- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 21:09, 2 December 2019 (UTC)
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Merryll Saylan
[[File:|133x150px|Jelly Donut (1979) ]]
Jelly Donut (1979)
... that visitors of the Mint Museum in Charlotte can see a jelly donut (pictured) on display?Source: Mint Museum Collection Database)- ALT1:
... that American artist Merryll Saylan woodturned a jelly donut (pictured) on display in Charlotte's Mint Museum?Source: Mint Museum Collection Database
- ALT1:
- Reviewed: Piano Concerto (Clara Schumann)
Created by Soulbust (talk). Self-nominated at 08:36, 20 September 2019 (UTC).
- I'm fine with this DYK nom being accepted either with or without the image. Soulbust (talk) 08:37, 20 September 2019 (UTC)
Interesting life on good sources, such as Smithsonian. I had to look up woodturning, so prefer ALT1 by far. No way - not even for April Fool's - to get away with a pipe from jelly donut to a woman's biography (but I smiled). IF you want to pursue the original, please add at least her name, and better tell us where the Mint Museum is, with the short name. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:21, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
- Thank you for adjusting some. Please (next time) don't change the hook I commented, or the conbversation makes no sense to someone else. Please, if you don't want ALT1, word ALT2 below, with her name. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:03, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
- ALT2:
... that Merryll Saylan's Jelly Donut (pictured) is on display at the Mint Museum in Charlotte?I simplified, rearranged, and unpiped ALT0. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 18:37, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
I like that one, but am open to other suggestions. The image is licensed and shows well what we talk about. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:10, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
- ALT2:
- Thank you for adjusting some. Please (next time) don't change the hook I commented, or the conbversation makes no sense to someone else. Please, if you don't want ALT1, word ALT2 below, with her name. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:03, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
The hook boils down to "did you know that an artwork is on display at a museum?" which is a commonplace and therefore by definition uninteresting. As I was unable to come up with a viable ALT, I have pulled it from the queue for further discussion. Gatoclass (talk) 13:15, 22 October 2019 (UTC)
- ALT3: ... that Merryll Saylan helped pioneer the application of color in Woodturning art, in works such as Jelly Donut (pictured)? Mary Mark Ockerbloom (talk) 00:46, 24 October 2019 (UTC)
Reviewer needed to check ALT3, since the previous hooks have been struck. Thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 00:46, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
Jelly Donut though is more an example of her using different materials than it is an example of applying color. Gatoclass (talk) 04:41, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
- Here are some tweaks which include the different materials:
- ALT3a: ... that Merryll Saylan helped pioneer the application of color and use of other materials in woodturning art, in works such as Jelly Donut (pictured)?
- ALT3b: ... that Merryll Saylan helped pioneer the application of color and combination of different materials in woodturning art, in works such as Jelly Donut (pictured)?
- RebeccaGreen (talk) 05:04, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
I think either ALT3a or ALT3b could work, based on my reading of the article. They are cited inline; I am assuming good faith for the source as I can't get a snippet of the Google Books link that mentions the part in question. The rest of the review is per Gerda. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 00:21, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
- The hooks are misleading, because Jelly Donut is an example of only the latter technique, not the former. ALT3a would work without the Jelly Donut reference however, which is superfluous in any case. ALT3b reads rather awkwardly to me, even without the Jelly Donut reference. Gatoclass (talk) 10:11, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
- Just doing a drive-by, has anyone considered that the original may be suitable for use on April Fools Day? The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 10:55, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
- No, for the reasons given above. Gatoclass (talk) 13:09, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
- I interpreted both hooks to be discussing Saylan's style in general, and that Jelly Donut was just simply an example of her work. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 22:58, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
- And that was the meaning I thought they expressed. How is it misleading to say she pioneered some things in her art, and here is an example of her art? Besides which, the colour in the donut may come from a different material rather than from "the application of color", but there is colour in it. Having to read the article to find out whether it's a different material or an application of colour is the aim of a hook. And as far as April Fools' Day goes, if WP:EASTEREGGs are allowed in DYK on that day, it seems perfect for it. RebeccaGreen (talk) 09:47, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
- I've just looked at WP:DYKAPRIL. One thing it says is "Remember, we are trying to confuse and mislead Wikipedians and visitors, not lie to them." I don't think ALT3a or ALT3b are misleading at all, certainly not enough for April Fools' Day, but the original hook could be. RebeccaGreen (talk) 10:48, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
- From what I can remember, Easter Egg hooks are allowed and in fact common place on April Fools' Day, but are otherwise discouraged at other times. I would have to agree here that the hooks don't actually seem to be misleading. I thought the "and" between "application of color" and the rest would suggest a general summary as opposed to specificity, meaning that even if "Jelly Donut" doesn't necessarily fit the "application of color" part (though I thought it did from the picture), it at least matches the woodturning part. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 11:21, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
- Gatoclass, would you be satisfied with the following emendation to ALT3a:
- ALT3a1: ... that Merryll Saylan helped pioneer the application of color and use of other materials in woodturning art, the latter in works such as Jelly Donut (pictured)?
- We need some sort of connection to the Jelly Donut picture, which I think is worth running. If the picture isn't used, then the following alternate makes sense:
- ALT3a2: ... that Merryll Saylan helped pioneer the application of color and use of other materials in woodturning art?
- If at all possible, I think it's best that this nomination run regularly rather than get mixed up in April Fools' Day; it's really not a good candidate, and would have to wait over four months. BlueMoonset (talk) 17:56, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
- 3a1 and 3a2 both look fine to me. Gatoclass (talk) 20:22, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
- Both sound good too, though the first makes best sense if used as a picture hook. Though I still think ALT3a1 could be revised slightly since it doesn't seem that clear what "the latter" is referring to there. ALT3a2 is good to go, however. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 02:25, 24 November 2019 (UTC)
- 3a1 and 3a2 both look fine to me. Gatoclass (talk) 20:22, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
- From what I can remember, Easter Egg hooks are allowed and in fact common place on April Fools' Day, but are otherwise discouraged at other times. I would have to agree here that the hooks don't actually seem to be misleading. I thought the "and" between "application of color" and the rest would suggest a general summary as opposed to specificity, meaning that even if "Jelly Donut" doesn't necessarily fit the "application of color" part (though I thought it did from the picture), it at least matches the woodturning part. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 11:21, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
- I've just looked at WP:DYKAPRIL. One thing it says is "Remember, we are trying to confuse and mislead Wikipedians and visitors, not lie to them." I don't think ALT3a or ALT3b are misleading at all, certainly not enough for April Fools' Day, but the original hook could be. RebeccaGreen (talk) 10:48, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
- And that was the meaning I thought they expressed. How is it misleading to say she pioneered some things in her art, and here is an example of her art? Besides which, the colour in the donut may come from a different material rather than from "the application of color", but there is colour in it. Having to read the article to find out whether it's a different material or an application of colour is the aim of a hook. And as far as April Fools' Day goes, if WP:EASTEREGGs are allowed in DYK on that day, it seems perfect for it. RebeccaGreen (talk) 09:47, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
- I interpreted both hooks to be discussing Saylan's style in general, and that Jelly Donut was just simply an example of her work. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 22:58, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
- No, for the reasons given above. Gatoclass (talk) 13:09, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
- Just doing a drive-by, has anyone considered that the original may be suitable for use on April Fools Day? The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 10:55, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
- The hooks are misleading, because Jelly Donut is an example of only the latter technique, not the former. ALT3a would work without the Jelly Donut reference however, which is superfluous in any case. ALT3b reads rather awkwardly to me, even without the Jelly Donut reference. Gatoclass (talk) 10:11, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
