Rift

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PROD

Hi, please see WP:PROD a prod cannot be replaced once it has been removed for any or no reason, thanks Atlantic306 (talk) 11:15, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

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Jimmy Dean and Jim Henson

Not sure how and if it should fit in the Jimmy Dean article, but Jim Henson's first national television appearance was indeed on the Jimmy dean show. Here's a source [1], and here are some WP:PRIMARY sources as well [2],[3]. Jacona (talk) 18:41, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

Feel free to add if cited reliably per WP:RS and WP:CITE. Rift (talk) 19:16, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

Jess Margera page

Hello, there. Would appreciate if you could suspend editing or reverting the Jess Margera page briefly until I complete editing the entire page, including assessing the references. Keystone18 (talk) 00:06, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

Twitter cite on Howie Rose's birthday

Hi Rift — it doesn't matter since another article also provides his birthday, but this is not a WP:ABOUTSELF source relating to a third party, since it was published on the official Twitter of the New York Mets (and so should be considered authoritative as MLB team publications are considered authoritative about the players and personnel of the team). D. Benjamin Miller (talk) 16:45, 12 November 2022 (UTC)

downey half-brother/uncle whatever

I know that fact can be sourced, but I took it out because it's not true. From James Buchanan Downey's obituary: "He was predeceased by his brother, renowned film-maker and director, Robert Downey, Sr."

So it can't be SNL Downey, the one the article is about. It has likely been misattributed to him over the years by lazy sources, but unless SNL Downey is the one who just died (not possible), we should probably take it out. Nohomersryan (talk) 19:17, 17 November 2022 (UTC)

Appreciate your view, but we have two reliable sources to source this claim, including a quote from James Downey himself, directly identified in the article as the SNL writer, who directly speaks about his nephew. The obituary (which is not a reliable secondary source) is probably mistaken, and is a good example of why we do not use primary sources. Let's leave it as is unless we get a reliable source to counter the claim. Rift (talk) 19:25, 17 November 2022 (UTC)

Lol I'll agree to disagree on the obituary being "probably mistaken". Thanks for the level-headed reply anyway. I don't think it's true, but it's pretty minor compared to him being wrongly reported dead so I'll live. Nohomersryan (talk) 19:42, 17 November 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for the thanks. The obituary has none of the reliably-sourced details about SNL Downey correct: Downey is from Illinois, not New York; he graduated from a Catholic high school in Joliet, not the High School of Music and Art in New York; his middle name is Woodward, not Buchanan; and was born 1952-1953 according to the NYT, not 1949. Says nothing about being a Harvard graduate and absolutely zero about SNL, especially the fact that he's the longest tenured writer in its history. Primary sources must be used with extreme care, if at all (WP:BLPPRIMARY), and the obituary doesn't line up. Rift (talk) 19:50, 17 November 2022 (UTC)

See, I'm sure the obituary is telling the truth, but it's just about a different guy. The book it credits him with writing, Is Martha Stuart Living?, got him a New York Times profile which mentions his appearances on Kate & Allie and that he is the uncle of Robert Downey Jr. The obit also says he has a sister, Nancy Connor, a fact which also appeared in the NYT's obituary for Robert Downey Sr. Obviously I'm just filling up your talk page with spitballing now (sorry), but I feel like there's got to be something out there noting the confusion. Nohomersryan (talk) 20:04, 17 November 2022 (UTC)

Okay, now we're getting somewhere with reliable sources. As I said above: "Let's leave it as is unless we get a reliable source to counter the claim." NYT article (which trumps the other two sources) is clearly talking about a different guy. I recommend making the change and doing a writeup on the talk page explaining it's probably not the same guy so it's not re-added. Good work. Rift (talk) 20:13, 17 November 2022 (UTC)

Glad to hear it. Thanks for your input! Nohomersryan (talk) 20:21, 17 November 2022 (UTC)

You might be interested, so just for the record: James Woodward Downey, the SNL writer, is really the son of John Edward Downey and Mary Madelaine Downey, so he has no relation to Downey Sr. Here is his mom's obituary from 2010. Clearly not usable as RS, but better than nothing. Nohomersryan (talk) 19:50, 17 November 2022 (UTC)

