Talk:Bruce Lee/Archive 6

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Misleading quote about striking speed

I've seen YouTube comments where users claimed that Bruce Lee could throw punches within "1/500" of a second. I believe this notion originated from this article on Wikipedia which states: "Lee's striking speed from three feet with his hands down by his side reached five hundredths of a second," taken from John Little and interpreted by some to mean "1/500".

However, another quote by Jesse Glover was "We setup a pad for him to hit with a cut off switch behind some padding. We had a clock that timed in 100's of a second. From eighteen inches away Bruce had to react to a light that went off and started the clock. When he hit the pad it stopped the clock. Bruce's quickest time was 5 hundredths of a second. His slowest time was 8 hundredths of a second." I don't have a proper citation for this quote, but it should be clear by this wording that in either situation, the lengths of time referred to were 0.05 second to 0.08 second, respectively, not "1/500" or "1/800". Shawnc (talk) 08:20, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Here you can see the actual quote by Mr. Glover, taking from the book "Bruce Lee - Between Wing Chun and Jeet Kune Do".

• http://imageshack.us/f/840/gloverbetweenwcandjkdti.jpg/

Now any speculation should be over. --Niten Doraku (talk) 13:32, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Criticism?

There is plenty of criticism for this fairy tale for grown-ups. 184.96.242.187 (talk) 16:35, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

There are plenty of anecdotes and documented cases of his less-than-perfect temper (the time he threatened to beat Robin's actor to within an inch of his life if the script wasn't changed to have Kato win a fight comes to mind) and similar imperfections. We should probably include them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.194.202.186 (talk) 14:57, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Some miscellaneous stuff

There was this picture on his burial... It said he was buried next to his son Brandon's grave... I think there was something wrong with the structure of the sentence. He died before his son didn't he? So shouldn't it be his son was buried next to him, not he was buried next to his son's grave, cuz it kindof brings out the sequence of events, which is kindof awkward... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.255.2.125 (talk) 13:25, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

50 one arm chinups

I highly doubt that he was able to do this. The best rock climbers and gymnasts in the world can do no more than 10 in a row. The most ever recorded is 27 but they were done dynamically and so don't really count. I don't have John Little's book so I can't check the reference. Can someone give the actual quote and where the source for this comes from originally. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.178.22.82 (talk) 17:03, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

I found the quote from Little's book. The quote is from Lee's workout partner George Lee. "Bruce was exceptionally strong. I vividly remember seeing him perform 50 one-arm chin-ups one day in Oakland. It was incredible!..." It doesn't say that he did them in a single set. He could have done them one at a time with a rest between each one, and it doesn't mention how dynamic they were. I'd say that the way it's written in the physical feats section is misleading since it says 50 reps, which normally means in a single set without rest. I wonder if George is still around to give us more detail. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.178.22.82 (talk) 17:29, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Some miscellaneous stuff

There was this picture on his burial... It said he was buried next to his son Brandon's grave... I think there was something wrong with the structure of the sentence. He died before his son didn't he? So shouldn't it be his son was buried next to him, not he was buried next to his son's grave, cuz it kindof brings out the sequence of events, which is kindof awkward... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.255.2.125 (talk) 13:25, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

50 one arm chinups

I highly doubt that he was able to do this. The best rock climbers and gymnasts in the world can do no more than 10 in a row. The most ever recorded is 27 but they were done dynamically and so don't really count. I don't have John Little's book so I can't check the reference. Can someone give the actual quote and where the source for this comes from originally. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.178.22.82 (talk) 17:03, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

I found the quote from Little's book. The quote is from Lee's workout partner George Lee. "Bruce was exceptionally strong. I vividly remember seeing him perform 50 one-arm chin-ups one day in Oakland. It was incredible!..." It doesn't say that he did them in a single set. He could have done them one at a time with a rest between each one, and it doesn't mention how dynamic they were. I'd say that the way it's written in the physical feats section is misleading since it says 50 reps, which normally means in a single set without rest. I wonder if George is still around to give us more detail. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.178.22.82 (talk) 17:29, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Bruce Lee's Nutritional Supplements

This is a note more for myself. Can anyone tell me what "Acerola – C and B-Folia" are as stated in the article? A Google search gives me the products prices and such but no explanations. Also, Wikipedia itself doesn't seem to have anything on these supplements.70.79.55.114 (talk) 09:41, 26 February 2012 (UTC)BeeCier

Edit request on 7 March 2012

this article contains claims from lee's friends which are obviously fabrications. for example: "Lee defeated three-time champion British boxer Gary Elms by way of knockout in the third round in the 1958 Hong Kong Inter-School amateur Boxing Championships by using Wing Chun traps and high/low-level straight punches.[42]"

in contrast http://www.boxingscene.com/-bruce-lee-pro-boxing-connection--12995 "According the eyewitness testimony of Rolf Clausnitzer, Elms lasted the distance in a bout that was dominated by Lee" Even more annoying than the changes of material fact coming from Lee's friends accepted by wikipedia authors as truth, is the context of statements like the one above. Look when Lee started studying Kung Fu, and look when he transfered to Lasalle where he began to recieve boxing instruction from Brother Edward. Lee had only studied a few years of kung fu (article says started 1954) and admittedly couldn't get the other kids to practice with him and was not a prized pupil in kung fu, and was only at Lasalle for a total of 2 years. The boxing instruction he received from brother Edward was obviously introductory, and the competition was among classmates also trained by Brother Edward. It was not an open class tournament among all HK schools, as this article implies "hong kong inter-school amatuer boxing championships". It was obviously a small novice competition among classmates. LOOK! He just started learning from Brother Edwards (article states he enrolled "around 1956" and left for the states at 18, which would be 1958) with no prior boxing instruction and limited kung fu instruction (which does not help in a real boxing tournament, trust me on that one. i boxed and studied martial arts and saw too many martial artists think they can box with no boxing instruction and got their faces beaten in). This was not a Hong Kong Championship as it implies the winner has some claim over all of Hong Kong. It was merely a competition that took place IN Hong Kong. It was also certainly not a "Championship". Even the "inter-school" wording is taking artistic license as it was classmates from 2associated Catholic Schools, not all the schools in HK or even a group of schools. I've seen videos of Bruce Lee hitting a bag and throwing punches and this guy is no boxer, not even a novice class boxer, not even after years of practicing what little he learned he still hit with his face and chin sticking out unprotected and wide school yard swings with elbows out. There is a REASON why the author placed this fake boxing credential FIRST in a section regarding competition: because Lee had almost no competiton experience and very little formal training before returning to California, and there was a need to paint him as a boxing champion to give him real fighting credibility. As far as boxing goes, Lee was a guy who had introductory boxing instruction along with other classmates from Brother Edward, and participated in an small informal competition among basically beginner classmates, like if you boxed with friends from school when you were a kid after a few lessons. Calling yourself a champion after something like that in an article discussing competition experience of a world known martial artist is a JOKE. You may as well list his food fight with shmeckie shmellman in the 3rd grade as a world freestyle fighting championship because it took place on the world and there were no formal rules.

71.98.209.199 (talk) 03:58, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Not done: Please just express your request in a 'please change X to Y' degree of detail and include reliable sources for any factual changes. Your one reference does not assert that the knockout story is incorrect, they merely say that a person claims to have seen the match and recalls it differently. They even disclaim "Regardless of the validity of these conflicting reports..." That doesn't balance well against the book which is used to support the current text. Celestra (talk) 05:04, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Caucasian mother ?

"his mother, Grace Ho (何愛瑜) was half Chinese and half Caucasian." What does Caucasian mean here? From the Caucasus or "white"?

She was half-German per page 20 of:

Lee, Linda (1989). The Bruce Lee Story. United States: Ohara Publications. ISBN 0897501217. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)

Myasuda (talk) 21:52, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes, in other languages in wikipedia correctly quoted as German! "Caucasian" sounds like "I don't know exactly"! - why not yet corrected??? (Dr. H. Alquiros) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.173.167.27 (talk) 05:24, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Agree. Changing to German. Caucasian's first meaning is someone from the Caucasus (Georgian, Armenian, Chechan), secondly it means of the "Caucasian race" which is everything from blonde to darkhaired with "white" skin. Now what's that supposed to mean in this article?

