Greensodagal

User talk:GreensodagalGreensodagal (talk) 21:01, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

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March 2014

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April 2014

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• 25 March 2014}}</ref> Chrome also won the 2014 [[California Cup Derby]] by 5 1/2&nbsp;lengths).<ref name="Daily Racing Form">{{cite web|last=Jay Privman|title=Sant Anita: California Chrome
• by [[Per Antonsen]] and trained in southern California by [[Art Sherman]]<ref> name="Harris Farms">{{cite web|last=Staff|title=team-members|url=http://www.harrisfarms.com/index.php/team-members|

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Updating article

Hi Greensodagal. I wanted to give you a heads up that myself and some of the other people from WP:Horse racing are going to expand and improve California Chrome. My hope is that, if we all work together, it can be of Good article quality by the Kentucky Derby - will be a push to get it that good that quick, but I'm optimistic. Feel free to ask us any questions about what we are doing and help as you can. By the way, if you can find us a source for the claim that CC would be the first California-bred to win the Derby since 1962, put the URL on the talk page or in the article. Montanabw^(talk) 23:23, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

FYI

Just dropping you a quick note that I did quite a bit of work on California Chrome. If you want to drop me a message at the article's talk page or to me directly at User talk:Montanabw and let me know if there are further improvements I can make to the article, I'd appreciate it. Thanks! Montanabw^(talk) 23:19, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

DYK for California Chrome

The DYK project (nominate) 02:20, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

Article improvement discussion?

Hi, saw your critique of California Chrome with your edit comments here. Given that this article is apt to be fairly high-profile soon, I'd like to be sure that any inaccuracies are addressed, so if you'd like to comment about problems with the article here, I'll watch this page and try to get back to you as soon as I can. (Or you can post at Talk:California Chrome and more people may see your comments there).

Be aware though, that wikipedia has its own rules and the big one is that everything an article contains needs to be sourced to outside, reliable, third-party sources—Wikipedia has a policy on "original research" and firsthand knowledge that often is very frustrating to people who have personal knowledge of a situation. (See also WP:RS and WP:V) In this case, it means wikipedia sources will mostly be newspaper articles and the like. If sources are "questionable"; please clarify, as they include the Blood-Horse, Daily Racing Form and the Los Angeles Times, among others. If the press gets it wrong (and we all know this happens at times) all we can do is try to find a better source. Montanabw^(talk) 05:17, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

By the way, I'd be glad to help do up an article on Lucky Pulpit - though it might not be right away - if I can figure out how he meets wikipedia's WP:NOTABILITY standard. The Harris farms web site does provide some useful data to start from, but the problem is that WikiProject Horse racing has a standard that we like to see Grade I wins - or a horse siring multiple grade I winners - to deem the animal notable enough to create an article. It looks like his other major winner so far besides California Chrome is Rousing Sermon? Montanabw^(talk) 05:17, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

Please work together on this

Hi - I am noticing your changes. Please work with me on this - we need reliable sources for these changes so they can be verified by other people. Some of the material is a style issue -- this is an encyclopedia, not a public relations blurb and we have to use neutral language and a certain (often rather dull) writing style. Montanabw^(talk) 05:56, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

Note that I used this Sacramento Bee article for a lot of the background info; if it is inaccurate, say so... http://www.sacbee.com/2014/04/04/6297239/local-horse-california-chrome.html Montanabw^(talk) 06:00, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

I am comparing your changes [1] to the article and will try to help you incorporate them back in where possible. But be aware that we can't keep in anything that's not verifiable by an outside source... such as the graphic designer of the logo, the epiglottal problem with Love the Chase, or the details of the Coburns' employment. This is actually due to wikipedia's policy on biographies of living persons (and horses!) Montanabw^(talk) 06:07, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

To help you out: We can insert hidden text into wikipedia articles, I did so in several spots to "park" your information until it can be sourced from third party sources. Just open the edit window and look for anything that looks like this: <!--hidden text here--> it's a good way to point out minor errors or to highlight a small-scale change. Montanabw^(talk) 06:34, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

