Fundamental metric tensor

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Thanks for your contribution

 it is ok but where how I will talk to U????

This is in regards to your citation contributions to the Fareed Zakaria article.

		The Citation Barnstar
		message Payam81 (talk) 17:09, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

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Again, use edit summaries, especially when you're changing numbers in data tables. —Kenyon (t·c) 05:15, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

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British Empire

We've been through this before [1]. Not going to get embroiled into an argument with you, if you can't understand why your edits are utterly inappropriate. The Red Hat of Pat Ferrick ^t 10:32, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Three different editors have now reverted your edits. I hope that tells you something. The Red Hat of Pat Ferrick ^t 00:02, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Hi. Mariya here. Thanks for talking not warring.
One little quote is nice, but I could give you a qoute from a British Prime Minister about how Herr Hitler was a reasonable guy.
Does that make it a fair and balanced opinion?
Did Hitler get freedom for Germany after the unwelcome (to them) impositions of the League of Nations? Was Nazi Germany a "free" country - or was it an "independent" country.
See the difference?
Independence implies that a country is run by people in that country (usually, but not always, from that country).
Freedom implies something different.
Nazi Germany is perhaps the most striking "modern" example of the difference, but it also applies to some of the former Soviet republics - they are independent, but in at least one case there is a lifetime ruler. Not much freedom about that.
I understand your patriotism.
Patriotism is often a good thing in a malleable world
But it is not the stuff of reasoned debate, or consensus.
Editors from another country (I am sure you can guess which) have a lot of patriotism too.
Is Iraq, for example, independent, free, both, or neither? Can a country run by a brutal dictator be independent / have freedom? What about now? - Iraq has a locally elected government, who are technically in charge - so is that independence or freedom? Or neither?

The points you make about post-independance problems seem to be a case of "having your cake and eating it". Politician love such rhetoric - after all, "success has many fathers, but failure is an orphan".
Do you have any good quotes from "heavyweight" sources?
(as the ancient greeks pointed out, democracies tend to elect the popular rather than the able)
Anyway, again thanks for talking, not warring.
Mariya - x -
Mariya Oktyabrskaya 09:42, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Fundamentalwhateveryournameis, have you looked at, say, Encarta or Britannica's articles on the British Empire? The Red Hat of Pat Ferrick ^t 10:33, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Quite a user name, isn't it. Pity I'm not clever enough to know what it means;)

Mariya - x -
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.25.249.0 (talk) 11:49, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Hi, again.
Some economists feel that the end of the British Empire was due to a lack of money, after the crippling cost of WWII. The easy money to be made in India had already been made, and it was no longer worth the while. There are "heavyweight" quotes available to support this, if you are interested.

Another view provided by some revisionist historians is that decolonisation had racial undertones. Had Indians remained as Imperial citizens, they would have had a lot of mobility in the Empire. Their growing wealth meant the likelyhood that more and more would be able to travel, so by ending British Rule, it gave Britain a much greater ability to restrict immigration. Again, a trip to the library will provide some heavyweight sources for this, particularly amongst more modern sources.
My personal POV (and it is just that - my POV) is that like the end of the Roman Empire, there was not one cause, but many (how's that for a "heavyweight" paraphrase of Gibbon - it doesn't get much more "heavyweight" than him!).
Probably best not to go too heavily on particular items - the massacre you refer to is, I assume, already in Wikipedia, because it shows up in a blue link. Is that not enough. Shall I bung in a few sourced references to Nazi collaborators amongst some Indians in favour of Independence? - now they were certainly morally dodgy!

The issue of the Bengal Famine of 1943, would appear, at least superficially, to be somewhat more complex than you suggest. The Wikipedia page makes reference to the primary cause being a cyclone on the 16th October 1942. The same page also suggests that the Indian economist Amartya Sen says that there was no overall shortage of food, but rumours of shortages and the subsequent hoarding behaviour of some caused a very uneven distribution of the food. It is difficult to see how this is the fault of the British. The British seem to have been a little slow in their reaction, but that is hardly causal to the start of the famine.

On the subject of the timing of the speed of British withdrawal, since Gandhi, in 1942, had insisted that Britain withdrew immediately, it is difficult to blame the British for withdrawing too quickly, without giving at least equal blame to Gandhi and his supporters. The problems of partition, and the border ethnic cleansing, were not caused by the British, but by the rival claims of two irreconcilable groups. The Muslims, as former colonial masters themselves, had no intention of being told what to do by the Hindu majority in India, and the partition was an attempt to reduce the inevitable bloodshed. How well it succeeded is a matter of opinion, but it is hard to believe that partition was worse than what would have happened if what is now Pakistan had remained part of a united India. I would remind you that muslims are supposed to respect Jews and Christians (as "People of the Book"), but that did not apply to other faiths. And you've seen how much respect muslims give the Jews! So what do you think would have happened in the Northern provinces of India?

As regards the massacre, it would be appropriate, would it not, to contextualise the event in any entry. Why do YOU think that the British acted as they did? Then we can discuss from there.

So, I am sure you will agree, it is not just a list of some facts that give a balanced view. It is all about context.
Anyway, enough from me. I hope I have given you a little to chew on.
Mariya - x - (logged in to my usual system this time!)
Mariya Oktyabrskaya 19:12, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

History is an overlapping set of narratives with no single, clear objective truth (or if there is one, it is very difficult to fathom in almost all cases). Some authors will disagree with (or not mention) the points I have made. Other authors will agree.
The scientific process is, after all, a competition between competing theories to find the most robust.
One of the most exciting (and annoying) things about history is that while it should be fixed (after all, everything in history has already happened), it isn't. New evidence comes to light. Existing evidence is re-examined and compared. Even social attitudes to past events change the focus on what previuosly happened.
One interpretation of the British Empire is that it was primarily defensive, giving Britain (and her new Protestant religion) protection from the Spanish. Foreign trade allowed both the Dutch and the English the power to resist Catholic domination in the 1600's. Later threats included the French and rivalry with the Dutch. The British were interested in India to prevent the French and or the Dutch from getting it. British involvement in Canada and Australia also prevented or reduced French expansionism. So the British were essentially just protecting themselves, and on the way made a major impact on the lives of millions of others.
Essential the same argument has been made about the Roman Empire (especially before Julius Caeser and the conquest of Gaul), and has also been made (and by some still is being made) about the Islamic expansion from a limited area of the Middle East to major world influence.
However, that is just one set of interpretations, and many would argue with all of them and or some of them.
Others see empires/colonisation as successful conflict resolution, with the ruled/colonised just being lifes losers who are trying to excuse their own defeat, and if they had had the chance would/could have done the same. Nietzsche was stong on this - re "Beyond Good and Evil".
But now we are straying into political philoshophy (which overlaps history to a greater or lesser extent depending on your point of view), and it would only be fair to read other political philosphers too (e.g Plato, Machievelli, Locke, etc.).
I certainly don't know the answers (just repeating other people's opinions), but I hope you enjoy your journey.
Mariya - x -
Mariya Oktyabrskaya 06:26, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Social

