Talk:Pokémon Red, Blue, and Yellow/Archive 4

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Archive 4

Archive 5

Archived

I created three archives from all that. Paper Luigi ^{Talk • Contributions} 17:20, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

US version reprogramming info

Shouldn't the article contain some information on how the US versions of the game (Red and Blue) had to actually be reprogrammed from scratch, since after being in development for over 10 years the original code was too fragile to merely translate? This reprogramming of the game also became Japan's Blue Version, in addition to our Red and Blue version. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.163.233.190 (talk) 07:07, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Interesting, I have never heard of that. If you can find any reliable sources, I will gladly add it to the article. Artichoker[talk] 20:23, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

In a 2005 book entitled "Power Up: How Japanese Video Games Gave the World an Extra Life" by Chris Kohler, he wrote an entire chapter on Pokémon and mentions in a paragraph that Red & Blue(Green) were reprogrammed from the ground up. What info (besides the exact wording of said paragraph) do you need for a source? --Sesu Prime (talk) 17:16, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

That book would be a good one. If you have it, I would appreciate it if you sourced the article. Artichoker^[talk] 17:44, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Sorry it took so long for me to get back to this (I'm still very new to Wikipedia). Where should this reprogramming info go? My suggestion is the end of the Development section.

By the way, my source (the "Power-Up" book) says Red & Green were in development for "nearly six years," not 10+. In addition, "Power-Up" doesn't say anything about the reprogrammed US version also becoming the Japanese Blue (I don't doubt this is true, but I don't have a reference for that part). Sesu Prime (talk) 09:05, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Yeah the end of the development section would be the best place. Also, if the book says 6 years, you should correct the article and source it. Cheers, Artichoker^[talk] 19:58, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Merging the regions

I've linked the other two regions to this one to make this easier. The regions themselves do not need articles. Anything relevant can be merged, while the lists of locations can just be removed. TTN (talk) 18:45, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

I would be OK with the merge. And by merge I mean just making the region articles redirects to Pokémon regions. The games already adequately describe each region. Artichoker[talk] 20:12, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

I strongly support this merge. Pokémon regions will probably do a better job of meeting Wikipedia policies and guidelines than several lengthy articles for several different regions. Perhaps in a further or later discussion, we can decide if that article would be better merged into another article or what not. Randomran (talk) 21:35, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Whether we merge or not, this is not an appropriate target. Kanto is important to a wide variety of mediums, including the games, the animes, and the mangas. - A Link to the Past (talk) 19:44, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I concede that this might not be the appropriate merge target. Pokémon regions is probably a better target, and seems to have more support. Randomran (talk) 16:23, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

The main problem there is that the regions article really has no potential at all. If it is really necessary to cover it in a wider scope, a setting section in the main article describing the overall world would probably be the best bet. TTN (talk) 17:44, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

This article covers its region adequately enough, so a merge here would not be correct. Artichoker[talk] 20:15, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

It doesn't matter. If the regions article is wrong, at what point does this article become an appropriate merge target. - A Link to the Past (talk) 21:42, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

It's currently the only article with any sort of place for it. As I said, if someone wants to add a setting section to the main Pokemon article or somewhere else, that'd be fine also. TTN (talk) 21:45, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, the manga and anime have no place for it at all. Whoops, my bad, they actually have a perfect place - on their articles. Basically, anything not relevant to the video games about Kanto cannot be mentioned, to the point where no matter how notable it is, it would be off-topic in the article. Kanto is not exclusive to the games, and anyone who even suggests that is crazy. Kanto appears in multiple games, extensively appears in the anime, and extensively appears in the manga. At no point is R/B even the most notable appearance of Kanto. - A Link to the Past (talk) 23:01, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

I didn't realize that this was a heated argument. Do whatever you want with it. I just figured that this is the original appearance of it, and that the anime, while a large part is based off of the fist generation, is split between so many regions that there is really no place for it there. There really isn't much content to merge anywhere either way, so it shouldn't really matter that much. TTN (talk) 23:17, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

I support the merge. Ideally we`d have an article for each region but I suppose that is against Wikipedia`s policy so it cannot be helped. There is a rough correspondence between each region and each version of the game (this if we ignore the fact a changed Kantou appears in the metal series games. Because the Gold/Silver article already covers those changes, it`s okay, though.) why not merge? -- Ishikawa Minoru (talk) 11:56, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Rather than merge, just remove the information completely. This article already covers Kanto sufficiently. Artichoker[talk] 22:31, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Kanto is relevant to more than just this game. - A Link to the Past (talk) 06:14, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

I agree. Aside from Red and Blue, Kanto also appears in Yellow, Gold, Silver, Crystal, FireRed, and LeafGreen. I strongly discourage the merge. Tezkag72 (talk) 13:41, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Against. In my opinion Kanto (and other major regions) have enough content to have their own pages. At least if the merge for some reason occurs, there is no meaning in merging Kanto with Red & Blue - as stated in the previous comment, Kanto appears in a variety of Pokémon games. It should then be merged with Pokémon regions instead. UltimateSephiroth (talk) 20:39, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Also against. Tezkag72 (talk) 01:16, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Against While Kanto does appear in red and blue, it is also present many other game in the pokemon world, not to mention the television show! Firebat08 (talk) 23:01, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Regions have been merged. I am removing the tags on all game articles. Artichoker[talk] 15:42, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Question

Could someone please verify this edit? Apteva (talk) 20:35, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

The edits made by that anon are incorrect. I have reverted them. Artichoker[talk] 22:23, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Merging Pokémon FireRed and LeafGreen

If the current content of FR and LG is trimmed and neatened, it should fit here pretty easily. I don't really know if it has any kind of potential in the area of development information, but the reception should also fit here. It would help to strengthen this article as much as possible for whenever there is a final FA push. TTN (talk) 16:00, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

I think merging would make the article would make it too long, unless a lot was cut out, and I don't want to lose much information. Useight (talk) 16:09, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

