Talk:Korean Chinese

Lead definition

Thanks for creating this article. For this page, I'm wondering if the lead may need to be redefined. Chaoxianzu are not only an ethnic minority in China, they are also I think the most significant ethnic minority group in South Korea.

Related, I see there are also Chaoxianzu in Korea and Chaoxianzu in Japan pages. I may separately propose that Chaoxianzu in Korea be renamed "Joseonjok" or similar. I'll make a post on that talk page, see there. toobigtokale (talk) 04:27, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

Pinging @Strategicasian and @106.101.130.223 toobigtokale (talk) 04:27, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

While the term ‘Joseonjok’ exists as a Korean Hangul phonetic expression, it is more appropriate to refer to Koreans with Chinese nationality as ‘Chaoxianzu’. This is because, since 2020, these individuals have become central in China’s attempts to incorporate elements of Korean culture, such as Kimchi and Hanbok, as its own. The term ‘Chaoxianzu’ is clearly defined as ‘Joseonjok’ in Korean-Chinese dictionaries. Just as there’s no need to specify Americans residing in Korea as ‘Migookin’ (the Korean term for American), there’s no need to alter the designation of ‘Chaoxianzu’. Understanding the Chinese language and its nuances is essential in this context. To distinctly separate China’s efforts to subordinate South Korea, it is logical and justified to use ‘Chaoxianzu’, highlighting their Chinese nationality. This terminology is also consistently used in official records across multiple sources and academic papers from Korea, America, China, and Japan.[1][2][3][4] Oakwoodic (talk) 13:43, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Chaoxianzu in Korea which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 12:05, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

Uncited sections

This new article contains large sections with either no citations or clearly false citations that do not match the text. As the contributor has been blocked, it is now very unlikely that these sections will ever be fixed. I am moving these sections to the talk page.

Regions of Residence

The migration of Chaoxianzu to the United States began gradually in the 1980s when few Chaoxianzu students obtained relevant residency qualifications and started to move to the country. The migration gained momentum in the late 1990s, significantly increasing in scale to few hundreds. The modes of entry for these Chaoxianzu immigrants varied and included tourism or illegal entry through a third country, entrance for educational purposes, family reunification invitations by already settled immigrants, and a small number obtaining refugee status. Consequently, the population comprises Chaoxianzu who migrated through legal means and those residing in an undocumented status, making it impossible to ascertain the exact demographic statistics. Furthermore, as previously mentioned, the U.S. census racial and ethnic classification standards do not have a separate category for Chaoxianzu (Korean-Chinese), since they are officially part of Chinese in America, making it challenging to estimate their numbers accurately. In this scenario, according to estimates by Chaoxianzu network organizations and media outlets, approximately few thousands individuals are residing in the U.S. Besides, it's speculated that a considerable number of Chaoxianzu are dispersed across major U.S. urban areas, primarily centered around existing Koreatowns. The United States does not maintain an official record of the Chaoxianzu population within its borders. As per the Chinese and Korean governments, the Chaoxianzu populace in America is estimated to be under five thousand individuals, approximately 0.3% of the total Chaoxianzu population of 1.7 million. In accordance with the Immigration and Nationality Act, foreign nationals residing in the United States have their status within the country determined by their nationality. Consequently, individuals of Korean descent holding Chinese (PRC) nationality are identified as Chaoxianzu, while those holding South Korean nationality are identified as Korean. There exists no provision for a separate category for Chaoxianzu individuals who have acquired U.S. citizenship. Such individuals are necessitated to choose between identification as either Korean or Chinese. The term "Korean Chinese American" is not recognized. When Chaoxianzu immigrants (ethnic Koreans from China with Chinese nationality) migrate to the United States and obtain residency or citizenship, they are mandated to establish their nominal identity in line with the prevailing racial categorization standards. The racial categorization system in the U.S., however, does not provide a distinct category for Chaoxianzu, thus placing them in a complex and ambiguous scenario where they must align their identity either as Korean or Chinese based on the extant classification framework. While they were categorized as Chaoxianzu (朝鲜族/조선족) in China, and as overseas Korean Chinese (중국국적동포) in Korea, their new settlement in the U.S. necessitates a reevaluation, compelling them to identify anew as either Korean or Chinese-Americans.

