Talk:Second generation of video game consoles

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GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Second generation of video game consoles/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Namcokid47 (talk · contribs) 15:28, 3 August 2019 (UTC)

This one has been sitting in the nominations list for a while, so I'll take a look at it. It's rather long so it might take me a little bit, but I'll promise to have it done in like the next day or two (maybe earlier). Namcokid47 (talk) 15:28, 3 August 2019 (UTC)

After looking at the article, I don't feel like it's up to snuff to pass as a GA at the moment. The writing seems good, as do the pictures, but the references need a lot of work before it can pass.

1. Refs 1, 3, 4, 16, 20, 44, 45, 67, 68, 69, 74, 75, 88, 89 and 100 do not look reliable

   • Removed and replaced with other sources  Done CrimsonFox ^talk 13:31, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

2. Many of these are missing authors or dates. Ref 96 is a good example. -Warshaw, "Core Memory"- what is this? A book? A news article?

   • I think I've filled in everything that I can.  Done CrimsonFox ^talk 13:31, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

3. All instances of "www.gamasutra.com" should be changed to Gamasutra, as that's their actual name

   •  Done CrimsonFox ^talk 13:31, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

4. Refs 79, 80, 82, 83 and 84 are all duplicates of each other, this needs to be fixed

   •  Done CrimsonFox ^talk 13:31, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

5. Ref 31 needs a date and author (if possible)

   • Replaced with different ref  Done CrimsonFox ^talk 13:31, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

6. Many of the refs are missing retrieval dates

   • I was under the impression for sources such as books, magazines etc, you didn't need retrieval dates. It was more for websites? Could you clarify please? CrimsonFox ^talk 13:31, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
   • Yeah, I was referring to website. Sorry for not clarifying.

7. I'd also personally archive all the links for the sake of thoroughness, but it's not required for a GA.

   • Run the IABot on the page. Found a few dead links as well which have been fixed  Done CrimsonFox ^talk 13:31, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

Once all of these are fixed, ping me and I'll take another look. Namcokid47 (talk) 23:55, 4 August 2019 (UTC)

User:Namcokid47 Need some clarification on point 5 but the above is done. CrimsonFox ^talk 13:31, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

Okay, I think this looks good. Promoting it now. Namcokid47 (talk) 15:00, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

Are Colecovision and Atari 5200 really second gen?

They seem like a pretty significant graphical jump to me TheBrodsterBoy (talk) 07:12, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

Short answer: Yes.

Long answer: No, not really. Analysts at the time pegged them as the next generation, and they clearly are based on both specs and performance. The current generation system was devised within the last decade or so by people who had little knowledge of these early consoles and did not really care to complicate matters. Because of the crash cutting short the lifespan of the 5200 and ColecoVision, the whole generation thing does not account for them well. But the reliable sources have gone this silly route, so we are stuck with it for now. Indrian (talk) 07:25, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

Can we Atleast denote it in the article or something? Call them 2.5 Generation or Lost Generation or something? Maybe toss in the SG-1000 in that pile too 2604:3D09:1F80:CA00:1886:9B02:F758:4E7B (talk) 07:33, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

We shouldn't be inventing terms for generations at this point. Of course, if there's sourced debate about how these don't fit in, we can include that. Masem (t) 02:56, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

Oh there’s plenty of that 2604:3D09:1F80:CA00:4C87:D57F:9A96:3BBE (talk) 05:38, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Almost two decades ago now. -- ferret (talk) 02:54, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

The 1992 debacle

This confused me the first time reading this article. By this logic the second generation overlaps the third. Generation is defined as when a console is released. Not by it’s shelf life UltimateGamer9000 (talk) 18:42, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

We define them from first introduction to final discontinuation. Generations do overlap. The second generation is one of the more severe but it happens in other places as well, including the current 8th and 9th generations. -- ferret (talk) 18:45, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

I feel like for the sake of confusion we could have it list 1982 on the main page with a note in the wikitext that the Atari was on shelf until 1992. UltimateGamer9000 (talk) 18:55, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

But that's not what we denote, here or on multiple other articles about the console generations. Consistency across the articles is necessary, and the note is there to educate people who do not understand the definition in use. -- ferret (talk) 19:15, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

What say we compromise? The third generation page lists the end of the third generation with the emergence of 16 bit consoles, but it also makes note that the last 8-bit were commercially available until 2003. UltimateGamer9000 (talk) 21:50, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

Given that this content is supported by a citation to the book Racing the Beam and coauthors of the book Nick Montfort and Ian Bogost seem to be established content experts with respect to videogame stuff, the 1992 seems to be valid at least for Wikipedia purposes. Of course, other reliable sources or content experts might disagree, but that would need to be clearly established; any interpretations or opinions we have as readers are nothing more than WP:OR if they can't be supported by citing a reliable source. One way this content could be changed would be to provide direct attribution to Montfort and Bogost as having stated 1992 is the date in their book; that might only be necessary, however, if other reliable sources state a different date. Another way to clarify things would be to move the citation to the first mention of 1992 per MOS:CITELEAD and WP:REFNAME so that it doesn't first appear at the very end of the lead section. -- Marchjuly (talk) 21:53, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

