Talk:Mazan rapes
| This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Mazan rapes article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
| Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1Auto-archiving period: 30 days  |
 | Wikipedia is not censored. Images or details contained within this article may be graphic or otherwise objectionable to some readers, to ensure a quality article and complete coverage of its subject matter. For more information, please refer to Wikipedia's content disclaimer regarding potentially objectionable content and options for not seeing an image. |
 | On 7 September 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved from Mazan rapes case to Mazan rapes. The result of the discussion was moved. |
| While the biographies of living persons policy does not apply directly to the subject of this article, it may contain material that relates to living persons, such as friends and family of persons no longer living, or living persons involved in the subject matter. Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about living persons must be removed immediately. If such material is re-inserted repeatedly, or if there are other concerns related to this policy, please see this noticeboard. |
 | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
.svg){kind=small}
 | The contents of the Pélicot affair page were merged into Mazan rapes on 5 September 2024. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page. |
Fake website
editSomeone keeps trying to insert a link to a fake website. The website has featured on the France24 programme Truth or Fake[1]. It is discussed at 4 minutes into the video, which is in English. Southdevonian (talk) 20:24, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
Pélicot or Pelicot
editNot something earth-shaking for sure, but still. Recently the French wiki, which had Pélicot and Pelicot written all over their article, modified the spelling from Pélicot to Pelicot (removing the accent, which BTW doesn't change the pronunciation in French). I checked around and indeed most French sources, including Le Monde, AFP and other major media don't have an accent. We could make that change here too. Lubiesque (talk) 00:55, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
- I was going by what French Wiki was doing. But if they have removed the accent, then by all means go ahead. Southdevonian (talk) 10:07, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
Requested move 11 December 2024
edit
| | It has been proposed in this section that Mazan rapes be renamed and moved to Mass rape of Gisèle Pélicot. A bot will list this discussion on the requested moves current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil. Please use {{subst:requested move}}. Do not use {{requested move/dated}} directly. |
Mazan rapes → Mass rape of Gisèle Pélicot – Due to her courage to waive anonymity, Gisèle Pélicot is more recognisable and prominent than the place these crimes were committed. (Also, a number of the rape incidents did not occur in Mazan, as indicated on the map in this article). I think "mass rape" emphasises the enormity of the case, but Rapes of Gisèle Pélicot may be equally valid. Thoughts? GnocchiFan (talk) 08:26, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
- I too have a problem with the present title, if only because rapes with an s sounds odd - not quite as bad as sheeps but still a bit odd. Although technically it is the plural of rape there are usually ways round it like mass rape, repeated rape, incidents of rape, etc. I am hesitant about putting Gisèle Pelicot's name in the title though. I would prefer Mazan mass rape but open to discussion.
- As for the other places - Drome is where Marechal's wife, not Gisèle Pelicot, was raped. Villeparisis was where the attempted rape of the estate agent took place. Villiers-sur-Marne was where the Pelicots used to live and I think the attacks started there. But, as far as I can recall, none of the accused have been charged with rape in Villiers-sur-Marne. Perhaps none of them could be identified, or Dominique Pelicot hadn't started recording the attacks until the move to Mazan. Southdevonian (talk) 11:41, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose - we don't name articles on Wikipedia based on our emotions but based on policies, specifically WP:COMMONNAME. Nominator has not provided any evidence to show that Mass rape of Gisèle Pélicot is the most common name used by reliable English language sources.--Obi2canibe (talk) 21:18, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Obi2canibe: I agree that WP:COMMONNAME should be what guides us - please can you (or anyone else in this discussion) provide evidence that "Mazan rapes" is the common name in English-language sources? GnocchiFan (talk) 21:52, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
- It is up to you, as the person who wants to rename the article, to show that what you've proposed is the common name. However, I can say that French media have dubbed this case as "viols de Mazan" which translates to Mazan rapes in English.--Obi2canibe (talk) 17:02, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose. Both sound very weird, but the suggested target is actually worse. The two names I have seen for this in French are "affair Pélicot", i.e. Pélicot affair/case, and "Affaire des viols de Mazan" i.e. Mazan rape case/affair. The latter is more prominent. Mazan rape case is the best bet then IMO, which is similar to the old title we had except without the odd plural. Most of the English sources I can see don't directly name it that way, except in relation to the trial (Pélicot trial). PARAKANYAA (talk) 02:44, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
What about renaming the article to 'Pélicot case' ?
editIt would seem more or less the simplest denotation of the matter, which is, as you all know, rather complex. But it does contain the main name and there are similar examples of these high profile crimes being denoted as such (see Fritzl case, Turpin case, &c). PsychologicalAirport226 (talk) 07:26, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
- I would support a move to this title if the move discussion above is not successful. – GnocchiFan (talk) 21:54, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
Absence of attribution
editThis page was clearly initially translated from the French wikipedia article, more precisely seemingly from this version : https://fr.wiki.x.io/w/index.php?title=Affaire_des_viols_de_Mazan&oldid=218350662
I don't understand how to repair insufficient attribution, can anyone help? Celinea33 (talk) 01:01, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
- Celinea33, I expect the article was indeed originally copied from the French one, but since then it has been extensively copy-edited and new text and sources have been added so that it is now an original article and there is no need to repair attribution.If you can see any paragraphs that appear to have been lifted from the French article, perhaps you could highlight them here? Southdevonian (talk) 08:34, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
- The article was an original article before you took it upon yourself to remove a quarter of the references and many, many more inline citations.--Obi2canibe (talk) 19:06, 14 December 2024 (UTC)