Anyways German is more correct.

--Diyairaniyanim (talk) 22:05, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

It has been discussed long time ago. Please watch the interview from Robert Lee on youtube, "half Chinese and half Caucasian" is what he have said about his mother. Richard Lee 9 (talk) 19:05, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

Ok well then if he said Caucasian then Caucasian it is, he knows his mother better than us... Just wondering though, is there a quote from him were he mentions exactly where from Caucasus? --Diyairaniyanim (talk) 22:57, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

Here is a link of the interview from "Bruce Lee Famous Families Documentary" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0VmRUg9evY Richard Lee 9 (talk) 18:45, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 27 March 2012

[The 2nd paragraph, 2nd sentence] returned should replace the word emigrated, as one can not emigrate to the country of their birth]

Lee returned to the United States at the age of 18 to claim his U.S. citizenship and receive his higher education. Tracy 23:09, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

 Done This all depends on what Lee considered 'his own country' and is a rather minor semantic quibble. This notwithstanding, 'returned' does seem to avoid any possible confusion. Change made. Pol430 talk to me 20:47, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Autopsy reports and cannabis

Some loose ends need to be tied here.... At first it is stated that "The only substance found during the autopsy was Equagesic,". Then:

The preliminary opinion of Peter Wu, the neurosurgeon who saved Lee's life during his first seizure, was that the cause of death should have been attributed to either a reaction to cannabis or Equagesic. However, Wu later backed off from this position, stating that:

'Professor Teare was a forensic scientist recommended by Scotland Yard; he was brought in as an expert on cannabis and we can't contradict his testimony. The dosage of cannabis is neither precise nor predictable, but I've never known of anyone dying simply from taking it.'[117]

So, it's saying that Wu thought the cause of death should have been attributed to a reaction to cannabis, and then quotes Wu retracting this idea, but it is never explained just how the doctor arrived at that conclusion. No where in the article is Lee's cannabis use even mentioned. It may leave some questions unanswered for anyone who wants to know what caused Bruce Lee to die. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.139.60.114 (talk) 17:35, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

Absolutely! I have scoured Wiki for the past half hour trying to find any correlation between 'cannabis' and meprobamate. I could find none. How does the term 'cannabis' get introduced here out-of-the-blue, seemingly "off the wall" too, suddenly in this part of the article?

There are some unexplained inconsistencies also. First the section says:

"Don Langford, Lee's personal physician in Hong Kong, had treated Lee during his first collapse. ::Controversy erupted when he stated, "Equagesic was not at all involved in Bruce's first collapse"."

But then it states:

"The preliminary opinion of Peter Wu, the neurosurgeon who saved Lee's life during his first

seizure, was that the cause of death should have been attributed to either a reaction to

cannabis or Equagesic."

Both, somehow, if they were both indeed involved in saving his life on the first occurrence

(and this is unverifiable at this point), seem to somehow discount Equagesic. The first one simply discounts it, while the second one introduces out-of-the-blue a completely new factor or element which is not accounted for so far anywhere, neither in the article, nor in Wikipedia alltogether. warshy^talk 18:28, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

Philosopher?

Why is he described as a philosopher? --SupernovaExplosion ^Talk 12:51, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Two reasons come to mind.

1. He was a Philosophy major in college.
2. Jeet Kune Do is rightfully described as a philosophy as oppossed to a martial art.

He did not found a "martial art" as some people incorrectly state. His vision of JKD was that a practicioner study various systems and take away what was useful for them and to discard what was not useful. For Lee it was fencing, boxing, Wing Chun, savate, etc. For others it is karate, jiujitsu, Muay thai, kempo, etc. His philosophy was that people are different and there is no "one-size fits all" approach to martial arts. Someone who is tall will find advantages that someone who is short will not, and vice-versa.--Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 23:25, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

That is interesting. I was not aware of these, learned interesting facts. However in Wikipedia, a fact like this should be properly sourced to scholarly references. See, for example, Ayn_Rand#cite_note-1. Does scholars, particularly dictionaries of philosophy published by academic presses, describe him as philosopher? --SupernovaExplosion ^Talk 01:06, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

That, I am not sure of, but plenty of reliable secondary sources do mention it, particularly within the realm of fighting arts:

• The Legendary Bruce Lee Jack Vaughn, Mike Lee(1986) Page 146 Quote: "In his JKD philosophy, Bruce stressed simplicity in approach and the direct expression of one's inner feelings."
• Bruce Lee: the incomparable fighter (1993) M. Uyehara Page 121 Quote:" Steve McQueen: 'When I first saw him, I couldn't understand that guy, I thought he was a brilliant, fine philosopher about everyday living.'"
• Martial Arts of the World : A-Q - Page 206 Thomas A. Green - 2001 Quote:"Philosophy of Jeet Kune Do: Jeet Kune Do meant much more to Bruce Lee than simply an efficient reality-based fighting art. Lee's philosophy toward martial arts and life, in general, was a fusion of Eastern and Western culture. He studied Socrates, Plato, Descartes, Daoism, Zen, Krishnamurti. As a result Lee's philosophy stressed the individual growth of the martial artist."
• Jeet kune do: Bruce Lee's commentaries on the martial way Bruce Lee, John Little - (1997) "Presents Bruce Lee's complete philosophy on the martial arts as a way of life, illustrating its principles and core techniques, and offering a treatise on the nature of combat."
• The Bruce Lee Story (1989) by Linda Lee, Jack Vaughn, Mike Lee Page 11:"He (Bruce Lee) captivated everyone's attention with his philosophical dissertations."
• Remembering the master: Bruce Lee - Page 100 Sid Campbell, Greglon Lee - 2006 "Under Bruce Lee's philosophical training, Dad's outlook and attitude on life changed too."
• Black Belt Magazine - Jul 1998 - Page 18 Vol. 36, No. 7 "Jeet kune do has survived and prospered because Lee was a philosopher. Many people think of Bruce Lee as a movie star or a master of technique. But the true Lee fanatics out there know that he went to college to study philosophy."
• Black Belt - Oct 1998 - Page 18 Vol. 36, No. 10 - "The touchstone and core philosophy of Bruce Lee was to "know yourself . It becomes clear to the more cognizant mind that all the avenues Lee took in life were in pursuit of self-cultivation."

The title of Lee's first book was: Chinese Gung Fu: the philosophical art of self defense --Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 04:54, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Bruce Lee is rightfully famous for a lot of things. Philosophy is not one of them. I think a person should at least have written a book or a collection of academic papers on philosophy in order to be called a philosopher. I mean, I sing in the shower. Am I a singer? Martin Rundkvist (talk) 11:36, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

There is a Zen saying: "The true philosopher becomes enlightened with a single thought, while the lazy man plows his way through books." That one thought that enlightens, is the truth that comes from within. Again, to some people, they just see a movie star or a martial arts guy...those who have taken the time to read his books, have found more. Jeet Kune Do was his philosophy and it is still impacting the lives of people to this day. He wrote several books, one even has Philosophical in the title.--Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 04:21, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Please create link for John Little in section about Bruce Lee's Philosophy

The article said "John Little states that Lee was an atheist", but I didn't know who John Little was or why he was considered authoritative, and I didn't notice any reference to John Little earlier in the article. Please link to the page for "John Little (writer)".

71.36.102.18 (talk) 03:20, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 7 May 2012

Not done: please be more specific about what needs to be changed. ~Adjwilley (talk) 02:24, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Adding Poetry

I want to expand on the information that has been provided for Bruce Lee. Everything has been covered, except for his poetic works. I want to add poetry to the Wikipedia page on him to share, and inform those that dont know much about Bruce Lee's poetry.