Origins and details about Chaoxianzu

The term "Chaoxianzu (朝鲜族/朝鮮族/조선족)" is a relatively new term coined by the Chinese Communist Party during their ethnic identification efforts. Prior to this, the Kuomintang of China referred to settled Koreans in China as "Hanqiao(韩侨/韓僑/한교)," and the Qing Dynasty referred to them as "Hanmin(韩民/韓民/한민)." The term "Chaoxianzu" first appeared in 1949-1954, specified in the "Regulations of the Reclamation Education Association." In essence, the Chaoxianzu have formed a significant part of China's ethnic tapestry, with deep roots going back to the mid-19th century, and have a history and culture that spans both Korea and China. From 1958 to 1978, the identity of the Chaoxianzu (Koreans in China with Chinese nationality) was forced to be defined as a distinct Chinese group differentiated from the Korean ethnic group of the Korean Peninsula, thereby becoming a Chinese within the larger Han ethnic group. They were pressured to forsake any allegiance to countries other than China, and they couldn't even use the term "homeland" to refer to Korea. This phenomenon was especially pronounced during the early years of the Cultural Revolution (1966-1976), and any expression showcasing ethnic distinctiveness was prohibited. Particularly during the Class-Cleansing Movement (1968-1969), many Chaoxianzu were victimized due to ethnic issues. The ethnic culture also suffered significantly. The Yanbian Daily was renamed in Chinese characters and published under a new name, and higher education institutions like Yanbian University began instructing in Chinese rather than Korean. However, everything changed based on the Cultural Revolution. The outflow of Koreans was unexpectedly hindered by China, a state of the Han majority. When the Cultural Revolution broke out in China, those trying to escape were branded as counter-revolutionaries. When Koreans tried to flee the Cultural Revolution for North Korea, they were accused of being North Korean spies and were imprisoned and sanctioned. Thus, the mass return of Koreans to North Korea ceased. Those who couldn't flee to North Korea remained in China and became today's Chaoxianzu. The Cultural Revolution didn't just physically separate Koreans of the peninsula and the Chaoxianzu of the three provinces in Dongbei. It fundamentally altered the Chaoxianzu's mindset. The revolution destroyed records of their lineage, like family trees, and sought to reshape their minds. Before the revolution, Chaoxianzu knew their origins and would introduce themselves based on their ancestral hometowns. However, after their re-education, they began to identify as "Chaoxianzu, one of the minority ethnicities in China" and believed that "China is our homeland." This reshaping was carried out under the leadership of Jiang Qing, one of the Gang of Four. Mao Yuanxin, dispatched by Jiang Qing, started suppressing the Chaoxianzu, leading to various persecutions, including destroying cultural items and records related to Korea and the Korean independence movement. Records of such persecution weren't allowed, but a Chaoxianzu photographer named Hwang Young-lim risked his life to document this period. His photos were compiled by a South Korean named Ryu Eun-kyu and published in a book titled "The Cultural Revolution in Yanbian - A Decade of Promises" in 2010. Fortunately or unfortunately, after the Cultural Revolution, there hasn't been any challenge by the Chaoxianzu to the Han majority. The situation between North Koreans and Chaoxianzu has drastically changed since the 1990s. Nowadays, many Chaoxianzu migrate to South Korea, but they tend to regard themselves more as Chinese than Korean. In the 2000s, the most popular overseas destination for Chaoxianzu from China was South Korea. As of 2022, there were 700,000 Chaoxianzu residents in South Korea, who began migrating in the late 1980s. After the 1950s, with the decline of the Chinese Communist Party’s Great Leap Forward campaign, the stature of the Korean-Chinese (known as the“Joseonjok”in Korean) community dramatically fell due to internal power struggles, and there were even purges against the demands for Korean-Chinese autonomous regions. As China began its reforms and opened up to the world in the 1970s, Korean-Chinese autonomous regions like Yanji experienced economic neglect. The core principle of these reforms was that “some regions will prosper first, and then lead the rest to prosperity.” The prospering regions mainly referred to the southeastern coastal areas, while areas in the northeast where the Korean-Chinese reside fell into the“rest.” Although adjacent to North Korea, the region couldn't benefit from North Korean economic growth, mainly because North Korea’s economy was in dire straits. Additionally, there were many restrictions on using North Korean ports like Rajin and Chongjin, and Russia’s Far East population wasn't significant enough to fuel industrial development. Nevertheless, the Korean-Chinese are one of the few ethnic minorities in