User talk:Salgo60/Archive

WikiProject Genealogy

I have revamped WikProject Genealogy with new goals. Your help and feedback are appreciated. Tea and crumpets (talk) 17:34, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

Europeana Collections

Hi! I see that you have been adding links to the Europeana Collections to a large number of articles. Do you have editor consensus for these additions? I ask because it appears to be a gravely flawed resource – of the twelve results on the first page you linked to from William Nicholson (artist), only two were actually by him, and fewer than half had any conceivable relevance to him whatsoever. The text in the page is taken from our article. Overall, it appears to be considerably worse than useless. May I suggest that you stop linking to it until and unless there is consensus that it is a worthwhile resource? Thank you, Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 20:56, 4 January 2020 (UTC)

@Justlettersandnumbers: please let me know were we can have this discussion maybe we should create a project. We use it in the sv:Wikipedia since a week and I have added an entry in the teahouse regarding the template I created link

I have also written a summary of my experience so far of the Wikipedia <-> Wikidata <-> Europeana work I have done, that I am sending as feedback to the Europeana people see link GLAM/Newsletter/December_2019/Contents/Wikidata_report/P7704 (your feedback is in chapter "Quality of Europeana matches?")

My impressions

1. Europeana is moving direction Entities i.e. the same approach as Wikidata
2. A lot of uploaded data is just added as strings not matched to THINGS in Europeana
3. They have started understand that to make things findable you need "Linked data" and entities
   1. they started with copy 160 000 entities from dbpedia i.e. yes its the same text as in Wikipedia -->
      1. good its easy for Wikipedia/Wikidata to match see my Task T240290
      2. bad its a very big work to match all Europeanas uploaded institutions material to those entities today they have 57,817,058 artworks, artefacts, books, films and music...
4. My experience from Sweden and culture institutions is that a few institutions have some experience with "Linked data" but its more "strings than things" and moving in direction Wikidata needs new skills that are difficult to find in todays archives/museum organisations...

I see the Europeana project as a very positive project but I guess they need help how to progress. I can see we have a perfect match Wikipedia <-> Europeana and we need to find out how we can help each other as I see both projects has the same goal and in a perfect world we get more archives/museums upload material to Europeana and we can easier find related objects... my feeling is that some countries are better than other matching, Swedish archives are not the best in the class and we have a lot of metadatadebt/ mismatches that as you say can be questioned if we should link from Wikipedia and some are excellent....

My documented tasks

• Task T240290 "Europeana Entity <-> Wikidata Property 7704"
• Task T240738 "More than 1200 Europeana Entities reference deleted Wikidata objects"
• Task T240809 "Workflow/version management needed when Europeana reference wrong person in Wikidata and in Europeana"
• Task T241552 "Create Wiki Template Europeana on Swedish Wikipedia"
• Task T241677 "Europeana Wiki templates in more language versions"

Thanks for feedback and please advice how we progress. I hope the Europeana people will join the discussion as I guess this is about having a dialogue how to make this in the best way and also what tools to use and also learn from each other. I can see many excellent qualities with an open plattform like WIkipedia/Wikidata that maybe the Europeana platform can use

• Wikipedia/Wikidata always has
  • the possibility to see version history
  • rollback bad changes
  • possibility to see who did what
  • easy way to give feedback on discussion pages and track progress
  • Phabricator for more advanced tracking see my Europeana Task Graph and Wikidata backlog
    • Everyone can add a comment to engineering
    • You have backlogs with priorities
    • You can subscribe on a task and get a notification when its in production
    • You can ping a person to get his/hers attention

- Salgo60 (talk) 22:11, 4 January 2020 (UTC)

I mentioned this discussion in the GLAM group on FB in a discussion about Dataroundtripping link - Salgo60 (talk) 01:57, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Europeana

A tag has been placed on Category:Europeana requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the category has been empty for seven days or more and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. UnitedStatesian (talk) 02:03, 16 January 2020 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Europeana entity

Template:Europeana entity has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Fram (talk) 11:01, 22 January 2020 (UTC)

Salgo60, thank you so much for accepting my suggestion of seeking consensus for the use of this template, which I've just deleted. I hope it was clear to you – as it was to me – from the various discussions that the problem was with the quality of the data rather than the deployment of the template itself; I'd have said so in those discussions if I'd known that they were taking place. I also hope that you are not too disappointed at the final outcome. I'm not much of a barnstar sort of person, but if I was I'd be leaving you one. Regards, Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 20:55, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

@Justlettersandnumbers: update I think what we see is that Europeana has enormous problems sending around more than text than same as I have an dialogue with the Europeana people but I feel that > 3000 museums doesnt have the skills of aggregating data and using Linked data saying that my artist in museum A is the same as artist B in museum B

