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Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates/December 2021

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December 31

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December 31, 2021 (2021-12-31) (Friday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Health and environment

(Posted) RD: Joe Comuzzi

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Article: Joe Comuzzi (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CBC News; The Chronicle-Journal
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Bloom6132 (talk) 23:39, 5 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Sam Jones (basketball, born 1933)

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Article: Sam Jones (basketball, born 1933) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NBA.com; The New York Times; Associated Press
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Bloom6132 (talk) 02:04, 2 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Marshall Fire

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No consensus to post. SpencerT•C 00:48, 5 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: 2021–2022 Boulder County fires (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A wildfire forces the evacuation of 40,000 people near Boulder, Colorado, United States. (Post)
News source(s): Independent,Observer, AP, BBC, Denver Post
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: Most destructive wildfire in Colorado history. A rare December wildfire fanned by 110 mph winds. Close to 40,000 people evacuated (counting the populations of Superior, Louisville, and a small portion of Broomfield). No deaths, but massive property damage. 64.231.158.212 (talk) 19:14, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Out of curiosity how do Australian wildfire deaths usually happen? Mostly sleepers or mostly climate change minimizers or mostly low-mobility humans in fast fires or what? Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 23:18, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
A combination of factors - the nature of the vegetation involved (mostly eucalypts, which are extremely flammable, almost explosive when it's very hot, because of their oil), rapid wind changes, poor roads, shortage of water to fight the fires.... If you have the time, have a read of Bushfires in Australia. HiLo48 (talk) 23:31, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
North America's needleleaf trees are gratuitously flammable and cause many Christmas tree fires but our grasses and broadleaf trees aren't. Similar to or less flammable than eucalyptus I don't know, I live in the broadleaf biome. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 03:05, 2 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support @HiLo48: As an Australian, I regard this as an important portent of things to come. A bushfire in mid-winter. Caused by high winds (which will be a feature of our weather down under from now on due to climate change) and high voltage power lines (which are still not buried despite everything). Writing this so I can point to I-told-you-so when it happens. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 06:56, 2 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Encyclopedic, unusual for time of year, article appears fully sourced. BBC is now stating 3 deaths. ETA As I type it is on the main index page of the Guardian & the BBC. Espresso Addict (talk) 02:27, 2 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The wind alone must be unusual for any time of year as gusts reached 115 miles an hour (5-10 mph short of "levitate skydivers in a chimney") and people probably wouldn't live there if that happened often. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 03:05, 2 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
snowlightningstorm snowuricane snowfirestorm tornado hits a volcano hurricane hits a wildfire Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 17:32, 2 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I got a thunderstorm a couple of weeks ago. Absurd! And today I read Ontario beat Oklahoma for twisters. InedibleHulk (talk) 18:21, 2 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Ivan Mozgovenko

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Article: Ivan Mozgovenko (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): classicalmusicnews.ru (in Russian)
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Influential Soviet and Russian clarinetist and music teacher. Grimes2 (talk) 15:20, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Hteik Su Phaya Gyi

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Article: Hteik Su Phaya Gyi (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [1], [2], The Star
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: The last (surviving) grandchild of the last king of Burma. Htanaungg (talk) 05:32, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Thryduulf: it was described in the "List of People" section of The King in Exile: The Fall of the Royal Family of Burma. I've added that. Htanaungg (talk)

(Closed) Blair becomes a Knight Companion of the Order of the Garter

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Consensus will not develop to post. Stephen 00:48, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Tony Blair (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Tony Blair joins the Order of the Garter as a Knight Companion (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated
 Count Iblis (talk) 00:07, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) Betty White

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Even if posting was not the very close consensus, the discussion is getting unproductive to the level that it is better to leave it as it is and close this discussion. --Tone 15:46, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

 
Article: Betty White (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ American actress and comedian Betty White (pictured) dies at the age of 99. (Post)
News source(s): TMZ Deadline Hollywood (confirmation from her agent) WaPo obit CNN
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Only source is TMZ - while they are reliable enough I'm nominating this, we should wait for at least one other source (that isn't just "according to TMZ") before posting. Article looks pretty good and can expect a flood of traffic. User:力 (powera, π, ν) 19:17, 31 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Sheila1988 If you would like to see more non-American stories posted, you need to nomimate them and work to bring the articles up to proper quality. We can only consider what is nominated, and I invite you to do so. 331dot (talk) 21:16, 31 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
That we didn't do X so we shouldn't do Y is a poor argument, as it means no change would be possible. 331dot (talk) 21:18, 31 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Historically, the trend of change has been fewer blurbs and not more. If Little Richard and Chuck Yeager didn't get blurbs in 2020 after Carrie Fisher had gotten one in 2016(?), we shouldn't reverse course in 2021/2022. – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 22:07, 31 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
More importantly, post the Carrie Fisher blurb, we've been more careful to post blurbs on deaths simply because the person was popular, a household name, or similar metric that wasn't a direct indicator of importance. --Masem (t) 22:10, 31 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Or reverse argument - Dilip Kumar was blurbed, so Betty White should be. And she has almost as many Wikipedia articles as Little Richard, so it is difficult to argue that she is below his level of popularity or that she is less famous worldwide. Kirill C1 (talk) 23:23, 31 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
This is false, they only made RD Bumbubookworm (talk) 20:45, 31 December 2021 (UTC) Also a SPA with 16 edits Bumbubookworm (talk) 20:45, 31 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb/RD Guinness World Record holder of 9 decades in entertainment, has spanned a lengthy career with many notable achievements, even served in Women's Voluntary Services in World War II. Understand the article may have some issues, but it is a holiday, and this is definitely significant news and is being at least mentioned almost everywhere you look right now. LTC b2412 Troops Talk RFC Inbox 20:40, 31 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Speedy support RD, neutral on blurb, per Kingsif and LTC b2412. This is all over the mainstream news and the article isn't in such an awful state that it must be kept off the front page. -BRAINULATOR9 (TALK) 20:49, 31 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Slight, coin-flip oppose blurb Neutral Honestly have warmed to the pro-blurb arguments, but my initial instinct was to oppose the blurb, just because I think White belongs in the category of very old and very famous performers whose deaths, on a fundamental sense, aren't the news stories themselves as opposed to their life and career. Using that approach, having her name on the RD ticker just about says it all.--Sunshineisles2 (talk) 20:52, 31 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb. White was certainly beloved but as a television actor whose most successful roles were classed as "supporting" or "guest" I think we're stretching the idea of "top of one's field". I know OTHERTHINGS is a flimsy argument but it would be a clear indicator of bias if we posted this blurb and not Bébel earlier this same year. ᵹʀᴀᴘᴘʟᴇ ꭗ 21:01, 31 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb -- she is notable and blurbworthy because of her trailblazing for woman actors everywhere. -- RockstoneSend me a message! 21:10, 31 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb. If a 90 year influential career (how many people have that?) with numerous accolades doesn't merit someone a blurb, we might as well just pack it up and stop doing death blurbs, period. Very frustrating. 331dot (talk) 21:12, 31 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    This pretty much sums up the argument for posting as a blurb. 90 years of experience in acting is incomprehensible in its size. She was acting through the end of World War 2, the Korean War, the Vietnam War, the Iran-Contra scandal, the fall of the Berlin Wall, and 9/11. Whatever you might think of her notability outside the U.S., very few entertainers - possibly none - can lay similar claims to the breadth of her career. WaltCip-(talk) 21:36, 31 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Sadly, it looks like "it's America-centric" will prevent anything American from being blurbed. I get it, America produces a lot of culture and news and it can be annoying. ITN is not supposed to be an American news-ticker, which is fair... But America is the third most populous country in the world, and the world's sole superpower, it has a lot of influence and we can't just refuse to post things because it came from the US. -- RockstoneSend me a message! 22:12, 31 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Why mention the superpower thing? Are you going to invade us if we disagree? Many American stars would deserve a blurb, but this lady was NOT one of them. HiLo48 (talk) 23:01, 31 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • (edit conflict) This isn't necessarily how to read a lot of the opposition and it would be a good idea to not treat it as something competitive or combative. The truth is a lot of names of similar standing have been summarily ignored for ITN blurbs because their names weren't known to the US, or they were rightly seen as not being at the top of their field. American and British media are very widely seen in the anglophone world and can create the impression that because you or I are familiar with someone, that they must be a significant figure, which isn't the case. Here we are discussing someone whose entire career was spent in supporting roles--by definition not the top of their field--and the question is less a matter of "we shouldn't post it because it's an American story" and more of "are we only even considering posting it at all because it's an American story". If a non-anglophone supporting player were brought here it would not even be considered for a blurb for one second, and that is where the mention of America-centric bias comes from. ᵹʀᴀᴘᴘʟᴇ ꭗ 23:04, 31 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • So someone can be very important but because they aren't known to everyone (I would venture that Anglophone world and Europe is a significant amount of the world anyway) they are disqualified? That's impressively the opposite of other arguments above; that she was well-known but no more important than Kirk Douglas (specifically because he wasn't posted). I'll just be clear and think that neither are very useful !vote reasons. On the subjective side, comparing importance to similar people can be useful. Douglas and White aren't very comparable, and he is only being mentioned because he wasn't posted. Debating how known someone is, is particularly pointless because of the ITN/R things (global elections, Nobel and other awards) that annually give blurbs to lots of people of various industries and nations who are transformative but unknown. Kingsif (talk) 02:18, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb or RD High-profile person. wizzito | say hello! 02:09, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thread re-opened following resolution of the citation needed tags. --TheSandDoctor Talk 02:32, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Suggestion: Post RD now let blurb discussion continue. Kingsif (talk) 02:39, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support RD now that the CN tags have been taken care of. Neutral on blurb, but leaning towards support. Doc StrangeMailboxLogbook 02:41, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted as RD but whether a blurb or not can continue --Masem (t) 02:48, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Can we post the blurb now? Seems consensus is leaning that way. -- RockstoneSend me a message! 02:50, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment There is the tiniest discussion of infobox image on the talkpage. As this would impact the image posted in the box for a blurb, everyone here is welcome to join. Kingsif (talk) 03:02, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb Name recognition and/or familiarity does not equate to being 'top of field'. Likewise, we don't post blurbs just because someone lives to the age of 99. As mentioned by another poster, Betty White spent the majority of her career in supporting roles. It is inconceivable that a blurb for similar person outside the US would be given the slightest of consideration. Chrisclear (talk) 03:09, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb. Fwiw, utterly unknown in this neck of the woods. Espresso Addict (talk) 03:25, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blerb It is not often that someone in the entertainment industry has a long career like Betty White, spanning most of her life. Urbanracer34 (talk) 03:29, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb Whether people in ...Egypt, as a random country... have heard of her or not, White's position in the field of television cannot be denied. She places more among transformative pioneers than entertainers: she was on television before television existed, when there were experiments to invent it in the 30s, and after it "died" come 2016 and the dominance of streaming (and then she did streaming too). During that time, she was regular in at least sitcoms and game shows for all eight decades. She was a constant of the medium. Who else, in any field, ever, has been a solid figure at its inception and through its (and their) entire lifespan? And I do hope if there was an actor from, say, Egypt, who was such a perennial figure in television, the achievement would also be considered important enough. Didn't we recently blurb the death of a Bollywood actor at the top of that industry? I know there's a sizable cohort of Indian editors, but ITN-contributors-at-large listen when the impact of something they don't know is explained. It's not American bias to give White a blurb when she has an achievement to warrant it. The hidden bias is that with more American editors, it is less likely any non-American comparable figure would have an article/ITN nom/discussion if nommed at ITN to get posted, but that isn't for us to solve in this discussion. Kingsif (talk) 03:44, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    • None of the claims of greatness are supported by the article - factually true she had a long career, but that doesn't equate to having a transformative role in television which needs strong sourcing to back it up. The problem is the same we had with Carrie Fisher - an extremely popular actress and the death shocked the entertainment world, but really not as transformative or top of the field as has been given. Thre's no section that goes into detail about how her role has impacted the industry, which would be a minimum requirement to even suggest that she was that transformative. --Masem (t) 07:16, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb. Reading her article, it's clear that her body of work make her blurb-worthy. The fact that many of her achievements were breakthroughs for women that we now mostly consider mundane but were absolutely groundbreaking decades ago shouldn't be a barrier to posting. ---- Patar knight - chat/contributions 03:47, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb Article is in good shape, she was a TV icon, groundbreaking actress and her death is being reported globally (if she wasn’t notable outside the US, those obits wouldn’t exist). TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 05:17, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb – "If I had a dick, this is where I'd tell you to suck it!". --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 05:20, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb Notable, no doubt, but not a world-changing scientist or politician, which is typically the bar for death blurb This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 05:40, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support speedy blurb Television pioneer with a career of nine decades. In nearly major news source, her death has been the most viewed and most shared story. I cannot recall any death where so many of the obituaries and tributes describe the deceased as a national treasure. A serious newsroom would understand the prominence of this story and its import to the public. That over 12 hours have passed without the blurb being added suggests this process is at best dysfunctional and more likely broken. Dr Fell (talk) 06:22, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Not transformative either. No Academy Awards or Golden Globes. An equivalent entertainer with a long career in any other country would be unlikely to be given a blurb. She had a very long career, but was nowhere near the level of Katharine Hepburn or Meryl Streep. Jim Michael (talk) 09:32, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Jim Michael Academy Awards and Golden Globes are for work in film, White was primarily known for television, for which she got several Emmys and a lifetime achievement award. 331dot (talk) 09:55, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
But she's best-known for the guilty-pleasure sitcoms The Golden Girls & Hot in Cleveland. How can that put her in the same class as Streep? Jim Michael (talk) 10:11, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Has Streep worked in film for 90 years? 331dot (talk) 10:30, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
As you know, Streep - like the vast majority of people - hasn't hasn't been able to have a career that long due to not having lived that long. However, Streep's career & achievements greatly outweigh White's. Streep should be blurbed less than an hour after being nominated, but this nom should have been up for discussion for 24h before a decision about posting were made. Jim Michael (talk) 12:09, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
She was nominated for four Golden Globes, though. She also won several Emmys, both Primetime and Daytime, SAGs(Screen Actors Guild Awards), Grammys, BAFTA/LA Britannia Awards, and was nominated for numerous Emmys. Kirill C1 (talk) 10:20, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb Non-transformative actor, no impact on acting, acting or theatre history, no appearance in any transformative work. Utterly unconvincing supports above include coffee and crumbs’s vote without rationale and the ridiculous claim that “she was on television before television existed”, which is just completely incorrect. Old woman dies is a bit harsh, but true. We’ve ignored many, many others in the entertainment field who have a better claim of inclusion, and this is just fan-voting and nothing else. 213.205.197.251 (talk) 10:25, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not convinced you even glanced at the article. And yes, she was on television before it existed as an industry. 331dot (talk) 10:29, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
You don’t know what you’re talking about on either point. Yes, of course I read the article. The television industry began in 1936 in the UK (although we began broadcasting in 1932) and white appeared in a very minor piece in 1939, then not appearing in the medium for another decade. So no, she didn’t appear on television, or even in the television industry, “before television existed”. These arguments are all a very, very long stretch to try and get someone up as a blurb. 213.205.194.165 (talk) 10:40, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't say "before it existed", I said "before it existed as an industry". It was not widespread in the 1930s. 331dot (talk) 10:50, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
My original comment quoted Kingsif: s/he was wrong in making the claim “she was on television before television existed” whether you take it as television or the television industry. You have tried to move the goalposts to claim “she was on television before it existed as an industry”: that is also incorrect. There was a television industry in the UK in the mid to late 1930s. Making up unverified claims to try and get someone on the front page seems a bit desperate. 213.205.194.165 (talk) 10:59, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Since you know all about it I suggest that you review the article for possible corrections that need to be made. I have nothing else to add. 331dot (talk) 11:04, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I have not said I know all about it. I have simply refuted one of the more misleading claims that have been made to attempt to justify the posting. There is no justification for the fan posting here, and the sooner it is taken down, the better. 213.205.194.165 (talk) 11:08, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
If being responsive to current events and what readers might be looking for is a "fan posting", so be it. The JWST must have fans to, as did Desmond Tutu and those interested in cricket. 331dot (talk) 11:13, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Straw men arguments. 213.205.194.165 (talk) 11:15, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Please tell me you didn't just equate Desmond Tutu with an actor. (The cricket story is ITN/R). Black Kite (talk) 11:35, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It's OK, they're both Christians, Christians dig unity in the hereafter. InedibleHulk (talk) 11:49, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Tutu was blurbed less than an hour after being nominated because he was at the top of his field. Is anyone honestly claiming that White is on a par with Streep, or even anywhere near her level? Jim Michael (talk) 12:17, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Tutu technically worked under two Archbishops of Canterbury, one of whom might die soon. Show some respect. What made Tutu bigger than White (in this life) was helping end apartheid. InedibleHulk (talk) 12:41, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
We'll certainly blurb Carey, but Tutu was more well-known & influential overall (including his activism). No-one's claiming White was at Streep's notability level. The main arguments for including White are her popularity, domestic awards & career length, which aren't enough to justify a blurb. Jim Michael (talk) 12:55, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Don't forget her recent online association with "national treasure", AKA "the phrase that pays", eh? InedibleHulk (talk) 13:16, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, it merely indicates popularity & interest by readers - not level of notability. ITN doesn't post most things that are among the most-read on WP that day/week/month/year. If we did, we'd post a lot of stories about domestic sports, politics & entertainment. Jim Michael (talk) 13:47, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Isn't ITN intended for popular topics that are of interest to our readers? - Floydian τ ¢ 13:57, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Absolutely not. Otherwise we would just be celebrity and entertainment and sports stories. Popularity should not at all enter the picture. --Masem (t) 13:59, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Crime, sex, disaster...animals. InedibleHulk (talk) 14:26, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Showbiz American white women. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:33, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I'm late in getting to this, but "readers coming here to catch up on news are in the absolutely wrong place" is a bonkers and outdated statement. (I appreciate Floydian pushing back on it.) The fact is that a lot of people come here to read up on recent news and the context underlying it, and Wikipedia's model of bringing a variety of sources together is excellent at providing these. Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 18:45, 3 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting comment – I would have opposed a blurb, but it was evident the subject's faithful fans, venting their views in a cyclone of 5,000 words, would prevail. Incertum quo fata ferunt. – Sca (talk) 14:09, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Rem acu tetigisti. -Ad Orientem (talk) 14:24, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Or, Quo tendimus? – Sca (talk) 15:30, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Like White, David Jason is an elderly actor who has a very long career, is a national treasure, is best-known for sitcoms, has domestic but not international awards & has millions of fans abroad as well as at home. However, he won't be blurbed even if his career continues well into his 90s. Jim Michael (talk) 14:31, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps ironically, gender may possibly make a difference here. It is fairly effortless to name multiple major male actors whose careers started young and who were still acting into their 90s. It is quite a bit more difficult to identify other female actors fitting the same parameters. In a comment on a different part of this thread, I must admit that I find the use of Latin, in a thread discussing prominent actors using modern technology mediums, to be rather ... odd. As a consequence, the nail hit on the head may not actually have been the nail aimed at. - Tenebris 66.11.165.101 (talk) 15:51, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Gosh, ITN has become so terribly vulgar recently. Plene confirmo notionem wikipediae Latinae, in qua callidissimi esse possumus. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:59, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Did Pogo the Possum say that? – Sca (talk) 15:35, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

December 30

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December 30, 2021 (2021-12-30) (Thursday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

Law and crime

  • Crime in London
    • A 16-year-old boy is stabbed to death in Hillingdon, west London, making him the 30th teenage homicide in the British capital in 2021. It is now the deadliest year on record for killings of teenagers, surpassing a previous peak of 29 homicides in 2008. (BBC News)

December 29

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December 29, 2021 (2021-12-29) (Wednesday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Science and technology

