Talk:Party for Justice, Integration and Unity

Main Point

I was looking through this section and it's barely understandable. I didn't really know how to address it without deleting it all... CurlyPop88 (talk) 19:15, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

Section removed (2011 Census)

This article is about PDIU, not about "Census of 2011 in Albania" or "Minorities in Albania" or "Greeks in Albania". For this topics, use the existing articles, or open new ones if needed. Make sure the references are not only Greek and only in Greek language.
Mondiad (talk) 14:55, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

If you have read this section you will easily conclude that it concerns the involvement of the specific party in the procedure and therefore its suitable for this article.Alexikoua (talk) 19:19, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

Every one had to say something about the census, and actually did. It does not mean we had to add a section to every Albanian article about the census. And try to find some references other than Greek newspapers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mondiad (talk • contribs) 12:47, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

This is not about 'everyone' reaction, but about the specific reaction of this party (pdiu) on the issue, which is off course relevant & an attempt to remove without a single argument so far is disruptive.Alexikoua (talk) 22:11, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

In case wp:ninja continues, its better to send the case in wp:ani.Alexikoua (talk) 16:04, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

Disruptive are the "amazing editing" of Greek wikipedians who try to infiltrate the axiom that "the Greeks in Albania have suffered", and surprisingly try to do this in the Cham party article subsection, though knowing very well the story of the Cham people. The result is that most of the article of the Cham party does not talk about what the party did or does, but talks about how the Greek newpapers i.e. To Bima or Eleutheria claim the Greeks are being pressured. (?)

If you are so interested in human rights, minority rights, or Greek-Albanian relations go and write and article about the Cham expulsion, or how the Albanian immigrants get beaten when Greece looses a soccer match, or go and add the Albanian name of Konitsa and Ioannina.

Then I will believe you care so much about the wiki articles (not to be disruptive) as you say.

Mondiad (talk) 19:53, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

I'm afraid you should first read wp:what wikipedia is. First of all, the version you want to be removed was a concesus version between Greek&Albanian editors. To sum up, your proposal appears to be entirely problematic:

1. Useless info about legal procedures, entirely cited by primary sources (this is irrelevant with this article indeed).
2. Poorly and povish written: the first conclusion after the decision is as follows: PDIU claimed the amendments as a victory over Greek chauvinism ... You cares about the personal povs of every side? This needs to be written in a neutral style and placed after a neutral description of the events.
3. Neutral opinion by human rights organizations is completely absent.Alexikoua (talk) 14:45, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

1. I got the explanation from the Ministry's web site, your conclusion come from what you think that the law does, and it is nothing legally complicated there, it says the same thing but in a formal way. We are talking about a census law, not some teenager discussions.Mondiad (talk) 22:10, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

   PDIU claimed it as a a victory over chauvinism, that is true. There is a reference from their website. I did not say "I claim it", I said "PDIU claimed it", and that is totally true. Why are you surprised with that? The same as PBDNJ claims it the other way. There is nothing neutral or non-neutral here, just stating the both sides positioning.Mondiad (talk) 22:10, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

   And the fact that the Greek have been oppressed in Communism is based on Greek newspapers, can be 4, can be 14, it is the same point if view. You cannot mark it as default that they have been forced to change nationality, and based on that keep discussing about the PDIU law. That statement itself is more important and disputed than any law, or political party positioning. You cannot seal it up that "the Greeks have been oppressed" just with one sentence inside PDIU's article. Maye you can say that the Greek side claims (or PBDNJ claims) that "many people have lost their nationality during Communism". Then we would have a starting point for a consensus. But you cannot give it as an axiom like it was something so insignificant.Mondiad (talk) 22:10, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

It's not about what the Human Rights party claim, but organizations that represent the 5 main minority groups in the country & international human rights organizations. Moreover, the fact that minorities were persecuted by stalinist-era Albania is supported by academic sources (added 2 but its easy to find a mountain of bibliography).Alexikoua (talk) 13:01, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

2013 Elections

2013 Elections are not presented here. The article needs an update
Mondiad (talk) 14:55, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

Shoqata Cameria

The organization "Cameria" is not mentioned anywhere in the article, though its official logo appears here (PDIU article), and there is a strong connection between the two.
Mondiad (talk) 15:19, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

