Template:Did you know nominations/Beverly Loraine Greene
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Allen3 talk 12:55, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
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Beverly Loraine Greene
edit- ... that the memorial service for Beverly L. Greene, believed to be the first African American woman licensed as an architect in the United States, took place in a funeral home that she had designed?
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Ruth Archer
- Comment: For the Women in Red Virtual Editathon on Women in Architecture
Created by SusunW (talk). Nominated by Yoninah (talk) at 23:50, 15 October 2015 (UTC).
The article is new enough, long enough, neutrally written and referenced. Interesting hook and content. A minor suggestion: cause of death (at such an early age) and images of her works may be included. Good to go. --Clithering (talk) 09:52, 18 October 2015 (UTC)
@SusunW: Uh oh. Look what I just found: Beverly Lorraine Greene, created a day after this nomination. These articles must be merged (although I think the present nomination is the better written one). Yoninah (talk) 10:18, 18 October 2015 (UTC)
- Support is withdrawn for the time being pending clarifications from both the creator and the nominator. --Clithering (talk) 16:39, 18 October 2015 (UTC)
- I have no idea how to fix that or what a merge even is. Not even sure how to initiate same. Apparently the creator of the other article was able to do that because they spelled the name wrong? What do we do about it? SusunW (talk) 17:36, 18 October 2015 (UTC)
- No problem, I read WP:MERGEREASON and went ahead and redirected the other article to this page. This page has the correct spelling, and also has far better referencing than the other article. The content was almost identical; therefore, it's considered an obvious duplicate and any editor can be bold and do the redirect. We can go ahead with the DYK now. Yoninah (talk) 17:49, 18 October 2015 (UTC)
- Since the most commonly used name should be used as the article title, please advise "Beverly Loraine Greene" and "Beverly L. Greene", which one should be adopted?--Clithering (talk) 01:34, 19 October 2015 (UTC)
- Sources are about equal in what they call her. Thus, I would say her full name. Women's names don't work like men's names. More often than not, until the 1970s at least in the US, it was considered "impolite and too familiar" to refer to a woman by her given name. It makes finding sources for women really hard. You can always pare down what you know but if you start with a pared down version, it is often difficult to find the entirety and thus sources. I have little doubt that was a consideration in the naming protocols on Wikipedia, because no where does it advise that looking for Mrs. John Doe might help find sourcing. ;) SusunW (talk) 02:14, 19 October 2015 (UTC)
- I was just wondering whether her middle name should be given in full in the hook for the sake of consistency with the article name. Thank you for your detailed explanation and the article is surely good to go now. --Clithering (talk) 03:20, 19 October 2015 (UTC)
- @Clithering: I worked on adding sources, and also wrote the hook. The sources equally refer to her as Beverly Greene and Beverly Loraine Greene. But the hook would go over 200 characters if we spell out her full name. There is really no requirement to spell out a name in a hook; for example, we often write Bach or Mozart, to keep it short. I only put the L. in because SusunW used her middle name in the title. I'm perfectly fine with deleting the initial in the interests of keeping the character count down:
- ALT1: ... that the memorial service for Beverly Greene, "believed to have been the first African American woman licensed as an architect in the United States", took place in a funeral home that she had designed? Yoninah (talk) 09:13, 19 October 2015 (UTC)
- @Clithering: I worked on adding sources, and also wrote the hook. The sources equally refer to her as Beverly Greene and Beverly Loraine Greene. But the hook would go over 200 characters if we spell out her full name. There is really no requirement to spell out a name in a hook; for example, we often write Bach or Mozart, to keep it short. I only put the L. in because SusunW used her middle name in the title. I'm perfectly fine with deleting the initial in the interests of keeping the character count down:
- I was just wondering whether her middle name should be given in full in the hook for the sake of consistency with the article name. Thank you for your detailed explanation and the article is surely good to go now. --Clithering (talk) 03:20, 19 October 2015 (UTC)
- Sources are about equal in what they call her. Thus, I would say her full name. Women's names don't work like men's names. More often than not, until the 1970s at least in the US, it was considered "impolite and too familiar" to refer to a woman by her given name. It makes finding sources for women really hard. You can always pare down what you know but if you start with a pared down version, it is often difficult to find the entirety and thus sources. I have little doubt that was a consideration in the naming protocols on Wikipedia, because no where does it advise that looking for Mrs. John Doe might help find sourcing. ;) SusunW (talk) 02:14, 19 October 2015 (UTC)
Reviewer needed for ALT1. Yoninah (talk) 21:39, 25 October 2015 (UTC)
- Ummm...@Yoninah: and @SusunW:, you need more than ALT1 reviewed. The hook is sourced by the Wilson book, which is also used a total of 8 times as a citation; the majority of the article content is sourced to this book. You need to have page numbers on that. The book is 576 pages long. And when you click on the link provided for the book, it just takes you to the general page from Google books that shows the book's cover. Entering Greene's name on "Search inside" takes you to one page with her name lumped in with others, and another page that has nothing to do with Greene. Can you resolve this, please? — Maile (talk) 01:23, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
- Thanks for looking at this Maile66. She's been in limbo for a while. If you Beverly L. Greene into the search, it takes you right to the page where it talks about her death. The information on the funeral is at the bottom of one page and continues to the next. Earlier information precedes it so you have to scroll backwards. It's weird, but it works for my search. Can't really do anything about it not having page numbers that I know of, but if you know how to fix that, let me know and I'll do it. SusunW (talk) 01:39, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
- It seems to be some kind of e-book. There are no page numbers or table of contents; the biographies are listed in alphabetical order. Yoninah (talk) 01:43, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
- Unfortunately, I'm going to have to pass on helping verify the hook. Thought I could help. SusanW, I tried that source in both Firefox and IE, and doing a search takes me nowhere. Doing an internet search on her didn't help me, either. Sorry I couldn't help, but maybe someone else will come along and have more luck. — Maile (talk) 14:18, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
- It seems to be some kind of e-book. There are no page numbers or table of contents; the biographies are listed in alphabetical order. Yoninah (talk) 01:43, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
- Thanks for looking at this Maile66. She's been in limbo for a while. If you Beverly L. Greene into the search, it takes you right to the page where it talks about her death. The information on the funeral is at the bottom of one page and continues to the next. Earlier information precedes it so you have to scroll backwards. It's weird, but it works for my search. Can't really do anything about it not having page numbers that I know of, but if you know how to fix that, let me know and I'll do it. SusunW (talk) 01:39, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
- @Yoninah: and @SusunW: look alive here! Heads up! Send up the celebratory balloons! I found a library with a Reference Desk hard copy of the Wilson book. I've changed the ISBN number accordingly, and added the pages numbers. Also, since I photocopied the two book pages, it has allowed me to c.e. the article for any places that were a little too close on paraphrasing. I can verify what is in the article is what is in that book. This nomination is good to go with either above hook you pick. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Maile66 (talk • contribs) 20:36, 13 November 2015 (UTC)