SameerKhan

Bengali script transliteration

Hi Sameer,

I needed help with the IPA only. The transliterations were decided after much discussion with other Wikipedians and hence, I need to know what your basis was for some of the transliteration changes. You seemed to only change the transliteration of আ from ā to a. The reason to not use a was to distinguish from the transliteration of the Hindi अ.

Just so that you know the transliteration is strictly based on an easy way to type in "Benglish"; it does not necessarily depend on IPA. Leave a message on my talk page. Thanks for the help.

By the way, I'm in a hurry so I can't leave a full welcome message, but welcome aboard. Check out the following topics:

• Neutral point of view
• Manual of Style
• Tutorial
• Editing

You can sign your name using tildes: ~~~ for just the name and ~~~~ for name with a timestamp.

Also feel free to check out Bengal project.

Urnonav 09:07, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification. Incidentally, I was initially a proponent of a as opposed to ā, but over the long process of negotiation, lot of things pushed towards the macron a. For now, let's leave it there. It helps in a subtle way actually. The more important case for Bengali Wikipedians was, not surprisingly, I think, অ and not আ!

On the note on some of the transliterations of letter names, I'll check with some other native speakers. Since you work on this field, you'd probably know that "East Bengal" pronounces some of them differently from "standard" Bangla.

I'll also add a table for the conjunct consonants. Hoping for some help from you!

For all of the IPA characters, use the IPA chart on Wikipedia and just copy/paste the symbols. I personally find that better than hunting down the ASCII codes.

As for ই and ঈ, if you talk to perfectionists in terms of Bangla pronunciation, like poets and so on, they'd tell you there's a subtle difference, although as an average person, I never make one!

The whole phonological preference of ê as opposed to æ went over my antenna! So, I'll leave it at that especially since I don't remember why we picked æ and since we haven't really used that a lot.

Just a few more things:

• wikify: add links whenever possible - it enriches the navigability for users: use [[ and ]] to encose keywords that have pages associated or use [[page name|your keyword(s)]]
• when you use external links, please try to put them in the format [http://www.domainname.com/subdomain/userpage explanatory keywords]
• try to leave edit summaries: I shouldn't be the one advising people to do this since I forget all the time, but this really does help
• make use of the "watch" feature to watch pages you work on

Have fun! -- Urnonav 14:47, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

PS: Just out of curiosity, are you a native Bangla-speaker? Check out Wikipedia:Babel!

Bangla

Hi Sameer, nice to see you joining the efforts to promote Bangladesh and our language. I see from your webpage that you are a linguistics student at UCLA, would you be interested to add to the Bengali language article? Right now, it doesn't have much on the history of Bangla language. Also, the language's origin all the way from Indo-European need to be clarified. I could google and look up stuff, but since you are doing research in Linguistics, you'd be a better person to do that. Thanks. --Ragib 22:05, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

Re:More transliteration

Actually, for the time being, leave the a's as they are. Would you happen to know if in Assamese language, are there separate a and ā - as in do they have a "a" sound similar to hindi "a"? In that case, the distinction is important, but otherwise, we could just keep using a. As for i and ī, I'm unsure. I'll check Samsad and Bangla Academy dictionaries' pronunciation guidelines to see if the two i's are pronouned separately.

By the way, it's never too late to start. Ironically, I started taking interest in my language after I left Bangladesh!

Juktak-khor coming soon!

-- Urnonav 12:03, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

Battle of Plassey

I put a move proposal to change the name to "Battle of Palashee" or "Battle of Palashi". Would you add your comments in the talk page? Thanks. --Ragib 20:21, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

Districts of Bangladesh task

Ok, I finished creating articles on all 64 districts, added a navigation template to almost all, and have inserted the standard sections to most of them. Now is the time for some other volunteers to insert information into them, may be taking stats/info from Banglapedia and paraphrasing that. You can start by taking over any articles from the nav template at Template:Subdivisions of Bangladesh. --Ragib 06:55, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

re: ian!

Posted on User_talk:ianneub

Hey Sameer! Thanks for the hello. It's good to hear from you! I hope you're doing well.

If you're ever bored on a 4th Monday of the month head over to the Wikipedia LA Meetup! I hope to attend the next one. Consider yourself invited!

Oh and nice edits to the HB article :-)

Great work in Bangla language

Sameer, great work in the article...about the linguistic analysis/difference of east and west Bengali dialects. As a CS grad, I am not familiar with the linguistic terms, so your expertise in this area made the analysis more scholarly. Keep up the good work. --Ragib 19:24, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

Rohingya dialect

Sameer, how close is Rohingya language to Chittagonian dialect? I looked into some Rohingya words, for example, ful (=flower), Hailla (=tomorrow, chittagonian has khhaliya=tomorrow). (see more here). Does any linguistic research/scholarly work focus on this? I'm asking this to back up the link between these two languages in the article Rohingya. Thanks. --Ragib 15:14, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

SoCal WikiProject

Since you are in the LA-area, you may be interested in the Southern California WikiProject. Please take a look at the project's page and see if there is anything that interests you. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me. BlankVerse ∅ 08:44, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

Boy, you've been busy adding photos. Sooner or later I've been looking in to getting a digital camera, but haven't purchased one yet. BlankVerse ∅ 15:57, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

I was surprised when you added a photo to the Seal Beach, California article—it's the town that I grew up in—although I probably wouldn't have picked the City Hall building as representative of the city. When I finally get a digital camera, I'd like to add photots of the pier and the Natl. Wildlife Refuge.

At one time I'd thought about creating a personal website on exploring the LA area that I was going to call "the resident tourist". There are so many interesting places in the LA area that even locals may not know about. BlankVerse ∅ 06:59, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Also, since you are interested in transportation issues, there are two more WikiProjects you might be interested in: Wikipedia:WikiProject California State Highways & Wikipedia:WikiProject California County Routes. (Along with the big controvery over whether it should be List of California State Routes & List of California County Routes, or List of California state routes & List of California county routes.) BlankVerse ∅ 07:17, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Personally, the naming issue is a little silly because it really doesn't matter that much for lists. On the other hand, I see the same problem spilling over (from the same group of editors) to the titles of regular articles where the rule for lower-case letters for non-proper nouns has very good reasons. When you read through all the blather it basically boils down to a few editors wanting the capitol letter versions because that's the way that they want it.

To date myself, I went to Huntington Beach High School when Seal Beach high school students were still part of the Huntington Beach School District. Either my graduating class or the one after it were the last on the campus before they tore down most of the original buildings except for the tower and the auditorium.

After seeing your city hall picture, I tried to decide what I would like to put in a gallery for the Seal Beach article. Here's what I decided. The pier should probably be used as the lead photo in the intro if there is a good picture. Then in the gallery itself, photos of 1) the Natl. Wildlife Refuge and 2) the Naval Weapons Station (if you can take them without being investigated as a potential terrorist--the best thing would probably be to take one of the tours of the Refuge), 3) Leisure World, 4) The former North American Rockwell, now Boeing building where they built the second stage of the Saturn V rockets, 5) Main Street--perhaps one of the older businesses such as Walt's Wharf, 6) some surfers (at Ray Bay?), 7) the sidewalk and some houses along the beach, and 8) that weird house built from the water tower at the entrance to the Surfside Colony (is it still there? I haven't driven through the Surfside/Sunset Beach area in ages). BlankVerse ∅ 11:03, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Haunting ā versus a

OK, it seems that I came up with a weird case of ā versus a. In our current transliteration there is no provision for the এ্যা sound. I was thinking of using a for that. However, since you have linguistics background, I need your opinion on this. Is there a reason to use something else like the é?

Urnonav 08:42, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

Ooops didn't notice that was on the list. Thanks! -- Urnonav 15:07, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

A request to u

Due to the continous vandlism of User:Truth aspirant-- the article Mir Shakil-ur-Rahman has become a ‘business-propaganda-feature’ rather an ‘encyclopedic article.’ Just see history of the article [[Mir Shakil-ur-Rahman and Talk:Mir Shakil-ur-Rahman page--You are requested to take intrest in this serious editorial issue and make things straight in this global phenomena (Wikipedia). Thanx. Wiki4u

Calcuttan surnames

One doesn't often run into a linguist of Bangladeshi origins on the Internet, so I'll make full use of this opportunity and see if you can help me out! :-)

I have always been puzzled by the anglicization of certain Indian names. The internet provides no clue as to their origins. The names are primarily Bengali Hindu surnames, and they are anglicized as follows:

Mukhopadhyay becomes Mukherjee

Chattopadhyay becomes Chatterjee

Bandopadhyay becomes Banerjee

Gangopadhyay becomes Ganguly

I suspect this has something to do with Raj officialdom when India was a colony. Would you be able to shed some light / direct me towards possible source material? Muchas gracias.

-- Peripatetic 22:59, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

My memory of the middle age History of Bengal is not so sharp, but I remember that during the reign of Ballal Sen, of the Sen dynasty, several Brahmin priest families from Kashmir were brought to Bengal by him. The "*-upadhyaya"s are the descendents of those Brahmin families. Note that anyone with those surnames belong to the Brahmin caste. During the British rule, their names were shortened in English. --Ragib 23:23, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

I have heard the theory that these shortenings are simply British bastardizations of Bengali Brahmin titles, but I personally am doubtful of this. British anglicizations of Bengali names are typically just slight changes in pronunciations, such as "Tagore" for "Thakur", or attempts at Sanskritic pronunciations, such as "Sen" for "Shen" and "Sarkar" for "Shôrkar". Other than the four or five -opaddhae/-erjee examples, there are no instances of such a major change in pronunciation. Also consider the fact that unlike Sen, Sarkar, Bose, Roy, Tagore, etc, which Bengalis will always pronounce Shen, Shôrkar, Bosh, Rae, Thakur, etc, the -opaddhae/-erjee names are pronounced both ways by Bengalis. It is not at all strange to hear a Bengali say "Mukharji" even when speaking in Bengali, although it would be quite odd to hear a Bengali pronounce "Sarkar" as in English. I suspect that both forms were in use at the time of the British Raj, with the -opaddhae forms considered more formal. The British probably made it a habit to use the -erjee forms to simplify the pronunciation for themselves, but I seriously doubt they just made the -erjee forms up out of nowhere. Unfortunately, as you mentioned, there is no evidence for or against this online, and if you come across anything online or otherwise, please let me know. I have wondered this myself for many years!

