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Template:Did you know nominations/Marian Anderson

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 12:15, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

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Marian Anderson

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Marian Anderson
Marian Anderson
  • ... that African-American contralto Marian Anderson (pictured) was denied permission by the Daughters of the American Revolution to sing at Constitution Hall in 1939, causing thousands of its members to resign? In 1939, the Daughters of the American Revolution (DAR) denied permission to Anderson for a concert on April 9 at Constitution Hall under a "white performers-only" policy in effect at the time. . . . As a result of the ensuing furor, thousands of DAR members, including First Lady Eleanor Roosevelt, resigned from the organization.
    • ALT1:... that African-American contralto Marian Anderson (pictured) was a significant figure in the American civil rights movement, singing for benefit concerts at the NAACP and at the 1963 March on Washington? She was active in supporting the civil rights movement during the 1960s, giving benefit concerts for the Congress of Racial Equality, the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People and the America-Israel Cultural Foundation. In 1963, she sang at the March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom.

Improved to Good Article status by Ahsoka Dillard (talk). Self-nominated at 17:05, 3 September 2020 (UTC).

Substantial GA on fine sources, offline sources accepted AGF, no copyvio obvious. - The iconic image is licensed and almost must. I learned a lot reading! I knew that she was the first African-American at the Met, but didn't know it was her only role there. I like the original hook a bit better, but perhaps only because I'd have to look up NAACP ;) - I'd probably say that Sibelius dedicated a piece to her. Finland seems not regarded as Europe then? I'd say "recital tour" instead of "singing tour". Do know what she sang for her first in Carnegie Hall? ... or anything more detailed about repertoire? Just curious, having written some of Jessye Norman. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:07, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
  • The QPQ is not a full review, but as the nominator has less than 5 DYK credits, no QPQ is necessary. Yoninah (talk) 20:21, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
  • Hi, I came by to promote ALT0 to an image slot, but the hook is over 200 char. We see she's African-American. Can we delete that?
  • There is also close paraphrasing from the sources:
  • Source: In the late 1930's, she gave about 70 recitals a year in the United States. But her fame did not entirely eradicate the prejudice she confronted as a young black singer touring the United States.
  • Article: In the late 1930s, Anderson gave about 70 recitals a year in the United States. Although by then quite famous, her stature did not completely end the prejudice she confronted as a young black singer touring the United States.
  • Source: In 1980, the United States Treasury Department coined a half-ounce gold commemorative medal with her likeness, and in 1984 she was the first recipient of the Eleanor Roosevelt Human Rights Award of the City of New York.
  • Article: In 1980, the United States Treasury Department coined a half-ounce gold commemorative medal with her likeness, and in 1984 she was the first recipient of the Eleanor Roosevelt Human Rights Award of the City of New York.
  • And why is there so much copying from the Western Connecticut State University site? Yoninah (talk) 20:41, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
  • Yoninah, Could you verify when the Western Connecticut State University site page was written and published? Is it possible that WCSU copied from Wikipedia? When you look at the citations for those sections, they do not cite the WCSU copy as the source. Please let me know. Ahsoka Dillard (talk) 20:59, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
  • I do not know how to check that. The website is copyright 2018. Yoninah (talk) 21:11, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
  • I think that the entire university website was certainly present in 2018. From the wayback machine, the Marian Anderson History Page was captured on June 22. I've been trying to search the page for when the fundraising campaign began, but to no avail. I began revising the article in July to be considered for GA status. As a trained historian, I would not have used this page as a source because I understand the 5 Tenets of Wikipedia and went through a 10-week Scholars and Scientist course through WikiEdu this past spring. Please feel free to review my article history and to confirm that the sources within Wikipedia are correct. I suspect that WCSU copied from Wikipedia. Ahsoka Dillard (talk) 21:30, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