(Posted) RD: Pupetta Maresca

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Article: Pupetta Maresca (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian, AP, Il Mattino
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Beauty queen turned Lady Camorra. Joofjoof (talk) 01:00, 4 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: William Moncrief

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Article: William Moncrief (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Fort Worth Star-Telegram
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Article updated and well sourced --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 08:30, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) 2022 World Junior Ice Hockey Championships

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There will be no consensus to post this. Probably the only event postponement that we posted were the Tokyo Olympics. --Tone 08:54, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: 2022 World Junior Ice Hockey Championships (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The 2022 World Junior Ice Hockey Championships are cancelled due to the COVID-19 pandemic. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The 2022 World Junior Ice Hockey Championships were cancelled several games into the tournament due to players from multiple teams contracting COVID-19.
News source(s): Globe and Mail, Associated Press
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Event was just cancelled today part way through play due to Omicron. TheSandDoctor Talk 06:17, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

RD: Nancy Worley

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Article: Nancy Worley (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Independent
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Former Secretary of State of Alabama. Kafoxe (talk) 04:49, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Ghislaine Maxwell

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No consensus to post. --Tone 15:50, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Ghislaine Maxwell (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Jeffrey Epstein's former associate, Ghislaine Maxwell, is found guilty in a U.S. federal sex trafficking trial on 5 of 6 charges. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Jury reaches guilty verdict in sex trafficking trial of former Jeffrey Epstein associate Ghislaine Maxwell.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Jeffrey Epstein's former associate Ghislaine Maxwell is found guilty in sex trafficking trial.
News source(s): Reuters, The Guardian, ABC7 Chicago, The Hill, The Independent, Le Monde, El Pais
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Highly publicized case involving a number of high profile American politicians and international individuals. Mooonswimmer 22:27, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Are you in the US? If you aren't, I suggest running a random check on people you meet to see if they know who Jeffrey Epstein is (I'd suggest not bothering with Ghislaine_Maxwell). Also, when you look at some headlines like the "Ghislaine Maxwell found guilty in Jeffrey Epstein sex trafficking case" headline from The Globe and Mail, it's obvious that most people don't know Ghislaine Maxwell, because Ghislaine Maxwell needs to be anchored to Jeffrey Epstein before people can place the context. Banedon (talk) 04:40, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Neither of the British outlets I mentioned (Telegraph: "Ghislaine Maxwell facing 70 years in prison for sex trafficking" / Guardian: "Ghislaine Maxwell found guilty in sex-trafficking trial") feel the need to mention Epstein alongside Maxwell in their banner headlines (and neither does the Sydney Morning Herald headline!) Using your metric, that means they assume their readership is more likely to know who she is than two of three American news headlines right now. (Though regardless, rule 2 makes this a counterproductive argument anyway.)--Sunshineisles2 (talk) 04:47, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • I read this comment this morning and took Banedon up on the suggestion. The first person (an elderly neighbour) I asked "do you know who Jeffrey Epstein was" responded with a confused look. "Of course," - confused I thought she might not! Then her face changed. Oh, did I not know and needed explanation? - "his ex girlfriend was just found guilty of sex trafficking, terrible business. Killed himself in prison because of it."
    I politely went on my way before she got gossiping, but asked another three people in town and got similar responses. It was the headline on the evening news yesterday... I followed up with two of my unwitting survey respondees by asking who Kamala Harris was and they didn't know. So, it is American ignorance to assume only Americans have heard global news about a British woman. Kingsif (talk) 19:27, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. per above I got multiple push notifications about this from BBC News, where the website features live coverage as the main news and two other related stories are in the top 6, so it's clear this is internationally significant (but also "Please do not... oppose an item because the event is only relating to a single country, or failing to relate to one."). Thryduulf (talk) 00:33, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment If and when this gets posted, could the posting administrator please also post the Ashes Series ITN item as well? Chrisclear (talk) 00:57, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The connection to Epstein is really the only part that elevates this story. If there was no conection to Epstein - but still resulted in arrest and this conviction - it likely would not be anywhere close to groundbreaking. This is the media's bias on bad actors showing here and not the type of story we should give front page coverage of. --Masem (t) 01:26, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support front page around the world, decent article, not a DISASTERSTUB for a change. --LaserLegs (talk) 03:49, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support US news should not dominate ITN, I think we can all agree on that. But the reasoning presented thus far by oppose votes, isn't convincing to me. Yes, of course her relationship to Epstein is a boost of relevance to this story - the alleged crimes occurred in partnership with him! "x news is only famous/significant because of y" is too broad a standard to apply, and would disqualify just about everything, because things do not just occur in isolation. As for media's bias, we don't lead, we follow - WP:RGW. Arguing that this is getting attention because of bias and that we should correct for it, isn't neutral. Lastly, if there's genuine concern about people not knowing who Jeffrey Epstein is, then we can simply tag the appropriate article. Canadianerk (talk) 04:21, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • Particularly for ITN, we don't follow blindly (we are not a news ticker), and need to be aware of systematic bias that does exist. This isn't a case of RGW, nor a case of "opposing due to one country", but simply that this is media jumping on a figure who has been convicted, and who was connected to a figure that was already under the press's microscope. Take away the Epstein connection, and this really isn't a major story. --Masem (t) 05:56, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      • You are right, if any ordinary person did equivalent crimes for their boyfriend, it would probably reach regional/national news at best. But Ghislaine Maxwell is not an ordinary person, nor is her then-boyfriend, Epstein. Take any major story involving a celebrity and take away the celebrity - and unsurprisingly - it won't get as much coverage. There is bias influencing that outcome for a variety of reasons, but the celebrity of a person contributes to the newsworthiness of a story for the press. Hence, I find it hard to understand why pointing this out accomplishes anything, nor why it means the story is not ITN worthy. Epstein is in this story, and this woman has been convicted of crimes she committed in collaboration with him. Because of that, the allegation that systemic bias is too widespread in this story, means that it shouldn't run? Canadianerk (talk) 07:03, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
        • You've basically proved the point that news jumps on "celebrity" coverage and elevates certain stories to importance levels that for an encyclopedia, where we are more interested in endurance of topics rather than news bursts, doesn't make it a good fit. --Masem (t) 14:28, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
          And the press does the same thing for politics, sports and just about every story they cover, wildly adjusting importance levels. Does that mean we should stop covering things that the news covers, thereby completely defeating the point of ITN? Overcorrecting for perceived bias by choosing not to cover something at all is an extreme reaction I'm struggling to understand. One that at this point, for this piece of news, does not read as justified with simply "not groundbreaking", nor the bias you're citing, or most of the arguments I've seen presented thus far. The vast majority of news we cover is covered in news bursts... It's how the news cycle works? If it's the standard to correct to this extreme for both celebrity and news cycle, we've got a lot of changes to implement - including ditching most of ITN/R - because applying this standard unequally is arguably worse than just killing well-covered stories for this reasoning, and letting through random sports tournament #43. Tl;dr - this nomination appears to already have been killed, so there's not much point in continuing this. Thanks for trying to explain your perspective politely, I appreciate it. Canadianerk (talk) 00:26, 31 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Article in good shape. Reading the comments above, I would say this is an Anglo-American story. It's there on the home page of France24 in English and De Telegraaf, to further add to international coverage. Mjroots (talk) 05:09, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Article is okay. For our purposes it suffices that the subject is in the news worldwide. Would have more difficulty if I had to explain why. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 05:50, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support definitely ITN and article is decent. ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 06:10, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. I would actually suggest splitting out a separate Trial of Ghislaine Maxwell article, as there is substantially more coverage than is currently reflected in the article. I disagree that the connection with Epstein is the only thing that makes this international news. This is, as one source put it, "the woman who ties Jeffrey Epstein to Trump and the Clintons"; in other words, a major figure in her own right. Those famous names came up during the trial itself, so even if "Epstein" was removed from the equation, we would still be discussing a woman with ties to top-tier international figures being convicted of sex trafficking minors. BD2412 T 06:18, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. As U.S. based court trial stories go, this one is not particularly important. This trial is mostly celebrity tabloid fodder. The Kyle Rittenhouse and Ahmaud Arbery verdicts were much more consequential (both in November 2021) and both of those were declined at ITN. Nsk92 (talk) 06:32, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
How were the Rittenhouse & Arbery verdicts more consequential? Rittenhouse was acquitted & there were no consequences. Arbery's killers were convicted but it was a fairly standard trial which received excesssive media coverage because of its racial angle. Jim Michael (talk) 10:53, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Even with concerns over the impact of this specific trial, the magnitude of what these verdicts stand for and what they mean for the general Epstein situation are of significance. The idea that something like this is US-centric when supposedly so many countries were probably touched by this scandal is absurd. Not too big on any of the blurbs though. DarkSide830 (talk) 06:56, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Ghislaine Maxwell is not Jeffrey Epstein. She has not implicated any major figures during her trial and there is no indication that her conviction will have significant further consequences for anyone else other than Ghislaine Maxwell. By comparison the Kyle Rittenhouse and Ahmaud Arbery verdicts have had major impact on race relations and on gun related debates in the U.S. Nsk92 (talk) 07:21, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Respectfully disagree. Obviously nothing is proven as far as further charges and individuals being implicated, but the initial comment is somewhat misguided. Yes, Maxwell isn't Epstein, but the link between these two is undeniable and to act like the allegations against Maxwell are completely separate from him is silly. DarkSide830 (talk) 07:52, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I disagree. There may be consequences, if not direct, for Prince Andrew, Duke of York, who made it abundantly clear, in his 2019 interview with Emily Maitlis, that it was for Maxwell he had organised a special birthday party weekend pheasant shoot at Sandringham House. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:18, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Significant event and gaining global coverage. Article also looks good. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 08:32, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose This isn't a truly major verdict. Riots won't be happening in the streets, but many tabloid newspapers will be sold. If this were a certain member of the British royal family, then perhaps the story would make it to the front page. The recent Kyle Rittenhouse and Ahmaud Arbery verdicts did not make the cut, this should not either.Thriley (talk) 08:39, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per above and, especially, per Thriley. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 10:34, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Thriley. Where exactly is the world-historical importance here? ITN would become a pure tabloid if we posted individual criminal trials merely because they receive media attention - and this one, ironically, is particularly unworthy because it merely establishes the involvement of one not particularly famous "socialite" in abuse already proven to have taken place in another criminal trial. I do not doubt the significance for those involved but I am yet to see a convincing argument that its implications go any further. —Brigade Piron (talk) 11:12, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Thriley, not a ground breaking trial, not important enough for ITN. Joseph2302 (talk) 11:18, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Oppose – Leads many prime RS sites Thursday: AP, BBC, Guardian However, the verdict was a foregone conclusion given the highly publicized testimony in this sordid affair. Leaning toward oppose. – Sca (talk) 12:53, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Biggest news story in the English-speaking world right now, and I suspect it will remain at the top of the headlines for at least another week. It seems strange for us to be imposing our own standards of importance over the media's when Wikipedia is intended to follow, not to lead. Mlb96 (talk) 14:53, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The biggest news story in the world right now, both in the English speaking world and non English speaking world, is the Omicron variant. It's also by far more important than the Ghislaine Maxwell trial. Nsk92 (talk) 15:21, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Not if you watch or listen to the BBC. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:23, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • That is one of my measures to alleviate "systemic bias". It is a top story inside a subset of English-language media, outside that, nobody really cares. Just compare this verdict to the Chauvin trial, which had universal media coverage across the globe. This one is a tabloid-like triviality in comparison. Pavlor (talk) 16:22, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yes, of course, the Chauvin trial was a bigger global news event. But are you suggesting all future nominations are compared against the top story in the Czech Republic? And I'm not sure the estimated "few dozen to over 100" victims of Epstein and Maxwell would consider it "tabloid-like triviality". Martinevans123 (talk) 16:28, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Why not consider what makes the news in the Czech Republic? English Wikipedia is "Wikipedia in the English language", not "Wikipedia for Anglo-Americans". For reference, it has barely made it onto the front page of Le Monde and is not even one of the top three American-related stories there (1) and ditto El Pais (2). This does not mean that we should not feature this story, but it does mean that the onus is on the supporters to find a better argument than "lots of press coverage". —Brigade Piron (talk) 16:38, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Nothing against Czech news. But yes, I am assuming en.wiki ITN is primarily about what's in English language news (and certainly not just "Anglo-American"). Do you think we should always check what's the top story in China before posting at ITN? Martinevans123 (talk) 16:45, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the U.S. media none of the news sites I looked at currently lead with the Ghislaine Maxwell story, with the exception of a couple of yellow rags like NY Post. Quite a few U.S. newspapers with national circulation currently don't have the Ghislaine Maxwell story on their front pages at all, including Chicago Tribune[3], Boston Globe[4] and Atlanta Journal-Constitution[5]. WaPo does have the story on its front page right now[6] (not as the lead, the lead story is Omicron, of course), ironically with the headline critical of BBC's coverage: "BBC criticized for having Dershowitz analyze Maxwell case despite allegations against him." That shows where the story ranks in the U.S. right now in the order of importance. Nsk92 (talk) 17:26, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Fair enough. The verdict was delivered about 5pm EST yesterday? Unlike ITN, most news outlets move on as fast as they can to the next breaking story? But yes, I guess less significant stories will tail off more quickly. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:37, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • For what it's worth, seven of the ten most popular stories on the Guardian's US site right now are about the Maxwell trial. The others: Tiger fatally shot at Florida zoo after biting man's arm, Record snowfall in California, Denver shooting suspect wrote books describing similar attacks..-- Pawnkingthree (talk) 19:41, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Story in the public's interest which has lasted many months. 2600:1700:FC10:48C0:4858:9F69:7869:1B3 (talk) 20:16, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Story is not in the international public interest. Story is not notable outside of the United States. Story is not important. Wikipedia is not a celebrity gossip magazine. Personally, I would have to look up who Mr. Epstein is or was, and his associate is even less important. For a US site, maybe. For an international site, no, certainly not front page news. The English language Wikipedia is in English, but its coverage should be worldwide like its audience is — it should not be specific to English speaking countries. --Gerrit CUTEDH 21:04, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "not notable outside of the United States"?? I think the BBC and ITV would beg to differ, as it's been wall-to-wall since abut 10pm last night.... Or is your comment intended as a public service instruction? Martinevans123 (talk) 21:35, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • To consider that an event occurring in the U.S. is internationally notable because the BBC talks about it a lot seems foolhardy to me. They are still "brother" countries and it's not at all unusual for something important in the US to be picked up in the UK with the same or similar impact. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 22:15, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Tabloid stuff. No global significance. This case should have 2 ITN only: him going to jail and him dead. Tradediatalk 21:23, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support I don't know where all the "gossip" and "tabloid" arguments are coming from. Is this covered in broadsheet, TV, major news outlets? Yes. Is it a high-profile criminal conviction, something that we get enough of we have actually brought in guidelines on when to post them? Yes. I can see oppose reasons like "wait for her to be sentenced" being made seriously, but not "unimportant celebrity gossip". Damn. Also, anyone saying it's only in America don't seem to notice that she is British and not exactly unknown in the country - arguably, more infamous in the UK than the US - and that this side of it (i.e. the not-Epstein notoriety) has spilled into France/Aus/NZ news at least. If you actually look at the global news. Of course, something doesn't have to be reported internationally (as long as it's ITN somewhere) for international interest, not something I think I've argued before but have conceded when other have - fascination with criminals is universal. Kingsif (talk) 00:32, 31 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • This type of news is where even quality sources like NYTimes and BBC enter a "tabloid" mode. I have no feelings about Maxwell here, but this is clearly a person that, like Epstein, the media show no issue with portraying in a negative light. It is a similar problem to missing white woman syndrome, that these are people they love to hate and thus a ruling like this is one they love to harp on. If there were no ties to Epstein, the trial would still have been covered, but with far less importance or coverage. That's the basic problem here is the artificial inflation of this story due to the celebrity nature of it - basically acting like tabloids. --Masem (t) 02:27, 31 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support I cannot remember a more obvious candidate that encountered more than trivial resistance. I encourage anyone considering opposition to go re-read the ITN criteria. It sounds like it was written with this nomination in mind. Then read the opposition !votes here; you will find none are applicable to the standards. That is quite telling. GreatCaesarsGhost 01:07, 31 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Known in Canada. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:52, 31 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment is there a procedure to define "consensus" when the vast majority of oppose votes are coming from people who apparently haven't read the actual rules of ITN? I'm not even certain if I'm supportive or opposed (I think there is a good argument against posting this specific development in the whole saga of this case to this point) but nearly all of the opposed !votes here have been completely unconvincing to anyone who's read Rule 2—and regardless, I think the claim that this is news in only one country has been materially disproven. (And, if I may be so presumptuous, if there is one country where this has received more encompassing news coverage than anywhere else, I really don't think it's the one people here think it is...) --Sunshineisles2 (talk) 02:11, 31 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Not sure, but probably more than we get for editing the online encyclopedia that is not a news ticker. – Sca (talk) 14:24, 31 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Oooh, is that sour grapes, or just hard cheese? Martinevans123 (talk) 16:02, 31 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Please! Civis orbis sum. – Sca (talk) 18:28, 31 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) Stand News

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Articles: Stand News (talk · history · tag) and Stand News raids and arrests (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Stand News closes down after its staff are arrested by the HK Police for sedition. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Stand News closes down after its staff are arrested by the HK Police for sedition.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Stand News closes down after its staff are arrested by Hong Kong Police for sedition.
Alternative blurb III: ​ In Hong Kong, Stand News closes down after its staff are arrested for sedition.
News source(s): BBC; NYT
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: This is rather like the Memorial item below; yet more authoritarian suppression... Andrew🐉(talk) 20:31, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the suggestion. I have shown this as an alt blurb for clarity and choice. Andrew🐉(talk) 21:40, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
As a Brit, I think it would be wrong in the singular; "staff" as a collective can't be arrested, only the individual staff members. Espresso Addict (talk) 03:36, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, it would be "is" in American English, but HK English is presumably closer to BrE and also colonial MOS:TIES.—Bagumba (talk) 07:55, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
With regards to spelling, HK English is British English, especially in official and/or professional settings. feminist (talk) 11:05, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

December 28

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December 28, 2021 (2021-12-28) (Tuesday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

Law and crime

Politics and elections

(Posted) RD: Michael R. Clifford

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Article: Michael R. Clifford (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.space.com/nasa-astronaut-rich-clifford-obituary
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: NASA Astronaut in 3 Shuttle missions. --PFHLai (talk) 23:28, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Memorial (society)

