Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Western Australia/Archive 3

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DYK

I have just proposed the following "Did You Know" at [1]:

=== Articles created/expanded on April 30 ===

• ...that Australian rules footballer, Charlie Moore, the first Australian to die of gunshot wounds in the Anglo-Boer War, played in the 1898 Victorian Football League Grand Final against Stan Reid, who died in the same war six weeks later. . (the Moore article, created by User:Roisterer on 26 April 208, is "new"; and the Reid article, created by User:TheGrantley on 22 March 2008, has been recently revised). Nom by Lindsay658 (talk) 23:34, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

I am hoping that the fact that it includes references to two separate articles may be given some weight. Lindsay658 (talk) 23:49, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Swan River Colony article

Early visitors and attitude : - Current reading of this article (and recent edits) suggest an attitude of disfavour about swan river area - my memory (and i cannot place the ref easily) is that is not a NPOV line of argument and that such a conclusion is a shallow reading of sources - anyone? (Also posted at wa project noticeboard) SatuSuro 01:49, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Advice/Disclaimer issue

(posted at Meekatharra talk page where this emanates)

Wikipedia does not give advice - is there any opinion either way on the section as found - removal or re-wording?

My suggestion would be: -

Travel in the region like all outback regions of Australia requires care - check local authorities for advice and information - any thoughts? SatuSuro 03:20, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

wow it must have been monday when everyone actually had to do some work - no answer in a day - hmmm SatuSuro 08:01, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

I'd replied at the talk page of the article. Orderinchaos 08:37, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Section removed - anyone coming to this issue late - over the last year or so - every now and then articles about townsites and locations at the edge of the big deserts get small sections irregularly placed which say 'take care' do this and do that' - they constitute advice - and as shown here - are removed SatuSuro 10:24, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Is there a Francophile in the house?

The French Wikipedia has a brief article on renowned Perth zoologist fr:Albert Russell Main, but Alas! the English wikipedia has nothing. Want to have a crack at translating it? Hesperian 12:01, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

The art is a straight pinch from http://www.asap.unimelb.edu.au/bsparcs/biogs/P004064b.htm nothing really to translate -SatuSuro 12:05, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Oh. Very well. Hesperian 01:07, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Why not. The "What links here" link shows that the main article is List of zoologists, which includes 48 australians. Do you want those red links all translated or just Main ? Comte0 (talk) 23:50, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Pictures galore

File:Regans Ford, Western Australia.jpg

Regans Ford: it ain't pretty, but it sure is encyclopedic.

I asked the guy behind http://www.eneabba.net/ if he would release his dozen-ish photos of North Island (Houtman Abrolhos) under CC-BY-SA, so that I could use them on the article, and he has responded by releasing all of the photos on his site, I think over a thousand in total. They aren't very big, but many of them are quite well done. I think we'll be able to make good use of them. Orderinchaos, there are plenty of towns for you. There are over 500 wildflowers for Melburnian, Gnangarra and me, including Gastrolobium for SatuSuro and Verticordia for Cygnis Insignis. Moondyne, you may find some birds pics for your List of Western Australian birds. Geographic features, animals, visitor attractions....

I've passed the permission on to Wikimedia, but haven't got an OTRS ticket yet. Don't let that stop you uploading anything that takes your fancy; just follow what I did at Commons:Image:Regan's Ford, Western Australia and you'll be right.

Hesperian 14:01, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

I can confirm the email has been received by OTRS when uploading please put {{PermissionOTRS|ticket=https://secure.wikimedia.org/otrs/index.pl?Action=AgentTicketZoom&TicketID=1527489}} {{CC-BY-SA-3.0}} in the permissions field, also maybe we should create a category for the images to keep them all together as a group. Gnangarra 16:10, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

It's certainly an impressive collection of photos - there are several hundred of wildflowers alone. The eneabba.net site is quite extensive [2] and contains some "fair use" material - am I right in assuming that Photoalbums is the section that has the website's own original photos, i.e. the ones that can be used? Melburnian (talk) 00:07, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

He gave us permission to use "any images from eneabba.net", but as you say he doesn't have full rights over everything there, so we must ensure that we only upload photos that is entirely his IP. Roughly speaking, this corresponds to the stuff in "photo albums", but even that section contains a few we can't use, such as a set of photos of Salvador Dali works. Hesperian 00:24, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

I've added images to Eneabba, Western Australia, Toodyay, Western Australia, Moore River (Western Australia), Lancelin, Western Australia, Yallingup, Western Australia, Dongara, Western Australia‎, Walkaway, Western Australia, Murchison River (Western Australia)‎, Watheroo National Park‎, Three Springs, Western Australia, Mullewa, Western Australia, Walga Rock, Coorow, Western Australia and Regans Ford, Western Australia. Hesperian 13:44, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Very impressive - and an excellent addition to the project to have images like those - thanks hesp for the effort! SatuSuro 01:11, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks very much Hesperian - that will be a useful addition to many of our articles. I'll have more time to look into it in a few weeks. Orderinchaos 06:42, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Added wildflower images to: Anigozanthos humilis, Banksia carlinoides‎ , Conospermum incurvum, Darwinia neildiana, Gastrolobium rubrum, Verticordia grandis and Xylomelum angustifolium. --Melburnian (talk) 09:30, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Things that flutter by in the night time

For those not familiar with the other side there are numerous Xfd discussions that involve neither editors from WA, or australia for that matter - who can and do change the structure of parts of our project - a good example: -

http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2008_April_29#Category:Western_Australian_Football_League

not that it really matters too much - but if you happen to see any live WA issues - it would be appreciated if you bring them to our notice - thanks SatuSuro 08:42, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Actually the nominator of that CfD is indeed a West Australian, but he follows the Tuggersmighty Fremantle Dockers so we probably should disown himtreat him with extreme respect. Seriously, User:The-Pope is our most active Aussie Rules editor, so I can't think of a better person to be handling that discussion. Point taken though. Hesperian 12:03, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Well thats ok then - if hes up there in the scrum thats fine - but regularly items from various oz projects come and go in the night - and in most cases we are none the wiser until its too late SatuSuro 13:40, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Sorry for not raising it here, but I did list it at WikiProject Australian related deletion page and thought it was such a minor, almost just a typo change, did not think it would be at all controversial. At the moment I consider myself only really an active member of WP:AFL, rather than the Aust or WA ones. Might start poking around here more now that the footy season seems less interesting! And Hesperian... don't push me after what happened on Sunday! The-Pope (talk) 14:23, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Its an inherent problem as most well some of us sandgroppers dont see much past the nullabor. Gnangarra 14:36, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

My apologies to the Pope here - it wasnt so much his particular cfd issue - its just that many times - things happen in the Xfd departments that proposers do not actually even bother to check to see if a project exists which they could out of courtesy simply add one a post to - but it also works if we happen to see a Xfd issue arise that might have a faintest connection - that we might take the time to relate the issue back to the oz or wa or whatever project - just an idea SatuSuro 01:09, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Electorates

Any suggestions for what to do with our electorate articles given imminent attention likely to be drawn to them? Orderinchaos 15:43, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

GA lost'

Argyle diamond mine has lost its GA status SatuSuro 11:11, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Radio Peking/Beijing in Perth?

It would appear we have a repeater/station here - anyone the wiser? [3] SatuSuro 11:28, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Oh silent noticeboard

Greeting fellow reader - the west article just got a tag in the political backside - although I would not agree - what do fellow project eds who read this quiet noticebard think of the new tag? SatuSuro 10:08, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

I think the whole idea of rating newspapers for political disposition is just a tar-baby and the info-box shouldn't contain such a thing.