His poetry can be found in The Book: Bruce Lee Artist of Life Editor: John Little ISBN 978-0-8048-3263-2

BrokenSun (talk) 17:26, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Honk Kong

First paragraph of "Early life" says Honk Kong after mentioning his parents. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.245.44.140 (talk) 03:34, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

This article is filled with a bunch of bull

The physical feats are ridiculous. Snatching a dime from someone's open palm before they can close their hand... and not just that, but also leave a penny behind? Come on. 50 reps of 1-armed chin-ups? Side kicking a 300 pound punching bag and making it hit the ceiling? These are all just fairy tales. And the sources are not even reputable. Then there are all of the "fights". These are all just stories told by people close to him. Those are not legitimate sources that should be quoted in an encyclopedia. These are not facts and are certainly not impartial or independent.  Gamezero05  talk  07:00, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Your POV does not trump sourced content. Unless you can show that the editor who introduced these factoids did so in bad faith or did not properly transcribe the cited material, you should not stridently remove them without providing your evidence that the attributed sources are liars. — Myasuda (talk) 04:51, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

There is no proof that any of that is true. None of it is documented anywhere. It is only documented as hearsay. That is not a reliable source, regardless of whether or not it is published in a book. Anybody can write a book, and anybody can say things. For example... if I was famous, and one of my friends said "Gamezero05 can fly, has x-ray vision, and can teleport", and that quote was published in a book, that isn't proof that I can fly, have x-ray vision, and can teleport. That wouldn't be a reliable source. Using quotes that people said in a book that are completely unverifiable and putting it in this encyclopedia as fact is wrong.  Gamezero05  talk  05:21, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

I do agree that this section has an over reliance on a single source (John Little's book). Perhaps a solicitation for independent source(s) would help validate or invalidate the depictions currently given. To that end, we can insert a {{One source|section}} template (see Template:One source) which would serve both as a request for independent sources and as a warning to the reader. Incidentally, do you have objections to each of the entries in the section? The two-finger pushups seems to have video evidence supporting it: [1] [2]. — Myasuda (talk) 06:17, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

Two finger push-ups have video evidence, thus it is irrefutable. And not surprisingly, that was the most reasonable and believable feat on the list. The rest are nonsense.  Gamezero05  talk  08:01, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

Okay . . . but before you had stated "There is no proof that any of that is true. None of it is documented anywhere." (my emphasis). If you were mistaken about one entry, perhaps you were mistaken about at least some of the other ones. So, there's no need to be hasty about taking down everything at once without performing due diligence and carefully performing some cross-checks. — Myasuda (talk) 12:41, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

No, I did know about the fingertip pushups. I said "any" just to make it less complicated. You are trying to use semantics in an effort to discredit my entire point.. and that is simply a logical fallacy. I have checked the rest of the sources, and the fingertip pushups is the only feat with any kind of real evidence.  Gamezero05  talk  17:06, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

If you did know about the fingertip pushups and still chose to remove the sourced material, then that's vandalism and won't be tolerated. — Myasuda (talk) 17:08, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

No, I realized it after I deleted it, after you restored it, and while we were talking about it on this talk page, but before you asked me the question. Furthermore, you are clinging on to that one point in order to discredit the rest of my argument. The fingertip push-up thing was a mistake, I admit. Now what about the rest of the "feats"? Gamezero05  talk  18:20, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

Your "argument" is to trust you more than the cited sources. And at this time, I see no reason to do so. — Myasuda (talk) 18:57, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

No, my argument is that the cited sources are not legitimate sources at all. I have no problem with the feats and fight record being there if they were FACTS. But they are not. They are simply stories told by people close to him. Those are not things that should be in an encyclopedia. The stories may be true, or they may not be. The problem is that we just do not know. So it isn't "my argument" vs. "cited sources". It is an issue of fact vs. rumor. And excuse me for wanting an encyclopedia to be based on facts and not rumors.  Gamezero05  talk  19:27, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

Little change in the opening

"widely considered by many commentators, critics, media and other martial artists to be the most influential martial artist and pop culture icon of the 20th Century." There exist a documentary named "Bruce Lee Lives". It s an eight part show about different aspects ("Master", "Teacher", "Fighter", "Actor", "Individual" etc.) and you can see the opinions of many VIP s of different areas (commentators, media, other martial artist (including MMA)), considering BL as the "greatest" and "most influential" martial artist of all time. Here you can watch anything about it: http://www.fuel.tv/bruceleelives/ --Niten Doraku (talk) 13:07, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Who is Gary Elms?

This alleged person whom Bruce Lee allegedly beat in a real fight, "Gary Elms", is no where on boxrec.com. His very existence is unverifiable. Let alone his "championships". 70.58.13.223 (talk) 16:52, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Elms was a school boxer who never became a professional. That s why you can t find him @ boxrec. --Niten Doraku (talk) 12:55, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Bruce's fight record

Every single one of his "fights" are simply rumors and/or questionable accounts from people close to him, and are unverifiable. There are other people who completely refute the stories as revisionist grandeur, or say they are not entirely correct. Why are these stories and rumors posted on this encyclopedia? They should be removed immediately.  Gamezero05  talk  18:46, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

Well, in some points i agree with you. But first take a look on the page of Wong Shun Leung. If you want remove the "fight history" of Lee, you should remove the whole page of Wong first. Cheers --Niten Doraku (talk) 16:21, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

I haven't looked at his page. If it is similar to parts of this Bruce Lee page, then I agree with you. I don't have a vendetta against Bruce Lee, or Wong Shun Leung, or anybody. I simply came across this page and noticed the poor sources and hearsay. Just because one particular page like Wong Shun Leung's page has problems doesn't allow this Bruce Lee page to also have problems. That isn't a valid argument.  Gamezero05  talk  06:59, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Not even similar, you can say 80-90% is about something like "...he won over 60, maybe 100 street fights vs. various opponents from different styles". Take you 5 minutes time and take a look on his page. Like i said in some points i agree with you...but you know what s very strange to me? If people emerges who want to delet anything about Mr. Lee s feats or (street) fights, they are 99% of the combat sport scene (MMA, Boxing, K-1, etc.), why is that? Maybe it s a misunderstanding between "FIGHT RECORD" and "FIGHT HISTORY". Bruce Lee don t have a "FIGHT RECORD" because he wasn t a professional fighter, but he has - like other people - a history in street fighting. Maybe the best way would be to call the "fight history" as "reportedly street fight history" or something like that. Like you said, there is no proof those street fights took really place, but contrary there is no proof they didn´t happen. So the best way should be the middle...not delet at all, but change as "reportedly" or "questionable". Best Regards --Niten Doraku (talk) 12:50, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

I like MMA, but that is because I like martial arts. My uncle is a sifu under Dan Inosanto (who was a student under Bruce). I respect Bruce Lee and his legacy. However, I like factual information. His "fight history" isn't a real fight history. It is simply people close to him telling stories. Now, these stories may be true, or they may be false, or they may not be exactly as they are told.. they may be exaggerated. We don't know, as there is no proof. There are even people out there who claim to be witnesses who COMPLETELY REFUTE the things other witnesses said. Yet none of that information made it's way onto this article. It isn't even mentioned. Also, you don't have to have a "fight record" as a professional to have a fight history.. that is true. But, just because it's only a "fight history" and not a fight record doesn't mean there shouldn't be any evidence. For example, there is evidence of fights such as Helio Gracie vs. Kimura. This is an encyclopedia. This isn't the rumor mill. P.S... you can't prove a negative. It is impossible to prove that something DIDN'T happen... you can only prove that something DID happen. So the burden of proof is on those to prove that these things did happen. And word-of-mouth stories is NOT proof.  Gamezero05  talk  20:54, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

@Niten Doraku, actually, no. That is not how Wikipedia works. If you have proof then we mention the proof. If you don't we don't mention the proof. That's it, that's all. If you have some level of proof some reliable source that can present the figures in question then we will find a way to present that information. If all we have is some people saying "I've never known him to loose a fight" than that's all we can present. We cannot turn "I've never known him to loose a fight" into "He never lost a fight". WP doesn't do that. So let's take a look at the sources and see what they do, in fact, say. Padillah (talk) 13:21, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Jesse Glover death?