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Article: Memorial (society) (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Supreme Court of Russia orders the closure of Memorial, Russia's oldest and most influential human rights group, for alleged violations of the country's foreign agent law. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The Supreme Court of Russia orders the closure of Memorial, Russia's oldest human rights group, for failing to mark social media posts with its official status as a "foreign agent".
Alternative blurb II: ​ The Supreme Court of Russia orders the closure of Memorial, Russia's oldest human rights group, for violations of the country's foreign agent law. Its sister organisation, the Memorial Human Rights Center, was ordered shut in a separate court case the following day.
News source(s): CNN, The Guardian, BBC, DW, FT, Reuters, Politico, France24 etc.
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Memorial was synonymous with Russian civil society. It was one of the earliest civil organisations to emerge during Perestroika in the 1980s Soviet Union, and was undoubtedly the most influential. It educated Russians about Soviet-era gulag, but just as importantly documented modern rights abuses, such as violence in Chechnya against journalists covering the repression of gay people. Its closure marks a significant moment in Russia's descent to authoritarianism. This is reflected in the tone of coverage in RS news media, which use language such as "watershed moment". The article is partially updated, but could do with additional details about the court case and the closure of the sister organisation in a separate court case today, per the CNN article. Jr8825 • Talk 11:55, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support - The blurb must be politically neutral, but nevertheless a pretty important moment. (PenangLion (talk) 12:01, 29 December 2021 (UTC))[reply]
    @PenangLion: I believe it currently is? The only subjective label is "most influential", which I don't think is particularly controversial (and is supported by the weight of sourcing). I don't object to removing "most influential", though; my rationale was that "oldest" doesn't convey how significant its role is within Russian civil society, but it's not essential. Do you have any particular suggestions for the wording? Cheers, Jr8825 • Talk 12:04, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
It's definitely one of the most influential, but the part needs to be sourced, that's all. The blurb is perfectly fine beyond that. Peace out. (PenangLion (talk) 12:51, 29 December 2021 (UTC))[reply]
  • Support. Significant for Russia and widely covered internationally. The alt blurbs are too wordy, but the original blurb is basically OK. Nsk92 (talk) 12:21, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Conditional support, has been operational for 32 years. Someone, however, has tagged the article for copyediting, full suport once the tag is resolved one way or the other. Brandmeistertalk 13:01, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    @Brandmeister: I'm not familiar with ITN processes, but is it always necessary to resolve all article cleanup tags? I added the copy edit tag as I listed it at the guild for a read over, and I think it's helpful for the tag to remain until that's done (which will likely take some time). I spent this afternoon whipping the article into better shape and copy editing egregious issues with grammar and content, but it could still do with a thorough review of the English as some sections look like they were translated from Russian. The article is still in much better shape than it was. Jr8825 • Talk 17:43, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Revisiting Wikipedia:In_the_news#Article_quality, it says: Articles should be well written with clear prose. But since some copyediting has been done, I will not nitpick, appearance on the main page will bring more (copy)editors. Brandmeistertalk 18:17, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support ... in principle, pending edit. Seven prime RS sites on Wed. list this ham-fisted blow for further govt. autocracy as their lead article. Once again, the Russian state owns history, too. Спасибо, товарищ! Favor succinct first blurb. Suggest use of "Мемориал" logo. – Sca (talk) 13:33, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Just another footnote in the story of Putin's Russian autocracy... Fakescientist8000 (talk) 14:27, 31 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Once the article is fixed up. This is gaining global coverage. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 13:37, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I agree that there's global coverage of the story and sharp criticism of the order, but it seems like the right time to post this was when the foreign agent law came into force in 2012. Russia-based NGOs are literally unable to receive funding from abroad as a result of the law and those with international connections have been under continuous supervision by the government, so the closure of a human rights organisation, even the oldest and most notable one, is a logical consequence of what has been happening in the recent years. This might have been a notable story had it happened in a country with liberal laws on the NGO sector, but that's clearly not the case here. However, we should pay attention to the development of the story because it may get important if it results in international sanctions against Russia.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 14:58, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • Oh, please. The story is about the ban of Memorial, which happened this week, not in 2012. Nsk92 (talk) 15:07, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • My view is that even if this move was expected, perhaps inevitable given Russia's trajectory, Memorial's status and influence makes it a historic (and grim) milestone anyway. Jr8825 • Talk 15:07, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      • Memorial had been an organization with considerable global stature and influence, and rather iconic and venerable stature in Russia itself, which is why this move was not inevitable and is somewhat unexpected even given Russia's continued slide into totalitarianism. Nsk92 (talk) 15:14, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
        • Memorial was established to herald the democratic transition from a repressive socialist society to a liberal democratic one. Given the historical developments in the country over the past three decades, the organisation clearly failed on its mission. That being said, its "iconic and venerable stature in Russia" probably applies to a very limited group of people with no impact in the Russian society. And this story is a big farce. However loud the international reactions are, there's unwillingness to take anything concrete in order to counter it. That's why this should be taken seriously only in case international sanctions are imposed against Russia as a result or, at least, if an international court rules against the order made by the Supreme Court of Russia.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 15:38, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
          • Memorial has been an organization with an iconic and venerable status in Russia, and it has had major impact on Russian society over decades. Requiring that there be international sanctions on Russia before we post a story of this importance to ITN is complete and utter arbitrary nonsense. Nsk92 (talk) 15:52, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
          • RS say Memorial is (in similar words) iconic and venerable; for example, look at the tone of the Financial Times' coverage. It's what the sources say which matters (not editors' personal views/cynicism on the matter). Jr8825 • Talk 16:38, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment – Copy-edited the first 1,000 words (down to 'Mission and activities'), rather extensively in places. Alas, that's less than a quarter of the rather bloated text. Any other volunteers? I'd very much like to see other eds take a crack at cleaning it up and boiling it down. – Sca (talk) 15:56, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
PS: Kiril Simeonovski, Nsk92: Please note that editing of this important article is in progress. – Sca (talk) 16:08, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Sca: I've done some heavy copy editing of the entire article, including the sections after "Mission and activities". I've also requested a guild copy edit to improve the standard of English, although this will likely happen after any potential ITN listing. Overall though, I think the article's now in a reasonably presentable state. Jr8825 • Talk 17:34, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
WP:NPA.
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
  • Comment – Perhaps an admin could convey semi-protected status to the article? – Sca (talk) 18:17, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Oppose Solely on article quality. There are a number of unsourced claims. Once corrected I favor blurb I. Keep it short and to the point. -Ad Orientem (talk) 18:24, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    The offending unsourced sentences have now been removed by another editor. Jr8825 • Talk 22:05, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment – Jr8825: Wow, a huge improvement. Thanks for your quick work. At 4,200 words, the article has been pared considerably, although arguably it's still a bit long – but acceptable for such a complex topic. Спасибо. – Sca (talk) 18:38, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    @Sca: I noticed you adjusted the blurb to "alleged violations of the country's foreign agent law". I'm not sure whether these violations should be described as "alleged" – it seems as though Memorial may well have failed to comply with the restrictions placed upon it, regardless of how unjust they are. Is it appropriate to act as though the Supreme Court's ruling isn't authoritative, even if it may have been politically influenced? Particularly as Memorial's defence appears to have been along the lines of "yes, we failed to do some administrative formalities correctly, but our group is a massive net positive for the nation". Jr8825 • Talk 21:58, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Jr8825, please see this topic at MP/E. – Sca (talk) 13:01, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Harry Reid

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Article: Harry Reid (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Politico, AP, Guardian
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 – Muboshgu (talk) 01:30, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(RD posted) RD/Blurb: John Madden

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RD posted, as the article has been improved. No consensus for a blurb and the discussion is going nowhere. Closing. --Tone 08:51, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: John Madden (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  Former American football coach and broadcaster John Madden dies at the age of 85. (Post)
News source(s): Yahoo Sports, NYT
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
 – Muboshgu (talk) 00:25, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"Obscure" is laughable. What you meant to say was "well, I never heard of him." --Bongwarrior (talk) 01:06, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
'Strong support' = support. – Sca (talk) 13:45, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
It was stated that his death was highly unexpected[2]. KingOfAllThings (thou shalt chatter!) 19:45, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"Please do not oppose an item because the event is only relating to a single country, or failing to relate to one. This applies to a high percentage of the content we post and is unproductive." It's also not true as the NFL now regularly plays a game in London and other international locations. The hundreds of millions of video games sold are also not just in the US. 331dot (talk) 10:23, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb A blurb for a sports coach and commentator? Just what exactly is the limit to the concept of someone being important in a particular field? If someone was transformative in the field of the study of birds with blue feathers, would they be blurb-worthy? Chrisclear (talk) 10:41, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb I sincerely hope the suggested blurb is a big joke. There's absolutely nothing which sets him apart from many other coaches in the sport, and he died more than 40 years after ending his coaching career. Merely a mediocre coach as per this list with no acclamation as one of the greatest by anyone. So far, the only living coach who deserves a blurb in this sport is Bill Belichick.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 10:42, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
As the writer, I can say it is not a joke. The NFL Commissioner said "he is football", and Madden did groundbreaking work in sportscasting. 331dot (talk) 10:47, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"He was football." Again, that's about it consuming him. We all know a guy who "eats, sleeps and breathes" his job. Anyway, thanks for taking responsibility. Looked like Muboshgu's doing to me! InedibleHulk (talk) 11:08, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
This guy won 1 title, 13 other coaches won at least 2 titles. If every coach who wins a single major club title/world/Olympic championship gets blurbed then we would probably have 50-100 coach blurbs a year. Nothing in the article indicates any tactical/strategic innovations that he made. Nowhere near the top of a niche sport. Nothing in his commentary career indicates critical acclaim or insight. Being paid a lot doesn't equate to impact or insight. List_of_best-selling_video_game_franchises shows that the videogame that he was the brand ambassador for is ranked #17 in total sales, and since when was being the mascot/front cover face a "field"/"endeavour" and is it possible to "transform" how to look pretty on the front cover. I know that Wikipedia is full of young white males, and I know that many WPians lie about their educational qualifications like Essjay and probably have trouble rearranging a linear equation, but are we going to blurb models/pornstars ranked #17 in front-cover appearances [chuckle, chuckle] ?? This empty rhetoric about "top of his field" is nothing more than fake news and alternative facts Bumbubookworm (talk) 11:25, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
This comment is ludicrous. There are thousands and thousands and thousands of video game franchises, and you're saying that #17 isn't the top of the field? Mlb96 (talk) 13:09, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Video/computer games have only been around for 40 years. The game is only ranked 17th and the top one has 6 times as many sales. Modern professional sport has been around for about 120 years. We would never blurb the 50th ranked player in terms of titles etc. Furthermore, he isn't the main component of the games, he's a supporting component. We would never blurb the marketing manager/agent/personal assistant/adviser of the 20th ranked musical band or the like. Wikipedia:In_the_news/Candidates/May_2019#(Posted_to_RD)_RD:_Murray_Gell-Mann invented a new field of physics (a larger field than an icon in a game) and people brushed it off incorrectly as an "old man dies" and here we have guy in a narrower field with no technical improvements disclosed and a bunch of fan supports. Bumbubookworm (talk) 17:02, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose on quality, and oppose blurb. Not transformative, as pointed out by multiple editors, and practically unknown outside the US except as a name on a video game. Black Kite (talk) 11:29, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support RD only If we were to get significant global reaction to his death, then a blurb could be warranted, but as it stands, it doesn't seems probable, even though his impact within NFL circles is incalculable. rawmustard (talk) 11:47, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support RD only No more, just support. Too much impact, too much to count. (PenangLion (talk) 11:56, 29 December 2021 (UTC))[reply]
  • More of a comment than a !vote (although I'm leaning towards an RD appearance only, mainly because Madden was probably only known outside of North America as the namesake of the game series rather than his American football career) but I was wondering if the supports here would support a blurb for a death of a famous and iconic association football manager, someone like Alex Ferguson or people of his stature, for similar reasons to their support for Madden getting a blurb. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 12:38, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • ITN is a Commonwealth news ticker, so any semi-famous Brit will get blurbed regardless of Americans' protestations. The people who accuse ITN of being US-centric are delusional; if anything, it's UK-centric. Mlb96 (talk) 13:03, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      • Indeed; Alex Ferguson will get blurbed, even if the Americans object (which they won't). Aside, while bias is real, life on Earth is very much impacted by America & English culture, so it's reasonable that they might show up more often than other countries. GreatCaesarsGhost 13:18, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • Yeah, that's a pretty terrible comparison though, because Ferguson is by far the most successful manager in the English game ever - he won 13 titles (the next highest is six). Apart from the video game thing, the equivalent here is someone like Howard Wilkinson or Howard Kendall. Yes, Ferguson would get a blurb, but I'm struggling to think of another one who would. Black Kite (talk) 13:30, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • RD only – A big sports name, but not generally significant beyond U.S. football. – Sca (talk) 13:41, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - Some of the opposition here seems based on a strawman argument. He wasn't the top coach in the NFL. But he was at the top of his field as a commentator for many years. And, while people outside the USA are commenting that football has less impact than other sports, it is important to point out that NFL games have higher TV ratings in the USA than any of the other major sports. He is also the face of one of the most successful video game franchises of all time, topping other major contenders like The Legend of Zelda. Those are the big arguments, not the coaching career, which is more like the icing on the cake. If anything, the fact that you could describe his career and then add "Oh yeah, and he also won the Super Bowl" is quite telling. I would support a blurb if it included the video game aspect. GaryColemanFan (talk) 13:52, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not so sure about this. I can imagine that someone who is synonymous with video games, someone like Shigeru Miyamoto, may get a blurb if they die, but others probably would only get an RD mention at most. Outside the US he was probably better known for being the namesake of the Madden series than his coaching career, and I imagine many people didn't even know he was a coach. Being a mascot by itself doesn't really seem worth giving a blurb in my opinion. I don't want to invoke WP:OSE here, but if some American personalities like Barbara Bush or Nancy Reagan only got RD mentions despite arguably being more well-known internationally, I find it hard to justify Madden getting a blurb. And yes, I know that being country-centric is by itself not supposed to be an argument here, but if as mentioned above, it would sound ridiculous if every major coach in every major sport in every country got a blurb when they died. Would people here support a blurb about a famous English football manager or Japanese baseball coach if they were iconic in their home countries? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 14:24, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
You're getting hung up on the coaching again. Nobody is arguing for a blurb based on his coaching career. That's the strawman argument I mentioned above. I said he was a commentator and face/voice/name of a video game franchise. GaryColemanFan (talk) 14:46, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
So in which case, would supporters here support a blurb for Marv Albert or Hideo Kojima if they died? In addition, "nobody is arguing for a blurb based on his coaching career" is inaccurate as some of the earlier supports indeed cited his American football career as the reason for their support, not simply because of Madden the game series. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 15:05, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Coaching in American football is perhaps the most promising field to justify his notability for a blurb but he clearly fails. If we put coaching aside, sports broadcasting and voice acting in video games are only secondary sub-fields of television and the video game industry in the same way as hairdressing is a secondary sub-field of fashion. We can define hundreds of similar sub-fields and easily identify thousands of people like him. That's not what we're supposed to do for a death blurb.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 15:17, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb A major figure in the NFL, yes. Possibly "top of his field" as a commentator. But to me is not one of the rare cases where we make an exception to putting the death of an 85-year-old man in the Recent Deaths section.-- Pawnkingthree (talk) 14:13, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support RD only Accomplished on many fronts across three generations (NFL/sports commentator/video game). CoatCheck (talk) 16:23, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - (Responding to the comparisons between John Madden and Alex Ferguson) Oh come on, comparing Alex Ferguson with John Madden by all aspects shouldn't even be a thing. John Madden is a good manager for his own field, but Alex Ferguson is one of the most coveted managers in, I don' know, 175 years of world football? He has more trophies than any other manager in history. Do I need to repeat the word? History. Adding an RD for one of the greatest of his field, a field that is popular and is followed among billions over the world, is definitely a necessity. John Madden is a great guy, but ask somebody outside the States, ask them who John Madden is, most of them won't even know who the hell that guy is. Maybe a few would point to that guy as the "guy who appeared in rugby games" (sorry). Ask who's Alex Ferguson on the other hand, you'll get a lot of responses, outside the States, in Australia, in Thailand, in Burkina Faso, or even in France. This is what will happen when you have one sport being popular in over 150-countries, and the other sport being popular in only 5 (or one perhaps). Trying to push a blurb for John Madden or even Alex Ferguson isn't going to help the Blurbs (Alex Ferguson might be a bare pass for the Blurb). If Madden is the bar set for the Blurb, for being a typical good manager, and a name that has resonated in video games, then I'll lose faith in it, because it is equivalent of making Charles Martinet's death into the Blurb because he voiced Mario, that famous guy. He's worth for RD, then RD-only it is. No more arbitrary arguments on statuses. It doesn't benefit anyone. (PenangLion (talk) 16:47, 29 December 2021 (UTC))[reply]
It's just a response to the comparison earlier. Again, he's worth for RD, but not enough for his own blurb. (PenangLion (talk) 16:58, 29 December 2021 (UTC))[reply]
Yes, but you are responding to a strawman nobody really argued for. I don't even think 90% of the people who played the game named after him knew that he won a Super Bowl. Howard the Duck (talk) 17:01, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment there is a consensus for RD, but there are still two CN tags. Please fix them so we can post. --Tone 17:47, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb - Good lord, we can't even get the bloody Ashes posted in a timely manner, and yet we're talking about how this American football coach deserves a blurb? I think the bar needs to be especially high for that field, and John Madden does not meet it. Bill Belichick is the only name I can think of who would.--WaltCip-(talk) 17:49, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb, Support RD Not at the same kind of Mandela level prominence one would expect for a blurb, but a perfectly fine RD. Hemiauchenia (talk) 19:19, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blub not really close to blurb level. Of course support RD if/when article is of sufficient quality. Rhino131 (talk) 19:24, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: clearly there is not consensus for a blurb (sadly). There is consensus for RD. Can someone add him there? As an aside, I do think that ITN is way too Commonwealth centric. Way too much stuff about soccer. --RockstoneSend me a message! 19:34, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Rockstone35: Many people apparently have the misconception that football is a Commonwealth-related sport in the same way as American football is US-related. In reality, football is all over the world and zillion times more popular than American football (sport news feeds in most languages are overflooded with football news). A much better comparison would perhaps be to compare American football to cricket or snooker but even these sports are more popular than American football if we consider that India have a strong cricket team and China field very good snooker players. Alternatively, this may be in order to deliberately downplay the other parts of the world (equating 330 million people in the US to 2.4 billion people in the Commonwealth).--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 08:44, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Some of y'all's arguments are ridiculous. First of all, I totally agree with Rockstone35, ITN is very much Commonwealth biased and centric. Top of his field = deserves a blurb. A legend to many people = deserves a blurb. This is big news, y'all. Even the NFL itself said that John Madden died unexpectedly and here we are saying it was. He deserves a blurb! KingOfAllThings (thou shalt chatter!) 19:49, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    "Top of his field" and "legend to many people" is not a valid reason to get a blurb, there are innumerable fields beyond counting in reality. We are not going to blurb the greatest teacher of basket weaving, the champion of brick making, etc. - Indefensible (talk) 19:56, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    "Top of their field" is a valid reason to blurb but we're talking the best of the best, and that should be readily demonstrated on the article page (which I do not really see for Madden here). However it is absolutely right that "legend to many people" is not reason to blurb, unless we're talking many many reliable sources over the year. Otherwise we're dealing with popularity and that led the problems that have persisted since Carrie Fisher was given a blurb. --Masem (t) 01:29, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    The problem with that is that he wasn't top of his field, he was a slightly better than average coach, an unremarkable broadcaster and an unremarkable video game voice actor (the game's success, and #17 is not top of the field, did not result in any awards or similar for his role). Being "a legend to many people" is not and should not be a relevant consideration for a blurb. Even if ITN posts too much soccer (which I see no actual evidence of) that doesn't mean we need to blurb a run-of-the-mill "old man dies of old age" story as some sort of false balance. Thryduulf (talk) 20:03, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    His role in video games is not that of "an unremarkable video game voice actor". It doesn't matter whether he won any awards - he was bigger than the entire video games awards system at the time. That is what makes him a transformational figure in "sports simulation video games". User:力 (powera, π, ν) 20:38, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    But how important are "sports simulation video games"? In a community like Wikipedia, that category is probably going to be favorably biased due to demographics. - Indefensible (talk) 20:45, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    I've already said I'm neutral on a blurb. User:力 (powera, π, ν) 20:51, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
To the comments above claiming ITNC has a Commonwealth bias or soccer bias, let's put it into context. I don't know if it really has a Commonwealth bias, but a soccer/association football "bias" is not really unsurprising when you consider it's by far the world's most popular sport. Even the Super Bowl, the cream of the crop of the American games, pales in comparison to stuff like the World Cup, the UEFA Champions League, or arguably even the Premier League internationally. To be fair, it's not as if ITNC is adverse to featuring blurbs about deceased North American sports personalities. Kobe Bryant and Hank Aaron were both blurbs, and I imagine Michael Jordan and Wayne Gretzky will be too once their time comes. It's just that it's really debatable if Madden deserves a blurb given that he's arguably more famous for his game than his sports career, although as far as I can tell almost no one is actually opposed to him being featured on Recent deaths (apart from those opposed on article quality grounds; even most of the blurb opposes support an RD mention), it's just that people are split on if he deserves a blurb. If we're talking about American football, I imagine the only currently-living ones who may get a blurb in the future are Peyton Manning or Tom Brady. Finally, I don't want to invoke WP:OSE, but it should be noted that John McCain, a far more influential and famous person (the latter at least internationally) only got an RD mention when he died, and so have many similar American personalities. Madden may have been a legend among many American football fans regardless of his coaching success, but the question of that's enough to deserve a blurb is another one entirely. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 22:05, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Blurb This really felt borderline here but I think Madden just falls short of notability. If this were US Wiki or Sports Wiki then I think he's an easy blurb candidate. I don't think his notability within the field can be questioned (the "he is football" comment I think holds), the issue simply is the impact of that field. I say it's close because of how impactful and big American Football is in spite of being a largely US sport, due to cultural relevance, economic impact, and impact on forms of media (see the Madden games in this case), but just a little short. DarkSide830 (talk) 22:42, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Blurb Regionally notable individual without high profile in the rest of the Anglophone world. Melmann 23:07, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb, strongly support RD I don't believe Madden was important enough of a figure - in any of the fields he was involved in - to warrant a blurb. Within American football, I can think of several other figures who are more important or successful, and I wouldn't even give them a blurb. However, he's certainly important enough to be on RD, and the fact he isn't by now is ridiculous. At least put in on there in the meantime if people continue to debate a blurb. --PlasmaTwa2 23:25, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • The reason he hasn't been posted to RD yet is that the article was initially not of sufficient quality with many missing citations. That has now been addressed (there is one incomplete citation, but that's not (imo) a blocker but it's enough I want another opinion before posting). Listing someone on RD while discussion continues about a blurb is not without precedent. Thryduulf (talk) 00:55, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support RD, Oppose Blurb I agree with Thryduulf. My neutrality on a blurb has run out; this will not obtain consensus as a blurb, so I am opposed. As far as quality, I agree with Thryduulf that it's not spotless but it is good enough. User:力 (powera, π, ν) 01:06, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • RD is ready No more citation needed tags. – Muboshgu (talk) 01:32, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • RD posted Quality issues resolved. While there's been a lot of input regarding a blurb already, I'm leaving the discussion open on that front as it's only been one day.—Bagumba (talk) 01:49, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb - Top of his fields - Super Bowl Winner, never had a losing season, Hall of Fame member. Broadcasting legend, 12 Emmy Awards among other broadcasting honors. Video game institution, with well over 4 billion dollars of Madden NFL sold over decades. A multi-generational icon in numeous fields. Unexpected sudden death. Add it all up, it deserves a blurb. Opposers utterly fail to convince otherwise. Jusdafax (talk) 02:57, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Unconditional Support Madden reshaped and changed the game of American football in so many ways, words alone don't do enough to explain... Where would the NFL be without him!?!?     CPLANAS1985 (Male • T • C • TW • IG) 04:20, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

