Talk:Scottish Deerhound

deerhound

Hi there. The source is available for full viewing on google books. The source describes the dog as being a "stag hound" (is there a difference?) of Scottish origin. The animal illustrated certainly does conform to the deerhound look. I'm not an expert on the matter though, as I came across it mostly for my project in re-writing the spotted hyena page.Mariomassone (talk) 00:04, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Here is the link: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=CcURAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA31&dq=brian+stag+hound+hyaena&lr=&as_brr=3&ei=-0GLSui8HIrWyATw-L2PDg#v=onepage&q=brian%20stag%20hound%20hyaena&f=false

The chapter starts at page 29. Hope it helps.

A search for deerhound here always redirects to "scottish deerhound". This lead me to presume that it was the only kind. Perhaps someone should rectify this by doing an article on generic rather than specific deerhound breeds.Mariomassone (talk) 00:08, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

The article doesn't call the dog "Brian" a "deerhound"; deerhounds are any type of dog that hunts deer, they are not necessarily the same as Scottish Deerhounds. The same can be said of "stag-hounds", they can be any type of hound that hunts deer, not necessarily the same as Scottish Deerhounds. Furthermore the article names the dog as the same type of the portraits of "the illustrious Scottish bard (Robert Burns), most likely a collie type. Burns has as far as I know never been credited with having a deerhound of any sort. Burn's own description (from the poem "Twa dogs") of that collie type, corresponds with the illustration you took from Fraser's magazine article "He was a gash an' faithfu' tyke, As ever lap a sheugh or dyke. His honest, sonsie, baws'nt face Aye gat him friends in ilka place; His breast was white, his touzie back Weel clad wi' coat o' glossy black; His gawsie tail, wi' upward curl, Hung owre his hurdie's wi' a swirl ..." The illustration of the dog attacking the hyena is simply an artist's impression, from a story, it is certainly not a valid picture of a Scottish Deerhound.--Richard Hawkins (talk) 16:05, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Main photo

The acclaimed photo that has lead this page for the last two years has been temporarily removed for copyright reasons. Permission to reproduce that photo is actively being pursued, please be patient.--Richard Hawkins (talk) 20:26, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Height & Weight are needed

The height & weight of this breed need to be added to the article.

Gatorgirl7563 (talk) 11:53, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Notable dogs

Hello Richard Hawkins, if a dog cannot be named it is clearly not particularly notable, the article is not a repository for every Deerhound that has ever been mentioned in a a letter. Cavalryman (talk) 23:58, 21 January 2021 (UTC).

None of those names, originally added by others, were simply mentioned in letters, and this referred to one particular - clearly named individual - which was made notable in three books, and a major movie. No one even attempted to make this a "repository of names ever mentioned in a letter". I suspect you have other trivia you can better deal with, by making fewer mistakes, being more accurate and more polite. :-) --Richard Hawkins (talk) 23:40, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

I have reviewed all three sources and think something like this is more appropriate:

* Dusk, favourite of a number of Deerhounds kept by Karen Blixen.[cites]

If it remains worded as it currently is we should rename the section Notable owners of Scottish Deerhounds, the current version is not accurate. As an aside, I usually consider it polite to leave an edit summary if reverting another contributor, in full or in part. :-) Cavalryman (talk) 04:03, 23 January 2021 (UTC).

Thank you, I have placed Dusk as the subject. Need I remind you that when you removed this entire section, you did so giving no explanation in your summary, hence my query "surely a mistake?" :-) --Richard Hawkins (talk) 14:11, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

Latest edits by Traumnovelle and Justlettersandnumbers

The latest sweeping edits by Traumnovelle demonstrate a singular lack in understanding the material, have lost important references, and garbelled others.

Just a few points:-

• “A survey conducted by the British Small Animal Veterinary Association of The Kennel Club members”.

Inaccurate and illogical.

• “The geneticist R. Jödicke said – During the 20th century the Deerhound”

That was a reference to a published paper, not a speech of any sort. Demonstrates a singular lack of understanding the material.

• Some of the previous information on genetic diseases in the breed has been removed. Irresponsible.

• The link with reference to the oldest most original breed standard has been removed. Irresponsible.

• The reference/link to the two SDCA health surveys has been removed. Irresponsible.

If you are not familiar with the material and have not followed and read the linked references please leave it alone.