About this noticeboard; I think it would get more use if it wasn't tucked away as a "discussion" page behind the WikiProject Western Australia project page. If it was a project page in its own right like the one for Wikiproject Australia and was prominently linked to on the WA project page, more people would see and use it. Retarius | Talk 04:48, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Nah, it's just because we're all busy. This place is a veritable hive of activity when we're not. Orderinchaos 10:47, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

I'll agree with order - knowing about the circumstances of most of the regulars of the past - we will return :( SatuSuro 10:49, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

I thought we was all just contemplating the right combination of words to establish further meaninglessful discussion. Since everybody is around should we startmaking an official meetup for onset of warmer weather or would people like to brave the cooler conditions. Gnangarra 10:51, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

It will be months before warmer weather returns. Moondyne 11:05, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

North West Shelf

A stub has been started - wikipedia wa project has been going so long and not a single item about a billion dollars a year industry - classic. Any enthusiast or otherwise can be led to the potential sources that are online - just ask if you are interested: - for starters - http://www.doir.wa.gov.au/138_1487.aspx - Petroleum explorers guide to Wa - is probably the most convenient and easy to access info - and has items on the other basisn that have no articles either SatuSuro 04:53, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Mount Newman Mining

When looking at the cloisters article - hey no article about mount newman mining? - so another to do - a check of the pilbara mining companis that are not in the wa project - sigh SatuSuro 09:29, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

I agree - I couldn't believe that there was no links to Mt Newman Mining but couldn't even find a link to Mt Newman so I wasn't suprised. Dan arndt (talk) 09:39, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

More bizarre - the article about newman the locality - does not mention the company name once anywhere - odd and perverse to say the least SatuSuro 09:40, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Have fixed that by adding a suitable comment - have done a quick and dirty company search - Mt Newman Mining Company was bought out by BHP Iron Ore Pty Ltd, a whollly owned subsiduary of BHP Billiton. Dan arndt (talk) 09:48, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

That's right. Its my understanding that Mt Newman Mining no longer exists (in name). Moondyne 09:52, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Northern Pintail

The Northern Pintail article, a Featured Article, is currently tagged with the {{WP Australia}} template at it's talk page. The article is also categorised within Category:Birds of Western Australia. The coverage map within the article doesn't include Australia. Could somebody with more clue than I look into this thanks? Cheers. -- Longhair\^talk 10:51, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

The Northern Pintail is on the W.A. bird checklist as a "Rare/Accidental" visitor. I believe most scientists would not consider such visitors to be part of the established fauna of our fine state. Therefore it is probably best to remove that category. On investigation, I see that I was the guilty party, having added that category back in '06. You live and learn. Hesperian 11:44, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

[4] Hesperian 11:44, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. In that case I'll remove the template from the talk page. -- Longhair\^talk 11:49, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Book to watch out for

When digging around dust bookstores and libraries can people keep an eye out for My Dusky Friends written by Ethel Harris in 1880, and publish by her grandson in 1975 the printer was the west australian. The reason is it covers SW aboriginal traditions, stories as well as the the way in which they were coping with european society, the brief exert I saw could make this a gem to expand many articles. Gnangarra 12:57, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Do a search on Ebay and get out the credit card... is expanding Wikipedia worth spending $256.50 (plus $9.50 postage)?!?!?! The-Pope (talk) 15:49, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

never - if that was the publication date it could be an e book by now :) SatuSuro 00:48, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

From what I can tell it was published posthumously, in 1975, so it won't enter the public domain until 2045. Hesperian 00:28, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Perth

That old chestnut about whether Perth should be a disambiguation page, or redirect to Perth, Western Australia, has arisen once again at Talk:Perth. Hesperian 01:54, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Oh no Blue Mountains all over again - fun times SatuSuro 01:56, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Bevan Lawrence - Deletion debate

In case anyone hasn't noticed, the above article is on the block. I've had my say. Retarius | Talk 07:54, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

The Worst of Perth

How notable is this blog? It doesn't seem all that notable from this side of the continent but will defer to the good people here. Cheers, Mattinbgn\^talk 08:57, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Hmm not commenting here about the WP:N - the problem is all major newspaper publishers here have started a website war - and this could be considered to contribute in part of the unholy mess of misinformation that has resulted from the newspaper publishers trying to get the hit count SatuSuro 09:04, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Secret U.S. Spy Base at Geraldton

I saw this story on the front page of the Canberra Times (17 June) while visiting Parliament House this month. On return to Perth, I was surprised that none of our local friends seemed to have heard the news about the big new US spy base.

I was especially horrified (with apols for the POV) by the revelation that the Rudd Government has dodged full parliamentary and public scrutiny of the enabling treaty by styling it a "memorandum of understanding'" (MOU) to be approved at executive level, cf Keating's notorious Indonesian treaty signed in secret before the Treaties Committee was established under Howard (in 1996).

See also the Radio Australia report (17 June); Another ABC News report (17 June); A version of the Philip Dorling story at RINF.COM; and another casual ABC News story (20 June)

Seems noteworthy enough to me. Do we have anyone with a helicopter and camera up there? (:-) Cheers Bjenks (talk) 01:37, 29 June 2008 (UTC). Ah! I now see that there is referenced under Geraldton, Western Australia a February report by Brendan Nicholson about this; and that it was in fact negotiated by the Howard government. Cheers Bjenks (talk) 01:46, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Premier Broadcast

Tonight Premier Carpenter is to do a broadcast about the gas crisis, I have started an article at Wikinews to cover the event please feel free to contribute to it http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/West_Australian_Premier_televised_address_on_gas_crisis Gnangarra 04:57, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Should there also be an article on Wikipedia? I think why it happened, the premier's address, the impact on the economy etc would make a good article. (If there is an article already, what's it titled?) Regards, Somno (talk) 00:40, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Good point there - what to call it and the number of refs from odd sources - if you look at some of the new arts - some have been made cos the project had nothing n the north west shelf at all (clever preoccupations of eds on the project seemed o ignore that wa has a north west shelf) there are still many holes in the issue (like thevenard is not mentioned i dont think and varanus is a mere stub of skeletal dimensions) as to where the issues emanates - so please with your experience of writing arts from scratch - you have the opportunity - also it has got to national dimensions - and tied in with rising fuel prices, delay in repais and the amount of people affacted - the actual removal from mothballs of coal burning stations in the collie area - and the sheer belligerence of anyone being prepared to explain/deny publically the cause it has all the dimensions of a blockbuster saga for th big screen - - Iaint going public on what i know - sorry - however yes it is needed - if you start can feed some possible refs - but sure oggle or other search engines will have stuff by now SatuSuro 00:47, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

I won't be able to start it for a couple of days, but am happy to get it underway. I suggest we call it Western Australia gas crisis simply because that's what everyone else is calling it. Somno (talk) 02:04, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

No opinion either way, but it should probably be either Western Australian gas crisis, 2008 or 2008 Western Australian gas crisis for Wiki/grammatical reasons. Orderinchaos 15:50, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm, Wikipedia:Naming conventions (events) says to exclude the date unless necessary, and just say "where" and "what" happened unless it's ambiguous. Has WA had any other gas crises? On another note, I think the word "crisis" is a bit too panicky, but the naming conventions say to use familiar, common names when they exist, and I've only seen this referred to as a "crisis". Somno (talk) 09:43, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Oh, and somehow the weekend got away from me, so who knows when I'll actually get the article started! Maybe tomorrow. :) Somno (talk) 09:49, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Actually what the west carries is so close to the 'insiders' versions that I have picked up on its like there might be more leaks in the pipeline and 'people in the know' feeding the west - than holes in a colander - that the govt spin doctors havent got a hope in hell on this one SatuSuro

OK, done! Western Australian gas crisis. Still not 100% sure of the article's name -- once decided, it needs to be backlinked among all relevant articles (e.g. Varanus Island, Apache Corporation). Somno (talk) 10:59, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Peak Hill, Western Australia

This 1890s gold mine is currently at AfD and is in need of expansion. I would have thought it was highly notable, being one of the early finds in the Murchison area. Anyone up for a West collaboration? Moondyne 01:47, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

http://henrietta.liswa.wa.gov.au/search/dPeak+Hill+%28W.A.%29+--+History./dpeak+hill+w+a+history/-3%2C-1%2C0%2CB/exact&FF=dpeak+hill+w+a+history&1%2C4%2C you rang sir? SatuSuro 01:55, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Bah humbug thats only the start - afd indeed - its all tothersiders who dont even know what a henrietta is :( - oggle bah humbug SatuSuro 02:46, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Cool. 23 edits by several editors - particularly User:Somno and User:SatuSuro, expanding the article from a 125 byte one-liner to a respectable start-class in about 2 hours. Well done and thankyou. Moondyne 09:23, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

To do at top of this page

Might it be worth actually creating a separate page for the to do discussions separate from this noticeboard page - or others happy it all coalesces in the one spot if not somewhat messily? Just an idea SatuSuro 00:55, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

