Talk:Executions and assassinations during the Israel–Hamas war

"point of view" on assassination of wounded combatants

What point of view is missing from that section? I'll see if I can find a more pro-Israeli version in Jerusalem Post? Any other suggested sources? I don't think there were ever any credible stories claiming the killers were anyone else? Or any good arguments for it not being at least two types of war crime (the disguises and attacking wounded combatants)? MWQs (talk) 22:58, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

It seems to have been added by an IP account complaining about a "martyrdom agenda"? What I wrote was an attempt to say that Palestinians have a right to medical care and should NOT be killed in hospital, so, NOT become martyrs. Is there a way to communicate that more clearly? MWQs (talk) 23:09, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

point of views

@User:Dclemens1971 can you be more specific about the point of views issue? which view do you think is favoured on the page? what do you think is missing? can you suggest any sources for balance? FourPi (talk) 08:48, 26 August 2024 (UTC) Blocked sock. SilverLocust 💬 08:49, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

A few points:

• Under "Assassination of a wounded militant and his companions in hospital," none of the sources describe the killings as "execution" or "assassination." Two sources quote Palestinian officials as describing them in such terms, but that is obviously not an NPOV.
• Under "Summary execution for breaching a barrier to harvest crops," neither of the Ha'aretz sources (the only sources cited) describe the killings as "execution" or "assassination."
• Under "Al-Hasayna and Abu Sharia families," the families are described as "martyrs," which is not a neutral term.

There are more but you should be able to get the picture. Dclemens1971 (talk) 13:20, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

Separate the article

This article should be split into two articles:

• Summary executions during the war
• Targeted killings/assassinations during the war

Under international law, those two are different things. We should not be conflating them.VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 01:57, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

FourPi and Dclemens1971 any thoughts? VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 00:07, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

@Vice regent No opinion on this! Got involved in this page after leaving a maintenance tag during New Page Review but I don't otherwise weigh in on this topic area. Also no use in pinging FourPi, it's a blocked sock account. Dclemens1971 (talk) 01:27, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

I see. Ok buidhe and Nishidani any opinions? VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 03:12, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

I am inclined to support for the same reasons VR proposed. Assassination can sometimes be legal, summary execution never is. (t · c) buidhe 03:20, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

I've no strong view either way. Reading the article I did note a somewhat anomalous section on the Hamas attack on the Nahal Oz military base as an instance of execution. This draws on one ToL article, which refers to the female soldiers who were operating as spotters (tatzpitaniyot), and their deaths are depicted as executions of unarmed personnel or of personnel who had no training in the use of arms (that on the basis of one survivor's statement). As far as my reading over the years tells me, these tatzpitaniyot sat at their surveillance monitors, which are equipped with a system to activate remote-controlled machine guns. Once an 'intrusion' (a Gazan coming to within 300 yards of the border) is noted by any of them, they can activite the automatic guns that fire on Gazans within the 'killing zone'. These have been in recent years installed in surveillance towers overlooking the West Bank's refugee camps, such as at the Al Arroub refugee camp.

Aside from the question as to whether or not one can enter the IDF and be drilled without ever being trained to use a gun, the young women were operative during the attack. The automatic systems could not be signalled via computers to fire because Hamas had knocked out the camera-system connected to the machine-guns. What the text is intimating is that in the control room attacked, the women had no access to firearms, and therefore were 'executed'. This whole narrative is spun as if Israel makes a distinction between soldiers bearing arms, who die in battle, and soldiers who are on military alert, but at the time lacked their rifles, a distinction certainly never applied in directing fire at Hamas militants. If you belong to Hamas, you are, in the IDF view, a legitimate target, regardless of the state of your preparedness. We probably need an article on that particular surveillance system, which, from memory was activated around the 2008 war, and has become increasingly sophisticated, and is manned predominantly by young women. But here the case for 'execution' is far too thin: we still do not have adequate secondary source analysis of the dynamics of that initial assault across the border and the article from ToL is wholly inadequate to warrant our citing the episode as an example of 'execution'.Nishidani (talk) 08:46, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

If no objections emerge here I will remove that section within a few days.Nishidani (talk) 11:49, 29 September 2024 (UTC)