• see blog Carl Larsson who is that - sadly Europeana doesnt know --> #Metadatadebt
• a quality framework of Europeana a person has created were we can see that they dont send coordinates or nearly never same as see Metadata Quality Assurance Framework for Europeana
• a try I do to see if we can help them with the quality data we have in Wikipedia/Wikidata see T251225
• I have also spoken to more museum metadata specialist in Sweden and Norway working at museums delivering quality metadata that they are very disappointed of the quality of Europeana but normally they are "just" metadata specialist and dont understand how Linked data should be sent to Europeana or why its not done
  • also the Europeana network feels missing basic tools like
    • good trackable error reporting
    • you never get a helpdesk id
    • notification/ping if things are fixed or you get get feedback

My conclusion is

1. that a museum network is not technical mature to deliver quality metadata to an aggregated service like Europeana the future will tell if I sadly is correct
2. a museum network has not a culture of change management or communication between museums saying same as
3. an open network like Wikipedia
   1. has engaged users
   2. if something feels wrong most users change it directly and as the platform is open they can change it
   3. there is a culture that Wikipedia article/data needs to be changed to get better and noone/most people are not afraid of challenge another user and many people are doing it
   4. Wikipedia has a history of being able solving problems as same as between 300 wiki languages having interwiki links for nearly all articles and we have developed good tools to support this....

I have a background in delivering IT systems for international money transaction were a change process/communication/helpdesk id always existed. I am convinced that we need better tools and better ways of communicating with organisations delivering external data to Wikipedia. As an organisation with > 3000 museums like Europeana cant do it I guess we need to do it on our side,,, I did yesterday a draft setting up "staging areas" with possibility to track changes/communicate/ping/subscribe on errors/problems between Wikipedia and an external data source... see T251225#6105481 the future will tell if this is possible and if it adds value

- Salgo60 (talk) 05:13, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

Salgo, I wish you very success, this an area where clearly a lot more work needs to be done, though not one where I have any expertise. My opinion: the "anyone can edit" model is profoundly harmful to Wikidata – we have sockpuppets of blocked LTA accounts constantly inserting false or biased data there with impunity. For as long as we go on allowing anyone to insert any data they want, we will be unable to rely in any way on the output. Regards, Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 11:31, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

@Justlettersandnumbers: Interesting keynote this week see tweet Europeana will speak about ""Europeana as a Linked Data (Quality) case" will they speak about "not good enough for en:Wikipedia" ;-) - Salgo60 (talk) 08:31, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

Links of question

The many "skbl" links you've been adding to the articles on royal women go to texts where there are quite a few problems with the English language. You might want to be aware of that. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 19:59, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

@SergeWoodzing: thanks you are telling me they are not good enough? Best would be if we could get the names of the articles and can give feedback to the SKBL people - Salgo60 (talk) 20:02, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

A form for feedback to SKBL - Salgo60 (talk) 20:04, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

I've been putting a reply together to the question you asked. I would say that they are understandable, but would love to see more careful English. There is no such possessive as " Magnus' ", for example, and "She is sometimes" is a very common variety of Swenglish where "Sometimes she is..." would be normal, smooth English. The term "morning gift" is also a Swenglishism (two-word dictionary translation) for Dower. And so on. I don't know if it's fair to complain also about too many personal opinions, unsubstantiated by independent sources, such as the old-fashioned claim that "there is no proof that this is an actual depiction of the queen", which runs contrary to the research of such experts as Professor Svanberg, and just as well could read "there is no proof that this is not an actual depiction of the queen". --SergeWoodzing (talk) 20:17, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

@SergeWoodzing: thanks my understanding is that this is a work of the University of Gothenburg and the ambition is high. We have another Swedish project from the National Archive called SBL they started in 1918 and are slowly delivering new articles Dictionary of Swedish National Biography ID (P3217) but just about 6% of the delivered articles are about women so I guess this project is a "reaction". I will also try to give them some feedback it looks like the translator is lingualexy. I feel the intention with the project is excellent and important but I would like to see better use of sources and also Linked data so we easier could check Wikidata and SKBL see my try using Jupyter Notebook getting Wikidata and SKBL in synch (in Swedish) - Salgo60 (talk) 20:33, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

With your excellent & constructive attitude I'm sure your input there will be of value. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 20:37, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

We will see ;-) my thought is how complex will the new project Abstract Wikipedia be create a language-independent version of Wikipedia ... - Salgo60 (talk) 20:45, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Wikipedia:Vada/Run

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Speedy deletion nomination of Svenskt kvinnobiografiskt lexikon

Hello Salgo60,

I wanted to let you know that I just tagged Svenskt kvinnobiografiskt lexikon for deletion, because it seems to be copied from another source, probably infringing copyright.

If you feel that the article shouldn't be deleted and want more time to rewrite it in your own words, you can contest this deletion, but don't remove the speedy deletion tag from the top.

You can leave a note on my talk page if you have questions. Thanks!

Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.