I agree with the idea of creating a To Do List, hopefully that will give other editors an idea of various topics that they can address or at least collaborate on. Dan arndt (talk) 09:47, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Yeah a to do list would helpful, but maybe it needs a compatriot list seeking sources for times where one crosses a subject that should meet notability aka Bevan Lawrence... Clarence, Western Australia... Albany Bell. Gnangarra 10:19, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Definately agree with Gnang. Five Years 17:12, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Maybe a list of topics (ie suburbs, politicans, buildings, events) with a sublist of individual articles required.Dan arndt (talk) 00:02, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Sort of like Australia's to-do list, except I'd prefer it with space to write comments and put in some links and sources. Somno (talk) 00:59, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Rica Erickson

Is she still with us? If so, she'll be 100 next month. Moondyne 04:19, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

They make 'em pretty tough round here you know. Hesperian 04:26, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Privacy issues will take any further comments offline - she is not well SatuSuro 04:35, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Collaboration project

Should we be setting a fortnightly project, similar to Wikipedia:Australian Collaboration of the Fortnight where all editors can try and enhance an existing article or create a new article.? Dan arndt (talk) 03:28, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

The way things are we might be the most active (?) state project I think the proposal might be just a bit too... - to maintain a portal, a state project, warding off odd afds, and gradually working through what we have in hand feels enough - I know of too many dormant projects that i am involved in with that have never even got this far - I think we should congratulate ourselves that we have 4 to 8 active admins, and about the same number editors (who actually seem to be around and editing) and that we actually get on ok and that we get things done - I think that should be enough for the moment - if we had double the number of active eds who show any sign of communicating here regularly - that would be possibly the time - but I now know more people who have left wikipedia than are on - so from my perspective at least I think we should be grateful that at this juncture in time we are doing what we are and enjoy it while it lasts :)- I dont know about anybody elses opinion on this though SatuSuro 03:42, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

I would be unlikely to participate myself. Hesperian 03:54, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

If it was a topic I was interested in (and if I thought I could make a useful contribution), I'd probably participate. That said though, I've never contributed to ACOTF. Somno (talk) 07:34, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I only contributed once to ACOTF. I have a priority list of my own a mile long as it is. :) Orderinchaos 08:24, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Dan, don't be put off posting something here if you need a hand. I'm sure that most here will try to pitch in in they have time and it is of interest, but I, like others I suspect, mainly prefer to work alone. I think that informal and infrequent is best. Moondyne 08:32, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

I agree with moondynes sentiment - always call out for help when you need it - we are always here - :) SatuSuro 08:49, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Was thinking along the lines of what recently occurred with the Peak Hill or Bevan Lawrence articles, wehreby a number of editors all pitched to ensure that a WA article didn't get deleted. It doesn't have to be along such formal lines as the ACOTF - more along the lines of if there was a pressing need for a particular article to be expanded then there was a noticeboard where that was highlighted so that other editors were aware.Dan arndt (talk) 08:52, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Hey for certain issues - id drop everything but :) - but not all though SatuSuro 08:54, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Meckering Earthquake

Not that this comes as any great suprise but did you know that there doesn't appear to be any wikipedia articles on the Meckering Earthquake? - was trying to set up a wiki-link whilst I was preparing the article on Wesley Church and couldn't find anything apart from a single line on Meckering, Western Australia - I just find that amazing. Dan arndt (talk) 09:02, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

If you read the article - there are three links at which we have referred to online sources - there had been a start and if you follow the links there is a potential for a list of earthquakes in wa - the meckering one is but one of a series and as a result to do an article in comparison to the series seemed not as important at the time - the history link is very useful SatuSuro 09:10, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

The 1968 Meckering earthquake from what I can recall my parents telling me was the first big earthquake that people in Perth had ever experienced - certainly the one that caused the most damage. If you look up the UWA website it indicates that it caused the most amount of Earthquake damage until the 1989 Newcastle earthquake (which has its own article). The other two 1824 Meeberri was the largest recorded Australian earthquake but give the remoteness of the location is not as recognised. I don't know much about the Cadoux earthquake in 1979 as it doesn't seem to have had the same impact on Perth. I mean there is a Category: Earthquakes in Australia but apart from the specfic article on the Newcastle earthquake it just has the townships of Meckering, Cadoux and Calingri listed... Dan arndt (talk) 09:29, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

This seems like a continuation of a discussion Satu & I had 2 or 3 years ago. Then we thought that a single article with sections on the 3 or more major WA quakes was the way to go. Something like Earthquakes in Western Australia. It was obviously forgotten about but I reckon that would be a good way forward. Moondyne 10:50, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Changes to the WP:1.0 assessment scheme

As you may have heard, we at the Wikipedia 1.0 Editorial Team recently made some changes to the assessment scale, including the addition of a new level. The new description is available at WP:ASSESS.

• The new C-Class represents articles that are beyond the basic Start-Class, but which need additional references or cleanup to meet the standards for B-Class.
• The criteria for B-Class have been tightened up with the addition of a rubric, and are now more in line with the stricter standards already used at some projects.
• A-Class article reviews will now need more than one person, as described here.

Each WikiProject should already have a new C-Class category at Category:C-Class_articles. If your project elects not to use the new level, you can simply delete your WikiProject's C-Class category and clarify any amendments on your project's assessment/discussion pages. The bot is already finding and listing C-Class articles.

Please leave a message with us if you have any queries regarding the introduction of the revised scheme. This scheme should allow the team to start producing offline selections for your project and the wider community within the next year. Thanks for using the Wikipedia 1.0 scheme! For the 1.0 Editorial Team, §hepBot (Disable) 21:33, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Photo request: New Norcia area

If anyone's driving up that way, I'd like to get a photo of the Rica Erickson Nature Reserve which is described as being 15km south west of Calingiri [5]. Where this is exactly I haven't yet been able to find out, but my best guess is that its either near the Calingiri Rd-Great Northern Highway intersection, or about 5 or 6 kms east of there along Calingiri Rd West, possibly near where it crosses the Old Plains Road. (Calingiri Rd is about 15km south of New Norcia) Moondyne 15:05, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Location confirmed by shire. Moondyne 04:13, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

1983-1993 elections

Am currently working on articles for these state elections. If anyone has any photos or graphics in particular they'd like to let me know about, feel free :) Orderinchaos 19:31, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Hector Neil McLarty

While researching Ross McLarty I found his Uncle had an interesting life and is also notable, I've run up an article on him. Appears the McLarty family was associated with many events across WA there is at least two Hectors sons that warrant articles as does his father, and a number of their properties where the buildings have been given to the National Trust. Can people keep an eye out for McLarty's when digging through various resources and drop me a note of who/what/where when they come across stuff. I know henrietta has got 95 hits on McLarty though I suspect there will be many more. Gnangarra 17:21, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Now at AfD. Unbefuckinglievable. Hesperian 14:48, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

I made a mistake after seeing it on the COI log and seeing minimal google results and withdrew the nomination five minutes later. Give me a break. Jesus.--CyberGhostface (talk) 15:59, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Classic situation where oggle is the last referent point ever on items like this SatuSuro 16:19, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Skylab

Crashed in WA 29 years ago today. woohoo! Moondyne 08:05, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

I wonder if NASA has paid the $400 littering fine yet. Gnangarra 10:54, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Heritage Buildings, Perth

Have decided that I will diversify (away from just music related matters) and start populating some articles about heritage buildings and places in Perth - given the distinct lack and the propensity of the Government to allow what existing examples we have to be demolished by developers. Dan arndt (talk) 05:00, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Started with The Cloisters will need to reference it all before I create the article - any comments on the draft however are welcome. Dan arndt (talk) 05:09, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

VIP have a trawl and see what has already been done - there should be a table of significant buildings to give a good idea SatuSuro 05:13, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Yep its List of historic buildings in Perth, Western Australia, let me know if theres any images you need taken Gnangarra 08:46, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Trouble with creating these new articles - when I check the link with some of the existing ones - it highlights just how much work needs to be done to those to raise the standards (i.e. St George's Cathedral, Supreme Court Gardens, Perth Town Hall, St Mary's Cathedral). Dan arndt (talk) 03:41, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Don't forget the Barracks Arch and the 1910 'Terrace Tech'. Cheers Bjenks (talk) 11:04, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Hey come on, the Barracks Arch article isn't so bad! ;) The building articles are a good cause though, and I like the Cloisters article. Just needs an explanation of the statue of the man standing on the steps at the front of the building (which isn't in the picture so must be post-2006). I'd add the explanation myself but I've never stopped to read the plaque that I assume says who he is. Somno (talk) 02:21, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Oh geez, could I have written that paragraph above in a more vague and roundabout way? Hopefully you understand what I mean. Somno (talk) 02:24, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Have to agree with the fact the Barracks Arch article is in reasonable shape (particularly in comparison with others) it could possible do with some other references - I actually used it as the basis/format for my article on the Cloisters (so have to agree with Somno). Am about to embark on a couple of the others shortly such as the old Treasury Buildings, Wesley Church etc. Dan arndt (talk) 05:32, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Barracks was a significant early state of the social and informal networks and processes that eventually saw the growth of both environmental and heritage lobby groups and the process of supporting legislation - similar to the lady who stood in front of the bulldozers when they were doing the narrows bridge construction - or Randolph Stowes poem about Lord Mayor howard and his roses versus the 'dangerous gum trees (sic)' along kings park road - all these are pieces of the overall fabric of how it all evolved. and the people who were on either side of the bulldozers.

