems like they're an earnest contributor. Courtesy and inclusion goes a long way on WP. Cheers! Toddstreat1 12:49, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

I apologize if that came across as discourteous. Considering the fluid nature of the wiki, I tend to take Jimbo's words of just remove it rather then tag and wait to heart. It's better to have no information then to potentially have incorrect information. If I was mistaken, it's an easy fix. Though after reading the "Do yourself tasting guide" section that you posted online (and admittedly its not in either of my two copies of Tabers book), I have to admit I still have doubts as to the strength of that reference. The "leading Chardonnay" is quite vague and Kistler is mentioned almost in passing with no collaborating statements to back up the claim that they are a "leading producer of chardonnay" (Sales, production volume, range of distribution, history? etc). It just seems like an unsubstantiated personal opinion and just a token mention at that. Agne^Cheese/^Wine 22:15, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

American Viticultural Areas

Good work on getting all the names of the AVA's switched to (Name) AVA format. Now we just need to create pages for those that don't already exist. In addition to the Virgnia wine article, I'm going to try to work on the East Coast AVA's that still need articles. VirginiaProp 22:21, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. I appreciate your work. Again let me know when you start and I'll be glad to pitch in. Agne^Cheese/^Wine 22:22, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

LGBT WikiProject Newsletter

Delivered on 17:31, 11 October 2007 (UTC).

Low-end fortified wine

Well I've moved it there - I don't think original research is a concern, as we're not putting this forward as a colloquialism, rather than as a description of the class. Cheers! bd2412 T 03:13, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Good Articles Newsletter for November 2007

The November 2007 issue of the WikiProject Good Articles newsletter has been published. Comments are welcome on this, as well as suggestions or offers of assistance for the December 2007 issue. Dr. Cash 01:06, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

DYK

On 5 November, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Valle d'Aosta DOC, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Carabinieri 19:49, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

On November 8, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article History of Rioja wine, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Do you ever drink and edit? Does it improve editing skills :) ?Blnguyen (bananabucket) 01:45, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

On November 8, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Harvest (wine), which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Blnguyen (bananabucket) 07:44, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

On November 9, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Maceration (wine), which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Thanks again,Blnguyen (bananabucket) 00:53, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Gilbert Perreault

I am unclear on your position. It seems you are saying removing citations in favor of a ref section is bad, but then with respect to the article you are saying it is not necessarily well cited. However, this is not clear. In short, it sound like you may be on my side, but I can't really tell.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 19:51, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm not on yours or anyone else's side. I strongly favor the use of inline citations but my honest opinion was that as a GA reviewer I wouldn't have passed the Gilbert Perreault article that you original did without some improvement to the citation structure of the article. (I certainly wouldn't pass the current version). I tried to give some example to explain that you don't need multiple citations for the same claim but you do need to make sure that more opinion oriented claims (like the two I picked out) are cited. This meant that in order for the article to be "well cited" some redundant cites would need to be removed but some relevant cites would be added. Agne^Cheese/^Wine 02:14, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Agne

You're pretty darned impressive yourself :o)) --mikaul^talk 15:47, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Wine Portal

I've stopped by the Portal:Wine a few times and noticed it hasn't been updated since I believe April. I've been updating the Portal:Food for the last six+ months along with the other stuff for the WikiProject Food and Drink and was going to start updating the Portal:Wine but wanted to see if you are anyone else on the WikiProject Wine had plans.--Chef Christopher Allen Tanner, CCC 22:01, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

That was Charleen & Schark's baby. I really didn't have much to do with it. If you want to work with it, feel free. Agne^Cheese/^Wine 22:35, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

DYK

On 9 November, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Barbaresco, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Cheers, Daniel 23:03, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Wine/Template wine region article

Hi, started this. Georgeg 19:58, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Cool. If you haven't already, drop a note on the Wine Project to hopefully solicit more input. Admittedly I won't be too active with this template in the early going since I have a couple articles like Piemonte (wine) that I'm still working heavily on. Agne^Cheese/^Wine 20:01, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

DYK

On 11 November, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Aglianico, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Carabinieri 23:28, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

LGBT WikiProject Newsletter

Delivered on 12:00, 1 November 2007 (UTC).