This article is under 30kb, so completely merging that article as it is now would only leave this at 40kb. That is perfectly fine for an article. FR and LG can be cut down by quite a bit, though, so it should be way less than that. TTN (talk) 16:15, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

I completely disagree with this merge. FireRed and LeafGreen are notable enough to warrant their own article. Although they are technically remakes of Red and Blue, they quite dissimilar from the other remakes of the Pokémon games. They were released five years later and feature a completely different gameplay engine, with major added game features (e.g. Sevii Islands) and more plot. It will also have a significantly different development section. The reason for merging Yellow, Crystal, and Emerald was because if they stayed as separate articles too much information would be repeated from their parent articles. This is certainly not the case with FireRed and LeafGreen. I was indeed planning to work on the Pokémon FireRed and LeafGreen article when I had a chance to improve it to GA status, which will not be hard. A merge is entirely unnecessary. Artichoker[talk] 16:38, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Against. I wonder why you are merging articles about things that should definitely have their own articles. Red and Blue are the base of FireRed and LeafGreen but that makes no difference. If these articles must be merged, what's the point for example to have a separate article for every expansion pack of The Sims? They do add a certain level of content and stuff, but otherwise it's the same game. I must say that I'd be also against the merging of those expansion packs, because I think that a subject must have its own article, nobody likes long collection articles. UltimateSephiroth (talk) 16:29, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Yeh not a good idea to merge. while they may be remakes, theres is a lot of stuff different to the originals and in my opinion if you merge it would make this article to long or miss out important info about FR & LG. Salavat (talk) 03:14, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

• Against merge. These are totally different games. Only thing was they were the same league, Kanto. That's it. Thriller 25 and Thriller (album) aren't merged. Tezkag72 (talk) 01:55, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

It's been ten days and I don't see much of a consensus to merge, so I am removing the tag. Artichoker[talk] 14:52, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

I believe a strong push to GA should be done for FR/LG. If determined that it can't quite make it, then I believe a merge may be in order. - A Link to the Past (talk) 19:55, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Though as it stands, neither article is very big - I don't think RB can be featured in its current state. - A Link to the Past (talk) 19:57, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

I will be attempting a push to GA for FR/LG shortly. And no, R/B can't become FA in its current state, but once I add more analysis from published sources it can. Merging FR/LG to R/B won't make much of a difference on whether it passes FA, so I would rather have it as a separate article for the reasons I outlined above. Artichoker[talk] 23:15, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Sources, print or otherwise (on legacy of the games)

I was browsing the FAC, and the reviewers seemed to oppose on the grounds that the "Legacy" section was inadequate for the ground-breaking games that Red and Blue were. If the editors haven't yet, I would recommend Google Books in looking for print sources. I found it to be comprehensive, and you can browse through entire books. (Usually, though, you don't get to view every page; there might be a few pages restricted.) Also Google News, probably best to specify from 1996-early 2000s in the search. (Some sources, like some articles in major newspapers, might require paid access [mostly the L.A. Times], but...)

Just my two cents. Best of luck! Ink Runner (talk) 05:02, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for that. Yeah I found some good print sources, but right now I'm taking a short break from this article. I'll probably be back to it in the near future. Again thanks for your help! Artichoker[talk] 15:49, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

150 Pokémon

I changed the number from 151 to 150: "...it is necessary for players to trade among the two in order to obtain all 150 Pokémon."

Indeed there are 151 Pokémon available, but Mew cannot be caught in the Red/Blue (only in the Japanese version I believe, as a reward), so while you have both games, you can only catch 150 Pokémon, and when you have everyone in the game will tell you that you have caught all of them. - Jetro (talk) 11:50, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Actually, you can catch Mew on the European and US versions of Red/Blue by using a glitch (which I have), I'm not sure if that counts though. --TheLeftorium 12:35, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I know about that glitch. It is programmed in, of course, but you cannot catch it "naturally"... - Jetro (talk) 13:01, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

The point is not that Mew cannot be caught legitly. I believe you misread what was intended. In order to obtain all 151 Pokémon, you will need to trade. And that statement is correct. You will need to trade to get all the Pokémon. So I'm changing it back. Artichoker[talk] 18:17, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Mew cannot be caught irregardless whether you trade or not. As far as I know various people will tell you that there are exactly 150 Pokémon in the game, and you will get a diploma when you have caught "all" of them. Mew is programmed in the game, but cannot be caught. However you can get to it via events and so forth, so I guess it counts then. - Jetro (talk) 22:55, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Yes I know that Mew cannot be caught. That's not the point. The article is simply stating the maximum number of possible Pokémon, which happens to be 151. And in order to obtain all 151, you will need to do some trading, not necessarily for Mew. Artichoker^[talk] 23:02, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

I see, sorry about casuing trouble. - Jetro (talk) 00:03, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

No trouble caused my man. Also sorry about my first post if it sounded slightly bitter, I was just in a slightly sour mood at that time. Artichoker^[talk] 01:21, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Rename/move article

I propose renaming the article Pokémon Red and Blue versions or Pokémon Red and Blue Versions. More discussion has occured here. SharkD (talk) 01:45, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Kanto

The lede says the "region of Kanto" in the game is fictional. I'm pretty sure there is a real Region of Kanto that is a Japanese gov't entity. So the lede should be making clear that any portrayal of a "Kanto" in Pokemon is fictionalized, not purely fictional. 72.0.187.239 (talk) 07:32, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Missingno

"When encountered, it appears as a group of scattered pixels and may often cause the games to malfunction, including scrambling the graphics or even corrupting the save data." This is a common misconception. MissingNo. actually does NOT corrupt the save data of any version of the Pokemon games, while this is true for several other glitch Pokemon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.189.14.2 (talk) 00:48, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

From my experience, I recall that it does; but even more importantly, the source says it does. Artichoker^[talk] 02:02, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

I've looked over that citation and nowhere on there does it say that MissingNo. deletes/corrupts save data. Even if it did, it's common knowledge that MissingNo. does not to that. An actual serious look at the programming for Red/Blue reveals that this simply is not possible. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.243.201.210 (talk) 05:02, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

It says it scrambles the graphics: that is corrupting the save data. Artichoker^[talk] 11:57, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

The source does say that in some cases, the only way to fix the graphics is to re-start your game (erase your file). This is corruption of the save data. -Sesu Prime (talk) 05:37, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Scrambling graphics does not constitute "corruption of save data". Only if MissingNo. in some way caused the game to save without your express attempt at doing so, or by deleting your save file without you doing so yourself would there be a "corruption of save data".