RD: Hugo Maradona

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Article: Hugo Maradona (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): SSC Napoli AP, Reuters, DW
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Count Iblis (talk) 18:59, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Grichka Bogdanoff

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Article: Igor and Grichka Bogdanoff (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Independent, Le Monde, Europe 1
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: One half of the Bogdanoff brothers, a pair of French celebrities and television presenters. userdude 17:07, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

All recently deceased people with pages are notable for RD. There is a blurb discussion ongoing for Madden, and there is not one going on here. Your vote makes no sense. Kafoxe (talk) 15:05, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The opposition against John Madden's inclusion is only limited for the Blurb, not RD. He is definitely eligible for RD. Don't spill the argument over here. (PenangLion (talk) 16:53, 29 December 2021 (UTC))[reply]

(Posted) RD: Caliadi

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Article: Caliadi (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CNN
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Bureaucrat who worked in the ministry of religious affairs. Reached the highest possible office for Buddhists. Died a week after an unfair dismissal by the minister. Regards, Jeromi Mikhael 14:56, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Poking @Juxlos and Nyanardsan: to see if they can take a look. --Regards, Jeromi Mikhael 06:40, 31 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) 2021–22 Ashes series

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Article: 2021–22 Ashes series (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In cricket, Australia retains The Ashes after winning the first three Tests against England. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In cricket, England lose the The Ashes to Australia, after scoring 68, their lowest innings total on Australian soil since 1904.
Alternative blurb II: ​ In cricket, The Ashes are retained by Australia after winning the first three Tests against England.
News source(s): The Guardian, Reuters
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Although there are two more Tests scheduled, WP:ITNSPORTS says "In terms of timing, events are generally posted as soon as a winner is determined."  Bait30  Talk 2 me pls? 03:29, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • This seems okay to me in Australian English. The TV broadcast in Australia listed it as "Australia wins" and "Australia retains the Ashes" (not win or retain). Probably needs an Aussie to confirm whether wins or win is correct down under. Joseph2302 (talk) 22:19, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted before I hit the sack here in America. No problem posting cricket. Bait30, admins are volunteers here too, working on their own time. There is no need to repeat pleas for posting. Feel free to seek the admin tools if you are more available for posting than others(that goes for HiLo48 too). Good night. 331dot (talk) 01:11, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I reckon I'd make a great Admin, but there are far too many existing Admins whose blatant POV pushing I've called out over the years for it to ever be likely to happen. HiLo48 (talk) 02:16, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

December 27

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December 27, 2021 (2021-12-27) (Monday)

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

(Posted) RD: Naren Chandra Das

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Article: Naren Chandra Das (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NDTV
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Indian army soldier. Article has shaped into a start-class biography. Meets basic hygiene expectations for homepage / RD. Ktin (talk) 01:25, 2 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

RD: April Ashley

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Article: April Ashley (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC, Liverpool Echo
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Model, actress and trans-trailblazer, MBE in 2012. Already long enough (4521 characters or 777 words of readable prose), this wikibio could use more footnotes, but looks okay already. --PFHLai (talk) 13:31, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I did ask... Martinevans123 (talk) 10:58, 31 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Bruce Davis

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Article: Bruce Davis (offensive tackle) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NBC Sports
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Won two Super Bowls with the Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders. —Bagumba (talk) 10:55, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Keri Hulme

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Article: Keri Hulme (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): RNZ, Stuff
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: comprehensive and fully referenced article MurielMary (talk) 07:55, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for picking up on that. Fixed. Also, I believe this nom was correctly posted at 28 Dec as that was the date that the death was announced. MurielMary (talk) 08:26, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
We go by date of death unless there’s a significant delay in the announcement of more than a few days. Stephen 10:22, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support. The claim in the lede that "Hulme's writing explores themes of isolation, postcolonial and multicultural identity and Maori, Celtic, and Norse mythology" is not sourced or explained in the body. Otherwise it looks good. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 17:26, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the feedback - have added some citations and will add a bit more detail in the body. Should be ready to post. MurielMary (talk) 21:56, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

December 26

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December 26, 2021 (2021-12-26) (Sunday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Health and environment

Politics and elections

(Posted) RD: Naren Gupta

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Article: Naren Gupta (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Economic Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Indian-American venture capitalist. Article requires some edits before being ready for homepage / RD. Updates done. Meets hygiene expectations for homepage / RD. Ktin (talk) 02:33, 31 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Phua Bah Lee

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Article: Phua Bah Lee (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Straits Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Notable Singapore parliamentarian with 20 years of service; first president of the Singapore Armed Forces Reservist Association. Seloloving (talk) 09:03, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Manikka Vinayagam

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Article: Manikka Vinayagam (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Hindustan Times
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Indian Tamil language singer. Article is a tad on the smaller side. Rater.js, however, classifies it as a start-class biography. Ktin (talk) 06:15, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Jean-Marc Vallée

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Article: Jean-Marc Vallée (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CNN
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Canadian television and film director. He directed Dallas Buyers Club, Wild, and directed Big Little Lies and Sharp Objects  Bait30  Talk 2 me pls? 15:42, 27 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted RD) RD/Blurb: E. O. Wilson

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Article: E. O. Wilson (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  American biologist E. O. Wilson dies at the age of 92. (Post)
News source(s): NYT, Reuters
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American biologist. Long but seems somewhat disorganized. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 13:15, 27 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Tutu cannot stay in the lead forever, the blurb will get bumped down as is standard practice. 331dot (talk) 19:58, 27 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Please indicate the areas that are poorly sourced. 331dot (talk) 19:59, 27 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Two important deaths can happen at a time, no reason for opposing one for the other. If the drop from the lead is a concern, than can be handled by prolonging the stay of Tutu's image but eventually it will have to give space as well. Gotitbro (talk) 20:30, 27 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The comment about the US should be disregarded. The work of a scientist will/can be built on by people from any country and benefit all people. It is not like a politician, actor, or a legal issue that can only affect a localised region. There are not enough science stories on ITN, and these should be judged by scientific impact, not whether the average person realises if it is important. Else it would just be filled by sport and entertainment fluff Bumbubookworm (talk) 02:27, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb. In reviewing his article and the news about him, he seems to be at the top of his field, considered a modern day Darwin. I think the last scientist blurb we posted was Stephen Hawking so it would be good to have some other science areas represented. 331dot (talk) 20:03, 27 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Blurb or no blurb, this wikibio should not go onto ITN till after the orange OR tag in the Work section is resolved. --PFHLai (talk) 20:38, 27 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb - Not a high profile individual outside of their immediate professional field and country of origin. This nomination feels like a result of WP:BIAS. Melmann 23:28, 27 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Melmann I don't think Stephen Hawking or Desmond Tutu were high profile outside of their fields, that's kinda the point here, they were at the top of their field. You seem to be saying that it's impossible to nominate anything to do with the US here without bias. The way to counter bias is to make nominations in underrepresented areas, not to suppress other stories. 331dot (talk) 23:33, 27 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Both Stephen Hawking and Desmond Tutu have had outsized impact outside of their immediate professional fields, and have at the same time been at the peak of their own professional area of expertise. Systemic bias comes in with the fact that no non-US scientist, only notable for their professional achievements, would ever be posted about in ITN. For example, see Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates/February 2020#(Stale) RD: Rajendra K. Pachauri as an example of what happens when non-US scientists die (and this is only a RD nomination, not even blurb nomination). It's not about suppressing US scientists, it's about applying same standard to this nomination, as we would to any non-US nomination. Melmann 00:25, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Melmann I work to do that every day that I am here, and have for years. We can only consider what is nominated. I hereby invite you to nominate persons equivalent to this one who are also at the tip top of their field and/or also compared to Darwin in inportance. That is the best way to work against bias. 331dot (talk) 00:39, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb, support RD - prominent in his scientific field, but not a transformative figure in global cultural context. --Soman (talk) 23:44, 27 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong support blurb The comment about the US should be disregarded. The work of a scientist will/can be built on by people from any country and benefit all people. It is not like a politician, actor, or a legal issue that can only affect a localised region. There are not enough science stories on ITN, and these should be judged by scientific impact, not whether the average person realises if it is important. Else it would just be filled by sport and entertainment fluff. And if 'cultural context' was required then a towering academic who lacks 'charisma' would be passed over for academic entertainers/social icons such as Ruther Bader Ginsburg (which I opposed) while physicists such as Murray Gell-Mann was passed over while Hawking was blurbed despite not necessarily being more notably at a technical level. Bumbubookworm (talk) 02:27, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
'Strong support' = support. – Sca (talk) 14:23, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Paul B. Kidd

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Article: Paul B. Kidd (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): 9 News; Yahoo! News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Important figure in Australian talk radio and crime literature. Article is ~500 words, updated, and fully cited. Vaticidalprophet 03:01, 27 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Sarah Weddington

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Article: Sarah Weddington (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Texas Tribune, AP, BBC, France24
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Count Iblis (talk) 02:30, 27 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted RD) RD/Blurb: Karolos Papoulias

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Article: Karolos Papoulias (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  Former President of Greece Karolos Papoulias (pictured) dies at the age of 92. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Karolos Papoulias (pictured), the former President of Greece, dies at the age of 92.
News source(s): Reuters The Washington Post
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Former president of Greece, article looks good, died at the age of 92, also known for his resistance against Nazi occupation during World War Two and against Greece's 1967-74 military junta. BastianMAT (talk) 17:07, 26 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment: Please add more refs. There are currently no footnotes in the section on his time as Minister for Foreign Affairs. Most bullet-points in the Honours section are unref'd. --PFHLai (talk) 19:03, 26 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Can't support a blurb for an article this short (well long enough to post but almost no details to explain why he would be blurb-worthy, compared to today's Desmand Tutu posting which clearly has the breadth of coverage to support a blurb). --Masem (t) 19:27, 26 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose on quality referencing is not good. Article quality will need to be improved significantly before this can be posted as an RD. I'd also note that according to List of current heads of state and government, it is the Prime Minister in Greece that administers the executive, so unless he's being nominated as a blurb-worthy diplomat--which, based on the article, is a reasonable nomination--I don't think he's blurb-worthy. NorthernFalcon (talk) 23:35, 26 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: I RD nominated this article, I did not add the blurb. Someone else did, and while his career indeed was impressive, I am personally for an RD due to the signficance not being as high and the article not as good, and thats exactly why I RD nominated it. So that’s where the discussion should be held. I have added citations for his time as foreign minister so the citations for the article should soon be done for a RD post. Cheers, @NorthernFalcon:, @Masem:, @PFHLai: BastianMAT (talk) 23:58, 26 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • RD only I believe there is a problem regarding his role as the Prime Minister of Greece due to less international coverage for him, so making this blurb doesn't much blurb-worthy. 36.77.102.62 (talk) 00:40, 27 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support RD: Looks good for an RD. Blurb has not been justified either by the nom or the person who added it, neither am I seeing the significance from the article or otherwise. Gotitbro (talk) 03:14, 27 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose He was for 10 years president of the republic and his wikibio only talks about his appointment and the end of his mandate. I don't think that a list of government positions he held is the best either. Very improvable article. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 11:52, 27 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb once the article is improved to reflect his political career better (I don't agree with those arguing that he doesn't deserve a blurb because of the article's length and lack of information. Please note that we posted a blurb for Zhou Youguang's death even though the article about him wasn't that detailed.). The death of a head of state of a European country with more than 10 million inhabitants who left his office only six years ago after he had held it for ten years clearly merits a blurb. --Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 12:42, 27 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • Youguang had two clear achievements, creating the Pinyin system and that he lived to 111. Probably nowadays we wouldn't have given him a blurb but his article did document those achievements. For a person that spent 10 years as HoS of a major country, however, Papoulis' article begs the question of what significant impact he had on his country and world politics. I'm sure there's more that can be written towards that, but that would be required to have something even as a minimum for a blurb to make sense. What's there is sufficient for an RD. --Masem (t) 13:04, 27 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comments: There are still a handful of {cn} tags, and the coverage has a big gap: a biography of the two-term president ought to have at least a paragraph or two about what he did during those ten years in office. Blurb or no blurb, this nom cannot proceed without these deficiencies addressed. --PFHLai (talk) 02:36, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb In fact, the same was said when I proposed that Jorge Sampaio should have a blurb, and it's only logical that it was rejected, since they are still cerimonial positions, with little less international transcendence than heads of government and, in the case of Papoulias as well, they didn't leave a special legacy worthy of recognition. As I have free time, I'm expanding his article and adding sources. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 10:13, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Cn's still outstanding.—Bagumba (talk) 04:48, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment @NorthernFalcon:, @Masem:, @PFHLai:, @Bagumba: I've been fixing the cn tags and expanding the content of Papoulias wikibio with what I've been finding on the internet with English sources. Can you take a look at it and evaluate how it is now? _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 16:54, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support RD Article has been fixed. Good work @Alsoriano97:! --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 17:09, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support RD now that it is fully referenced. Kafoxe (talk) 17:25, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted Consensus only for RD.—Bagumba (talk) 20:06, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment by nominator Added @Alsoriano97: too for the credits as he really did a great job on improving the article. If someone can also give him a credit tag, do that as I think he deserves one too for updating the article.

(Posted) RD: Janice Long

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Article: Janice Long (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: A couple of citations still needed, but the article is comprehensive Thryduulf (talk) 14:24, 26 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted, Closed) RD/blurb: Desmond Tutu

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A GA was posted in less than an hour. Consensus exists for a blurb. This is about as open-shut as it gets. Any concerns regarding the blurb itself should be taken to WP:ERRORS. --WaltCip-(talk) 14:08, 26 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

 
Article: Desmond Tutu (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  South African archbishop Desmond Tutu (pictured) dies aged 90. (Post)
News source(s): Reuters, AP, BBC, Guardian
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
 – Muboshgu (talk) 07:13, 26 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not opposing this nomination (in fact, I would have readily supported it), but was there a need to post this after just 52 minutes of discussion? Tube·of·Light 08:58, 26 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Well, the wikipage was reviewed and was deemed ready for use on ITN. Seems somewhat of a no-brainer to me. --PFHLai (talk) 09:06, 26 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Highly notable figure, GA quality article, heading for WP:SNOW territory. Posting was appropriate. Mjroots (talk) 10:34, 26 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, I understand that this is a no-brainer, but I still don't think there was a reason to not wait for a bit more participation. Oh well, it's not a big issue to me, so let's leave it at that. Tube·of·Light 12:30, 26 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, see the recent one we posted about F. W. de Klerk. Gotitbro (talk) 13:39, 26 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
We can't list all his accomplishments in the blurb, but WP:ERRORS is the correct venue for proposed changes. 331dot (talk) 13:44, 26 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The blurb is very bare bones right now though, apartheid is not mentioned at all (see for e.g. Klerk). I thought alt blurb/blurbs could discussed here? Anyhow a good article has been blurbed so not that much of a bother for forum change. Gotitbro (talk) 13:54, 26 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Concurrent discussion at Wikipedia_talk:In_the_news#Blurb_copy-editing.—Bagumba (talk) 04:44, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Comment The nomination was opened and closed in 7 hours, whereupon a discussion of a blurb correction commenced at ERRORS which has now been open for 26 hours without action. This discussion should have taken place in the high-traffic venue of ITNC, and shuttling it off to ERRORS where it can be ignored seems to be improper. GreatCaesarsGhost 20:57, 27 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
This is under discussion on the talk page, where you yourself have commented. 331dot (talk) 21:02, 27 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

December 25

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December 25, 2021 (2021-12-25) (Saturday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

Science and technology

(Posted) RD: Jonathan Spence

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Article: Jonathan Spence (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NYTimes
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American historian. Article requires a round of edits. Ktin (talk) 20:08, 27 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Wayne Thiebaud

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Article: Wayne Thiebaud (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Sacramento Bee,The Guardian, KCRA
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Internationally-known California artist. Worked past the age of 100, died at 101. CoatCheck (talk) 03:15, 27 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Ray Illingworth

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Article: Ray Illingworth (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Former England international cricket captain. Needs a significant amount of work, if anyone has holiday boredom. Black Kite (talk) 16:01, 25 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) James Webb Space Telescope

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Articles: James Webb Space Telescope (talk · history · tag) and Ariane flight VA256 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The James Webb Space Telescope launches from the Guiana Space Centre in French Guiana, beginning a planned 10-year mission to study the formation and evolution of the earliest stars and galaxies. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The James Webb Space Telescope is launched, beginning a planned 10-year mission to study the formation and evolution of the earliest stars and galaxies.
Alternative blurb II: ​ The James Webb Space Telescope is launched, beginning a planned 10-year mission to study the formation and evolution of the earliest stars and galaxies, and detailed atmospheric characterization of potentially habitable exoplanets.
Alternative blurb III: ​ Ariane flight VA256, carrying the James Webb Space Telescope (depicted), is launched.
News source(s): The New York Times,The Guardian, NASA
Credits:

Nominator's comments: James Webb actually got launched. No hitting Santa. Will probably start doing science in about 6 months. Probably most notable non-manned launch since Hubble's last service mission back in 2009. 2A02:2F0E:D003:2E00:6898:79D7:D00B:2CE8 (talk) 13:03, 25 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: this image is from NASA TV so it ought not to be copyrighted - maybe someone can bother to upload it here. 2A02:2F0E:D003:2E00:6898:79D7:D00B:2CE8 (talk) 13:03, 25 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
That image was taken by ESA's upper stage and is likely not owned by NASA. May I suggest File:James Webb Space Telescope Launch.jpg instead which was shared by NASA on their Flickr with an appropriate license? Melmann 13:24, 25 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
BBC use of that image is credited to Arianespace which would suggest it's copyrighted to them. (I don't want to think about copyrightability of a still from a video taken in outerspace on a camera that may or may not remotely operated.) -- KTC (talk) 14:30, 25 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
NASA had this article about it on 6 Jan 2020 (tho I note their qualifier "may" in their title, and "possible" in "possible biosignature" in their text)): New Technique May Give NASA's Webb Telescope a Way to Quickly Identify Planets with Oxygen.Tlhslobus (talk) 19:01, 25 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
That is too much for a blurb since it's multinational. You certainly don't want to appoint a arbitrary "lead", references to the "NASA" Hubble have been causing annoyances for years on a 50/50 joint venture. 3142 (talk) 22:39, 25 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

December 24

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December 24, 2021 (2021-12-24) (Friday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sports

  • Japan decides not to send government delegates to the 2022 Winter Olympics, although the Japanese team will still be present. (CBC)

(Posted) RD: Gwendolyn Killebrew

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Article: Gwendolyn Killebrew (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Fono Forum
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American contralto and mezzo who began at the Metropolitan Opera but became at home for 4 decades at the Deutsche Oper am Rhein, and was a guest in the world. I began the article in 2014, DYK then, but had to replace many lost refs, and added what I found now. The news was of yesterday. Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:34, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • This wikibio is READY for RD. More than long enough and with enough footnotes across the prose. AGF'd non-English sources. --PFHLai (talk) 13:04, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per above.-- Pawnkingthree (talk) 14:42, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Gerda Arendt: Any clarity on the year of birth? The two encyclopedia sources state 1939 but the age at death is given as 80 in several sources. Espresso Addict (talk) 01:47, 30 December 2021 (UTC) Support. Espresso Addict (talk) 09:46, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose An RD shouldn't have contradictory facts about a person's age. One the one hand , the article is open-ended about her birthyear ("1939, or 1941)", but then later defintively states that she died "at the age of 80". They need to be consistent, one way or another, based on the weight of the sources.—Bagumba (talk) 04:23, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Bagumba Generally: opera singers have tried to be taken for younger than they were, she would be one of many in that respect, and we won't even know if she "tried" or if the date was just misread at some point. We talk two years, and two years which don't matter for her achievements. The encyclopedia that I can see, which is the "bible" for opera singers, has 1941 which matches the age at death given by the Munich Opera where she worked the longest. I'd just accept that and mention the other in a footnote. We may ever know which one is right. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:34, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    @Gerda Arendt: I'll leave it to you and other subject experts. I only ask that we either 1) pick one birth year (based on weight of sources) and mention their age at death or 2) be open-ended on the birth year and don't defintively state a death age. Happy New Year.—Bagumba (talk) 07:41, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I've just taken the age at death out for safety (I think it's quite likely the subject shaved a couple of years off her dob at some point), without having noticed this comment -- do you really need it in, Bagumba? Espresso Addict (talk) 09:46, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Espresso Addict: Actually, it seemed like Gerda Arendt had settled on 1941 as the birth year. In that case, I'm OK with the age 80, since there are no longer multiple birth years, but I don't "need it in" either.—Bagumba (talk) 09:53, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Going offline now, so I'll leave someone else to decide... Espresso Addict (talk) 09:55, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Fact is that all obits I've seen state "at age 80". If we go by these sources, we can as well say so in the article, but it's nothing I'd want to waste time over. We don't know yet what a gravestone will say. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:08, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: J. D. Crowe

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Article: J. D. Crowe (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NYT
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American bluegrass musician. Thin but getting there. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 21:41, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Mo So massacre

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Article: Mo So massacre (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ At least 38 civilians were killed and their bodies burned by Army in Myanmar. (Post)
News source(s): Al Jazeera, ABC News, BBC News, AP, Reuters
Credits:

 Ainty Painty (talk) 05:32, 27 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - I would suggest restructuring the article. The blurb isn't grammatically correct, and is difficult to read. (PenangLion (talk) 07:37, 27 December 2021 (UTC))[reply]
Comment - The blurb could use some work, but I support its inclusion. This has become a really big thing in the news at the moment, quote literally making headlines. Dunutubble (talk) 17:29, 27 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - Informations further added into the article. The blurb really needs restructuring. But I support its inclusion, since it is a big news at the moment. Cyclonicationly (talk) 07:20, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Shirley Bottolfsen

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Article: Shirley Bottolfsen (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.nrk.no/nordland/shirley-bottolfsen-er-dod-1.15785656
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Irish-Norwegian humanitarian activist. A short wikibio with 2457 characters (419 words) of readable prose. --PFHLai (talk) 08:31, 26 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Bangladesh ferry fire

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Article: 2021 Bangladesh ferry fire (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ At least 39 people are killed in a ferry fire in southern Bangladesh. (Post)
News source(s): CNN, Al Jazeera, BBC, Hindustan Times, ABC, AP
Credits:

Article needs updating

Nominator's comments: Personally, I have my doubts on this nomination (since I want all of your advices), but it recently happened, and the death toll is expected to rise as much as 50. Besides with another similar disaster at Madagascar that is more worthy of an inclusion, I'm not really that confident (apologies), but if the article can be updated, then maybe it could be ITN-worthy. (PenangLion (talk) 12:53, 24 December 2021 (UTC))[reply]

December 23

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December 23, 2021 (2021-12-23) (Thursday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

(Posted) RD: Grace Mirabella

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Article: Grace Mirabella (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NYT
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Editor-in-chief of Vogue (1971-1988) prior to Anna Wintour. Joofjoof (talk) 22:42, 24 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment. Bit concerned about the section on her being fired from Vogue (though Newhouse has been dead since 2017). Is there nothing else to say about her life outside work -- education in 1950, marriage in 1974, death in 2021 seems a little sparse. Espresso Addict (talk) 04:03, 25 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I've hidden this for now; the reference fails to give page numbers and I've failed to find it in a quick look at a preview of the book. Page numbers for other uses of this book and for her autobiography would also be helpful, as would an independent source for the claims based purely on her autobiography. Espresso Addict (talk) 06:43, 25 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Joan Didion

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Article: Joan Didion (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Pawnkingthree (talk) 17:27, 23 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Launch of the James Webb Space Telescope

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Closing as premature, can be nominated when actually launched. 331dot (talk) 13:22, 23 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

 
Article: James_Webb_Space_Telescope (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The James Webb Space Telescope launches from the Guiana Space Centre in French Guiana, beginning a planned 10-year mission to study the formation and evolution of the earliest stars and galaxies. (Post)
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Working blurb contingent upon a successful launch of the JWST. --Xarm Endris (talk) 12:26, 23 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose way too soon, as it hasn't happened (and until it actually happens, we shouldn't assume it wil). In addition, people shouldn't be adding dates in the future as headers, as this will screw up the bot. Joseph2302 (talk) 13:15, 23 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Close and revert - This nom also resulted in the creation of a malformed category in ITN/C. This is going to screw up the bot that automatically creates this category when December 25th rolls around at 0:00 GMT. WaltCip-(talk) 13:16, 23 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) Demolition of the Pillar of Shame

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Consensus to post is unlikely to develop.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 14:46, 23 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

 
Article: Pillar_of_Shame#Demolition_of_the_statue_in_December_2021 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Pillar of Shame (pictured), a statue at the University of Hong Kong commemorating the Tiananmen Square protests and massacre, is dismantled and removed. (Post)
News source(s): CNN, Reuters, AP, BBC, Washington Post
Credits:
Nominator's comments: This statute was one of the last public works memorializing the events of Tiananmen Square in Hong Kong. Its removal signals China's tightening grip on the once autonomous city. RockstoneSend me a message! 04:37, 23 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose minor event, and keeping in mind that Hong Kong is part of China, "China's tightening grip on the once autonomous city" is not surprising (not to mention it's a rather anti-China phrasing, as would featuring this event on ITN). Banedon (talk) 07:11, 23 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • No, but the massacre itself was a much more significant event than the demolition of one of the many memorials to the event. The anti-China aspect of it stems from what one chooses to report, and by choosing to report this (as opposed to, say, the 2021 Madagascar shipwreck or the Malaysian floods below, it conveys a clear message that we consider this removal to be inappropriate. Banedon (talk) 08:00, 23 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

December 22

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December 22, 2021 (2021-12-22) (Wednesday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

Law and crime

(Posted) RD: Franklin A. Thomas

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Article: Franklin A. Thomas (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NYTimes
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American business executive. Article looks good and ready for homepage / RD. I did not have to make any edits. Ktin (talk) 06:00, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Lester E. Fisher

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Article: Lester E. Fisher (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://wgnradio.com/news/remembering-dr-lester-fisher-former-director-of-lincoln-park-zoo-who-has-died-at-age-100/
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: "Chicago's Dr. Doolittle". Another short wikibio at about 300 words. --PFHLai (talk) 21:20, 25 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Poh Lip Meng

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Article: Poh Lip Meng (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CNA, Yahoo, The Straits Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Singaporean competitive sport shooter. Represented Singapore at international level and won some medals. – robertsky (talk) 16:21, 23 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Thomas Kinsella

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Article: Thomas Kinsella (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NYT
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Irish poet. Needs some ref work; I may be able to get to it in the next day or two. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 14:57, 23 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Frans Lebu Raya

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Article: Frans Lebu Raya (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Kompas]
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Regards, Jeromi Mikhael 07:32, 23 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Dmitry Zimin

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Article: Dmitry Zimin (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Andrei (talk) 18:42, 22 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

December 21

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December 21, 2021 (2021-12-21) (Tuesday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

RD: Gary Lee Sampson

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Article: Gary Lee Sampson (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.boston25news.com/news/local/notorious-new-england-spree-killer-gary-lee-sampson-is-dead/65356IVDDBETDEHXM4G4RG7KJE/
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: This B-class wikibio of an American bank robber and later spree killer is certainly long enough, and there are just a couple of {cn} tags left to deal with. --PFHLai (talk) 16:25, 26 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: George Alexander Albrecht

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Article: George Alexander Albrecht (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Neue Musikzeitung
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: German conductor and composer Grimes2 (talk) 21:50, 22 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: P. A. Ibrahim Haji

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Article: P. A. Ibrahim Haji (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Khaleej Times
Credits:

Article needs updating
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Indian businessman in the UAE. Article needs some work before it can be ready for homepage / RD. Edits done. Somewhere between a start-class and a C-class biography, though rater.js calls it a C. Meets basic hygiene expectations for homepage / RD. Ktin (talk) 18:30, 21 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Myrna Manzanares

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Article: Myrna Manzanares (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [10][11],[12]
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Never heard of her before just now, trying to fight systemic bias. I hope the source is reliable. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:06, 21 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

December 20

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December 20, 2021 (2021-12-20) (Monday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

(Posted) 2021 Madagascar shipwreck

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Article: 2021 Madagascar shipwreck (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ At least 85 people are killed in a shipwreck off the northeast coast of Madagascar (Post)
News source(s): France 24, AlJazeera
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Just created a basic article for this shipwreck which happened on Monday. Info is scarce, but 64 killed and 24 missing (plus 2 further missing from a helicopter crash carrying police to the site) - Dumelow (talk) 10:32, 22 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Most of the media don't take much interest in accidental sinkings of ships in poor countries which have no international angle. However, the sources are sufficient for the article. Jim Michael (talk) 13:49, 22 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Come on, folks. Tis the season and all that.--WaltCip-(talk) 16:54, 24 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Your invective violates WP:NPA, WP:AGF and WP:CIV. Disgusting and Inappropriate, especially now. Adieu toujours. – Sca (talk) 13:58, 23 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I appreciate you reinforcing my point. GreatCaesarsGhost 14:30, 23 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
WP:TLW – Sca (talk)

(Posted) RD: Kimera Bartee

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Article: Kimera Bartee (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [13]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 – Muboshgu (talk) 04:01, 22 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Malaysian floods

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Article: December 2021 Malaysian floods (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Floods in Malaysia kill at least 37 and displace over 71,000 people. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Floods in Malaysia leave at least 37 dead and 10 missing.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Floods in Malaysia displace over 71,000 people.
News source(s): The Guardian, Reuters, France 24, The Straits Times, Al Jazeera
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: A rare event in the country exacerbated by climate change, and has turned into one of the worst of its kind in the country's history. Death toll is still rising steadily. As of this edit, its 37 with 10 missing. (PenangLion (talk) 14:34, 20 December 2021 (UTC))[reply]

The only disaster currently on ITN which has a larger impact than this is Typhoon Rai. Jim Michael (talk) 08:32, 22 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Setting aside that my comment is two days old, Haiti has a higher death toll as well. This would also leave us with two mass casualty events deriving from typhoons in the same area. GreatCaesarsGhost 21:24, 22 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

December 19

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December 19, 2021 (2021-12-19) (Sunday)

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

Politics and elections

(Posted) RD: Madhur Kapila

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Article: Madhur Kapila (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Hindustan Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Indian Hindi language novelist. Article requires some expansion and some work before it can be ready for homepage / RD. I will get to it shortly. In case someone wants to lend a hand or two, jump right-in. Edits done. Article has shaped into a decent biography somewhere in between start and C-class. Meets hygiene expectations for homepage / RD. Ktin (talk) 23:05, 21 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Armenia wins Junior Eurovision

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WP:NAC: although the main Eurovision contest is on WP:ITNR, this junior version is far less significant. The universal opposition so far indicates there is no chance of this being posted. Closing per WP:SNOW. Modest Genius talk 13:57, 20 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Junior Eurovision Song Contest 2021 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ 14 years-old Maléna of Armenia wins the Junior Eurovision Song Contest 2021 in Paris (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Maléna wins Junior Eurovision 2021 for Armenia, bringing a second victory to her country
News source(s): https://junioreurovision.tv/story/armenia-wins-junior-eurovision-2021
Credits:
 Գարիկ Ավագյան (talk) 10:44, 20 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Robert H. Grubbs

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Article: Robert H. Grubbs (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Caltech
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Nobel Prize laureate in Chemistry Grimes2 (talk) 23:13, 19 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • This wikibio is long enough and has enough footnotes in expected spots, and thus looks good enough for RD purposes. However, when I clicked on a few of the linked refs (spot checks only -- I did not check every ref), I found a number of deadlinks. Can these ref-links be refreshed, please? Thanks. --PFHLai (talk) 05:30, 20 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  Done Grimes2 (talk) 08:26, 20 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, Grimes2. This is GOOD to GO on RD. --PFHLai (talk) 13:22, 20 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) 2021 Chilean general election

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Article: 2021 Chilean general election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Gabriel Boric (pictured) is elected President of Chile. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Gabriel Boric, of the leftist Broad Front, wins the Chilean presidential election.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Gabriel Boric (pictured), leader of Apruebo Dignidad, is elected President of Chile.
News source(s): NY Times, TRT World, DW, AP, BBC, Guardian, Reuters
Credits:

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Official result. Klast conceded defeat and all RS are calling Boric the winner. --Kacamata! Dimmi!!! 23:01, 19 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Strong support. Much more notable than the prime minister of Tonga. Also many people are following this story. hello, i'm a member | talk to me! 18:51, 20 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment This is ITNR, so no need to pile up the supports. As it has been pointed up above, some prose about the reactions/aftermath is missing, until then this cannot be posted because the article is not ready. People familiar with Chile should not have problem filling that in. --Tone 19:03, 20 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    @Tone: I've updated the article with some content from the Spanish Wikipedia. I think it would do fine with some copyediting, but so far it's ready to go IMHO. --Bedivere (talk) 21:48, 20 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support The article is now ready. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the adjective "leftist" derogatory in the United States? I know it is not the intention of the person who proposes the blurb, but maybe it can generate some inconvenience. And perhaps something could be added about the big upset it has caused. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 22:29, 20 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    But it wasn't an upset. Boric was favourite since the begging of the race. The upset, perhaps, was Klast get to the second round (his win in the first round was a surprise for many people). See all the opinion polls. Besides, I'd rather my original blurb which is more neutral. Kacamata! Dimmi!!! 00:23, 21 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Why are we using an old photograph of him, when we have the official one released by Gabriel Boric's team? --B1mbo (talk) 04:16, 21 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    cause it has been 29 days and Boric's team has yet to confirm that they have officially released the image for the licence needed for it to be used on wikimedia. If anything, the image is scheduled to be deleted tomorrow so using it on the ITN page today is a bad idea.27.123.136.73 (talk) 06:20, 21 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Nice, let's keep questioning why he hasn't sent another e-mail to OTRS while he is being elected President. Wikipedia, always surprising. --B1mbo (talk) 12:35, 21 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
It is nice of English Wikipedia to not use an image that may be violating his copyright... Joseph2302 (talk) 12:41, 21 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The file was released under CC-BY-SA by the President-elect himself and the document is available already on OTRS. So, no, it's not violating any copyright. --B1mbo (talk) 20:42, 21 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The fact that the OTRS has not been properly verified means it isn't released properly, and we shouldn't be using it until it is. Joseph2302 (talk) 22:06, 21 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Drakeo the Ruler

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Article: Drakeo the Ruler (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [14], [15], [16], [17]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Notable rapper fatally stabbed at Once Upon A Time music festival. Mooonswimmer (talk) 22:34, 19 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Carlos Marín

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Article: Carlos Marín (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Rolling Stone, Guardian
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Spanish baritone and a member of the classical crossover group Il Divo, who has sold over 28 million records worldwide. COVID-19. Death announced/being covered in sources today. RosameliaMartinezTorres (talk) 20:56, 19 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Johnny Isakson

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Article: Johnny Isakson (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NYTimes
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Recent U.S. senator and major political figure. Could be significantly expanded. Star Garnet (talk) 18:04, 19 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Doug Ericksen

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Article: Doug Ericksen (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NYTimes
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American state senator from Washington. COVID-19. Death announced/being covered in sources today. Kafoxe (talk) 17:01, 19 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

December 18

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December 18, 2021 (2021-12-18) (Saturday)

Arts and culture

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

(Posted) RD: Osagi Bascome

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Article: Osagi Bascome (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Active Bermuda international footballer stabbed to death at 23. Didn't have the longest career, or the most successful, but everything is sourced. 2A00:23C5:E187:5F00:3DEC:B91D:F988:C6C9 (talk) 19:05, 19 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the nom, long IP address! Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 19:06, 19 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Richard Rogers

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Article: Richard Rogers (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NYTimes
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Italian-British architect. Article requires some work but should be ready soon. I have filled all of the [citation needed] tags. I have not given it one end-to-end read / scrub though. If someone wants to take a look, please feel free to. Nothing too awkward that jumps out. I think this might be close to ready for homepage / RD. Ktin (talk) 01:59, 19 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

If it was failing BLP yesterday, it should have been deleted. Good enough yesterday, good enough today. The higher bar is only for blurbs, as this pages intro says ("... Other articles can also be linked"). Strange that MP should miss a RD name because of this. Sort of defeats ITN essence. And again: no rule for this found. -DePiep (talk) 08:38, 19 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"ITN essence", DePiep? You may have gotten ITN mixed up with Portal:Current events. RD in ITN is not the same as Deaths in 2021. --PFHLai (talk) 12:17, 19 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@PFHLai: I am quoting the from the lede of this very page named Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates § top we both are posting on. No need to divert. Now, the essence of the "N" part is that it is currently, eh, news. Adding a name days later misses that. Nothing to do with WP, all with the recentism of news. -DePiep (talk) 13:23, 19 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Then please quickly fix the problems in the article. --PFHLai (talk) 13:28, 19 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Au contraire. As you can read, I state that because it is News, and as an RD not free for us to choose timing of Mainpage appearance, add it to the RD hlist right away. -DePiep (talk) 14:17, 19 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
DePiep, if you want this article or any other article on RD, please help fix that wikipage quickly so that it can be used on RD while the news is still fresh. Timeliness is not the only criterion. --PFHLai (talk) 14:54, 19 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm ... sound effect. --Regards, Jeromi Mikhael 16:49, 19 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Not about "understanding". I am asking where that rule is. So far, I only found #Top section here that clearly differentiates between blurb and "other articles":

A blurb needs at least one target article, highlighted in bold; reviewers check the quality of that article and whether it is updated, and whether reliable sources demonstrate the significance of the event. Other articles can also be linked.