DYK

Did you know? was updated. On 12 November, 2007, a fact from the article Tasmanian wine, which you recently nominated, was featured in that section on the Main Page. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Zzyzx11 (Talk) 21:05, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

On 13 November, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article History of Sherry, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Rigadoun (talk) 23:51, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

On November 13, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Piedmont wine, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Blnguyen (bananabucket) 05:36, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

You should become an admin! Blnguyen (bananabucket) 05:36, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the compliment but I've got more articles to write that I would fret that adminship would distract me from. But thanks again for the thought. Agne^Cheese/^Wine 15:48, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Merci!

Thanks for your comments, they were helpful.--Charleenmerced ^Talk 21:53, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

No problem. It is a good article (Much like your other work on Carménère) and I thought the criticism missed the marked. It was an honest assessment of the article from an (admittedly) non-soap fan. Agne^Cheese/^Wine 21:58, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

DYK

On 17 November, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article South Australian wine, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Carabinieri (talk) 12:49, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Did you know? was updated. On 18 November, 2007, a fact from the article Loire Valley (wine), which you recently nominated, was featured in that section on the Main Page. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Zzyzx11 (Talk) 15:14, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

DYK

Did you know? was updated. On 18 November, 2007, a fact from the article Flurbereinigung, which you recently nominated, was featured in that section on the Main Page. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Zzyzx11 (Talk) 22:11, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

DYK

Did you know? was updated. On 19 November, 2007, a fact from the article Tannat, which you recently nominated, was featured in that section on the Main Page. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Zzyzx11 (Talk) 04:14, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

An article which you started, or significantly expanded, Galician wine, was selected for DYK!

On November 19, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Galician wine, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Thanks for your contributions! Nishkid64 (talk) 19:14, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Spanish connections

Hi Agne, I see you're working hard on Spanish wines :) Glad to see that someone else cares!!! :) Apart from me and Mickaud no-one else seems to have contributed and we have both been kind of inactive lately. In my case, I'm really busy with Other Things at the moment (including my wine project!) so I cant do much. --BodegasAmbite (talk) 09:36, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks but you two really laid the ground work with the individual DO articles. I'm just doing some of the broader scale work. But thanks again for the kind words. Agne^Cheese/^Wine 09:57, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

A toast

Thank you.

In appreciation of your patient advocacy on my behalf, even though we haven't interacted very much. I'm touched by your kindness. Best regards, Durova^Charge! 17:30, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Well thank you. I consider myself just a simple editor and I was moved to speak after seeing one of the project's best admin get railroaded for a very simple and human mistake. It is easy to see a lot more damaging admin abuses out there and it good to see that even Jimbo can recognize the silliness that has erupted. You've conducted yourself with the utmost integrity and class and I think I represent a fair share of the "average editors" out there whose only interaction with you is to see the quality work that you do. Agne^Cheese/^Wine 21:35, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

DYK

On 23 November, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Catalan wine, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--WjBscribe 17:15, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

DYK

On 24 November, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Jura wine, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Aksi_great (talk) 19:35, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for your great post on the Contest talk page. We would love to have you on Veropedia as well, to keep the wine articles stable and in good shape. If you are interested, please let me know. Danny (talk) 03:29, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

hmm, that might be something to consider. I've got a couple other non-wiki projects that will take up some of my time for this next week and a half but after that I would probably be interested. Agne^Cheese/^Wine 03:38, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