Treasury buildings on the other hand reflect a totally different thing - bogged bulldozers and nobody standing around in comparison to above - I'll leave that in the capable hands of Dan SatuSuro 05:41, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

The lady was Bessie Rischbieth, bless her heart. Another interesting one if you're interested is the old Perth Girl's School on Wellington Street, and now used as police traffic offices. Slightly newer vintage (1930s I think), but very notable. Moondyne 05:49, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Not interested to go snapping too many pics of that one :) might get questioned. The old cib offices now part of the art gallery are also an interesting not-police- now police, or police-now something else transitions SatuSuro 05:55, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

BTW Henrietta has absolutely heaps on Perth Girls School SatuSuro 06:04, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Finding more refs for Barracks Arch is on my to-do list. I just included everything I could from Building a State: the Story of the Public Works Department of Western Australia 1829-1985 before returning it to the library (two months overdue... whoops), hence the reliance on one source. Stumbled upon the ex-police-HQ, now-Art-Gallery-admin-building and Parliament House, Perth at the same time - seemed that everywhere I went on Wikipedia in January had something to do with the Public Works Department! Somno (talk) 06:17, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Drove past the old CIB - art gallery building on Friday and noticed that on the facade it actually says Police Court Building. Dan arndt (talk) 06:35, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Agreed the Barracks Arch article is v. good, Dan. Methinks it could also credit the campaign's indefatigable leader Mrs (Rae?) Oldham--mum of Sunday Times writer Jan. Work on Perth's built heritage should definitely include art deco stuff. I have to declare an interest as a life member of ADSWA and pal of its feisty founders Vyonne Geneve and Ron Facius! Cheers Bjenks (talk) 07:32, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

I agree on the Art Deco idea was trying, at first, to ensure that our early Colonial built heritage was covered but am happy to work on 'significant' buildings of all eras. Dan arndt (talk) 07:51, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Artdeco mob need an art - v impt - as they have lost so much -SatuSuro 14:14, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Am starting work on Wesley Church and the old Perth Technical School - am prepared to a have a look at the Art Deco buildings if someone wants to give me a suggested starting point or a list of potentials. Dan arndt (talk) 00:56, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Wesley Church now done onto the Tech School. Dan arndt (talk) 05:35, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Based on a suggestion will be working on the Old Perth Fire Station next. Dan arndt (talk) 01:30, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

List of Art Deco buildings in Perth

Was thinking of starting an article similar to List of historic buildings in Perth, Western Australia but covering Art Deco buildings. Have started putting together a list of buildings that would be covered by such a list (refer Art Deco Buildings in Perth). Will need some photos to get me going - any offers of help greatly appreciated. Dan arndt (talk) 08:29, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Architects

Continuing along my building theme - was thinking of putting together a list of significant Western Australian architects (such as Marshall Clifton, George Herbert Parry, Michael Cavanagh, William Leighton, Talbot Hobbs, Charles Inksep, Richard Roach Jewell, Hillson Beasely, Ross Chisholm, George Temple-Poole, Charles Lancelot Oldham, John Henry Grainger, Harold Boas, William Burden Hardwick or should this be a subcategory of Category:Australian architects or should I just include them on the List of Australian architects? Any thoughts Dan arndt (talk) 03:52, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Big problem is refs/source - otherwise like a number of other professions in the oz project overall - not enough - so more power to the idea -sub cat of oz arch's my personal pref SatuSuro 04:01, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

My 2c: Category:Western Australian architects. Hesperian 04:10, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

No longer currency - ill add 8 and agree SatuSuro 04:11, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Consider it done - in the interim I just look at adding their details to List of Australian architects then will progress to creating articles for them individually. Dan arndt (talk) 05:32, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

should James Manning, be included in this group? Gnangarra 10:29, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Convict era architects I think should take place in the architects list - vip - imho SatuSuro 10:40, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

WP:PERTH

is under discussion again at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Perth#WP:PERTH. Moondyne 05:45, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

With the ratings cleanup occuring as part of the above, I've noticed that there's no standard for WA-importance, and suburbs in particular seem to vary between low and mid. Maybe we need an /Assessment page? Some other trends I've noticed: Electoral districts of Western Australia (which needs to be updated for the one-vote, one-value redistribution) are low, Australian federal WA divisions are mid, most (but not all) city councils are mid, most (but not all) shire coucils are low. As well as rerating some start-class to C-class, I rerated Peel (Western Australia) as mid to match the other regions of Western Australia TRS-80 (talk) 09:53, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

The ratings were all done at the same time, so there is a consistency re the ratings for suburbs (not just in Perth but throughout WA). Fremantle alone has Top, Armadale, Guildford, Joondalup, Mandurah, Midland and Rockingham have High, as do all the non-metropolitan cities (each of which covers the city's own metropolitan area) and a few towns of particular note (York, Pinjarra, Margaret River, Esperance). Mid goes to about 20 suburbs which can broadly be considered district centres along with towns that fit a similar category, and all others are Low. With LGAs, City of Perth (as a Lord Mayoralty) is High, all other urban councils plus non-urban cities are Mid and all other rural councils are Low. All ratings are of course open to review, that just seemed the most sensible and consistent way to do it. There is an element of OR of course, but this is project space rather than article space, and we're really ordering it based on what is important to us as priorities - higher priority implies more of a focus (and I'd argue more of a reader focus as well). I missed Peel somehow, I remember doing the others yesterday. :) Hope that explains any perceived inconsistencies. Orderinchaos 10:32, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Yep, that pretty much explains it. Still, I wouldn't mind the rationales for various types of articles being written down somewhere, for both WP:AWB bulk edits and as a guide for new/unrated articles. TRS-80 (talk) 16:58, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Oh, and I'm onto the electoral districts. However, we can't change over until the election is called, for obvious reasons - the seats don't yet exist and the members for the existing seats are still duly elected members of the current parliament. Furthermore, all of the electoral district articles need a rewrite - I've done Perth and Murdoch and I think one other, but the others are crying out for treatment of some form. My Electorates and Politics subpages may be useful if anyone wants to assist me in this. Orderinchaos 10:34, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks heaps to Moondyne and TRS-80 for helping out with the assessments. As a result of a weekend's work we've merged the Perth and WA projects, got half the "unknowns" assessed for importance and TRS-80 has almost single-handedly created our new "C" class from the higher-end Start articles, with 145 members as at this point (up from 8 at 5pm yesterday). Well done :) Orderinchaos 06:30, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Yay! Good on ya. (Can I have my watchlist back now please?) Hesperian 06:37, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Nup. 658 currently remaining at Category:Unknown-importance Western Australia articles. Moondyne 10:52, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Never mind; it's not like I use it. Sure, I load it every five minutes, all day long, and I waste hours looking at it, but do you think I ever actually read it? Hesperian 11:35, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

All the biota ones are done now. Moondyne 13:57, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

That's a remarkable effort - well done. Dan arndt (talk) 08:00, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Lies Magazine

Is this magazine notable? I came across the article and since I'd not heard of the magazine, searched Google and Factiva for references and came up empty-handed. As the article stands now, it appears to be a bunch of original research. Does anyone know where there may be references to support notability? Thanks, Somno (talk) 01:43, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