  • Yoninah and Ahsoka Dillard, I did note on the GAC review that two websites had copied the Wikipedia article verbatim, and that only one bothered to acknowledge it. I should have left urls in the review, but I didn't - my error. WCSU specifically credited their entire biographical text to Wikipedia. I thought it was odd that, given their naming their school for the performing arts after her, that they would not dig into their own records and write an original bio of her contributions. That declaration seems to have been removed, as I see nothing on the WCSU page that credits Wikipedia. Without urls, I can't recall the other website I noticed. — Maile (talk) 13:28, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
  • Yoninah, Ahsoka Dillard, Gerda Arendt: Thanks to Alanna the Brave, I can at least account for some verbatim copying from Wikipedia to other sites, other than WCSU: diff. She was unable to help with the WCSU issue, but in my leaky memory, I'm pretty sure I saw that Wikipedia attribution somewhere on their site. But not now. So, how do we resolve this issue? — Maile (talk) 17:39, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
  • @Maile66: I think you rewrite the phrases that are coming up as close paraphrasing so there will be no doubts. Yoninah (talk) 17:43, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
  • Yoninah and Maile66, yes! I will get those phrases rewritten. Will take a closer look to see if there are more. Ping you back, later.Ahsoka Dillard (talk) 17:10, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
  • @Ahsoka Dillard: Please see this Earwig's report highlighting the excessive close paraphrasing that remains. Yoninah (talk) 21:27, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
    (watching:) I don't see why Wikipedia's text has to be changed, just because others copied it which is permitted. (And then when it's changed, another site copies that version, and we need to change again, or what?) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:45, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
    • If that is happening, that as soon as we update the text, the other website copies it, how do we verify that? How do we calculate when the other website uploads the new text? Yoninah (talk) 21:55, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
      I'm not deeply into this, but remember Jessye Norman: hard work to rephrase what was similar to another site, and thinking all the time that the other site probably took it from us ... --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:04, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
  • Unfortunately, there seems to be a great deal of close paraphrasing, if not copyvio, still remaining in the article of reliable sites that clearly published before we did. I am very surprised that it was not identified in the GA review. Maile, I went through the top six sites identified by Earwig, and while it's clear that WCSU copied from Wikipedia, the article is too close to the New York Times obituary in the "70 recitals" and Eleanor Roosevelt Award material, and the second paragraph in the "1939 Lincoln Memorial Concert" section is mostly copied from the Washington Spark source (none of the material was in the article the day prior to the Spark publication). The BlackPast material doesn't seem to be an issue (the 57.6 score was 29.6 when comparing BlackPast to the article as it stood the day before that source was published, and the similarities then and now look to be names of organizations and the like), UPenn appears to be standard names/phrases/sources, and PBS appears to be based on long quotes. When I realized that two of the top six Earwig reports were actual problems, I stopped at that point, since the article needs going over by someone who is particularly skilled at identifying close paraphrasing/copyvio issues. If Nikkimaria feels it's worth her time, it would be great if she could check, but if she'd rather wait until the issues I've identified are dealt with, I can understand. Even though the GA review was passed seven weeks ago, perhaps it should be reopened to address these issues; as it stands right now, it does not meet the GA criteria. BlueMoonset (talk) 21:24, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
  • Ahem. As mentioned above, I did indeed miss the copyvio from WCSU, or somehow in that review saw something that made me believe they had copied Wikipedia. However, please see what I mentioned above, that Alanna the Brave, can at least account for some verbatim copying from Wikipedia to other sites, other than WCSU: diff. Unless something else has come up since she posted and ran a copyvio of her own, it's only the WCSU site that is copied. But as I also mentioned above, somehow in my GA review, I remember seeing a notation that they also copied from Wikipedia. But that's neither here nor there now, so ... we still deal with the other. If something else has cropped up, it was at least after Alanna the Brave did her run through. — Maile (talk) 21:37, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
  • Maile, it is clear, at least to me, that the WCSU copied Wikipedia without attribution: this is a page set up there for a current campaign to raise money for a Marian Anderson institute or department or somesuch, and hasn't been around nearly long enough as compared to the Wikipedia article. I'm sure there are other sites out there that have copied Wikipedia as well. My point is that there are at least two sites where the material existed prior to the information's introduction to the Wikipedia article, and that needs to be dealt with. BlueMoonset (talk) 00:25, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
