Talk:Women in music
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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 18 January 2022 and 11 May 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Ellaengland (article contribs).
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 24 January 2022 and 13 May 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): InActually (article contribs). Peer reviewers: Lexipie58.
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Accurate article title vs. advocacy
editWhile I firmly agree that the music industry appears to have been incredibly sexist and women are not proportionately represented in leadership roles, the entire lede smacks of activism, almost to the point of WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS. The title of the article implies that it is documenting women's contributions, rather than what would be ideal or in line with social justice.
However, if this article was titled something along the lines of "Sexism and gender discrimination in the music industry" that content in the lede might be entirely appropriate (if well sourced) - and it could be expanded beyond the gender binary.
I think we either need to rename the article or change it to just documenting women who are or have been in the music industry. Personally, I'd prefer the former, as sexism in any industry is both real and a big deal. Toddst1 (talk) 20:49, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion
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A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
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Things i disagree with
editI think the page has been edited few times by somoeone who just likes few artists (see Bjork, Lady Gaga) and he keeps mentioning them, instead of paying attention to women who impacted the music industry the most, like Madonna, Aretha Franklin, Carole King etc. That's the point of the page.
I also think the list of women mentioned here should be based in their career sales, impact, infulence and success, and not in random yearly earnings. There are more notable pop women than Jennifer Lopez, Shakira, Adele etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Johnny Gnecco (talk • contribs) 21:34, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
I agree, Kate Bush is not listed, She has been mentioned like an influence for many singers Artixi (talk) 02:34, 3 July 2021 (UTC)
Link for Women in Music Pt. III
editOn the front of the page, can please there be a link for this at the "For the..." thing? 68.50.116.194 (talk) 19:53, 9 November 2021 (UTC)
Ironically, Haim is a group of women (who make Music). 68.50.116.194 (talk) 19:54, 9 November 2021 (UTC)
I'm asking this after literally 359 days and it still has not happened. I have not proceeded to do so myself as I do not have the experience. 68.50.116.194 (talk) 02:36, 24 November 2022 (UTC)
Studio Musicians
editReading the sentence about how Esperanza Spalding "showed, to thousands of people, a woman working confidently within the male dominated space of a recording studio." infuriates me. Especially since the music business, in addition to its racial and gender disparity is full of nameless contract workers, being "in the band" but not in the band. Women have always had such jobs and deserve being mentioned in this article. To start the list, lest we forget on whose shoulders we stand today: Session Bassist Carol Kaye. And to add some interesting sources to other "unknowns": [7] and [8] 2003:CA:3F0C:7366:39B9:834D:4897:E6ED (talk) 11:23, 29 July 2022 (UTC)
Women in the business side of the music business
editIn looking through all the sections of this article, I'm not finding a section specifically for women executives in the business side of the music business - executives in labels, publishing, and management. The lack of women in these roles has been brought out in multiple research studies and news articles, and the industry itself has recognized the issue, but little has changed over decades.
In 1982, Cosmopolitan published an article on Women in the business side of the Music Business, which found that, "For the first time, women are pioneering in the zany competitive, and very lucrative pop-record industry...".[1][2]. Only a few women executives were included in the chapter about women in the business side of the music industry in the encyclopedic book, She Bop: The Definitive History of Women in Rock, Pop and Soul, which primarily focused on women musicians and vocalists.
