Template:Did you know nominations/Clementia Killewald
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:52, 17 December 2016 (UTC)
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Clementia Killewald
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Eibingen Abbey church
- ... that Clementia Killewald, abbess of Eibingen Abbey (church pictured), spoke about its founder Hildegard of Bingen when she was proclaimed a Doctor of the Church by the pope? newspaper - the speech
- Reviewed: Hairy-breasted barbet
- Comment: today's featured picture
Created by Gerda Arendt (talk). Self-nominated at 17:17, 18 November 2016 (UTC).
Hook is triple-cited two sources that are offline or written in German (AGF). Hook is long enough and I find it to be very interesting. I mean utterly fascinating. The article is new and long enough and free of copyvio. A QPQ has been done and all other criteria have been met. Image is the own work of User:DXR and is cleared for use. GTG. LavaBaron (talk) 04:45, 19 November 2016 (UTC)
Pope and Abbess
- We have now an image that is less spectacular but fits the hook better, hook the same, just "pictured" moved.
- ALT1: ... that Clementia Killewald, abbess of Eibingen Abbey, spoke about its founder Hildegard of Bingen when she was proclaimed a Doctor of the Church by the pope (pictured)? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:30, 19 November 2016 (UTC)
As per Gerda Arendt, this is quite a nice and appropriate - less generic - image. It is license-free, being the work of the contributor and is good to go on that basis. The rest of the review stands as written and the Alt-hook is not substantially different enough to alter that. LavaBaron (talk) 07:08, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt: Both ALT0 and ALT1 use the phrase "she was proclaimed," which I read at first as meaning Killewald was made a Doctor of the Church. In reading the article, I found that it was Hildegard who was made a Doctor of the Church and that this is a title reserved for Saints (which Hildegard was made at the same time). I wonder if the hook needs a tweak to make it clear that "she" is Hildegard? EdChem (talk) 08:24, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
- I would have clarified (a bit clumsily), but thought that "she" comes directly after Hildegard, and that the thought that Killewald was proclaimed a Doctor of the Church (much more exclusive than Saint) was absurd. But as readers may not know how absurd:
- ALT2: ... that Clementia Killewald, abbess of Eibingen Abbey, spoke about its founder Hildegard of Bingen when she was proclaimed a Saint and [even] a Doctor of the Church by the pope (pictured)? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:35, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt:, I think "even" can be removed (up to you), and I've re-named yours as ALT2 for clarity as there was already an ALT1. I admit that the actual meaning of "Doctor of the Church" make my original reading absurd, but I did not know the special significance. I do think it is reasonable to expect people to know that Saints are dead, however, so having included Saint does clarify the "she," IMO. Putting the pictured with the bold link also emphasises she was alive at the time of the ceremony. Perhaps:
- (ALT2a): ...
that Abbess of Eibingen Clementia Killewald (pictured with Pope Benedict XVI) spoke of Abbey-founder Hildegard of Bingen at the ceremony proclaiming her a Saint and Doctor of the Church? - Just a suggestion. To be clear (in a formal sense) I don't consider these tweaks to the hook to alter the nomination as approved, just providing wording options for the promoter. EdChem (talk) 10:52, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
- Thank you for the formatting and the suggestion, but I think it gives the pope too much prominence (mentioned early, and named). The founding should come first, not the pope, imho. People should Clementia, not Benedict ;) - I added "even" because that Doctor title sounds not so special, not like only four women were graced with it so far. - I don't think that simple clarification of an approved fact needs an extra approval, but with DYK, you never know ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:29, 9 December 2016 (UTC)