Wikipedia talk:Templates

Newline stripping in template code in articles

@Ita140188: Is there a reason why some editors strip the newlines in templates in a article ? An example. I find less cumbersome to maintain (adding archiving lines or recovering dead links, etc.) the templates aligned as done for the infoboxes. Are there any rules or a consensus about that ? --Robertiki (talk) 04:21, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

@Robertiki: Hello, I am not aware of consensus on this issue (although there may be), but I find it very hard to edit an article where text is constantly cut by citations in multiple lines. I personally prefer to have a new line for each sentence with references called at the end of the sentence. Also I don't think many people edit references by hand, so I am not sure how useful this is (isn't recovering dead links/archiving done by bots?). Anyway, better still it would be to define all references (also with new lines in this case) in the references section and then only call the reference name in the body of the article. --Ita140188 (talk) 20:49, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

Should a navbox point to templates?

Input would be appreciated at Template_talk:COVID-19#Pointing_to_templates. Our coronavirus navbox points to a lot of raw templates. Is that appropriate? Bondegezou (talk) 09:48, 19 February 2020 (UTC)

Refs in templates

I see Refs transcluded into articles from templates as a problem, and I have a proposal for addressing this. From the sparse content of the project page, I'm concerned that it might not be widely watched. Would this be the best venue for discussing this? If not, what would be a better venue? Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 11:03, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

There are 248 watchers. What's the proposal? -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 12:52, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

Actually, this is one leg of a three-legged stool I have in mind. The proposal is to mandate, or at least to strongly suggest, that in templates e.g., {{efn|group={{{ref_group|upper-roman}}}|content of the footnote}} be used instead instead of using e.g., <Ref>content of the footnote</Ref>, and that {{{ref_group}}} be provided as an optional invocation parameter by templates doing this. This would allow articles transcluding templates which provide Refs to place those Refs into a group set aside for them by the article transcluding the template and expanding the Refs it produces with {{reflist|group=whatever}} under the control of the article transcluding the template.

FYI, an example (one of many) of a template providing refs is {{COVID-19 testing}}; that template provides 100+ references. It is currently transcluded by only one article, but such templates might be (commonly are) transcluded by multiple separate articles, and individual articles might have different preferences about where and how to expand the lists of references produced by transcluded templates.

The second leg of that three-legged stool would be to suggest an enhancement to the Cite extension to provide an additional optional parameter, perhaps named group-prefix, and related support for separate prefixed groups. To illustrate what I have in mind here: {{efn|group-prefix=A|group=lower-roman}} would produce a Ref group with references numbered [Ai], [Aii], etc., and {{efn|group-prefix=B|group=lower-roman}} would produce a Ref group with references numbered [Bi], [Bii], etc. This might be used to separately expand lists of Refs produced by separate templates.

(inserted) (Requested at https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T250112) Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 20:47, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 14:28, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

Maybe a note to this discussion at Wikipedia:Village pump (technical) would get more eyeballs here. -- Michael Bednarek ([[User taThanks. WP:VPP#Refs in templates. There had been preliminary exchanges leading to this discussion here in both of those places. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 07:40, 12 April 2020 (UTC)lk:Michael Bednarek|talk]]) 01:35, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

I've added mention of this discussion at WP:VPT#template parameters vs ref tag arguments and at WP:VPP#Refs in templates. There had been preliminary exchanges leading to this discussion here in both of those places. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 07:40, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

Do style concerns require that source citations never be transcluded from in templates until those concerns are resolved?

