- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 00:26, 25 August 2017 (UTC)
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Emma Rogan
edit... that the 1994 murder of the father of Irish politician Emma Rogan is the subject of an unreleased documentary film by American director Alex Gibney?Hook sources: 1/ Emma the daughter of massacre victim [1][2]; 2/ film explained in 2016 [3]; 3/ film withdrawn in 2017 [4]
- Reviewed: Laxmi Narayan Chaudhary
- Comment #1: Commons has 2 pictures of the pub where the massacre took place: File:Loughinisland - geograph.org.uk - 199475.jpg & File:O'Toole's Pub, The Heights, Loughinisland - geograph.org.uk - 1444364.jpg. However, I don't think that either image would make much sense without explaining that the killings took place in a pub, and that would need more words.
- Comment #2: This hook relates to The Troubles in Northern Ireland, which remains a contentious topic. Rogan is an Irish Republican from the Sinn Féin party, so to avoid suggestions of partisanship the Irish-based news sources used for the hook facts are those affiliated to the other side of the conflict: the British BBC, and the unionist Belfast Telegraph. The only explicitly Republican source in the article is a ref to An Phoblacht, purely for the age of her father at time of death.
Created by BrownHairedGirl (talk). Self-nominated at 14:43, 17 July 2017 (UTC).
- The hook could fit an extra "in a pub", & so use a pic, but the pic needs to be in the article first. Johnbod (talk) 02:06, 28 July 2017 (UTC)
- @BrownHairedGirl: New, long enough, consistently cited, QPQ done. I'd suggest changing the hook though, as the unreleased documentary is perhaps not the most interesting part of Rogan of her father's murder. How about:
- ALT1:
... that after the father of Irish politician Emma Rogan was murdered in a pub (pictured), police conspired with the gunmen to hide their identities?
The Heights Bar
- Comment: here we have an article about a woman who accomplished great things, and all we say is the death of her father? I'm ready to review if you come up with a hook about her. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:35, 1 August 2017 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt: I agree with you in principle, although it largely depends on how one views the point of a hook: to educate about a particular person or thing in and of itself, or to draw people in to read the full article. Especially with Rogan, who has been in office only since June (and for whom the article primarily talks about a) her father, and b) her involvement in seeking justice for his death), ALT1 is far hookier than, say, "... that Irish politician Emma Rogan's initial priorities include protecting services in Downe Hospital?" In parallel, a hook about Bilawal Bhutto Zardari, were it to have been written immediately after he gained political power, would probably have been much more interesting were it to have focused on his mother rather than himself. But please let me know if you disagree and we'll go from there. --Usernameunique (talk) 20:52, 1 August 2017 (UTC)
- It could be phrased in a way that we don't have "the murder of the father of" and then finally her. Something like: ... that she welcomed the documentary ... - letting her be active. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:58, 1 August 2017 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt: Good call. Here are some alternatives:
- ALT2:
... that Irish politician Emma Rogan declared herself "vindicated" when it was reported that police had conspired to protect the gunmen who murdered her father in a pub (pictured)? - ALT3:
... that after her father was murdered in a pub (pictured), Irish politician Emma Rogan campaigned with the Loughinisland Justice Group to uncover their identities? - ALT4:
... that after Irish politician Emma Rogan welcomed the documentary No Stone Unturned about the murder of her father and others in a pub (pictured), its release was delayed due to "ongoing legal issues"?--Usernameunique (talk) 21:17, 1 August 2017 (UTC)
- ALT2:
- @Gerda Arendt: Good call. Here are some alternatives:
- It could be phrased in a way that we don't have "the murder of the father of" and then finally her. Something like: ... that she welcomed the documentary ... - letting her be active. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:58, 1 August 2017 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt: I agree with you in principle, although it largely depends on how one views the point of a hook: to educate about a particular person or thing in and of itself, or to draw people in to read the full article. Especially with Rogan, who has been in office only since June (and for whom the article primarily talks about a) her father, and b) her involvement in seeking justice for his death), ALT1 is far hookier than, say, "... that Irish politician Emma Rogan's initial priorities include protecting services in Downe Hospital?" In parallel, a hook about Bilawal Bhutto Zardari, were it to have been written immediately after he gained political power, would probably have been much more interesting were it to have focused on his mother rather than himself. But please let me know if you disagree and we'll go from there. --Usernameunique (talk) 20:52, 1 August 2017 (UTC)
New reviewer needed, since original review (sans icon) was done by Usernameunique, who has proposed all of the ALT hooks. Also pinging BrownHairedGirl, in case she has strong feelings about any of the ALT hooks, or wishes to propose others. BlueMoonset (talk) 15:57, 14 August 2017 (UTC)
This article is new enough and long enough. I have selected ALT3 as non-controversial and struck the other hooks. The hook facts are cited inline, the article is neutral, and I detected no copyright issues. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:36, 24 August 2017 (UTC)
- Apologies @Cwmhiraeth:, looking at ALT3 again it's missing an object, i.e., "their identities" refers to nothing. Potential corrections below:
- ALT5: "... that after her father was murdered in a pub (pictured), Irish politician Emma Rogan campaigned with the Loughinisland Justice Group to uncover the identities of the gunmen?"
- ALT6: "... that after gunmen murdered her father in a pub (pictured), Irish politician Emma Rogan campaigned with the Loughinisland Justice Group to uncover their identities?"
- Thanks, --Usernameunique (talk) 08:32, 24 August 2017 (UTC)
- Actually, I noticed that earlier but forgot it again before approving the hook. I also forgot to mention that I had added the picture of the pub to the article, and that it is suitably licensed. Both ALT5 and ALT6 are good to go. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 08:39, 24 August 2017 (UTC)