So how is life in Texas? Never been there myself. Only really been (apart from day-trips) to Michigan myself.
Good luck with the studies. What are you studying? From your username, it sounds like Mathematics.
Mariya Oktyabrskaya 05:14, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Nationalism

The statement clearly states that it is not a majority view. --Neon white 13:03, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

India isn't singled out. The paragraph mentions, irish nationalism, religious zionism, pakistani nationalism etc. --Neon white 20:47, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

The article refers mainly to the Republic of Ireland rather than the island as a whole, although there does exist irish nationalism in northern island. I don't think the paragraph is unduly weighted towards hindu nationalism, it only briefly mentions the existence of hindutva parties. There's nothing is the text that suggests it is the dominant expression of india. I think that the BJP is unquestionably hindu nationalist. --Neon white 15:36, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Re: Removed citation for holidays on India page

Hi! The result of your edit was this. In the difference between your and the previous version, your edited version contained a lot of rubbish (probably incorporated due to some error). See the Citation number 103, in the "Notes". There was definitely some error. that is why your edit was reverted. You can add the citation. Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 22:52, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

British Empire

Hello FMI. You may remember you posted on my talk page a few months ago on balancing the article on the British Empire. I see from your above discussions that you probably have looked through literature pertaining to some of these issues. I noticed particluarly your earlier discussion with a fellow-editor, User:Mariya Oktyabrskaya on the Jallianwallah Bagh massacre, 1943 Bengal famine, and the British leaving India. On the first and the last issues, I will point you to Hindu-German Conspiracy#Political impact and the Indian National Army#Impact (both of which I wrote mostly, so take this suggestion with caution).

I am not an expert on the Bengal Famine, so I cant help you there, but I believe, based on the references I found while writing the two articles, that the Amritsar massacre happened because the entire Hindu-German Conspiracy (you may know this as Ghadar conspiracy, or Ghadr rebellion) happened, especially becasue it happened through WW I. Incidentally, you will find in Nigell Collet's The Butcher of Amritsar mentions of parts of this conspiracy, notably the Kabul Mission and Provisional Government of India, and it was against the percieved influences of these Mischief Makers that Reginald Dyer spent most of the latter haf of his war. The Rowlatt Commission was established mostly as a consequence of the threat percieved from the Ghadarite and the Berlin committee people in Afghanistan , which the Indian independence movement till recently only referred to as "the sedetious conspiracy" (which again was the Indo-German Conspiracy).

As for why the British left India, you might find Peter Fay's The Forgotten Army... and Lawrence James' Raj:The making and unmaking of British India quite helpful, since both addresses the fact that Quit India was suppressed by using the army, but after the war, the nationalist fury in the forces around the INA trials made repeating such an effort impossible. Ronald Hyam's Britain's Declining Empire: The Road to Decolonisation 1918-1968. Cambridge University Press., ISBN 0521866499. may also put this into context. I wont go into axis collaboration and all that since this has been addressed in the Indian National Army article. I will say however, most historians would agree that the events around the INA and the INA trial and Bombay mutiny had a significant part to play in the British decision to leave India. Your high school NCERT history book wont say these, but I would suggest looking up peer reviewed journals, most notably the Pacific Historical Review and the Journal of Asian Studies.

As for your earlier query to me, in the Hindu-German Conspiracy references section, you will find Percy Sykes' 1921 lecture South Persia and the Great War reprinted in The Geographical Journal that year. Although quite long, you will find there mentions that the British enterprise in Persia was based (if I remember correctly) on deceit and other not very honourable stuff. As for some of the other aspects, I would suggest Verney Lovett's 1921 book on the History of Indian Nationalist movements, which also deals with the not very honorable enterprises and also puts to rest any theories of pollitical progress as goodwill. It was a carrot-and stick policies to stave off unrest and stimulate the moderatists while at the same time suppressing and white-washing the terrorist movement. Incidentally, Lovett sat on the Rowlatt Commission and should be able to disabuse any notion that Rowlatt commission was for any reasons other than addressing the revolutionary problem brought forth by the Ghadar Conspiracy.

Sorry to have gone on rambling, but hope this helps. There are excellent articles in JSTOR.Rueben lys (talk) 21:30, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Hello FMT, yes, you are right, quite a lot of accounts of the Jallianwallah Bagh massacre do suggest that it was an isolated incident by a demented Dyer, but you will find a number of historians including eg Richard Popplewell,(1995, Intelligence and Imperial Defence: British Intelligence and the Defence of the Indian Empire 1904-1924., Routledge, ISBN 071464580X), Lovett (I have mentioned the book above), Hugh Tinker (reference in the Conspiracy article), as well as Sumit Sarkar agreeing that it was part of a larger effort in response to the Indo-German Conspiracy and the revolutionary movement in Punjab and Bengal. The Rowlatt act itself was an extension of the Defence of India act 1915 which also passed in light of the threat from the conspiracy.

In response to the "Granting" of independence, have a look at Ronald Hyam's book I suggested earlier, as well as most books by American historians which deal with the last years of the Raj. You will se quite categorical views that if the INA trials and the mutinies like Bombay mutiny did not happen, the Raj could have gone on for another 15-20 years.

Lastly, I did not mean "Your High school NCERT text book" as Your in particular, I meant NCERT history book in general (if you see what I mean). Hope this helps. Good luck with editing, I am sure we'll meet again.Rueben lys (talk) 13:33, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Star

Hello RJ, I think the reference I had given for Sanskrit etymology of star already states that star derives from Sanskrit although it doesnt mention Sitara explicitly. I am invariant under co-ordinate transformations (talk) 01:07, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Hello FMT. If the sentence had only said it was derived from Sanskrit then I wouldn't have a concern. But I can't be sure that it, historically, was derived from "sitara". That's why I'd like to see a reference for that point. Thank you.—RJH (talk) 17:03, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Re:Constitution of India

Thanks for your comment. I will appreciate if you can contribute anyway. Can you give me a link to the NCERT book? Thanks. Sumanch (talk) 22:47, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Recent Edits

I am going through a brain freez. Can go over the edits and recomend or do any modifications to help me. Thanks.Sumanch (talk) 02:57, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Hi, I went through another round of edits. Edited the structure of the constitution, corrected citations and added a Bibliography. Can you go over it and give me your opinion?