China with a national homeland nearby, making their status relatively high. Particularly, South Korea’s economic affluence allows many Korean-Chinese to achieve a good economic position compared to other minorities, with many migrating to South Korea for economic activities. Those Korean-Chinese who earn money in wealthier South Korea and return to China are considered affluent. However, some Korean-Chinese also work as domestic helpers in large Chinese cities, occasionally appearing on TV. In China, Korean-Chinese learn the Korean language (referred to as “Joseon language") in their curriculum. They also take their college entrance exams, the Gaokao, translated into Korean, receiving additional points for their ethnic background. Yanbian University in Yanji represents the Korean-Chinese community and is the comprehensive university of this minority in China. According to China's minority preference policy, ethnic minority students take the Gaokao in their native language, allowing Korean-Chinese students to take exams in subjects like Math and History in Korean. Due to migration since the late 19th century, many have Chinese spouses, and many have Han Chinese relatives. The current situation shows no signs of improvement, perpetuating the skewed industrial structure of Yanji and exacerbating the discord within the Korean-Chinese community. However, due to the significant number of workers earning money abroad, their income level remains relatively high. Still, the disparity between rich and poor is a concern. Among the Korean-Chinese (overseas Koreans in China with Chinese nationality), there are indeed those who participate in democracy movements like those in Tibet, Uighur, and Hong Kong, advocating for “Chinese democracy.” However, they are in the minority, and the perception of Korean-Chinese in South Korea is so negative that their efforts are not widely recognized. Primarily concentrated in Korean-Chinese autonomous regions like Yanbian Korean Autonomous Prefecture and Changbai Korean Autonomous County, and scattered across Jilin, Liaoning, and Heilongjiang provinces, the Korean-Chinese population, also known as “Joseonjok”, has started moving to economically developed areas like Beijing and Shanghai on China' s eastern coast due to China’s industrialization and urbanization. Many have also migrated to South Korea. While sharing similar cultural roots and lineage with both South and North Korea, there are significant differences stemming from South Korea's Westernization, North Korea's isolationism, and the Sinicization of the Korean-Chinese. These differences have intensified due to China's“Northeast Project” and the lack of attention from both North and South Korea towards the Korean-Chinese. Even within the Korean-Chinese community, dialect differences in the Korean language (known as “Joseon language”) exist depending on their residential area in China, and regional sentiments among them are prevalent. They identify themselves as “Chinese”. Naturally, their sense of nationality and identity differs from that of Koreans. Born and raised in China, they hold Chinese citizenship, attend schools with Han Chinese, and are educated through a Chinese curriculum. This education instills in them a mindset and identity distinct from Koreans. For Koreans, there's typically no dilemma about their national and ethnic identity aligning. However, for the Korean-Chinese, these identities diverge from birth. They grow up as an ethnic minority in China, later becoming aware of their ancestral homeland. In a country like South Korea, where there's no perceived ethnic threat, one doesn’t experience discrimination or distinction based on ethnicity. However, for Korean-Chinese, their associated country is China, and as a minority group, their identity naturally varies from Koreans. The term“ethnic consciousness”holds different implications for Koreans and Korean-Chinese. Growing up under China's authoritarian regime, they are educated as a minority. Expecting them to have a national consciousness identical to Koreans just because they speak Korean is unrealistic. While China is a multi-ethnic state, it doesn't encourage assimilation like the U.S. Instead, it fears that granting autonomy to minorities may lead to national fragmentation. Proclaiming pride in one's ancestral homeland, like Korea, can label one a person of interest, possibly jeopardizing government or state-owned enterprise employment. Since China's proactive reforms in the 1990s, the Korean-Chinese have migrated from their autonomous regions and the northeastern provinces to inland and coastal areas, leading to a noticeable assimilation into the Han Chinese majority. Particularly, Korean-Chinese youth living in non-autonomous urban areas mostly remain unaware of the Korean language. Many Korean-Chinese parents, struggling with Mandarin and feeling marginalized in mainstream society, or associating with Korean companies, often discourage their children from using the Korean language.