The problem with all refs placed in article by templates is consistency of style. If the article already has fully consistent CS2 citations, for example, it is wrong to add a whole bunch of CS1 citations. References should not be added by templates unless and until there is a mechanism for adjusting styles. Peter coxhead (talk) 07:57, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

I understand your concern, it is a concern about style. WP:MOS is a guideline, while WP:V is a policy; see WP:RULES#Role. I don't think that the question of whether to cite supporting sources within templates is up for negotiation; rather, the discussion here is about how a particular proposal for how the citation of supporting sources done from within templates can be improved. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 16:43, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

@Wtmitchell: the "how" improvement must include fixing the citation style issue. Manually, one approach is to ensure that all templates that generate refs include a mode parameter that can be set to choose cs1/cs2, date formats, including separate ones for access & archive dates, etc. WP:V does not require templates to generate refs, only that material in articles is supported by refs, which can be added separately. Generation of duplicate refs is another problem. I do not accept that refs should ever be added to articles by templates unless and until style and duplication issues are fixed. Peter coxhead (talk) 19:50, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

I see your point, and it probably merits discussion. However, the question of whether source citations should be allowed to be transcluded from templates (they are) is irrelevant to this discussion. This discussion presumes that citations are transcluded from templates (as they often are), and concerns a specific proposal to allow them to be better handled by transcluding articles when they do appear. I've added a couple of subheadings here to separate the discussion of your point from the discussion of the proposal I've sketched out above.

Presuming that source citations are transcluded from templates, what about this proposal?

Above, I've proposed cites in templates be done using something like {{efn}} but with a couple of added parameters to specify group (now) and prefix (later); both parameters being optional. It occurs to me that doing that in two stages could lead to the need for revisions in lots of templates when support for the prefix parameter appears. To avoid this, I'll suggest that a new helper template be made available for citing sources in templates; let's call it {{Tcite}} for now. It would have the group and prefix parameters mentioned previously, perhaps named or aliased to p and g for brevity, and would throw an error if the p parameter were specified before support for it appeared. So, Proposed: {{Tcite|p|g|[...]|content of citation}}, and proposed that this be mandated or strongly suggested. Discussion? Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 13:15, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

Especially in the case of the COVID-19 articles referred to above, I'd like to avoid any more wrapper templates if possible. As an example, {{2019–20 coronavirus pandemic data}} has 292 references, and those references alone contribute 462kB to the post-expand include size (excluding the rest of the template). Adding a wrapper would essentially double that, causing a majority of the dozen or so pages that use that template to exceed the post-expand include size limit. --Ahecht (TALK
PAGE) 22:33, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

Alternative which preserves WP:V

It seems to me that the best alternative, in many cases, is keep the references on the template page and not transclude them onto the pages where the template is used. Verifiability is preserved as long as it is enforced on the template, and the article using it is not cluttered. It's similar to the situation with images, for instance a map will usually be cited on the image description page not in the article. This would not be suitable for all transclusions (for instance, text and simpler tables) but it would avoid the need to transclude massive amounts of references that are being transcluded into coronavirus-related articles in particular. buidhe 11:43, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

Yes, this is what I have previously tried to communicate. It would be a little work to set up here but it would make each of the articles much smaller. --Izno (talk) 17:03, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

I think not. The lead sentence of WP:V says: "In the English Wikipedia, verifiability means other people using the encyclopedia can check that the information comes from a reliable source." (emphasis mine). It is not reasonable to expect casual WP users to dig down into template and imagefile pages to discover whatever source citations may be present there. That would, I think, violate the spirit of V. The second paragraph of V says, "All quotations, and any material whose verifiability has been challenged or is likely to be challenged, must include an inline citation that directly supports the material." (again, emphasis mine). Not respecting that would, I think, violate the letter of V.

I think that both of these are problems which need attention, even though they look messy to solve.

The solutions I have proposed to the problem with refs in templates (the first two legs of that three legged stool I mentioned) would provide the transcluding article a large measure of control at the transcluding article level over how refs from transcluded templates are presented to the user. The third leg of that stool would do the same thing for images/files. I haven't mentioned that third leg yet or thought it out very well but, as I visualize it now, that would be to mandate that refs supporting assertions made by images be expressed in a manner that would allow them to be transcluded just like refs in templates -- preferably in the image description material. I'm guessing that it wouldn't be horribly complex to make the refs supporting file:Lab-specimens-tested.jpg transcludable as {{File:Lab-specimens-tested.jpg|optional_parameters}} (if supporting sources were cited there, that is). That would all need some discussion to get it from a first-cut proposal to something implementable, though. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 16:45, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

other people using the encyclopedia can check that the information comes from a reliable source Which can still be done since the template provides a convenient "see template link" in the top left corner of the template (if you must, include an <ref> after the caption of the table that makes it obvious for the interested user). If we keep the citations in the template alone, the template still has an inline citation, if we want to get into letters and spirit.