The third generation article is consistent with this one. The end of the third generation was marked by the emergence of 16-bit systems of the fourth generation and with the discontinuation of the Famicom on September 25, 2003. It says the end was marked by the emergence of 16-bit systems and with the discontinuation of the Famicom in 2003. All of our generation articles follow this same format, and the second generation is not an exception. -- ferret (talk) 21:59, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

It’s not consistent. The third generation only lists the beginning date in the opening paragraph and only later does the 4th generation and 2003 discontinuation come up. I’m not saying change any info on here but I think we can find a way to format it in a more cohesive manner. We’ve been dancing this dance for 3 years now. UltimateGamer9000 (talk) 22:56, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

No, you've been editing against an established project consensus for 3 years. We're not dancing anything. You just need to accept that Wikipedia measures it in a way you don't like. You understand that it's easy enough to piece together your editing history on various IPs right? You're still blocked on multiple IPs from this page, and block evasion can lead to your account being blocked as well. I suggest you move on from this. -- ferret (talk) 22:58, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

Could we make a Second and a Half Generation/Lost Generation of Gaming Consoles article

For the Colecovision, Atari 5200, SG-1000. and Vectrex?

The general consensus among hardcore retro gaming historians seems to be these are distinct from the second/third generation, but were cut short due to the crash and kinda missed with the generations system was popularized in the late 2000s. Fully 'fixing' the mistake and re-numbering things would be a massive nightmare which is why it's never been done, so couldn't we just make a half number or at least a 'Lost Generation' page to talk about them and their differences in detail? 2604:3D09:1F80:CA00:887C:3028:54D8:1509 (talk) 04:23, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

As an owner of a Colecovision and Vectrex (and someone who first-hand experienced the second generation through to the seventh, as they came out) they do seem out of place in the second generation. You have a time-split for one thing: the mid to late 70's consoles, then the early to mid 80's consoles. It's a long enough time gap for the latter to be a new generation. And the Colecovision seems like the missing link between the 2600 and NES. The Vectrex, on the other hand, seems far ahead of its time, more advanced than some of the third generation consoles.

At least the table is split into two distinct halves, releases by decade. It kind of hints that there is a notable difference from one table to the next. I think though, it comes down to the fact the video game crash of 1983 brought everything to a screeching halt and caused this just-starting-to-develop (and lost) initial "third generation" to get scuttled. In essence, what we know as the official third generation was a take-two, a rebuild of things from the ground up. In essence the real third gen was killed almost immediately after it was born, so a new third gen replaced it several years later, in the late 80s. From my own perspective of the time, I remember the 2600 was a huge thing in the early 80's. I don't remember much of the Colecovision and Vectrex....just seeing them briefly in stores (the Vectrex really grabbed my attention!) and almost as soon as they appeared, they disappeared (the 5200 never even made it up here to Canada! Ditto for the SG-1000 obviously). And then "video game console" for TV hook-ups became as passe a thing as Cabbage Patch dolls, or Pet Rocks. Home computers were the new defacto rage for video gaming, and it stayed that way until about 1988 when this thing called "Nintendo" became all the rage and even a house-hold name. Video game consoles were back! (I do remember seeing the NES in stores in 86-87, but it was more obscure then. I didn't know what to make of it, I thought it was a toy-thing with the Rob the Robot accessory and the Mattel logo on the box. I don't think the NES had its killer app/game yet? Or at least not more than one).

Bottom line, we cannot call it the "third generation" because it never had the chance to live long enough to be that. Calling it generation 2.5 wouldn't work either, I mean if you look the Wii U and Nintendo Switch, they both fall into the same 8th generation, odd as it is, but that is what it is (even though it would be easier to call the Switch the 8.5th generation, but we don't). I could possibly see it as a lost generation, perhaps. Though in my mind and through my own childhood experience of the time, the Intellivision, Colecovision, Vectrex and 2600 were all grouped together because of the way things unfortunately transpired, so it makes some sense seeing them all as the second generation.--Apple2gs (talk) 07:01, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

So we make a Lost Generation of Video Game Consoles page for Colecovisoon, Vextrex, Atari 5200, and Sg-1000? 2604:3D09:1F80:CA00:D1BC:72A2:A312:5E6E (talk) 23:54, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

No, because there's no sourcing to support such. -- ferret (talk) 01:11, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

2604:3D09:1F80:CA00:C920:FCD:9FA7:4129 (talk) 05:00, 20 November 2023 (UTC) https://web.archive.org/web/20140129024040/http://revrob.com/sci-a-tech-topmenu-52/233-why-the-second-generation-of-video-game-consoles-is-really-two-distinct-and-separate-generations

We need reliable sources such as those listed in WP:VG/S. Masem (t) 05:02, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

What?

This line goes: "Some developers collapsed and almost no new games were released in 1984" Yet, you go to this page on here: https://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Category:1984_video_games and you see over 300! So, "almost no" definitely makes no sense. 2600:1702:3520:2210:AC9D:1CCC:63A6:842C (talk) 13:26, 31 October 2023 (UTC)