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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Addie Viola Smith/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 9 June 2024 [1].

Addie Viola Smith

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Nominator(s): voorts (talk/contributions) 00:23, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This article, written for WIR #302, is about Addie Viola Smith, the first woman to serve as a Foreign Service officer under the United States Department of Commerce who eventually worked her way up to trade commissioner in Shanghai and consul at the Consulate General of the United States, Shanghai. Smith was also involved with international feminist activism (with a colonialist and imperialist perspective), often working with her life partner, Eleanor Mary Hinder. Thanks to KJP1 for a thorough GA review. voorts (talk/contributions) 00:23, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support by Nick-D

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This is an interesting article. I have the following comments:

  • Link Department of Labor in the lead
    • Done.
  • "who appealed to Herbert Hoover, the Secretary of Commerce " - Hoover should be linked
    • Done.
  • Who rejected Smith's first attempt to be promoted to trade commissioner?
    • Unclear from the source.
  • "native Chinese women" - is 'native' needed here? It's a pretty yucky term these days.
    • The sources cited used native, I suppose to clarify non-Western Chinese women, but I agree it's unnecessary.
  • Smith's ADB entry noted that she and Hinder spent most of the 1950s living in New York and travelled frequently for the UN; this is missing from the article.
    • Added.
  • Eleanor Mary Hinder is red linked twice
    • Removed second instance outside of lede.
  • There's a likely-PD photo of Smith in 1929 here. Searching in the National Library of Australia's Trove service returns lots of other stories mentioning Smith, though they're generally pretty lightweight looking.
    • Thanks. Most of the photographs from these old newspapers are not great quality; I'll investigate its PD status.
  • It might also be worth including that Smith prepared Hinder's papers to be deposited at the State Library of New South Wales - [2]
    • Done.
  • Likewise, the ADB entries note that Smith and Hinder's home in Sydney was acquired from one of Hinder's cousins. It seems that the sources are dancing around acknowledging that they were likely 'out' to Hinder's family who appear to have accepted them as a couple given this and Smith's connections with the family after Hinder's death. This seems also worth noting given that this kind of thing was unfortunately uncommon at the time. Nick-D (talk) 08:17, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • I haven't seen any sources stating that they were explicitly out to Hinder's family, so I'm not sure how I would frame this without it being OR.
      • I'm suggesting here that you note the various close links like the ADB, etc, entries do which illustrate that they openly lived together (for instance, I just saw a news story on Trove from 1940 that noted that they shared a house in Shanghai together as 'friends'). Nick-D (talk) 01:34, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Nick-D: Replied above. voorts (talk/contributions) 23:50, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Those changes look good, and I'm pleased to support this nomination. Please see my comment above. Nick-D (talk) 01:35, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]


Comments

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  • "She was the first woman Foreign Service officer" - I think maybe "She was the first female Foreign Service officer" would read more elegantly
    • Done.
  • "Smith studied business administration" - I think changing this to "She studied business administration" would avoid any possible confusion about which Smith is being referred to
    • Done.
  • "the Assistant Director of the Bureau of Foreign and Domestic Commerce O. P. Hopkins, denied her application" => "the Assistant Director of the Bureau of Foreign and Domestic Commerce, O. P. Hopkins, denied her application"
    • Done.
  • That's all I got!

-- ChrisTheDude (talk) 20:08, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@ChrisTheDude: Done. Thank you, voorts (talk/contributions) 22:22, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source review - pass

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Comments soon. Phlsph7 (talk) 07:17, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sourcing looks overall good: there are no unreferenced claims in the body of the article and I didn't spot any unreliable sources. WP:EARWIG picks up one potential case of copyvios with https://oac.cdlib.org/findaid/ark:/13030/c8057psg/entire_text/, but this seems to be mainly because of stock phrases like "assistant chief of the Women's Division of the United States Employment Service", "chief of the Information Division of the United States Training and Dilution Service", and "representative of the International Federation of Women Lawyers". To be on the side of caution, maybe our sentence "She studied business administration at Heald's Business College in San Francisco, graduating in 1908" should be rephrased.

