Talk:Rock-climbing equipment

Rewrite this

This should be more of summary or list article that gives links to the individual articles on the gear. Currently, there is too much text, and without the attached references from the articles. There is also a lot of other grear that has Wikipedia articles that is not listed here? 78.16.238.146 (talk) 21:43, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

wrong link

Herzog links not to the climber, but to the SA guy — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.144.254.43 (talk) 22:59, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

 Done.thanks. Aszx5000 (talk) 23:13, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

Overhaul of article

I was planning on overhauling this article (tagged since 2008). There is too much text (and most of it unreferenced) when there are already standalone articles on the individual equipment items; we just need to summarize and link to them. In addition, we could broaden this out to cover (and link to) the wider climbing equipment fields (e.g. ice tools). Aszx5000 (talk) 12:44, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

I am going to re-structure these are bullet-points to link to the main articles (rather than whose sub-sections that just repeat content from the main articles). Also taking out some of the photos but will restore images when the structure is done. Aszx5000 (talk) 14:51, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

I have cut out the bulk of the NPOV/unreferenced text and stripped it down to a more readable format. I have checked WP for rock climbing equipment articles to ensure that everything in linked to here. I will now start to build up the referencing in the article, and use the best books in this area, over the next few days. Will re-do lede and add some better images at the end. Aszx5000 (talk) 17:00, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

 Done this now. Aszx5000 (talk) 18:30, 14 September 2023 (UTC)

Proposal to move tricams to the "Passive" Section

Although its true that tricams have an "active" and a passive mode" so do hexes? Like you can put a hex face first into a consticting crack or in a parallell crack you can rely on their toqueing action to keep them in place. they still have no moving parts and are pulled into place by the forces acting on them. Tri cams are (conceptually) the same thing, they are a piece of metal that gets stuck when you pull on it. Tamoraboys (talk) 11:02, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

+1 no problem with that - always felt they were more passive than active (good to clarify that they have an "active" use). thanks. Aszx5000 (talk) 11:24, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Rock-climbing equipment/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Aszx5000 (talk · contribs) 21:24, 25 May 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: 48JCL (talk · contribs) 17:07, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

This is a list, not an article, will QF this. @Aszx5000:, take this to FLC, this is a great list! 48JCL TALK 17:09, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 28 August 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. The only guideline referenced in the discussion has been MOS:HYPHEN, which clearly indicates that the use of the hyphen is valid. (closed by non-admin page mover) Bensci54 (talk) 16:41, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

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Rock-climbing equipment → Rock climbing equipment – I'm not seeing much sourcing supporting the dash and this would maintain consistency with Rock climbing. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 14:35, 28 August 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Bobby Cohn (talk) 15:13, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

It's not a dash. It's per MOS:HYPHEN item 3. Dicklyon (talk) 04:15, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

• Support. Makes sense to me. Aszx5000 (talk) 14:36, 28 August 2024 (UTC)
• Support. It's either a type of equipment used for rock climbing, or a type of climbing equipment used on rocks. Same difference. the hyphen is unnecessary for clarity. – wbm1058 (talk) 19:44, 28 August 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose. Common usage in English is that non-hyphenated phrases become hyphenated when used as an adjective (see MOS:HYPHEN#3 or Compound modifier). In this case, "rock-climbing" is a compound adjective modifying "equipment", and the hyphen is needed to distinguish "equipment used for rock climbing" from "climbing equipment made out of rock". --Ahecht (TALK
  PAGE) 14:36, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

Uh huh. I guess it didn't occur to me that Fred Flintstone might have climbed using rocks – but makes sense since he drove around in cars with stone wheels. Some clueless people probably think that ice climbing equipment is made out of ice, too. But I still think that rock climbing-equipment is climbing equipment for use on rock and ice climbing-equipment is climbing equipment used on ice. Not made of it. Really, just a hyphen isn't really going to help Martians understand this. The text needs to really spell the meaning out in full words. – wbm1058 (talk) 16:32, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia's manual-of-style (doesn't really deserve to be capitalized as a formal "work") is really trying to fight trending usage. See Hyphen#Use in English. The use of the hyphen in English compound nouns and verbs has, in general, been steadily declining. – wbm1058 (talk) 16:45, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

True, there is a trend for writers to not bother to make their writing as clear as English grammar allows, or as clear as most style guides (not just ours) suggest. On this one however, the trend in sources is toward the hyphenation. Dicklyon (talk) 04:02, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose – I don't ever want my climbing equipment to be rock. No need to leave that ambiguous parse, when English grammar offers a simple standard way to convey the intended meaning clearly. Dicklyon (talk) 04:00, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose per Ahecht and Dicklyon. -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:23, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose - albeit for different reasons from other opposes (ambiguous language). "Rock climbing equipment"? Which equipment is the rock climbing? For this reason I don't support moving the article to the proposed title for the purpose of avoiding ambiguity.

𝚈𝚘𝚟𝚝 (𝚝𝚊𝚕𝚔𝚟𝚝) 03:07, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

• Strong oppose. The hyphen here is correct and distinguishes equipment made from rock, a rock that's climbing up equipment, equipment that's climbing up a rock, and rock-climbing equipment (the actual subject of the article). Lewisguile (talk) 16:59, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
• Support, since the main argument against this is that some people will think that such equipment is made of rocks, we really should have more respect for the readers intelligence. Randy Kryn (talk) 14:15, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
  • No, the main argument against it is that it's bad English and encyclopaedias should not perpetuate errors! The comments above are merely humorously pointing out the potential differences in meaning between the hyphenated and non-hyphenated versions, not suggesting that anyone would actually believe that's what the title meant. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:30, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
    • Then the comments tricked me. Ha. Anyway, the best argument here may be that the article Rock climbing is named "rock climbing". If a change was to be made towards your selection it should probably have been made at some point at an RM nomination there, which would also have covered this page. Randy Kryn (talk) 22:41, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
• Support. Hyphens aren't needed in familiar terms used as adjectives, like rock climbing here. ~~ Jessintime (talk) 15:27, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.