SameerKhan 08:37, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

I also suffer from a dilemma similar to that of SameerKhan. In Bengali, commoners frequently use the following:

• Mukhuj-je for Mukhopadhyay
• Chatuj-je for Chattopadhyay
• B(n)arhuj-je for Bandopadhyay

In fact the former is in some case more prominent especially among illiterate people. Now why would illiterate commoners know what the British called the Brahmins when the Brahmins themselves didn't use these titles. What would be interesting to investigate is if "-arjee" comes out of the word "arjo" or "arya". There might be a reason to think that local people associated these Brahmins from North-west with "Aryans" and added the suffixes to relate to their "country" of origin. "-upadhyay" might have been what the Brahmins called themselves? Any thoughts? -- Urnonav 15:06, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

I feel that the theory about the british changing the names as per convinience works because as far as I know Ganguly is originally Gangopadhyay. Hence The logic of "arjee" does not work here. Arvindmodi 07:56, 18 September 2006 (UTC)Arvind Modi

I don't know how accurate this article on Bengali_Brahmins is, but it has a few theories:

• Sanskrit -jiva ("holy man") became Prakrit -jye, and had about the same meaning as -opadhyaya. The first suffix became the -jee form. Pretty believable.
  
• Sanskrit -opadhyaya istelf became Prakrit -ovajhaya and later to just -ji. This theory was removed from the article a few revisions back, but it makes sense to me phonologically and semantically.
  

This doesn't explain why Gangopadhyay alternates with Ganguly and not Ganerjee, but it explains the other names. The British heard the -jye/-ji endings and transcribed them as -jee, anglicizing the root words (baner-, etc.) a bit along the way. --SameerKhan 08:18, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Bangla pronunciation

Thanks for updating/correcting the IPA notation. I'm not familiar with it, so tried to improvise to counter {{user|Tarikash}'s "spelling guide". --Ragib 23:09, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Bangla and linguistics

Hi, Ragib suggested I contact you to see if you could confirm a translation of a phrase he has written in Bengali, you can find it here (do not click if you are offended by strong language) - please see the talk page of the article for further discussion.

Furthermore, I see that you are interested in linguistics, if you are interested in theoretical linguistics then please consider joining WikiProject Theoretical Linguistics. Thanks :) - FrancisTyers 09:31, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

As you can see from my userpage, I am only a heritage speaker of Bangla, so I can't give totally native-speaker judgments. But as far as I can see, Ragib's translation of "fuck the border" looks perfect. It is literally "May all the world's borders go to hell." A transliteration of the phrase would be "Prithibir shôb shimanto jahanname jak". --SameerKhan 04:24, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Bangla upgrade

The important thing is you're doing what you think is best for the article, which is what we're all here for. I'm also real eager to try and get the article to FA status, but, alas, I know so little of Bangla, I may as well be a non-speaker. I can only contribute to formatting and wording issues. I'm going to have to depend on people such as you who actually know stuff about Bangla to provide the meat of the material. Acutally, I believe the article is pretty darn good as is. It just needs a few improvements to gets where we want it to be. --Ttownfeen 06:27, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Assamese script

I'd support the merger. I do not think the number argument is relevant when it comes to something like a script. The two scripts are nearly identical and they share a common history. Moreover, for technical reasons, they are considered the same script. For example, the Unicode has just script one script for both Assamese and Bengali. So I support a merger. --Chaipau 13:12, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Hi Sameer, I let to take care of the Assamese standardized phonetic spelling on Wikipedia! I hope you noticed and are not offended. I may have comments later, but not just yet. Good job, and thanks! Chaipau 11:56, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Hi Sameer, I made some changes to Assamese script but I am not sure I got the IPA's right. Could you have a look? Thanks. Chaipau 22:48, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Chittagonian

Hello, Sameer

This is Tanzeel who started/created the Chittagonian language article. First of all, I leave this message to thank you for your expert contributions to the article. Second of all, I am not very familiar with wikipedia, so could you add the language code for Chittagonian which is "cit", as i don't know how.

Yours appreciatively, Tanzeel 18:29, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Bengali / Bangla

Could you respond to Peter in Talk:Bengali language? He's asking for literature citations, justifications etc. for using "Bangla" over "Bengali" ... since you have a nice linguistic background, you may be able to answer his questions better. Thanks. --Ragib 17:48, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Bangla wikipedia

Hi Sameer, we have started a drive for contributing to the Bangla wikipedia (http://bn.wiki.x.io ). If you are interested, get an account, and start expanding or inter-wiking english wikipedia topics there. Thanks. --Ragib 23:01, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Kolkata

Sameer, can you do an IPA pronunciation for Kolkata, as requested by Dwaipayanc (talk · contribs) in my talk page? Thanks. --Ragib 20:13, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Hi! Could you please check if the IPA pronounciation in Kolkata is ok? Thanks.--Dwaipayanc 18:49, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Done. Discussed on your talk page. --SameerKhan 09:00, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Amazing! Bangla text in a Sri Lankan coin!!

See Image talk:Uttama coin.png. I'm no linguist, so can you explain why this coin has Bangla text in it? --Ragib 07:12, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Image Tagging Image:LA Blue Line.gif

This media may be deleted.

Thanks for uploading Image:LA Blue Line.gif. I notice the 'image' page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you have not created this media yourself then there needs to be an argument why we have the right to use the media on Wikipedia (see copyright tagging below). If you have not created the media yourself then it needs to be specified where it was found, i.e., in most cases link to the website where it was taken from, and the terms of use for content from that page.

If the media also doesn't have a copyright tag then one should be added. If you created/took the picture, audio, or video then the {{GFDL-self}} tag can be used to release it under the GFDL. If you believe the media qualifies as fair use, consider reading fair use, and then use a tag such as {{Non-free fair use in|article name}} or one of the other tags listed at Wikipedia:Image copyright tags#Fair_use. See Wikipedia:Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other media, consider checking that you have specified their source and copyright tagged them, too. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any unsourced and untagged images will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Stifle (talk) 21:09, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Transliteration vs Transcription

Dar Sameer Khan: What you (and indeed many others) call transliteration is really transcription. These are standard terms used widely in linguistics.

However, since there is no standard transliteration, you will notice I have not reverted back your transcriptions. Just the text.

Let's move this debate to the bangla language discussion page and not to our private spaces. Mukerjee 13:13, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Bangla citations

No problem. I actually stumbled on a paper of yours while looking for references, but it went over my head :). --ppm 01:32, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Indian

Dear sameer, How can adding "indian" to tagore article can be called an attempt to make it biased? I have expressed my views in the talk page . Bharatveer 05:58, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Sameer,

It is certainly a fact.And as you said "enjoy" Bharatveer 06:53, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks

Thank you for extending your helping hand. :) Auyon 12:23 10 July 2006

Santhals

Since you seem to be interested in Santals. Do you have any info on the Santali 'Ol-Chiki' script?(Netaji 12:12, 18 July 2006 (UTC))

Longyi and lungi

Thanks for clearing that up. That's what I'd heard: lungi from longyi and not the other way round as one Bengali once said to a mutual friend. Wagaung 17:16, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Phalgun

Dear Sameer,

Bengali Language is derived from Purely from the Indian languages like Prakrit, Sanskrit and Pali. The word Phalgun is a Sanskrit word. All languages derived from India there are no pronunciation like ' FA ‘. Pa+Ha is PHA. You know we need to use lot of European words and Persian words. So to write a word with FA we also use that letter PHA. But when we speak an Indian word its pronunciation should be PHA. In Hindi, letter ' FA ' is like a DOT under PHA. Truth is always truth. Don't mislead people with a wrong pronunciation like Falgun. However I know you have good knowledge in Calendar keep it up.

I edited the article Phalguna. But not edited in Nepali or Bengali calendar.

Nepali and Bengali Calendar is purely depending up on Indian Calendar. I once again request you if you are the creator of article of Nepali and Bengali Calendar. Try to change it. Other wise it will lose the standard of Wikipedia or that will mislead entire Nepali / Bengali people.

Try to love language. Thanks and Best regards,

Jyothish Jothishkumart 05:26, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Huh? I don't know what gave you this funny idea, but Bangla which I speak as a native language has many words prnounced "Fa" instead of "Pha". In Bangla, Falgun is pronounced as "FA"lgun, not "Pha"lgun. Please do not try to mislead native speakers of a language on how to pronounce it. Bengali calendar is the continuation of the traditional fasli son calendar, and while it is true that some of the month names match with Hindu calendar, the start and day count is different in Bangla calendar. This has been standardized by Bangla Academy. So, please do not try to mix up calendars and replace links to specific months. Thank you. --Ragib 06:32, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Hi Rajib

Hi Rahib,

Don't take it as funny, if the people speaking with ' FA ' , the word may derived from languages like Persian or Europian. Bangali is belong it Indian languages. You know what is Phalguna or how the word came from ? This is purely a sanskrit word.