I think Fowler&fowler had good point for including GOI Act 1935. I opened a section for that and it needs expansion. I also opened a section for Judicial Review, it needs expansion too. Let me know what you think.Sumanch (talk) 00:12, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Influence

I agree! Right now this section is just a list. I think it will be a good idea to write a para discussing the influences in general and spliting it into an article of its own. And, thanks for the changes.Sumanch (talk) 04:12, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

List of Indian states by the etymology of their name

In the meaning section, states with Pradesh in their name have been described as Land of. I think Province of will be more suitable because pra . desh means sub . country. I dont think State of is as suitable as Province.

I think List of Indian states by the etymology of their name should be merged with States and territories of India.Sumanch (talk) 19:43, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Re:West India page

I believe it will be good to take the India locator map itself for West India page. Most of Wikipedians(which are non-India or Indian with little geographical KB) do not understand states from their map shapes. Mostly people recognize India map (even non-Indians). For more understanding you may highlight the West Indian states with separate color than rest of India and use it as West India Locator map. But I would vote for this base map only as it is the most used map, has been a FP and widely accepted. Its better to refer to such a thing than a new one for good understanding. gppande «talk» 17:50, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Hi,

You reverted my edit after I added Hindi and Portuguese as official Languages. Well, I think Portuguese is not an official language of Goa anymore. You were right. However, Hindi is a co-official language of Maharashtra, Diu & Daman, and Dadra and Nagar Haveli. I get this information from the link below.

http://www.ocol-clo.gc.ca/newsletter_cyberbulletin/india_inde_e.htm

Hence, I shall add Hindi again but not Portuguese. Gujarat does not have a co-official language though. Gujarati is the only official language of Gujarat. If you think Hindi should not be listed as an official language, we must first make sure it is not. 122.167.32.107 (talk) 10:30, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Re: Second-class citizen

Since you are an Indian and closer to the situation than I am, I will not argue your change to the page. In school, we were usually given India's caste system (lower castes and outcastes in particular) as an example of second class citizenry, so that went into the page. We have had trouble in the past, with different minorities (including teens) insisting that their group was being persecuted, and thus should be included as examples in the article (more often than not, the "problem" was their group was not indulged, or given first priority over others, in a society), or that a given group was not persecuted, despite the facts. In the end, we (Mariskell and I, who co-created the article) decided to stick to historic examples, and the page has luckily stayed pretty calm since them.

The text ran that the caste system has been described as creating second class citizens. This technically is still true (describing something doesn't necessarily make it the way it is described)... but like I said, I will not argue the point, and I will thank you for your input on the matter.

I have read and heard at different times that under British rule, the caste system was either supported, or repressed, by the British government in India. Could you please tell me which is accurate? Did the policy change over time? Thanks. Zephyrad (talk) 04:46, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

North India...

Hey, Congrats... Finally, someone stood up to clean up this page...! I literally died fighting politics... :( Keep up the good work...!Mugunth^{(ping me!!!,contribs)} 06:43, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Map for North India

We created that map from this svg file. Use InkScape to edit it... http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Image:India-locator-map-blank.svg

Mugunth^{(ping me!!!,contribs)} 04:19, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Re: Corruption in India article

The article is still not complete, many more works need to be done in the article. However I don't see anything wrong in the statement "It is prevalent within every section and every level of the society". It's not biased. What our eyes are still able to see is a really bad picture created by the actual situation and supported by the statistical data. The corruption rate is really high in India. And the statement is supported by PUCL which is a reliable source. But I am completely agree that comparison with other countries is very much needed. Not only that, a separate section is needed titled "Efforts for combating corruption" or something like that. The article should be divided in the following sections:

• Causes of corruption
• Overview
  • Corruption in Government agencies
  • Corruption in religious institutions
• Effects of corruption
• Whistleblowers
• Measures for combating corruption
• International comparison.

By this format, the article will be completed IMO. I have not enough time now, I will work on it later after researching some more on the topic. If you have the time, you can go ahead and at least add the contents on combating corruption and international comparison. Just a quick search of the Transparency International website will helpful for the comparison with other countries. At present I am marking the article with {{expand}} tag so that readers can understand that the article is still not complete. Thanks. Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 09:02, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

North India

Please refrain from making disruptive edits to articles, especially as you have done to North India. The article is already rated as B-Class and enjoy consensus from various editors. Kindly engage in civilised discussion on article talk page why you would like to change the article drastically by removing sections which throws light on cultural and socio-economic condition of North Indian states. Sections removed without consensus amounts to vandalism. --Himhifi 10:26, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

User:Himhifi, remember, you were blocked temporarily for not following consensus on this article and for adding vandal warning templates on other users' pages? I'm reverting back to the previous version...Please raise the issue on talk page, and stop adding this vandal warn templates on co-editors talk pages.Mugunth^{(ping me!!!,contribs)} 11:25, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Re:India states template

If you oppose the edit kindly discuss it on Talk:India so that more editors can participate. --KnowledgeHegemonyPart2 11:28, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Credible author

Hello. A credible authors' reference is being "overrided" by edit-warring. I recently tried to add to the telescope article but this editor seems to think that his opinion overrides a VERY credible author in Mr. Richard Powers. I've been blocked before for edit-warring recently, so I don't want this to be another incident on my record.