2007 Kansas Jayhawks football team

I noticed that you made an edit to what I had posted. Kansas and Mizzou BOTH are tied in the Big 12 North at 7-1, albeit, Mizzou, wins the Tie-Breaker and will represent the Big 12 North in the title game, that also means that Kansas is the C0-Champion of the Big 12 North and will receive a flag nxet year saying as such. Just like Georgia and Tenn. both are tied at 6-2 in the SEC East and are Co-Champions of the East, but Tenn won the tie breaker. Georgia will still be labeled as the SEC East Co-Champion. Dawg1279 (talk) 06:19, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Incorrect. According to the Big XII itself, Mizzou is the outright Big 12 north champion. Tigers Down Jayhawks 36-28 to Win Big 12 North Agne^Cheese/^Wine 06:30, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

This is from the Kansas Football Website: No. 4 Missouri Upends No. 2 Kansas 36-28. Read the 2nd paragraph. Dawg1279 (talk) 06:15, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Heh, I think the Kansas website would be a tad more bias then the official Big XII website. Agne^Cheese/^Wine 15:19, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Another DYK

On 27 November, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Lombardia (wine), which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Keep up the great work! --Royalbroil 16:02, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks, I figured I would get belittled for that one, I thought it was funny. ;) Barnstars only suck in the sense that they are completely intangible. I give 'em out, because it's nice to know someone is thinking of or appreciates you. It's the time it takes, not the actual award itself though, which a message accomplishes the same thing, of course. :) Thanks again.IvoShandor (talk) 16:53, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Mosel wine

Hello Agne, nice to see that you've improved significantly on the Mosel article. I suppose it was to celebrate what I've heard is a quite good vintage, which we need after the relatively horrible 2006. I made a few minor corrections to the text, and I thought I should point out that German vineyard names are usually written unhyphenated. Brauneberger Juffer-Sonnenuhr is one of few exceptions.
The article also stated that Müller-Thurgau from Mosel goes into Liebfraumlich, which can't be fullt correct since Liebfraumlich can't come from Mosel (only from Rheingau, Nahe, Rheinhessen or Pfalz). I changed that to "Liebfraumilch-style" wine as an easy workaround. To be quite honest, I don't know where M-T ends up or if the present statement is really correct. I don't think I've ever seen a real life bottle of Moseltaler (the Liebfraumilch-look-a-like from Mosel), but I have seen Rivaner (dry M-T) from Mosel, and I think cold-grown M-T works OK in Sekt, especially if blended with Elbling which has very high acidity. I suppose I have to try to check it up some time. BTW, keep up the good work! Tomas e (talk) 22:08, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for the corrections. You are quite right, it was a Liebraumilch style wine that I was trying to refer to but obviously missed in clarifying that. I probably should drink a little less of my subject matter when working on articles. :P Agne^Cheese/^Wine 20:40, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

DYK

On 29 November, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Mosel wine, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Carabinieri (talk) 22:04, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Oak (wine) pic is up

Hey Agne, I finally got round to it, or something like it, by way of another shot I was doing. They're reds of course, rather than the whites you suggested, but I guess it's all the same. I didn't notice anything directly relating to colour changes in the text, hence the long caption. If you'd rather add all that sort of thing to the text (including why the colour changes..) be my guest :) --mikaul^talk 22:31, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Mick! I'll take a look. Agne^Cheese/^Wine 20:41, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

DYK

On 30 November, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Lesbian wine, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Cheers, Daniel 05:52, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

DYK

On 30 November, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Alicante Bouschet, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Cheers, Daniel 11:29, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

DYK

On 2 December, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Toscana (wine), which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--≈Tulkolahten≈^≈talk≈ 20:24, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for nominating this article. I went out of town before I could nominate it prior to the 5 day mark. I appreciate you finding a good hook from it. Agne^Cheese/^Wine 18:13, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

You're very welcome, Agne27. Thank you for the nice article. It very much deserves a spot on MainPage. Cheers! --PFHLai (talk) 03:00, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

LGBT WikiProject newsletter

Delivered on 20:05, 3 December 2007 (UTC). SatyrBot 20:25, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Good Articles Newsletter for December 2007