I have no other words to you. I just noted something. You can research and justify. All the best. Jothishkumart 06:57, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Well, the Bengali speaking people pronounces it as "Fa". Same goes for "F"ul (flower), "F"ol (fruit). Regardless of what the words originated from, these *are* pronounced with "F" rather than "Ph". Of course, unless you decide to say 150 million people in Bangladesh are being incorrect :). By the way, my signature is written with a "g", not a "j" or "h". --Ragib 07:04, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Hi Rajib

I am just saying the pronunciation about that. For e.g. I think you are familiar with the word Schedule. How do you pronounce it? Now the people say SKEDULE. Because this is current version of US accent. All most all companies in the world are belonging to USA. What is the real? It is SHEDULE. Some time after a long time all most all people exclude from UK will pronounce like SKEDULE.

So what is the value of the real pronunciation? We can deviate or twist any thing as we like but truth is truth.

Try to research truth. That is the real research. Keep in touch. Lovingly, Jyothish.Jothishkumart 08:57, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Ragib and I are speakers of Bengali, and I am a linguist, doing all of my research on the Bengali language. I don't mean to sound haughty here, but please (as Ragib says), don't try to teach me about my language. Any Bengali speaker will tell you that there is an [f] in their language. True, it is historically derived from the Sanskrit [ph], but that is irrelevant now after thousands of years of change. Whether this is an influence from Persian or Arabic or English is also irrelevant. If you were curious, it is not. The change from [ph] to [f] is quite common around the world. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make about "truth", when the truth is that the word is pronounced and spelled (on Wikipedia) as Falgun. And yes the calendars are all related by name, although the pronunciation has changed over the centuries. Note, for example, that while Sanskrit had a lamino-dental n in Phalguna, it has become an apico-alveolar n in basically all the Indic languages. We've all changed from Sanskrit... so do you think we are all "wrong" then? --SameerKhan 09:41, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Hi Sameer / Rajib

In the article Phalguna, I created a sub article Phalguna in other calendars . But you edited that sub article with Falguna. But now I would like to avoid that sub article because some Indians may mislead by reading your Bengali pronunciation. Because that article only belong to Phalguna not Falguna. Please dont put Falguna in the article Phalguna. Best regards JyothishJothishkumart 10:26, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

That is linguistic purism like I've never seen before. --SameerKhan 17:58, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Languages

Hi There! Can you translate my name in what language you know please, and then post it Here. I would be very grateful if you do (if you know another language apart from English and the ones on my userpage please feel free to post it on) P.S. all th translations are in alpahbetical order so when you add one please put it in alpahbetical order according to the language. Thanks!!! Abdullah Geelah 15:50, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Hindi

Please see the talk page of Hindi. Cygnus_hansa 18:02, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

The troll.

I hope your message on my talk page wasnt meant to be sarcastic. I dont know if my comment on that talk page came out as condescending or offensive to you, but i certainly didnt mean that. That troll has been around for some time now. he used to vandalise article pages(not just that kannada page there are others too) and now he's settled down to vandalising talk pages.

Anyway, if you werent offended by my post on that talk page and your message on my talk wasnt meant to be sarcastic, pardon me. Peace! and cheers :) Sarvagnya 07:38, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi

Hi how are you? Nice to see you in West Bengal article. Trying to improve the article lately. Many stuffs have been borrowed from Bangladesh, as you can see ;)--Dwaipayan (talk) 18:13, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

A request

Hi Sameer, If its not too much trouble, please comment here and here. Thanks.----Sarvagnya 17:23, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Commented. --SameerKhan 03:19, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Compromise

Please ask Sarvagnya why he has a problem with calling the song Sanskritized Sashubhasa. I felt that wording was a good compromise (we get the Sanskrit, you get Sadhubhasa), and I don't see why both scripts can't be side by side.Bakaman _Bakatalk 23:56, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

I've commented on the Vande Mataram page. --SameerKhan 03:19, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Bangla

I was wondering what your opinion is on the state of the Bengali language article. Is it somewhat close to Featured Article quality? I ask since I have near-zero knowledge on most aspects of the article, but still would like to help in some way if possible--ppm 05:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

You know, I don't know much about how FAs are chosen - maybe I'm just biased, but I think that the Bengali language article is fantastic as it is, and should have been considered before for FA status. I'll look through and see if I can find an area that needs significant work. --SameerKhan 09:05, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

In that case, we might consider just going for the FA and see what issues arise. Many an FA has been fixed on the fly by editors responding to peer concern during the nomination phase.--ppm 18:47, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Sorry to bug u again abt this, but what do u think abt this FA proposition?--ppm 17:45, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Re Jana gana mana

Thanks for the excellent (and concrete ideas) on the Jana Gana Mana battle. I agree with what your saying. It's simple, yet lucid. Have a nice day. --Antorjal 00:49, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm glad people were able to compromise. --SameerKhan 09:03, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Vande Mataram

I copied your revised section (w/ Bengali romanization) from the talk page onto the main article.Bakaman _Bakatalk 22:47, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

I noticed! Thanks. --SameerKhan 22:49, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Seeking help and contribution

Dear Wikipedians,

We apreciate your valuable contribution in article named Wikipedia:Indic transliteration scheme on english WIkipedia.

We at Marathi Language wikipedia do not have enough expertise to update IPA related info in our article, specialy we have been unable to import/update IPA templates and do not know how to use IPA symbols.Please click here-this link- to provide help to update "IPA transliteration for Indic Languages" article for Marathi wikipedia

We seek and request for help in updating above mentioned article and would like to know relevant resources and refferences in respect of Devanagari and IPA .

Thanks and Regards

Mahitgar 16:08, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Languages or dialects?

Hi Sameer,

We meet again :). Can you please take a look at this and clarify. I feel that most of the 'languages' listed there are infact, dialects of Hindi or some other language. From that list I can only identify Tulu, Kodava, and maybe Kutchi and Sankethi as 'languages'. Can you please take a look at it and also the whole article if possible?

Thanks. Sarvagnya 01:01, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Hi there. Yes I was just looking at your comments on that article when this message popped up. Those are considered languages by most outside linguists, including the respected Ethnologue organization (included in the references). Many Indians, however, do not regard these languages as such, as their speakers tend to be bilingual in Hindi and tend to regard their languages as inferior. It's a sad situation! --SameerKhan 01:03, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Learning Bengali

Does Bengali have the same, uh, pronunciation as Hindi? Meaning, are অ, আ, ক, গ, চ... said the same as अ, आ, क, ग, च...? Such that, when buying this book, http://www.amazon.com/Yourself-Bengali-Complete-Language-Courses/dp/0071413685 should I purchase the CD as well? Thanks. And also, why is internet bengali so tiny lol Tuncrypt 21:48, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Definitely get the CD as well, for two reasons.

• One: for the most part, Bengali and Hindi share the same phonemic inventory, especially with the consonants - however, in some very important places, like in the vowels, they do not. One huge difference is the lack of a short-long vowel contrast in Bengali. So while in Hindi, अ and आ are mostly distinguished by vowel length and some minor quality differences, in Bengali, অ and আ are distinguished as two completely different vowel qualities {[ɔ] and [a], respectively), and there is no length difference. Also, many consonant clusters are written in both Hindi and Bengali but not pronounced in Bengali, so Lakshmi is written লক্ষ্মী lôkṣmī but pronounced lokkhi [lokkʰi]. Furthermore, there is vowel harmony and other phonological processes in Bengali (especially Standard Choltibhasha Bengali) that you will need the CD for as they are not all reflected in the spelling.

• Two: I have the Teach Yourself book, and it is pretty good (I use it for tutoring Bengali, in fact), but it is useless without the CD. They use IPA symbols, but with no regard to how the IPA symbol is traditionally pronounced. So when they say [ɱ] they definitely do not mean a labiodental nasal!

Also, yah I know! I use Mozilla Firefox, and so I found that I just had to adjust the font settings for Bengali in my Options tab. Now the Bengali text is huge! --SameerKhan 05:14, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Your message to Subuddhi on Jana Gana Mana Talk Page

Dear Sameer, as you know I am following the discussions on Jana Gana Mana very closely. I have also left a message to Subuddhi on his talk page about how he should keep cool and talk with references and citations. However I want to make a point to you. You are very quick to counter Subuddhi and earlier to Arya Rajya Maharashtra (for his incorrect allegations of vandalism). But you do not seem to convey similar messages to Sarvagnya. I do not think at this stage the debate on Jana Gana Mana is in any healthy situation. Sarvagnya is just digging old graves and pushing his POV about removing Hindi transliteration. I am practicing high restraint and trying to be reasonable always. But that does not mean that people keep on with their provokations. With all due respect to your contributions, I just mean to say that you should (possibly) be consistent in pointing out the mistakes of others.