It is marginal - I'll be in battye library next week i might just be able to save it and oggle is the last place id look :) SatuSuro 01:46, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

• At Battye but not in any of the WA uni catalogues - a bit strange for an arts magazine! Orderinchaos 02:44, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Crime in Western Australia/Update needed

I couldn't help but notice that this article needs an update. Cheers Bjenks (talk) 03:08, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

It is stuck in about ten events and nothing about much else SatuSuro 03:10, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Perth - Bunbury Highway

I ran into this article this afternoon and thought, "The good people at WP:WA may be able to do something useful with this". Cheers, Mattinbgn\^talk 04:38, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

And another - Bob Maumill -- Mattinbgn\^talk 04:56, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks :) I had a go at improving the PBH one - entirely from memory though as I'm about to run off somewhere so don't want to make myself late :) Orderinchaos 05:04, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Fixed Maumill - thanks for the tip SatuSuro 06:02, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

The West Australian - 175 Years of Headlines

Hello all - The West currently has a series of scans accessible for various important events over the last 175 years. This is a great opportunity to add information to many of our articles! For example: Meckering, the Melbourne-Evans collision, and Forrest Place. I'm not sure how long this resource will remain available, so we should make the most of it. Cheers - Gobeirne (talk) 20:34, 18 July 2008 (UTC) Still going to an article on Meckering earthquake? Dan arndt (talk) 04:44, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Just remember that the images need to be pre 01 Jan 1955, images after that date are copyrighted. The articles would be useful as sources/references to expand on various events. Gnangarra 05:57, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Kambaldawdhs (talk · contribs)

Resolved

This editor appears to be a role account. It appears to me after a few quick glances a teacher is possibly setting up a project for school students based in WA. It also looks like subpages are possibly being creating using real names of students. As I'm done for the night, can one of you WA locals look into it and act accordingly thanks? -- Longhair\^talk 12:42, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

I don't see a big problem here or any harm done. We may even recruit some new editors :-|. I'd like to leave him alone for a bit and see where it goes. Moondyne 13:17, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

I nuked the subpages, ED dept has privacy restrictions on student names I doubt Wikipedia would be an appropriate place to list them.. Gnangarra 13:30, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Fair enough. Moondyne 13:35, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for that. Privacy of minors was my main concern. Role accounts are another thing entirely and are generally not permitted. I'll be back on later and take a closer look if the account is still active. -- Longhair\^talk 22:06, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Maybe we could write to the school and suggest to them how better to do it (eg students set up their own accounts, preferably not using real names)? I've got no problem with Wiki being used as an educational resource, but I agree with the concerns raised above. Orderinchaos 22:54, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm happy to wait for their response before taking any action on the account. Good work so far guys. Thanks again. -- Longhair\^talk 01:04, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Variant spellings of Noongar, e.g., at Swan Valley Nyungah Community

(Copied from the Talk page there The top of the article Noongar lists several variant spellings of Noongar, Nyungah, etc. This is obviously a problem which will not quickly go away when the word is used by Aboriginal people of different levels of education and by non-Aboriginal journalists, lawyers, etc. I submit that Wikipedia has made a wise decision in the said article (Noongar) in adopting the most phonetically correct version. For non-Western-Australians, I should mention that the 'g' here is soft, non-fricative, as in 'hanger', though both syllables are fully pronounced, with main stress on the first, 'oo' as u in 'put'. I guess we have to stick with any different spellings which appear inside quotation marks but otherwise we can and should (imho) settle on a standard spelling which is consistently followed for the benefit of the reader. Cheers Bjenks (talk) 14:37, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

For WA Project purposes, if this has already been settled, let it be--I won't argue. Bjenks (talk) 15:40, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

A large part of the problem is that it's regional. "Nyungar" (used by nearly all Government agencies and the Kulbardi Aboriginal Centre at Murdoch University, as well as at least one community organisation) or "Nyoongar" seem to be the accepted spellings for the Perth area. The SV community themselves have incorporated with the spelling "Nyungah" - in fact, searches on Google almost exclusively turn up this community with that spelling. I don't think it's ever been subjected to terribly rigorous debate on Wikipedia - I normally disambig [[Noongar|Nyungar]] when I use it as a link. (And agree, it is soft g - when I was a law student back in the day, my fellow students who were Aboriginal pronounced it "ˈnjʊŋ.aː".) (Orderinchaos 08:39, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

If memory serves me, Ptcamn is somewhat of an expert on indigenous Australian languages. Probably more linguistics than orthography, but it is still worth asking him. Hesperian 11:19, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Orderinchaos—My own recollection (from round the campfire at the Swan Brewery, and from playwright Jack Davis and others, is more like "ˈnʊŋ.aː". As for regional dialects, we should still select one to standardise on. In the largest county, Yorkshire, they say 'Oop for t'Coop' but the encyclopedic English spelling is still [F.A.] 'Cup'. (:-)) If state govt agencies can be confirmed as using 'Nyungar', surely that gives it more authority than Robert Bropho's spelling in his past SV incorporation, or than 'Noongar', for that matter. Bjenks (talk) 15:58, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

The use of Nyungah would be correct as thats the way that community(business) spells it, providing all variants have redirects to the article then "local" area usage should be whats used and acceptable aka the UK vs US spelling. With Noongar being the more recognised/widely used spelling the main articles on the people should use that and be at that. Gnangarra 05:39, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Assessment

For your information,

• Category:Unassessed Western Australia articles; and
• Category:Unknown-importance Western Australia articles

are both currently empty. Lets keep it that way. Moondyne 12:49, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Very impressive - few projects with our potential size ever get to that SatuSuro 14:08, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

• The project currently has 3894 articles. Moondyne 16:04, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

I wonder if I can get it to 4,000? :P Orderinchaos 13:06, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Is there that many contestants from WA in the next Idol series? Gnangarra 15:51, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Not quite. The last lot haven't been voted out of the house yet. Orderinchaos 16:39, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Seems like Geoff Christian was #3900... I think I will AWB up a list of WA related footy articles soon to get us over the milestone. I won't include just anyone who's played in WA, but only those who's main notability is WA based. Interesting that the WP:AFL article count is also just under 4000... not quite as well assessed though! I think we have a bit more vandalism patrolling to do than WA has... do you get much that acacia iz So hOt!!!!1 or Mitchell Freeway sucks, Go the Kwinana! type of edits?The-Pope (talk) 21:44, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

No, we get OMG what nerd wrote this shit?!!!!! LOL Hesperian 23:36, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Keeping back on part of one of the parts of this thread - moving right along - one state close to 4000 is not bad - WP Indonesia is 4400 and counting and thats an older and more multi islanded subject so to speak - at Tassie we havent even got to 1500 even with my outragesous stubs (with help from others) SatuSuro 23:45, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Kendenup, Western Australia would be 3901 (once the bot runs) and Oakajee Port (forked off Oakajee, Western Australia can be 3902. Moondyne 01:57, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Cool. :) My random lists of politicians will probably help too - I'll eventually have term lists for every term of government since 1890. Orderinchaos 02:06, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Art Deco images

picked off a few today, even got some blue skies Gnangarra 17:06, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

• 
  Cygnet cinema in Como
• 
  Cygnet Cinema in Como
• 
  A private house in Nedlands
• 
  The Raffles hotel in Applecross
• 
  Tivoli in Applecross
• 
  Windsor Cinema in Nedlands
• 
  Art Deco building next door to the Windsor Cinema in Nedlands

Excellent - re more deco - this ams of the worst page 60 has details of the Plaza/Paris Cinema on Hay Street in the city SatuSuro 01:56, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Great work - will start work on Cygnet Theatre & Windsor Theatre articles. Dan arndt (talk) 08:31, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

• Here's a few more. These photos are a few years old now, so if someone wants to go take some better ones, that'd be great. - Gobeirne (talk) 09:04, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

• 
  Astor Cinema, Mount Lawley (old paint job)
• 
  Astor Cinema, Mount Lawley (new paint job)
• 
  Luna Cinema, Leederville
• 
  Senses Foundation building, Maylands
• 
  Lawson Apartments, Perth

• • Gallery added to List of Art Deco buildings in Perth. Moondyne 05:08, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Copyvio drive

Now that the election appears to be upon us, we have a slight problem - 49 electorate articles which are copyright violations from the ABC. The list is here. Our reliance on what is basically an opinion site is also questionable. The pages were copied over a bit over two years ago. Don't worry about whether an electorate will or will not exist after the election - the adherence with Wikipedia policy is the key object to satisfy here. Orderinchaos 05:37, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

New Sub-categories starting

• Regions of Western Australia is in the process of having sub-categories created for each region - thanks to Moondyne and Graham87 with help to standardise the format of the category page - the following request is on the category page: -

Sub-categories Please note the Kimberley region of Western Australia sub category is the first, and should be taken as a template/standard - please do not create new sub categories without recognising that the regional sub-categories are to reduce the issue of articles with very poor location information in lead sentences

If and where you are adding articles - please make sure there is a regional context or location in the lead sentences - sometime they are simply wrong or have loose things like In Western Australa. Many stubs are very difficult to place with unhelpful lead sentences - please help improve.

