Talk:Generation "П"

Original research

Much of the article appears to be original research. Trying to verify these claims would be extremely laborious, so I'm inclined to completely remove this material. This seems preferable to leaving huge amounts of questionable material on the page. Anyone who thought there was some value in would be free to reintroduce it along with suitable references. - Crosbiesmith 12:43, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

P for Pepsi

I removed the statement ' The "П" in the title stands for "Пепси", the rendering in Russian of "Pepsi" '. In the interview 'I never was a hero', Pelevin seems to contradict this. - Crosbiesmith 20:54, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Once upon a time in Russia there really was a carefree, youthful generation that smiled in joy at the summer, the sea and the sun, and chose Pepsi.

It's hard at this stage to figure out exactly how this situation came about. Most likely it involved more than just the remarkable taste of the drink in question. More than just the caffeine that keeps young kids demanding another dose, steering them securely out of childhood into the clear waters of the channel of cocaine. More, even, than a banal bribe: it would be nice to think that the Party bureaucrat who took the crucial decision to sign the contract simply fell in love with this dark, fizzy liquid with every fibre of a soul no longer sustained by faith in communism.

The most likely reason, though, is that the ideologists of the USSR believed there could only be one truth. So in fact Generation T' had no choice in the matter and children of the Soviet seventies chose Pepsi in precisely the same way as their parents chose Brezhnev.

No matter which way it was, as these children lounged on the seashore in the summer, gazing endlessly at a cloudless blue horizon, they drank warm Pepsi-Cola decanted into glass bottles in the city of Novorossiisk and dreamed that some day the distant forbidden world on the far side of the sea would be part of their own lives.

Babylen Tatarsky was by default a member of Generation 'P', although it was a long time before he had any inkling of the fact. If in those distant years someone had told him that when he grew up he would be a copywriter, he'd probably have dropped his bottle of Pepsi-Cola on the hot gravel of the pioneer-camp beach in his astonishment. In those distant years children were expected to direct their aspirations towards a gleaming fireman's helmet or a doctor's white coat. Even that peaceful word 'designer' seemed a dubious neologism only likely to be tolerated until the next serious worsening in the international situation.

So begins the story. Some guys put it online, so you can easily google to find the whole text. ellol 07:33, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

I may be mistaken but I'm pretty sure I've seen Russian Pepsi ads that use the term "generation" (I forget the exact slogan). Also, Pepsi has several paragraphs on the Soviet/Russian connection and links here. Stuffisthings (talk) 16:30, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as stub, and the rating on other projects was brought up to Stub class. BetacommandBot 13:37, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Babylen?!

I'm currently reading this in Russian and the main character's name is "Vavilen", not "Babylen". Should we go with a shoddy English translation or the original Russian. Bear in mind that his name stands for "Vasily Aksenov, Vladimir Ilyich Lenin" (V.A.V.I.L.). Surely the Russian original is our primary interest? Malick78 (talk) 14:38, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Well in Russian "Babylon" is usually written "Вавилон" (Vavilon), no? I've reread the published English translation several times now (it's one of my favorite novels) as well as some of the online translations, and based on my limited knowledge of Russian it seems that the official translator has done a decent job of handling the many verbal puns on English and Russian words, as well as Pelevin's many neologisms. And on Wikipedia it seems better to go with the officially-published English translation -- however "shoddy" some people may feel it to be -- than other less notable "amateur" translations or original research. And we won't even get into "moutharsing," Fukem-Al, Phukkup... =) Stuffisthings (talk) 15:01, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

References

What is the policy on using the novel itself as a reference? (In the English translation anyway) Pelevin states quite clearly on page 2 that "Babylen"'s name comes from "the title of Yevtushenko's famous poem 'Baby Yar' and Lenin." In the next paragraph the narrator says Tatarsky lied to his friends that the name had to do with the ancient city of Babylon (which anyway is a very common motif in modern Russian culture, to the point where I think almost any Russian reader would instantly associate his name with the city). Would this mention in the novel suffice as a citation for the "Mesopotamian Mythology" section? Also, the stuff in "Media Biasing and Homo Sovieticus" is a straightforward paraphrase of statements in different chapters of the novel, and doesn't read to me as OR at all (as opposed to the drugs section, which does). Again, not clear on the policy for this on Wikipedia literary articles. Must we find a critic somewhere who points out things that are stated plainly in the text? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Stuffisthings (talk • contribs) 16:26, 10 June 2009 (UTC)