References

Esiymbro (talk) 15:47, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

"Chaoxianzu in America" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Chaoxianzu in America has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 January 25 § Chaoxianzu in America until a consensus is reached. Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 07:50, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

"Korean Chinese American" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Korean Chinese American has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 January 25 § Korean Chinese American until a consensus is reached. Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 07:50, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 14 February 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (non-admin closure) NasssaNser_talk 11:17, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

---

• Chaoxianzu → Korean Chinese
• Chaoxianzu in Japan → Korean Chinese in Japan
• Chaoxianzu in Korea → Korean Chinese in Korea

– The series of articles were all created by the User:Strategicasian (now indef blocked): the main article Chaoxianzu was split from the page Koreans in China, while the other two were newly created. Inexplicably, the user did not use the far more common name "Korean Chinese", but chose the romanization of the Chinese name which is hardly used in English sources.

A Google search for the term "Chaoxianzu" returned only 34,300 results [5], while "Korean Chinese" (with quotes) returned 8,500,000 results [6]. Google News search returned only 8 (!) results for "Chaoxianzu" [7], compared to 112,000 for "Korean Chinese". A move will also allow for more consistency with articles such as Korean Americans. Esiymbro (talk) 12:47, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Korea has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 17:18, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject China has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 17:18, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Comment This could be the right move, but I don't agree with the evidence presented. Browsing through Google Books, there's significant overlap with unrelated results. "Korean-Chinese Word Lists 5000: Learn Chinese and Korean", "Since the normalization of Sino-Korean diplomatic relations in 1992"... Evidence needs to be presented (possibly through a more rigorous manual count of reliable sources on x number of search pages) that a certain term is more common. toobigtokale (talk)

There are unrelated results, but "Korean Chinese" is going to be the more common term as long as more than 0.5% of the 8.5 million results are relevant. From the first pages it seems that actually around half are relevant – that would make "Korean Chinese" 100 times more common as "Chaoxianzu" even if we ignore irrelavant search hits. Esiymbro (talk) 06:19, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

I'm trying my own search, but I'm not seeing that 50% ratio hold up on subsequent pages. Furthermore, we should be relying on RS counts and not Google search results. What would thoroughly convince me is prioritizing Google Scholar or Google Books, and taking a formal count of X number of pages, maybe 2 or 3 pages.

I have no strong opinion either way, and if other users feel your arguments are enough then maybe this will pass. But I think common name has yet to be reasonably rigorously established. toobigtokale (talk) 11:25, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose to avoid confusion. Korean Chinese may refer to:
  • Sino-Korean vocabulary, Chinese loanwords in the Korean language
  • People's Republic of China – North Korea relations
  • People's Republic of China – South Korea relations
  • Republic of China – North Korea relations
  • Republic of China – South Korea relations
  • Ethnic Chinese in Korea (also known as Hwagyo)
  • Koreans in China (Chaoxianzu, Ethnic Koreans living in China)
  • Korean Chinese cuisine, a cuisine developed in South Korea derived from Chinese cuisine
  • Korean language in China (also known as Jungguk Joseonmal)

https://it.wiki.x.io/wiki/Chaoxianzu

https://id.wiki.x.io/wiki/Chaoxianzu_(istilah)