And Sesu, you re-starting your own game is you corrupting your save data, not MissingNo. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.243.201.210 (talk) 01:16, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

Permanently scrambling the graphics is pretty much corrupting the save data. That's all there is to it. Artichoker^[talk] 01:34, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

Okay, corruption of the save data means that even when you turn the game off and back on, the problem (scrambled graphics, etc.) is still present. The source says this may happen, so in other words, the source says MissingNo. can corrupt save data. -Sesu Prime (talk) 06:23, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

You're mistaken. That is not corrupting save data. And the graphics go back to normal after a time, which therefore makes that effect not permanent. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.243.201.210 (talk) 11:31, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

Okay, then tell us why that is not corrupting the save data, because it really sounds like it is. Also, it is permanent. For instance, the Hall of Fame will be forever glitched. Artichoker^[talk] 18:04, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

It is not corruption of save data because save data is the name used to describe a save file which can be saved over, or changed. This is something that can only be affected by you, the player, or outside influences such as a damaged or old battery that cannot hold a save any longer.

There are also cases where certain glitch Pokemon (not MissingNo.) can affect the save data by deleting it. Other instances of factors that influence save data (other than the player) is linking up with an incompatible language-version, or attempting glitches like "clone Pokemon." These all affect save data by changing the save file (IE, deleting it or rendering future saving impossible) without the player's consent.

Now, what MissingNo. does is manipulate the number of items in the sixth item slot of your bag. He also scrambles the in-game graphics; that part is true. But neither of these will occur if you shut your game off and restart it without saving. If you do this, you will resume gameplay at your last save before MissingNo. was encountered, and thus will not experience either of those effects. These would only be considered corruption of save data if the game saved due to encountering MissingNo., your save file was deleted, or you lost the ability to save further. None of these occur, so neither can be considered corruption of save data.

Finally, your claim that MissingNo. corrupts save data by scrambling the graphics is not valid under the previous argument. Though a problem, it has nothing to do with save data and is not permanent. This is quite obviously proven by our sole citation, which states: "To fix the scrambled graphics, try releasing the MissingNO Pokémon." Obviously Nintendo doesn't believe MissingNo. causes permanent graphic damage, and any statement otherwise would fall under original research. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.243.201.210 (talk) 03:18, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

If you do choose to save your game after capturing Missingno., then your graphics will be permanently scrambled, hence why the article says 'may'. Also Nintendo states that one can 'try' releasing Missingno., but sometimes even that won't fully fix the problems, and indeed it doesn't: if one captures Missingno., saves, and then releases the creature, the graphics for the Hall of Fame will still be scrambled. Artichoker^[talk] 15:45, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

You're grasping at straws, Artichoker. It's quite obvious that you're trying to shift your argument from what we're really discussing (that of MissingNo. corrupting save data) to scrambling of graphics, which is an entirely different subject that has nothing to do with corruption of save data.

Your response is riddled with holes that only serve in proving my point. For example, you say that "If you do choose to save your game... then your graphics will be permanently scrambled." Well, I defined save data earlier and it is something only you the player are meant to alter, therefore you saving it would never count as save data corruption.

Also, whether or not the graphics are permanently scrambled would only be affected by your choice to save, as none of MissingNo.'s effects occur if you simply don't save, nor do any of theme trigger one of the three save-related instances of save data corruption.

Finally, Nintendo is offering a valid point: "To fix the scrambled graphics, try releasing the MissingNo Pokémon." Nintendo is giving us a solution to fix the scrambled graphics, and if there were no solution they wouldn't have offered one.

Your suggestion that the graphics remain permanently scrambled goes against this statement, in a crude means to nitpick the very wording to find some way to prove your point. That's not what we do here. What we do is take a citation from an official source and state it. We don't find "hidden meanings" and other things to express our personal opinions. That is original research. I see that you are also misquoting the citation by including 'may', which is only seen under the article "1. Game Keeps Erasing". This seems to suggest that you're trying to make a connection between two unrelated articles to twist the citation into your view.

Now, I feel this discussion has gone on for too long. I'm going to edit the article and remove the claim in question if you can't come up with a reasonable explanation why it should remain the same.

If you save the game, it would count as data corruption, because the graphics are scrambled. And scrambled graphics is a form of data corruption. This is what I have been saying over and over again, but you're just going in circles around the point.

• The player captures Missingno. which causes the graphics to become scrambled → this is data corruption.
• The player saves the game.
• The data corruption caused by Missingno. permanently persists.

That's what I am saying, and it perfectly falls in line with the text of the article. Nintendo is trying to give us a tip that may fix the scrambled graphics (hence why they say "try") but my point is further enforced by the fact that even after releasing Missingno. the Hall of Fame will still be glitched. The text in the article does not go against it's citation in any way, so I would say I used the source correctly and I don't see any "hidden meanings".

Finally, there's no need to edit the article until you can respond to my points above, and actually refute them as opposed to beating around the bush. Thank you, Artichoker^[talk] 14:46, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Scrambled graphics may be a form of data corruption, but once again you're trying to squeeze out of the true discussion here. The article States that MissingNo. causes *save* data corruption, which is an entirely different thing from regular data corruption.