All for now

I'm calling it a night. I will make my best effort to continue to incorporate the things you are trying to add, and I will look for more sources (I have about 10 "parked" at Talk:California Chrome that I haven't used yet) but the #1 problem will be sourcing the ownership percentages - So far I've looked at the Jockey Club site, Equibase, reviewed the news articles in the footnotes, and nowhere have I found a third party source that says that the Martins have a majority interest and the Coburns have a minority interest. I trust that you know this to be true, and I'd love to keep that detail in, as it is relevant, but without a source to footnote, we can't "prove" it to an outside reader and WP:BLP says we probably need to do so ... if you know of a news article that mentions it, or a web site or ANYTHING, please note it here or into the article. Thanks! Montanabw^(talk) 07:50, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

Response

I was at the news conference after the Santa Anita Derby. Alan Sherman and Victor Espinoza were focused on California Chrome. Many of the people in the press area were not actually press. They were individuals pushing their names and emails on to these owners just sell them photos, trinkets and to get permission to write books. The lack of security is alarming. The press wanted an everyman story when in fact a horse like this is never really a fluke but the result of someone's careful planning and hard work. Steven Coburn was very excited and did not allow Mr. Martin to speak. Coburn was wrapped up in being the center of attention and was manipulated into selling Lucky Pulpit/Harris farms stud slots rather than protecting California Chrome, the mare and the full siblings. As questions arose regarding management or money Mr. Coburn could not answer and looked to Mr. Martin for responses. Mrs. Coburn revealed their ownership share is 30%. Not a small percentage but Mr. Coburn is obviously not a controlling partner and not in a position to sell more than his 30%. I hope he appreciates Mr. Martin's generosity and the freedom to have some fun.

I suspect a lot of the drama will be corrected in the coming weeks and months as Mr. Martin is given the space to tell his story. Those third party cites will come along. Media information is often incorrect and copied from pub to pub. For example, Love the Chase had only two trainers. Mr. Gilchrist and Monty Meier. Mr. Martin disengaged himself from Mr. Meier for lack of competence. He regrets not having done so sooner but waited for some improvement out of respect for his friendship with Mr. Coburn. I've seen six or seven corrections regarding California Chrome in the span of this week alone. Did you know that Perry Martin wrote the Failure Analysis Handbook some years ago? He is focused on the horse's story rather than his.

I am looking forward to the next press meeting as this story unfolds.

Good luck with the article.

Nothing like being misunderstood by the press! Thanks for the clarification and please continue to keep an eye on things. Also, as the story unfolds, DO post the URL links to any articles that will help! I recently found an audio interview with Alan Sherman (here) that I haven't yet listened to, but that will probably be my next source to review. I will see if I can find a link to video of the full SA Derby press conference, as that would be a reliable source we can use! I noted that even NBC Sports broadcasters commented on the mob scene in the winners' circle—I have empathy for everyone directly involved, it's going to be an absolute zoo for the next two months. Montanabw^(talk) 18:23, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

As for the trainers for Love the Chase, I got that list of five people off of the Equibase charts, which had different names on almost every race she ran, but no problem just chopping that bit, as it's not terribly relevant to California Chrome anyway, other than to help people understand why a good mare only won one race. Montanabw^(talk) 18:23, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

As for Mr. Martin, Sherman, and others, I would also be interested in knowing about online links to older news articles about any of the people involved. I have been working on the wikipedia biographies of people involved with horses, the things they do besides their "horse life" is usually very interesting; I have previously worked on articles such as Sheila Varian and William Robinson Brown. One of my other projects right now is Bazy Tankersley. I also recently did quite a bit of work to improve the article on Rosie Napravnik; looks like Espinoza's article is in pretty poor shape, (awful shape, really) I may try to add that one to my to do list. Thanks again for the information and I appreciate your help! Montanabw^(talk) 18:23, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

Verify?

Is it correct that there are TWO fillies who are full sisters to California Chrome? [htdesigned //www.harrisfarms.com/index.php/10-foals/98-lucky-pulpit-out-of-love-the-chase-chestnut-filly-foaled-january-13 2013] and 2014 - except that the 2014 filly seems to have two different birthdays/. ( see also - Harris farms needs to proofread their web site!) They'd be smart to date by year the individual pages too, the way they did in 2013. (Just saying...) Is is correct that Love the Chase had no foal in 2012? Montanabw^(talk) 02:11, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

There are two fillies. No foal in 2012. LTC was bruised during Chrome's foaling. The first foal is designed by nature to be small to protect the mare, whose uterus is of a specific elasticity. That was not the case with California Chrome. He was a large and active foal. You are correct 2014 foal date Feb 2 not 22. Harris has a lot of people involved each with their own function ie. vet, intern, manager, general manager, administrative. They are a professional operation and sometimes wires get crossed. The issue currently will be the safety of LTC and her offspring and information should be cut back. It would be smart. Sorry had to edit response my android has a mind of its own.