According to some sources, Lee s first USA student Jesse Glover died on cancer. Can someone help out with sources? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.97.93.136 (talk) 12:12, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

Names

I've always thought that "Bruce" was a Scottish name. A quick Google seems to confirm this, although I don't know how reliable the sources are. Can this be changed?62.117.200.168 (talk) 15:34, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

Why would this bear mentioning? This was a "throw-away" name given to him not by his mother or father or tradition but by a nurse as a way to simplify filling out paperwork. It has no bearing on him, his life, his talents, his fate, his history, his nationality, nothing. This would be seen simply as a way to lay false claim to his notability. What about his life would have changed had the name "Bruce" been of Greek origin? Nothing. He would still have been as talented and his life would have gone on exactly the same way. The national origin of his English name is of no consequence.

I apologize if the above rebuttal seems harsh. I have sat through too many arguments trying to use either Bruce or other show-biz stars to justify national identity. It borders on racism sometimes and it gets sickening. If you were asking in innocence than I do apologize for jumping the gun. Padillah (talk) 13:13, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

The reason I say this is because the article states: "The English name "Bruce" was thought to be given by the hospital attending physician, Dr. Mary Glover.", which I consider to be incorrect, as it's a Scottish name as far as I know, and I would correct it to "The Scottish name "Bruce"...". I'm just interested in correcting the existing information. Whether it should be included at all is a separate issue, but while it remains in the article, in my opinion it should be modified.109.232.208.11 (talk) 13:47, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

I think "English" in this context refers solely to the language - the suggestion being that he was somewhat Westernised perhaps? I don't know. Bruce has been used in a number of English-speaking places as a very popular first name, most notably Australia, so I think "English" is the most accurate term personally. 94.171.250.70 (talk) 08:46, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Sweat Glands

Anyone know if the rumour that Bruce Lee had his sweat glands 'cut'/'removed' is true?

I saw someone say that Dan Inosanto told them this was true in 1979, with 1972 as the year of the operation, and I hear it everywhere. Is it an urban legend? It certainly sounds like one... 94.171.250.70 (talk) 08:46, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 5 October 2012

"consonant" should be changed to "consummate" 173.70.21.110 (talk) 19:40, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

Done as this is only a grammar correction. —KuyaBriBri^Talk 20:18, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

Bruce Lee`s mother Grace Ho - Caucasion should be changed to more detailed "half German" — Preceding unsigned comment added by OOTheTruthforAllOo (talk • contribs) 03:37, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Here we go again (lead sentence)

I've been away from Wikipedia for a while but noticed that CityPride made edits to the lead sentence on September 4, removing all references to Lee's citizenship and related sources aside from declaring him "Hong Kongese." I propose removing all references to citzenship, ethinicity, or nationality from the lead until some sort of consensus can be reached (which I highly doubt, this issue has literally been debated for several years now). -Shaolin Samurai (talk) 11:14, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

Jun-fan or Jun Fon

Would this youtube link [3] prove that his name was actually Jun Fon and not Jun Fan (O vs. A)? The link has his birth certificate and other early naturalization papers, each spelling it with an O. --Mrcolj (talk) 19:12, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

Remove Picture in the opening Page?

The current picture doesn t look very serious (this one: http://www.mankind-magazin.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/enter-the-dragon.jpg). I would suggest this one would look much more serious (http://ck.kennt-wayne.de/uploads/bruce_lee_im_anzug.gif). --Niten Doraku (talk) 14:35, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 28 November 2012

Please change: The name homophonically means "return again", and was given to Lee given to Lee by his mother, who felt he would return to the United States once he came of age.

to: The name homophonically means "return again", and was given to Lee by his mother, who felt he would return to the United States once he came of age.

because there is an extra "given to Lee" in the paragraph. 108.60.119.125 (talk) 00:21, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

That was my fault, and I have now fixed it. Thanks for pointing it out! Evanh2008 ^{(talk|contribs)} 00:25, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

Edit Request: Nov 28th.

Minor change:

Although many of his peers decided to stay in the United States, Lee Hoi-chuen returned to Hong Kong after the Bruce's birth.

Remove the word "the" so it reads....

Although many of his peers decided to stay in the United States, Lee Hoi-chuen returned to Hong Kong after Bruce's birth. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.98.143.96 (talk) 02:20, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

Fixed. Thanks. Evanh2008 ^{(talk|contribs)} 02:24, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

Dates by wife's name

Would just like to point out that when reading the quick info on the sidebar the years in brackets represent birth and death - except his spouse's. While I understand from further investigation that those were the years they were married, without the investigation it looks like he married a 9 year old. Possibly putting some sort of notation of her birth and death in brackets and a second line to read "Married: years here"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.235.153.124 (talk) 05:00, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Incorrect mathematical values in the article

"Lee could land a punch in around five hundredths of a second (0.05 second) from 3 feet away, and from 5 feet away it was around eight hundredths of a second (0.08 second)."

that would be

Lee could land a punch in around five hundredths of a second (0.002 second) from 3 feet away, and from 5 feet away it was around eight hundredths of a second (0.00125 second). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.187.55.37 (talk) 17:25, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

You are mistaken. 0.05 is 5/100 or "five hundredths". 0.002 is 2/1000 or "two thousandths".

0.00125 is one eighth of a hundredth. 0.002 is one fifth of a hundredth. - SummerPhD (talk) 22:54, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 11 February 2013

Under the heading 'Physical Feats' there is a Wiki box stating 'This section relies largely or entirely upon a single source.' What could be added here is the information that there is well known film evidence of Bruce Lee actually carrying out some of these feats at the Long Beach Martial Arts Tournament in 1964, and these films are readily available on websites, including You Tube (although I know direct You Tube links to them are not allowed to be posted, mention of them could be made). The knowledge that there is film easily available to view of Lee carrying out some of these acts would help toward counteracting the current single-source problem. 109.170.220.22 (talk) 17:27, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made.  TOW  talk  18:52, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Please provide evidence Gary Elms existed.

Please provide evidence this champion boxer Gary Elms existed. That's all I ask. 76.120.17.197 (talk) 02:08, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

Elms is sourced in the article. If you have a problem with that, you'll need to explain. - SummerPhD (talk) 03:19, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

The issue we have is in the section of the article talking about Bruce Lee's physical feats. There are basically only two sources being used. One source is from a self-published book by Jesse Glover, who was a friend and student of Bruce, who makes some extraordinary claims about him. He was also shown to give two different accounts of one of his claims. The other source is from a book by John Little. Little did not know Bruce Lee. He makes extraordinary claims in his book but lists no source as to where he got his information. The dispute here is that one editor thinks these are questionable sources, while the other editor finds them to be acceptable. 16:28, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Bruce Lee's Feats

The books which these feats are taken from do not source where they got the information. The authors of these books did not know Bruce Lee. So for the information in the books to be valid, the authors would have had to source where they got the information from. Yet they do not. The authors of the books could have simply made up the information, as there is no other record of these feats.

Furthermore, if these feats have numbers, like a kick being "0.8" seconds, then that is information that should be documented in writing, like how 100 meter dash times for sprinters are documented.

If there is no legitimate documentation, how can these things be put on this encyclopedic article as fact just because somebody wrote a book, even when that book does not give any sources of it's own?