Again, you acknowledge the player's role in saving the game. If the player has complete control over any aspect of saving in the game, then there is no save data corruption. Sava data corruption is outside the control of the player because the very nature of that corruption is to be outside of the player's control.

It doesn't matter if the graphics for the Hall of Fame are permanently scrambled or not. The issue at hand is *save* data corruption and a few scrambled graphics still allow the player to continue their current save file, save over it, or delete it at any time. Therefore there is no save data corruption when it comes to MissingNo. scrambling the graphics.

Finally, you can't "reinforce your point" because the citation gives a solution to the scrambled graphics and saying it doesn't work is original research. Now, unless you can get Nintendo to revise the citation and clearly state "This does not work, but we're going to tell you anyways," this article's interpretation is wrong. The fact that the citation doesn't say that even makes it more obvious; why would they suggest something if they know it doesn't work? Whether or not we know doesn't matter; what matters it what the citation says, and anything stated otherwise is original research.

Your entire argument is based off of personal experience which can be considered nothing more than original research and you keep trying to reroute the issue to something else, when I'm not going to fall for it. I've clearly proven my point beyond a shadow of a doubt, yet you wont admit to your fault. This issue is about SAVE data corruption. Not ordinary data corruption. Not scrambled graphics. Not even player-intentioned saving. Once again, I give you the opportunity to prove to me that the article should remain as is. Otherwise I'm editing it by the end of the week. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.243.201.210 (talk) 22:12, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Firstly, for all we know, Missingno. does corrupt the save data. That's what the citation implies, and saying that Missingno. doesn't is original research, if you want to go in that route with your frivolous OR claims. However, I see your point, so I will change the disputed text from 'save data' to 'game data', because Missingno. definitely scrambles the graphics which is considered game data corruption. Will this work? Artichoker^[talk] 22:36, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

That revision would actually suggest something much worse than what we were originally discussing. 71.243.201.210 (talk) 02:36, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Oh? Why the sudden change in heart? Artichoker^[talk] 02:57, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

At first the revision seemed fair as a compromise, but then after reading it several more times I realized it wasn't really a compromise because it left the phrase worse then either of our perceptions. "corrupting GAME data" suggests that MissingNo. actually somehow gets into the programming of the game instead of just that particular file, which would be permanent no matter how many times you restart the game.

Would this work for you? Instead of "...including scrambling the graphics or even corrupting the game data." it could say "...including scrambling the graphics permanently unless restarted." This implies corruption, but makes it clear that it isn't permanent. 71.243.201.210 (talk) 03:14, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

<outdent> Fair enough; I've made the change. Artichoker^[talk] 17:40, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

I think this is the best we can do without getting into unnecessary details. Thanks for the compromise. Jackal Killer (talk) 04:36, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

I'm still new at this, but would it be a good idea to put one of those "resolved" images on this? It seems like it would finish up this talk article nicely. Jackal Killer (talk) 14:25, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Resolved tags aren't used that much, especially on a dispute only involving two editors. I don't think there is much to gain from putting a tag on here, but thanks for your concern. Artichoker^[talk] 14:46, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Guys, I wrote a really good separate article on Missingno., but some lame editor rejected it. Here it is:

Missingno.

Misssingno. is an infamous video game glitch known to occur in the Pokemon Red and Blue games for Nintendo's handheld video game console, the Nintendo Game Boy. Missingno. is a pokemon that usually, but not always appears to be a "glitchy" or unorganized pixelated blob. It alternately appears as "M'Block", depending on unknown factors in each individual game.

How To Catch Missingno.

It is generally accepted that a particular sequence of events will lead to the capture of Missingno.. Below are the most commonly described steps of how to catch the pokemon Missingno..

1. Fly to Viridian City

2. Talk to the man who needed to be given coffee earlier in the game's storyline

3. He will ask you if you are in a hurry. Respond "no"

4. A cutscene will initiate in which he will show you how to catch pokemon

5. After the cutscene finishes, fly to Cinnabar Island

6. Surf along the coast where the sand meets the ocean in Cinnibar Island

7. Continue surfing until you see a pokemon named "Missingno." or "M'Block"

8. Catch it as you would with a normal pokemon

It is also possible to catch Missingno. with a Game Shark, though Game Sharks are not officially licensed by Nintendo.

Properties

Missingno. has four different possible sprites, one, "Glitch Form" is a pixelated block that may disrupt the game briefly before it appears, the Kabutops Fossil, appearing like the Kabutops fossil from the game, Aerodactyl fossil, appearing like the Aerodactyl fossil from the game, and "Ghost Missingno.", appearing like the unidentified ghosts from the Vermilion city tower in the game. "M'block" however, only appears in "Glitch Form". They are both "normal/bird" type, which is bizarre considering the fact that "bird type" does not exist in the game, and bird-like pokemon are described "flying type". Missingo. is pokemon number 00, which also normally does not exist. When caught, it knows the moves water gun, (twice, which is normally impossible) and sky attack. There are reports of it destroying the player's Hall Of Fame data, causing graphical glitches, or even corrupting saved game data after it is placed in the PC storage system. It can be leveled up through training but if fed a rare candy it evolves into a Kangaskan.

What causes the Missingno. Glitch

It is believed that the cause of the Missingno. glitch is that on the aforementioned strip of land near Cinnabar Island, the programmers declared that pokemon could appear there, but did not determine which types. When you talk to the "OLD MAN" the variables that make up "YOUR NAME" are reassigned to "OLD MAN". The variables that determine "YOUR NAME" must be recalled later, so they are stored in the space that determines what pokemon can appear where you currently are. This would normally not have an effect, because these variables would be rewritten once you enter a space where wild pokemon can appear. Near Cinnabar Island, The variables making up "YOUR NAME" are assigned to the hexadecimal values of what pokemon can appear there. Because of the relation to the hexadecimal values that make up "YOUR NAME" to those that determine wild pokemon species, the appearance of some form of Missingno. or "M'Block" is possible with any player name.