Quite notorious for issues is the 'North West' label - the North West Australia article is a very useful cross referencing link as well - it is not a region but an idea/concept. Noting that most 'North West' offshore locations are offshore of the Pilbara region - noting that Exmouth gulf and North West Cape are actually within the Gascoyne region.

Similarly the disambig item at Southwest,_Western_Australia if not met before is well worth checking due to the ambiguities similar to the North West

All new sub categories of regions of Western Australia are up and ready for adding to - if you havent used Hot Cat before its easy to do - and any help would be appreciated. Please do not add an article to a region unless you are sure of its asscoation or connection. However in the case of the rabbit proof fence (as an example) it goes through a number of the regions - and can have all tagged against it. Anyone who feels drawn to such an exercise, thanks - to those who have better things to do - thanks for reading this anyways. SatuSuro 08:28, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Research tool

I wonder why West Aussies have a greater interest in Wikipedia than elsewhere in Australia. Check this out [6]. Yet, if you add in SA, we're similar. Moondyne 14:38, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Art Deco

Created first article on art deco buildings in perth - Cygnet Cinema. Give recent news of its closure will start work on the Astor Cinema next. Dan arndt (talk) 03:06, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Done - working on Raffles Hotel now. Dan arndt (talk) 03:29, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Kent Street, Perth

Article was created by a student who edits/edited the Kent Street High School page. Not too sure of its notability. Five Years 15:43, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Good find. I'm not convinced either - in general, with certain exceptions, most notable roads are route-numbered. For instance, Manning Road is route 26 (should have an article, but doesn't.) Another one that doesn't, but should, is Mill Point Road. None of South Terrace, Berwick Street, Hayman Road or Hill View Terrace - all of which are a similar class to Kent Street - have articles, and I'd argue they're not notable and basically distributor roads. Will wait to see what others think. Orderinchaos 00:33, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Agree, non-notable - but the school is definitely notable. I'd {{prod}} it in case someone knows better. Moondyne 04:26, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Oh the school definitely is - we're talking about the actual street though. Orderinchaos 06:52, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I knew that. Sorry to throw in the red herring. Moondyne 07:00, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Absolutely nothing wrong with clarifying... readers of the earlier part of this discussion could have been forgiven for thinking KSSHS's days were numbered. :P Orderinchaos 07:04, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Hate to see any article deleted - is there some sort of guidelines which states only route-numbered roads are notable. Road runs through the 'Western Australian Technology Park' and alongside the Collier Park Golf Course. It is also the main address of Curtin University and forms the boundary road between the City of South Perth and the Town of Victoria Park. I'm sure with a bit of research we could come up with a bit more history behind the road. Dan arndt (talk) 07:23, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Curtin is on Hayman Rd isn't it? Anyway, I don't see these as being valid notability arguments, but there is no guideline for roads and streets I know of, so, if you think you can make a good argument, use {{hangon}} or try to improve it. Moondyne 07:40, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Curtin is on Hayman Road, and re orders comments - if there is no specific notability guideline - I can think of a number of city/metro roads roads that have

1. sufficient number of hits within henrietta's catalogue - viz either historical photos and or articles or mention in books # sufficient adjacent issues (buildings, issues of heritage sites, notable properties, historical associations with people or events)
2. actual references/citeable items from (a) and (b) outside or inside of the heritage council pdfs
3. where a road is an intrinsic thing of being a border, a physical feature or riverside delineating space -

In the event of a non feeder road that goes up as a new art - on the criteria that I have just stated, any notability rubbish from another country, context or culture IMHO should be ignored and we should give credit due where it is and not a guideline from elsewhere (now where is that article about elsewhere) SatuSuro 08:47, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, like I said, the route numbering is only a guide - without it, it would have to have some intrinsic notability through history or controversy or some other such thing. The reason route numbers are important is they essentially are "state routes" which Main Roads has committed to maintain from a particular section of their budget. This suggests that they have some importance within the state. Nearly all other roads (even fairly major ones like Beach Road) are maintained by local councils. A road being built is not in and of itself history. Additionally, what's on it doesn't necessarily help - otherwise Radium Street in Bentley and Royal Street in East Perth would require articles. Orderinchaos 10:58, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Peter Anthony Gugeri

Anyone any idea who he was and why the West might have ridiculed his political ideas (in fact, even the fact he nominated at all in the 1911 election)? The West as usual is pretty vague on its reasons, and I'm not seeing references in other publications. He only got 2.83% in the constituency anyway, but yeah. Orderinchaos 19:44, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Dunno much except that he was a Perth City Councillor and had a vineyard in Mundaring. Where is the West ridiculing him? Moondyne 01:13, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Well, was ridiculing him 97 years ago. :) See my talk page for the exact quote. Orderinchaos 01:19, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

I've come in late as usual. If he was a Perth City Councillor with some controversial notions, then there is some chance that he will be covered in Stannage's social history of Perth; I'll have a look tonight. Hesperian 01:34, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Nothing in Stannage. Hesperian 10:53, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

P.S. That quote seems to me not to be ridiculing his political ideas, but rather chiding him for either nominating at the last minute, or not campaigning until the last minute. Hesperian 01:43, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

I may have miscomprehended it - I was taking the "hoarded wisdom" comment to be a sarcastic jab. Orderinchaos 01:45, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

I think its an allusion to Tennyson. Hesperian 02:21, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Ah okay. On an unrelated note, any idea about what the story was with the brief Bullfinch gold rush and construction of the railway to it? The 1910 papers are all raving about it then the 1911 papers which favour Labor (the collection of sources for this article has been truly an undertaking in filtering extreme bias in pretty much all the newspapers in one direction or another!) basically suggest it was a scam of some sort promoted by speculators, and even some suggestions the Moore-Wilson Government had been involved in it. From reading the 1910 Hansards surrounding the act establishing the railway and the act appropriating finance to it, they were certainly advocates in the strongest terms for it, which I'm guessing came back to bite them later. Orderinchaos 02:32, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

I got nothin'. Hesperian 11:00, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

I'll keep looking then. I'll probably have to look more closely at the Kalgoorlie newspapers, which generally were antipathetic to the government and try and construct a timeline I can go back to The West with. There's also two published histories of Bullfinch, but both are a lot more recent and one is by the shire council, the other by a mining company, so not sure whether they will shed any more light on it. Orderinchaos 11:02, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

(In case anyone's wondering, the "article" I mention I'm working on is Western Australian state election, 1911.) Orderinchaos 11:04, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Hesperian Press, which is neither a council nor a mining company, published Bullfinch and the Yilgarn goldfield last year. There is also an entry in Battye's Cyclopedia of Western Australia, (Volume 2 page 350) which was published in 1812-1813; perfect timing! Hesperian 11:08, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

You do mean 1912-1913? Gnangarra 11:19, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Indeed I do; thanks. Hesperian 11:30, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Ah, fantastic. I'll see what I can turn up tomorrow then. Orderinchaos 11:22, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Still a mystery re Bullfinch - both Battye and other sources seem to think it worked out as a project. Orderinchaos 23:47, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

would he also be the source for the name of Gugeri st in Claremomt? Gnangarra 07:34, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Could well be. I looked up today and all I could find out is he was a JP and clerk of courts in Guildford and later in Midland Junction. Orderinchaos 11:12, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

I've got dead ends here. A phone call to Mundaring and Hills Historical Society might be worthwhile. Moondyne 12:53, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Too many colons here - It wouldnt necessarily (phone call) - give me a day or two and I will have all the stuff - hadnt realised this thread has gone so long without realising I have the appropriate material on tap about him SatuSuro 13:05, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Perth rental prices