Anyway, the other editor seemed to have asked his friend-type editors to form a consensus, so I will do the same. The Islamic connection here is, Al-Haytham. He is FUNDAMENTAL to the telescope and the FATHER of optics. By definition, the summary can include him since the radio and electro-magnetic telescopes are derogatory to the average person looking at the article; I wanted to add it to the history section since it looked cleaner. Can you help your fellow InternetHero?? InternetHero (talk) 21:02, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Dalits

Please make whatever modifications you deem neccesary.--Buster7 (talk) 04:14, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

please discuss the issued before making changes thanks. i am only trying to show that indians are united and there never were any so called "aryan invasion" who supposedly gave indians "better" genes. thats just nonsense. anyway have a discussion and we will try to reach a consensus. u can talk about the article in the dalit discussion section. Arjuna316 (talk) 15:03, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Arjuna316, the issue is neither about "the unity of Indians" or the Aryan invasion. First of all, Indian unity is supposed to be based on common political and ideological ideas (belief in democracy, pluralism and minority rights), it is not based on any genetic grounds. The word genes does not appear in the Indian Constitution, and all though you may not see contemporary India in this light, most Indians do (I have references). The "Aryan Invasion" is whole another topic that I do not know much about. But I personally do not believe in it too much, nor do I care even if it did occur. It is hardly relevant to modern India's problems in my opinion. Now, propagating a myth of genetic similarity within Indians is a dangerous idea, which can have serious medical consequences (as my reference points out), so I would request you to refrain from doing so simply to show that "indians are united". I am invariant under co-ordinate transformations (talk) 16:29, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

how is saying that indians are genetically related to one another "dangerous".

i have no idea what are u trying to say?? this is a scientific fact that indians are similar. i have changed the word from same to similar. i explained to you again and again and again that india has minimum genetic input from outside india. this is not to say that indians are not diverse. just that indians are related to one another. i dont know why u would have a problem with that???

also can you please please please move this discussion to the dalits "discussion" talk page. thanks.

Arjuna316 (talk) 18:57, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Hi there!

I like your username and work on Indian states. :)--Thecurran (talk) 04:45, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Kindly discuss before making any edit - Intro Bihar.

Kindly discuss before making any edit - Intro Bihar. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.169.82.181 (talk) 12:09, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

J&K

The protection is unnecessary at this stage. I have copyedited the lead instead to meet the WP:NPOV criteria. =Nichalp «Talk»= 12:49, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Re:

I'll be glad to ;) BlackPearl14^{Pirate Lord-ess of the Caribbean} 02:05, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Reply:

1. Wikipedia talk:Noticeboard for India-related topics is the regional noticeboard. Its a very active noticeboard.
2. I have copyedited the history section as I feel that the notability of the Ahom kingdom was being linked to just a battle with the Mughals. Take a look at it now.
3. Native names are fine on state article names, and so too cities and people. As for regional scripts appearing on articles not in the main topic, I invite you to contribute this post I recently opened: Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style#Excess non Latin script usage.

Regards, =Nichalp «Talk»= 05:37, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Re: Names

Yes I agree. It's a horribly US-sided POV for many geographical entries. You can take this up on the template talk page Template talk:In the news. Let me know if you put it up there, I'll also add my comments. Additionally, you can also post a link on the Indian noticeboard. =Nichalp «Talk»= 06:07, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

2002 gujarat violence

While the IP extrapolated (Nanavati said "the train was set on fire") too much on the findings of this official commission covered in reliable sources, I fail to see your justification of the incident and sources as unreliable. It is not only notable, but extremely relevant.Pectore^talk 05:04, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Proposal

I have following proposals for Northern, Eastern and Central India's map. There are many references which say that Bihar is in eastern India.

File:North-India-locator-1.png Northen India	Eastern India	File:Central-India-locator.png Central India

References-

• Eastern India
• Central India

Manoj nav (talk) 16:32, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Fine. Thank you for the comment. Manoj nav (talk) 17:05, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Can you please participate in this discussion- Talk:North India#Proposal? Your comments will be very helpful indeed. --KnowledgeHegemonyPart2 17:27, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Manoj, Could you please use Inkscape to create SVG maps instead of PNG? Thanks! =Nichalp «Talk»= 14:52, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Indian place article moves

There is a related discussion on your page moves here. AFAIK, it is advisable to move the places "Place_name" to "Place_name,Indian state" format unless there are more than one place with the same name. Places should be stand alone in all general cases. -- Tinu Cherian - 12:11, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

I believe User:Tinucherian meant not advisable... To add my couple of pence worth, even if there are towns with same name, if one of them is very well known while all others are minor, see also, for and other such templates are to be used at beginning of article. For example, Madras means Chennai, Tamilnadu, even though there is a Madras in USA. The US town would then have Madras, state name. VasuVR (talk) 12:57, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

( Ya , I meant Not advisable, stupid typo making laptop :) -- Tinu Cherian - 07:06, 10 October 2008 (UTC) )

Yes, I agree with Tinu. Please restore them to their original forms. Thanks, Kensplanet (talk) 14:49, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

I concur, please restore the original versions. Monumental changes to naming conventions MUST be proposed and discussed first. =Nichalp «Talk»= 15:04, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the understanding buddy, this is how we learn and correct things :) . Do contribute to india related articles. -- Tinu Cherian - 07:06, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Mumbai

WikiProject Mumbai Has been launched. We were wondering if you could be a member of the Wikiproject. If you would like to join this Wikiproject, then you can click this link (http://en.wiki.x.io/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Mumbai/Members&action=edit). Do not forget to Purge the contents of the page after you have added yourself. Thankyou, Kensplanet^Talk_E-mail^{Contributions} 08:37, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

India

The reason I added India is a member of the Commonwealth to the India introduction is because it is placed just after where it mentions India gaining independence so it informs the reader though India gained independence it remained part of the Commonwealth. Usergreatpower (talk) 02:52, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Ski resort in Bolivia

Hi! I think Chacaltaya is still open, but I'll investigate. Scheridon (talk) 00:24, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

India edits

Hi - I had made these edits after due discussion on the talkpage and with KnowledgeHegemonyPart2 here. The discussion took place over several days so I was not hasty in restoring them. S h i v a (Visnu) (talk) 20:39, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Thats a given, except my point is that the discussion had been open for 2-3 days and none of the edits significantly altered the article. It couldn't be helped if nobody else wished to comment - the principle person who raised the question was satisfied. S h i v a (Visnu) (talk) 02:00, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Himalaya POV

there is no need to put administered near k2 in the himalaya section if you think there is a need to put it there i also think that every indian mountain in disputed territory will be edited to add the indian administered sentence next to it unless you remove your pro indian anti pakistan edits from himalaya in the notable peaks section i will make sure every indian mountain has the administered sentence next to the location kapish 86.163.155.78 (talk) 18:17, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Re: Climate Chart

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Names of modern India in its official languages: What happened to this Wikipedia page?

Hello! :)

First, my English is basic, so I apologize for any mistake/s; then, I'm not a registered user, I'm not a “professional”, not even an amateur at editing Wikipedia, and I'm talking to you, since it seems you were the last one editing the page I'll refer to.