Sorry if you will bad about my comment, but thats what I felt. Happy editing. thanks. --APandey 07:55, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

No, you're right that I have not really spoken out against Sarvagnya. But then again I don't think he's being as unreasonable as others - even if I don't agree with him all the time, he hasn't made any personal attacks or had "shouting matches". He has mostly asked questions and I have tried to answer them as well as I could without adding too much bias. His views and concerns are totally valid, and his questions are important to answer, in my opinion. This is unlike Subuddhi's comment, which looked more like a POV-filled personal attack. Regarding Arya Rajya Maharashtra, I stand by the comments I made in response to his assumption of vandalism, and although I know some of my comments can be applied to Sarvagnya as well, I just didn't want to repeat them as I know I have already repeated myself enough times on that page. I hope you understand I'm not just taking pity on Sarvagnya (even if I do sympathize with some of his views), I'm just reacting as I have seen fit so far. --SameerKhan 08:29, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

SammerKhan, I noticed you have now been dragged into the whole Marathi-Kannada dispute. On Jana Gana Mana, I merely see a parallel to the Vande Mataram dispute, in which certain users (you know which ones) unwilling to compromise. I dont see whats wrong with having Hindi and Bangla and ending it there. I'm sure by now you feel the same way as wellBakaman _Bakatalk 01:02, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Maybe we should just not continue the debate. Clearly arguing has changed nothing so far! --SameerKhan 10:10, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

By "we" if you mean (you, me, Bharatveer, Ragib and Antorjal) then we compromised a long time ago. By "we" if you mean the newbies that like to bicker, then there hasnt been a compromise.Bakaman _Bakatalk 19:08, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Yah seriously! I think that we should just say "look we've had this debate before, and no new (relevant) information has been found, so let's just stick to the compromise we came to before." I'm on Wikipedia sporadically right now since I'm out of town, but when I get back home I'll see what the situation is like. --SameerKhan 06:00, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

A small help needed

Hi, if you know about it and can help me with this, then it will be a great help. If I have to write say Parliament in Hindi on an English wikipedia article, what is the right way ? Sansad or Samsad ? I know that everyone in North India would write Sansad without exception and probably everyone in South India will write Samsad. Similarly I have seen sometimes people in South India write Ru where a Ri would be appropriate according to me (e.g. Rishi or Rushi). Without claiming who is right and who is wrong, I would like to understand what is the standard on wikipedia. If you know the correct answer or help me point the right references, it would be a great help. Thanks --Apandey 10:31, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

This all depends on the language in question. If you're trying to write as if the word is pronounced as in Sanskrit, you should use the r with a dot underneath for "ri"/"ru" (ṛ). If you are using our Wikipedia Romanization for Bengali, you would write "ri". For Hindi transliteration, you could write "ṛ" if you were trying to match the orthographic version, or "ri" if you're trying to match the actual pronunciation. The original Sanskrit sound was just an "r" sound, sort of like the "r"-sound in the American English pronunciation of the word "fur" - there is no vowel, the "r" serves as the syllable's nucleus without a vowel. In Sanskrit, the word "rishi" would have been pronounced ṛṣi [ɻʂi] sort of like American English "Hershey" without the "h". In later Indic and Dravidian languages, this "ṛ" was no longer pronounced as just an "r", but as "r" plus a vowel. In Bengali and Hindi, the vowel is "i". In Gujarati and Marathi it is "u". In Telugu it can be either "i" or "u". So once again, the Romanization of this sound will depend on whether you are transliterating the vowel symbol ("ṛ") or transcribing the pronunciation ("ri" or "ru").

Similarly, regarding the anusvara, if you're trying to transcribe Sanskrit, the standard is to use m with a dot underneath ("ṃ"), which sometimes comes out as just "m" in some fonts. This diacritic has changed in the different Indic and Dravidian languages (see anusvara) into many different sounds. If you're transliterating the spelling, just use "ṃ" or "m" - however, if you're transcribing the pronunciation of the language, you should actually find out how it is pronounced in that particular language.

Basically, there is no enforced standard on Wikipedia for all Indian languages. Many people try to stick to the IAST schemes (see IAST and National Library at Kolkata romanization), which would dictate that the Romanization of any Indian language would be the same, regardless of the actual pronunciation in the individual languages. Thus, the name of the Sanskrit language would be something like "Saṃskṛt-". However, for a number of languages (including Bengali), the tradition on Wikipedia has been to transcribe the name more phonetically, and not making reference to the spelling. If you follow this scheme, the name of the Sanskrit language can be very different depending on the language. Although all Indic and Dravidian languages will spell it something like "saṃskṛt-", it would be transcribed as "Sanskrit" for Hindi, "Sanskrut" for Gujarati/Marathi, "Shôngskrit" for Bengali, etc.

Personally, I don't see any benefit in forcing the IAST scheme on all Indian languages for English-language articles. It doesn't help anyone with understanding how words are actually pronounced in the different languages. Of course, the benefit is that cognates in different languages will look identical, so "Saṃsad" will be "Saṃsad" regardless of the language. Still, I would prefer to see "Sansad" for an article on Hindi (see Saṃsad/Sansad), "Shôngshod" for an article on Bengali (see Jātīya Saṃsad/Jatio Shôngshod), and so on. It seems that the Hindi articles on Wikipedia are not consistent - see if any Hindi-language Wikipedia administrators have a say on this - my guess is that they will tell you to stick to IAST, even if many articles are written in a more phonetic way. Anyhow, this is probably way more than you were asking for...! Sorry about that! --SameerKhan 11:15, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

NPOV - POV - ACCURACY

In September, you replaced the word "liberated" with the word "annexed" in reference to the manner in which a Portuguese colony came under the control of India (ref. Dadra_and_Nagar_Haveli). The reason given was that "annexed" is more NPOV. Shouldn't the choice of words be based on historical fact rather than political correctness? The Wikipedia article on annexed implies that coercion was involved. I am not familiar with this historical event but if we assume for the sake of argument that Portugal was not in favor of losing this colony and India took control of the region in question by force without the inhabitant's permission then "occupied" might be the more accurate choice of words. But if the inhabitants were in favor of this change in power then "liberated" might be the more accurate choice. And, finally, if India and Portugal worked out the transfer of power prior to the event then perhaps the phrase "mutually transferred to Indian control" or something along those lines. Just a thought ... what do you think? :-) JimScott 21:49, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't think that "liberated" can be considered a "historical fact" ever. I am aware that the word appears in history books all over the place, but my own POV would suggest that "liberated" always carries a lot of subjective baggage that could be avoided by using "politically correct" words - I don't have any problem with "political correctness" by the way, when it comes to things that are supposed to be unbiased and objective, like an encyclopedia. Now, maybe "annexed" is not the best choice according to Wikipedia (it sounds objective to me, but I'll stick with the Wikipedia policy), but we still should avoid terms like "liberated" or "conquered" whenever possible, and replace them with "united with", "annexed" (there must be cases where this is appropriate), "took control of", etc., and if necessary, include additional information about the people's attitudes towards the handover (if such information is available). I just don't think the attitudes should be precompiled in the word for the handover of power itself. Anyhow, change the word to whatever seems less POV - as long as we don't use loaded words, I'm quite happy. --SameerKhan 23:27, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

I think the word absorbed is better. I would rather go with liberated (see Goa Inquisition) for the basis of my POV but absorbed seems to be the most NPOV word.Bakaman _Bakatalk 04:26, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Help Needed

Hi, I don't know much about phoneticts. Can you provide the corrects Pronunciation of Cooch Behar. The word is spelled cooch like koch and behar as in the state of bihar. I think you know bengali. I think you will not have much problem after seeing the bengali speeling. Thanks in advance. Amartyabag 16:48, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for providing the IPA of Cooch Behar.Amartyabag 14:08, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Bengali language

I started an FA Drive. Thanks,--ppm 07:45, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

WP Bangladesh

Hi I noticed you werent a member of Wikipedia:WikiProject Bangladesh yet. I think you would make a great member of the project (seeing as the fact that you are one of the more prolific Bangla editors). Once you join you may want to look at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Bangladesh#Userboxto put on your userpage.Bakaman _Bakatalk 06:07, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Dravidian languages

Hi Sameer,Just noticed this edit by you. Well, nothing wrong with the edit, but just reminded me of something I've been wanting to ask you for some time now. Well, about Dravidian languages - I believe Caldwell gave the classification first("Grammar of Teloogoo lang" notwithstanding).

My question is, have you come across any theories that refute Caldwell's classification? The reason I ask is, I find it incredible that a person so very removed(by birth) from the cultures/languages he/she was studying can so very quickly learn dozens of languages so well as to even start classifying them. In other words, Caldwell classified Brahui also under D langs. That means he should have learnt Brahui in addition to the half a dozen other very commonly spoken D langs.

I find it incredible that a person can learn so many languages so well as to get down to classifying them linguistically. I am presuming that for someone to do such classifications, he/she would need to have an in depth knowledge of the language. Am I mistaken? Do linguists work differently? Sarvagnya 17:11, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

No, a historical linguist does not need to learn the whole language in order to classify it. Normally, historical linguists look for specific information (since most of the language is irrelevant for classificatory purposes) - so this excludes most of the vocabulary (since lots of learned words - often the bulk of a language's vocabulary - can be borrowed entirely from an unrelated or distantly-related language), a lot of the more complex parts of the grammar, and many aspects of the phonetics (since these tend to be shared across languages that are geographically close to each other and not necessarily genetically close). The historical linguist will look at "core" vocabulary - like kinship terms, numbers, pronouns, and other items on the Swadesh list - as these are the least likely to be borrowed (there are of course exceptions, like the numbers in many Dravidian languages), some basic verb and noun morphology (case systems, conjugation, etc.), and so on. These are the least likely things to be borrowed, and thus the most likely things to be preserved from parent languages. Historical linguists are more like detectives than straight-out scientists, and within the linguistic community their work is highly scrutinized - so while some classifications like Greenberg's classification of African languages are highly agreed upon and confirmed with further data from several languages, others, including the controversial American language classification by the same man (Greenberg) are only accepted outside the linguistic community (by anthropologists, etc.), as many experts on individual American languages have proven Greenberg's data to be false. The classification of Dravidian languages is relatively uncontroversial in the linguistic community, although many non-linguist Indians take offense to it (I honestly do not understand this)... I don't know the data myself, but from a casual glance at the grammar and basic core vocabulary of Dravidian languages supports the claim that they are totally unrelated to Indo-European languages (except of course for the number terms in some languages). Anyhow, hope that helps. --SameerKhan 19:47, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Thank you very much. I saw your reply yesterday itself but couldnt reply. Anyway, as for why some people take offence to the classification(I DO myself), my feeling(in my case) is that it has less to do with the classification itself as with the actual nomenclature. I certainly dont mind my language(Kannada) being put in the same club as other(drav)languages(infact, I couldnt care less), but I certainly dont want it to be called "Dravidian". "Dravidian" has distinctly "Tamil" connotations too and this grouping has only led to certain stereotypes being furthered. With the advent of a demented Periyar, the founder of the Tamilian Dravidian parties and his brand of Tamil nationalism, Dravidian almost became a dirty word. All this combined with the average north Indian's ignorance of anything 'non-north india' has only fueled the "South Indian = madarasi(sic)" stereotype.

