Talk:Vooruit (political party)

Incorrect title

Okay, the acronym sp.a stands for Social progressive alternative, not for Socialist Party - Different... see official website Just to know...--Lord Snoeckx 18:49, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

I'd like to argue that it does because

1. the [ http://nl.wiki.x.io/wiki/Socialistische_Partij_Anders Dutch wikipedia ] says so . It is managed by Dutch speaking people and Belgians who probably know things better. The article also states: "Een bekende ondertitel van sp.a is Sociaal Progressief Alternatief, wat vaak verward wordt met de betekenis van de afkorting." (Translation: A well known subtitle for sp.a is social progressive alternative, which is often mistaken for the meaning of the acronym.)
2. The sp.a site itsself is rather vague on the issue but what it does read (when discussing its logo) is "De baseline 'sociaal progressief alternatief' behoort integraal tot het logo." (Translation: the baseline social progressive alternative is an integral part of the logo), if it was the name of the party why would they call it a baseline?

I say we return the page to where it was, seeing this evidence. C mon 13:31, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

It's "anders" now, not "alternatief". —Nightstallion (?) 07:30, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

I'd like to point out that I am a Belgian, and member of the sp.a, and we never use 'Socialistische Partij - Anders. That has become obsolete due to recent developments in Belgian politics - don't think that I simply edit anything, I only edit something which I know of it is correct.--Lord Snoeckx 22:01, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Please supply with proof that this is so! I've given two empirical arguments, that it's socialistische partij - Anders. Please give me counterarguments and not hear-say. -- C mon 12:36, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Somewhere around 2000 there were plans to gradually change the name to something that no longer included 'socialist' (this was while Patrick Janssens was president, he found the term "socialistisch" outdated/hard to market). When Stevaert became president of the sp.a, he cancelled this plan. In any case, no party congress has ever voted to replace the name with Sociaal Progressief Alternatief, the statutory name is Socialistische Partij Anders, even though the party almost exclusively uses the abbreviation "sp.a". --jan_k (2006-07-03)

On the sp.a website it says: "Onder het voorzitterschap van Patrick veranderde de partij ook van naam en werd ze sp.a, socialistische partij anders." (Under the presidency of Patrick, the party changed names and became sp.a, socialist party different). cf. http://www.s-p-a.be/nationaal/ideeen/geschiedenis/partijvoorzitters/ --jan_k (2006-07-03)

Dash

I don't understand why a dash is entered between "Progressives" and "Different" in the name. The official Dutch name is without a dash (and without capitalization) : "Daarom zal ook de invulling van de naam sp.a veranderen: in plaats van 'socialistische partij anders', met de baseline 'sociaal progressief alternatief', staat sp.a voortaan voor 'socialisten en progressieven anders', en verdwijnt de baseline." (Een zekere en eerlijke toekomst voor Vlaanderen _{(retrieved 14 Jan 2009, likely to be changed within a couple of days)}.) --Luxem (talk) 21:46, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

better translation of "anders"

"Socialist Party Different" isn't a great translation. As an isolated, literal translation of the word "anders", "different" would be fine, but in this context it fails to preserve that the name is meaningful. I mean, the name makes some sense in Dutch. In English, it's nonsense. And English speaker will wonder why they have a nonsense name, when in fact they don't.

Think of "anders gezegd". That'd usually be better translated as "in other words", or "said differently", or "put differently", but not really "said different".

"Socialist Party - Differently" is the best I can think of. Any better alternatives? Gronky (talk) 17:30, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Absolutely – "Socialist Party Different" is unacceptable. (This is one area where UE goes overboard, in my opinion. Using the Dutch name would be smarter.) But as we must come up with a translation, "Socialist Party Differently" is best. Or else "Socialist Party – Differently" with a dash. Q·L·1968 ☿ 22:40, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

From their website ([1]): "The exact meaning of the ‘a’ is difficult to translate but it could be compared to the renaming of the Labour Party into New Labour.". Oreo Priest ^talk 15:43, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: looks like this move has been done already; seems to have enough support Kotniski (talk) 09:48, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