Dang cell phones! LOL! Montanabw^(talk) 01:37, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

Just an FYI that I haven't abandoned the project, just got busy in Real Life (we're all volunteers around here!) I'll ping you here when there is another round of edits completed. I found a site (Horse Racing Nation) that sort of verifies the majority/minority ownership of the horse, which I will add, but we will eventually have to find something better... the gods of wikipedia (said tongue in cheek...) don't like HRN for some reason, probably because it's open source and anyone can add material, so it's not always as reliable as other sites. I wish that either Equibase or the Jockey Club were less hush-hush about ownership stuff; though I suppose given that so many racehorses turn over so fast and some people want to keep their identities quiet, oh I guess it makes sense... Montanabw^(talk) 03:59, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

OK, thoughts?

Saw this headline and went Facepalm (grin). http://msn.foxsports.com/horse-racing/story/california-chrome-has-connections-dreaming-of-kentucky-derby-victory-041614 I'd like to add the bit about how the horse's owners didn't want to run him on turf and that Sherman is good with young horses; that seems pretty accurate. (The hyperbole, well, OK, somebody has to do it, I guess, but Facepalm he's messing with my trifecta odds! LOL!). Montanabw^(talk) 19:25, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

Article says synthetic track. Synthetic is polymer enhanced. Turf is grass. Sounds like a misquote. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.87.119.81 (talk) 22:27, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

Meh, that was my error, I said "turf" when I meant "synthetic." Sheesh. My bad! Golden Gate Fields in SF is closer to horse's owners, though, I think - that's a synthetic surface, isn't it? Was it location they were referring to, maybe? Oh well, will just not add that bit, will add in the stuff about why Sherman was picked. In these days of the PETA kerfuffle, always good to emphasize people who are good to their horses, IMHO. Got so many news articles posted at the talk page that it's getting ridiculous, so many of them just repeat the same material, but often they are about half repeat with 1-2 new tidbits, such a pain to go through. (sigh) Got sidetracked today by creating equine agility. Heh, people running with the ponies! Was a fun diversion. Why I love wikipedia... perfect place for those of us with a truly random access memory! ;-) Montanabw^(talk) 23:43, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

Just sharing

This article rated a "SCOMN" = My invented acronym for: "Snorted coffee out my nose": "Churchill Downs oddsmaker Mike Battaglia told the Courier on Saturday, “I don’t think anybody is really sold on California Chrome.” Maybe Battaglia needs to get out more..." Direct quote. Made me laugh. This article is packed with really fascinating trivia. (note to self: Must. resist. temptation. to.bog. article. down. with. irrelevant. trivia!) I can't seem to get anyone interested in giving me a third party review on the article, but might ping a few people. Always interesting to see how non-horse people view these. Glad to see you are lurking and watching. FYI- remember to log in before you reply, otherwise your IP address shows, which indicates your location.  ;-) Montanabw^(talk) 01:29, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

One more LOL: http://www.oregonlive.com/drinks/2014/04/5_kentucky_derby_horses_reimag.html Montanabw^(talk) 02:13, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

OK, thoughts? Response

Liked the Coomes article. Again not wanting to start on some surface any surface looks like a misquote or mis-speak so his discussion on surfaces is accurate. All you have to do is go to equibase for description of surfaces or you can go to park websites for track surface/maintenance info. All of the Derby contenders have to overcome obstacles. The favorite is sometimes thought of as a jinx. Horse people are very superstitious. The races depend on good health and a clean break. The large 20 horse field where each is bent on winning leads to bumping, jostling, etc. The winning horse needs good post position, good break from the gate, and clear positioning before the first turn.

Most of these articles are opinion interjected with a few facts. Need to take some of these with a grain of salt.

This is interesting. http://www.ironmountaindailynews.com/page/content.detail/id/545433/Kentucky-Derby-bound.html?nav=5006

Have you tried the drinks? LOL.

May have to try those! I'm more a wine person as a rule, but I like the sound of the "California Chrome" (I like citrus- but must confess the Wicked Strong sounds good too -- wish they'd do one up for Vicar's in Trouble... then I'd have my trifecta!) I did learn to make a pretty decent mint julep for a Kentucky Derby party I threw a few years ago - even cooked up my own non-alcoholic version for the tetotallers -- basically sweet lemonade with a bunch of mint leaves in it (seems like I had another ingredient, have to see if I can find the recipe again, I think I wrote it down, I modified some other lemonade drink...)