What do you think? Message me on my talk page.

--Dudemeister1234 (talk) 22:25, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

game guide, fancruft, fails several Wikipedia policies. MelicansMatkin (talk) 23:30, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Although it would be nice to have such detailed information on MissingNo., this is Wikipedia and we can't have information on every minor aspect in the world. In any case, your sources cannot be considered official, and they provide misinformation. Most of the information they provide was stolen from a friend of a friend of mine. Not only that, but Bulbapedia already has a nice article on the subject, so you can go check that out. Jackal Killer (talk) 03:25, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

That is the exact reason why. I do not think it belongs in this article however. --Fivexthethird (talk) 22:23, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Please note that Wikipedia goes by references, NOT facts! This is one of the major reasons why Wikipedia is not a "true" Encyclopedia. I've read a site that actually does state the correct facts about MissingNo. but the editors of Wikipedia keep changing it back due to the references (which CAN be incorrect) stating otherwise. 97.115.65.46 (talk) 04:03, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

Alternate Pokémon

Saw this article linked on Dogasu's Backpack; since it's the original article I have here it should be okay as a source: link. In a nutshell it describes how alternate Pokémon designs were proposed for the American market in fear that the original creatures were too "cute". Might be something to put in a Development section. MelicansMatkin (talk) 23:47, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the source. I integrated it into the development section. Artichoker^[talk] 23:07, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Pokemon Green's bit seems...out of place

It's been bugging me, and with the added info looks moreso. Technically, even though it's another version of the game, I'm inclinded to feel the discussion about it should be place in Development, since the other two are clearly titles developed post-release. What does everyone else think?--Kung Fu Man (talk) 04:06, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

You do have a point there. As Green was part of the original games that were released it could make more sense to incorporate it into the development section. Artichoker^[talk] 14:46, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

done. Artichoker^[talk] 15:05, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

apart from the obvious incompetency of the translator, how is the green version different? -smacd 5/4/11 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.220.100.14 (talk) 20:25, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

A class assessment

Comment: Its all good, but my only problem to this Good Article (some pun intended) is that is the picture in the Pokémon Yellow section a fairuse image? GamerPro64 (talk) 19:31, 20 August 2009 (UTC])

Support: O.K. GamerPro64 (talk) 20:14, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Non-free fair use. It's used in another article as well though (I think Overworld makes use of it as well).--Kung Fu Man (talk) 20:03, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Support - As someone who knows nothing about Pokemon I was able to clearly understand the article. There were no weasel words, and it was well written, well sourced, and fit all the other A-Class criteria. --Teancum (talk) 13:19, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Comments: This was quite an interesting and informative read. It is close to A-class level, but here are issues that stood out to me.

• The game titles in the lead are rather "uninviting" for lack of a better term. This may be a good situation for "Notes" usage, but I'm not sure if that will improve readability. Your call.
  • I went ahead and made it a footnote.
• The term Pokemon isn't clarified in the "Gameplay" section. The rest of this section does a superb job of explaining the games.
• Mentioning the review scores in the prose when they're already in the score table seems redundant to me. The IGN score would be an exception, but I would say "perfect score" or "highest rating" rather than "10/10".
• There are a lot of quotes in the "Reception" section. I think they should be paraphrased more.
• The section for FireRed and LeafGreen is rather short compared to the Yellow section. Per Wikipedia:Summary style, this section should summarize Pokémon FireRed and LeafGreen. I suggest taking its lead and trimming it down of unnecessary context already established in this article.
  • Done.
• The lack of a specific legacy for such an important topic is a red flag in my mind, but I think the "Reception" and "Other versions" give the bare minimum details of its legacy. Something keep in mind for FAC if that is the ultimate goal; toys, clothing, part of an anime series, and card game are all based directly on these specific games.

Once the above issues are addressed, I'll be happy to support for A-class. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 20:45, 1 September 2009 (UTC))

• Thanks for the review, I should be able to address the other issues when I get more time. Artichoker^[talk] 01:55, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
  • Crossed out addressed issues. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 16:15, 21 September 2009 (UTC))

Jappalang's opinions

Lede

• "Pokémon Red and Blue are the first installments of the Pokémon series of role-playing video games developed by ..."

  It is not very obvious that these are two separate games. In fact, sometimes the article (and sources) treats them as a single item (an issue that percolates through the text). There should be a focus on this.

  Why is there a reference for a footnote after the names, calling attention to the Japanese names? Could this not be worked into the text? I see a possibility of this in Development since it is there that the games' conception is talked about.

• "They were first released in Japan in 1996 and later released to North America in 1998, and Europe and Australia in 1999 over the following two years. Pokémon Yellow, a special edition version, was released in each of the four regions roughly a year later in each region after Red and Blue's respective releases."

• "... master Pokémon battling ..."

  Is Pokémon battling a martial art? Without defining what a Pokémon is, an unfamiliar reader would assume so (and he might not care, nor is compulsed, to click links).

• "... by defeating the Elite Four."

  The who? Would it not be clearer to state "... by defeating the top four Pokémon trainers of the land."?

• "Red and Blue also utilize use the Game Link Cable, which connects two games together and allows Pokémon to be traded or battled with between games."

  "Use" is much simpler than "utilize" (this article uses several of the latter). "Connects two games together" gives the idea that two different games can be connected; I suspect there is a missing pronoun or an incorrect construct here. "... to be traded or battled with between games.": the lil critters are traded by games and not players?

• "... while they can be played separately, it is necessary for players to trade among between the two in order to obtain all 151 Pokémon."

  "In order to" (several are in this article) is a wordy version of "to". "To trade between the two [games]": the trade is between games and not players (same as above)?

• "Red and Blue received strong reviews, with critics praising the multiplayer options, especially the concept of trading."

  The construct "..., with ... -ing ..." is not good. It can be easily reworded to "Red and Blue received strong reviews; critics praised the multiplayer options, especially the concept of trading."

