Talk:Shooting of Abby Zwerner

another RS

Here's another article: [1] It mentions some other details a child's parent said her child told her. I'm not sure if those are worth adding, considering the reliability of the statements. --David Tornheim (talk) 04:10, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a newspaper

WP:NOTNP says "there is usually no need to write articles about things with no historical significance whatsoever".

There are over 300 shootings in the US on a typical day. This one's a more compelling story than most, but it will be of zero interest five years, or even five months, from now. For that reason, it doesn't merit its own article, in my opinion.

Stephen Hui (talk) 16:08, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

As the article creator, I disagree as follows:

1. If there are 300 per day, then there are about 20,000 per year. Most don't make the news. This one did. This one is notable.
2. What is especially notable about this one is that that shooter was 6 years old. That is exceptional, and noteworthy.
3. This article very clearly meets the requirements of WP:GNG.

If you disagree, you are welcome to nominate this for deletion at WP:AFD where I am most confident that you can expect confirmation that this topic absolutely merits an article. CT55555(talk) 16:13, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

• I agree with CT55555. There is plenty of WP:RS to support the subject's notability--especially that it is a 6-year-old. --David Tornheim (talk) 20:54, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
• Agree that the topic is notable due to this being an intentional school shooting by a 6-year-old, which is reported to be extremely rare. According to an expert interviewed by the AP, since 1970 he is aware of only one other such case involving a 6-year-old, which would be the killing of Kayla Rolland. TheBlinkster (talk) 06:51, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
• Agree. The topic poster is completely ignoring the fact that this is a six-year-old shooter, which—as the article mentions— brings up questions of age and moral responsibility, as well as pointing out the ubiquity of guns in the U.S. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 135.180.193.96 (talk) 21:34, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

Thus spake SCOTUS.

> American Federation of Teachers president Randi Weingarten called for government action to prevent guns from being taken into schools

That sentence in the article seems to exist in a vacuum? I mean there was a famously bizarre SCOTUS verdict circa 1999 which declared that banning firearms from US schools amounts to an unconstitutional restriction of Inter-State Commerce Clause and so sent the Clinton administation home. I remember reading about it on BBC web but can't find the article now. The journos tried to explain the logic behind judges' majority opinion but it was impossible for me to follow as a continental european. 94.21.237.197 (talk) 17:39, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

I"m not certain what you are proposing. This article should capture what how people responded to the shooting, but not attempt to document the full scope of gun control discourse in the US. CT55555(talk) 19:51, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

In addition to your proposal being unclear, the SCOTUS opinion to which you refer is not "famously bizarre" in view of the history of US Commerce Clause jurisprudence. The Commerce Clause was being used as the basis for wide-ranging interference by the federal government into legal areas traditionally regarded as being under state control, and SCOTUS chose to restrict that - it's basic first-year US constitutional law class material. It also has nothing to do with this Abby Zwerner case so I don't know why you are even bringing it up. This isn't an article about the history of gun control in US schools. TheBlinkster (talk) 07:06, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

New info: teacher texted someone about lax administration

I don't know how to cite sources on Wikipedia, else I'd do it, but this new damning information came out.

https://nypost.com/2023/01/25/teacher-abigail-zwerner-shot-by-6-year-old-knew-student-had-gun/

Administration knew about the gun but told the teacher that since the school day was almost over, they didn't want to bother dealing with it. 135.180.193.96 (talk) 21:31, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

WP:NYPOST is considered an unreliable source, so we cannot use that. CT55555(talk) 20:18, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

The teacher has also sued the school district because of this. Don't have a source handy, but it was mentioned on NPR. Kirby777 (talk) 20:16, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

Students and metal detectors at Richneck Elementary School.

The BBC news article cited states the following: "Officials said that while the school - which has about 550 pupils - had metal detectors, pupils were checked at random and not every child was inspected." 71.113.2.188 (talk) 21:46, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

Gender of alleged shooter

I reverted the removal of the alleged shooters gender, as it is widely reported. e.g. https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/19/us/virginia-school-shooting/index.html

If anyone thinks the alleged attacker's gender is not clear, please say. CT55555(talk) 20:58, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Include name of shooter's mother?