  • Well, at least we agree on WCSU - I feel better about that one, now. But what other two sites are you talking about? Of the two Alanna the Brave linked, I think one of them actually attributed Wikipedia as their source, and the other one was determined by the dates she saw to have copied from Wikipedia. — Maile (talk)
  • Maile, I mentioned them in my post starting this thread: the New York Times obituary (source 1) and the Washington Spark article (source 27). They're the second and sixth entries on Earwig. As noted, I stopped after finding these, since it was clear that the article here had issues. BlueMoonset (talk) 00:55, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
  • Ahsoka Dillard, Yoninah, Alanna the Brave, Gerda Arendt - I guess all I can do here is say I messed up on the GAC review, and apologize. Hopefully, one or more persons here can help fix this. It's been a long day other than Wikipedia, and I'm already worn out. No more today, please. — Maile (talk) 01:21, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
  • Maile66 I'll dig into the article the upcoming weeks. As a new editor, the GA and DYK process has been a learning experience to say the least. Thanks to all that have looked at this. Ahsoka Dillard (talk) 13:31, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
  • Ahsoka Dillard - Been there, done that, except that my first experience was with a completely trashed Audie Murphy, beset by a semi-vandal, who disrupted all the way. You'll never forget the skills you learn here. Everyone here wants you to succeed. Thanks for sticking with this. — Maile (talk) 13:40, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
  • @Yoninah: @BlueMoonset:. I have rephrased the article (diff) in respect of the copyvio referred to above (I ignored WCSU on the understanding that they copied WP). Being in UK, I cannot access one of the sources, so please would you kindly check that all issues are now resolved. As far as I am aware, the only similarities remaining are the proper names and titles. Thank you. Storye book (talk) 13:52, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
  • I see close paraphrasing from the University of Pennsylvania source:
  • Source: She visited Eastern European capitals and Russia and returned again to Scandinavia, where "Marian fever" had spread to small towns and villages where she had thousands of fans.
  • Article: She visited Eastern European capitals and Russia and returned again to Scandinavia, where "Marian fever" had spread to small towns and villages where she had thousands of fans.
  • Yoninah (talk) 19:53, 27 October 2020 (UTC)
  • Done. That must have been the source that I could not access. Storye book (talk) 20:42, 27 October 2020 (UTC)
BlueMoonset asked me to comment on potential other paraphrasing concerns here. I did see some content in the Early life section that was previously cited to this and closely enough to warrant quoting. I also found that there are a number of sources other than WCSU that copied or likely copied from this article, which complicates things - myblackhistory, Hollywood Walk of Fame, and this book all have publication dates (or earliest archive dates) postdating the content here. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:04, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
I have rephrased the copyvio from the NY Times (and cited it), as referred to by Nikkimaria. I have not dealt with the other points raised by Nikkimaria; that is a matter for others to decide. Storye book (talk) 11:45, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
Yoninah, you found the original copyvios. Are you satisfied with the edits and ready to sign off on the nomination? BlueMoonset (talk) 05:15, 31 October 2020 (UTC)
@BlueMoonset: I don't see any more close paraphrasing. But there are 2 footnotes labeled "permanent dead link". The first one is not a dead link at all. Maybe these sites need to be archived? (I'm not sure how to do that.) Yoninah (talk) 18:54, 31 October 2020 (UTC)
The "dead link" bot lied, or malfunctioned or something. I clicked on the NSDAR Archives Marian Anderson Documents link, and it took me right to it. The Seventh Day Adventist link is not a dead link, either, but should have pointed to a to a PDF link on that page, so I fixed that also. All good now? — Maile (talk) 19:25, 31 October 2020 (UTC)
  • Yes, thanks. Restoring tick for ALT0 per Gerda Arendt. Yoninah (talk) 19:35, 31 October 2020 (UTC)
  • Yay! *¨¨*:•.•:*¨¨*:•..•:*¨¨*:•..•:*¨¨*:•. Storye book (talk) 20:53, 31 October 2020 (UTC)
  • Let the bells ring out, and the banners fly! Tis done!! — Maile (talk) 22:31, 31 October 2020 (UTC)
  • Thanks, Yoninah. I hope this can be used for a lead hook: Anderson was special. BlueMoonset (talk) 22:54, 31 October 2020 (UTC)
  • @BlueMoonset: Yes, I'm planning on it. I'm just waiting a short interval to space out black-and-white U.S. person images. Yoninah (talk) 23:06, 31 October 2020 (UTC)
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