Talk:William of Villehardouin

Untitled

I altered the final sentence, which said that French was his 'native' language, because neither this article nor that on his father explains how this fact would be known. If someone knows what language he learned 'at his mother's knee', please revert! Andrew Dalby http://perso.wanadoo.fr/dalby/ 17:31, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Very true. I should have added "paternal language", which is factualy correct, since I do not remember any info for Geoffrey I's wife. The way that you edited it, is also fine with me.--FocalPoint 20:16, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

You guys must be kidding us? You actually have as the last sentence;

"William was also noted as a poet and troubadour, and the Manuscrit du Roi, containing two of his own compositions, was written in Achaea during his reign. He was fluent in both French and Greek."

Just upon what source(s) do you place this remark?

Was "William" a part of the Roman Church? Was he a member of a famous society?

Or was his words later translated?

I am sorry but I did not formally enter my words here! Domage!

But it seems that no one has any vested interest in this personage!

Otherwise, one would seem to recognize that his very name as you and most other historical versions present him,. are far and away rempoved from reality. That is this man or this series of men, is not given the period or place of timne wherin he was "Present" or even in control!

But the real point is the "Place" of his at least most famous "HOLD!" By the very words used to describe this man, as you have done above this site, has called this personage as "William II of VILLEHARDOUIN!" Which means, at the least, that he was origianally from or used the name of this town to his advantage, that we must admit that "William II". at the least, and as the "most" via current histiorical research tends to force the above man into a narror position.

But, perhaps all of the above is mere "mush", and the name "Villhardouin", which automatically means nothi8ng more than the name of a place or posiotion on an new mapl as being the name of a town called "HARDOUIN!", or thus the "town of Hardouin!:"

Can anyone place the city/cit/cit, etc., to any modern place in France or N. Europe, etc.?

Ronald L. Hughes

96.19.156.227 (talk) 02:59, 13 January 2012 (UTC) Regnal titles — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.19.156.227 (talk) 01:35, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you're saying, but Villehardouin is now part of Val-d'Auzon. Adam Bishop (talk) 05:23, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:William of Villehardouin/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Cplakidas (talk · contribs) 07:55, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

Will review this over the following days. Constantine ✍ 07:55, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Lede

• victory near Thebes I assume the Battle of Karydi is meant here? Karydi is not near Thebes though, but a mountain north of Megara, close to Pateras.

• Done (I preferred to say Attica).

• Link Achaean fiefs to Lordship of Argos and Nauplia, a decisive defeat to Battle of Pelagonia, and seized Constantinople to Reconquest of Constantinople

• Done.

Background

• emerged on the western and eastern borderlands of the Byzantine Empire respectively have rephrased this slightly, but for the benefit of our readers, I would suggest a more precise phrasing: 'emerged in western Greece and western Anatolia respectively' or similar.

• I would prefer the present wording. Epirus included Albanian territories as well.

• they reconquered Anatolia not quite accurate, as it implies all of Anatolia, which they definitely did not; and most of the Byzantine territories were not conquered by the Franks either way. I would suggest just leaving it out.

• Done.

• 'triarchs' is not a Hebrew word, in fact it is English.

• Yes, it is clearly not a Hebrew word. I wanted to indicate its Greek origin.

The rest of the article to come later today. Constantine ✍ 07:50, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

Expansion and crusade

• Have made some copyedits for style and clarity.

• Thank you for them.

• The date of the capture of Monemvasia is disputed. I suggest consulting Guillaume Saint-Guillain, The Conquest of Monemvasia by the Franks.

• I explained it in a note.

• Add a link to the Genoese occupation of Rhodes.

• Done.

War of the Euboeote Succession

• Per above, 'triarchs' is an English word and does not need italics. But for consistency I recommend using 'triarch' and 'triarchy' throughout, or the Italian terms.

• Done.

• Since there exists a main article for the topic, much of the information in the second paragraph is redundant or can be summarized.
• Longnon appears to be relying on the 'traditional' narrative according to Hopf. I recommend relying only on Setton. I am in the process of correcting/updating the main article accordingly, including Loenertz as a source.

Defeat and captivity

• the citation needed tag at a source of dubious reliability needs to be resolved

• Done.

• William not only swore fealty to Michael VIII, but also received the high title of megas domestikos. I would recommend consulting Geanakoplos' work on the issue of William's negotiations with the Byzantine emperor.

• I do not have access to Geanakoplos's work.

• @Borsoka: Please check your email. Constantine ✍ 19:30, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

Conflicts with the Byzantines

• Again, for this section at least I would expect to see Geanakoplos used. Lognon as well.

• I do not have access to Geanakoplos's work. Borsoka (talk) 05:56, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

• I assume that William defeated the Greeks at Nikli refers to the Battle of Makryplagi?

Family

• William was also noted as a trouvère ("poet/composer"), and the Manuscrit du Roi, containing two of his own compositions, was written in Achaea during his reign this does not really belong in this section, and requires a reference.

• Done. Borsoka (talk) 06:46, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

That's it for now, will do another read-through when the above points are dealt with. Constantine ✍ 12:56, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for the thorough review and also for your suggestion. I am on holiday now, so I have no access to my library. I can start addressing the issues you raised above in the weekend. Borsoka (talk) 03:02, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

@Borsoka: no worries, take your time and enjoy your vacation! Constantine ✍ 07:40, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

@Cplakidas: sorry, I have not received your email. I am thinking of withdrawing the nomination and complete the article after I seized Geanakoplos's work. It seems to be a book of high quantity and its subjects is within my area of interest. Borsoka (talk) 04:45, 13 July 2022 (UTC)

@Borsoka: I used the email user function, possibly the email is outdated. Please send me a current address on my email. As to the nomination, as you wish, but I have no problem with waiting a bit longer. Constantine ✍ 15:39, 13 July 2022 (UTC)