I like that Iron Mountain article, at last a source on the ownership percentages ;-) (Horse Racing Nation seems to have taken down what they had). What a grand lady, my own mom is 86. Yes, the racing press and everyone else is a little nutso; I notice how much sources contradict each other and how often they are just plain wrong, particularly when the reporters are not horse people. I've seen this in other areas of my life, things I've been at firsthand are often reported in a way very differently from what was actually going on. Frustrating.

Wish I could use Twitter as a source on wikipedia, but I can't - just found California Chrome's twitter feed today - too bad we can't use the photos there, either; hey are deemed copyrighted by their uploaders. I'd about give my eyeteeth for more/better photos for the article, but unless they are a free license (like the photo you uploaded) we can't. I've been searching Flickr for images with a free license, but everything of him there is copyrighted so far. (d'oh!)

In wikipedia land, I am rather chuffed that the Featured article review just passed Mucho Macho Man to FA status today, I've been working on that one since just before the Breeders' Cup, and it was a long slog to get it the gold star. Once I have 'Chrome up to at least good article quality, I'm thinking about going back a bit and fixing up the article on Zenyatta, it's not very good. Oh, did you see this on the Zenyatta web site? OK, enough of my random ramblings, off to other things now... thanks again for the article link! Montanabw^(talk) 05:50, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

Zenyatta is a beautiful girl!

Like I'll be back to the CC article with a serious round of adding more material from the newer news stories as I can; am actually out of town on a horse consulting gig in real life at the moment as opposed to being stuck in the office all day long in my other work. But very much want this article up to snuff and accurate before Derby day, let me know if you see any more particularly good articles that I should look at; I've got about 8 new ones in my pile, many repeat themselves but no two exactly alike... it's not the reading or even the writing, it's the footnoting and markup syntax that slows me down. (phooey) Montanabw^(talk) 19:25, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Let's see how much the press cribs from wikipedia (grin)

Just added this (see stuff highlighted on the right hand column). So far nothing in the mainstream press on the Electronic Failure Analysis handbook, but I found it on Amazon and used some stuff from the cover blurb. Curious how long it will take for Blood-Horse or the AP to pick this up; The Horse cribbed me on Thunder (mascot) during the Super bowl, and someone at Blood-Horse almost copied me verbatim once on a different article ... heh, heh...  ;-) (Sitting back, grabbing popcorn, watching the show...) FYI and FWIW, the article Tigerboy, Froggerlaura, and I (plus a couple other folks) worked on about Oxbow (horse) will be Wikipedia's main page article for Preakness day this year. Montanabw^(talk) 19:46, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the article updates and that great new article, I had to make a few edits to keep stuff somewhat in the neighborhood of the material cited and what the MTL web site says (Can't find anything saying "Avionics" testing in the press or the web site) , ;-) I'm personally learning a lot about how many things the press can get wrong; I used to just think that they misspelled names and were guilty of comma splices, but the hiccups here are unbelievable; so far, according to the press, Coburn's dream was somewhere between 3 days and 3 weeks before the foal was born, the person who said "dumbass" was either a groom or a trainer, Sherman has been training anywhere between 1976 and 1980; ... sheesh, reporters don't fact-check too well, do they? I saw one article where it said Chrome's dam was his grandsire (!), and another saying Coburn owns the company where he works, (found their web site, doesn't look like he does, but if he has a financial interest there, point me to a source if you know of one.) Meh... the nice thing about Wiki is that we can fix our foulups, the Associated Press is forever, even online. Montanabw^(talk) 17:40, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

Coburn originally attributed the dumbass comment to trainer Greg Gilchrist. Denise Martin corrected Coburn that it was the groom who made the comment during the Santa Anita Derby press conference. Coburn promptly added ok someone/whoever. There are many reasons for the ambiguous information. Perhaps these are small issues in the grand scheme of things. greensodagal^(talk) 17:00, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

Pretty much, I think the article currently says "casual observer;" you are right about that. Montanabw^(talk) 04:49, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

Sources

Hi Greensodagal, just a heads up that this article has gotten 75,000 hits since since May 1, 25,000 of which were the day after the Derby. click here We also got a number of vandalism hits (some pretty mean-spirited, others just kids being stupid) So, per the wikipedia policy WP:BLP, we can't put ANYTHING in there that isn't sourced to an outside source. We also had someone erase ALL the info about the owners, and I put it back. So, the background on the owners has to come from citable third-party published sources, otherwise we have to toss it. I know that's got to be frustrating. (Especially because the press is soooooo reliable on this story) I'm sitting on about 20 articles trying to figure out what to insert and what not to. Feel free to post more links to any news stories you think are partcularly good. Getting to this article soon. Montanabw^(talk) 05:58, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

Here are a few others I'm reading now. Comments?