• "... marked the beginning of what would become a multi-billion dollar franchise,"

Gameplay

• "Red and Blue are in a third-person, overhead perspective and consist of three basic screens: ..."

  I doubt the catridges "are in a third-person, overhead perspective and consist of three basic screens". I believe the subject is supposed to be gameplay, but of the three screens, only the overworld is a "third-person, overhead perspective". Some reconsideration is needed here.

• "The player can use his or her Pokémon to battle other Pokémon."

  What are Pokémon? Jargon should be explained on first use.

• "... the screen switches to a turn-based battle screen ..."

  The screen is "turn-based"?

• "During battle, the player may select a maneuver for his or her Pokémon to perform, have his or her character use an item, switch his or her active Pokémon, or have his or her character attempt to flee."

  "Switch his or her active Pokémon" with? Rephrasing needed for the entire sentence, possibly breaking up the choices or consolidating them.

• "... when a Pokémon's HP is reduced to zero ..."

  How is its HP reduced?

• "After accumulating enough EXP, a Pokémon may level up. A Pokémon's level controls its physical properties, such as the battle statistics acquired, and the moves learned. increases in power (up to a maximum level), improving its combat capabilities and gaining new moves."

• "Capturing Pokémon is another essential element of the gameplay."

  What is the first "essential element"?

• "During battle with a wild Pokémon, the player may throw a Poké Ball at it."

  The player throws a ball at the screen (note the in-game/real-world issue)?

• "Factors in the success rate of capture include the HP of the target Pokémon and the type of Poké Ball used: tThe lower the target's HP and the stronger the type of Poké Ball, the higher the success rate of capture."

• "... in the Pokédex, a comprehensive Pokémon encyclopedia ..."

• "Pokémon Red and Blue allow players to trade Pokémon between two cartridges via a Game Link Cable. This method of trading must be done to fully complete the Pokédex, since each of the two games has version-exclusive Pokémon."

  The catridges are connected by the cable? The first sentence is a disruption between "... trading to obtain all 151 creatures" and "... to fully complete the Pokédex ...". Rephrase the two sentences to maintain the flow of ideas.

• "When playing Red or Blue on a Game Boy Advance or SP, the standard GBA/SP link cable will not work; players must use the Nintendo Universal Game Link Cable instead."

  Why are we teaching the reader what to do? If this is crucial for the article, it should be rephrased. Avoid "must"s and instruction-like phrases.

• "Moreover, the English versions of the games are not compatible with their Japanese counterparts,; and such trades will result in corruption of the trading Pokémon between the two corrupts save files because the games use different languages and therefore character sets each language uses a different character set from the other."

• "As well as trading with each other and Pokémon Yellow, Pokémon Red and Blue can trade Pokémon with the second generation of Pokémon games: ..."

  It is not the players who trade?

• "However, there are some limitations: ..."

• I think a complete rewrite of Gameplay could be warranted. Think of a 10-year-old reader unfamiliar with Pokémon. Describe:
  1. the game type,
  2. the interface, and
  3. the manner of play.

  Something like how the two titles are games in which players play a character who captures monsters called Pokémon to fight them against others of their kind, then talk about one type of screen before moving to the other in a sequential order.

Setting

• "This is one distinct region of many shown in later games, with different geographical habitats for the 151 existing Pokémon species, along with human-populated towns and cities, and Routes connecting locations to one another."

  The sentence is running-on; furthermore, why is "routes" capitalized?

• "... once the player character learns gains a special ability or gains a special item."

Synopsis

• "After venturing alone into deep grass, a voice warns the player to stop. Professor Oak, a famous Pokémon researcher, explains to the player that wild Pokémon may be living there, and encountering them alone can be very dangerous."

  This seems overly specific to the point of triviality; the details are neither crucial to the plot nor to information connected to the other sections of the article. Simply, one can delete these sentences and replace the pronoun of the following sentence, "He ..." with "Professor Oak, a famous Pokémon researcher, ...".

• All instances of "player" should be "player character" or his name; does the protagonist not have a name? The Development section mentions a "Satoshi"; is that the name of the protagonist?

• "They devise numerous plans for stealing rare Pokémon, all of which the player must foil."

  Why should the plans of Team Rocket be foiled?

Development

• "... a popular pastime which game designer Satoshi Tajiri enjoyed as a child..."

• "While growing up, however, he observed more the increasing urbanization taking place in the town where he lived and as a result, of his hometown, resulting in the decline of the local insect population declined."

• "Tajiri noticed that the growing inclination of kids now to played in their homes instead of outside ..."

• "... and then controlling them to represent fear or anger as a good way of relieving stress."

  I fail to see how one could make Pokémon represent those emotions and how they would be a good way to relieve stress...

• "However, Pokémon never bleed or die in battle, only faint – this was a very touchy subject to Tajiri, as he did not want to further fill the gaming world with "pointless violence.""

  Change to "Tajiri did not favor "pointless violence"; thus, Pokémon neither bleed nor die in battle, they just faint when defeated."

• "This concept of trading information was new to the video gaming industry,; because previously connection cables were only being used for competition by players to compete against each other on separate devices."

• "... said Tajiri. Tajiri He noted that was also influenced by Square's Game Boy game The Final Fantasy Legend, noting in an interview that the game gave him the idea that more than just action games could be developed inspired him to develop games of other genres for the handheld."

  Clarify "... more than just action games ...", is it similar to "... games of other genres ..."?

• "The main characters were named after Tajiri himself as Satoshi, who is described as Tajiri in his youth, and his long-time friend, role model, mentor, and fellow Nintendo developer; Shigeru Miyamoto as Shigeru."

  Who are Satoshi and Shigeru?

• "... headed the development of drawings and designs of the Pokémon, and the music was composed by ..."

• "Utilizing Using the four musical notes the Game Boy could produce, Masuda also created the sound effects ..."