I certainly dont have anything against Tamil or Tamilians and my ties with them goes further than many imagine, but I am also against this classification simply because, the way its been named. The naming has only fueled stereotypes and engendered concocted histories(read Dravidian parties and their ver of history that finds a contrast only in Hitler's interpretation of the 'Aryan race'). The DK and the host of political parties it engendered are probably the only ones(apart from Hitler) to have used the 'Aryan race' theory for political gain.

Infact, if you read Caldwell's book, even he admits that the term "Dravidian" does not fit the context and that he is using it 'reluctantly'. This, in short, is why I am against this classification. This is, for the most part, also the Kannadiga view. I am not sure what others'(who oppose the classification) views would be. Thanks again for explaining. Sarvagnya 16:41, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Hoysala Empire

Hi. I was forwarded to you as someone who could help with the International Phonetic Alphabet rendering for the above mentioned article. Can you help?thanks.Dineshkannambadi 18:26, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

What exactly do you need? --SameerKhan 19:44, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Basically the article needs IPA rendering of the word "Hoysala". The pronounciation is with danta sa (proper Sanskrit danta sa, not like our Bengali universal sa). And the "Hoy" part is with an o-kar in Bengali. I understand nothing of linguistic. So please don't get irritated with my weak effort to reproduce the pronounciation in writing! Could you understand the pronounciation (may be you already know!)? Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 14:52, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Hoysala Empire

Thanks for the IPA. I am the major author of the page in question and a native Kannadiga (I was born and raised in Karnataka though I now live in the USA) I would like to know how I can contribute. From what you wrote, I gather the current Kannada script used in the main article is not accurate?. You may have to explain in simple terms. ThanksDineshkannambadi 21:17, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm no expert on Kannada, but having listened to the alphabet from the audio link on the Kannada page I feel like some of the letters sound the same now. For example, the three "s" letters (ಶ, ಷ, and ಸ) sound like two sounds, not three (ಶ and ಷ sound the same to me). This might be because I'm not a fluent speaker and I'm not hearing the distinction, but my guess is that Kannada is like most other languages of India (both Indic and Dravidian), where those three sounds have collapsed into two sounds (like in Hindi, Gujarati, Marathi...) or even just one sound (like in Assamese, Oriya, Bengali...). I've noticed many language pages on Wikipedia pretend their alphabet is still pronounced as in Sanskrit, and show many more distinctions than there really are in the modern language. Even if there are many letters in the alphabet, that doesn't mean that all of them are pronounced different from each other (in the modern language), even if they were in the past. Since the IPA is supposed to represent the actual pronunciation, it's important to take this seriously and make sure the IPA symbol really represents modern Kannada pronunciation. It's quite possible that the article is right, but I just want to make sure an expert confirms this. --SameerKhan 22:43, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Hi Sameer, thanks for the IPA. I have now added the exact pronunciation in Kannada. Can you please see if the IPA transliteration matches the exact pronunciation. Given my limited understanding of IPA, I could not make out. Thanks -- Naveen ^(talk) 17:01, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Looks/sounds good to me! If you're a native speaker, I'm sure it's good. --SameerKhan 22:43, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I am a native speaker. However,just wanted to confirm if the IPA script was right. Thanks again for your help. -- Naveen ^(talk) 13:30, 20 December 2006 (UTC) 13:29, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

LACMTA Purple Line

Is this official official? I hit up metro.net but it didn't return anything - the rail map is a work-in-progress and "subject to change" on the map itself. I couldn't find a press release or anything that announced the dissolving of the awkward dual Red Line situation - is this official? I'm merely curious because the previous PDF was just a "designation" and "recommendation" and not official. Hbdragon88 01:46, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

You're right; even though Metro has adopted the "purple" designation for the Wilshire subway [1], they haven't made any changes to any existing literature or signage, except for the rail map. They have, however, started to refer to the Purple Line in other areas of the site, including the Expo Line site [2], where it says passengers can transfer to the Red and Purple Lines at 7th/Metro Center, and in references to future extensions, such as the one used in the Huntington Library presentation [3]. Of course, non-Metro-affiliated sources have called it the Purple Line more freely (e.g. the Washington Post [4]), but also mostly with references to the future. I can go through and add notes in the Red and Purple line articles about the intermediate status of their names, but while the current Metro Rail map is posted, I feel like having Purple Line pages is justified (with disclaimers). --SameerKhan 03:11, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, that's cool then. I suppose that the MTA might be waiting for the Canoga stop to open up for them to change the maps - the last few times that I've ridden the rails I recall either seeing "(planned)" on the Canoga stop or it not existing at all. All we can hope now is that they build the darn thing, becuase I find it extremely annoying to have to transfer to Rapid 720 after getting off at Western. Hbdragon88 03:59, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Happy New Year 2007

Happy New Year 2007 !!! Dear SameerKhan, New Year is the time to enjoy, party and rejuvenate oneself with a new spirit and enthusiasm. It is also the time to forget the past and begin a new life. Let us make the New Year’s resolution to: Contribute to the Wikipedia in any way possible. Create as many as possible FA articles. Fight vandalism. Follow Wikiquette Create a feeling of brotherhood with all Wikipedians and everybody on this Earth. I take this as an occasion to wish you and your family the best in the days to come on Wikipedia and in real life. May this New Year invigorate you, bringing you more happiness and content. Happy New Year 2007!!! and Happy Wikipediaing -- Amartyabag (Talk) 16:34, 31 December 2006 (UTC)|}

Orphaned fair use image (Image:LA Blue Line.gif)

Thanks for uploading Image:LA Blue Line.gif. I notice the 'image' page currently specifies that the image is unlicensed for use on Wikipedia and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable under fair use (see our fair use policy).

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Orphaned fair use image (Image:LA Red Line.gif)

Thanks for uploading Image:LA Red Line.gif. I notice the 'image' page currently specifies that the image is unlicensed for use on Wikipedia and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable under fair use (see our fair use policy).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any fair use images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Hbdragon88 22:20, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Orphaned fair use image (Image:LA Gold Line.gif)

Thanks for uploading Image:LA Gold Line.gif. I notice the 'image' page currently specifies that the image is unlicensed for use on Wikipedia and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable under fair use (see our fair use policy).

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Canada

Re "kʰænədə": I didn't think that was right when someone else created this edit, My casual understanding of linguistics gets a little hazy when people drill down to specific phonemes. I was hoping a proper linguist would come along. Would you have a source for this, so we can resist future random edits? Avt tor 22:13, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

There's no real source on this - it's just the convention. The IPA is used for many purposes, from transcribing phonetic utterances to providing an abstract representation of the phonemes in a word. On Wikipedia, foreign words are often transcribed in IPA using all sorts of diacritics and symbols representing the (near-)exact phonetic pronunciation of the word in the foreign language. For English words, however, this is not appropriate. For articles written in an English context, the pronunciation of an English word need not include all the extra information needed to understand how a foreign word is pronounced. You only need the minimal set of symbols and diacritics to understand the pronunciation, and all the extra details (in this case, aspiration, nasalization, tapping, etc.) will be predictable and natural for native speakers. The WP Manual of style recommends using phonetic transcription in [brackets] for foreign words, and in places where the exact English pronunciation (no matter how predictable it is for English speakers) should be described... while it recommends using phonemic transcription in /slashes/ for English words. Of course, if one wanted to write out a phonetic transcription of the English pronunciation of "Canada", they could, in [brackets]... BUT, just adding the aspiration would not be enough. You would need to add the nasalization on the first vowel and the tapping of the /d/ (assuming this is Canadian pronunciation). These things are simply superfluous in my mind, since English speakers aspirate, nasalize, and tap unconsciously - it's part of North American English phonology. Anyhow, I'm rambling... hope this helps a little... --SameerKhan 22:36, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

(Trying to follow what is said) Uh, yeah, thanks for your help. I'm not sure what "nasalization" or "tapping" mean here, but I'll trust you. :) Avt tor 22:49, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Metro Map

good catch! they are on my master copy though... so i just need to re-upload the image? do you have any suggestions for the maps? RickyCourtney 04:23, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, about the Harbor Transitway... I made a few executive decisions about how to show it on the map... Metro only shows it from 7th/Metro to Artesia... but if we wanna get technical the "Transitway" (the elevated section with carpool lanes) only runs from Adams/Flower to Artesia, on the other hand the Harbor Freeway has 2 other stations Carson and PCH, which buses that use the transitway use on their way to San Pedro... but about Union Station most of the routes using the transitway start or end their trips at Union Station (some also stop at Civic and Pershing so thats why I put it going near them) maybe I'm wrong but the logic made since at the time.RickyCourtney 18:55, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

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dravidian languages/race

Sir, I believe you are vastly more experienced in the issue of Aryan and Dravidian languages than anyone else I know of on wikipedia. I believe you may be able to help abate an arguement that is brewing on the connection (or lack of it) between Dravidian languages and Dravidian race (if one really exists). This debate has been opened on the wiki page Yakshagana. Please find time to provide your opinion on this issue. If you read the discussion on the discussion page, it will become more clear what the issue is.thanks.Dineshkannambadi 03:44, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for the information you have shared. It has been a pleasure reading your post.thanksDineshkannambadi 13:26, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Jana Gana Mana

I'm not sure if you saw my comments on the talk page of the article - from the comment you made, it seems you didn't. Why do you think Wikipedia should use a non-standard transliteration system when there is an internationally recognised, academically accepted system standard (propounded by the ISO, no less) for transliterating Indic scripts?

In addition, the suggestion that ISO 15919 be used had been made several days ago by a user on the article's discussion page with absolutely no opposition expressed. -- Homi Dastur 18:01, 9 February 2007 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 193.62.18.38 (talk) 18:03, 9 February 2007 (UTC).