I have noticed that in the current version of this web page (http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Names_of_modern_India_in_its_official_languages), there are less than these 23 (http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Official_languages_of_India) languages listed, while in the past, it seems, the same page had more languages and names listed on it, please see http://web.archive.org/web/20071214145048/http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Official_names_of_India)

Not even Sanskrit is listed there anymore… and I'm sorry about that.

Well, I think that's all and I apologize for any possible mistake.

Thank you! :)

RB,GEM 00:35, 23 November 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.246.136.172 (talk)

Re:Names of India in its official languages

Thank you for your quick answer, Fundamental metric tensor, :). I think I'm ignorant about the issue Sanskrit-Hindi, but I was able to suppose that Hindi is maybe heavily derived form Sanskrit, thanks (parcially) to seen the following items in previous versions of such a page:

- Hindi: भारत गणराज्य Bhārata Gaṇarājya, short name: भारत Bhārat

- Sankrit: भारत गणराज्य Bhārata Gaṇarājya , short name: भारत Bhārata

Both seems the same, except for the pronunciation of the short name. Anyway, maybe the most logical approach would be leaving in there the language names and the their spaces in the table(?), although empty ones; thus making it easier to edit for someone with less expertisse or less time (or whatever). This may be especially important (I think) about Sanskrit, a classical language, and maybe much more than that. :)

Sorry about any mistake/s.

Well, thank you for your kindness, and I'm sending you sincere greetings from Argentina. :)

Enrique

(Oops! I mean…) :D

RB,GEM

190.246.136.172 (talk) 20:43, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

I was forgetting: Maybe I didn't understand what the following phrase means:

I am invariant under co-ordinate transformations

Bye!

190.246.136.172 (talk) 20:49, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of List of countries ranked by ethnic and cultural diversity level

The article List of countries ranked by ethnic and cultural diversity level has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

This is a list taken from a single paper, it is one author's view, which fails WP:N.

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Nomination of List of countries ranked by ethnic and cultural diversity level for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article List of countries ranked by ethnic and cultural diversity level is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

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Climate Data

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Your edits on Kargil War

More specifically this revert. It was not reverted by me but it would be useful if you used the talk page to discuss your two sources and that would allow editors to reach consensus. Myopia123 (talk) 04:24, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

Thanks User Myopia123, I have added a new discussion to the talk page. I am invariant under co-ordinate transformations (talk) 06:33, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

Kargil War

Took me a minute or two and I've found that until 20 October 2014,[2] we've been using these details for more than 4 years. I have restored the previous parameter because the edit war over parameter was recent, check the talk page, I have detailed more. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 10:21, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

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Islamic frontier

Hi Metric Tensor, I was just looking up the paper, The Islamic frontier in the east: Expansion into South Asia the other day . But I didn't have access to it via our library. Can you email it to me? Cheers, Kautilya3 (talk) 07:57, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

I dont have online access to it either. Will try and see if I can get a print copy. I am invariant under co-ordinate transformations (talk) 22:14, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

Request to take a look at User talk:Vectorgraphics

Sequence of events :

A. I create page named " Became predominantly Muslim due to missionary Sufi saints whose dargahs dot the landscape"

B. Speedy deletion notation served to the article

C. My response :

This article should not be speedy deleted as lacking sufficient context to identify its subject, because :

(1. Hi, I have been reading on Wikipedia for the past 8-10 years. I was going through history articles in the north west of subcontinent. I found this line on so many pages :

"...became predominantly Muslim due to missionary Sufi saints whose dargahs dot the landscape..."

2. When I searched in Wikipedia the exact phrase, I got more than a 100 hits. Also, as far as I know, no articles references the phrase. It is being treated as some sort of truth which does not require any verification. And this on a very sensitive topic in a region where (re)writing history is a big thing!.

3. Then I thought, I will check on Google. There I found more than 300000 hits of the exact same line on (besides Wikipedia itself! ) social media sites, blogs, tourism sites, and others. Of course, a huge majority of these might have themselves taken the phrase from Wikipedia itself!

4. Then I checked on Google Scholar the same phrase. There were 143 hits. However, I could not find any references to the same in the ones I checked.

5. So what has happened is that there is a cyclical reinforcement of (mis)information where the phrase comes unreferenced in one of the Wiki pages, and from there, it got copied into so many other pages and possibly then into all those external web pages.

6. Also, lets suppose there was some way that this line could be referenced. Then, I don't know of any other such long unreferenced phrase(s) which is/are present in more than 100 articles word by word!. I want to report abuse of WP:NPOV here, but I don't know against whom to. Also, another point to note is that this phrase is not present in any Islam\Muslims related article in India or Bangladesh or Afghanistan except for one.

7. ALso, I would like this to become a proper page and I am open to help and suggestions.

Thanks.

D. one notification + article deleted

E. My response :

@RHaworth and Huon:

Hi, Instead of deleting the page, could we edit the contents and\or the topic to make it more readable? I wanted to bring to the notice of a large number of users one of the existing discrepancies. If it were a light topic, I wouldn't even have put in the effort to create a page and then link it to 100 other pages. But the topic at hand is quite serious. Please do remember, the general user who reads this stuff mostly believes it to be true and even though its "spam" caught in a loop of unverifiablity as explained by @Huon:, seeing the same phrase on so many pages makes the user believe it must be true !

Also, I actually wanted to create an article/category or something where more general users can bring to the notice other such stuff (large unreferenced phrase in use in so many pages). Then, the above deleted page could become just one of the entries in that page.

I would also like to know if there is/are some action taken to remove/edit/verify the phrase I brought your notice to.

Thanks.

--Vectorgraphics (talk) 20:46, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

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Namaste

Your page says you are inactive. I like your signature. --AmritasyaPutra^T 06:55, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!

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You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:32, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

Wikipedia article on the 'Tabla'.

