Talk:Jovan Blagojevic (soccer, born 1991)

Requested move 22 May 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved (non-admin closure) Kharkiv07 (T) 14:54, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

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Jovan Blagojević → Jovan Blagojevic – All of the English-language sources use the spelling without diacritics. Walter Görlitz (talk) 05:36, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

• Support WP:COMMONNAME. Khestwol (talk) 07:45, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
• Support because he is Canadian. English-languages sources using or not using full fonts is irrelevant. We always give full Serbian names to Serbian footballers even when English-language sources don't but this player isn't Serbian. In ictu oculi (talk) 09:29, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
• Strongest Opposition Only English-centrists would be OK with this kind of moves. Also, if his name can't use diacritics, then neither should French-Canadian names. Otherwise, it would be blatant double-standards. — CÉDRIC: PROUDLY REGISTERED! 17:17, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Comment The guy who proposed the move has an umlaut in his account name. I don't believe I am English-centrist. It's not that his article can't use diacritics, it's that it shouldn't use it. I agree that articles of individuals with French-Canadian names should not contain diacritics for the same reasons given above. Walter Görlitz (talk) 03:53, 27 May 2015 (UTC)
    • Counter-Comment First and foremost, Jovan is a Serbian, which means his family name shall not be subject to English rules, especially not North American rules. And before anyone says anything, this has nothing to do with "righting great wrongs". Rather, renaming this page is wronging what has been right all along. Secondly, as I've been arguing all these days, when it comes to non-English names, references in the name's native languages should take precedence over English sources because of the intrinsic fallacy within most English sources. For those of you who know Cyrillic alphabets, Google "Благојевиц" ("Blagojevic") and you ain't gonna find find zilch, but Google "Благојевић" ("Blagojević") and you'll find dozens of persons with that family name. Finally, I respect everyone's right to use umlauts and I'm sure you would be highly offended if someone ever tells you to "get your ass back to Germany" just because they see the umlauts in your family name, so why are you doing the same to someone else's family name?
    • Further reading: Chipewyan baby name not allowed on N.W.T. birth certificate by CBC. — CÉDRIC: PROUDLY REGISTERED! 05:37, 27 May 2015 (UTC)
      • Sorry. He's Canadian. He may have been born in Serbia, but for the purposes of the league, he is considered Canadian. I couldn't care less whether someone tells me to get back to Germany. They have every right to do so. However, I'm not German. I choose to style my name using the German spelling. However every legal Canadian document I have does not contain the umlaut. I'm sure the same can be said for your Canadian documents. Walter Görlitz (talk) 06:47, 27 May 2015 (UTC)
        • Since when did I say I was Canadian? I'm a proud Chinese citizen born and raised and we use a completely different writing system, saving us all these meaningless anti-diacritic crusades. But back to our discussion here, what you're promoting here is essentially North American exceptionalism: My arguments are invalid because Jovan is a Canadian and Canadians can't have accented surnames; Whitecaps FC 2 can't decorate their captains because North American teams don't do that; etc., etc., etc.. I'm backing down on this without a fight. Finally, I saw what you wrote on your user page and I see you care a lot about consensus, so tell me: Since when did the English Wikipedia community reach consensus on starting a crusade against diacritics in the names of people of non-English ancestry but having North American citizenship(s)? — CÉDRIC: PROUDLY REGISTERED! 18:34, 27 May 2015 (UTC)
          • Sorry. I assumed with your interest in things in Vancouver that you had ties to the region. As for not caring about consensus, I don't see that on my talk page. And so far the consensus here is move. Walter Görlitz (talk) 04:36, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
            • First, I think you misunderstood my question. My question is about the consensus at Portal:Association football which didn't seem to have started a crusade against diacritics. Second, there's a major difference between "consensus" and "majority" and from what I can tell here, this is merely a majority. Third, we're dealing with a Serbian surname while everyone except me is looking at English sources. That just doesn't make sense. — CÉDRIC: PROUDLY REGISTERED! 20:39, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
              • How in the world would I know that you were talking about a consensus at a different location if you never mentioned it? No, there's no difference between a consensus and a majority in this case. I'll take this a step further. What's the capital of the country where Blagojevic's father was born: SFR Yugoslavia? Using the Latin alphabet, it would be Beograd, but yet there's no article there. Why is that? There's an English-language equivalent. That's known as an exonym. I would argue that we have a similar issue with this subject's surname. What doesn't make sense is your arguments. Walter Görlitz (talk) 04:19, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
• Support per IIO above and WP:COMMONNAME. Calidum T|C 22:39, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
• Support - I don't buy into the "he's Canadian" argument, because, well, I don't see the proof being given for him being Canadian. He was clearly brought up in Canada, but is he a Canadian citizen, and does he identify as being Canadian? However... every source that I see that is talking about this Jovan Blagojevic seems to exclusively use the diacritic-free version. CÉDRIC, when you're looking up sources, are you certain they are for this player? Because I can see evidence for an older player of the same name who plays/played for FK Velež Mostar. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 01:16, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. GiantSnowman 18:13, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

• Support, similar situation to Dejan Jakovic - we use what sources tell us, not what nationalists want. GiantSnowman 18:17, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.