Now what do you not understand? -DePiep (talk) 11:10, 19 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
WP:ITN#Article quality: Articles should be well referenced; one or two "citation needed" tags may not hold up an article, but any contentious statements must have a source, and having entire sections without any sources is unacceptable. Unsectioned paragraphs like in this article mean it doesn't have the article quality. Joseph2302 (talk) 11:17, 19 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Well, thanks for that link. At last, a base. Now I do sense a slight diff with the top section here I quoted. But alas, time to change something. WP should not miss another Colon Powell or Stephen Sondheim RD for days this way. -DePiep (talk) 14:17, 19 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
WP did NOT miss Powell or Sondheim for days. They got onto Deaths in 2021 quite quickly. Their biographies got updated quickly. But it took days to fix them up to qualify for RD. Please help fix up the Rogers article instead of complaining here that it's not yet on RD. --PFHLai (talk) 14:59, 19 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Sayaka Kanda

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Article: Sayaka Kanda (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Variety, Japan Today, The Independent
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Singer and voice artist (e.g. voice of Anna in Japanese version of "Frozen"). Seriously popular (page had nearly 70,000 hits yesterday!). Fram (talk) 14:20, 20 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

December 17

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December 17, 2021 (2021-12-17) (Friday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

  • Russia–NATO relations
    • Russia demands that NATO end all military activity in Eastern Europe and never admit Ukraine as a member of the military alliance, saying that it wants a legally binding guarantee to end further eastward NATO expansion. Other demands include a Russian veto on Ukrainian membership in NATO, the removal of U.S. nuclear weapons from Europe, and the withdrawal of multinational NATO battalions from Poland and the Baltics. (Reuters)
    • A senior Biden regime official says that the U.S. is "prepared to discuss Russia's proposals" with its NATO allies, but says that "there are some things in those documents that the Russians know will be unacceptable." (Axios)

Law and crime

Politics and elections

(Posted) RD: Rusmono

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Article: Rusmono (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [18]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Suharto's former personal doctor. Held important offices in the Department of Health. Regards, Jeromi Mikhael 11:55, 19 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Osaka building fire

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Article: 2021 Osaka building fire (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A building fire breaks out in Osaka, Japan, killing 27 people. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Twenty-four people die in a building fire in Osaka, Japan.
News source(s): Al Jazeera, AP, BBC, Guardian, Reuters
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Worthy a blurb when expanision comes. ArsenalGhanaPartey (talk) 14:39, 17 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) New Prime Minister of Czech Republic

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Was posted back in October when the election was held. --Jayron32 18:35, 17 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

 
Article: Petr Fiala (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Petr Fiala (pictured) takes office as Prime Minister of the Czech Republic as part of a coalition government. (Post)
News source(s): Aljazzera, dpa, Guardian, Reuters
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Nominator's comments: Change of the head of goverment of an EU country, WP:ITNR. BastianMAT (talk) 13:57, 17 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
It's whomever has actual power, be it the president or the PM; it's not just head of state anymore. 331dot (talk) 14:38, 17 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
According to List of current heads of state and government it's the PM, not the president, so ITNR is correct. 331dot (talk) 14:39, 17 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) The policy at WP:ITNR states, "Changes in the holder of the office which administer the executive of their respective state/government, in those countries which qualify under the criteria above, as listed at List of current heads of state and government except when that change was already posted as part of a general election." The prime minister of the Czech Republic is listed as the primary executive, so THAT is the position that qualifies for ITNR. --Jayron32 14:40, 17 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • In line with the nomination for Bulgarian PM, we posted the result of election in October with Fiala likely PM, so this would be a duplication. I'd only support posting twice if at the time of the election it is not sure who will head the government, and then when the government is formed. --Tone 16:44, 17 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose as non-ITNR Since we posted formation of the coalition with Fiala as PM,[19] this is not ITNR. GreatCaesarsGhost 16:46, 17 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose as we already posted this change of government on 10 October. No need to post it again. This would be like posting the results of the US election, and posting it again on the day the President takes office. Which makes no sense. This is a stale nom, as the election was in October. Joseph2302 (talk) 16:53, 17 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) Typhoon Rai

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Article: Typhoon Rai (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ At least 112 people are dead after Typhoon Rai hits the Philippines. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Hundreds of thousands of people flee their homes as Typhoon Rai hits the Philippines.
News source(s): Reuters, Al-Jazeera, Washington Post GMA News NDRRMC AP News
Credits:

Article updated

 Ainty Painty (talk) 05:50, 17 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Preceding comment posted by Hurricane Noah. – Sca (talk) 14:26, 17 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support It's not about the number of deaths, it is about climate change/global warming causing severe weather events such as in the US concurrently this late in the year and extremely-rapid change to cat-5 intensity.
I edited the blub to include super typhoon, ect. but it still feels inadequit considering the impact in my slightlt biased opinion ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
GSMC(Chief Mike) Kouklis U.S.NAVY Ret. ⛮🇺🇸 / 🇵🇭🌴⍨talk 18:02, 17 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
We don't really cover events just because they may be tied to global warming. ITN is not good for superlatitive stories (eg this being the strongest storm since 20XX). We are looking at deaths and damage, not just that it happened during a period where these storms can happen in that area of the world. --Masem (t) 18:07, 17 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I removed the "super" as the designation is unofficial. Destroyeraa (Alternate account) 20:21, 17 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Log4Shell

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Closed as stale. --Tone 09:19, 17 December 2021 (UTC) Re-closing as stale; it is older than our oldest post. 331dot (talk) 10:01, 17 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Log4Shell (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Log4Shell, a zero-day exploit, is publicly disclosed, possibly affecting hundreds of millions of devices. (Post)
News source(s): Ars Technica, Financial Times, Wired
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Although this may not the sexiest news event, it possibly has some of the largest impacts. Many sources describing this as one of the most severe if not "the most severe vulnerability ever". 1 Estimated that hundreds of millions of devices were affected by this with the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency director calling Log4Shell "one of the most serious I’ve seen in my entire career, if not the most serious". This happened a few days ago, but we are now learning about the impact. WMrapids (talk) 02:09, 17 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

December 16

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December 16, 2021 (2021-12-16) (Thursday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

Politics and elections

(Posted) RD: Stefan Keil

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Article: Stefan Keil (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Jamaica
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Sudden death of an ambassador, became ill in the office - article new, a start Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:21, 18 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Lucía Hiriart

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Article: Lucía Hiriart (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Count Iblis (talk) 12:23, 17 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Bogalay Tint Aung

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Article: Bogalay Tint Aung (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC Burmese RFA Burmese
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Htanaungg (talk) 08:14, 17 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Henry Orenstein

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Article: Henry Orenstein (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [24], [25], [26]
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Recent death —Mooonswimmer (talk) 16:21, 16December 2021 (UTC)

(Closed) Thwaites glacier has been destabilized

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WP:SNOW, rather ironically. --Jayron32 16:03, 16 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Thwaites Glacier (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Thwaites Glacier is at risk of accelerated melting, raising global sea levels by feet within the next decades (Post)
News source(s): NBC, CIRES
Credits:

Article needs updating
Nominator's comments: "“Thwaites is the widest glacier in the world,” said Ted Scambos, a senior research scientist at the Cooperative Institute for Research in Environmental Sciences (CIRES). “It’s doubled its outflow speed within the last 30 years, and the glacier in its entirety holds enough water to raise sea level by over two feet. And it could lead to even more sea-level rise, up to 10 feet, if it draws the surrounding glaciers with it.” " Count Iblis (talk) 04:31, 16 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

December 15

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December 15, 2021 (2021-12-15) (Wednesday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

Law and crime

Politics and elections

RD: Fayez Tarawneh

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Article: Fayez Tarawneh (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.thenationalnews.com/mena/jordan/2021/12/15/former-jordanian-pm-fayez-tarawneh-dead-at-72/
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Does RD have the stomach for another short (300 words) wikibio? Anyone familiar with Middle Eastern politics are encouraged to help beef up this wikibio for a former PM of Jordan. --PFHLai (talk) 01:01, 17 December 2021 (UTC) I thought I should add that I think this wikibio is long enough for RD purposes. I was just hoping for more to read about this former PM. --PFHLai (talk) 05:55, 20 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: bell hooks

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Article: bell hooks (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Lexington Herald-Leader, The Guardian, USA Today, NPR, NBC News, NYT, Wall St. Journal, BBC News, AlJazeera
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Just died - prominent American academic and activist —Tom Morris (talk) 18:00, 15 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) New prime minister of Tonga

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Article: Siaosi Sovaleni (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Siaosi Sovaleni is elected Prime Minister of Tonga by the legislature. (Post)
News source(s): SCMP, Matangi Tonga
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: The general election was last month. Joofjoof (talk) 11:17, 15 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

LaserLegs In this case, it wasn't a foregone conclusion, because most of the deputies are independent. Even the two candidates for prime minister (Sovaleni and Eke) are not affiliated to any party.KittenKlub (talk) 19:23, 15 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
This article covers the coalition building in detail. Joofjoof (talk) 19:38, 15 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Most of those "independents" all rage quit the Democratic Party of the Friendly Islands it was essentially a third party calling itself "independent" of which Sovaleni is the leader. Come on. --LaserLegs (talk) 19:52, 15 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I think this article might show how uncertain it was (I was actually surprised that the nobles didn't do their usual and unite behind the minority candidate). As for most of the independents being former PTOA, that's due to the history of their extremely recent democracy, and its worth noting that most were elected against PTOA (and PTOA factional) candidates.--IdiotSavant (talk) 23:10, 15 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Since we didn't post the election, and since there was no "major party" win, it seems unusual enough to stand on it's own as an ITN nom but it still feels like a loophole ITNR. --LaserLegs (talk) 19:54, 15 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Due respect, but I don't see this as a technicality at all. The language is "Changes in the holder of the office...except when that change was already posted as part of a general election." Even if we had posted the election, we could not have posted the change in the holder of the office. This specific issue was adjudicated previously. Because coalition governments are usually headed by the election winner, we don't need to post twice (see Ireland in 2020). But if a different person emerges, it's very much noteworthy. GreatCaesarsGhost 01:10, 16 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

December 14

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December 14, 2021 (2021-12-14) (Tuesday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

Law and crime

Science and technology

(Posted) RD: Chris Wilkinson (architect)

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Article: Chris Wilkinson (architect) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Guardian (UK)
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: British architect. Works include Magna Science Adventure Centre, Gateshead Millennium Bridge, Guangzhou International Finance Center, Gardens by the Bay and of course the Compton and Edrich stands at the Lord's cricket ground. Edits done. Article meets hygiene expectations for homepage / RD. Ktin (talk) 21:08, 19 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Jethro

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Article: Jethro (comedian) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Metro
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Mjroots (talk) 09:52, 15 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Ken Kragen

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Article: Ken Kragen (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Deadline Hollywood
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Producer that organized "We Are the World" and "Hands Across America". Article needs some sourcing help Masem (t) 01:38, 15 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Riccardo Ehrman

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Article: Riccardo Ehrman (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Ansa
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: That Italian journalist who asked the best question at the best time in 1989. The article is a Start, but KittenKlub has done a good job of citing sources and expanding the content. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 22:37, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Cap-Haïtien fuel tanker explosion

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Article: Cap-Haïtien fuel tanker explosion (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A fuel tanker explosion in Cap-Haïtien kills at least 60 people. (Post)
News source(s): BBC, AP, Reuters, AlJazeera, AFP (via France 24),dpa
Credits:

Nominator's comments: I know we don't like bus plunge-type stories but I think this is worth discussing. At least 50 dead. Haitian president Ariel Henry has declared three days of national mourning. Article is obviously not up to snuff yet - Dumelow (talk) 14:18, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Abraham Lunggana

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Article: Abraham Lunggana (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [27] (in Indonesian)
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: (Mostly) local politician in Jakarta Juxlos (talk) 05:23, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

December 13

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December 13, 2021 (2021-12-13) (Monday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Sports

(Posted) RD: Blackberri

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Article: Blackberri (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Bay Area Reporter
Credits:

Article needs updating
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American singer-songwriter and community activist. TJMSmith (talk) 20:39, 15 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Long enough and with enough footnotes, this wikibio is READY for RD. I'm mildly concerned about the copyright status of the photo in the infobox, though. Really cc-by-4.0? --PFHLai (talk) 18:00, 16 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Charles R. Morris

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Article: Charles R. Morris (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NYTimes
Credits:

Article needs updating
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American banker and economist. Article requires significant uplift before it can be ready for homepage / RD. I will get to it later tonight. If someone wants to get to it before me, please feel free to do so. Ktin (talk) 15:08, 15 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Jimmy Rave

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Article: Jimmy Rave (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Daily Mirror, PWInsider
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Former professional wrestler. Sceptre (talk) 21:17, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Verónica Forqué

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Article: Verónica Forqué (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): El Mundo, El País
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Spanish actress. NoonIcarus (talk) 20:47, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Miss Universe 2021

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WP:SNOW close. Unlikely to generate consensus to post. --Jayron32 17:38, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Miss Universe 2021 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Harnaaz Sandhu of India is crowned Miss Universe 2021. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In Miss Universe 2021, held in Eilat,Israel, Harnaaz Sandhu of India is crowned as the winner.
News source(s): CNN
Credits:

Article updated
 ArsenalGhanaPartey (talk) 16:44, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • To take your question about the other Universe competitions at face value, I don't think we generally post any of them (or ITN/R would be involved...), but to ask that is to imply that all events run by the same company are equally newsworthy and otherwise notable. Kingsif (talk) 17:55, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Why aren't the spectators wearing bikinis? Should de rigueur. – Sca (talk) 15:08, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • What makes the pageant organizers an authority on beauty, and what impact does the pageant have on society? Would you nominate my 331dot's Beauty Pageant? Movies and beauty are two completely different animals, as is The Academy and the organizers of this event. 331dot (talk) 20:08, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Objets de femmes? – Sca (talk) 14:55, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"The sexual objectification of women involves them being viewed primarily as an object of male sexual desire, rather than as a whole person". Not just in France, in fact. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:41, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) Conviction of Inger Støjberg

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WP:SNOW closing. Unlikely to develop consensus to post --Jayron32 18:06, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

 
Article: Inger Støjberg (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In Denmark, former Minister for Integration Inger Støjberg is impeached and sentenced to sixty days in prison. (Post)
News source(s): Euronews
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: Not sure if this passes muster for ITN, but it seems significant. According to the BBC [28], this was Denmark's first impeachment trial since 1995, with their only being six in history, so this is not a country where they take such decisions lightly. I understand the article on the trial itself is pretty short, and that nobody updated the bio until me, but the story itself seems notable. Allowing for alt blurbs if the legalese is incorrect. Unknown Temptation (talk) 16:41, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Which Spanish ministers are in prison due to conduct related to their job? I would have supported that too. 331dot (talk) 21:15, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
It is light compared to the general population, but rare for high government officials. If Donald Trump sees the inside of a cell for only 24 hours, it would be big news.331dot (talk) 21:22, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
If you need to compare the president of the United States to a low-ranking minister in Denmark, you are not making the point that you think you are. GreatCaesarsGhost 22:02, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
GreatCaesarsGhost I'm not comparing the former President to anything, just noting it is rare for high government officials to see prison. If it makes you feel better, use Wilbur Ross. 331dot (talk) 22:15, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
That's still the wrong form of government. This is like Birthe Rønn Hornbech getting pinched for the Palestinian sagsbehandling. Or Rikke Hvilshøj's car catching fire. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:27, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think you're comprehending how short a sentence this is. The punishment for simple assault is up to 6 months. I know someone who received several years for signing for his roommate's parcel delivery. I have no doubt Ross committed many crimes during his time in office. While I would be suprised if he faced prosecution for any of them, I would certainly see a two-month sentence as a miscarriage of justice. Aside, it is extremely bad form to criticise every !vote on a nom you disagree with. GreatCaesarsGhost 16:06, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The blurb should be altered in that case. Still, can't see a case for a ministerial impeachment being notable enough for ITN in Denmark or otherwise [doesn't appear to be an above the fold news internationally as well, even Euro News somewhat buries it]. Heads of state/government would have been different (which is ITNR, I believe). Gotitbro (talk) 22:07, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Though, I would like to add, the reason for her impeachment is interesting and important enough (related to the current immigration crisis) and I would perhaps support if presented in the blurb as such. But the article is no shape to be on the main page: half uncited, half is of controversies with an unneeded fork on impeachment to boot. Gotitbro (talk) 22:11, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose My opinion is that if "government ministers who were imprisoned due to actions in office" are a thing then this ITN would be brimming with social ministers. Basically with the exception of one cabinet, every social minister in the last cabinet is now serving time in prison. Last time our social minister was technically "almost sentenced to death". So, yeah, this isn't a thing. Regards, Jeromi Mikhael 02:20, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – Per Jeromi, Alsoriano. Lacks general significance; scant reader interest. – Sca (talk) 13:16, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I'm curious as to how you judged reader interest for the English speaking world, and where that is found in WP:ITN as a criteria. It does state "To point readers to subjects they might not have been looking for but nonetheless may interest them." 331dot (talk) 15:02, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I quickscanned my (secure) personal memory/factoid database, which comprises more than 500 million items. – Sca (talk) 15:16, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

New Prime Minister of Bulgaria

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Article: Kiril Petkov (politician) (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Kiril Petkov (pictured) is elected Prime Minister of Bulgaria as part of a coalition government. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Kiril Petkov (pictured) is elected Prime Minister of Bulgaria as part of a coalition government, ending 8 months of political stalemate.
News source(s): RadioFreeEurope Bulgarian National Television
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Change of the head of goverment of an EU country, WP:ITNR. Ends an 8 month political stalemate after 3 national elections. BastianMAT (talk) 14:25, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose on quality surely there's more that can be said about him other than the last 3 months? Also, article is in violation of WP:Controversy sections- this should be covered in a general paragraph. Also, infobox implies he gave up Canadian citizenship, but this isn't in article anywhere? Also, the parties in the coalition aren't sourced in his article, we shouldn't be blurbing text not found in the bolded article. In principle, support as change of government is ITNR, but the article isn't quite good enough yet IMO. Also added an ALT2, as not sure listing all those party acronyms is helpful in ITN blurb. Joseph2302 (talk) 14:54, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per above; there's rather large gaps in his biography and I would expect more for a major world leader. Furthermore, WP:PROSELINE is a problem; the article would need to be re-written into a more natural narrative tone. --Jayron32 15:34, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment the proposed image has been nominated for deletion on Commons, though I believe the deletion rationale is incorrect. The copyright status of that photo should be checked by an admin before adding the image on front page here. Joseph2302 (talk) 15:41, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support I don't see the article in bad condition. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 18:19, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose and not ITN/R. We posted the election, this is a formality. [29] --LaserLegs (talk) 19:22, 15 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • This is ITNR. Since he is leading a coalition, there was no guarantee he was going to be the PM after the election results were announced. Changes in the principle executive are posted. LL has proposed changing this, which is within their rights to do, but as it is now, ITNR is correct here. 331dot (talk) 22:00, 16 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • We posted his coalition won most votes. Back then, it was likely he would become the next PM. To merit another post, it would have to be someone else becoming the PM. My opinion. --Tone 14:07, 17 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