She's been named in multiple RS, beginning as early as April, help me understand why not in this article. Xan747 (talk) 23:54, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

Would you say her name is widely disseminated? (Which is the test at WP:BLPNAME). CT55555(talk) 00:57, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

Yes. She's been named by USA Today, NY Times, NY Post, CBS, Washington Post, Huffington Post, NBC, ABC, MSN, The Daily Beast, The Guardian, Fox, and CNN. Xan747 (talk) 02:56, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

Unless anyone raises any reasons not to name her, maybe we can. CT55555(talk) 04:43, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

Revealing her name could be a breach of WP:BLPCRIME as she is not a public figure. WWGB (talk) 05:50, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

@WWGB, in the RfC about whether to name Jordan Neely's killer, you wrote, "If Penny is charged, his name will be published around the world, and he will certainly pass the 'public figure' test." The shooter's mother in this case may not have received international attention, but clearly more than a single mention in a local paper. Note this is more about me trying to learn the ropes than anything, so perhaps this is not the place to be having this discussion? Xan747 (talk) 20:11, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

Why do they hide the name of the shooter?

A 6 year old kid, is able to carry, load and aim a gun on a premeditation!! The only reason they are hiding his name, because he is black and the teacher is German. This is a motivated murder clearly. 2001:8F8:1137:9C05:B45F:88FE:8FAB:3A51 (talk) 19:52, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

Dude, literally no child is ever named, ever, regardless of race (regardless also of racism being so blinding someone can't even see it's not murder). If anyone should be named and blamed it's the NRA! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.151.142.97 (talk) 23:54, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

As nobody died, so it's obviously not a murder. I see that reliable sources did name the kids mother, so we can add that in and I'll probably do so myself shortly if nobody beats me to it, but I did delete an edit where someone added it in without a citation. We need to cite things. I didn't see any reliable sources name the kid, so if you saw any, please link them here.

I don't think anyone's race or nationality has anything to do with this. And I think the teacher is American. CT55555(talk) 19:55, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

She has state charges against her that haven't yet been resolved, so even though she plead guilty to federal charges, we might still want to keep her name out of it per blpcrime. Xan747 ✈️ 🧑‍✈️ 19:58, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

Just like mentioning that he was a boy is an identifier, his race is also very much an important identifier. It points to issues with a specific demographic that should perhaps be addressed. 5.36.68.23 (talk) 20:56, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

If reliable sources start focussing on his race, then we can. If they don't, we can't. Wikipedia follows what reliable sources do. Our individual opinions on what is important don't matter much. CT55555(talk) 21:10, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

@CT55555, the shooter's mother granted an on-camera interview in which she takes responsibility for her son's actions. Since she apparently feels it's in her best interests to identify herself and discuss the case in public, I no longer see any reason why we should suppress her name.

If you haven't already seen it, the other news is that according to recently unsealed court documents, while still at the scene the shooter said, "I did it. I shot that bitch dead. I got my mom's gun last night." I think it's due to include because of the animus it shows, but due to it being potentially controversial I think it should be discussed first. Xan747 ✈️ 🧑‍✈️ 15:58, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

I support adding the mother's name - reliable sources do so. I have not seen any argument that justify adding the child's name. My earlier deletion of the mother's name was because it was uncited. I quickly reverted that. CT55555(talk) 16:22, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

And I think that George Floyd was not a n x-inmate, rather he was a (patriot), only the Chauvin was the bad guy?! Specially it was an election year. 2001:8F8:1137:9C05:212E:A99F:29F1:B0C3 (talk) 15:49, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

This is not the place for wp:soapboxing. Xan747 ✈️ 🧑‍✈️ 15:57, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

You are off topic. This is a talk page to discuss editing the article Shooting of Abby Zwerner CT55555(talk) 16:22, 10 August 2023 (UTC)