The New York Times reported in an article titled, "For Women in Music, Equality Remains Out of Reach" from March 8th, 2021, “Three years ago, an academic tallied up the performers, producers and songwriters behind hit songs, and found that women’s representation fell on a scale between, roughly, poor and abysmal.[3][4]
Despite the gains in the 1970s and 1980s, the lack of women senior executives in the music business is still an issue today[5], according to an 2021 Annenberg study, "...across 70 major and independent music companies... 13.9% were women".[6] Women fare far better outside the music industry; according to a 2021 report by U.S. News & World Report, “Women held 31.7% of top executive positions across all industries…”[7]
I hope that adding a section on this topic will help raise the visibility of the problem - and hopefully will encourage companies to address it. Let me know your thoughts. Ellis408 (talk) 07:38, 26 June 2023 (UTC) Ellis408 (talk) 07:38, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
References
- ^ ''Cosmopolitan Magazine'', November 1982 ''Women In The Record Industry''
- '^ Billboard Magazine Nov 20, 1982 "Sexual equality has been an issue in the music and entertainment fields as much as in other trades, but now Cosmopolitans on the case. The current edition of the feminine monthly plugs into music biz careers via a long feature on a group of women executives interviewed by the magazine. Among them are Chrysalis Music chief Ann Munday..."[1]
- ^ The New York Times, For Women in Music, Equality Remains Out of Reach March 8th, 2021, “Three years ago, an academic tallied up the performers, producers and songwriters behind hit songs, and found that women’s representation fell on a scale between, roughly, poor and abysmal. The starkness of those findings shook the music industry and led to promises of change, like a pledge by record companies and artists to consider hiring more women… But the latest edition of that study, released on Monday by Stacy L. Smith of the University of Southern California’s Annenberg Inclusion Initiative, has found that the numbers for women in music have mostly not improved, and in some ways even gotten worse.” [2]
- ^ She Bop: The Definitive History of Women in Rock, Pop and Soul (Penguin Books), Page 425, Chapter Talkin' Business, ISBN-13: 978-0140251555 “…Women have built up a strong presence within the publishing business through a combination of assiduous attention to detail and people management.” [3]
- ^ The Business Journal, July 22nd 2021, “Annenberg researchers have repeatedly found women artists capture the spotlight, but they have a smaller role in the broader industry...” [4]
- ^ Annenberg Foundation Inclusion in the Music Business: Gender & Race/Ethnicity Across Executives, Artists & Talent Teams - June 2021 "A total of 70 major and independent companies were examined for their top executives. At the pinnacle of power within these entities..., 86.1% of top executives were men (13.9% women, n=10)" [5]
- ^ U.S. News and World Report, States With the Highest Percentage of Female Top Executives "The share of women holding top executive positions in the U.S. has grown steadily in recent years, according to data from the U.S. Census Bureau. Women held 31.7% of top executive positions across industries in 2021, a near five-point increase since 2015, when it stood at 27.1%."|[6]
Wiki Education assignment: College Composition II
edit This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 16 January 2024 and 11 May 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Talaaburoumi (article contribs).
— Assignment last updated by Lindseybean28 (talk) 21:25, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
Possible Puffery?
editWhile copyediting, I looked through the main body of the article, and I've noticed a lot of flowery/praising language; and I'm not sure if it violates MOS:PUFFERY or not. There seems to be a noticeable amount of praiseful language, some of which directly mentioned in MOS:PUFFERY ("Known for her powerful and soulful voice," "virtuosic guitar playing") on image captions throughout the article. However, because I'm new to Wikipedia, I'm not sure if it actually violates PUFFERY or if I am mistaken. Sphinx Rising (talk) (talk) 23:52, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
- Addendum: I've done more thorough reading/copyediting of the article, and there are a large number of unsourced/unverified claims to praise (which is its own problem in itself, see WP:SUBSTANTIATE); but this might also be evidence of WP:ADVOCACY.
- It has been noted in both the copyedit notice and other discussions (see Accurate_article_title_vs._advocacy) that the tone of the article possibly violates WP:ADVOCACY and WP:RGW and likely needs significant attention. I will improve on the sections that need attention or note it for other editors to fix. Although, because of the scale of the issue, the article may need more attention from experienced editors to fully address the problem. Sphinx Rising (talk) 04:23, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
- Hey, Sparkle & Fade Welcome to Wikipedia! I share your worries. Don't be afraid to correct it, lowering the tone, and other copyedits needed are most welcome. --Apoxyomenus (talk) 03:52, 13 November 2024 (UTC)