December 12

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December 12, 2021 (2021-12-12) (Sunday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Health and environment

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sports

(Posted) Grey Cup

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Article: 108th Grey Cup (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In the 108th Grey Cup, the Winnipeg Blue Bombers defeat the Hamilton Tiger-Cats in overtime, 33-25. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In Canadian football, the Winnipeg Blue Bombers defeat the Hamilton Tiger-Cats in overtime to win the Grey Cup
News source(s): CTV, TSN, CBC,
Credits:

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: ITN/R sports event happened. Article is good quality and is nearly ready for ITN. NorthernFalcon (talk) 05:11, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Tradition! – Sca (talk) 15:22, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Roland Hemond

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Article: Roland Hemond (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Athletic, MLB.com
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 – Muboshgu (talk) 23:54, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) MLS Cup 2021

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WP:SNOW close. Highly unlikely to generate consensus to post. --Jayron32 17:37, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: MLS Cup 2021 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In Major League Soccer, New York City FC defeat Portland Timbers to win their first MLS Cup. (Post)
News source(s): [30] [31]
Credits:
 JanderVK (talk)
Gosh, I thought MLS stood for Multiple Listing Service. – Sca (talk) 00:00, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
That's because Americans decided to call it major, like how they call the winner of most of their sports a "world champion". Their choice of nonsense naming sytem doesn't make this an important league. Joseph2302 (talk) 00:31, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
To be fair even if the US had the best team in the world you would never let them play in your major leagues cause they're all in the British or B+1 time zone but if a handegg, Yank netball, Yankee cricket or ice hockey player is better than like one guy in one of our 4 major leagues they almost invariably become a player thus making the 4 leagues noticeably stronger than any other league of that sport in the world. So the winners are world champions even though London can never play (unless an eccentric billionaire manages to move one of the shit teams there, like the Pittsburgh Pirates) Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 01:09, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
What does CONCACAF stand for? Cón caffeíne but with a stutter? If New York City Football Club beats the 2022 CONCACAF Champions League (which has Liga MX® clubs) then a soccer team from the NY area would enter the Club World Cup for the first time! (like the world cup but not for countries) They play in Yankee Stadium! Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 00:47, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The final was attended by just 25,000 spectators, this isn't a major league like the Premier League, Spanish La Liga or German Bundesliga. Any other football league with those comparatively low attendences wouldn't even be considered here. Joseph2302 (talk) 00:54, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Yes we know soccer is not a big 4 sport here, you don't have to rub it in. Liga MX almost always wins the continent and is usually defeated by the CONMEBOL team if they meet who then usually lose to UEFA. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 01:16, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Yes we know soccer is not a big 4 sport here, you don't have to rub it in. Wasn't trying to, but your other point that Liga MX is much better highlights my point: we wouldn't post that league, and so we shouldn't post the less important US league. Joseph2302 (talk) 09:07, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Just FYI, the final's low attendance is due to the venue's constraints. The 2018 and 2019 finals both got upwards of 69,000 spectators (both sellouts of American football venues). SounderBruce 07:14, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted RD) RD/Blurb: Vicente Fernández

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Article: Vicente Fernández (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  Mexican singer-songwriter Vicente Fernández (pictured) dies at 81. (Post)
News source(s): NBC News CNN
Credits:

Article needs updating
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Unquestionable notability. I'm working on his article, but I'm already making the nomination in case it can serve as a call for other users to participate, there is a lot of work to do. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 15:47, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support Blurb I added a potential blurb, as Fernandez was one of Mexico's (as well as the Latin-American world's) most notable and beloved musicians, sold over 50 million records, and even has a Hollywood Walk of Fame star. This is similar to how Diego Maradona was one of the world's most famous soccer players. The article is well sourced and is in great shape, though is still being cleaned up a bit to add a bit more unanimity for posting. DrewieStewie (talk) 13:33, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) 2021 Formula One season, Max Verstappen

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Article: 2021 Formula One World Championship (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In Formula One, Max Verstappen (pictured) wins the 2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix, the final race of the 2021 Formula One World Championship and becomes the first ever Dutch World Champion. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In Formula One, Max Verstappen (pictured) wins the 2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix, the final race of the 2021 Formula One season and becomes the first ever Dutch World Champion.
Alternative blurb II: ​ In motorsport, Max Verstappen (pictured) wins the Formula One World Championship, while Mercedes wins the constructor's title.
Alternative blurb III: ​ In motorsport, Max Verstappen (pictured) provisionally wins the Formula One World Championship, while Mercedes wins the constructor's title.
Alternative blurb IV: ​ In motorsport, Max Verstappen (pictured) controversially wins the Formula One World Championship, while Mercedes wins the constructor's title.
News source(s): The Guardian, BBC Sport
Credits:

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

 Mjroots (talk) 14:40, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Just to be clear, the article quality is not fine. There is an orange tag in the "Closing rounds" section, and the same section does not yet include a write-up of the Grand Prix that took place today.  — Amakuru (talk) 15:33, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait. Appeal by Mercedes appears to be likely given that there are claims by prominent members of F1 community that FIA failed to adjudicate the race fairly. So, let's wait until RSs say that there won't be an appeal, and if there is one, let's amend the blurb to include the contested nature of the the victory. Melmann 15:58, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Appeal appears to have been lodged. Melmann 16:02, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Support And know we know the result. Yes, there may yet be a further appeal but that's a longer process and at some point we have to report on things as they are now. Gopchunk (talk) 20:13, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • As I understand it now in real time, there's actual discussions between the race organizers, MErcades, and Red Bull right now as I type this, so we should reasonably expect a final-ish decision today. There could still be a more formal appeal that will take time, but this current actions should be resolved before posting. --Masem (t) 17:54, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, it's not as if it's like the US election! Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 18:20, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Ok. That's "no" then. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:25, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) 2021 New Caledonian independence referendum

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Article: 2021 New Caledonian independence referendum (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In the final independence referendum, New Caledonia overwhelmingly rejects independence from France amid a boycott from independence parties. (Post)
News source(s): Reuters, France24, The Guardian, Aljazeera, AP, DW
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: RS have declared that New Caledonia rejected independence, article is sourced although we're still waiting for the final vote count. Macron has celebrated the results as this was the final independence vote. Independence parties boycotted the vote as they did not agree with the date of the election. BastianMAT (talk) 14:31, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Don't see any reason for this to not go through as well then, Support. Gotitbro (talk) 23:16, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Significance is that it is the final referendum permitted under the accords; according to France and the loyalists, there will be no more, and according to those who support independence they will engage with the planned post-referendum process where the status of New Caledonia within France is decided. BilledMammal (talk) 22:00, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • According to the ABC, it is relevant to Australia (the previous title of that article stated "Here is why Australians should care"). I have yet to find sources stating so explicitly for other countries, but it would be reasonable to assume that it is relevant to all of France, as well as to the rest of the regional nations. BilledMammal (talk) 00:15, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

December 11

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(Closed) UFC 269

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Withdrawn. Stephen 11:58, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Template:ITN candidate

  • Oppose don't see this as important enough for ITN. Also, article lacks any prose about the event itself- it has only a results table. And a less important issue- the article also fails to convert imperial measures to their metric equivalents (which is a MOS violation). Joseph2302 (talk) 00:33, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    I've forwarded these concerns to the talk page, and am 50% confident they'll be dealt with swiftly! InedibleHulk (talk) 06:51, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Unfortunately there's not been any improvements yet (apart from me adding conversions for the weights of people, which was the least important of my complaints). Joseph2302 (talk) 15:33, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Better than nothing getting done, thank you. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:27, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose as with boxing, the lack of a structure to any type of championship makes it hard to see any fight as being ITN-worthy. --Masem (t) 00:39, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    That just makes them hard to place at ITN/R, I thought. The unexpected result here sets it apart from the ones which aren't nommed. But I guess appreciating the difference is hard if you haven't been watching the last seven years of ordinary Nunes fights (which is fine). InedibleHulk (talk) 01:11, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - There needs to be some clarity, perhaps on the ITN talk page, about what sort of MMA fights - if any - are considered notable enough for ITN. Otherwise we fall into the same problem we encounter with boxing, with all of the major fights essentially being considered promotional exercises.--WaltCip-(talk) 15:28, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    I don't think we need MMA-specific criteria, we just must decide whether it's newsworthy. As with all sports, the stakes matter, and this women's championship is the most prestigious in MMA. As in political turnover, length of reign matters, and Nunes had ruled since July 2016. She's a transformative figure and still technically top of her field, pound-for-pound, for Thatcher-Mandela points. The new champ was a dark horse, so it has shock and awe the main event (and the rest of the card) hasn't, along with relatively major gambling impacts. The sudden emphatic nature of the comeback and finish beats a five-round decision for oomph, same as violence helps death stories seem bigger. These are the boxes to check. But yes, unfortunately, so is good prose. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:20, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Submitted For Disapproval Even UFC 232, where the great lioness devoured the fearsome cyborg to claim her weight in golden feathers and attain sapphic sports immortality, doesn't tell a story. Just another dry stat table. What chance does a damned vixen have to "break the wheel" before too long? Fifty-fifty! And that's not good enough. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:25, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Abot

(Posted) RD: Anne Rice

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Template:ITN candidate

  • Comment: I've added citations for several of the new cn tags, so there's currently 16 left. 9 of them are for comics adaptations of her work, so I've reached out to WP:COMICS for advice and help with those. On the other 7, at least one I wonder if we can just outright remove the tagged information itself, because the article already can verify the year of the death of her young daughter in 1972 but the unsourced information is the precise date and location. ~Cheers, TenTonParasol 21:38, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
That should be all of the cn tags. ~Cheers, TenTonParasol 06:57, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Mel Lastman

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Template:ITN candidate

(Posted) RD: Manuel Santana

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Template:ITN candidate

(Posted) Tornado outbreak of December 10–11, 2021

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Template:ITN candidate

  • source? The blurbs you propose are wrong. As stated above, 50 people have not yet been confirmed dead and I don't know how much six fatalities is blurb-worthy in a region/country usually affected by tornadoes. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 11:55, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. About 100 people have likely been killed. This is one of the largest tornado outbreaks ever, and that also in the meteorological winter which makes it even more unusual. Count Iblis (talk) 12:54, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait for confirmation of deaths. The Guardian ref repeatedly says feared dead. Though the death toll is likely to be in the high double figures, we shouldn't post until we know the death toll is high. Jim Michael (talk) 13:02, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait – Per Jim Michael. RS estimates of (expected) fatalities range from 50 to 100, and the AP doesn't seem to have filed a separate story yet. The Lexington, Ky., paper paraphrases governor saying "at least 50 people and possibly as many as 70 to 100" died. – Sca (talk) 13:37, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Conditional Support Major weather related disaster with substantial loss of life. Multiple RS sources are reporting scores of fatalities. That's enough. An exact death count is not needed, and we can always update the blurb as more information becomes available. Article quality is adequate, and it's being updated. Needs some additional sourcing in the meteorological section. But should be good to go then. -Ad Orientem (talk) 14:34, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Regardless of the above, the "Meteorological analysis" section is unsourced. --Masem (t) 14:40, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
That's actually a good point. I missed that. -Ad Orientem (talk) 14:53, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment – The wide range of RS fatality estimates is precisely why we should wait in this instance. It seems that people – even Ky. Gov. Andy Beshear – are just making guesstimates. Too indefinite for ITN at this pt., IMO, but definitely blurbworthy eventually. – Sca (talk) 15:03, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
PS: – The existing article seems too general and diffuse. A rewrite leading with the Kentucky fatalities (the main news) would be best. – Sca (talk) 15:08, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

December 10

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(Posted) RD: Leland Wilkinson

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Template:ITN candidate

Template:Reply Added a few more cites. Not sure there's a source for his latest wife. --Engineerchange (talk) 14:42, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the new footnotes, Engineerchange. I wonder if this is RS. --PFHLai (talk) 00:44, 15 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Template:Reply I missed that one. From Googling about DNAinfo, it appears to be a RS. Added, thanks! --Engineerchange (talk) 03:54, 15 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
You're welcome! --PFHLai (talk) 12:23, 15 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Günther Rühle

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Template:ITN candidate

RD: Michael Nesmith

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(Posted) World Chess Championship 2021

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Template:ITN candidate

  • Well for starters, would like them all to have sources (at least three of the match summaries have no/inadequate sources). And the technical play-by-play thing of every move is confusing to a casual reader, and more of that should be explained in English (rather than chess notation). Joseph2302 (talk) 21:45, 10 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • It may improve soon but slow sourced prose adding is probably because 1. a good summary can only be written by a skilled human but the 32 pieces of wood and 64 squares have internal proximity sensors that post the moves to free websites immediately. 2. The alienese takes far less time and autisticness to learn than say Python (easy my ass) or even high school math so there's not a lot of chess fans who don't understand it. Unless you can practically play blindfolded you're supposed to keep track of the game on a physical chess set or click the forward button or what move you want on a website but otherwise it's easy. There are many openings but you don't need to know their names to read the alienese. I'll translate the header of the long game® and teach alienese below. It's 136 moves from each side which is the longest in the 136-year history of the championship and much longer than average.
    Queen's Pawn Game (the pawn in front of the queen goes first, but not 1 step, as that is rare and weird), Symmetrical Variation (queen's pawn games aren't symmetrical as often when the players are strong), Pseudo-Catalan (like the opening named after Catalonia (Barcelona's area) but not a proper Catalan Opening) (ECO D02 (this game is classified as chapter 02 (out of 100) of book D of the definitive Encyclopedia of Chess Openings: five physical books of alienese that world champions try to memorize))
    1. d4 (white pawn to d4, a1 is white's lower left square and black's upper right and the squares just go up from there, both queens start on the d-file) Nf6 (kNight to f6, cause capital K means king) 2. Nf3 d5 (the position now looks symmetrical) 3. g3 e6 (and Catalany, but no longer symmetrical) 4. Bg2 Be7 (bishop moves, the capital letters should be easy to figure out) 5. 0-0 (white castles) 0-0 (black castles) 6. b3 c5 7. dxc5 (x in a word of alienese means that whatever was before the x "ate" whatever was on the square after the x) Bxc5 8. c4 dxc4 9. Qc2 Qe7 10. Nbd2 (the knight that went to d2 came from the b-file, the extra letter, number or square disambiguates) Nc6 11. Nxc4 b5 12. Nce5 Nb4 13. Qb2 Bb7 14. a3 Nc6 15. Nd3 Bb6 16. Bg5 Rfd8 17. Bxf6 gxf6 18. Rac1 Nd4 19. Nxd4 Bxd4 20. Qa2 Bxg2 21. Kxg2 Qb7+ (+ means check) 22. Kg1 Qe4 23. Qc2 a5 24. Rfd1 Kg7 25. Rd2 Rac8 26. Qxc8 Rxc8 27. Rxc8 Qd5 28. b4 a4 29. e3 Be5 30. h4 h5 31. Kh2 Bb2 32. Rc5 Qd6 33. Rd1 Bxa3 34. Rxb5 Qd7 35. Rc5 e5 36. Rc2 Qd5 37. Rdd2 Qb3 38. Ra2 e4 39. Nc5 Qxb4 40. Nxe4 Qb3 41. Rac2 Bf8 42. Nc5 Qb5 43. Nd3 a3 44. Nf4 Qa5 45. Ra2 Bb4 46. Rd3 Kh6 47. Rd1 Qa4 48. Rda1 Bd6 49. Kg1 Qb3 50. Ne2 Qd3 51. Nd4 Kh7 52. Kh2 Qe4 53. Rxa3 Qxh4+ 54. Kg1 Qe4 55. Ra4 Be5 56. Ne2 Qc2 57. R1a2 Qb3 58. Kg2 Qd5+ 59. f3 Qd1 60. f4 Bc7 61. Kf2 Bb6 62. Ra1 Qb3 63. Re4 Kg7 64. Re8 f5 65. Raa8 Qb4 66. Rac8 Ba5 67. Rc1 Bb6 68. Re5 Qb3 69. Re8 Qd5 70. Rcc8 Qh1 71. Rc1 Qd5 72. Rb1 Ba7 73. Re7 Bc5 74. Re5 Qd3 75. Rb7 Qc2 76. Rb5 Ba7 77. Ra5 Bb6 78. Rab5 Ba7 79. Rxf5 Qd3 80. Rxf7+ Kxf7 81. Rb7+ Kg6 82. Rxa7 Qd5 83. Ra6+ Kh7 84. Ra1 Kg6 85. Nd4 Qb7 86. Ra2 Qh1 87. Ra6+ Kf7 88. Nf3 Qb1 89. Rd6 Kg7 90. Rd5 Qa2+ 91. Rd2 Qb1 92. Re2 Qb6 93. Rc2 Qb1 94. Nd4 Qh1 95. Rc7+ Kf6 96. Rc6+ Kf7 97. Nf3 Qb1 98. Ng5+ Kg7 99. Ne6+ Kf7 100. Nd4 Qh1 101. Rc7+ Kf6 102. Nf3 Qb1 103. Rd7 Qb2+ 104. Rd2 Qb1 105. Ng1 Qb4 106. Rd1 Qb3 107. Rd6+ Kg7 108. Rd4 Qb2+ 109. Ne2 Qb1 110. e4 Qh1 111. Rd7+ Kg8 112. Rd4 Qh2+ 113. Ke3 h4 114. gxh4 Qh3+ 115. Kd2 Qxh4 116. Rd3 Kf8 117. Rf3 Qd8+ 118. Ke3 Qa5 119. Kf2 Qa7+ 120. Re3 Qd7 121. Ng3 Qd2+ 122. Kf3 Qd1+ 123. Re2 Qb3+ 124. Kg2 Qb7 125. Rd2 Qb3 126. Rd5 Ke7 127. Re5+ Kf7 128. Rf5+ Ke8 129. e5 Qa2+ 130. Kh3 (diagram) Qe6 131. Kh4 Qh6+ 132. Nh5 Qh7 133. e6 Qg6 134. Rf7 Kd8 135. f5 Qg1 136. Ng7 1–0 (white won this giving Carlsen 1 point of the 7 and a half he got by the end of the championship, there is no checkmate symbol (# or ++) on the Ng7 (as is expected for this level) which tells you that black almost certainly resigned when he thought he had no chance to even draw for a half-point anymore) And !!, !, !?, ?!, ? and ?? give the right idea, even if you don't know that say ?! means dubious but not quite a blunder, capitals after a pawn moving to the end obviously mean promotion and ep or e.p. mean en passant. That's pretty much it. Sometimes ++ means double check but I usually just see a single + no matter how many things are checking at once. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 07:43, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Oded Muhammad Danial

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December 9

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(Posted) RD: Speedy Duncan

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(Posted) RD: Robert Jervis

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RD: Al Unser (Sr.)