• The restored version of Traumnovelle's edits by Justlettersandnumbers with the trite remark "Nope, was markedly better before" suggests that this has become personal, and also demonstrates a further lack of understanding, lack of editing and comprehension skills.

Please leave it alone if you do not understand it.--Richard Hawkins (talk) 19:44, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

>Inaccurate and illogical.

How? The Kennel Club sends out the survey but all the data is reviewed and collated by BSAVA members if I'm not mistaken.

>That was a reference to a published paper, not a speech of any sort. Demonstrates a singular lack of understanding the material.

It was poorly worded before, you can edit it and change it yourself.

Also published paper really? It's a kennel club newsletter not a journal.

>Some of the previous information on genetic diseases in the breed has been removed. Irresponsible.

Didn't meet critieria for WP:RS#Medical_claims for health claims. I did try and find studies on the breed.

>The link with reference to the oldest most original breed standard has been removed. Irresponsible.

I should've put it in the infobox but you can't rely on a primary source for the 'most original' claim.

>The reference/link to the two SDCA health surveys has been removed. Irresponsible.

You mean to https://deerhoundhealth.org ? It's a fancier site without any disambiguation to the survey you're talking about.

I don't have issue with changing the wording of the first two issues/sentences.

I didn't undo your revert but it went against WP:Revert. Traumnovelle (talk) 20:12, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

Much of that information was suppled by the UK breed club members *who are not members of the UK KC*.

The geneticist Jödicke *wrote*.

You have removed the links to *the two major health surveys* by the SDCA which are essential reading for any enthusiast/breeder/breed-historian.

You have provided outdated genetic information mentioning the breed that is now inaccurate, and removed upto date information such as that on bleeding disorders, percentages of males females contracting genetic diseases.

The breed standards are dated on the document itself; for the UK that is 1892 - 1902, and slightly modified in 1935 in the USA. This US SDCA version is now the most original document/standard of the breed since the UK rewrote the standard in 1986. All in the documents.

It is quite obvious you don't have a proper grasp of the material involved. You made a mess. Richard Hawkins (talk) 21:34, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

Richard Hawkins, please don't make personal comments about other users. Your recent edit restored a large chunk of unsourced and unencyclopaedic WP:NOTHOWTO content (stuff like "that does not mean it needs a large house to live in"), and more of the same sourced only to this page, which is clearly not a reliable source by Wikipedia standards (apparently some breeder's random webpage) – I reverted it for that reason. Traumnovelle's edit may not have been perfect, but was a good step in right direction. The article is gravely under-sourced and in dire need of some informed editing. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 21:58, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

Exactly,the emphasis should be on *informed editing* which recent versions have clearly not been. Richard Hawkins (talk) 22:01, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

>Much of that information was suppled by the UK breed club members *who are not members of the UK KC*.

Are the breed clubs not members of the Kennel Club? If not then I have no qualms with changing it.

>You have removed the links to *the two major health surveys* by the SDCA which are essential reading for any enthusiast/breeder/breed-historian.

They weren't direct links and a survey by a breed club without oversight wouldn't meet reliability as I mentioned before. External links like that should go into the external link section instead of being hyperlinked into the article.

>You have provided outdated genetic information mentioning the breed that is now inaccurate, and removed upto date information such as that on bleeding disorders, percentages of males females contracting genetic diseases.

The study is a bit old but there is nothing more recent that meets WP:RS#Medical claims, that 'upto date information' is directly from the breeders which makes it a WP:Primary Source, which can in no way be considered reliable for a health claim. I did try and find more studies but the other results were even more outdated and less conclusive in their results given they all involved a closely related lineage.

>The breed standards are dated on the document itself

'most original' implies closest to the original standard. That's a claim that needs referencing to an unrelated source, not just the breeder's word for it.

It was also an external link in the body of the article going against WP:External links.

I've gone ahead and added the AKC standard to the infobox as that's the appropriate place for it. Traumnovelle (talk) 22:24, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

I just noticed your user page contains a mention of a clear conflict on interest in the topic. https://en.wiki.x.io/w/index.php?title=Scottish_Deerhound&diff=prev&oldid=207463840 Traumnovelle (talk) 02:02, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

I've found the actual study based on the Kennel Club survey so I will rewrite based on that. Traumnovelle (talk) 07:12, 12 February 2024 (UTC)