Nothing in this obituary contains proof these are Downey's relatives. "James M." (wrong middle initial) of New Canaan, Connecticut could easily be this reporter for the New Canaan Advertiser. Good example of why we use reliable secondary sources and do not interpret primary ones. Rift (talk) 20:03, 17 November 2022 (UTC)

Yeah,obviously you can make inferences (SNL Downey lived in New Canaan and obviously has Joliet ties), but nothing that cuts it as RS. Anyway I'll let you know if I find anything, hope you weren't bothered by my walls of text. Nohomersryan (talk) 20:11, 17 November 2022 (UTC)

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John Sterling

Did you read the Mushnick article? It makes it clear that the self-promotion is at the root of many inaccurate calls. Rory1262 (talk) 03:40, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

"a man who has always cherished the sound of his own voice while placing strained self-promotion over good-faith play-by-play" Rory1262 (talk) 17:23, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

Patrick Fabian

You'd better review MOS:REFPUNCT again – be sure to read all the way to the end. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 16:50, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

Thanks; I hate it. Rift (talk) 01:09, 27 January 2023 (UTC)

Please explain how the edit is unsourced

Hey, I saw your reverts at Michael Madsen including [4]. As the other person is claiming that the source backs it up you should tell them why the source doesn’t verify the claim. Aaron Liu (talk) 00:57, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

Before that user's edit, the birth date on Michael Madsen was listed as September 25, 1958, per the reliable Associated Press citation given (here). The user then deleted that source, adding one (here) that simply stated Madsen's age—no day, month or year of birth given. As this failed verification per WP:VERIFY, I reverted the edit with a clear citation of Wikipedia policy. Rift (talk) 01:06, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

According to the quote, the older one also only stated the age. Aaron Liu (talk) 01:11, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

The source stated Madsen's age (64) in the "[Today's] Birthdays" column on the date of publication, September 25, 2022. No additional citation needed for basic arithmetic per WP:CALC. Rift (talk) 01:16, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

I can’t access that, but thanks for pointing out the web link on the other talk page Aaron Liu (talk) 01:20, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

Norm Abram DoB

I saw that you had removed the DoB listed for Norm Abram as there was no source listed. I have found an applicable source (the production institution of his TV shows) that lists his age and month/day of birth (here). However, I am on the fence for re-adding it as your link to the manual states DoB is considered personal information of a living person susceptible to misuse/identity theft and I get the feeling Norm Abram values his privacy. WKatastrof (talk) 06:07, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

Yes, I found that page as well. However, the article is undated, and making calculations from an undated article constitutes WP:OR. Rift (talk) 20:48, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification and reference. WKatastrof (talk) 01:25, 29 June 2023 (UTC)

Vandal

Explain why you took down a notable link from the BOSTON herald newspaper? Thid will be going to legal. Keep in mind your IP is recorded. {{subst:AN-notice}} ~~~~ Martytanaki (talk) 09:03, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

You are banned from editing that page due to repeated disruptive edits. You used a sockpuppet account to edit the page in violation of this ban, resulting in edits which were reverted (WP:SOCK). Here's the ongoing sockpuppet investigation regarding your behavior. Hope this helps. Rift (talk) 09:09, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

Thank you

Thanks for that last revert, now I can leave in peace. Sometimes an IP user can become relentless, if you know what I mean, so I wanted to check it out.

