Talk:Larries

Babygate

Is there a reason that the Babygate section was whittled down so much? It was already pretty short for what a big deal it was at the time, because of my opinion that the reporting on it was so invasive, and the impact on the fandom (which is backed by scholarly sources) was just cut out entirely. H-influenzae (talk) 16:41, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

Bibliography

Here's a list of links I have found, some of which are not in the resources section of the page yet, that I think would be valuable to incorporate into the article. While I think this is a really valuable topic, I have determined that I need to let it go for now and contribute to parts of the site that I think require some more attention (Harry's main article for one) and will make me happier (I find this topic to be quite upsetting, if I am honest, and I would like to work on some things that spark joy.) all of these links, sans the Tiffany book (which I think is a necessary read) have PDF links attached, or are readable on google books .

I might come back at some point but I will leave you all to it for now.

Books

Everything I Need I Get From You, Kaitlyn Tiffany (2022)

Brennan, JosephQueerbaiting and fandom: teasing fans through homoerotic possibilitieshttps://webapps.unsworks.library.unsw.edu.au/fapi/datastream/unsworks:66858/bindd47bcd5-87dc-4fa4-95e2-c32c77e7d441

·       https://www.routledgehandbooks.com/doi/10.4324/9781003022343-18#sec18_2

·       https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Routledge_Companion_to_Romantic_Love/j_tPEAAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=larry

·       https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Routledge_Companion_to_Romantic_Love/j_tPEAAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=routledge+companion+to+romantic+love&printsec=frontcover

Shipping (as) Fandom and Art Practice (Owen G Parry) in Fandom as Methodology: A Sourcebook for Artists and Writers (2019)

·       https://www.google.com/books/edition/Fandom_as_Methodology/dMK9DwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=0

·       https://ualresearchonline.arts.ac.uk/id/eprint/18009/11/Shipping%20as%20Fandom%20and%20Art%20Practice.pdf

Transmedia Music: The Value of Music as a Transmedia Asset (Paola Brembilla) The Routelage Companion to Transmedia (2018)

·       https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Routledge_Companion_to_Transmedia_St/CatxDwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22larry+stylinson%22&pg=PT142&printsec=frontcover

A New Breed of Fan?: Regimes of Truth, One Direction Fans and Representations of Enfreakment (W Proctor) in Seeing Fans: Representations of Fandom in Media and Popular Culture (2016)

·       https://www.bloomsburycollections.com/book/seeing-fans-representations-of-fandom-in-media-and-popular-culture/ch6-a-new-breed-of-fan-regimes-of-truth-one-direction-fans-and-representations-of-enfreakment

·       http://eprints.bournemouth.ac.uk/29327/1/A%20New%20Breed%20of%20Fan%3F.pdf

“I will Throw You off Your Ship and You Will Drown and Die”: Death Threats, Intra-Fandom Hate, and the Performance of Fangirling (Bethan Jones) in Seeing Fans: Representations of Fandom in media and Popular Culture (2018)

·       https://www.bloomsbury.com/us/seeing-fans-9781501318450/

·       https://www.google.com/books/edition/Seeing_Fans/-_9FDwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1

Crazy About One Direction: Whose Shame is it Anyway? (Daisy Asquith) in Seeing Fans: Representations of Fandom in Media and Popular Culture

·       https://research.gold.ac.uk/id/eprint/22295/1/Whose%20Shame%20FINALpdf.pdf

·       https://www.bloomsbury.com/us/seeing-fans-9781501318450/

News

Larry Stylinson, the One Direction conspiracy theory that rules the internet, explained, Aja Romano (2016) https://www.vox.com/2016/4/18/11384118/larry-stylinson-one-direction-conspiracy-theory

Who decided that Louis Tomlinson’s baby is fake, why, and is he?, Kaitlyn Tiffany (2016) https://www.theverge.com/2016/4/8/11393680/louis-tomlinson-fake-baby-why-one-direction-tumblr-conspiracy

Why fans think HBO’s Euphoria crossed a major fanfiction boundary, Palmer Haasch (2019) https://www.polygon.com/tv/2019/7/2/20678859/euphoria-harry-louis-larry-fanfiction

Fans Are Furious After HBO’s “Euphoria” Included an Animated Sex Scene Between Harry Styles and Louis Tomlinson, Ellie Bate (2019) https://www.buzzfeed.com/eleanorbate/hbo-euphoria-harry-styles-louis-tomlinson-larry-scene

Meet the TikTokers obsessed with Harry Styles’ ‘secret’ love life, Jessica Lucas (2022) https://www.inputmag.com/culture/larries-larry-stylinson-tiktok-harry-styles-harrys-house-olivia-wilde

