Talk:Ufology
Latest comment: 9 months ago by Mcorrlo in topic To be or not to be (science) that is the question
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To be or not to be (science) that is the question
editI would like to have one or more references proving that ufologists consider their ufology to be a science. Of course, there are scientists among ufologists, just as there are scientists among debunkers, but I think it's abusive to consider, without further argument, that ufology is a science, and more, that it considers itself to be one. Where is this written? Who said it? ~~~~ Mcorrlo (talk) 18:19, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
- What you would like and what Wikipedia policy requires are two different things. A statement that 'ufology is generally regarded by skeptics and science educators as an example of pseudoscience' only needs sources concerning the opinions of said skeptics and science educators. AndyTheGrump (talk) 18:28, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
- Good morning, AndyTheGrump. I understand your point of view. But the question remains. Do the so called ufologists consider themselves ufology a science? To be pseudoscience means that on the other side there are people who claim the status of science for ufology. Who are them?
~~~~Mcorrlo (talk) 07:17, 16 January 2024 (UTC)Who are them?
I believe, Mcorrlo, that you might find some answers to this, and your other, questions in references 3 and 4 of the main article. JoJo Anthrax (talk) 13:38, 16 January 2024 (UTC)- Yup, we have sources stating that ufology is presented as science. Not that we need them for the statement that 'skeptics and science educators' consider it pseudoscience. To me, the biggest problem with that statement is its restrictiveness. The Science, Technology and Society source could in fact be cited for ufology being rejected as pseudoscience by mainstream science as a whole. Not just 'skeptics' (though science is built around scepticism) and educators.
- Good morning, AndyTheGrump. I understand your point of view. But the question remains. Do the so called ufologists consider themselves ufology a science? To be pseudoscience means that on the other side there are people who claim the status of science for ufology. Who are them?
- Mcorrlo, you seem to be trying to argue that the sources we cite for ufology being pseudoscience are invalid, based on your own arguments concerning what can or cannot be described as pseudoscience. We don't do that. That isn't our job. The sources analyse. The sources describe. We report what they say. AndyTheGrump (talk) 14:07, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
- Indeed, the sources and the claims exist. We are not vouching for the truth of them, only asserting they are there. That is a fact. WP:Verifiability not WP:Truth. That there are critics doesn't make the purported controversy disappear. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 14:25, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
- Let us be clear, of course I am not "trying to argue that the sources we cite for ufology being pseudoscience are invalid". Of course they are valid, I was just trying to find the other side.
- To me, certainly ufology is not a science, but investigations, reports, some times journalist investigation, and that is the opinion of some so called ufologists.See https://eu.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix-breaking/2019/09/08/international-ufo-congress-holds-annual-conference-downtown-phoenix/2252176001/. And it can be just "fairy tales " for adults.But I think we may not put everything in the same bag. There is a great difference between Adamsky and Hynek for example. Mcorrlo (talk) 07:10, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
- It was a bit difficult, but I found the article and the book for refs 3 and 4. The book is an encyclopaedia, it talks about ufology as a pseudoscience, nothing new. The article is by a professor named Joseph Blake, who nobody knows, and as with source https://eu.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix-breaking/2019/09/08/international-ufo-congress-holds-annual-conference-downtown-phoenix/2252176001/ I can also say, quoting AndyTheGrump "No, you cannot cherry-pick (questionable) sources like this to make vague claims about what 'some' ufologists think." That is just my coment. Mcorrlo (talk) 07:45, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
- Ok, at this point, I think we're done here. The English-language Wikipedia cites articles from The Sociological Review regardless of whether you have heard of the author. If you don't like this, feel free to start your own online encyclopaedia, where ignorance is a valid reason to exclude a source. Policy on sourcing has been explained to you, repeatedly, and it isn't open to negotiation here. AndyTheGrump (talk) 08:15, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
- Well, I hope you are not calling me ignorant...
- I can not cite Hynek, but you can cite Joseph Blake...and please, do not be kind of agressive. Greetings! Yes, as you say, weŕe done here. Mcorrlo (talk) 12:22, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
- Ok, at this point, I think we're done here. The English-language Wikipedia cites articles from The Sociological Review regardless of whether you have heard of the author. If you don't like this, feel free to start your own online encyclopaedia, where ignorance is a valid reason to exclude a source. Policy on sourcing has been explained to you, repeatedly, and it isn't open to negotiation here. AndyTheGrump (talk) 08:15, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
- Mcorrlo, you seem to be trying to argue that the sources we cite for ufology being pseudoscience are invalid, based on your own arguments concerning what can or cannot be described as pseudoscience. We don't do that. That isn't our job. The sources analyse. The sources describe. We report what they say. AndyTheGrump (talk) 14:07, 16 January 2024 (UTC)