Regards, Bringingthewood (talk) 21:43, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

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your revert

https://en.wiki.x.io/w/index.php?title=Devil_Dog&diff=1182001071&oldid=1181980920 Well, what can I say, you are right: the hilarious grammar is not mentioned in the reference. But that was not what I tried to indicate here. Vielleicht kannst Du ja so gut Deutsch, dass Du verstehst, wie albern die pseudo-deutsche Grammatik klingt und wie extrem falsch der Ausdruck für Deutsche klingt. Zu vergleichen z.B. mit "Donnerblitzen" oder "Blinkenlights". All of which goes to show that "Teufel Hunden" was most likely not invented by native German speakers. Maybe you can find a way of resurrecting my remarks in the article so that no-one will be upset by the non-relationship with the given reference. Kind regards from a real German. -- Kku (talk) 20:08, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

"Native"

Here's my question: why do you think "Cleveland native" doesn't mean a person born in Cleveland? That is the usual meaning of the word (born in a place) — obviously it's not about belonging to an indigenous group here. Is it possible that this reporting is inaccurate? Sure, in the way any biographical detail might be inaccurate, but it is no reason to discount the statement. D. Benjamin Miller (talk) 16:48, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

It's been my experience as a birthplace maven on Wikipedia that sources (and common parlance) using "native" use it to indicate where a person is from or grew up (which often overlaps birthplace). For example, Bruce Willis is frequently described as a "New Jersey native" even though he was born in West Germany. Is Willis a native of West Germany? Perhaps by the literal dictionary definition, but almost nobody would actually assert that. Chris Rock is a native New Yorker even though he was born in South Carolina and moved to the city shortly after his birth, et cetera.

So I've seen enough low quality sources introducing discrepancies between "native of" and "born in" to be wary. That said, I can respect your view and won't take any offense if you choose to re-add it. Rift (talk) 20:44, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

I certainly wouldn't understand Willis to be a native New Jerseyan or Rock to be a native New Yorker (even though I would say that Willis is a New Jerseyan and Rock a New Yorker — just not native). Now, shaky use in some cases aside, I'd basically call these inconsistencies or ambiguities in reporting (which often crop up in various contexts). To be fair, many news stories will not actually necessarily focus on the fact of a person's birthplace — subjects are not usually asked to produce birth certificates — but I think that we should generally take the reported birthplace (as mentioned by a "native" line in a normally reliable source) to be accurate until and unless some other reporting comes out to indicate another birthplace. D. Benjamin Miller (talk) 22:18, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. I'll continue to cite birthplaces only when explicitly stated as "born in," since I've seen too many discrepancies between "native" and where the person's actual birthplace ends up being, but I'm fine yielding in cases such as this. Rift (talk) 22:23, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

Rotten Tomatoes

Please see Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 411#RFC: Use of Rotten Tomatoes for biographical information. Rotten Tomatoes is a review aggregator. It's useful for determining the consensus of film reviews. However, it is not reliable for biographical information. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 02:47, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Considering this is a relatively new RFC and there was no consensus the last time I checked some months ago, I don't feel too embarrassed. Rift (talk) 05:17, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

@Rift:

I'd also like to point out that Allmovie is not a trustworthy source for biographical details as well. Which is why I'm reverting the articles you used it as a source for someone's DOB. It has the incorrect ones listed for some celebs. The biggest red flag regarding Allmovie is that it has Laverne Cox's birth year listed as 1984 and her true birth year(1972) was revealed years ago.[5] You also can't just use whatever websites you find online that show a DOB without considering whether or not it's a reliable source. Many of them don't indicate where they got that info from and like Allmovie many of them have the incorrect DOB listed for other actors. For all we know they could be web scraping. That's why the recent consensus for Rotten Tomatoes was made.

When it comes to WP:BLP the number of reliable sources is quite slim and there are only very few acceptable options. A truly reliable Secondary source(IE a magazine such as Entertainment Weekly, Los Angeles Times or New York Times. And preferably multiple of these) reporting their exact DOB. Or a social media post from the subject themselves where he or she confirms his or her birthday and preferably either his or her age or YOB in the same post as well. Failing either any of these, that info should kept out of articles for the time being.Kcj5062 (talk) 10:04, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

Can you point me to the RFC/RS noticeboard discussion stating Allmovie is not reliable for birthdates? WP:RSP for RhythmOne shows no consensus and has not been deprecated. Rift (talk) 16:43, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

Well there hasn't officially been any consensus for it, however I once asked an admin about this and they've stated that Wikipedia only includes info in BLP that are supported by reliable sources that have a reputation for thorough fact checking and accuracy and that Allmovie doesn't fit that criteria. And a site doesn't necessarily need a consensus here in order to tell if it's unreliable. Especially if they have info that's been proven to be incorrect. Here's some sites I've seen people try to use as refs that are not on the noticeboard, but have been reverted by admins as they're considered unreliable for WP:BLP.