One Direction fandom adds billionaire record exec to conspiracy theory, Gavia Baker-Whitelaw (2013) https://www.dailydot.com/upstream/one-direction-larry-stylinson-clive-calder/

Why Do Harry Styles Fans Hate Olivia Wilde?, Kayleigh Donaldson (2022) https://www.thedailybeast.com/why-do-harry-styles-fans-hate-olivia-wilde

Love the Internet? Hate It? Thank a Fan, Kenzie Bryant (2022) https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2022/06/how-fangirls-created-the-internet-as-we-know-it-kaitlyn-tiffany

How One Direction fans deal with online harassment, Aja Romano (2012) https://www.dailydot.com/unclick/one-direction-fans-larry-stylinson-harassment/

Larry Stylinson is a conspiracy hellhole involving two of music’s biggest stars (2021) https://www.thepitchkc.com/larry-stylinson-is-a-weird-conspiracy-hellhole-involving-two-of-musics-biggest-stars/

The Internet is Mourning 42 Suicidal, Potentially Non-Existent One Direction Fans (2013) https://www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive/2013/08/internet-mourning-42-suicidal-one-direction-fans-might-not-even-exist/312076/

MPREG versus Homonormcore (2015) https://thenewinquiry.com/mpreg-versus-homonormcore/

The inner lives of adult One Direction fans (2017) https://theoutline.com/post/2115/the-inner-lives-of-adult-one-direction-fans

Why are so many adults obsessed with one direction (2015) https://www.vice.com/en/article/rnw9bw/why-are-so-many-adults-obsessed-with-one-direction

slash and burn (2012) https://web.archive.org/web/20150330024441/http://amandahess.org/slash-and-burn/

One Direction Fanfic Takes the Art World by Storm (2016) https://www.vice.com/en/article/bmy3q4/one-direction-fanfiction-art-exhibition

is fan fiction ethical? (2019) https://i-d.vice.com/en_uk/article/43zed3/fan-fiction-consent-ethics

Why do Adult Women Love One Direction Slash Fanfiction (2015) https://www.vice.com/en/article/evg4gm/why-do-adult-women-love-one-direction-slash-fanfiction

The “No Homo” Fantasy that Is One Direction (2012) https://www.vice.com/en/article/8gvexg/the-no-homo-fantasy-that-is-one-direction

why do our brains love celebrity conspiracy theories? (2018) https://i-d.vice.com/en_uk/article/gy7bbq/celebrity-conspiracy-theories-taylor-avril

The Bizarre Taylor Swift Conspiracy Theory That She is Secretly Gay (2016) https://www.vice.com/en/article/4xkje3/the-taylor-swift-conspiracy-ring-thats-convinced-shes-secretly-gay

Scholarship

Repetitions of Desire: Queering the One Direction Fangirl, Hannah McCann (2019) https://www.berghahnjournals.com/view/journals/girlhood-studies/12/1/ghs120106.xml?ArticleBodyColorStyles=full-text

Rainbow Direction and fan-based citizenship performance, Bri Mattia (2018) https://journal.transformativeworks.org/index.php/twc/article/view/1414/1969

Lesbian Fandom Remakes the Boy Band https://d1wqtxts1xzle7.cloudfront.net/64930476/writing_sample-with-cover-page-v2.pdf?Expires=1656528649&Signature=euIJn94907CfG612yo1G-EpcVEy~Q4eJe4Lm~ogC-8PlmmxIcm6~Ai7BDjZ4F7gwR2IrFq0F85JHTtRTNHUabdbY0WlVsIDhvFR0LLcbjU~U-w8KhMe21~faWNqkHtP2LJNZxxf8l6Tnm3pSw3Iag7n-TY7z4cpV0KUUWG~D3DOYVz2qdlsu6j~SS8813KKLuymv0TxW2shVUqpZNJFzoWjj8mmP0gGv1LYAjPLw8nfbI15JuwRNWg9hN4yyPp6SDwLpB6vKQ9Cs5uvBo7F5tZV~KkAyOsJg5-JP9qlA4PCrQ-KGezkNTCepq2IPN7zg20eKW1fSEkQnf608XkCkaA__&Key-Pair-Id=APKAJLOHF5GGSLRBV4ZA

You & I: One Direction, Fans and the Co-Construction of Identity (2017) https://ourarchive.otago.ac.nz/handle/10523/7691 ; https://ourarchive.otago.ac.nz/bitstream/handle/10523/7691/LovelockMillicentE2017MA.pdf?sequence=1