The December 2007 issue of the WikiProject Good Articles newsletter has been published. Comments are welcome on this, as well as suggestions or offers of assistance for the January 2008 issue. Dr. Cash 00:30, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Maison Joseph Drouhin

I'm working on cleaning up old Oregon-related merge proposals and was wondering if there's any reason we shouldn't go ahead and merge the other two articles into this one? Katr67 (talk) 23:32, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

WP:WINE newsletter

The Wine Project Newsletter! Issue VII - December 8th, 2007

In this edition: Back in black...or rather wine stain burgundy Yes, the newsletter is back and we catch up with the some of the great work being done by Wine Project members like Kharker, VirginiaProp, BodegasAmbite and more! Updates on Operation Stubkiller, GAs, and DYKs As well as advice and links for finding photos and illustrations for our wine articles

This newsletter is sent to those listed under Participants on the Wine Project page. If you wish to no longer receive this newsletter please include Decline newsletter next to your name on the Participant list. If you have any Wikipedia wine related news, announcements or suggestions drop a note in the Comments/Suggestion area of Wikipedia:WikiProject Wine/Newsletter.

Brilliant

		The 25 DYK Medal
		Congratulations! Here's a medal for you in appreciation of your hardwork in creating, expanding and nominating 25+ articles for DYK. Numbers are not important, but 25 is impressive. Have a bottle of wine. Keep up the good work, Agne27! --Victuallers (talk) 20:46, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Oh why thank you! DYK is a fun project and thank you, as well, for your participation in it. Agne^Cheese/^Wine 21:15, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Wine region picture

Yes, you can use it. The permission was for use in Wikipedia, not any particular article. Just don't use it outside of Wikipedia. --Charleenmerced ^Talk 15:42, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Ah, cool! Thanks :) Almost done with the article. Agne^Cheese/^Wine 15:44, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

DYK

On 12 December, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Pais, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

- Mailer Diablo 19:09, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

On 13 December, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Vietnamese wine, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--EncycloPetey (talk) 12:27, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

You're welcome

By the way, there are still a lot to write about various countries producing wine: Turkey, South Korea, India, etc... only if we can find reliable sources. --BorgQueen (talk) 13:19, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Oh yeah! It's exciting that there is a literally a world of wine out there but daunting at the same time. I've got access to a few good sources so I'll see what I can do. I'm currently researching Algerian wine. Agne^Cheese/^Wine 13:34, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Deuxième thoughts

(cont. from here)

If you haven't seen these there's some promise. A NY Times article (adorably ancient voice from 89) which gets a RS nod, and what I belive to be a transcript from a L'Express article from 2005, in French mind you, and not through L'Express' official pages. As far as the NYT article, quite a few things have changed, long before Réserve du Général became Alter Ego, but the historical snapshot is nice. The sources oddly differ as NYT mentions that Mouton-Rothschild stands out by not having a second, while L'Express credits Mouton Cadet with giving impetus to the practice. As far as the pioneer, NYT points to a Brane-Cantenac deuxième some time in the 19th century "according to Decanter", while L'express claims there are records of Pichon-Lalande sending a second to the world's fair in Moscow 1874. Léoville Las-Cazes producing Clos du Marquis in 1904 they agree on.. MURGH ^disc. 00:28, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, that is interesting. Good find! If I get a chance tonight I'll try to start the article but you are always welcome to take the lead if you like. Agne^Cheese/^Wine 04:01, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

OK, yes I just might do that once I'm done with this bout of Graves wineries. MURGH ^disc. 15:35, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Started! Second wine Agne^Cheese/^Wine 01:20, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

A good, thorough start. I found a nice official pdf listing all the top cru seconds, I'll start applying soon. What I'm not sure where to insert, what I feel is initially missing, that many chateaux will make its second exclusively from its youngest wines, producing sort of a juvenile sampler. Where do you think that best fits? MURGH ^disc. 02:05, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

It probably would go best in the "Production" section. Agne^Cheese/^Wine 02:21, 15 December 2007 (UTC)