More fundamentally though, we do not build software, nor do we abuse the existing software, nor do we give leave in policy and guideline to do so, for the pathological 0.001% of cases, which is what this case is. You can make it work without any of that and have been provided multiple routes to do so. Pick one and move on. --Izno (talk) 18:56, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

Are there anyway we could create template just only for one page?

I have seen a page that have unique table layout but reuse that same layout multiple times. Such as a table of information specific in that page separate by year, that layout never being used anywhere else

So I wish I could create a hidden block and then reuse that block like a template instead of duplicating the same layout or requiring to create page for new template

Is it possible?

Also, do we have a filter table? A table that could filter row by text, option, or datepicker would be great for lookup data — Preceding unsigned comment added by ThainaYu (talk • contribs) 07:43, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

Need help creating template

I'm trying to create a template for CBC Radio programs at Template:CBC Radio Programs (current and upcoming) but I've malformed the template somehow and don't know how to fix it. Can someone please help? Thanks Sowny (talk) 23:19, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

Sowny, in some of the places where template {{small}} was used, one of the two closing curly braces was missing. Fixed: Special:Diff/977101719. Consider turning on syntax highlighting in the wikitext editor—button . —⁠andrybak (talk) 23:29, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

Group of users interested in changes to CSS

Watchers of this page may be interested in Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Accessibility § Group of users interested in changes to CSS. Izno (talk) 22:07, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

Altitude

Is there a template that receives a geographical coordinate and returns the altitude of that point ? Otherwise, who could create template:Altitude ? --YB ^✍ 13:18, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

This would require having access to DTED or similar for arbitrary coordinates, which is out of the realm of feasible for onwiki. It might be possible with an extension or in the GeoHack system that you can access when you click on the coordinates link created by {{coordinates}}. Izno (talk) 20:42, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

Thx Izno for the return. Too bad, it would be nice to have such a fonctionality for infobox templates and lists. --YB ^✍ 11:00, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

Where can I talk about the template ideas?

I was editing a page and I wanted to use a template that fits my purposes. But whatever I do, I couldn't find the template in my mind. I know there's a page where users can share their ideas about userbox in their mind. Does a similar thing exist?

Pinchey (talk) 18:54, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

Proposal to merge auto archiving notice into talk header

 You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2021 May 13 § Template:Auto archiving notice. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 03:19, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

Transferring a template from the English wikipedia to the french wikipedia?

must be explained somewhere but can't find it and merits to be enlisted here so all templates / template coders gather here their templates that are usefull in all wikipedias whatever the language. For example, in the french the auto generation of a Table of Content from 4 sections is not implemented, nor the "(come) Help Me" template. Don't undstand why. Thy, SvenAERTS (talk) 13:29, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

@SvenAERTS: Each Wikipedia is its own community with its own set of rules and content. That said, I've thought about this issue before, and even how to facilitate internationalization of templates, so that only strings would have to be translated and the critical code that should be protected would remain the same. But to your specific question: if you want some English template translated/created for French Wikipedia, then either do it yourself, or enlist someone (at French Wikipedia, not here) to do it for you. With respect to the {{Help Me}} template at en-wiki, this exists already at fr-wiki, and is called fr:Modèle:SOS. It's marked "obsolete", and has instructions for using the newbie forum instead, so it may have been a conscious decision to deprecate this. Hope this helps, Mathglot (talk) 02:41, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

Announcing template Wiktionarylang

New Template:Wiktionarylang may be used to add a small box flush right with a link to a term in a foreign language wiktionary. If you're familiar with {{Wikisourcelang}}, the operation of the new template is similar, and uses the same four positional parameters, and adds one more to allow you to specify 'section' (as in this example), 'paragraph', and so on instead of 'article'. Mathglot (talk) 02:44, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