“Story of My Life”: Why One Direction Fans are Still Participating https://journals.tdl.org/swecjmc/index.php/swecjmc/article/download/97/98

H-influenzae (talk) 17:33, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 November 2023

Please change

Larries are shipping conspiracy theorists who believe that former One Direction bandmates Harry Styles and Louis Tomlinson have a long-term and secret romantic relationship.[1][2][3]: 173–174 

to

Larries are shipping conspiracy theorists who believe that former One Direction bandmates Harry Styles and Louis Tomlinson have or had a long-term and secret romantic relationship.[1][2][3]: 173–174 Some Larry conspirary theorists also believe that they has some sort of a romance during the early days of One Direction, but since have gone their seperate ways. Editor234823940 (talk) 13:17, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:20, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

Adding to that, the WP:LEAD is supposed to be summary of the rest of the article, and the article is supposed to be a summary of WP:RS about Larries. I don't much doubt there are people such as you describe, but has any decent sources noticed and bothered to write something about them? Per Fanlore (a WP:USERG source), there are many flavors of Larrie, that doesn't necessarily mean they are mentioned here. I see on that page something termed "Houie." Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:29, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 23 November 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (non-admin closure) Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 05:04, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

---

Larries → Larry Stylinson – Since it's been almost two and a half years since the no consensus close of the previous move request, I thought it might be time to bring this discussion back up again.

A good article title is consistent, and all the conspiracy theory articles that I have examined (see Category:Conspiracy theories) use the title of the theory, not the believers. For example, there is no anti-vaxxer article; there is only a Anti-vaccine activism article. There is no Flat-earther article; there is only a Modern flat Earth beliefs article. Other ships (see Category:Slash fiction) also use the name of the ship, not the fandom, albeit this is a unique topic in that it is about real people. In the last discussion, I heard that this article is somehow different in that the scholarship is more about the believers than the theory, but that isn't exactly true. For one, there is also scholarship documenting the actual theory. But also, the psychology of the believers is also central to other conspiracy theory articles (e.g. Modern flat Earth beliefs § Sociological explanations for counterfactual beliefs), which all still use the name of the theory.

Additionally, "Larry Stylinson" is certainly more precise. "Larries" could potentially refer to multiple "Larry"s or "Larrie"s, or, as the ngram viewer shows, industrial/mining equipment. Although one could argue that the ship is the more common interpretation, it certainly hasn't been historically (and we aim to avoid WP:RECENTISM), and changing the title to "Larry Stylinson" would remove all possible ambiguity. BappleBusiness^[talk] 22:40, 23 November 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 23:29, 1 December 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. ~/Bunnypranav:<ping> 15:24, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

• Support. Larries is ambiguous. Better use the more unique name. Theparties (talk) 04:51, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose. It seems to me that Larries are the group of people this article is about, which of course is mostly about their CT. Larry Stylinson is the coupling that group invented or the CT about it, if there is a difference. "Larry Stylinson are shipping conspiracy theorists who believe..." looks weird. For disclosure, I started this article. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 06:25, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
  • As stated in the article, there has not been a documented phenomenon of shipping the pair fictionally, so I don't think there is an issue with ambiguity. We would obviously have to reword part of the lead to read something roughly like "Larry Stylinson is a fandom ship and conspiracy theory that former One Direction bandmates Harry Styles and Louis Tomlinson had or still have a long-term and secret romantic relationship. Proponents of the conspiracy theory are called Larries (sg. Larry or Larrie)." Also, I don't think this is what you meant to insinuate, but please note that it is Wikipedia policy that no one has the right to act as though they are the owner of a particular article. BappleBusiness^[talk] 19:26, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

    "There’s no real space in fandom for people who ship Harry/Louis in the fictional sense." (from the article) sounds to me like there was/is fiction, but that's my reading. And of course there is fiction like Euphoria. You are not just suggesting a change of title here, you are suggesting a change of topic (a bit) and that is a bigger issue.

    Me noting that I started this article was meant as a "warning" that I might be attached to my own work (though most of the current article is written by @Computer-ergonomics), kind of the opposite of WP:OWN if you will. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:12, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

    I see what you're saying about the fictional ship. Although in the article, the lead sentence insinuates that all Larries assert that the ship is real, while in "History", it only says "most". If we are going with the broader definition, we still have to reword the lead to specify that "Larries" also refers to those who ship the pair fictionally. I would imagine the best way to deal with these ambiguities is to make the topic the most broad possible, and I think "Larry Stylinson" is that, encompassing the fans, conspiracy theory, and fictional pairing.