• http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/horse-racing-steve-haskin/archive/2014/05/05/haskin-s-derby-recap-california-dreamin.aspx (Normally, Haskin is pretty good)
• http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/horseracing/2014/05/03/dream-came-true-for-derby-winner-co-owner-coburn/8677541/
• http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/more/news/20140429/california-chrome-derby/
• http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2014/may/02/nevada-man-unlikely-owner-kentucky-derby-favorite/
• http://www.npr.org/2014/05/06/310165872/veteran-horse-trainer-sets-sights-on-triple-crown
• http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2046272-from-dark-horse-to-derby-favorite-the-unlikely-story-of-california-chrome
• http://www.npr.org/2014/05/03/309053055/a-black-sheep-crashes-the-kentucky-derby (Did Perry Martin really say the thing about Bourbon??  ;-) )

Sources Response

Thank you for the information. You do good work.

Thank you. It's fun, I enjoy it. Beats my day job! I want to add that I don't do it alone; there are a lot of people who collaborate on these articles; User:Tigerboy1966 does up all the pedigrees, User:Froggerlaura did the chart template that I've been copying from article to article and both were the watchdogs of the article on Derby Day while I was driving somewhere out on I-90 hoping I'd find a place to stop that had a TV well before post time (luckily, I did!).  ;-) Montanabw^(talk) 04:49, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

Haskins writes a good story quality article.

I personally think Haskin is the best writer at Blood Horse and a very reliable source as a rule. He's also entertaining when he waxes poetic! Did you see this one?. However, that video news show he does with Lenny Schulman is pure comedy, I hope they realize that... It's like The Odd Couple or something!  ;-) Montanabw^(talk) 04:49, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

Just parking more news sources here so they don't clutter up the talk page of the article (you can erase anything you want, by the way, no worries!) Montanabw^(talk) 21:56, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

• http://www.drf.com/news/small-time-breeders-hit-jackpot-california-chrome
• http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/horse-racing-steve-haskin/archive/2014/05/09/chrome-s-journey-on-the-derby-dozen.aspx
• http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/preakness-insider-blog/bal-california-chrome-preakness-stakes-20140512,0,1126190.story (Love this one, compares the horse to Brad Pitt!) Baltimore Sun often runs good horse racing stories.
• http://www.kentucky.com/2014/05/11/3238411/rival-trainers-come-to-chromes.html Good quotes from Dale Romans and others
• http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/california-chrome-checks-pimlicos-stall-40-23686464
• http://www.courier-journal.com/story/sports/horses/triple/derby/2014/05/12/california-chrome-departs-churchill-preakness-stakes/8997765/
• http://www.sacbee.com/2014/05/12/6397501/one-brothers-joy-anothers-regret.html Good story on Delgado bros
• http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/horse-racing/preakness/bs-sp-preakness-five-storylines-20140510,0,5330050.story

Preakness

Added info to article, see if there is anything stated inaccurately. I'm going to ask another user who is a hardcore grammar editing sort to look over the article and fix my mistakes, fear not if things suddenly start being rendered in British English, he's from the UK, but is the best copyeditor on wikipedia! He gave the article on Oxbow a thorough thrashing last year and it came out much the better. Montanabw^(talk) 01:27, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

We had some great copyeditors before the race help improve the article so it was all shiny (pun intended) before the race, then a new idiot went in and randomly deleted half of it, all while we were getting about 35,000 hits at once. I wanted to rip my hair out! But, that's wikipedia, all is well now, and notice the color change in my signature (grin)! I am debating whether to note in the California Chrome article anything about the disappointment with Churchill Downs that Steve Coburn mentioned regarding their horrible attitude toward disability access that they gave to both Martin's aging mother and to Ron Turcotte. Apparently they were likewise unaccommodating to the owner of Smarty Jones years ago, so this isn't their first rodeo. It's a bit outside the scope of the article, so I'm leaning against adding it, but as I am a strong believer in accessible facilities and such, this caught my eye. Thoughts? 50,000 hits on Sunday the 18th. Montanabw^(talk) 18:07, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