A Token of Gratitude

I would like to take the time to thank you for your unbiased take in regards on the Yakshagana talk page. There has been a growing biasedness on that page in regards to the topic on Dravidians in general. I have been challenged to show referenced sources to prove my claims and I have done so every step of the way. Also, not a single soul was able to present referenced sources to back their claims on this case. Furthermore, they have refused to do so. Anyways, enough with all this. Thank you again for posting your comments and for taking a neutral stand. Truly commendable. Wiki Raja 02:00, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

RE:no problem

“ thanks for your kind words. i'm sorry i couldn't help further. seems like the discussion has gotten ridiculously out of hand. quite admirable of you to keep fighting so professionally! --SameerKhan 02:30, 11 February 2007 (UTC) ”

Thanks. Wiki Raja 02:33, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi

Sarvagnya's incivility towards myself and others has been pushed to the limit. A report has been made against him on the Incident Noticeboard. I have been handling a lot of these discussions with diplomacy as much as I can. Now Sarvagnya is accusing me of trolling and vandalism. Could you please post something in regards to this issue on Problems with user Sarvagnya. If you cannot, then I understand. Regards. Wiki Raja 21:18, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Bengali transliteration

Well, I am sure I have no opinion on this. The point is, whatever transliteration scheme you're going to use, you'll need to identify it. The Bengali article as I found it did not identify the scheme it was using in any way, so I changed this to the only system I could find. I have no objection whatsoever if you're going to use any other officially defined standard, as long as it is clearly named and identified in the article. regards, dab (𒁳) 21:18, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject History of Bangladesh

WikiProject History of Bangladesh has started. It needs members and participants. Aditya Kabir 11:52, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Marathi and English

Hi sameer, "lots of people" is an understatement! Perhaps you are aware about the RSS and their crazy notions about the Aryan race and Indic civilizations that fly against the face of logic and archaeological fact. Take a look at the Out of India Theory --Deepak D'Souza 08:54, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Greetings

Happy Holi !!--Dwaipayan (talk) 06:03, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Help in Kaziranga

Hello, This is a long time we have not communicated. I need your help again, can you provide the correct IPA and IAST of Kaziranga National Park. Moreover you can copyedit some of the part specially the history section. So, thanks in advance. Amartyabag ^TALK2ME 08:12, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Sameer, I have written the correct Assamese name of Kaziranga National Park. Can you please help write the IPA and IAST ? Bikram98 21:03, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

I think I have the right Assamese transliteration right now (the one from the Assamese language page. I don't see any use in putting in the IAST version, as it hardly represents Assamese pronunciation. If the transliteration looks right to you, I included the IPA version on the Kaziranga talk page. Unfortunately as I am not an Assamese speaker, I am not the best at transcribing the language unless I can hear it. Of course, if you could attach a recording, I could give you a much more confident answer! --SameerKhan 06:35, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Looks OK, considering other transliterals. For your ref, I am recording this file - [5]. However, I have doubt regarding the use of "ô". If it is like the "o" in the English word "boy", then, in Assamese, I think this pronounciation is used only occationally and represented by an 'urdhacoma' like in ল'ৰা, ক'লা. But, unlike in Bengali, অ or the neutral vowel is more like the "o" of "bore", "more"; like in অসম, কমল etc. - Bikram98 08:25, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Okay I updated the IPA and added your recording (hope you don't mind!). The use of ô is slightly different across Bengali and Assamese. Both of them use ô as an inherent vowel, but the exact quality is slightly different. Still, both can be transcribed in IPA using /ɔ/. In Bengali, there is another "o"-like vowel, o (IPA /o/), and in Assamese, there are two more: o (IPA /o/) and å (IPA /ɒ/), which does not exist in Bengali. This å (IPA /ɒ/) is used in words like påt "to bury" (IPA /pɒt/). A comparison with English is not helpful, since the dialects of English vary primarily in their vowel sounds, and it's hard for me to know what vowel you're referring to by using English examples like "boy" and "bore", since for me, those both have /o/ in them. --SameerKhan 21:17, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for providing the IPA of Kaziranga. can you help further in copyediting the text? Amartyabag ^TALK2ME 10:43, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Peer review/Shahbag/archive2

I have just put the article to peer review. Would you care to take a look? Aditya Kabir 20:46, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Meitei language

The grammar section is nonexistent. I found a book on Manipuri Grammar, but since I am not a linguist, all the terms like subjunctive, etc are Greek to me. I was hoping you could look into it, and perhaps provide the Nagari (Bengali) transliteration, as Meitei Mayek is more or less nonexistent.Bakaman 16:48, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Just for kicks "Nang Mayânglôn khangbrâ ?".Bakaman 17:01, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the link! I will check this out. --SameerKhan 05:29, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Sylheti language

Hi Sameer, can you, as a linguist, fix the article with references and actual linguistic viewpoints on the language? BTW, I'll be in CA this summer :). thanks. --Ragib 03:54, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Responded on your talk page. --SameerKhan 20:31, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Request

Hi! Once again a request for IPA. Could you please create the IPA for Lage Raho Munna Bhai? Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 16:37, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Done. --SameerKhan 20:30, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Wow! Thanks a lot. And the article is in FAC now. Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 20:41, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

My pleasure - yah I see that it's a FAC! Best, --SameerKhan 20:43, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Request!

Due to a revert some edits of yours were lost. Since I do not know to handle Bangla script I couldn't include them in the new version. Can you please re-edit. Sorry for the inconvenience caused. --~KnowledgeHegemony~ 13:34, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Request re:Bengali calendar

Hello, thanks for the huge help on the Bengali calendar page; however, the article lacks references and in-line citations... could you please add your ref sources to the article? It would be a big improvement. The article has the potential to become a FA, please help! Thanx, --WoodElf 07:32, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Need help at Mehfil

Hi, might you be able to add the Devanagari/Hindi spelling for Mehfil? Badagnani 18:18, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Hindi talk page

Remember that long discussion on aspirated consonants we had there? The one you ended with your "nitpicky" comment? I finally got down to writing something in reply :) If you prefer, I could post it here, but in any case it's right here: [6]. --Kuaichik 15:39, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

I see! Thanks for your insight into Malayalam. Yes, I agree with you; the Malayalam case looks similar to the Indic case with respect to borrowed sounds, the effect of literacy, and variable pronunciation. --SameerKhan 04:51, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Yay, you're back! :) BTW, I was wondering, are you, by any chance, a "second-generation" Indian (like me)?

And now for a bit of idle chatter, if you don't mind. I noticed your comments here on Teach Yourself Bengali, and I agree; I recently bought it myself. I particularly found the fourth chapter in Part II really hard (too much new grammar and too little explanation). --Kuaichik 05:08, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

I am a second-generation something, although I don't know what. My parents left Dhaka before Bangladesh gained independence, so technically they left as Pakistani citizens. However, they are now US citizens (as am I, for being born here), and they call themselves either Bengalis or Bangladeshis, but never Indians or Pakistanis. I usually say that I'm American of Bengali heritage, or that my parents come from a country that doesn't exist anymore (and I tell them the story I told you if they care to ask further). --SameerKhan 03:58, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

LOL, that almost sounds like the kind of explanation I have to give when Westerners ask why my last name looks like a first name! Kintu aami bujhi. --Kuaichik 02:19, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

বাংলা তো ভালই বললেন! Bangla to bhalo-i bollen! --SameerKhan 02:49, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Oh, thanks! Urrrgh, I'm going to wait until my computer crashes and hope it's easier to install Indic fonts then than it seems to be now! And why do they always look so small?? --Kuaichik 03:04, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Hm, I don't know! I use Mozilla Firefox and my default Bengali fonts are "Bangla" and "Likhan" at 16pt. It looks great to me! Make sure that your "complex fonts" option is on and that your browser uses Unicode encoding. --SameerKhan 03:11, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Huh. Oh, well, my computer is somewhat likely to crash pretty soon. And I may start using another one soon anyway. Maybe I should've just downloaded "Bangla" and "Likhan," though it would be a shame for me to be able to read Bangla and not Malayalam!! :-D --Kuaichik 03:43, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Invite

Please accept this invite to join the Bangladesh History Workgroup, a subproject dedicated to improving Bangladesh history related articles. To join, simply click here and add your name to the bottom of the list! Aditya Kabir 14:59, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Language movement FAC

Bhasha Andolon / Language movement is under FAC now. Could you please spare some time, and take a look at the article? It needs copyediting, and handling of some concerns expressed at the FAC page. Thanks. --Ragib 08:38, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Gone to review

I have put myself for an editor review at Wikipedia:Editor review/Aditya Kabir. Check. Aditya Kabir 05:08, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Metro Rail Future Map

Hey, SameerKhan. I uploaded a new version of the future system map, hopefully you will think it's better. Next time if you find objection with a map, before you delete it, give me a heads up. I'm more than willing to fix the maps. RickyCourtney 19:00, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Bangladesh portal

Hi, I'd like to draw your attention to Bangladesh portal. I have tried to address the concerns in earlier peer review and checked the portal against Featured portal criteria. Based on this I think it is proper time to push for Featured Portal status for Bangladesh Portal, which will be an important milestone for WikiProject Bangladesh. But to achieve this I need help from you. Please participate in the on-going discussion on the talk page and give me your valuable inputs.-Arman Aziz 03:46, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Need your help with Jagadish Chandra Bose

You may have noticed that Jagadish Chandra Bose recently had a GA review and it failed. The review comments are available at: Talk:Jagadish_Chandra_Bose#Failed_GA. I have tried to address as many concerns as I can and still working on some. But there are a few areas which need input from the earlier references that were used.