• "... using white noise to sound like imitate marching music and imitate played on a snare drum."

• "Tajiri always thought that Nintendo would reject his game, as the company did not really understand the concept at first and reject his game."

• "However, the games turned out to be a complete success, something Tajiri and Nintendo never expected, especially because of the declining popularity of the Game Boy."

  This is non-sequiter with the preceding sentence. We are led to think that the game would be rejected, but no result came of that. "However" implies that the preceding sentence should state an expentancy of the game's failure. This is not the case.

• "Upon hearing of the Pokémon concept, ..."

• "In addition, to create more hype and challenge to the games To "[create] a lot of rumors and myths about the game" and "[keep] the interest alive", Tajiri revealed that an extra Pokémon called Mew that was implemented into the games, which he believed "created a lot of rumors and myths about the game" and "kept the interest alive.""

• "... renaming them for western audiences based on their appearance and characteristics after approval from Nintendo of Japan. In addition, dDuring this process ..."

  Watch the placement, the "approval" is for "their appearance and characteristics"? The starting sentence is a bit long, so some rephrasing into shorter sentences could do better.

• "the games had to be entirely reprogrammed from scratch due to the fragile state of their source code, a side effect of the unusually lengthy development time."

  How would a "lengthy development time" result in "fragile" source code (speaking as a software engineer)?

• "Therefore the games were based on the more-modern Japanese version of Pokémon Blue; modeling its programming and artwork, but keeping the same distribution of Pokémon found in the Japanese Red and Green cartridges, respectively."
• I doubt there "more-modern" is hyphenated. Furthermore, the semi-colon is misused here, and what is meant by "the same distribution of Pokémon"?

• "As the finished English versions of Red and Blue versions were being prepared for release, Western localizers warned that the "cute monsters" may not be accepted by American audiences, and instead recommended they be redesigned and "beefed-up" redesigning the creatures to be muscular."

• "Then-president of Nintendo's then-president Hiroshi Yamauchi refused, and instead vieweding the games' possible reception in America as a challenge to face."

• "Despite these setbacks, ..."

  How is Yamauchi's refusal a setback (and what are the other setbacks)?

• "... the reprogrammed Red and Blue versions, with retaining their original creature designs, were eventually released in North America over more than two and a half years after Red and Green debuted in Japan."

• "The games were received extremely well by the foreign audiences and Pokémon went on to becoame a lucrative franchise in America."

Reception and legacy

• "... set the precedent for what has become a blockbuster, ..."

• "In Japan, Red, Green, and Blue combined have sold 8.2 million copies, while in the United States, Red and Blue have sold 8.6 million copies."

• "... entered the Guinness Book of World Records for as the "Best selling RPG on the Game Boy" and ..."

• "The games received mostly positive reviews from critics, holding obtaining an aggregate score of 89% on GameRankings."

• "Especial praise ..."

  What is "especial"?

• "... the ability for players to trade and battle Pokémon with one another."

• "... as somewhat primitive ..."

  Is "somewhat" part of a quotation?

• "In Pokémon games, X said the lack of these artificial effects in Pokémon games has actually been said to promotes the child's imagination and creativity."

  Such a statement has to be expressly cited to the speaker, X.

• "The video gaming website 1UP.com composed a list of the "Top 5 'Late to the Party' Games" showing selected titles that "prove a gaming platform's untapped potential" and were one of the last games released for their respective console."

  Note the pluraity and other issues: "... 1UP.com composed a list ... showing selected titles that [did something] and were one of the last games ..." Please rephrase the sentence.

• "Red and Blue were ranked first, and called Nintendo's "secret weapon" when the games were brought out for the Game Boy in the late 1990s."

  Tense issues: the two games "called"?

• "... named the games one of the best Nintendo games of all time ..."

  Two games equals one?

• "Two years later, it climbed the ranks to number 70 ..."

  Are they one or two games?

• "... with the games' legacy again noted to have inspired multiple video game ..."

  The "with" makes an ungainly long sentence again. Drop it, split this clause off from the preceding clause with a semi-colon and rephrase accordingly.

• "... and the reviewers remarked at on the games' longevity: ..."

• "... with starting the series and helping to pave the way ..."

  What series?

• "The company has since sold over 175 million games, all accredited to the enormous success of the original Red and Blue versions."

  About the 175 million games, are they every Nintendo game or just the Pokémon games?

Pokémon Yellow

• "The game is a slightly updated version of the previous two games, Pokémon Red and Blue, and featuresing ..."

• "It was released for the Game Boy in Japan on September 12, 1998;, and in North America, on October 1, 1999; in Europe on June 16, 2000; and in Australia in 2000 over the next two years."

  <personal rant>Seriously, I am finding the practice of listing every release in detail tiresome...</personal rant>

• "Along with the release, a special-edition, yellow, Pokémon-themed Game Boy Color was also available for purchase."

  Suggestion: "A special-edition, yellow, Pokémon-themed Game Boy Color was produced and promoted at the same time as the game's release."

• "... to make the game its plot more similar to the animated series."

• "... all three Red and Blue starter Pokémon being available from NPCs, and the anime's characters Jessie, James, and Meowth making appearances"

  "Noun plus -ing"s.

• "In North America the game received roughly 150,000 pre-orders, and debuteding second in sales and claimeding the top spot a week later."

• "It was difficult to find during its release ..."

  Where was it difficult to find?

• "the standard cartridge ..."

  Is there a non-standard catridge?

• "... within a span of one a month."

Pokémon FireRed and LeafGreen

• "... enhanced remakes of the 1996 original Pocket Monsters Pokémon Red and Green video games."

• "... for the Game Boy Advance. and have compatibility with The games could be played on wireless connections provided by the Game Boy Advance Wireless Adapter, which was originally came bundled with the games."

• "Most critics praised the fact that the games for introduceding new features while still maintaining the traditional gameplay of the series."

  Which sources?