View count

Over 200,000 hits since May 1. Just FYI. I'm mostly tracking Blood Horse for my primary source, but also other news outlets. If you see something wrong, say so here or email me directly. I check this page at least once a day for updates, but if you want to alert me faster, go to my talk page, then click "Email this user" - I have my email open while in my office, can usually respond to wikipedia email within an hour during the day and early evening, though not always. I plan to forego any Belmont parties to babysit this article during the race, given that some idiot tried to erase half of it right after the Preakness. (sigh, Wikipedia's greatest strength is also its greatest weakness) Montanabw^(talk) 02:20, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

I agree with you there. It does keep you on your toes.

You will be amused

My newest article: Nasal strip. Surprised there wasn't one already, given human use of the things. Montanabw^(talk) 22:36, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

You will be amused Response

Liked it. There are a couple of good studies out in regards to equine uses.

If they can be found on PubMed or in Google Scholar, feel free to post any links. I was intrigued about their potential uses by humans who snore... ;-) Montanabw^(talk) 17:45, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

The main page appearance for the nasal strips article at "Did you know?" will start June 3 (tomorrow) at 3pm Pacific time, will include a photo of 'Chrome with his. (here's the queue and schedule)  ;-) I've probably got about 20 people I've asked to be on vandal patrol for the CC article this week, I hope the wikipedia administrators will agree to put the article on semi-protection for Belmont day at least. Won't keep people already here from making stupid edits, but will keep the random vandals out.  :-P Also, just so you know, because of WP:COI, it is probably better for you to ask for edits on the Talk:California Chrome page than trying to edit the main article for now. Last thing anyone needs this week is a wikipedia drama-fest over the article.  :-P Montanabw^(talk) 16:55, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

Question

Have a very thorough reviewer looking at the article and rightly commented that the press sources are inconsistent if Lucky Pulpit's stud fee for Love the Chase was $2000 or $2500. Can you clarify which number is correct? Is Debbie Arrington at the Sacramento Bee generally a pretty accurate source? Montanabw^(talk) 21:41, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

Question Response

A significant amount of information through the media is originated from a single source. It should naturally raise a red flag. The stud fees for each of the three babies were negotiated differently. The actual Lucky Pulpit stud fee for California Chrome was $1800.00. It was a discount because the economy had taken a dive in the central valley. Several owners received discounts that year. Third party sources will be difficult to find. The Harris stud fee that was published was $2500.00 until Chrome won the Santa Anita Derby.

Debbie Arrington is considered to be an inside source by many horsemen like John Harris because her boyfriend is a reporter for Bloodhorse. She has exaggerated a few ideas and might be considered a bit of a sensationalist under the right circumstances. Many of her articles are ok but there is always some one thing that is not right. For the most part I would guestimate 80% of what she publishes is accurate and 75% may follow the original context.

Found an article today where Martin discusses missing the Preakness. Sounds as if the reporter stayed on topic. http://www.courier-journal.com/story/money/2014/06/03/california-chrome-co-owner-details-derby-flap/9918657/

Take care.

1greensoda^(talk) 20:20, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. Did ANYONE publish the $1800 stud fee? I saw $1500, $2000, $2500 but never $1800. I guess one has to be glad they spell the horse's name right, with which, as we all know, Churchill Downs had a problem... Lordy! Montanabw^(talk) 16:51, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

350K hits

Statistics for the article: http://stats.grok.se/en/latest90/California_Chrome over 350,000 hits since you started the article, 19K just Friday. Here's hoping all goes well for everyone in the race! Did you know the 2014 Epsom Derby is the same day as the Belmont? Montanabw^(talk) 06:56, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

Next task

Well, sad about the horse not winning, his coat was glowing that almost metallic copper that some chestnuts get - you could see it shine on TV, he looked marvelous before the race and looked pretty cool, considering what a zoo that place must have been. Heard people had to wait for hours after the race to get on trains and subways back to their homes. I still hope to bring the article up to Featured article status, so now some intense copyediting will begin. We'll probably have to chop some material and tighten up the writing quite a bit. Let me know if there are any more good news stories you come across that will help clear up any errors. I want to be sure to "get it right." Montanabw^(talk) 06:20, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

