Talk:Tintin and I

Removal of "needs infobox" tag

This article has had its infobox tag removed by a cleanup using AWB. Any concerns please leave me a message at my talk page. RWardy 19:38, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Correct grammar of title

Over the years there has been the occasional attempt to try to move (rename) this page from "Tintin and I" to "Tintin and Me", the latter of which is incorrect grammar. (En français, "Tintin et moi" is correct grammar.) Kids say "Billy and me" but when they grow older and speak correctly they say "Billy and I". One rule of thumb is to try removing the "Jeff" from either "Jeff and I" or "Jeff and me" and add "went to the store" and see which works: Is it "I went to the store" or is it "Me went to the store"?

A Wikipedia editor has somewhat recently taken the bold but unfortunate step of moving this page to the literally translated but incorrect grammar title without consensus, stating (with incorrect grammar), "surely a more accurate translation, and the one used the BBC". Surely not; the BBC has translated it incorrectly, but PBS got it right (www.pbs.org/pov/tintinandi) and the subtitles of the actual show got it right (www.youtube.com, go to 3:56). This page has now been moved back to the correct title. If any editor wishes to comment, please do so below. Prhartcom (talk) 13:33, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

Requested move 28 March 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: No consensus, so remain at the same title. The reasoning this article should stay at this article is partly due to the no consensus closure, in that the article should stay at the latest stable title in the event of a no consensus close (I would argue this is the case as it has been this name for 4 years (since 2015 diff)), but also because:

• WP:NCFILM states that If the film has never been widely released in the English-speaking world ... the native name is to be preferred over potentially variant translated titles used in English-language reliable sources., which was used by editors to suggest the french name, however, the film has been released widely over the English speaking world, having been shown on BBC four 1 on four different occasions from 2007 - 2011. Furthermore, there are other English language sources which talk about the film (including 2).
• WP:DIVIDEDUSE states that When there is evenly divided usage and other guidelines do not apply, leave the article name at the latest stable version. If it is unclear whether an article's name has been stable, defer to the name used by the first major contributor after the article ceased to be a stub. Sources tend to use a variety of different names for the film, the BBC uses "Titin and Me", PBS uses "Tintin and I" and Rotten Tomatoes uses "Tintin et moi", but also "Tintin and I" and "Tintin and Me" in brackets afterwards. So I would deduce that there is evenly divided usage. From this, in both cases the article which is the latest stable version and the name of the article when it ceased to be a stub (diff) is "Tintin and I".

So the article should remain here for now. If editor(s) want to reopen discussion, I suggest that they find sources to support a particular name being the WP:COMMONNAME (closed by non-admin page mover) Dreamy Jazz 🎷 ^{talk to me | my contributions} 20:57, 12 April 2019 (UTC)

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Tintin and I → Tintin and Me – I moved this to the proposed title back in 2014 on the grounds that it was surely a more accurate translation, and the one used [by] the BBC. It was moved back by User:Prhartcom in 2015. Prhartcom's rationale seems to be based on the presumption that "and me" is always wrong and "and I" is always right, which is simply not the case. "Tintin and I are the subjects of this film" would be correct, while "Tintin and me are the subjects..." would be incorrect. But on the other hand we have "This film is about Tintin and me"; "This film is about the history of Tintin and me"; "This film depicts the relationship between Tintin and me" — "Tintin and I" would be wrong in each of these sentences.

The links to PBS and YouTube no longer work. In any case, I don't think the translation used in the DVD subtitles should necessarily indicate the correct title for the article. Even otherwise educated native speakers of English often seem to use "and I" when they mean "and me", so it's unsurprising that someone translating from the French might make this error as well. Opera hat (talk) 18:34, 28 March 2019 (UTC) --Relisting. SITH (talk) 20:08, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

• Move to Tintin et moi if there is no stable English title. In ictu oculi (talk) 18:52, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

That is a very sensible suggestion and I'm kicking myself I didn't think of it! Opera hat (talk) 14:41, 29 March 2019 (UTC)

• Move to Tintin et moi as there is clearly no stable English title; good idea, In ictu oculi. —Prhartcom♥ 02:11, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
• Move to Tintin et moi per above and WP:NC-FILM. Both titles have been used in English-speaking countries, but if it can't be determined that one has more common usgae than the other we should then revert to the native title. PC78 (talk) 08:13, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
• Do not move to Tintin et moi, neutral on which of the two English-language titles we use. Per WP:USEENGLISH and WP:NCFILM, we should only use Tintin et moi if it had been released under that title in the English-speaking world. It seems Tintin and I was favoured in the US[1] and Tintin and Me in the UK[2], so one of those should be used. Perhaps ...and Me slightly trumps here as it is the literal translation. --woodensuperman 09:31, 1 April 2019 (UTC)
• Support - WP:NCFILM does not say that we should use the native title if there are multiple English titles. It's pretty clear that if there are English titles, we should use the most common/least surprising one of them and mention the other in the lead. Least surprising would be "Tintin and Me" as it's the literal translation. Safrolic (talk) 03:33, 11 April 2019 (UTC)
• Move to Tintin et moi to resolve the ambiguity, and because it's the most stable name. JIP | Talk 19:57, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

This goes against policy WP:UE and naming conventions WP:USEENGLISH and WP:NCFILM as demonstrated. --woodensuperman 10:42, 12 April 2019 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.