Just getting some extra eyes onto the Perth talk page - a good faith user has raised the question of how we add this or the fact that some sources consider it a crisis. I wasn't aware that it wasn't already there, but the fact it isn't means we can get it right first time :) As we all know rentals are difficult to source due to a lack of authoritative reliable sources. Probably best to centralise any discussion there. Orderinchaos 18:59, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Pilbara notes

I think (in the midst of a curiosity-inspiring minerals boom) we have some work to do on Pilbara#Ports which has an embarrassing number of red links. Also, I've discovered a rather unfunny bit o' garbage in Dampier, Western Australia#History which I'll let you see before I or its [author] get rid of it. Cheers Bjenks (talk) 09:27, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

I think that it shows some imagination myself. Dan arndt (talk) 09:32, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

It does indeed - almost right for Uncyclopedia, actually. Orderinchaos 10:44, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

I was wondering if Pier August Bohr was related to Harald August Bohr ;} Gnangarra 10:46, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Definitely not Niels Bohr - and it would almost certainly get edited out of unencyclopedia by the egomaniacs there SatuSuro 11:58, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

That's a multi-edit diff; Rjwilmsi wasn't the vandal. Hesperian 00:13, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Requested articles

In the requested articles section of the to-do list, Alf Barbagallo is listed. Does anyone know if this means the man or the company? I thought it meant the man, but Google has nothing on him (aside from some supercar statistics [7]), just the company. I know Google's not the be all and end all; I was looking for a starting point. ;) Thanks, Somno (talk) 02:16, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Any article on Alf Barbagallo would probably be a defamation magnet. Not that I'm saying he does or doesn't warrant an article. - Mark 05:59, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

His association with motor racing in WA is notable, the question is sources its an either-or/both dependent on what the sources offer. I ran into the same issue with finding sources before I listed him. Gnangarra 06:54, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

[8] FYI there is one that has potential for a start point Gnangarra 06:57, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

• [9] and Gnangarra 06:58, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Stubs with sufficiently public domain access refs cannot be defamation magnets ergo sum - or some might be so dumb SatuSuro 06:59, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

• looking the recent google hits its one that going to have to be watched, Gnangarra 08:08, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

I'll be happy to watch it, if/when it gets off the ground... There should be some sort of law banning people from naming companies after themselves, simply because it makes writing Wikipedia articles difficult. Somno (talk) 01:48, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Royalties for Regions policy

I've put this together as I believe this is going to be, one way or another, a big deal economically in coming years. If you all consider it too newsy, I'm happy to reconsider. Moondyne 15:56, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

I agree with you. I think this is going to be an ongoing policy with lots of discussion and impact - just the fact that it's caused so much fuss already is worth noting in an article! Somno (talk) 01:33, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia 0.7 articles have been selected for Western Australia

Wikipedia 0.7 is a collection of English Wikipedia articles due to be released on DVD, and available for free download, later this year. The Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team has made an automated selection of articles for Version 0.7.

We would like to ask you to review the articles selected from this project. These were chosen from the articles with this project's talk page tag, based on the rated importance and quality. If there are any specific articles that should be removed, please let us know at Wikipedia talk:Version 0.7. You can also nominate additional articles for release, following the procedure at Wikipedia:Release Version Nominations.

A list of selected articles with cleanup tags, sorted by project, is available. The list is automatically updated each hour when it is loaded. Please try to fix any urgent problems in the selected articles. A team of copyeditors has agreed to help with copyediting requests, although you should try to fix simple issues on your own if possible.

We would also appreciate your help in identifying the version of each article that you think we should use, to help avoid vandalism or POV issues. These versions can be recorded at this project's subpage of User:SelectionBot/0.7. We are planning to release the selection for the holiday season, so we ask you to select the revisions before October 20. At that time, we will use an automatic process to identify which version of each article to release, if no version has been manually selected. Thanks! For the Wikipedia 1.0 Editorial team, SelectionBot 22:34, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

• Discussion on this at /0.7 articles. Moondyne 06:00, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

List of homesteads in Western Australia

Since we started checking values entered as coordinates against possible values, various entries in the above lists showed up due to a rounding problem. Values rounded to 60' should be rendered as 1°00' rather than 0°60'.

As a sample, the entry for "17 Mile Outcamp" on List of homesteads in Western Australia: 0-9 lists "24°6′S, 115°60′E" instead of "24°6′S, 116°00′E".

Note that clicking on the coordinates works as the coordinates extension converts the values. -- User:Docu

No news is <subliminal>delete the portal</subliminal> bad news

Apparently nothing has happened in Western Australia since 7 August. Hesperian 02:54, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Gives a whole new meaning to "Dullsville" :D Orderinchaos 02:55, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

15 people per day look at it, more than this page. Moondyne 07:16, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

That surprises me; thankyou for that insight. The fact that it isn't being maintained remains a problem, and sorry guys, I think I'll continue to be a nag. Hesperian 10:58, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Suppose hes been waiting for my response too - bah - i know of portals untouched for 10 months that still exist and havent been trashed - give it a break SatuSuro 08:33, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Clearly you people are very susceptible to subliminal messaging. :-) Hesperian 10:55, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Updated. Should we move the to-do list out? cygnis insignis 21:49, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

It's recommended that portals have to-do lists to encourage user participation. Somno (talk) 04:56, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Specially low activity ones :) SatuSuro 05:08, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Exactly... you never know if one of those 15 viewers might want to create an article on Western Australia's flora or constitution. ;) Somno (talk) 05:57, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

ok I get the hint, will finish it this weeeek Gnangarra 08:09, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm going to do a series of articles on WA constitutional framework and political history as soon as I can find the time. I have most of the material here for it. Orderinchaos 08:14, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Have updated the new articles created table - so hopefully that gives an idea of how active editors are in respect to WA - not a bad effort (and that's only the ones that I was aware of). Dan arndt (talk) 05:43, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Flora of Western Australia is now in main space Gnangarra 14:14, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Real estate prices

I'd like to see if we can form a consensus with regards to these within the Perth area. Basically the problem is that I have historically maintained them every three months in the various spots in which they exist (which is not comprehensive for all suburbs) but due to time pressures in late 2007 and throughout 2008, I have not. As such, they're now over a year out of date in most articles which contain them. There have been arguments put in the past that such figures may even be unencyclopaedic. I'm wondering if we should strip them out where they exist unless they're directly relevant to the article and its contents. Orderinchaos 01:00, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Oh and if someone could look into Atwell, Western Australia, I'd be most grateful. Orderinchaos 01:59, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

I think they're a useful statistic about the socioeconomic status of the particular area, and I think it would be a shame to lose them. Better to keep updating. Rebecca (talk) 03:01, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Who's going to do the work? 435 articles, once every three months. In both smaller and in some established suburbs, the statistic is meaningless, too, as it relates only to current home sales. Orderinchaos 03:03, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

The encyclopedic value may/may not be dubious - I think it probably is. Don't know if its really socioeconomic data in the same sense as the local area ABS census data. As I understand it, the data from REIWA.com.au is based on the median/mean of recent sales - so the values are a bit problematic, and appear not to be regularly updated at the source. GlenDillon 03:17, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Sounds like perfect work for a bot. Another suburb fact that needs updating is the population - lots are still stuck with 2001 census values. Anyone know of a wikipedia bot that's easy to modify for this sort of thing? TRS-80 (talk) 05:34, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

I'm in the process of getting in the 2006 data for population and also the state electorates as we speak. As for bot-updating real estate prices, the REIWA site not only changes with the wind but their DB query options use a number system which has nothing to do with the name, so we'd have to lug pages up with random codes (which may change on a whim) just to get it to work. Not ideal. Orderinchaos 05:49, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

• IMHO I dont think the current average sale prices really offer much encyclopedia value, what would be better is the yearly figures by the Valuer Generals department from which the LGA's use to calculate rates. REIWA figure are too easily affected by variants in what properties are on the market thats why many western burbs have big variants and negative movements between periods. Gnangarra 06:43, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Landgate is the source. Gnangarra 06:55, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Paspaley and Nicholas Paspaley Senior

It seems we have two near identical articles, both of which are largely plagiarised from the company website. At least one is notable, but which? Or do we need both? Moondyne 13:35, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