I think these things should be removed until somebody can provide legitimate documentation.  Gamezero05  talk  22:10, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

We don't generally look at sources that way. The question isn't whether or not the source cites its sources (after all, where would those sources have gotten their info from? Turtles all the way down...). Instead, we determine whether it is a reliable source. If it is, we use it. If not, we don't. Do you feel the source meets our guidelines? Why or why not? - SummerPhD (talk) 23:58, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

According to WP:NOTRELIABLE, the sources are no good. Here is what it says: "Questionable sources are those that have a poor reputation for checking the facts, lack meaningful editorial oversight, or have an apparent conflict of interest.[7] Such sources include websites and publications expressing views that are widely considered by other sources to be extremist or promotional, or that rely heavily on rumor and personal opinion. Questionable sources should only be used as sources of material on themselves, especially in articles about themselves; see below. They are not suitable sources for contentious claims about others." Also, here: http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Wikipedia:NOTRELIABLE#Verifiability_does_not_guarantee_inclusion , it says "information must be verifiable in order to be included in an article..." These "feats" are not verifiable other than the single source which makes these claims. And finally, WP:REDFLAG states that "exceptional claims require multiple high-quality sources". The source used is where these claims came from, and none of them can be verified in any way. The author of the book that made these claims has never even seen Bruce Lee in person. This isn't a "first-hand account" from a witness. It is a random author making extraordinary claims and no other sources can be found. It's a bad source.  Gamezero05  talk  00:49, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

You say "not verifiable other than the single source" and "no other sources can be found", but some of the claims have multiple references. You also say that "This isn't a first-hand account" from a witness. Well, not only is that not a criterion for reliability, but note that the Glover sourced entry is a first-hand account. — Myasuda (talk) 01:27, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Some have multiple sources, but they all come from the same original source that cannot be verified.  Gamezero05  talk  01:37, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

You say "they all come from the same original source" which is wrong. Glover is independent of Little and Little does not rely on solely on Glover (e.g., for the pull-ups, he relies on George Lee, who has made the same statement for Black Belt Magazine). So let's see . . . not only were you wrong here, but you were wrong in your blanket statement earlier that the "authors of these books did not know Bruce Lee" (Glover was a student), and I showed that you were wrong in your earlier thread Talk:Bruce Lee/Archive 6#This article is filled with a bunch of bull when you claimed "There is no proof that any of that is true. None of it is documented anywhere" (the two-finger push-ups, you later admitted were legitimate, and should not have been summarily deleted by you from the article). So you talk about verifiability, but it's clear that you are the one with a penchant for making unreliable statements. — Myasuda (talk) 03:00, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

I was speaking in generalities, and mainly talking about Little's book. But I will go through each "feat" one by one to clear up any confusion.

1. Land a punch in around five hundredths (0.05) of a second from 3 ft. (glover p. 53-54)(Little p. 21). Jesse Glover was one of Bruce Lee's students, and thus is a conflict of interest according to WP:REDFLAG for unreliable sources. In Little's book, he simply quotes Glover. So this all goes back to Glover, the lone source. And it is not a reliable source.

2. Hold a 75 lb (34 kg) barbell elbows locked, arms outstretched, for several seconds. (Little p. 12 and p. 22). There is nothing on page 12 talking about this. So that is a fake source. But on page 22, Little makes the claim, but gives nothing supporting this claim. He didn't know Bruce Lee, and he never quoted anybody who did know him or see him perform this feat. It is no different than if I make some claim. It is not a reliable source.

3. In a speed demonstration, he could snatch a dime off a person's open palm before they could close it, and leave a penny behind. (Little p. 71). Guess what? There is nothing about this on page 71. This is a fake source 100%. It's not in Little's book. Somebody on Wikipedia just made it up and added a fake source to make it look credible.

4. Perform one-hand push-ups using only the thumb and index finger. (Little p. 22) (Steve Webb documentary). This one is legit. There is actual video of him doing this. And not surprisingly, this is the most "human" of his feats. A feat which many people can do.

5. Perform 50 reps of one-arm chin-ups. (Little p. 108). Little actually provides a source for this claim. However, his source is Bruce Lee's friend and workout partner, George Lee. The problem with this is that this creates a conflict of interest according to WP:REDFLAG. It is not a reliable source. Also, considering the Guiness world record holder for most one-arm chin-ups in one minute, George Gaydardzhiev, can only do 10 in a row before having to stop and collect himself, it's fantasy to think Bruce Lee could do 50.

6. Side kick 300 lb (140 kg) bags so that they hit the ceiling. (Little p. 22). Once again, he gives no source for this claim. And he never knew Bruce Lee, so he has never seen him do this. So where did he get the information? Not a legitimate source at all.

7. Hold an elevated v-sit position for 30 minutes or longer. (The Intercepting Fist dvd). I have not seen this dvd. But considering I know gymnasts and they laugh at this notion, I have no doubt it is another very exaggerated claim. But I would have to see the dvd to really say anything about the source.  Gamezero05  talk  15:57, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Just because Glover and George Lee knew Bruce Lee does not establish a conflict of interest per WP:COI. The itemized claims could be rewritten to make it clear that this is anecdotal information and have the reader determine what to believe. But they certainly don't qualify for deletion.

Also, you failed to establish that Little's source does not meet WP:RS. Little has conducted numerous interviews with persons with first-hand knowledge of Lee. What evidence do you have that he's being dishonest? So what if Little did not actually know Lee personally? If he did, you would whine about "conflict of interest".

And just a little searching would show you that the "feats" Little has written about have also been written about elsewhere. Inosanto writes about the kicking of the heavy bag in the January 1994 issue of Black Belt Magazine and Wallly Jay writes about it the January 1997 issue of the same publication. The dime story is a well known one, and can be found in "Words of the Dragon: Interviews, 1958-1973" by Little, for example. — Myasuda (talk) 12:54, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

WP:COI has do do with behavior of editors... not sources. WP:REDFLAG is specifically about sources. So citing WP:COI is irrelevant to our discussion.  Gamezero05  talk  15:35, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Here is PROOF that the sources are exaggerated and are not reliable. Let's take Jesse Glover's claim that Bruce Lee could "land a punch in five hundredths of a second from 3 feet", according to his book from 1976 called "Bruce Lee Between Win Chun and Jeet Kune Do", which is sourced on this Wiki page. Yet in an interview with Black Belt Magazine in 1994, Glover states, "Let me tell you something, we timed his closing speed back in the early '60's. When the light flashed, Bruce closed from a distance of three feet away from the pad - with his hands at his hips - and hit the pad in one three-hundredth of a second!" So the very source that you are saying is so credible, is caught red-handed exaggerating his already exaggerated claims. Here is the link to the Black Belt Magazine article (his quote is on the right column): http://books.google.com/books?id=EdIDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA22&lpg=PA24&dq=joe+lewis+bruce+lee+black+belt+magazine&source=bl&ots=W-r_6iiAfz&sig=P6GwRv0zpkrQMbsqczHMjzWhwzI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=k1WaUei1NMPvqQG2m4HADw&ved=0CEoQ6AEwBTgK#v=onepage&q=joe%20lewis%20bruce%20lee%20black%20belt%20magazine&f=false  Gamezero05  talk  17:07, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Out of curiosity, are there any wikipedians out there who has a copy of Glover's book and can say exactly what he wrote down? At any rate, I would suspect that the book, written more than 18 years before the interview, would contain the more accurate recollection. — Myasuda (talk) 00:56, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

I have the book. I will post exactly what he said in a little while. I have both Glover and Little's books. That is how I was able to go feat by feat above and check the page numbers. And to your second point, you are just guessing. The "source" has given two different accounts... and not surprisingly the legend has grown as time has passed. It is what happens with friends of people who get turned into a mythical-type figure. They feed the fire and grow the legend and exaggerate the stories the more they tell them. And some "witnesses" just straight-up lie for various reasons.  Gamezero05  talk  02:09, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Here are scanned in images of the paragraphs from Glover's book: http://oi41.tinypic.com/2032id.jpg  Gamezero05  talk  04:26, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Good. Then the article accurately reflects the cited source. And in spite of what you think, your "bombshell discovery" does not invalidate the book as a source. Are there any other persons who would like to weigh in on this discussion? — Myasuda (talk) 12:58, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

The source is a liar. And I already showed the source is not reliable based on WP:REDFLAG. This is an encyclopedia which is based in fact... not exaggerated stories from Bruce's own hype men. Bruce's friends would be acceptable sources if talking about Bruce personally. But they are not proper sources when extraordinary claims are made. There needs to be many sources with no conflicts of interest.  Gamezero05  talk  15:56, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