• "Reception of their graphics and audio was more mixed,; with some reviewers complaininged that they were too simplistic and not much of an improvement over the previous games, Pokémon Ruby and Sapphire."

  Who is "some reviewers"?

• "FireRed and LeafGreen were commercial successes ..."

  Unless the costs are known to make that statement, which third-party source(s) qualified these games as commercial successes?

See also
Once the target is for FA, this section would generally be redundant (due to working most links into the main text for comprehensiveness). Any remaining links are generally those that are highly related, but could not be worked in. I fail to see how List of Kanto gym leaders is highly related to these games (it seems like trivia), nor why Pokémon video game series is here when it is already in the Infobox and over-linked three times in the text.

References
The page formattings need to be standardized; I see singular pages prefixed with "pp.", which are for multiple pages, and some are not even prefixed at all.

Images

• File:Pokemon red box.jpg and File:Pokémon Red, Blue, and Yellow screenshot.png require better Purposes of use.

• File:Pokemon gb ashandpikachu.png require a better FUR (use a template and explain the purpose).

The key to a useful FURs is to explain (usually via Purpose of use) to image reviewers why the image is useful to readers and why removing it would be detrimental to the article, not how it is used in the article.

Sources

• Videogames: Brief information on Red and Blue, possible to use this to replace some of the cites.

• Millennial monsters: Japanese toys and the global imagination: solid paper source that can replace several cites.

• Pikachu's global adventure: the rise and fall of Pokémon: another solid paper source to replace some cites and offer some additional information (spin-offs, etc).

• Japan after Japan: social and cultural life from the recessionary 1990s to the present: another solid paper source to replace cites for development information, and possible new stuff as well.

• Digital play: the interaction of technology, culture, and marketing: marketing strategies for the games (basically, Red and Blue were to launch the franchise into North America).

• Strategy: winning in the marketplace : core concepts, analytical tools, cases: PC Data shows Blue and Red as the Top 7th and 8th, respectively, Selling console games as of May 2000.

• The blockbuster toy!: how to invent the next big thing: marginal(?)[1] paper source

There seems to be information missing from the article. As noted in the failed FAC, print sources are solely lacking, and I note it is still the case. The sources above show this should not be so. Unless the web sources (reliable ones that is) are more comprehensive than printed ones, there should be no reason to exclude the latter as references for the article.

Overall, there is an outstanding problem with prose, over-familiarity with the subject, and other issues presented above. There is much work that is needed to be done before this can go to FAC (if that is the target). A revision from a person who is at most only slightly familiar with the subject before reading this article would also help. Jappalang (talk) 02:02, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Oh wow. Thats very a very comprehensive review @_@. I skimmed over it and agree with most of what you said. I cant wait to see it implemented. _Blake ^{(Talk·Edits)} 03:13, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Question

Under "development", is Hiro Nakamura really the name of the lead behind US localization? Seems fishy given the NBC Heroes character of the same name... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hornpipe2 (talk • contribs) 03:55, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Yeah I know, that threw me for a loop too. But yep, he was. The EGM article names him specifically even, and it was written in 1999. It's just an odd coincidence.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 04:00, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Mascot.

This kind of irked me. Shouldn't it show somewhere that Venusaur, Charizard, and Blastoise are the version mascots of these games? I know its somewhat trivial, but I think people will wonder what exactly that is on the front of the boxart. Thoughts? _Blake ^{(Talk·Edits)} 03:13, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

I think that came up earlier with a box art issue for Gold and Silver, and it was decided to use only one of them instead of both.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 11:41, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

I am not saying show multiple boxarts, but describe what is on them. Like for example Charizard is on the boxart of Red, and is in the infobox of this article. I Ctrl+F'ed the page for "Charizard" and found nothing. Shouldn't we explain what is on the boxart? _Blake ^{(Talk·Edits)} 12:47, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Sales figures

Are the figures (2000) out of date? http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Best_selling_Nintendo_games says 20.68 million. -lysdexia 11:48, 1 December 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.226.120.247 (talk)

See Also...

How is "List of Kanto gym leaders" even remotely relevant to the article? Might as well add list of towns in Pokemon Red and Blue, List of Caves in Pokemon Red and Blue, List of Pokemon in Red and Blue... You get the idea. In fact, I think that last one is actually slightly more relevant than a list of gym leaders. Canine virtuoso (talk) 04:15, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Well, they used to have their own article, but they got merged a few months ago. I guess they should be removed. _Blake ^{(Talk·Edits)} 13:00, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Last Game Boy game?

Isn't Pokemon Yellow the last Game Boy game released in NA/EU? I can't find a reference for it though... --Mika1h (talk) 12:15, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Well, it would be a tad easier to find if List of games for the original Game Boy was fixed up. That would be a cool title though. "Last GameBoy Game" _Blake ^{(Talk·Edits)} 12:32, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Merge with green?

There's been a tag to merge Pokémon Green into this article for four years now. Looking at the page histories I can see that the articles have been merged and split in the past. Can we see if we can reach a consensus and either merge the articles or remove the tag? Discussion here Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Pokémon#Merge --Deutschgirl (talk) 04:33, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

Th article's GA status

In my opinion the GA could (and should) be run again. The article seems a little parlous ATM.--Zucchinidreams (talk) 15:58, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

I think a review of it(and the other games) would do some good. I am trying to get Pokémon HeartGold and SoulSilver up for GA, and they are mentioning things that aren't even done on these articles. _Blake ^{(Talk·Edits)} 17:05, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Question/request

I've been searching wikipedia for a list of the version-specific exclusive pokemon and have turned up nothing. Does anybody know the exclusive pokemon or give reference to the page? - smacd —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.220.100.14 (talk) 20:38, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Wikipeida is not a gameguide, so we do not list this information. If you went to a fansite like Serebii or Bulbapedia, you would have easily found your answer. See here for more information. _Blake ^{(Talk·Edits)} 20:49, 5 April 2011 (UTC)