Three comments

• Thanks for the article link. I answered you further at my talk page. (hint: Asimov!) Montanabw^(talk) 22:42, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

• Just so you know my plans, I'm going to incorporate the new news story into the article, do a rigorous copyedit (do you think I need to throw out the bit about the opossum? LOL!) and then put the article itself up for Peer review. Then I'll see if I can get it to featured article status the way I did with a couple others. Could you please be so kind as to check the Pedigree section and make sure I didn't mess up anything there? I had to pull the "way back" bloodlines from allbreedpedigree.com, which I know can be inaccurate at times. Montanabw^(talk) 22:42, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

• On a totally unrelated note, I have informally studied the genetics of "chrome" for some time. Thoroughbreds and Arabians have most of the same genetics when it comes to color. Here is a link to an article that discusses "sabino" and "splash white" if you are interested. I have always maintained that you don't ride the color, but it's still intellectually interesting to figure out what's going on there. I find genetics rather interesting. Montanabw^(talk) 22:42, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

One question

In that Chicago Sun-Times article, the writer stated something oddly: "Denise shadowed a Sacramento horse trainer while she was pregnant," which I presume means something like Job shadowing? Or was this a reference to learning about horse racing by observing people at work - with an eye to ownership? Do you have any idea what the reporter meant? And what did someone being pregnant have to do with anything? (I ask because I RODE when I was pregnant... and trained riding horses until I was about 6 months along, at which point my clients started freaking out... LOL) Montanabw^(talk) 01:46, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

One question Response

The shadowing did indeed refer to a job shadow type of situation. The trainer thought that Denise might like to assist him, as in assistant trainer. Denise had just moved to California from Chicago when her husband Perry took on an engineering position with the Air Force. She pregnant with her first child and most employers do not hire pregnant women. Especially in the field of chemistry. Tagging along with a standardbred trainer was an opportunity to learn professional horse training at the time. Lol. Obstetricians recommend against getting too chummy with horses during pregnancy. greensodagal^(talk) 08:59, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

Hah! I remember asking my OB/GYN about riding while pregnant. Lived in a town with many dedicated downhill skiiers who also risked life and limb for their sport. My M.D. had given up on slowing down us gals, just sighed and said, "babies are well-padded in there, watch your balance." God, the courage we had in our twenties! I've also been working on the Rosie Napravnik article and saw she got hurt Sunday. I remember having that sense of youthful immortality on horses she has, though I've never been on a race horse at the track (rode a few OTTBs retrained as jumpers, though). Have no experience with harness racing, don't live where it is done, seems really interesting though. Had a mare trained for pleasure driving once, very different from racing, of course, but glad I had the chance to learn a few basics.  ;-) Montanabw^(talk) 03:04, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

Sounds like a great experience. You sound very well rounded. Good for you!

little chrome filly

"Well-rounded" is more descriptive of my middle-aged figure these days! Hah!  ;-) Thought you'd be amused that the evening of May 2, a friend of mine had her own little chrome filly, a purebred Arab. (I took the photo) Noting that she's a chestnut out of a bay mare (sire is chestnut), I figured she was another little good luck omen for Chrome! (Not that I really am all that superstitious, but I do note coincidence and synchronicity... ;-) FWIW, I will be taking 'Chrome's article to WP:FA in about a week or so, I'll link to the review page when it occurs, it will be a circus, so grab your popcorn and watch the show. Montanabw^(talk) 02:31, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

Grab popcorn

free popcorn

Hi Greensodagal, FYI, I nominated the 'Chrome article for Featured article candidacy (FAC) today, see: Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/California Chrome/archive1. It can take several weeks to a month to be complete, so grab your popcorn and watch the show. You can see the gauntlet that other articles go through at the first link, or just put the second link on your watchlist and observe the process just for this article. It This is not my first rodeo, so to speak, you may find it interesting to skim the process I went through with the two previous race horse "biographies" I shepherded through FAC: Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Mucho Macho Man/archive1 and Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Oxbow (horse)/archive1 (which was my first solo trip through the FAC gauntlet). It's never a truly solo process and there are 3 or 4 other people who helped on the article who will probably stand with me in support of it. Once it's done, I'll probably nominate it to be the main page "Today's Featured Article" on Kentucky Derby day 2015 or something, like I did with Oxbow this year. Feel free to pop by my talk page or post here if you have any questions or concerns. Was able to pull some screenshot images of the Belmont via a free-license video made by a French Horse TV network. Made several text edits today and updated to the latest stuff that came out on the 10th. Hope I handled the Del Mar thing OK, see the California_Chrome#Fans_and_publicity section. Montanabw^(talk) 02:02, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

Your name in lights??