Bensci54 (talk) 16:58, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks Bensci54 other people are helping me with that so its on the way... - Salgo60 (talk) 17:01, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Bensci54, the lexicon seems to be licensed with a CC BY 4.0 license. At least, that's what it says on https://skbl.se/en/about-skbl That may apply to the copied text,but I don't see anything apart from the link, explicitly saying so. It's perhaps best to rewrite the paragraph. Vexations (talk) 21:40, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Yes thanks we are moving in that direction some more native english speaking people will help me - Salgo60 (talk) 03:52, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

Nobel Prize website

I notice you are making changes to many websites of Nobel laureates. The changes you made to Frank Wilczek redirect several different citations to a single non-existent page at the Nobel Prize website. Perhaps you intended to link to basic facts about Wilczek, which are at https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/physics/2004/wilczek/facts/ That page then links to multiple other sources of information about Wilczek e.g. the autobiography. I suggest you review your changes to other articles, in case you have created similar problems elsewhere. HouseOfChange (talk) 01:27, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

@HouseOfChange: Thanks its a bug at the Nobelprize website I will error reports it to them its 6:00 am in Sweden so I assume they will fix it in the next hours. See

• Status error T252093
• What we have done and why T248939 / T251055

Its a new concept they implemented to get rid of a lot of link rot they have created over the years if they cant fix it then yes we need to revert the changes or if we see this approach is unstable, Feels not rocket science to have an redirect.. and at least you dont need to be a Nobel prize winner to do it ;-)

Thanks for reporting it I am waiting for the feedback from the Nobelprize people - Salgo60 (talk) 04:28, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

@HouseOfChange: now it works T252093 let me know if you see more problems - Salgo60 (talk) 13:25, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

I tried once again the link you used in Frank Wilczek. I got a different error message: "This site can’t provide a secure connection www.nobelprize.org sent an invalid response." Trying again, that link redirected to the URL https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/physics/2004/wilczek/facts/ That page unfortunately it does NOT contain most of the information you cited to your URL. Specifically, a reader needs to find the Nobel autobiography to find support for Wilczek's ethnicity, religious beliefs, names of children, etc. A laureate's biographical page is linked from the "facts" page but in a very obscure way, from a dropdown menu of the word "More." So if you want to use the new Nobel website method to link to the "Facts" page for each laureate, that is fine. But you should not replace working links to biographical material with links to page that does not include that biographical information, IMO. Most articles of Nobel laureates draw heavily from their Nobel autobiographies. HouseOfChange (talk) 15:14, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

@HouseOfChange: Try tro scroll down www.nobelprize.org/laureate/778 see video. I have mentioned to the Nobelprize web developers that people dont find those parts easy. As a "workaround" I mention the Nobel lecture is included....- 15:25, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

Good grief, you are right -- there is a lot more if you keep scrolling and scrolling and scrolling down the page. And the URL changes as you go. What a monster of poor usability practice. I still think our readers are better served by a separate link to the biography URL for biographical information. It seems premature to apply a template across many different pages to this novel effort, hopefully still in progress, at NobelPrize.org. HouseOfChange (talk) 15:35, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

@HouseOfChange: The problem is that Nobelprize web has a history of changing URLs and most places I have changed was because link rot (guess > 70%)....

• can we change the template to add something like (scroll down)
• I will feedback Nobelpeople once more that the design could be improved.
  • I feel they have more sections and after every section there is a "footer Learn more" that maybe just add confusion
  • my feeling is that they have some more or less standard sections Facts, Biographical section, Nobel Lecture maybe we could get direct links to them like https://www.nobelprize.org/laureate/778#NobelLecture
• One odd thing I have found is thet we have much more link rot in en:Wikipedia than in sv:WIkipedia maybe we Swedish people are more concerned about a Swedish institution like Nobelprize or that the Swedish articles are shorter and its easier to control

- Salgo60 (talk) 16:12, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

- I like your idea of direct links to sections of that page, if you think that "778" thing will be stable. HouseOfChange (talk) 16:21, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

yes the 778 is stable protected with dynamite ;-) its in the API. If the linking is stable we will see my understanding it was some config file that was wrong deployed that created this mornings problems that should now be stable - Salgo60 (talk) 03:01, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

Please obtain consensus according to WP:BRD before making further edits to Nobel Prize winner pages and revert your previous edits. If you cannot edit according to Wikipedia conventions you could have your editing access restricted. Xxanthippe (talk) 23:52, 11 October 2020 (UTC).

There is more of this nature at Talk:Lars Onsager. Xxanthippe (talk) 01:17, 12 October 2020 (UTC).

@Xxanthippe: Concensus about what? If you read this discussion you understand we have a concensus that this is a way of avoiding the link rot problem, you also have people agree on Talk Property talk:P8024 please define what you feel is the problem then I will answer your questions you have as I have said earlier....

• the Template:Nobelprize was created 06:10, 25 April 2020
• its available on more than 900 pages
• your suggestion linking a pdf is not stable see this change

a template is implemented supporting this on the following Wikipedias by other Wikipedians who support this concept...

• ar:Wikipedia
• ca:Wikipedia
• en:Wikipedia
• ka:Wikipedia
• nn:Wikipedia
• pt:Wikipedia
• sv:Wikipedia

- Salgo60 (talk) 01:37, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

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