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Template:ITN candidate

  • Oppose It's a shame that the article about such a legend in the sport is in so piss-poor of a shape. It's a disgrace, really. It's not like he's that obscure. Book-length biographies exist about him and his family. I'm not a motorsports fan in any way, but even I know about Al Unser. --Jayron32 17:20, 10 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Yup. A household name in his day, though mainly in the U.S. From a famous racing family. (And I'm not a motorsports fan, either.)
    – Sca (talk) 19:43, 10 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • This wikibio has too many footnote-free paragraphs. Please add more refs. --PFHLai (talk) 17:37, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Lina Wertmüller

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(Posted) The Game Awards 2021

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Template:ITN candidate

PS: – One must question Deadline Hollywood's status as a reliable source – in the ITN sense of the term. – Sca (talk) 19:56, 10 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Video games are not niche, though I will agree I want to make sure these awards are reasonably covered in major sources just as some of the more niches sporting events like gaelic football. And to question the reliability of a source normally considered reliable to challenge a ITN nom is really not appropriate. RS/N is that way. --Masem (t) 20:11, 10 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Nothing could be more niche than video games.
Considered by whom? Never saw it cited on ITN before.– Sca (talk) 20:40, 10 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
So niche that it's a bigger industry than global movies and US sports combined. Pawnkingthree (talk) 21:16, 10 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Template:Applause The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 22:24, 10 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Wah-wah! InedibleHulk (talk) 23:19, 10 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Video games have zero effect on the world at large, except for those few who make money from them. – Sca (talk) 23:28, 10 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Who do you suppose gives them all that money? I'll bet banks. Banks are suckers. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:43, 10 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Neither do most sports, films, television, and music, but we still post them. --Masem (t) 00:32, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Template:Xt Of course! Zero effect!! The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 10:01, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
This is a certified sheesh classic. Regards, Jeromi Mikhael 09:13, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. The argument that video games are niche is very old at this point. Not only have they eclipsed the film industry, but they haven't suffered the economic losses that the film industry has from the pandemic. The industry's growth is accelerating, and is and will be a central part of global popular culture. There is a lot of crossover from Hollywood into video games now in response to this growth. Even at face value, the video game industry is certainly less niche than many sports we post. It is also the case that the Game Awards is covered widely in news outlets. 2600:1700:5890:69F0:CC2F:F2F5:4061:1922 (talk) 02:15, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support exactly what Template:U said. ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 02:20, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Spoken as a non-player, it seems somewhat bizarre to claim that video games are a niche industry. Prominent awards show, covered in many RS. Wizardoftheyear (talk) 02:23, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strongest possible oppose Are you for real? An ad show with a small award ceremony strapped on on top is now getting its own ad on the main page of the Wikipedia? Then again, you've posted that porn gif just a few weeks ago so this could really do as a fine final nail in the coffin of that website that used to be good, but that had turned into a fucking parody of itself since the beggining of the open stage of the cultural war in America. By all means, post it, I expect nothing else 5.44.170.26 (talk) 06:44, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose A promotional event dominated by product announcements (i.e. adverts) and with lots of categories so that everyone gets a prize. The voting is done on platforms like Facebook and Twitter and so is not reliable. Andrew🐉(talk) 09:55, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • For the main awards, it has the same number of categories as the Academy Awards (a handful more if you count esports). 90% of the voting is done by a jury of over 100 media outlets worldwide. – Rhain ☔ 13:28, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support a massive worldwide industry event, covered in plenty of high quality reliable sources and a decent article to boot. Oh the irony of those opposing who continually complain about the staleness of ITN! The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 10:04, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Support The list of RS covering the event is extensive. Guidelines are hit, this should be posted. To address some concerns raised: The event has repeatedly hit higher viewership than the Oscars, the niche/"small awards show" argument is one that just doesn't make sense - this event is arguably far more notable than some of the awards that are ITN/R. As for how voting works, it's detailed in The Game Awards: "Winners are determined by a blended vote between the voting jury (90%) and public fan voting (10%) via social media." Canadianerk (talk) 13:28, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted. I see a consensus to post here. I altered the blurb slightly as I think we don't generally have the year in such postings. 331dot (talk) 18:15, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting support The opposes here absolutely reek of WP:IDONTLIKEIT. Coverage in WaPo, USATODAY, and NYT isn't good enough for you? Just admit that you don't like video games instead of pretending that there's some real difference between this and other awards shows. Mlb96 (talk) 20:17, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • This nomination was a gamechanger. I think it's the first time a gaming news was posted (besides the GTA5 breaking media sales records). 2A02:2F0E:DB02:5E00:4114:4253:8AB6:37CC (talk) 17:45, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting comment – I call for three minutes of Wikiwide silence. – Sca (talk) 15:32, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Chiapas truck crash

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Template:Ec

(Posted) RD: Julie Brougham

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(Posted) RD: Demaryius Thomas

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December 8

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RD: Blackjack Lanza

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(Closed) Sokoto bus massacre

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Template:Atop Template:ITN candidate

We'd certainly quickly blurb a mass shooting in the US whose death toll were that high. Jim Michael (talk) 14:36, 10 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
It is notable enough for its own article, the problem is that it hasn't been created. Jim Michael (talk) 14:30, 10 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Abot

(Posted) RD: Greg Tate

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Yes, I agree. Had planned to continue working on the entry and waiting for an official date of death before nominating. Will do my best. Innisfree987 (talk) 21:12, 8 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
In better shape now. Innisfree987 (talk) 21:04, 9 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD/Blurb: Bipin Rawat

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(Posted) New Chancellor of Germany

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  • Germany has a parliamentary system and the result of the chancellor election was open until this day. "except when that change was already posted as part of a general election" does not apply here. LenaAvrelia (talk) 10:41, 8 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • That Merkel officially ceases to be chancellor is in the news. However much it is foreseen. It's like saying that neither is the re-election of certain politicians like Putin or Ortega. And yes, this should be included in the blurb. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 17:48, 8 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

December 7

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(Posted) RD: Jack Lemley

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(Posted) RD: Suresh Jadhav (biotechnology executive)

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RD: Farida Mammadova

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(Posted) RD: Carol Jenkins Barnett

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(Posted) Burundi prison fire

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December 6

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(Posted) RD: Olha Ilkiv

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(Posted) RD: Masayuki Uemura

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(Posted) RD: Ebrahim Ismail Ebrahim

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(Posted) RD: Lindiwe Mabuza

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(Posted) RD: Marjorie Tallchief

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  • Oppose, per the sourced article "Some 1,300 people died by assisted suicide in Switzerland in 2020 using the services of the country’s two largest assisted suicide organisations, Exit (no connection to Exit International) and Dignitas." This is not the first such means of assisted suicide in Switzerland; it may have been more newsworthy if this made Switzerland the first country to approve of assisted suicide. --Masem (t) 01:27, 7 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support This has made the news, although could be more suitable for DYK instead. 99.247.176.90 (talk) 02:29, 7 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose -- this is interesting, but I fail to see how this is worthy of ITN at all. Switzerland already has legal euthanasia. -- RockstoneSend me a message! 04:19, 7 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose both on quality (Template:Tq) and importance. User:力 (powera, π, ν) 04:27, 7 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Minor story. The blurb is misleading, as it implies official approval for the device; in reality, as quoted in the cited Swissinfo article, the inventor merely told a journalist that he asked unnamed lawyers about the legality of the device and that he is "very pleased with the result", whatever that means. Sandstein 11:16, 7 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Aside from what has been stated, I would wonder if we should post information about suicide devices on the Main Page, even if legal in the country involved. Assisted suicide isn't legal in many places. 331dot (talk) 13:24, 7 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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(Posted) New Chancellor of Austria

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(Posted) RD: Medina Spirit

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(Posted) RD: Marvin Morgan

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(Posted) RD: Fred Hiatt

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(Closed) Aung San Suu Kyi sentenced to four years in prison

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Can do with a better blurb though, too lengthy and incoherent for the average reader. Gotitbro (talk) 20:30, 6 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Asleep at the switch. – Sca (talk) 13:44, 7 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Unfortunately, the article has far too many CN tags to be posted on the main page. If someone wanted this posted on the main page, they would work on fixing that problem. --Jayron32 19:12, 7 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Proseline issues remain. There's a graph about her being moved, one about the trial beginning, and another about a delay in the trial when she got sick. Collectively, this reads very poorly. Our goal here is to encourage quality updates by featuring them; this is not quality. GreatCaesarsGhost 12:09, 8 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Alas, getting stale. – Sca (talk) 13:10, 9 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
PS: Would someone care to define proseline? It's not in Oxford, Webster, Wiktionary or even Urban Dictionary. I suggest we not gabble in jargon. Thanks. – Sca (talk) 16:00, 9 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I think you would benefit more from the definition of disruptive editing, with four off-topic comments in this nom alone. GreatCaesarsGhost 19:19, 9 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Template:Ping See WP:PROSELINE. If you had already fixed this, this would have already been posted. You should spend more time fixing articles and less time complaining that nothing you want is being done. --Jayron32 19:52, 9 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Jargon. This user prefers English. – Sca (talk) 19:57, 9 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Use English to fix the problems with the article if you want it posted. --Jayron32 20:02, 9 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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(Posted) RD: John Miles (musician)

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December 5

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(Posted) RD: M. Sarada Menon

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(Posted) 2021 Nagaland killings

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RD: Jacques Tits

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(Posted) RD: Christine Haidegger‎

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(Posted) RD: Bob Dole

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Think it could work as a blurb, Bob Dole was a massive figure in American politics for over two decades. HadesTTW (he/him • talk) 17:18, 5 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Template:Ping However all obits cite his long senate career that lasted for decades. If he was a one term senator then sure a short senate section makes sense, but Dole was a Senate leader and longtime GOP Senator. It’s like having an influential actor with a short career section. His senate career section lacks information of his long tenure in the senate. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 15:49, 6 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • You are conflating longevity with productivity, without justification, and your conclusions are therefore incorrect. His senate career section does specify the length of time for which he served in the senate. Show me a source that says that he was known for getting signature legislation passed or the like, and you will have a case for saying there is something missing. BD2412 T 16:51, 6 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Peter Cundall

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Not that it matters, but this is the first time I've heard a nominee described as a "gardening personality." Cheers. – Sca (talk) 13:42, 5 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Cundall can also be described as a bloody commie gardener, but that violates NPOV.KittenKlub (talk) 14:15, 5 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
In the UK there's been Percy Thrower, Alan Titchmarsh, Monty Don... c'mon, there must be some US gardening personalities. Pawnkingthree (talk) 22:56, 5 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

December 4

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Nguyễn Thúc Thùy Tiên

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RD: Stonewall Jackson

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(Posted) 2021 Gambian presidential election

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RD: Vinod Dua

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RD: Claude Humphrey

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(Posted) RD: Eileen Ash

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(Posted) 2021 Semeru eruption

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Plenty of sources in English, including NYT, not listed above due to paywall. - Sca (talk) 17:00, 5 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Basically disagree. Current blurb says "injuring more than a hundred people." Most RS articles linked above don't support such a large number. Also, RS's put toll at 13-14, which one must acknowledge isn't really a huge number as natural disasters go. – Sca (talk) 17:19, 5 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
PS: FWIW, this event isn't currently listed in the French, Dutch, German, Swedish or Russian versions of ITN. – Sca (talk) 17:22, 5 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
FWIW, it's Sunday afternoon in Europe.--65.94.214.139 (talk) 19:50, 5 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thanks for the suggestion, Jeromi Mikhael. Things look too tiny once the image is squished onto the ITN template. It would be better to put it in the article than on MainPage. --PFHLai (talk) 16:10, 5 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The current blurb pic. of dormant Mt. Semeru on a blue-sky day, though fairly recent, doesn't do much to illustrate this news event, IMO. – Sca (talk) 17:45, 5 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
If you have a better pic, please proposed it here at ITN/C. If appropriate, a later screenshot from the same YouTube videoclip showing the damages may be useful. --PFHLai (talk) 20:33, 5 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Template:U, how about this? Regards, Jeromi Mikhael 23:54, 5 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
 
Thanks, Jeromi Mikhael. That is pretty much what I had in mind. I have prepared a cropped and brightened version (shown on the right), hoping that viewers can see the damages caused by the eruption. Does this work? Need a caption? --PFHLai (talk) 11:38, 6 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Template:Re Thanks for the edit m8, I think you just need to add (damage pictured) or something like that to the blurb. Regards, Jeromi Mikhael 12:15, 6 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The pic is now posted. --PFHLai (talk) 18:48, 6 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment – Most RS reports put the number of injured at 56 (Reuters, BBC, AlJazeera, DW) or 57 (AP, LAT), substantially less than the "more than 100" in the current blurb. Suggest we replace "more than 100" with "more than 50," which would be accurate based on what's been reported so far.
    – Sca (talk) 19:43, 5 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

December 3

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RD: Fortune FitzRoy, Duchess of Grafton

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Template:ITN candidate Support Article looks good enough to be on RD, well done. Fakescientist8000 (talk) 14:39, 10 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) 2021 Pakistan Sialkot lynching

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  • Comment Not sure at this stage whether this deserves listing, but I am sure the Nominator's comment above are inflammatory and unhelpful. I would prefer to see wording more like "An example of what some see as incidents of violence over alleged blasphemy in Pakistan." HiLo48 (talk) 08:20, 8 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Template:S Article is unusually well-referenced and composed. The very large number of people arrested for this, and the quick reactions from the international community, indicate that this is not a garden variety criminal proceeding. That this is directly related to Islamism and blasphemy is well-supported in sources. Altblurb added to conform to our general format.130.233.213.55 (talk) 08:38, 8 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Has this already been determined by a court of law to be a murder or lynching? 331dot (talk) 09:00, 8 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The Pakistani PM calls it plainly "the Sialkot lynching". I'm unsure if Pakistan has a statutory definition of lynching (like the US), but it's the most concise and descriptive term available. Alternative could be "kills" but sources on all sides have gone beyond that.130.233.213.55 (talk) 09:25, 8 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The PM is entitled to his opinion, but that is not a judgment by a court. (even just as a murder). 331dot (talk) 11:19, 8 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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(Posted) RD: Françoise Delord

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I added a few details with citations. I'm somewhat limited due to most sources being in French. TJMSmith (talk) 23:51, 5 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Charlotte Mailliard Shultz

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RD: Antony Sher

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Laos-China Railway

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December 2

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RD: Darlene Hard

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  • Comment: IMO, a 300-word start-class article cannot provide good enough coverage for a Hall-of-Fame career with 16 Grand Slam titles and quite a few medals and trophies won while the subject represented her country in international tournaments. Quite some elaboration and expansion are sorely needed. BTW, the tables need refs. --PFHLai (talk) 02:08, 7 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Poedjono Pranyoto

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(Closed) MLB lockout begins

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  • Comment: Article could use some additional information about what the practical impact of a lockout is ("labor stoppage" is mentioned but not much additional detail). I know some stuff could be CRYSTALBALL but how does this affect the league now, especially since it's the off season? SpencerT•C 07:04, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment The strike 26 years ago isn't called a lockout on WP, and the lockout 31 years ago is called the seventh work stoppage. InedibleHulk (talk) 07:16, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
A strike is when the bosses want the workers to go inside but the workers refuse, a lockout is when the workers want the workers to go inside but the bosses refuse or the bosses want the bosses to go inside but the workers refuse. Though there are more possibilities: The bosses want the bosses to go outside and the workers refuse or the workers want the workers to go outside and the bosses refuse or the bosses want the workers to go outside but they refuse or the workers want the bosses to go outside but they refuse or the workers want the bosses to go inside but they refuse. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 09:15, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Precisely! But is this a strike? WaPo doesn't confirm, WaPo don't deny. In any case, MLB could mean anyone to the average schmuck. A better blurb might explain who's stopping who from working and why. InedibleHulk (talk) 09:24, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
A lockout is when management prevents the workers from working; a strike is when the workers refuse to work. 331dot (talk) 09:38, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose rich men want to get richer and throw their toys out. DYK time. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 09:17, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose In case we reach consensus on its significance, the right time to post would be when it ends. That's what we did with the 2011 NBA lockout, and this is nothing different from it.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 09:30, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for now. This is less significant because the season is over. If this goes into next year and prevents the start of the season, that would be more notable. 331dot (talk) 09:36, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Template:Ec Oppose. Baseball itself is a sport of little interest to most of the world and some baseball players striking in one country, no matter how "rare" it might be, is not news to most of the world or even the country it's happening in. Even the NYT and WaPo don't consider it newsworthy enough to mention it on the top of their websites, you have to scroll down to find it. On non-US newssites like The Guardian, The Times, Der Spiegel etc. you won't even find it mentioned in their sports sections (they do mention Arsenal's Gabriel repelling home invaders with a baseball bat though which thus would actually be more newsworthy since it's been reported in multiple countries). I agree with TRM that this might well be a good fit for DYK but ITN is already oftentimes too US-centric as it is (plus there is already a baseball-related item in there). Regards SoWhy 09:40, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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December 1

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RD: Alvin Lucier

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(Posted) India repeals 2020 farm laws

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There is no opposition to this nomination. 331dot (talk) 20:57, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
FYI, at WP:FPC, it takes five supports (a so-called 'quorum') for promotion to a (potential) TFP. – Sca (talk) 13:35, 3 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

WTA suspends Chinese tournaments

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  • Comment – Fairly widely covered, However, the update consists of one sentence added to each target article. In the best of all possible worlds, a separate article on the WTA decision and its background would be advisable. But that seems rather unlikely. – Sca (talk) 23:20, 1 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose on quality grounds per Sca's comments and the fact that I had to add a Template:Tl tag because of all the unsourced paragraphs in the Career section. Undecided on significance. – Muboshgu (talk) 23:23, 1 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Question what is the actual impact of this? There's been no WTA tournaments in China or Hong Kong for 2 years because of the pandemic, and none confirmed for either country in the 2022 WTA Tour so far as I can see. So this suspension seems to just be symbolic (unless I'm missing something). Joseph2302 (talk) 00:02, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Template:U The BBC radio story I was listening to this morning said this would affect 10 tournaments (including 1 in Hong Kong) in 2022, with a total of $100m prize money. There is (or would have been), for example, a tournament with $14m prize money in Shenzhen. [40] Black Kite (talk) 15:19, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support in principle Looks like acceptably widespread coverage. Pulling out of China is a significant move for the WTA; three of the top tier tournaments (two WTA 1000 tournaments and the WTA Finals) are contracted to be played there. --RaiderAspect (talk) 03:26, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose As Joseph points out, there's no immediate changes in any planned tournaments from this. It would be different if this was a much larger sporting organization, like the Olympics, pulling out of China. --Masem (t) 03:30, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, per RaiderAspect. The comparison to the Olympics is an unreasonable expectation to place, in my opinion. The world has taken notice of this story, with the article noting that the EU has expressed concern, adding further weight to this story. Canadianerk (talk) 05:27, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - the article is a long way from being ready on quality, so discussion about significance is a bit moot at this point. I am leaning oppose on that ground per Joseph and Masem though, on the grounds that we're not a news ticker and the overall concrete impact of this seems limited.  — Amakuru (talk) 10:33, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – Further coverage on Thursday includes Chinese condemnation: [41] [42]. However, the WTA target article still contains only one sentence about this event. Not enough. – Sca (talk) 13:38, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, well the target article in the nomination box is Peng Shuai all right, but the proposed blurb also contains a link to the WTA.
Kinda confusing for an old dog like me. Still oppose nom. – Sca (talk) 15:19, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
PS: Made a couple anti-POV edits. – Sca (talk) 15:26, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Sexual allegations are made every day. Further, they are just that – allegations – until corroborated in some fashion.
– Sca (talk) 13:30, 4 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
That section needs massive trimming. Remember that we're not a newspaper and should not be reporting day to day events at that level of detail, but what's enduring about it. The section's not inappropriate but it is overly detailed for an encyclopedia given that we're talking only allegations and speculation. --Masem (t) 20:18, 3 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
A sports related controversy upto an ITN level blurb would have to be a country wide doping ban or similar. Don't see the significance otherwise. Gotitbro (talk) 07:04, 6 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose How is this still open after a week? Obviously there is no consensus to post and at this point the story has entirely left the news cycle. Regardless, the target article is still missing several sources and only dedicates a single sentence to the story. BSMRD (talk) 05:34, 8 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Grand Jojo

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Support it's been cleaned up and referenced. KittenKlub (talk) 16:54, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  1. ^ https://variety.com/2021/tv/news/betty-white-book-100-remarkable-moments-life-1235131242/
  2. ^ https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32953839/nfl-hall-fame-coach-broadcasting-icon-john-madden-dies-85
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