Talk:Lukas Jutkiewicz

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Sources

The edit summary has cut-off the sources, so anyway: [1] [2] Respublik (talk) 11:55, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

@Respublik: Your first source, from 2008, states that Mr Jutkiewicz would be eligible to play for Lithuania. That may be so: the regulations required a grandparent born on the territory of the relevant association (assuming that includes "what is now the territory), although there are multiple sources e.g. [3], [4], [5] (some more trivial than others) that mention only England, Ireland and Poland. Your second source quotes him: "My family are originally from Vilnius," he said. "There's Polish heritage there, my grandad was a Polish citizen, but the borders have changed throughout history and it's now Lithuania." I don't see a clear implication of Lithuanian descent in either source, any more than in [6], from 2012, which again quotes him: "My Polish link comes from my grandfather, who sadly passed away last week. He was born in Vilnius, which is now in Lithuania, but at the time it was part of Poland and he was a Polish citizen."

The point is that categories applied to living people are required to be justified by reliably sourced text in the article; see WP:BLP#Categories, lists, and navigation templates, which says: Category names do not carry disclaimers or modifiers, so the case for each content category must be made clear by the article text and its verifiable reliable sources. At the moment, there's no such text in the article. And for what it's worth, WP:EGRS/E (which deals with categorisation by ethnicity, descent etc) says that the ethnicity of grandparents (or other ancestors) is never defining and rarely notable. But if you have a source that clearly does justify the category, please add a sentence to the prose together with that source, as required by WP:BLP. thanks, Struway2 (talk) 15:03, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

"the regulations required a grandparent born on the territory of the relevant association" - that is an incorrectly abridged claim. The regulations require a (restoration of) citizenship first of all, see note provided in the FIFA eligibility rules thus the "would be eligible to play for Lithuania" means, per source, a grandparent or a great-grandparent of that citizenship. This would satisfy the "of ancestry" part. Respublik (talk) 15:41, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Abridged yes, but not wilfully. The grandparent rule was brought in to prevent persons who had acquired a citizenship without having any close connection with the country concerned e.g. Brazilians becoming Qatari or Togolese, promptly being picked to represent that country at football. If Mr Jutkiewicz were able to acquire Lithuanian citizenship (I have no knowledge of the Lithuanian citizenship rules), having a grandfather born in what is now Lithuania would doubtless satisfy the close connection concept from FIFA's point of view. By the way, I see no mention of great-grandparent in the FIFA regulations.

But that's all theoretical: there's still no source that I've seen that clearly implies that his grandfather was either Lithuanian himself or of Lithuanian descent. The quotes from Mr Jutkiewicz imply that the link via his grandfather was to Poland, not Poland or Lithuania. And just to be clear, it doesn't bother me whether he has Lithuanian ancestry or not. But if we're going to categorise him as having it, we need a credible source. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 17:24, 9 January 2024 (UTC)