Choosing "Chaoxianzu" not "Korean Chinese" as an article title involves deep considerations of cultural, historical, and linguistic factors. "Chaoxianzu," officially recognized by the Chinese government, is used to refer to the ethnic Korean minority living in China (Chinese citizen), highlighting the importance of using terms that respect the self-identification of this Chinese ethnic groups. This term is the direct romanization of the Chinese characters Cháo Xiǎn Zú (朝鲜族), ensuring linguistic accuracy and a direct link to Chinese language sources, which is essential for academic and research accuracy. The use of "Chaoxianzu" in various language editions of Wikipedia, including Italian and Indonesian, establishes a consistency that aids users in seamlessly finding and correlating information across languages. Additionally, the term "Chaoxianzu," when written in English romanization, is widely used in the world officially, academically, and in media publications. There is absolutely no reason to change it to the ambiguous term "Korean Chinese." This term clearly distinguishes between ethnic and national identities, a crucial aspect in discussions about ethnic minorities, and avoids potentially linking the group too closely with the Korean or Chinese nation-state, which could overshadow their own Chaoxianzu ethnic heritage which is quite different with Han Chinese and other Korean diaspora. Chaoxianzu is already used as an official name in China and around the world and is also used academically, but "Korean Chinese" can refer to Korean-style Chinese dishes such as Jajangmyeon and Yusanseul, and changing the name of the page to "Korean Chinese" which also means an ambiguous Korean Chinese dish that often changes the front and back order academically (such as Chinese Korean food/people or Korean Chinese food/people) makes it very inaccessible and unsuitable for Wikipedia titles. The Google results provided are just a mixture of numerous "Korean" and "Chinese" and can never mean a simple Chaoxianzu. This could undermine the value of Chaoxianzu, who has a Chinese nationality and a unique identity, to the extent that moving this article to "Korean Chinese" equals to saying that it is Jajangmyeon = Chaoxianzu. Therefore, I am against moving "Chaoxianzu" to "Korean Chinese". Furthermore, the term "Korean Chinese" might inadvertently blur the distinctions between the Korean peninsula and China, a sensitive issue considering the intricate historical and political relations in East Asia. By using "Chaoxianzu," the focus remains on ethnic identity rather than political sovereignty or national affiliation, aligning with Wikipedia's commitment to providing accurate, neutral, and globally consistent information. Lastly, if we want to move this page, then we should move to the Chaoxianzu Chinese because of the unity of Han Chinese within Wikipedia, rather than comparing it to Korean American. Korean Americans have no Chinese nationality. However, Han Chinese and Chaoxianzu are clearly Chinese citizen. I strongly recommend maintaining "Chaoxianzu" and oppose moving it to "Korean Chinese." If a move is considered, shifting to "Chaoxianzu Chinese" could be possible, but I feel there is no significant necessity for this change, concluding that there is no need for a move. Similarly, for the same reasons, there seems to be no need to move "Chaoxianzu in Korea" and "Chaoxianzu in Japan" as well. Moving them would clutter the keywords and make differentiation difficult.

Reference

• Ethnic tourism, identity, and community empowerment: perspective of “Chaoxianzu” in Yanbian, China Park, Jeongeun (Korean), University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign / Graduate Dissertations and Theses at Illinois
• The formation of the Chaoxianzu: National, societal, and ethnic perspectives LI Haiyan (Chinese), Tokyo University of Science
• Implication from the study on the bilingual education of China's Chaoxianzu Schools by Youngsoon Kim (Korean), Jia Chen and Haiying Huang (Chinese)
• Chaoxianzu Vocal Music: Its Development and Dissemination by Sunhee Koo (Korean), University of Hawaii, Honolulu
• Chaoxianzu – referring to Korean ethnic minorities in China – with Chinese nationality., The Diplomat

Auroradio (talk) 13:19, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

None of this explains why only 8 English-language articles in Google News (including the one you linked) ever used the name "Chaoxianzu" when referring to the community of 1.8 million. I don't see how there is confusion with Sino-Korean vocabulary, China-Korea relations, Korean language in China or Jajangmyeon noodles, etc, either. Esiymbro (talk) 15:08, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose because your claim does not mean that the official academic term Chaoxianzu disappears. Please stop the groundless claim. Wiki is not a page that works with Google hundred percent. Please prove that the term Chaoxianzu does not exist academically. Perhaps it is impossible.