Dear fellow editor,
I was looking at the article on the tabla today and ended up being very confused by the two long subsections entitled "Gharanas" and "Raga". Looking back at the history, I noticed that, on 11 September 2015 (at 04:52), you applied this edit, adding a helpful edit summary ("The offending content seems to have been removed"). In essence, your edit removed the copyright violation template introduced by user @Sobreira: on 19 August 2014 (at 04:04), which included this link to existing copyrighted material published at the 'ragaculture' website.
However, after looking at the prose that remains in the article, there is a great deal of the original material still there, even including the words "The following chart", "Below the chart" (when there is no chart in the article) and "back to the top", which were all left in situ when the prose was lifted from the 'ragaculture' website and inserted into the article by IP user 117.217.88.12 on 16 May 2014 (at 08:39). There is also a long list of place names (one on each line), which looks like a de-constructed version of the same names as they appeared in the original table published at the 'ragaculture' website.
After reviewing the evidence I am supplying below, please may I suggest that you work with our fellow editor Sobreira and agree a plan to resolve this issue once and for all, and in accordance with the appropriate Wikipedia guidelines?
Thank you very much for your cooperation and for your contributions to our encyclopedia. I hope that my intervention will be received in the helpful and constructive spirit in which it was made.
With kind regards;
Patrick. ツ Pdebee.^{(talk)(guestbook)} 22:36, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
P.S.: Here is the evidence that the original material is still in the Wikipedia article; first the current prose in the Wikipedia article, followed by the original prose from the ragaculture website; I hope you will agree that the two texts are almost identical.

• 1.Wikipedia article – prose from the two subsections "Gharanas" and "Raga":
  

Gharanas

The word Gharana means "family". In relation to music, Gharana refers to a family of musicians, a school of music or a musical lineage connected with the name of a particular person or place. The characteristic feature of a Gharana is its special style of presentation: the result of the special and extraordinary creativity and innovation of a highly talented musician. The other musicians of the Gharana may have their own individual features of presentation, but their training and conditioning in the distinguishing style of the Gharana is bound to leave indelible and recognisable stamps on the presentation of the performer.

In this sense, Gharana are discernible for quite a long time, although some may have been distinct. Again, there are some Gharana that are "hybrid", i.e., they show mixed styles taken from other Gharana. The emergence of the Gharana system in our music and its growing importance in the 18th and 19th centuries had its own impact upon the evolution of Raga.

A Gharana may take the name of (a) the name of a person, family or group or (b) a place or region. Examples of the first category are Seni Gharana, Imdadkhani Gharana, Kavval Gharana and so on. Example of the second category are Gwalior Gharana. Agra Gharana and so on. In this context, it should be noted that there is a saying that to be able to call a school / tradition a Gharana there must have been at least three generations of established teacher - disciple pedagogic relationships already gone before. Thus, for example, a musician cannot merely migrate from India and settle in, say, Fiji and start a school with a band of students (no matter how serious, motivated and dedicated they all be) and then call his school the Fiji Gharana. Unless the teacher has produced students (Generation A) of acceptably high calibre who have proven themselves in the presence of knowledgeable (qualified) listeners, and the Generation A students have produced similarly acceptable and proven students (Generation B) themselves, and further the Generation B students in their turn have produced similar and proven students (Generation C), there cannot be a Fiji Gharana in this example.

Each Gharana has its own special Silsila or style or logic of presentation, within the general framework of the regional Bani (or, for instrumental music, Baj) which applied to it. Thus, the rise of the Gharana system resulted in the segmentation of the different styles of Raga development. This sometimes led to different versions of the same Raga, specially when comparisons arose between the presentations of musicians of different Gharana presenting the same Raga. This has had a spin-off to the present day. For example, Gwalior Gharana musicians use Shuddha Ni in addition to Komal Ni in Raga Rageshvari but musicians of several other Gharana use only Komal Ni and not Shuddha Ni.

Another interesting phenomenon in this context is that before the rise of the Gharana system, different regions had different Raga. That is to say, musicians of western India would normally sing or play Raga that were different from those of, say, northern, central or eastern India. But after the rise of the various Gharana, this compartmentalisation became diluted, for several reasons:-

A musician of a particular Gharana may be invited to a court situated far away for performance or even service. In that case, it would be natural that he is influenced by the Raga in vogue in that place, just as the "native" or "local" musicians of that place would be influenced by the new (to them) Raga that the Gharana musician brought with him. Often, certain Raga and / or Bandish or compositions would be considered the "property" of a particular Gharana. That is, the Raga in question would be known only to the musicians of that Gharana and to none else. This would be especially true if the Raga was created in the Gharana. It was the custom to sometimes "gift" some of these Raga / Bandish as dowry to a son-in-law. In this way, Many Raga found their way into Gharana where the Raga had not been in existence before. If the recipient or new "owner" of the Raga was a musician of another Gharana, he would naturally be guided by his own background conditioning in presenting this received Raga; this would quite conceivably cause some variation in it that might remain or even become heightened with the passage of time.

Another common custom was for the princes and noblemen, and also for the new breed of rich men on the post-Moghul period (18th and 19th centuries) to hold Sabha or musical soirees where musicians of different Gharana would present their music. This would lead to an interchange of ideas where musicians would be influenced by the presentations of those of other Gharana. Thus the Gharana system served to "dilute" the previous "insularity" of Raga music. The result was that musicians of one Gharana began to present Raga of another Gharana in their own conditioned styles. For example, if a musician trained in the Gaurhar Bani style , where there was a good deal of Vilambit or slow tempo development with plenty of long drawn , took up a Raga like, say, Bahar, in which there was no Vilambit, he would by his own background pedagogic conditioning have a strong tendency to present Bahar in his own style, that is, he would incorporate plenty of Vilambit passages into the Raga and perhaps compose his own Vilambit Bandish in the Raga. Thus, the very character of the Raga would change over time. A good example of this phenomenon is the well known Vilambit composition "Nabi ke Durbar" in the Raga Basant, which was not a slow Raga to start with.

Raga

in the 16th century new Raga, often with older names, emerged. It was now possible for two Raga of divergent sentiments or characteristics to have the same name. Previously, a Raga may have had minor variants in such a way that the basic character or sentiment of the Raga remained intact. For example, Pandit Ahobal reports in his monumental work Sangit Parijata (16th century) that the Raga Bhairavi had two forms, one with R and the other with R. The manner of application of both R and R were, however, the same. Thus the basic nature of Bhairavi - the main sentiment that it conveyed - remained the same in either case, as all the other notes, their Kaku, their Sangati etc. were the same in either form. The "mood" of Bhairavi, therefore, remained constant. Indeed, as long as this was maintained, such minor variations in the presentation of a Raga were acceptable.