I see that you contributed significantly to this article earlier. I'd request your help to address the concerns mentioned in the GA review. Let's collaborate to make this article a Good Article. Arman ^(Talk) 01:35, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Assamese script/vowels etc

Though it is believed that Assamese does not have a long "i", it actually does. Consider সি (to sew), which is distinguished from the সি ("he") by the elongated vowel. It is just that standard Assamese spelling don't follow the phenome, but the the standard Sanskrit spelling. I cannot find a regular work that has studied this, but a note on Assamese pronunciation (or spelling, I forget) in the beginning of the "Chandrakanta Abhidhan" (2nd edition) mentions this and other oddities. Chaipau (talk) 17:02, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I have asked User:Priyankoo for his comments. I am no linguist, unfortunately... Chaipau (talk) 19:11, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Hi, thanks for the message. It has been documented numerous times (Golok Goswami, Shakuntala Mahanta etc) that Assamese does not have vowel length distinction and I go with that observation. I did a coursework project in 2003 on vowel length in Assamese and I did not find any evidence for any significant vowel length distinction. Honestly speaking, if you say তই সি in Assamese, I will be confused whether you mean "You stitch!" or "You are him". I think I can send you some references in this regard sometime, but can't promise when :p.

best Priyankoo (talk) 23:58, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Sameer, ur welcome...I also owe you an answer for one of your earlier posts on my talk page. Maybe in the as wp!! best--Priyankoo (talk) 06:14, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

IPA of Sitakunda

Can u provide the IPA of Sitakunda Upazila. Thanks for ur help earlier and now. Amartyabag ^TALK2ME 11:12, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

ro-kar

Could you let me know what OS and browser you use?

Have you installed the Indic language pack?

Have you visited our website www.xobdo.org ? In the help section, you might find some answers.

best Priyankoo (talk) 20:22, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Good to know that. Was the solution available at xobdo.org ? If not I will add it sometime.

I see that you are interested in prosody. Maybe Shyamal Das's dissertation on OT account of Tripuri Bengali may be of help. Also Shakuntala Mahanta has worked extensively on Assamese prosody. Maybe you already got these references, but tossing in my 2 cents. Both authors' dissertations are available at ROA http://roa.rutgers.edu/index.php3 Best --Priyankoo (talk) 22:11, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Assamese

Check Talk:Assamese_language#Recent_edits. I reverted without looking, but yeah now lets talk about it. Tuncrypt (talk) 20:38, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Magadhi Prakrit

Hi,

Could you respond to questions at Talk:Magadhi Prakrit? This is in reference to statements in the article that were in the original version that you wrote.—Nat Krause^{(Talk!·What have I done?)} 15:36, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Hi from Brook

Hi Sameer, Good to hear from you. (I don't need to be anonymous! I don't think BLillehaugen is very anonymous anyway :). I've been working on the Zapotec language page and a little bit on Pam's. I see you've been very busy! So cool! Saludos de México. Come visit us some time. -bdl Blillehaugen (talk) 02:08, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Eastern Nagari script

Hi Sameer, I think your recent edits on Eastern Nagari script is very Bangla specific. One of the differences in the use of the script in the different languages is the system of Juktakhars. I believe Eastern Nagari Script should remain the overview of these scripts and leave the specific details to Bengali script, Assamese script and others. Chaipau (talk) 13:12, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

As far as I can tell, the looks of the conjuncts are similar, but their uses are different. The sets of usable conjuncts in the two scripts are different because they have followed independent paths of evolution. For example, there used to be triple conjuncts (জ+জ+ব) in Assamese, which fell into disuse at some point. I don't know whether triple conjuncts still exist in Bengali. One particular conjunct in Bengali (ক্ষ) is considered an individual letter in the Assamese script for all practical purposes. And some of the rules that you mention may not apply in Assamese. Chaipau (talk) 21:07, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

You are probably correct and the conjunct information does belong in that page. I am sorry for the trouble. I shall add whatever I can, in the course of time. And thanks. Chaipau (talk) 12:42, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Westside (Los Angeles County)

We need Sources for the above article. Can you help. Sincerely, GeorgeLouis (talk) 19:00, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Clarification of my rv

Both the Eastern Nagari script article and Genealogy of scripts derived from Proto-Sinaitic mention Eastern Nagari to be descended from Nāgarī rather than Siddhaṃ. There seems to be some confusion altogether, but I think the best (with regards to clarity and minimizing work) would be to first synchronize the Genealogy with Template:Brahmic, and then adjust the genealogies in the userboxes where necessary. Joost (talk) 21:40, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Another editor already pointed that out to me, I'm okay with it. :) Joost (talk) 22:02, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Happy New Year

❤ শুভ নববর্ষ ❤

May the year be full of joy and happiness and lots of featured articles. May the year bring no pain or hardship or ArbComs. May the force and those Jedi Knights be always with you. Live long and prosper, longer and better than those pointy-eared Vulcan people. Aditya^{(talk • contribs)}

IPA needed

Hi! can you please put the IPA in Pather Panchali? Also, this "Pôther Pãchali" - what is this? Is this International Alphabet of Sanskrit Transliteration?--Dwaipayan (talk) 19:06, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Ok. So it is Romanization of Bengali. Should not that be indicated there in the article? And also, should not the IPA be indicated as well (I mean, it should be stated that "Pôther Pãchali" is Romanization of Bengali, with proper wikilink). Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 05:22, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Oh, thanks a lot. No, I do not have any question now. But have to refer to you time and again for any such language/IPA related information or tasks :) Thanks a lot, once again. Bye the way, I am gradually trying to upgrade/improve Pather Panchali. Any kind of input will be extremely valuable. Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 05:46, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject films peer review of Pather Panchali

Pather Panchali, an Indian film directed by Satyajit Ray, is one of the Core articles in wikiproject film. The article is at the WikiProject Films' peer review section here. Please provide inputs. Thanks a lot. Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 12:48, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Bengali language FAR

Bengali language has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. Nishkid64 _{(Make articles, not wikidrama)} 03:11, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Your help is badly needed to save the article. Probably only you have ready sources to provide citations in the article.--Dwaipayan (talk) 18:05, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

[7]

Just noticed. Congratulations!! :) --Kuaichik (talk) 04:44, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

hope you don't mind my edits!

Not at all, thanks for the corrections.--Fogeltje (talk) 16:19, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Romanisation of Bengali

Hi Sameer. Could you please weigh in at Talk:Bengali script, on both issues? -- Arvind (talk) 09:10, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Bengali script

If you have time, could you add a section on spelling-to-pronunciation inconsistencies in the Bengali script? I sort of mentioned in the Bengali language article that an interested reader would find those in Bengali script. But, unfortunately, I just can't manage the time and resources to do this myself at the moment. There is a small subsection on this topic in the Bengali language article itself. May be you can draw materials from it. Thanks. --Zaheen (talk) 18:31, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

I started the Bengali script#Inconsistencies section. Please take a look. --Zaheen (talk) 09:33, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Re: the writing system section in Bengali language, you wrote [kʰːo] to denote ক্ষ (রুক্ষ [rukʰːo] "rugged"). But wouldn't that mean "রুখ্‌খো"? The word is actually pronounced "রুক্‌খো". I think there's a problem here. --Zaheen (talk) 01:37, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

That's a valid concern, but don't worry. What are transcribed as long aspirated consonants (like [kʰː]) are not typically assumed to have two separate burst/aspiration portions. It is just assumed that the closure duration (the silent portion of the [k]) is longer. If we wanted to transcribe "রুখ্‌খো" as in rukh-kho, assuming two separate kh sounds were audibly heard, it would be transcribed [kʰkʰ] (separate releases/bursts, with separate aspiration), not [kʰː] (longer duration). The length mark [ː] means the overall duration is increased, while the number of bursts is not. The real issue is that the Bengali script (and Indic scripts in general) do not distinguish unreleased stops from stops without a vowel. (On a related note, in Gujarati, they write things like "রুখ্‌খো", but they still pronounce them as if they were spelled "রুক্‌খো".) --SameerKhan (talk) 15:51, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

I tried to figure out what happens inside my mouth when I pronounce ক্ষ. There are definitely two stages. First I stop the airflow as if I am pronouncing ক্‌ without the inherent vowel, then a few milliseconds later I release the airflow while maintaining the ক position, resulting in a খ. Are you saying this is adequately captured by the [kʰː] transcription? If you say so. You are the phonologist. :) --Zaheen (talk) 22:29, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Your intuition on the articulation is exactly right. ক, খ, and ক্ষ all share a silent closure portion (with ক্ষ it is longer), and they all share a release of the air upon lowering of the back of the tongue. The release of ক involves less airflow than that of খ or ক্ষ, so the latter two are considered aspirated. You can lengthen the closure portion of ক, so you just have a longer ক with nothing changed in the burst/release. That's basically like ক্‌ক, where the first ক has no audible sound, and is only perceived by the long duration of silence. If you lengthen a খ, it's assumed that it's the silent portion that gets longer, not the release. That's exactly the same as when we lengthened the ক, as only the silent closure portion is lengthened. The release/burst that makes it recognizably খ instead of ক is still only at the very end, with high airflow/aspiration. Lengthening খ to ক্ষ does not mean that the aspiration will be lengthened, or that it will happen twice. It just means the silence is held longer. Since the part of ক that can be lengthened to ক্ক and the part of খ that can be lengthened to ক্ষ (i.e. the silent closed part) are identical, [kʰː] is in fact the ideal transcription of the ক্ষ sound. --SameerKhan (talk) 23:43, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

I see. So, when dealing with stops, the lengthening symbol [ː] indicates a lengthening of the silent closure portion before the release. Interesting. Thanks for clearing that up for me.--Zaheen (talk) 00:31, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Yep, exactly! Glad to help. --SameerKhan (talk) 00:35, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Incidentally, wouldn't ক্ষ be homophonous with ঃখ, then? --Zaheen (talk) 00:36, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