Reference

• https://scholar.kyobobook.co.kr/article/detail/4010027805070 (Academic)
• https://www.dbpia.co.kr/journal/articleDetail?nodeId=NODE01597157 (Academic)
• https://m.riss.kr/search/detail/ssoSkipDetailView.do?p_mat_type=1a0202e37d52c72d&control_no=93cc442f6db22c94b7998d826d417196 (Academic)
• https://www.dbpia.co.kr/journal/articleDetail?nodeId=NODE06516423 (Academic)
• https://scholar.kyobobook.co.kr/article/detail/4010023713995 (Academic)
• https://www.dbpia.co.kr/journal/articleDetail?nodeId=NODE10572467 (Academic)
• https://www.dbpia.co.kr/journal/articleDetail?nodeId=NODE08847382 (Academic)
• https://www.dbpia.co.kr/journal/articleDetail?nodeId=NODE07238993 (Academic)
• https://www.dbpia.co.kr/journal/articleDetail?nodeId=NODE02086560 (Academic)
• https://www.maangchi.com/recipes/korean-chinese (General)
• https://www.octo.nyc (General)
• https://www.koreanbapsang.com/category/korean-chinese/ (General)

Auroradio (talk) 14:08, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

For reference, I'm still skeptical of @Esiymbro's rationale because I think common name hasn't been proven, but I'm quadruply more skeptical of your arguments. I don't think you fully understand or have thoroughly read WP:COMMONNAME, nor have you read and understood many other move discussions. I also think your tone in particular is overly combative and verbose, with pointing to limited anecdotes as if they're final authorities.

I'll note that this is very similar behavior displayed by a previously banned user associated with this article, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're a different person. If you are the banned person, for the love of god please stop making more accounts and step away from Wikipedia. Behaving like this makes your arguments look worse, not better. toobigtokale (talk) 17:43, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

As a side note, @Esiymbro, the taking a manual count of 2-3 pages of Google Scholar or Google Books to establish common name only takes 5-7 minutes at most if you do it in one go. Should be done for any non-obvious move for a reasonably important page like this. toobigtokale (talk) 17:48, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

An issue is that a lot of articles use descriptive phrases such as "China's Korean community". I did search multiple pages and "Korean Chinese" should still be the most common term that is suitable as title, though. Another frequent name is "ethnic Koreans of China" or its variants (but this has the same ambiguity as the article Koreans in China). Esiymbro (talk) 02:41, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

That's true; still, for other pages with similar concerns, more rigorous counts have still been conducted with those kinds of concerns in mind. For reference, I think the target title is probably fine and the more common English term, but still don't think proof of common name has been adequately provided. toobigtokale (talk) 03:28, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

Support moves 2 and 3 based on the contents. I am not so sure about leaving the first one as a redirect if it is moved. I think the general term doesn't specifically refer to "Korean Chinese", but rather simply "Korean ethnicity", and there doesn't seem to be a reason to base our redirect from that term on how it is defined by the Chinese government. I separately attempted to clean up Chaoxianzu in Japan and there was not much left. Some of the contents were not supported by the sources, and other elements were basically WP:OR. Dekimasuよ! 05:10, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

The term ‘Korean Chinese’ does not specifically refer to ‘Chaoxianzu.’ Therefore, it would be inaccurate to rename ‘Chaoxianzu in Japan’ to ‘Korean Chinese in Japan.’ This is supported by reliable sources that I have added.

Reference

• According to an interview with the Nihon University, the Chaoxianzu Research Society in Japan of China's Jilin Newspaper, Professor Jeong Hyeong-gyu, who was born in China in 1956, said that it is more accurate for Chaoxianzu in Japan to be called Chaoxianzu (Hangul: 조선족 Joseonjok, Chinese and Japanese:朝鮮族) than Han-in (Hangul: 한인, Chinese and Japanese: 韓人) or Korean (Hangul: 코리안, Japanese: コリアン). The professor said Chaoxianzu should be proud of their identity and the significance of their existence. <재일조선족 밝은 미래가 보인다> 한인 혹은 코리안 등으로 불리우는 것보다 조선족으로 불리우는 것이 정확하다. <在日朝鮮族、明るい未来が見える> 韓人あるいはコリアンなどと呼ばれるより朝鮮族と呼ばれる方が正確だ。 Kim Jun-ho, Jilin Newspaper, Daily Union News (China and Korea)

Auroradio (talk) 14:39, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

This is a non-argument. It doesn't establish common name. Also, sometimes if you can explain why a term is offensive you can use a number of sources to explain why, but this doesn't do that either. You wrote a paragraph that added basically nothing; this is what I mean by you being verbose. toobigtokale (talk) 17:52, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

Hi, toobigtokale, As a Korean, I just found out this wiki page. I don't agree with this move. If people here can search in Korean and Japanese, I think it's really easy to find that Chaoxianzu Chinese has their own community in Korea and Japan. They act different with Han Chinese and other Korean people so it's not suitable for name them Korean Chinese, Chaoxianzu seems to be their academic name and we Korean people, call them "조선족". Also, Chaoxianzu themselves don't think they are Korean. They are all Chinese citizen.