• No one ever measured anything for any official records? That is rather odd. Guinness Book of World Records should've recorded some things. The television show Mythbusters claimed it was plausible for the One-inch punch to exist. Dream Focus 18:14, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

The one inch punch does exist. There is video. But what is fake is when people say when he does the one inch punch the guy he punched flies 15 feet through the air. The one inch punch is a little trick more than a feat. He has a guy stand with both feet shoulder width apart and he uses his body and his locked-out arm to push the guy in his chest which makes him fall down. He doesn't fly 15 feet through the air, and you or me could do the exact same thing.  Gamezero05  talk  20:16, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

There is no specific question asked. This will make it very hard for you to get outside input. Due to this I'm just making one preliminary comment. The wp:rs criteria (that some are referring to above) just sets a "floor". In order to determine whether a source is actually reliable you will need to explore whether or not the source is objective and knowledgeable with respect to the items with cited it. North8000 (talk) 22:25, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

• COMMENT - IMO most, if not all, of this is irrelevant. Biographical articles on WP do not need this level of detail. Leave that to the actual biographical books written about the person. The article should be a simple summary of the person's life supported by verifiable facts. IMO it should be interesting, but not overly detailed. Keep the article simple and within WP:Bio guidelines, list the books, and move on. --Scalhotrod - Just your average banjo playing, drag racing, cowboy... (talk) 01:44, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

• Trim - To North's point, above, I noted that these two books with source contentions are not the only ones used for this article. The Bruce Thomas book, for one. A quick search brought up two different NYT articles on Lee's legacy. My take? Trim out the drilled-down specifics that don't have an additional cite and broaden the scope of the article to reflect what reliable sources like NYT say about Lee's life & notability. -- EBY (talk) 00:16, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

So the general consensus here is that parts of this article like the "physical feats" section should be removed because it is overly-detailed and is only supported by a single source? And to broaden the article, rely on more reliable sources like the NYT for information about Lee's life and legacy? Is that correct?  Gamezero05  talk  02:08, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

The section should stay. This sort of thing is one of the types of things he is known for. It's of encyclopedic interest to readers, and very closely related to his principal notability. If he were know, say, primarily as a poet, they might be irrelevant, but he's primarily a performer of physical feats in a variety of athletic and artistic settings, and they details of what he can physically accomplish,or even is widely reported as being able to be physically accomplish, is appropriate content. We'renot responsible for reporting them accurately;l we're responsible for reporting accurately what the sources say about them. DGG ( talk ) 01:48, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

I agree. They're being deleted under a spurious rationale and I question if the person deleting them understands what Wikipedia is? Saying "they belong in an autobiography and not Wikipedia" is nonsensical. If he suspects the sources don't satisfy WP:RS then he should query the Reliable Sources Noticeboard. There's no reason whatsoever to delete that info, in fact doing so makes the article much worse. - Who is John Galt? ✉ 16:11, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Feat Nr. 2 was confiremd by the late Karate Legend Joe Lewis (martial artist). Here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5R5CoqaIhhs&#t=2m59s (3:00 - 3:45) --Niten Doraku (talk) 14:04, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

Martial Arts Lineage

This section does not show Bruce Lee's martial arts lineage. I'm going to update it all the way back to the founders of Wing Chun... as it should be.  Gamezero05  talk  17:21, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 24 July 2013

Please add that Bruce Lee attended Garfield High School in Seattle. My source is from the Seattle Times. The web address is: http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=20030527&slug=spotlight27 Thank you!

Ireneobien (talk) 02:01, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Done. However, it would be nice to know how long Lee attended Garfield; if it was only for a short time, it may not be noteworthy. The wording in that section is a bit awkward, and a rewrite with more sources is indicated. Rivertorch (talk) 20:43, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 21 July 2013

The Chinese name of Bruce Lee is "little small dragon". The phonetic pronunciation of that is "xiu long". His name is Lee Xiu Long, not Lee Jun Fan 98.223.133.100 (talk) 11:52, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Rivertorch (talk) 05:24, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 27 August 2013

"Lee's erudition expanded in any field that required pure human expression." This sentence is meaningless puffery and should be deleted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.156.136.229 (talk) 13:33, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Done. Rivertorch (talk) 20:20, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 19 September 2013

In order to link to the appropriate page, please change the link for "Capitol Hill" in the "New Life In America" section to Capitol Hill (Seattle). It currently links to Capitol Hill, Washington, D.C. 206.112.75.238 (talk) 19:44, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Done. Thanks! Rivertorch (talk) 20:16, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

possible additions to filmography

Bruce Lee was also in two Hong Kong films as a child, The Birth of Mankind in 1946, and My Son A-Chang in 1950: cf. http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/The_Kid_(1950_film). Should these be added to the filmography list, and/or discussed in the section on Lee's childhood?Chajin2 (talk) 14:49, 1 October 2013 (UTC)chajin2

Instructors

Bruce Lee never certified James Lee and Taky Kimura to teach JKD (as the diagram on the page states). They were instructors of Jun Fan Gung Fu. Dan Innosanto was ranked 3rd Rank in JKD, and was an assistant instructor. The only other person to achieve a ranking status in JKD was Ted Wong, who achieved 2nd Rank in JKD.98.110.145.53 (talk) 02:53, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

bruce lee

i have the 5 discs collection dvd .i play the film and the akas and the dates are switched. when i play fist of fury 1971 it says aka chinese connection on the film screen.but the end credits say 1972.when i play the big boss it says aka fist of fury.1971 but credits say 1972.enter says 1973 in intro and stays enter the dragon.game of death says filmed in 1973 but the film it self says release in 1978. maybe because of the death.66.177.71.127 (talk) 06:58, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 February 2014

94.123.201.238 (talk) 21:31, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

 Not done No request made Arjayay (talk) 21:44, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 February 2014 Bruce Lee

Bruce Lee: Kung Fu Art Life exhibition produced by the Hong Kong Heritage Museum and presented by the Leisure and Cultural Services Department jointly organised by the Hong Kong Heritage Museum and Bruce Lee Enterprises. Exhibition showing from 2013 - 2018.

Mattemond (talk) 04:55, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

Not done: Please cite reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to any article. - Arjayay (talk) 15:45, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

edit request

In the early life section there's a ) with no corresponding (. "Grace Ho was purportedly half-German Catholic,[15]) and she may have been adopted.[16]" right after the [15]98.243.94.83 (talk) 23:14, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

Bruce Lee "Chinese Name"

Under the title "Bruce Lee" it says "This is a Chinese name. The family name is Lee"

That the "family name" of Bruce Lee is not surprising. That this comes after being told that Bruce Lee is a Chinese name is what is surprising. I think this is a misuse of the template, since "Bruce Lee" isn't a Chinese name, and the family name is in the Western position. Silas Maxfield (talk) 20:48, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

Bruce lee photograph

Is it possible to upload the Bruce Lee photograph (BruceLeecard.jpg) to the Wikimedia Commons section? I want the photograph to be available for other language Wikipedia articles. In the past I tried this myself, but it got deleted because of copyright issues. Anyone, who could be helpful here? --Gyte75 (talk) 07:12, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

I think the answer is NO. If you look at the licensing for the picture it is 'non-free' and used under fair-use provisions. I am not an expert here but I believe that Commons can only accept totally free ie. public domain pictures. The WP: Teahouse or WP: Village pump may be a better venue for a more definite answer. - 220 of ^Borg 13:28, 22 March 2014 (UTC)

Chronological Re-ordering?