A few spot checks:

  • The station launched on February 19, 1939.[18] supported by Krysko 2011, p. 90
  • She was the first woman to serve as a Foreign Service officer under the Bureau.[6] supported by Krysko 2011, p. 92
  • Addie Viola Smith was born in Stockton, California, on November 14, 1893, to Rufus Roy Smith, a publisher, and Addie Gabriela Smith (née Brown) supported by Barker 2006
  • where they were "devoted to each other, shar[ing] a house[ ] and creat[ing] a garden".[33] supported by Barker 2006
  • During her time as a clerk, Smith requested permission to sit for a civil service examination so that she could obtain a promotion to assistant trade commissioner.[8] supported by Epstein 2008, p. 708
  • Throughout her career, Smith prioritized building roads as a means of increasing the import of American automobiles to China.[14] supported by Epstein 2008, pp. 704–705

There are a few cases were a citation can be removed because it is already in the scope of an identical second citation

  • As trade commissioner, Smith was responsible for reporting on Chinese industry, infrastructure, and trade opportunities to the Department of Commerce; advising American business interests; serving as a liaison between American and Chinese businesses; implementing U.S. trade policy; and promoting the expansion of American trade in China.[14] Throughout her career, Smith prioritized building roads as a means of increasing the import of American automobiles to China.[14] remove the first citation to [14]
  • In 1949, Smith left China and moved to Bangkok, where she worked for the United States Economic Cooperation Administration and the United Nations Economic Commission for Asia and the Far East.[20] From 1952 to 1964, Smith was the representative of the International Federation of Women Lawyers to the United Nations in New York.[20] remove the first citation to [20]
  • where they were "devoted to each other, shar[ing] a house[ ] and creat[ing] a garden".[33] During the 1950s, Smith and Hinder spent much of their time living in New York, traveling often for Smith's work with the United Nations.[33] remove the first citation to [33]

A few other observations

  • Epstein 2008, p. 708–709. replace "p" with "pp"
  • Epstein 2008, p. 709–710. replace "p" with "pp"
  • The Australian Dictionary of Biography lacks an identifier (ISBN or OCLC)

As a side note: during the source review, I came upon some books written by Addie Viola Smith, see [3]. I'm not sure whether her activities as an author should be mentioned in the text. Epstein 2008 p. 704 mentions her book Motor Roads in China. Phlsph7 (talk) 08:21, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

All of the above done. I'm citing the online version of the Australian Dictionary of Biography, so I'm not sure an identifier would be appropriate. Regarding Smith's writing, I'll think of how to incorporate that. Motor Roads in China, and most of the things on Google Books, appear to be government reports written in her capacity as trade commissioner. She did write a few law journal articles. Maybe I'll add a bibliography to the article. voorts (talk/contributions) 17:05, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
PInging @Phlsph7. voorts (talk/contributions) 17:05, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Looks good. If there are no differences between the printed and the online version, I would add the print ISBN, but it probably doesn't matter much either way. You could let the other sources decide whether her work as an author is important enough to be discussed. The mention in Epstein 2008 p. 704 seems to be more of a side note but maybe other sources have more on that. Phlsph7 (talk) 06:55, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There's not much in the way of a discussion of her as an author as far as I have seen. I'll take a look at the print versions for ADB. It seems like they update posts periodically online so I'm not sure that there's a categorical match between one print version and the online version. voorts (talk/contributions) 16:44, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Phlsph7: Just to note, I've added a few more cites. voorts (talk/contributions) 01:07, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the ping. I see that some newspapers and magazines were added. The China Press is probably not ideal for politics but it's only used in the article for factual information about Smith so it should be fine. I didn't spot problems with the other additions. Phlsph7 (talk) 07:40, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Gog the Mild

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Recusing to review.