1. People who strongly felt the need for a Chaoxianzu community and shared the same feelings gathered to officially establish the "Chaoxianzu Kansai Friendship Association in Japan" in April 2012.[8]
2. There are 700,000 Chinese living in Japan, including international students, of which about 100,000 are Chaoxianzu.[9]
3. "2015 Language Class for Chaoxinazu Children in Japan" at the Life Learning Center in Arakawa-gu, Tokyo.[10]
4. Not only Chaoxianzu in Korea, but also Chaoxianzu in Japan and Chaoxianzu in mainland China have the same concerns, and it is the establishment of identity. Academics are also increasingly concerned and researched on this part. The purpose of the research society is to study the identity of Chaoxianzu and their activities in various fields to promote their presence and seek symbiosis.[11]
5. Urban areas in China or Chaoxianzu social organizations in Japan and Korea differ in capacity and growth environment from region to region, respectively. Chaoxianzu social organizations in Korea are a growth environment in which network exchanges with Chaoxianzu in China and Chaoxianzu social organizations in Japan can be activated. Chaoxianzu social organizations in Korea will have a different form of activities with a vision to induce political participation and promote regional governance of overseas Chaoxianzu.[12]
6. Chaoxianzu have a strong tendency to find their identity in 'China' rather than in Korea while contacting Koreans. The Chaoxianzu, they are heterogeneous groups that are beyond the scope of Korean recognition. When the skin is peeled off, it turns out that their inner strength is the identity of the Chaoxianzu. The majority of Chaoxianzus think they are Chinese, the Chaoxianzu are members of the great family of the Chinese people, and the People's Republic of China is their homeland. About 80,000 to 100,000 Chaoxianzu in Japan have far more intellectuals than Chaoxianzu in Korea. However, many of them are tense in the thinking framework of the Chinese Communist Party. The reason why overseas Chaoxianzu cannot properly accept the values of freedom and democracy of the country concerned is because they are deeply buried in the values of the Chinese Communist Party.[13]

All those articles says they are 재한(in Korea) and 재일(in Japan) 조선족(Chaoxianzu in Chinese language and Joseonjok in Korean language), not Korean people. Malgunbyeol (talk) 11:16, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

1. Chaoxianzu literally means "Korean ethnic group" in Chinese, Chaoxian/Joseon being the name for Korean Peninsula/Koreans that is still in use in North Korea, China and some other overseas communities. They do not consider themselves Korean nationals. Please distinguish the ethnic group from the country.

2. This is clearly WP:BLOCKEVASION going on. Esiymbro (talk) 02:34, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

Why even bother with this kind of ban evasion? Seriously, stop making new accounts and step away from Wikipedia. I regret that I tried being nice to you in the past; your bald-face lying to me by switching to a new account after I asked you not to is insulting. toobigtokale (talk) 10:38, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

Support per nom. 三葉草 San Ye Cao 04:40, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

Support. Mamiamauwy (talk) 12:00, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

• Support per WP:UE (Use English). Skimming some of the above text wall (at least, they look that on mobile), one of the arguments against the move is that this ethnic group don't consider themselves Koreans. In this lay person's uninformed view, there are two common meanings to "Korean": the ethnicity or the nation(s). I don't see how chaoxianzu resolves this ambiguity for most English-language speakers. "Korean Chinese" at least has a shot. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 01:25, 22 February 2024 (UTC)
• Support Colloquially chaoxianzu is ambiguous. Personally I've only ever heard it refer to Koreans as an ethnicity and not specifically Koreans in China. Qiushufang (talk) 02:45, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

"Chaoxianzu Koreans" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Chaoxianzu Koreans has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 February 26 § Chaoxianzu Koreans until a consensus is reached. Jay 💬 18:30, 26 February 2024 (UTC)