    I don't think the content of the article would have to change much, if at all. We'd simply be framing the topic in a fashion that is more consistent with other similar Wikipedia articles (also found Paul is dead, which focuses on the theory rather than its proponents). All the content we'd have to change is the lead, which could read something like "Larry Stylinson is a popular fandom ship between former One Direction bandmates Harry Styles and Louis Tomlinson. The belief that the two bandmates truly had or still have a long-term and secret romantic relationship (also referred to as Larry Stylinson or as Larry is Real) has been consistently rejected by Styles and Tomlinson, and has been labeled a conspiracy theory. Proponents of the theory, as well as those who ship the two fictionally, are called Larries (sg. Larry or Larrie)."

    And I see what you were getting at with the disclosure -- my apologies. BappleBusiness^[talk] 23:40, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Oppose Good morning, everybody! What a blast from the past. @BappleBusiness I recognize the argument that there are no "anti-vax" pages, however the majority of the scholarship on this conspiracy theory is specifically about the conspiracy theorists themselves. "Stylinson" is also quite frankly not used that often in this day and age. You can see that on fanlore, the theory is actually commonly known as "Larry is Real." That is why Larry is Real redirects to Larries. I'm not sure as of the time of writing why I didn't specify that in the header but it's likely because WP:RS didn't explicitly say it anywhere, even though it is anecdotally very well known.

I think there's plenty to be said about why this conspiracy theory is most commonly referred to in reference to its proponents rather than the theory itself (my money is on the fact that people simply don't take young women seriously) but that is beyond the scope of this move request. Best. Computer-ergonomics (he/him; talk; please ping me in replies ) 15:28, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

@Computer-ergonomics, sorry for not responding until now. Since Fanlore is a wiki, I don't think we can use it as a reliable source to determine what is the most common term. But if you look on Google Trends, it isn't close: "Larry Stylinson" is searched much more often. BappleBusiness^[talk] 21:42, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

I don't see the relevance of Google Trends when I am citing both the literature and the fan scholarship that the professional literature is based on as the reason the article is named this way and merely using anecdotal evidence that "Larry is Real" is more common to support that reliable source-based argument.

Regardless, both Larry is Real and Larry Stylinson automatically direct you to the Larries article on Google and within Wikipedia itself, so the argument needs to be stronger than what is found by doing a quick Google Trends search.

I would encourage a thorough look at the literature and news articles used within the article to determine how it should be framed. In my opinion, since the reliable sources talk for the most part about the fans, then it is wrong to re-create the article to be exclusively about the theory.Computer-ergonomics (he/him; talk; please ping me in replies ) 21:58, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

Yeah. Sources like [1] focus on Larries/Larry fandom, that has weight in this context. Changing the article subject is not a good idea. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:20, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Strong support with Larries redirecting to Larry Stylinson. Larries are only secondary to the main theory, Larry Stylinson, which is the most commonly recognized phrase when talking about the conspiracy. Even Styles' and Tomlinson's official Twitter accounts have tweets regarding Larry Stylinson. Per WP:COMMONNAME, as Larry Stylinson is the most recognizable name, it should be the title. Wikipedia prioritizes the broader concept rather than individuals or communities involved hence why Shipping is titled Shipping (fandom) and not Shippers. jolielover♥talk 06:24, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Seems to me Larries are a broader concept than their idea. Also with this change of topic, it can be argued that content like

"Larries have bullied and harassed Styles' and Tomlinson's girlfriends.[8][2][1] The harassment extended to include the mother of Tomlinson's child, the family of one of his girlfriends, as well as an unrelated family with the same surname.[2][27]"

should be removed, because that's not about Larry and off-topic. While the Larrie CT is not off-topic on the subject of Larries, it's why they exist as a group. The more I think of this, it seems to me that "Larries" and "Larry Stylinson" don't overlap quite enough for this to be considered a title change only, it's a change of topic, like Christians and Christianity. That was some WP:OTHERCONTENT I just did there, and the WP:OTHERCONTENT essay is an essay. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:24, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

WP:BLPNAME

@Jolielover, hi! I removed Briana Jungwirth's name from the article, I think it's good WP-style per WP:BLPNAME. We can have her name in this article, there are decent sources, but per WP:BLPNAME there is no good reason we should, it does not add "significant value". I think it's more motivated in the Tomlinson article, so I won't argue for removing it there. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:29, 26 January 2025 (UTC)

Alright, that is fine. Thanks! jolielover♥talk 09:42, 26 January 2025 (UTC)