However, in the Gharana system, two Raga bearing the same name could have completely different features, and hence completely dissimilar moods. Thus for example, in the case of the Raga Shree, it is seen that a type of Shree called Poorvi Shree, similar to the modern Shree, was in vogue. This is reported in Hrdayanarayana's Hrdayakautuka (17th century). The original Shree, which had G, D and N, became more or less obsolete in north India although in south India, it continued to be (and still is) in existence. By and by, this new Raga Poorvi Shree was abbreviated to Shree and became the Shri of modern times. The original Shri is to be seen in north India in the Raga Bageshri (also called Bageshvari), in altered form. Such metamorphoses were the result of the action of the Gharana system. In like manner, some Gharana used D in Raga like Lalit and Poorvi whereas some other Gharana used D instead. The net result of all this was that the system of Raga became quite confusing, since it lost a good deal of the standardisation of earlier times.

The following chart gives the names of some Gharana in vocal and instrumental (melodic) music.

Below the chart there is a brief description of the musical characteristics of five major Gharana of vocal (Khayal) music that are prevalent in present times - Gwalior, Agra, Jaipur-Atrauli, Patiala and Kirana. Each Gharana has its own special features. For better appreciation of Khayal, it is important for the listener to understand and keep in mind these features. In this context, it is also important to know that the Tabla accompanist must be fully aware of the special features of the Gharana of the artist he is accompanying. If the accompanist has a less than proper understanding about these features, he will not be able to provide the correct form of accompaniment that is appropriate to the music of the Gharana. Many an otherwise good - even great - vocal performance has been ruined or all but ruined because the poor vocalist has had to struggle against the complacently ignorant accompaniment of the Tabla player. Indeed, Prof. Basavi Mukerji has herself had this unfortunate experience a few times, where even "renowned" Tabla players have provided completely inappropriate accompaniment. That her performance was still an enormously successful one was the result of the sheer robustness of her supreme and universally acknowledged artistry. back to top

Names of Gharana of Vocal and Instrumental (melodic) music: Vocal Music Gharana / Instrumental (Melodic) Music Gharana Dhrupad Khayal Tappa Thumri Rabab Been Sitar Sarode Sarengi Esraj Seni Gwalior Tilmandi Atrauli Jaipur Agra Benaras Udaipur Betiah Vishnupur Delhi #1 (Qavval or Qavvalbachcha) Gwalior Tilmandi Atrauli Jaipur (Alladiya) Agra Benaras Lucknow Kirana Punjab (Patiala) Delhi#2 Sikanderabad Rangile Rampur Seheswan Bhendibazar Indore Mevati Lucknow Benaras Lucknow Benaras Punjab Seni Seni Kirana Gharpure Jaipur Seni Gwalior- Jaipur Imdadkhani Seni Rampur Kirana Delhi Gaya Vishnupur

—Wikipedia article; sections "Gharanas" & "Raga"

• 2.Original prose at the ragaculture website:

The word Gharana means "family". In relation to music, Gharana refers to a family of musicians, a school of music or a musical lineage connected with the name of a particular person or place. The characteristic feature of a Gharana is its special style of presentation: the result of the special and extraordinary creativity and innovation of a highly talented musician. The other musicians of the Gharana may have their own individual features of presentation, but their training and conditioning in the distinguishing style of the Gharana is bound to leave indelible and recognisable stamps on the presentation of the performer.

In this sense, Gharana are discernible for quite a long time, although some may have been distinct. Again, there are some Gharana that are "hybrid", i.e., they show mixed styles taken from other Gharana. The emergence of the Gharana system in our music and its growing importance in the 18th and 19th centuries had its own impact upon the evolution of Raga.

A Gharana may take the name of (a) the name of a person, family or group or (b) a place or region. Examples of the first category are Seni Gharana, Imdadkhani Gharana, Kavval Gharana and so on. Example of the second category are Gwalior Gharana. Agra Gharana and so on. In this context, it should be noted that there is a saying that to be able to call a school / tradition a Gharana there must have been at least three generations of established teacher - disciple pedagogic relationships already gone before. Thus, for example, a musician cannot merely migrate from India and settle in, say, Fiji and start a school with a band of students (no matter how serious, motivated and dedicated they all be) and then call his school the Fiji Gharana. Unless the teacher has produced students (Generation A) of acceptably high calibre who have proven themselves in the presence of knowledgeable (qualified) listeners, and the Generation A students have produced similarly acceptable and proven students (Generation B) themselves, and further the Generation B students in their turn have produced similar and proven students (Generation C), there cannot be a Fiji Gharana in this example.

Each Gharana has its own special Silsila or style or logic of presentation, within the general framework of the regional Bani (or, for instrumental music, Baj) which applied to it. Thus, the rise of the Gharana system resulted in the segmentation of the different styles of Raga development. This sometimes led to different versions of the same Raga, specially when comparisons arose between the presentations of musicians of different Gharana presenting the same Raga. This has had a spin-off to the present day. For example, Gwalior Gharana musicians use Shuddha Ni in addition to Komal Ni in Raga Rageshvari but musicians of several other Gharana use only Komal Ni and not Shuddha Ni.

Another interesting phenomenon in this context is that before the rise of the Gharana system, different regions had different Raga. That is to say, musicians of western India would normally sing or play Raga that were different from those of, say, northern, central or eastern India. But after the rise of the various Gharana, this compartmentalisation became diluted, for several reasons:-

1.A musician of a particular Gharana may be invited to a court situated far away for performance or even service. In that case, it would be natural that he is influenced by the Raga in vogue in that place, just as the "native" or "local" musicians of that place would be influenced by the new (to them) Raga that the Gharana musician brought with him.

2.Often, certain Raga and / or Bandish or compositions would be considered the "property" of a particular Gharana. That is, the Raga in question would be known only to the musicians of that Gharana and to none else. This would be especially true if the Raga was created in the Gharana. It was the custom to sometimes "gift" some of these Raga / Bandish as dowry to a son-in-law. In this way, Many Raga found their way into Gharana where the Raga had not been in existence before. If the recipient or new "owner" of the Raga was a musician of another Gharana, he would naturally be guided by his own background conditioning in presenting this received Raga; this would quite conceivably cause some variation in it that might remain or even become heightened with the passage of time.

3.Another common custom was for the princes and noblemen, and also for the new breed of rich men on the post-Moghul period (18th and 19th centuries) to hold Sabha or musical soirees where musicians of different Gharana would present their music. This would lead to an interchange of ideas where musicians would be influenced by the presentations of those of other Gharana. Thus the Gharana system served to "dilute" the previous "insularity" of Raga music. The result was that musicians of one Gharana began to present Raga of another Gharana in their own conditioned styles. For example, if a musician trained in the Gaurhar Bani style , where there was a good deal of Vilambit or slow tempo development with plenty of long drawn , took up a Raga like, say, Bahar, in which there was no Vilambit, he would by his own background pedagogic conditioning have a strong tendency to present Bahar in his own style, that is, he would incorporate plenty of Vilambit passages into the Raga and perhaps compose his own Vilambit Bandish in the Raga. Thus, the very character of the Raga would change over time. A good example of this phenomenon is the well known Vilambit composition "Nabi ke Durbar" in the Raga Basant, which was not a slow Raga to start with.