Sure, even if something will be added in the future on this, the logo has no place in this article.Alexikoua (talk) 19:20, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

PDIU is a Far-Right nationalist party, not a Center-Right one…

It came to my notice that the Wikipedia flagged the PDIU as a center-right political party, while it is not. PDIU is a far-right extremist propagandist political party (pictures in the link, below) as it promotes extreme nationalism and makes verbal shouts against the ethnic Macedonian and Greek Minorities of Albania. Recently, PDIU was fined by the Tirana Court for insulting the Macedonians by removing bilingual signs in East Albania, while a week ago, the PDIU organized a nationalist parade, and thus, raising anti-Greek sentiments among the Albanian population, due to the visit of the Greek President Mr. Karolos Papoulias to Albania.
Also I shall note that the PDIU recently made ridiculous claims over the territory of Greece which PDIU prefers to call as Chameria mostly for irredentist reasons related to Greater Albania and made provocative demands over the identity of many notable Greek figures, claiming that these personalities (such as the President Papoulias, Pyrros Dimas, Theodoros Kolokotronis, Laskarina Bouboulina, Markos Botsaris and many others), are Albanian and not Greek in origin.

- Here some photos of PDIU's nationalist parades where it promotes propaganda against Greece:
www.himara.gr/blog/2469-oi-alvanotsamides-diekdikoun-kolokotroni-mpoumpoulina-tzavela-mpotsari.

The PDIU is not a Center-Right political Party… As far as I know, the Center-Right parties are not extremist nor are promoting extreme nationalism in their ideologies. A true example of a Center-Right party is the Democratic Party of Albania, which, in contrast to PDIU, is patriotic, but not nationalist. When the Wikipedia flags a such extremist and nationalist party simply as "Center-Right", by using sources of disputed reliability (disputed, as it comes in contrast to the party's actions and behavior), then you can not but doubt this page's reliability and its sources. --SilentResident (talk) 19:06, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

PDIU is center right, because it affiliates with center right. Not for any right wing political vision or anything else. It can be easily placed as centrist or pura nationalistic. Its program is mostly focused on the Cham issue and partly other nationalistic issues. I don't know where you guys found the references to tell the difference between center-right and far-right inside PDIU programme.

As far as for the blog mentioned above, www.himara.gr, you can tell how neutral it is from the domain. And it is only a blog, it cannot be a source of truth.

regarding "PDIU recently made ridiculous claims over the territory of Greece which PDIU prefers to call as Chameria mostly for irredentist reasons", PDIU members are from Chamouria, their homes and properties, and because they consider an injustice is made over the Albanians in Epirus. I'd suggest to read a little before jumping to conclusions.Mondiad (talk) 23:26, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

PDIU's remarks and actions, such as the vandalism of Greek soldier gravestones in Southern Albania sparked outrage in Greece. PDIU's ambush of Macedonians and Romas is criticized in the Republic of Macedonia. Also Serbia condemned it for its nationalist remarks regarding the Presevo Valley. Im really surprised to see it listed as a centerright political party while its political philosophy is far-right colored. --2.85.78.63 (talk) 16:16, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

the vandalism of Greek soldier gravestones in Southern Albania sparked outrage in Greece ?? Serbia condemned PDIU ?? - this does not mean that they are left-wing or right-wing. Where do you read all this events you mention above by the way, I never heard of such things. As far as the orientation, being a nationalistic party does not automatically qualify you as a extreme-right. I.e. Milloshevic was leader of the Socialist Party, it does not mean that the Socialist Party was an extreme right one, got the picture?Mondiad (talk) 00:25, 23 November 2013 (UTC)

What Moniad said about the Milocevic/Socialist Party is true, and the same goes with PDIU and it's leader: they are nationalists/fascists, but this doesn't mean that it is not a C-R parti.--37.6.68.156 (talk) 21:44, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

(: "Fascists" is a pretty strong term, but I don't want to continue with the topic, it is not useful. Everyone can have something against PDIU or its leadership, but Wikipedia is not the right place to express pure feelings.Mondiad (talk) 00:23, 25 November 2013 (UTC)