The chronological order of this article is kind of hard to understand. Might I suggest a re-organisation? 76.79.82.50 (talk) 17:35, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 December 2014

Caption (under Death) "Bruce Lee is buried next to his son Brandon in Lakeview Cemetery, Seattle." Change to something like "Bruce Lee is buried in Lakeview Cemetery, Seattle. His son Brandon is buried next to him." 193.40.251.4 (talk) 13:59, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

 Done: [4]. G S Palmer (talk • contribs) 14:13, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 January 2015

<! Begin request --> Please changeUnder Wing Chun: "Lee began training in Wing Chun when he was 13 and not 16. Also under Wing Chun: Lee showed a keen interest in Wing Chun and continued to train privately with Yip Man and Wong Shun Leung in 1955. Well, that means his age will be either 14 or 15 so how could he begin training at 16? Henryrhee47 (talk) 19:52, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

References

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made - The book or newspaper you've added could be fake for all we know, Cheers, –Davey2010 ^{Merry Xmas / Happy New Year} 19:53, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

"The Legend of Bruce Lee" was probably the first book to be published about Bruce Lee in 1974 and many people, authors, writers, magazines, newspapers, etc. get their information from this book. It's a reliable source and not a fake.

Semi-protected edit request on 6 January 2015

Under fitness and nutrition: His height is 5 ft 7.5 in and not 5 ft 8 in.

Under New life in America: Lee enrolled at the University of Washington, majoring in philosophy and not drama. Probably didn't file paper work to formally change his major from drama to philosophy because he did not graduate. But you have to take his word of mouth as the truth. It's been a well known fact he majored in philosophy until Wikipedia came and stated differently. The legend of Bruce Lee by Alex Ben Block, 1974 Dell; Live interview with Bruce Lee and Alex Ben Block 1972

References

Henryrhee47 (talk) 21:24, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(e • t • c)} 21:42, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 March 2015

This request is made regarding Bruce Lee's mother Grace Ho, under the section "Early life". I am not a confirmed or auto confirmed user and have zero edits but would like to request someone review my request and make the edit accordingly. Please change the text "Specifically, Grace Ho was purportedly a half-German Catholic,[15] and may have been adopted.[16] " to the new text "Specifically, Grace Ho has stated that her father was Chinese, and her mother was an English woman who died in Shanghai in 1934." The source for the information about Grace's racial background is from a 1941 interview conducted by the INS, in which Grace answered the question about her mother's racial heritage. The source information can be found here in pages 6 and 7 specifically of the digital document of the INS interview held by the National Archives and Records Administration. http://media.nara.gov/pacific/san-francisco/296477/12017-53752-Lee-Bruce_cite.pdf Please also note that the source #16 in the existing article regarding adoption is a dead link and there is no evidence of adoption in Grace's own testimony about her parents. Thank you Cmdevillier (talk) 07:08, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

References

Bruce Lee's wife, Linda Lee says in her book, "Bruce's mother... was half German and a Catholic..." (page 20 of [5]). What are your thoughts on that? However I've removed the adoption thing because of the poor sourcing. Stickee (talk) 07:36, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

Yes I have seen the page in the book where Linda writes that Bruce's mother was half German. There is no source citation for this, whether it came from Bruce's mouth or from his mother's. The National Archives source I provided is actually a legal document that has Bruce's mother answering the question of her mother's heritage very straightforward and with no mention of being German, but fully English. This is a primary source. Linda Cadwell is a secondary or tertiary source. The interview source I provided was conducted in 1941, before Linda was even born. Grace has no reason relevant to INS questioning to lie about her mother's heritage, as by 1941, her mother is already deceased for seven years. I cannot find the earliest mention of anyone in the family being German, but it is definitely a rumor that is accepted as fact, though there is no source for it, it's just a statement often repeated in one variation or another. Being that the National Archives interview is a much older first hand source, I believe it is more credible than contemporary interpretations or rumors without source material. The only way anyone would know anything beyond the 1941 interview from Grace is if one of Bruce's surviving siblings provided reliable information about their mother, or a DNA test showing 3/4 chinese heritage and 1/4 specific English or German heritage. Without that, I believe grace's own interview instead of second or third hand unsourced information. Thanks. Cmdevillier (talk) 06:08, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

Hi Cmdevillier, you wrote that "The interview source I provided was conducted in 1941, before Linda was even born. Grace has no reason relevant to INS questioning to lie about her mother's heritage, as by 1941, her mother is already deceased for seven years." I'd like to point out that the overwhelming reason to possibly omit mention full or partial German heritage is that in 1941 most of the Western world was at war with Germany, and the U.S. was teetering on the brink of joining that war. Bruce's mother does not state in the interview that her mother was "fully English", she simply states, through an interpreter, "My father is Chinese and my mother is English." [Which also would have been a convenient story to explain her (pseudo?) Chinese maiden surname.] At this point, Linda Lee [6] is an equally if not more reliable source than a would-be immigrant [who probably/possibly originally lied when entering the country in 1939], trying to bring their son into the U.S. in 1941. The best Wikipedia could possibly do (but probably should not given the unreliable nature of the source -- after all it's not a birth certificate, and I can find no reliable secondary sources that dis-confirm her German ancestry) is quote both sources; we cannot remove the statement that his mother was part German, because that is likely the most accurate. Especially since WP:PRIMARY sources are deprecated on Wikipedia in favor of secondary sources. In fact, there are numerous other reliable sources (books) that state that Bruce's mother was German and Chinese: [7], [8]. My recommendation is to ignore the mother's under-duress interview and use reliable secondary sources, some of which I have provided in the links. -- Softlavender (talk) 07:24, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

Hi, I'm aware of the advantage of distancing one from German heritage in regards to WWII events and. However, Grace was born in China and lived in Hong Kong (Hong Kong being a colony of Britain), and, both China and Hong Kong were allies with the United States. There's nothing about her potential German heritage, especially with her potential German mother being deceased, that would make her obviously dedicated to helping the German war effort. Further, the 1941 interview is an exit interview, not an entry/immigration interview. It is clear from reading the interview what the purpose is and what the events discussed are. Bruce Lee was born in San Francisco, California, and at the age of three months, he is being taken with his parents back to Hong Kong where they spent their lives together, before temporarily working in San Francisco. They are not trying to gain citizenship for themselves or for any of their older children. They are simply establishing that Bruce was in fact born in the U.S. and would like for him to have the option to return to the U.S. if he so chose to at a later date because he has citizenship by birth. Further, Grace never had intentions to be an immigrant or to remain the U.S. for any extended period. She was strictly in the U.S. for temporary work and had already attested to that in 1939. You may read that paperwork here:

I don't find Grace to be "under duress" during her interview. The part about the interpreter is standard. All of these interviews were conducted with the help of interpreters employed by the U.S. government or else there would be no way for the interview to happen. In fact there were many people who were interviewed and found to be lying, regardless of whether they had an interpreter. These interviews (there are hundreds of thousands of them for Chinese people who traveled in and out of the U.S.) were required by the government before the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882 was repealed. Please familiarize with the history of Chinese immigration and emigration history in the United States as related to the files held by the National Archives and Records Administration here .

I am not convinced Grace was German because the mentions of her German heritage in books do not have source material about this. Linda (Bruce's wife) does not provide a source. I would fully believe secondary and tertiary sources if they actually had citations for the German claim. Please direct me to one that proves her German heritage beyond a statement without citation or hearsay.