Reviewers at the FAC for 'Chrome said I had too much on the owners and needed to spin that bit off to cut down the size of the article. After whining about it for a couple weeks, decided they were correct (three or four respected reviewers can't be wrong, but I occasionally might be! LOL!) So DAP Racing went live today. Please take a look and offer suggestions for improvement. Montanabw^(talk) 03:33, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for your kind words at my talk page. I have sympathy for anyone who has to deal with a press onslaught; sometimes a reporter has an agenda and if it doesn't coincide with yours it can be a real challenge to get things straightened out. I've only had reason to be interviewed by a newspaper two or three times in my life but it seemed like every time they got something a little bit wrong. I suppose it's the time pressure they are under. The beauty of wikipedia is that you can just keep going in and fixing your mistakes over and over again, and if you miss some, another person will get to it. (The weakness is if some troll shows up with an agenda, which is wikipedia's most annoying feature). Writing for wikipedia has given me a lot more confidence in my off-wiki writing; I have a couple fun projects I'm working on, and the writing I must do every day in my real-life job (though generally a bit boring) has become a lot tighter and I do it faster. My spouse points out that if one learns nothing else on wikipedia, you learn to tolerate having your work mercilessly critiqued, edited, and rewritten by others. Montanabw^(talk) 06:01, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

As for 'Chrome, I think that if he stays healthy and happy on the track, there will be continuing interest, at least amongst horse aficionados. Now that Mucho Macho Man has retired, people will be looking for a multi-year competitor to follow the way they followed horses like Zenyatta and before her, Cigar, etc... Also, the press likes Art and Alan Sherman, who I think impressed reporters with a calm manner, professionalism, and just the right touch of light humor. The biggest challenge for now I think is to simultaneously prep 'Chrome for the Breeders' Cup (which is enough of a challenge) but also for his connections to have a press strategy planned in advance to put a positive slant to any of a number of scenarios. Very tough for a three year old to win, only nine three year olds have won in what - 30 years they've run the race? It will be very difficult to beat older horses, plus everyone will be hoping for a showdown with Shared Belief and maybe a rematch with Tonalist. Quite rare for a winner of a triple crown race to also win the Classic in the same year... I count four: Unbridled won the Derby and the Classic in 1990, Curlin won the Preakness and the Classic in 2007, A.P. Indy won the Belmont and the Classic in 1992. I think the only horse to win the Derby, the Preakness AND the Classic was Sunday Silence. Alysheba, Drosselmeyer, and Ferdinand won Triple Crown Races at 3 but didn't win the Classic until age 4. (best to double-check my stats, though, I could be wrong) Well, enough musing about trivia. Hope 'Chrome is happy to be back at the track and stays healthy. Montanabw^(talk) 06:01, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

WP newsletter

Brief story on the California Chrome article being promoted to featured article status. For your online scrapbook: https://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2014-08-20/Featured_content Montanabw^(talk) 00:42, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

Ping

Good luck in the Breeders' Cup Classic. I found out that our local simulcast place has wifi, so I can both bet AND update in real time and watch for the article vandals again. The grumpy old men don't like me to ask the bartender to turn on the broadcast with sound, but tough crunchies, I'm going to go there and do it anyway! Tell Chrome to go kick Shared Belief's butt. He's a nice gelding but Hollendorfer needs a humbling. ;-) Montanabw^(talk) 23:32, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

Lol. Do. Good. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.87.130.140 (talk) 00:34, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

For what it's worth

Damn good race; blanket finish, very respectable. Bring him back next year! Santa Anita Handicap. Just my opinion. Montanabw^(talk) 01:47, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

Just saw this article on the horse facilities at JFK. Wow! [2]. Montanabw^(talk) 05:47, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

Cool interface

This is an off-wikipedia site that makes WP articles look very pretty. FYI, click "on" the button that says "live preview" to see what I mean: http://www.wikiwand.com/en/California%20Chrome?fullSearch=true Montanabw^(talk) 20:26, 27 December 2014 (UTC)