That's correct. Originally, ঃখ was pronounced [hkʰ], but over time, the [h] assimilated entirely to match the following sound, and is now just [kʰː]. --SameerKhan (talk) 00:46, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Continuing on, বিচ্ছিরি should be transcribed as [bitʃʰ:iri] then, not [bittʃʰiri]? I have talked on this and some other stuff in Talk:Bengali phonology. Could you take a look at it if you have time? --Zaheen (talk) 00:55, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Correct. For consistency as well as for disambiguating purposes, it's best to transcribe বিচ্ছিরি as [bitʃʰ:iri]. Of course, it's a more complicated issue with affricates, as they have two distinct portions (the closure and the fricated release), in addition to the release/burst. --SameerKhan (talk) 23:59, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

I have made a few more changes to Bengali Script, some cosmetic and some fairly substantive. Please take a look and comment. --Zaheen (talk) 00:20, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Bengali phonology

I raised an issue there. Pls take a look. --Zaheen (talk) 19:21, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Syntactic Structures

Hello Sameer, congratulations on your move to Cornell! I was checking their course listings and your name popped up. BTW, could you review the Syntactic Structures article if you have a little spare time? I added a lot to it recently. A second opinion would be nice. --Zaheen (talk) 23:36, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Hi Zaheen, thanks! But I was only there for a one-semester position. In fact, my position is already over so I'm already back in California. I'll check out the article. --SameerKhan (talk) 10:27, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Tripura Bengali

Do you think Tripura Bengali should be added to the Bengali dialects article? In Tripura the Bengali-speaking people talk predominantly using a combination of Dhaka, Mymensingh and Comilla dialects (with a smattering of Noakhali, Chittagong and Sylhet). However, this amalgam of East Bengal dialects apparently has some distinctive features of its own, so the linguists from Tripura consider it a full-fledged dialect of Bengali. Are you aware of this? I think Tripura Bengali should be mentioned but am hesitant about how and where to put it in the scheme of the dialects article. Let me know what you think of this. --Zaheen (talk) 17:47, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Sure, it can be mentioned. It falls under the Eastern Dialect group, as you said, but I'm not sure if it is any more distinct than other eastern dialects. Do you have a reference? I've read Das's work on Tripura Bengali stress, and it sounds a lot like other far-eastern dialects to me. --SameerKhan (talk) 21:50, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Well my primary reference is also Das 2002. I was glossing over it. In the intro he writes that mentioning Tripura Bengali as a distinct dialect of Bengali has been in vogue among Tripuran linguists since at least the 1970s. That's what prompted me to ask you in the first place. But after consulting some more work, I am now not sure if it is distinct enough to have its own section. For example, Sylheti and Chittagongian is clearly quite extreme and distinct from the more general eastern and south-eastern dialects. Maybe Tripura Bengali is not so distinct that it merits special treatment. It is perhaps better to mention it under the more general Easter dialects heading. --Zaheen (talk) 16:41, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Yah, that sounds more reasonable to me as well. --SameerKhan (talk) 10:30, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Bangla sample text transliteration

Hi Sameer, would you mind responding to my comment on the Bengali language talk page? Thanks! Bʌsʌwʌʟʌ ^{Speak up!} 22:29, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

You are now a Reviewer

Hello. Your account has been granted the "reviewer" userright, allowing you to review other users' edits on certain flagged pages. Pending changes, also known as flagged protection, is currently undergoing a two-month trial scheduled to end 15 August 2010.

Reviewers can review edits made by users who are not autoconfirmed to articles placed under pending changes. Pending changes is applied to only a small number of articles, similarly to how semi-protection is applied but in a more controlled way for the trial. The list of articles with pending changes awaiting review is located at Special:OldReviewedPages.

When reviewing, edits should be accepted if they are not obvious vandalism or BLP violations, and not clearly problematic in light of the reason given for protection (see Wikipedia:Reviewing process). More detailed documentation and guidelines can be found here.

If you do not want this userright, you may ask any administrator to remove it for you at any time. Courcelles (talk) 18:36, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia–Wikimedia Meetup
Kolkata, India

(view · edit · changes)

Hunterian transliteration for Bengali - a way to end the OR issue

Hi, could you please engage on the Bengali script talkpage on a comment I left there. The Wiki standard is definitely OR and should be replaced (I know there was painful consensus behind it). However, I feel that virtually all of it will survive intact as non-OR by linking it to Hunterian transliteration, which was shockingly uncovered in Wikipedia though it is the fundamental fabric on which most Indic transliteration has been built over the past 150 years or so. I am doing this for Hindi-Urdu as well. --Hunnjazal (talk) 21:39, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Bengali script

Hey Sameer, long time. Could you please have a talk with User:Kwamikagami. He has been making some changes in the Bengali script article, including the title. --Zaheen (talk) 03:59, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

Eastern Nagari alphabet

Notice: The article you created, Eastern Nagari alphabet, has been proposed for deletion by another user. Northamerica1000^(talk) 19:31, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Request for IPA

Hi, how are you? Please see the following sentence in "Etymology" section of Kolkata -- "While the city's name has always been pronounced "Kolkatā" or "Kolikatā" in Bengali..."

Can you please provide with IPA pronunciation for Kolkata and Kalikata? The article is in WP:FARC, and this have been requested. Thanks a lot. Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 05:34, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

Thank you! Please have another look, as I have put the Bengali fonts within brackets to help flow of reading. Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 19:51, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

Done!--SameerKhan (talk) 01:11, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Thanks a lot! Do you think kilkila would also need IPA? It seems it is pronounced as it is spelled in English.--Dwaipayan (talk) 01:36, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

No problem! Re kilkila, it's up to you. --SameerKhan (talk) 06:44, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

I think the IPA pronunciation of kilkila would be needed in the Etymology section, as all other Bengali words have IPA pronunciations in that section. Can you help, please? Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 18:59, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Talkback

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» nafSadh did say 18:09, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Thank you

...for your improvements to Pohnpeian language. I've recently put in lots of time hoping to expand it. I'm very glad that you've taken some interest. Thank you again for your thoughtful improvements. Cheers! JFHJr (㊟) 17:24, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

My pleasure! As a phonologist, the language is really fascinating to me. --SameerKhan (talk) 02:56, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

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2013 Shahbag Protest

Hi Sameer, you have removed a huge information from lead of 2013 Shahbag Protest article. All the info were with corresponding source. It is clear violation of WP:LEAD rule, as it says The lead should be able to stand alone as a concise overview. It should define the topic, establish context, explain why the topic is notable, and summarize the most important points—including any prominent controversies. Please before reverting discuss on talk page. Thank you.--Freemesm (talk) 12:39, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Hi Freemesm. Thanks for your message. As I mentioned in the talk page for the article, I didn't remove the information from the lead. I just moved it to an "Overview" section that I created, so that it would be just below the table of contents, instead of above it (which was creating awkward white space). Having all the info in the lead, above the table of contents, puts far too much detail into the lead, whereas that info should be either in the timeline/history section, or (as I placed it) in the Overview section. Also, the earlier version creates awkward white space below the lead (to the right of the table of contents).

Can you please check again and confirm that my revision does not remove info, but just places it in the new section labeled "Overview"? Thanks! --SameerKhan (talk) 13:32, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

We may continue this discussion to that article's talk page. Thank you.--Freemesm (talk) 13:52, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Dear SameerKhan, after waiting few hours, I've reverted the article to previous version. The cause is explained on article's talk page. It seems you have better ability in writing articles according to wiki rules and a native English language user. Would you please rewrite the lead shortly as all the existing info will be there. Then we can move details on overview section. Hundreds of newbies are participated to enrich that article. So the whole article needed to be make descent. Can you help please? Actually I've started this article, that's why I care about that. Past few days I'm patrolling this article to protect from vandals. Would you please help to make this to a high quality article? Thanks in advance.--Freemesm (talk) 18:35, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

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Awesome!

SameerKhan,

Thank you for your recent additions of Bengali script and transliterations to List of newspapers in Bangladesh. Your edits improved the page and are greatly appreciated. Crtew (talk) 22:26, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

My pleasure! --SameerKhan (talk) 07:25, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

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A barnstar for you!

The Original Barnstar

Hi, thanks for the english transliteration of Gitanjali. I would love to know if there is a version of Gitanjali from any publications having transliterations and the translations. I've seen books with the bangla text and then the translation. But unfortunately I haven't seen any with transliteration. I am desperately looking for one. Would you know of any books which have it? Many thanks! Karthik Skarthikgopal (talk) 07:58, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

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Invite

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Pronunciation of terms for the Rohingya

Hi. Several years ago you edited the article on the Rohingya people, adding IPA pronunciations. There have subsequently been a couple changes -- can you check whether they are correct? And I don't understand why the Burmese word transliterated rui hang gya would be pronounced /ɹòhɪ̀ɴɡjà/ -- for instance, why would "hang" be pronounced /hɪ̀ɴɡ/? Eric Kvaalen (talk) 19:08, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

The IPA I see on there now is correct - thanks for checking. The Burmese writing system is very complicated, partially due to all the phonological changes that have occurred in the language since it was first written down, and the writing system hasn't really been updated to reflect this. One of the strange facts about the alphabet is that to write the [o] vowel, you have to combine the vowel diacritic for [u] (below the consonant) with the vowel diacritic for [i] (above the consonant). That's just the convention, sort of how the way we write the [aɪ] diphthong in English is typically by combining "i" (which normally has the "ee" sound in every other language) to the left of the consonant with an otherwise silent "e" to the right; it's just a convention that reflects an old pronunciation that has since changed.

Similarly, the fact that hang is pronounced /hɪ̀ɴ/ is because palatal and velar consonants like ng historically raised preceding vowels, to the point that what's written a is pronounced /ɪ/ in that position. It's sort of the reverse of English thing being pronounced thang.

I'd recommend checking out the MLC_Transcription_System page to see more details on how the transliteration scheme for Burmese is devised. -SameerKhan (talk) 22:45, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

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