They're probably both notable, but there's no point having duplicate articles. I agree with what you've just done i.e. redirect the man to the company. This can be undone if and when we uncover enough verifiable information on him to warrant a disdinct article. Hesperian 13:43, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Protected areas of Western Australia

This list contains some interesting statistics in the lead, and groups the areas into different categories, but I cannot find an online reference to support it, or explain what the meaning of the different areas are. I suspect it was created from a page on the old CALM website which has now gone. I also wouldn't be surprised if many changes to the lists/s have happened since it was created in 2002 (a fairly early WP article). I think that it is an important list to keep up to date, as it acts as an index to articles we have and need. How can we fix it? Comments? Moondyne 14:26, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Note, I am aware of [10] but it seems incomplete. Moondyne 14:31, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

marine [11] this is probably the more active area of recent times Gnangarra 15:05, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Indigenous areas at Federal enviroment appears to have an extensive pdf, again dated as of 2004 :{ and this one for statistical info shows around 16% of WA is protected for various reasons. Gnangarra 15:07, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Googling I also struck dead links to Collaborative Australian Protected Areas Database - CAPAD will dig some more, and viola CAPAD Gnangarra 15:13, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Because of the amount of work to fix it - probably get rid of it and make better lists of the national parks and etc -

• because of the name changes and various tweaks the recent government changes make such a long list unmanageable * despite the fact the other states have similar articles (in most cases with heaps of red links unlikely to ever be completed)
• i think better to have nat parks, reserves, etc as separate lists/ articles for manageability

However have noted Moondynes comment its worth having as an index base/list - problem is that even DEC cannot keep their info in order very well - it might - if enough people put enough time into it - be better than anything than the agency has in open web space SatuSuro 00:18, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

I'd support having separate WP lists. The latest lists I've now found are 2004 terrestrial and marine & external (detailed report tab). DEC's major groupings seem to be

• National Parks(95)
• Marine parks and reserves(15)
• Regional parks(8)
• Conservation parks(12)
• Nature reserves(13)
• Forest recreation areas(14)
• Other recreation areas(6)

The Feds CAPAD lists group as

• Conservation Park
• Miscellaneous Conservation Reserve
• National Park
• Nature Reserve
• Other Private Protected Area
• Indigenous Protected Area
• Marine Nature Reserve
• Marine Park

The whole business seems rubbery to me—I would have thought these places would be gazetted and officially listed somewhere. I'd also have hoped for a clear definition of the groups, but I think I now have enough to work on. Thanks. Moondyne 03:10, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

You may find http://www.wdpa.org useful. Hesperian 03:55, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

There are also RAMSAR sites and World Heritage sites. Hesperian 03:58, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

The template of National Parks of South Australia might given an idea or two - a lot depends on a particular states hierarchy of areas under the current legislation as to what is a NAt Park, reserve etc i suppose SatuSuro 06:50, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Usage of link to FallingRainMaps

Over a series of articles and old railway locations in WA I have encountered what I consider substandard if not misleading maps links placed at old railway localities articles.

I have put a comment at Northampton, Western Australia as about the third or fourth time that I have tackled the issue - and consider that other WA project editors might wish to either check the veracity of the maps, my comments to the editor, and the general expectation of maps links.

I think that they look like looking through the bottom of thick based drinking glass, on a rainy day in a tin shed with door closed, with a blunt stick scratched on a rusty tin sheet for a map. Maybe I have been spoilt by the high quality of local editors made maps but they leave me wanting to scratch the side of some glass with a fork. SatuSuro 02:19, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

The main problem with fallingrain, apart from the amazing number of errors and out-of-date data I have located in WA, is the fact we have no idea where their data is sourced from. We should be able to trust not only our sources but our source's sources too... that's what makes them reliable. The "credits" link at the bottom of http://www.fallingrain.com/world is broken. Orderinchaos 02:52, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

While we're on the subject, I've nominated Falling Rain Genomics for deletion. Hesperian 06:41, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Electoral region of South West

I am planning to rewrite all of our six region articles and am doing this one first as a template, as it's relatively easy compared to the others due to a lack of countbacks (the Upper House equivalent to byelections). One bit I am having trouble with though is how to represent the historical members. On one-seat electorates it's easy - see Nedlands for one example. But when we have seven at the same time, what's the best approach? If you can think of something, either suggest it here or even be bold if you wish ... I've left all the data in the relevant section inside comment tags. Orderinchaos 13:49, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

• What about something like example 1, noting that the format for MB-L doesnt want to play, though its probably something I did Gnangarra 14:59, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

I think the way to expand would be by adding new member to the bottom of the list rather than alpha, and party sorting Gnangarra 15:01, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks ... that is a pretty good one! (The problem btw was just the lack of a space between width=15 and the {{.) Orderinchaos 09:29, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Formatted it into the article, add foot notes on dates and on Paddy Embry the source data provided says he was one nation then ind then new country party, added a foot note to match though it probable needs a bit more info Gnangarra 14:16, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks very much for that :) Much appreciated. I've done minor tweaking to get it into shape, and copied in the note from the member list for Embry. Orderinchaos 14:32, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

example 1

Seven member seat
Member	Party	89-93	93-97	97-01	01-05	05-09
Beryl Jones	Labor
John Cowdell	Labor
Matt Benson-Lidholm	Labor
Bob Thomas	Labor
Dr Chrissy Sharp	Greens
Barry House	Liberal

Std Format

• Raw formatting of table as used in the article for ease of copying

		Seven member seat					Six member seat
Member	Party	1989-93	1993-97	1997-01	2001-05	2005-09	2009–13[a]	2013-17[b]
name	party	89	93	97	01	05	09	13

Notes

^a Members serving for the 2009–2013 term were elected in 2008 but do not take their seats in Parliament until 22 May 2009.

^b next term of office

response

example 1 looks good from where i look at it SatuSuro 04:33, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Citibank House

Hi all. I'm planning to start a new article on the building which is apparently currently known as "Chancery House" "Citibank House", but which is better known as "that white stripey building on the corner of Barrack St and St Georges Tce with the Citibank logo on top" (see Google StreetView of it). It was built in 1962 as the "T&G Building", named after the T & G Mutual Life Assurance Society, and as far as I can tell was the tallest building in Perth upon its completion. It replaced the "T&G Chambers" which was a grand old building on the site. Here are some photos of the skyscraper in its original state in the LISWA pictorial collection:

• The Esplanade Tea Rooms and kiosk with Lawson Flats and the T & G Building in the background
• T&G Building, 37 St George's Terrace, Perth
• New T & G building, 37 St George's Terrace, close to completion
• New T & G Building, completed
• Looking east along St George's Terrace, elevated view
• The T & G building, 37 St George's Terrace

The building there looks substantially (structurally) different to the building which now stands on the site (including what seems to be a whole extra floor and top added to the top of the building), but it turns out it's actually the same building, refurbished some time in the 1980s because planning laws had changed and the building couldn't be replaced with one the same size due to the small block size. That's what this 1987 article says, anyway.

At some stage before the building had the Citibank logo on it, but after it was refurbished, it bore the Aussie Home Loans logo.

If anyone has any information about this building, or can donate old photos of it, I would greatly appreciate it.

Incidentally, I also found this interesting article about the BankWest Tower, which shows how (subtly) different the plan was from the finished product (and it also explains why there's a flat surface at the top where the Bond logo was planned to go). - Mark 15:28, 3 November 2008 (UTC) Edited 08:32, 4 November 2008 (UTC) by Mark

St Geo's terrace tallest building in the early to mid 60's i though was the mlc building which used to have the time/temp/ or weather in lights at the top - which you could see from south perth - thats west of the old perth tech buildings - so the t and g as tallest seems odd from my ref point - but hey maybe someone else has the info SatuSuro 08:40, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

The MLC Building is now (after major renovations and structural changes in the 1990s) the Kingsgate Apartments. Only 36 metres high, though, compared to 68m for the T&G Building. Thanks for pointing out the MLC Building to me, I am now going to write an article on that too. :) - Mark 13:09, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

The T&G housed the Perth Building Society just before it was absorbed into Challenge Bank in the late 80s. I vaguely recall the building with a PBS sign at the top. Moondyne 13:44, 4 November 2008 (UTC) On reflection I think it may have been Town and Country Building Society offices. Moondyne 08:04, 5 November 2008 (UTC)