Add talksection parameter to article maintenance tags

It would be useful if article maintenance tags that include an instruction to the effect of "Please discuss this issue on the article's talk page" had a talksection parameter, so that once a discussion has begun, it could be set to the title of the talk page section that's been created, and the words "talk page" could link directly there. Largoplazo (talk) 22:24, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

international

hello on the dutch pages templates are factual UNknown. i am usualy punished within a DAY for starting new subjects and the ONLY 'template' technicly USED is the 2weeks notice to "f#k0ff" becouse "its not encyclopedic". my personal statement AGAINST that way off thinking is that if you cut down all branches off a tree, its a dead stem instead... my remark,now is that the are are miles off difference in the aproach between the different wiki-languages. https://nl.wiki.x.io/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates 85.149.83.125 (talk) 18:08, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

• I really don't know what you are trying to say, but a quick look at nl:Wikipedia:Sjablonen proves they do use them. Drmies (talk) 18:12, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
  • dankj, dan wordt het tijd dat deze sjablonen daadwerkelijk gebruikt worden. mvg 85.149.83.125 (talk) 18:13, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

Using parenthetical plurals in Infoboxes

Should I use parenthetical plurals in a template?

I.e. "Color(s)" instead of "Color" or "Colors" when there may be more than one option? Hugtrain (talk) 02:20, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

For the section the page is in, toggle on show

Hi, would it be possible to toggle on show the section the page using the template is in automatically? This makes the template’s appearance much more understandable to the reader. Is there just some code someone could change to do this uniformly? Alexanderkowal (talk) 20:21, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Alexanderkowal, can you restate your question, please? If you are talking about a particular template, can you link it below? Mathglot (talk) 20:29, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

I am speaking very generally. I think the default state of the template should be with the section which the page is in toggled on 'show'. So for Trumpism and the neo-fascism template, toggle on show "Varieties" by default. This makes the template's relevance to the page much more understandable for the reader. Alexanderkowal (talk) 20:38, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

If you pose your question at the right venue, you are more likely to attract editors who can best help with your particular question. In the case of the Trumpism page, the use of the {{neo-fascism}} sidebar template with all subgroups collapsed is the default setting. This is a content-related question about the appearance of a particular page, i.e., Trumpism, and you are welcome to start a discussion about it at Talk:Trumpism to see if you can get support for that idea, or to make a bold edit. If you meant that the {{neo-fascism}} sidebar template should always expand list2 ("Varieties") by default regardless where it appears, then you should take that up at at Template talk:Neo-fascism. If you mean that the {{neo-fascism}} sidebar template should expand by default the list containing {{PAGENAME}} as one of the entries in the list, that should also be discussed at Template talk:Neo-fascism; and if you mean to generalize that to all collapsed sidebar templates wherever they appear, then you can raise that at Template talk:Sidebar with collapsible lists. If one of those applies, using {{Moved discussion to}} / {{Discussion moved from}} may help link the discussions as you start the new one elsewhere. If it's something else, please clarify. Mathglot (talk) 21:09, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Moved to Template talk:Sidebar with collapsible lists § For the section the page is in, toggle on show

Mathglot (talk) 21:43, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Template_talk:IMDb#imdbcompany

Attention from someone who knows how to edit templates would be good. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:44, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

How to move a template with many subpages?

Per the TfD discussion,^[1] Template:Automatic archive navigator should move over to {{archive}}. Since {{archive}} already exists, and {{Automatic archive navigator}}[2] and its module[3] have a lot of subpages, what is the best practice? Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 23:40, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

Discussion at WP:VPM

Hi, can someone with a good knowledge of template coding have a look at my request at Wikipedia:Village pump (miscellaneous) § Template:Permanent dead link? Thanks! — AP 499D25 (talk) 12:13, 29 August 2024 (UTC)