Talk:Argzim Redžović

Ethnicity

The Article says he is a Montenegrin by nationality, but born to ethnic Albanian parents. The template Albanians in Montengro is just for this. Montenegrin people of Albanian descend would be for people like Petar Perkolić or Marko Miljanov. @Golikom. Alltan (talk) 09:21, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

The Article says he is a Montenegrin by nationality, but born to ethnic Albanian parents. The category Montenegrins of Albanian descent is just for this. Golikom (talk) 09:37, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

That is wrong actually, the category Albanians in Montenegro is for that. What you're talking about is people from Montenegro who are of Albanian origin, but are ethnically Serbian/Montenegrin/Bosniak/Croat. Alltan (talk) 10:05, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

That's nonsense. Golikom (talk) 10:55, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

Read WP:CIVIL. This is how this category has been used and it has been the consensus for quite some time. Try articulation yourself a little more. Alltan (talk) 11:08, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

I'm not being uncivil. You second statement is nonsense. Where is there anything here about ethnically Serbian/Montenegrin/Bosniak/Croat?

This is simply basic English. He is a Montenegrin national . He is of Albanian descent through his parents. Therefore he belongs in the category Montenegrins of Albanian descent. WP:OTHER misuse of the category does not equal consensus. Golikom (talk) 11:57, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

That would make perfect sense where it not for the fact we already have a category for ethnic Albanians from Montenegro. Montenegrin can mean 2 different things be it nationality or ethnicity. You keep ignoring this simple fact. You can’t act like that category doesn’t exist. That’s that, I suggest you revet yourself. Alltan (talk) 12:14, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

And the clearest meaning of the category is Montengrins (i.e. Redžović) of Albanian parentage or descent (i.e. Redžović). I Suggest you stop trying to push POV ethnicity edits that are contra to very clear category descriptions. Golikom (talk) 12:18, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

Why are you so mad? Insult me all you want my guy, Argzim Redzovic isnt an ethnic Montenegrin. Putting his name in parentheses doesn’t mean anything. Although I’m glad you basically admit then that because he’s an ethnic Montengrin of Albanian descent, the category should stay there. The point you seem to refuse to acknowledge is that he isn’t Montenegrin ethnically.

But nahh keep casting aspersions instead, maybe that’s better than actually researching a subject. Alltan (talk) 12:29, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

I've never argued he's ethnically Montenegrin. He is a Montenegrin national of Albanian descent... like, y'know, the category you keep trying to reomve. Golikom (talk) 12:46, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

The correct category for that is Albanians in Montenegro. That one is already in the article. And you said: "the category is Montengrins (i.e. Redžović)" why put his name in parenthesis? His surname having a slavic suffix doesn't matter to this discussion. Alltan (talk) 13:00, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

He's in brackets because he's the example we're talking about. It's nothing to do with his surname - again something I've never raised.

Is he a Montenegrin national? Yes

Is he of Albanian descent? Yes Golikom (talk) 13:08, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

He is not just of Albanian descent, he is an Albanian national of Montenegro. Therefore the category Albanians in Montenegro. What's so confusing? Alltan (talk) 13:11, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

These categories are not exclusive - hence I've made no argument about removing him from that one.

The whole claim of him being Albanian is unsourced in a BLP anyway and could unilaterally be removed - though I'll just tag it. Golikom (talk) 13:20, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

There are people from Montenegro who were of Albanian descent but do not identify as such. Marko Miljanov was of Albanian descent but he was not an Albanian. That is why the categories have to differentiate to an extent.

I will add a source to the article about him still being an Albanian. Even though it does fall under BLUESKY. Alltan (talk) 13:25, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

WP:OTHER is not an argument, and it's ridiculous to use a 19th century example here, even if in fact it exactly proves the point I'm making.

Ethnicity is not BLUESKY, especially when the nationality is different Golikom (talk) 13:33, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

WPOTHER does not apply, there's plenty of more examples like him. Petar Perkolic for example. For people familiar with the ethnolinguistic shifts in Montenegro it's quite ordinary.

Ethnicity does not equal Nationality. He is a Montenegrin by nationality, but I will add sources about him being an Albanian in an ethnic sense. There is a categorical difference between Albanian and of Albanian descent. Alltan (talk) 13:36, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

That is exactly the point. If there's a categorical difference it's that he's of Albanian descent, and Montenegrin by nationality - exactly what you're trying to remove.

By all means add sources - it's a recent unsourced addition to a BLP and should be removed without them anyway. Golikom (talk) 13:41, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

"there's plenty of more examples like him. Petar Perkolic for example"

Also are you even sure you're arguing for the right thing? Petar Perkolic is in Category:Montenegrin people of Albanian descent. He's not in Category:Albanians in Montenegro Golikom (talk) 13:47, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

I am sure of everything except as to why you insist on being uncivil. Regardless you are wrong. He is not "of Albanian descent, he is an Albanian. Petar Perkolic and Marko Miljanov were of Albanian descent. I feel like a broken record repeating the same thing and you ignoring it. Alltan (talk) 14:11, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

By this logic you are pushing we could go ahead and add Category:Albanians in Montenegro to Marko Miljanov and Petar Perkolic. Alltan (talk) 14:14, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

No, but we could remove Albanians in Montenegro from Redžović because it's entirely unsourced at present. These are you examples, and you're the one who said they're the same as Redžović.

Where am I being uncivil? Golikom (talk) 14:21, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

Marko Miljanov? Of Albanian descent? Surix321 (talk) 02:34, 24 October 2024 (UTC)