Another fallout of this dilution was the emergence of new Raga, often in old names. It was now possible for two Raga of divergent sentiments or characteristics to have the same name. Previously, a Raga may have had minor variants in such a way that the basic character or sentiment of the Raga remained intact. For example, Pandit Ahobal reports in his monumental work Sangit Parijata (16th century) that the Raga Bhairavi had two forms, one with R and the other with R. The manner of application of both R and R were, however, the same. Thus the basic nature of Bhairavi - the main sentiment that it conveyed - remained the same in either case, as all the other notes, their Kaku, their Sangati etc. were the same in either form. The "mood" of Bhairavi, therefore, remained constant. Indeed, as long as this was maintained, such minor variations in the presentation of a Raga were acceptable.

However, in the Gharana system, two Raga bearing the same name could have completely different features, and hence completely dissimilar moods. Thus for example, in the case of the Raga Shree, it is seen that a type of Shree called Poorvi Shree, similar to the modern Shree, was in vogue. This is reported in Hrdayanarayana's Hrdayakautuka (17th century). The original Shree, which had G, D and N, became more or less obsolete in north India although in south India, it continued to be (and still is) in existence. By and by, this new Raga Poorvi Shree was abbreviated to Shree and became the Shri of modern times. The original Shri is to be seen in north India in the Raga Bageshri (also called Bageshvari), in altered form. Such metamorphoses were the result of the action of the Gharana system. In like manner, some Gharana used D in Raga like Lalit and Poorvi whereas some other Gharana used D instead. The net result of all this was that the system of Raga became quite confusing, since it lost a good deal of the standardisation of earlier times.

The following chart gives the names of some Gharana in vocal and instrumental (melodic) music.

Below the chart there is a brief description of the musical charecteristics of five major Gharana of vocal (Khayal) music that are prevelant in present times - Gwalior, Agra, Jaipur-Atrauli, Patiala and Kirana. Each Gharana has its own special features. For better appreciation of Khayal, it is important for the listener to understand and keep in mind these features. In this context, it is also important to know that the Tabla accompanist must be fully aware of the special features of the Gharana of the artiste he is accompanying. If the accompanist has a less than proper understanding about these features, he will not be able to provide the correct form of accompaniment that is appropriate to the music of the Gharana. Many an otherwise good - even great - vocal performance has been ruined or all but ruined because the poor vocalist has had to struggle against the complacently ignorant accompaniment of the Tabla player. Indeed, Prof. Basavi Mukerji has herself had this unfortunate experience a few times, where even "renowned" Tabla players have provided completely inappropriate accompaniment. That her performance was still an enormously successful one was the result of the sheer robustness of her supreme and universally acknowledged artistry. back to top

Names of Gharana of Vocal and Instrumental (melodic) music:

Vocal Music Gharana Instrumental (Melodic) Music Gharana Dhrupad Khayal Tappa Thumri Rabab Been Sitar Sarode Sarengi Esraj •Seni •Gwalior •Tilmandi •Atrauli •Jaipur •Agra •Benaras •Udaipur •Betiah •Vishnupur •Delhi #1 (Qavval or Qavvalbachcha) •Gwalior •Tilmandi •Atrauli •Jaipur (Alladiya) •Agra •Benaras •Lucknow •Kirana •Punjab (Patiala) •Delhi #2 •Sikanderabad •Rangile •Rampur •Seheswan •Bhendibazar •Indore •Mevati •Lucknow •Benaras •Lucknow •Benaras •Punjab •Seni •Seni •Kirana •Gharpure •Jaipur •Seni •Gwalior- Jaipur •Imdadkhani •Seni •Rampur •Kirana •Delhi •Punjab •Gaya •Vishnupur

—http://www.ragaculture.com/gharana.html

India:Official Language

I never said it was the "sole" official language, because there are 23 officially recognized languages, which is included in the infobox. I know that it is a widely held belief that India is bilingual in its "official language" policy, but in reality it does say that English is to be used alongside Hindi, but Hindi is the official language. There are provisions which call for the eventual "phasing out" of English from the government work. There are sources that say that Hindi is the official language of the Union. Some of these laws are disputed and controversial, but that is what it currently says. I don't feel that this constitutes WP:OR because it is specifically said. I know that there is no national language, but it is the official language infobox.-Akhila3151996 (talk) 17:17, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

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Paratha

About your edit to the paratha article: it seems to me that the website that you provide as a source, gives a description of what paratha is now. If I look up the sanskrit words from which the word "paratha" is derived according to the source (S. पर, or परा+स्थः, or स्थितः), these mean "situated", "placed", "on" etcetera. Or am I reading the source website incorrectly? - Takeaway (talk) 11:21, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

Sorry @Takeaway:, you are correct. The etymological root is from Sanskrit where it means placed on a परा (highest point), but the Hindi meaning is the cake. I have made changes to reflect this. I am invariant under co-ordinate transformations (talk) 17:27, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

You can't just make a post ...

... and without waiting for a consensus make an edit without regard to previous consensus on Jana Gana Mana. Let the discussion evolve on the article's talk page in the coming days and see where it goes. Best regards, Fowler&fowler«Talk» 04:46, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

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October 2017

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Hindustan. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.

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If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes; work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing. —MBlaze Lightning ^T 06:01, 28 October 2017 (UTC)

(tps) Sorry MBlaze, I don't agree with this warning. FMT first raised his concerns on the talk page 1 October. Having heard no objections, he made an edit on 5 October. The people who might have had objections need to discuss them on the talk page instead of trying to bulldoze their way through. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 15:41, 28 October 2017 (UTC)

Email

Hi FMT, I can't respond to your email because it appears that you haven't enabled your email. Please do so under preferences. In any case, I don't think any action is warranted. Cheers, Kautilya3 (talk) 19:03, 28 October 2017 (UTC)

FMT, I think it would also be useful if you change your signature to correspond to your user name. It gets confusing in discussions otherwise. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 10:52, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

Oops, just saw this. Have changed my signature to correspond to my user name. Fundamental_metric_tensor 16:04, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

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