  • The lead is relatively long for a short article. Suggest trimming it. (By about 40%.) In addition, per MOS:LEADLENGTH, the lead should consist of one or, at most, two paragraphs.
    • I've trimmed the lead. Let me know if you want me to try to cut more.
Good job. I have trimmed a couple of factoids which I don't think are important enough for the lead and lightly copy edited, and put this version on the FAC talk page. See what you think, I don't insist on all of it.
  • "Thereafter, Smith served in several roles in the United States government." Do we have a date for when thereafter started?
    • Removed from lead.
  • "The government official Hilda Muhlhauser Richards also intervened". Is it known what Richards' government position was?
    • Clarified.
  • "Smith and Hinder were memorialized by their friends with two stone seats". Is it known when?
    • I'm not sure. Do you know any editors who can go to Caringbah, find the seats, and take a picture of them so that we can verify the date they were placed?
That's a thought, a photo of them would make a nice extra. Ian Rose, you anywhere near southern Sydney, or know anyone who is? But don't worry about it. I have just checked three sources and none of them give a date, so I strongly suspect it's not known. Gog the Mild (talk) 21:59, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A fine article. Not a lot to pick at. Gog the Mild (talk) 15:58, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Gog the Mild: Done. voorts (talk/contributions) 19:00, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Just possible tweaks to the lead to discuss. Gog the Mild (talk) 21:59, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Copied your version over. voorts (talk/contributions) 22:46, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

MSincccc

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I would be leaving comments shortly. MSincccc (talk) 05:20, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • ...was an American attorney and the first female Foreign Service officer in the United States Foreign Service under the Department of Commerce. She served as the United States trade commissioner to Shanghai from 1928 to 1949 and was the first woman to hold the position of assistant trade commissioner.
The two mentions of her being "the first" have been streamlined to improve flow.
I think her highest role in the Foreign Service should be in the first sentence, so I'm not making this change.
  • While working for the United States Department of Labor, she attended the Washington College of Law part-time, earning her Bachelor of Laws in 1920.
    • Done.
  • Both were memorialized by their friends with two stone seats at the E.G. Waterhouse National Camellia Gardens in Caringbah. More preferable. Rest of the lead is fine. Regards.
    • Done.
MSincccc (talk) 05:32, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • After an initial rejection, Smith sought help from Clara Burdette,... "Smith" could be replaced with "she" here as her name appears in the sentences before and after this one.
    • Done.
  • who appealed to Herbert Hoover, then the Secretary of Commerce and a personal friend
    • Done.
  • She also served as the registrar of the Chinese Trade Act of 1922. Same as above so as to avoid repeating "Smith" in consecutive sentences when it is understood that she's beem referred to.
    • Done.
  • Throughout her career, she prioritized building roads as a means of increasing the import of American automobiles to China. Same reason.
    • Done.
  • From 1952 to 1964, she was the representative of the International Federation of Women Lawyers to the United Nations in New York. If she was one of the representatives, you could also change "the" used before "representative" to an "a".
    • Done.
  • ...she and other Western expatriates viewed their role as engaging in dialogue with Chinese women and "sincerely endeavor[ing] to reflect the best of American ideals and traditions".
    • Done.
  • After Hinder was denied American citizenship
    • Not done. United States is clearer than American.
  • As executrix of Hinder's estate, she compiled and annotated Hinder's papers for contribution to the Mitchell Library.
    • Done.
  • You could replace "Smith and Hinder" with "Both" as was previously suggested by me for the lead.
    • Done.
Nothing more to add here. A fine article in terms of its prose once the above suggestions are addressed. Looking forward to your response @Voorts:. Regards. MSincccc (talk) 05:57, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@MSincccc: replied above. voorts (talk/contributions) 16:51, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Voorts The article is fine then. Support. MSincccc (talk) 16:55, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
MyCat

I'm impressed by what you've done with surprisingly few sources. Will review soon! MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 00:16, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's all I got, this is an excellent article! Wonderful work MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 11:00, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Bracket with space indicates missing punctuation. I didn't WL registrar because she wasn't that kind of a registrar. voorts (talk/contributions) 23:58, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support then, wonderful job MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 12:02, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Image review - Pass

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Both images are well captioned and have good alt text. UndercoverClassicist T·C 20:01, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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