Celebhealth[6] Celebmagazine[7] Thefamouspeople[8] The numbers.com[9] Biography.com [10].

And another thing Allmovie has going against it is if you go to the bottom of the actor bios, you'll see a fact sheet. It's the exact same as their bios at TVguide. The link for Laverene Cox's Allmovie is above. Now here's her TVguide bio.[11]. Not a good sign as it looks like they just copy/pasted that. I'll ping :@NinjaRobotPirate: and see what he has to say about this. Maybe we can reach a consensus here. But considering the evidence against Allmovie, it looks like it should be treated the same way Rotten Tomatoes is.Kcj5062 (talk) 20:41, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

It's certainly possible that Allmovie licenses its content to TV Guide, much the way that Allmusic licenses its biographies to iTunes, Tidal, and Amazon, so it's not necessarily an indictment of reliability that they have the same information.

Looking forward to other opinions on this. Rift (talk) 20:52, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

Possibly. I'm just trying to be cautious when it comes adding DOBs. Because in the early life section of some celeb bios on Wikipedia, there's information such as what year they graduated high school or college and they don't match up to the birth year that many sites have listed. And some of the sources that are used come right from those school's webpages. Which are probably pretty reliable(if not the most reliable) sources when it comes to their education. Some celebs have never actually publicly disclosed their age or DOB and because many web sites web scrape without any regard to the reliability or the accuracy of the content, they end up having falsified DOBs online. This seems to be pretty common for voice actors in particular as well as models/actresses as they prefer to keep that sort of info private since ageism still exists in Hollywood. The Google knowledge panel web scrapes which is why it's considered unreliable. Kcj5062 (talk) 21:24, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

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User warnings

Hi, Regarding your user warnings here, you gave them 6 warnings. Usually, you should give out 4, then report to AIV and/or ANI if the behavior continues. 𝑭𝒊𝒍𝒎𝒔𝒔𝒔𝒔𝒔𝒔𝒔𝒔𝒔𝒔𝒔𝒔 (talk) 22:00, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know. Already opened noticeboard case here. Rift (talk) 22:01, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:American blues pianist Pinetop Smith.png

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Michael Madsen

Why did you remove my additions that sources differ about his year of birth? I added two sources that supported 1957 as the year of birth and many arrticles, including LA times gives his age as being born in 1957. DrKilleMoff (talk) 20:06, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

Replaceable non-free use File:Anthony Chebatoris mugshot, 1928.png

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Remove more unsourced information for actors

As you know, I just removed the unsourced info for Craig Olejnik and Victor Webster. Now, I will request you to find other famous actors and check if either their full name, date of birth and/or place of birth is unsourced by reading all citations. 73.116.124.181 (talk) 00:27, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of File:American drummer Uriel Jones.png

A tag has been placed on File:American drummer Uriel Jones.png requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section F9 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a copyright violation of Associated :Press photo and has no credible claim of fair use or permission. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images taken from other web sites or printed material, and as a consequence, your addition will most likely be deleted. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously and persistent violators will be blocked from editing.

If the image belongs to you, and you want to allow Wikipedia to use it — which means allowing other people to use it for any reason — then you must verify that externally by one of the processes explained at Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials. The same holds if you are not the owner but have their permission. If you are not the owner and do not have permission, see Wikipedia:Requesting copyright permission for how you may obtain it. You might want to look at Wikipedia's copyright policy for more details, or ask a question here.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Whpq (talk) 12:53, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

I contested the deletion at File talk:American drummer Uriel Jones.png since I uploaded a new revision today to remove the border at the bottom. The fair use rationale in place at the time looked reasonable to me. Beagall (talk) 13:53, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

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