Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2013 September 1

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September 1

Maria of the House of Dolgorukov

In Russian, which is correct Maria Dolgorukova or Maria Dolgorukaya? Or do both work?--The Emperor's New Spy (talk) 01:31, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

In those time there weren't strict rules established for family names in Russian. Despite of -(sk)iy having more aristocratic connotations, -ov was also widespread among nobility (a good example is the Romanovs, which sounds very common; I think there are hundreds of thousands of people with this family name, but they have no connection to the monarchic family, but one of their ancestor (most probably an ordinary peasant) was just named Roman). So the both ways are accepted. I suppose more ancient Dolgorukiy has changed to Dolgorukov in the course of the 17th century.--Lüboslóv Yęzýkin (talk) 02:03, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Dolgorukova is the feminine form of Dolgorukov (as in the House of Dolgorukov), while Dolgorukaya is the feminine form of Dolgorukiy (as in Yuri Dolgorukiy). They are both correct, but these two Marias are different people. (I suppose the Dolgorukovs descended from Yuri Dolgorukiy though? I don't know enough about Russian history to help you there...)

accepted term for German as used in Germany

As I look around in WP, it seems to be accepted now that German is a pluricentric language, with different standard forms in different countries. Is there one accepted term, used in English, for the form of German spoken in Germany (as opposed to Austria or elsewhere)? I'm especially interested in terms used in scholarly writing--references would be great.Herbivore (talk) 20:13, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

Standard German is called "Standarddeutsch" or "Hochdeutsch" in German. When I took German in school the professor remarked that we would learn "Hochdeutsch". I think that's the what the textbook also called it. Adam Bishop (talk) 20:42, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

Though if you wish to distinguish German Standard German from Austrian Standard German and Swiss Standard German (not to be confused with Swiss German), you might use the contrastive focus reduplication "German German". The English use is actually even mentioned in German Wikipedia's article on Bundesdeutsches Hochdeutsch (German (Standard) German). ---Sluzzelin talk 21:37, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

a term that means 'horrified fascination'?

It's not schadenfreude that makes me stare at a terrible car accident, but horrified fascination; do the Germans or some other culture have a word for this feeling? Thanks Adambrowne666 (talk) 22:24, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

Like "I fear to watch .. yet I cannot turn away"? -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 23:26, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

"Rubbernecking" is a term used in the US for drivers who slow down to look at accident scenes, thus causing a traffic jam. It doesn't really get at the emotional state of the person, though. StuRat (talk) 00:24, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

The term has migrated to Aus too; but yeah, not quite what I'm looking for. I imagined there must be some horrible German term for it. Adambrowne666 (talk) 00:29, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

The horrible German term is wikt:de:Schaulust, an English term is scopophilia. --Pp.paul.4 (talk) 00:36, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Belated thanks, PP.Paul - but I wonder if they're quite the right words? Scopophilia is a love of looking, almost voyeurism, rather than fixation on looking at something horrible - and from what i can tell from the German, Schaulust means almost the same. Maybe I'm missing some nuance? Adambrowne666 (talk) 11:38, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Interestingly enough, the phenomenon has given rise to the phrase "car-crash TV" which refers to the sort of television programme that you know you shouldn't watch but can't help it, you're glued to the set. --TammyMoet (talk) 08:39, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

The sort of television programme you know you shouldn't watch? Is there any other kind? Matt Deres (talk) 23:33, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

I propose the two-word expression "visual napalm". People can become desensitized. See Psalms 119:37.

—Wavelength (talk) 16:45, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

We simply look at for instance a horrible car wreck because it is something of interest. I fail to understand why we would need a special word to describe looking at something of interest. Bus stop (talk) 17:12, 4 September 2013 (UTC)