Also, in response to Grace's name be "pseudo Chinese", she is known by both "Grace" and "Ho Oi Yu" or in Chinese "何愛瑜". She signs her Chinese name on her papers already sourced from the interview and is known as a member of the famous Ho/Ho Tung family of Hong Kong, her father being Mr. Ho Kom Tong. Cmdevillier (talk) 18:57, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

References

Hi Cmdevillier, if you would, in the future please indent (each paragraph of) your posts with colons so they nest properly under the post you are replying to. Also, as in any internet posting, double-space between your paragraphs. I have done that for your posts so far. Preview before you save your post so you can view and check the indents. Unfortunately, your evidence is non-admissable because it is WP:PRIMARY, from the subject (who wrote in Chinese and had an interpreter), and inconclusive. It is not matched by any reliable source. If you had an official birth certificate for Bruce's mother, that might be one thing, because if official and reliable and untampered with it might not have been influenced by her. An overwhelming number of secondary-source reliable sources, many of them published before Linda Lee's book, discuss Bruce's German ancestry, and indeed his mother's full name, birth city information, and parentage, in detail, and mention how the German ancestry interfered with Bruce's martial arts training in his youth. Softlavender (talk) 00:44, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

In comparison of primary and secondary sources, what about Wikipedia's guidelines on using primary sources carefully? "You are allowed to use primary sources... carefully[edit]...Material based on primary sources can be valuable and appropriate additions to articles...Primary sources may only be used on Wikipedia to make straightforward, descriptive statements that any educated person—with access to the source but without specialist knowledge—will be able to verify are directly supported by the source. This person does not have to be able to determine that the material in the article or in the primary source is True™. The goal is only that the person could compare the primary source with the material in the Wikipedia article, and agree that the primary source actually, directly says just what we're saying it does." [9]

Would it not be helpful for readers to see that most sources claim a partial German heritage for Grace, although she herself has not been shown to corroborate that? The interview is still a legal federally created document, which in my opinion is a "reliable" document. Perhaps the text in question could be changed from "Specifically, Grace Ho was purportedly a half-German Catholic." to "Specifically, Grace Ho was purportedly a half-German Catholic. However, Grace has self-identified as being half or part English on her mother's side" and let the readers have source citations for both so that they can use it to do their own research and formulating of opinions? Would this align with the guidelines above "This person does not have to be able to determine that the material in the article or in the primary source is True™. The goal is only that the person could compare the primary source with the material in the Wikipedia article, and agree that the primary source actually, directly says just what we're saying it does"? Basically, there is a primary source available. The interview is not fabricated. The two conflicting sources can be interpreted by readers.Cmdevillier (talk) 06:19, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

any feedback on my most recent message above please, thanks Cmdevillier (talk) 16:05, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

Hong Kong American

A Hong Kong American is "an American of Hong Kong descent." Bruce was born in American from Hong Kong parents. Maybe propose alternative wording, but the edit I reverted is because I believe it resulted in a version that did not include Bruce's heritage. WP:OPENPARA Alrich44 (talk) 15:20, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 June 2015

Under the Filmography table, please remove "2015 Ip Man 3 Himself Bruce Lee will be recreated using CGI" because Bruce Lee will NOT be appearing in Ip Man 3. My name is Christina Nahas and I am the Director of Licensing and Business Affairs at Bruce Lee Enterprises, LLC. Please contact me with any questions. Bruceleeenterprises (talk) 18:54, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

Apparently this claim is disputed: [10] Stickee (talk) 23:38, 29 June 2015 (UTC) Stickee (talk) 23:38, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

His last unreleased moive

His last movie, which was unreleased except in Burma, finished production in 1973 two weeks before his death. This movie won "Best Movie" of the year in Burma Film Festival in 1973. Douglas Eivind Hall, stage name "Doug Eivind", had a small role at the age of four. He played Bruce Lee´s adopted son in this martial arts, zombie, horror movie. Douglas Hall was so sad at the news of Bruce Lee´s death that he gave up professional acting and donated one hundred percent of his earnings from the profit of this movie to a charity organization in Laos. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Eleanoraduse (talk • contribs) 14:13, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

Hobby of Bruce Lee

Sockpuppet of User:Need1521/community banned User:Crazy1980.

I suggest find an info about hobby of Bruce Lee (music, films and something like this). This can be Elvis, for example (very interesting material). Fighter Lion (talk) 22:22, 22 July 2015 (UTC) Blocked by mistake user made very great work on this issue, somebody can put the material into the article (with removal of not needed words). By which way this admirer of martial arts can have relation to the Church .. The Patriarch wrote the work on judo master (martial arts). Favourite songs of Bruce Lee were: My Way (Frank Sinatra); And When I Die (Blood, Sweat & Tears); Look Around from Look Around (Sérgio Mendes album). Confirmation is here (during the funeral sounded the same songs). And this: The Impossible Dream (Tom Jones). 95.29.145.129 (talk) 12:42, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

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Accuracy issue in "Long Beach International Karate Championships"

[11]

Aircorn please explain why this is undue and unreliable? I can't see a reason for undue if the source is reliable (if the source is correct then the rest of the section is factually inaccurate and should be deleted). I'd like to see an explanation on why the source is unreliable. Banedon (talk) 06:23, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

• pls see Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources .... if reliable published sources do not include the information that you have found only at some random website, then that information is—by definition—not important enough to include.--Moxy (talk) 11:03, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

  The source is less the website than the video given in the website. In that video, someone who is clearly Vic Moore talks about the incident and makes his claims. The video is recent (dated 2013), so there is reason why Uyehara did not mention it. In any case, if the source is unreliable, then the article Vic Moore is in trouble because the same source is cited there, and that article comes under WP:BLP. Banedon (talk) 11:33, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

The first sentence lists him as a "philosopher"...

Come on now. (Also the reference link is broken) 69.201.166.50 (talk) 08:52, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

"Chinatown"

Is there a reason why "Chinatown" is listed as his place of birth? Shouldn't it be removed? "San Francisco, California" should be sufficient. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Satanstorm (talk • contribs) 16:10, 17 June 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 July 2016

"Bruce also instructed several World Karate Champions including Chuck Norris, Joe Lewis, and Mike Stone. Between the three of them, during their training with Bruce, they won every karate championship in the United States.[92]", Bruce Lee Wikipedia page.

The above statement is wrong. Both Chuck Norris and Joe Lewis were champions before they met Bruce. Chuck was a champion before he met Bruce in 1972. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7R3G81YnV38 The above video is a direct interview of Joe Lewis. He stated clearly that Bruce had no credentials and only came to workout with him[Joe] and Chuck to hype up his profile so that he can brag and claim later that he trained with champions. This is directly in contrast to the claim on the above statement in Bruce Lee's Wikipedia page. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mcl81ldNODc On the video above, Chuck said that he was a professional fighter but Bruce was not. If anyone was a student, then it's got to be Bruce because he was only training and not a practical fighter. Besides, who studies 2 years of wing chun and then teaches real professional fighting champions how to fight? That is not real history but created make believe history. It is better not to mention it at all or to say that they trained together at one point. The facts are not reflecting the statements above. Dmiller9141 (talk) 22:54, 4 July 2016 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. DSCrowned^(talk) 13:13, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

Cause of Death

A couple factors which may have contributed to Bruce Lee's death.

1. "Removing the venom" from extremely poisonous snakes does not necessarily mean that it was done thoroughly enough and that all the venom was removed or that the "venom sacks" didn't heal back.

2. One common symptom of poisonous snake bites is brain swelling. Could have been exacerbated by the blows to the head during training.

3. Like cannabis, if a poison settles into the body fat, it can be released again at a later date, weeks or months later when a person is hungry or fasting and the body processes fat cells. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1.10.216.88 (talk) 09:05, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

4. Chuck Norris is better than Bruce Lee. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.156.137.205 (talk) 14:14, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

I can't help but notice that in the section on "controversy surrounding death" no mention is made of the fact that several of his close associates, including the last people to see him alive lied about where he was when he died. Then later, by reviewing ambulance dispatch records, the media exposed that he actually died at the apartment of an actress who hung out with him on set all the time. Yeah... so there's that... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.142.246.221 (talk) 16:38, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 August 2016

Bruce Lee was of Jewish descent from his mother (Ho family's) side. The Ho brothers were sons of the Jewish man Charles Maurice Bosman. Source: http://www.clement-jones.com/ps02/ps02_340.htm Please add category "People of Jewish descent" to the article.Lemerex (talk) 05:28, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

Not done: It appears you will be autoconfirmed in 2-3 days, at which point, you will be able to make the edit. Please remember to keep WP:RS in mind. — Andy W. (talk · ctb) 01:54, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 September 2016

Bruce considered himself a martial artist by choice and actor by profession. He also learned Choy Li Fut, the Jing Wu sets and Tan Tui.

2600:1017:B82B:A8E6:C8B1:41AA:32E2:2925 (talk) 02:47, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Topher385 (talk) 09:38, 18 September 2016 (UTC)