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Socialist Party – Differently → Socialistische Partij Anders — Proposing move per Wikipedia:Naming conventions (political parties)#Exceptions number 4. This Flemish political party is known in both French and Dutch as Socialistische Partij Anders. City of Destruction 21:02, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

Strong support. It makes no sense the name is in English. All the other Belgian parties are named in their original language on Wikipedia, with the exception of the Parti Socialiste (which should also move). GoldRenet ^thoughts 07:49, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Absolute support. I agree totally Arkangel lucifer (talk) 22:18, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Mild Oppose. The body of English language references for this party is not too deep. However, especially given citations from actual reference works such as Websters and the Financial Times Desk Reference, I believe it would be appropriate to keep the title where it is for now. It appears that this party is called "Socialist Party-Differently" in English by reliable sources, more often than it is called "Socialistische Partij Anders"; WP:Use English applies and overides any local guidelines. To be honest, I think the real intent of Exception #4 is to ensure that our titles are in line with usage. The citations I found, a few of which support the Dutch version, are below.

• Flemish: Webster's Quotations, Facts and Phrases. p113. It's entry for the party reads "The Socialist Party - Differently...(in Dutch: Socialistische Partij Anders) is the Flemish socialist party in Belgium". This is a very explicit support for the translated version.
• Steven Van Hecke, Emmanuel Gerard. Christian democratic parties in Europe since the end of the Cold War p336. Lists both versions in its acronym glossary, although the Dutch version is italicized.
• Ann Lynn Griffiths, Karl Nerenberg. Handbook of federal countries, 2005. Lists "Socialistische Partij Anders ((SPA) Socialist Party Different)"
• Claire Annesley. A political and economic dictionary of Western Europe. 2005. An entry for "Socialistische Partij Anders" redirects the reader to the full entry "Socialist Party-Spirit", a reference to the forerunner of the Socialist Party-Different.
• Chuck Stewart. The Greenwood Encyclopedia of Lgbt Issues Worldwide, Volume 1. 2009. Uses only "Socialistische Partij Anders [SPA]" in text body, has no specific entry on the party.
• John Clements. Clements' encyclopedia of world governments , Volume 16. 2005. Lists both, with "Socialistische Partij Anders" in italics.
• Marshall Cavendish. World and Its Peoples. 2009. Uses only Socialist Party-Different.
• Financial Times world desk reference. 2004. Uses only Socialist Party-Different.

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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Name change

I was reported yesterday that the party's name would change from sp.a to Vooruit. Once its online presence changes, we should move the article. —Brigade Piron (talk) 10:14, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

That will happen in December. 1 MatryoshkaNL (talk) 21:11, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

Why is de name translated? Even the French wiki keeps the original dutch name. English written media mentions "Vooruit" as well... https://www.brusselstimes.com/news/belgium-all-news/161100/flemish-socialist-party-sp-a-changes-name-to-vooruit/ Gualtherus (talk) 12:04, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 19 August 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) ASUKITE 16:48, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

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Forward (Belgium) → Vooruit (political party) – This move raises two separate issues:

1. Vooruit. I can find no serious usage of "Forward" in English in this context. WP:RSUE therefore tells us that "If there are too few reliable English-language sources to constitute an established usage, follow the conventions of the language appropriate to the subject (German for German politicians, Portuguese for Brazilian towns, and so on)."
2. (political party). Vooruit (and therefore "Forward") has been used in a number of notable historical contexts in Belgium and this was explicitly something that the political party considered in its own rebranding. Vooruit, the cultural centre, has similar status and we can discuss which (or either) is the primary usage. Either way, "(Belgium)" is too ambiguous. —Brigade Piron (talk) 15:49, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

@Gualtherus:, who recently expressed views on this subject above. —Brigade Piron (talk) 15:52, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Belgium has been notified of this discussion.  — Shibbolethink ^{(♔ ♕)} 02:07, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Politics has been notified of this discussion.  — Shibbolethink ^{(♔ ♕)} 02:09, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

• Support No evidence the translation is teh wp:commonname—blindlynx (talk) 17:24, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
• Support per nom.--Ortizesp (talk) 05:44, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
• Support I agree with the motivations of the proposer.--Scia Della Cometa (talk) 07:24, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.