Talk:North American Soccer League

NASL Map

The map needs to be fixed. Among other things, Denver is nowhere near where it should be. If it isn't fixed in a reasonable time, I will remove it. KitHutch 13:57, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

The map hasn't been fixed so I am a removing it. KitHutch (talk) 15:01, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

MLS Part

I don't think that belongs here. Regardless of what happened to the league NASL, it shouldn't be here in it's entirety. It belongs in the MLS article itself. It should say something like, "MLS, now the Division One league of the United States, has taken precautions against such circumstances." And then LINK to the other article. But don't, for goodness sake, just slap the whole thing in there! It LOOKS and SOUNDS stupid and unprofessional, and while I do as well, it's more important that the article does than I do. I'm changing it. T.z0n3 00:23, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Other Discussions

That map is terrible. It shows Denver as being in central Wyoming and Washington D.C. bordering West Virginia, among many other errors.

What about the Detroit Express? They featured Trevor Francis. Why don't you check out or add to the Detroit Express article? They are listed on the team section under the Washington Diplomats because that is where they moved to. KitHutch 01:47, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

I noticed that the teams in the USA all had foreign clubs listed next to them. In clicking some of the USA links, I saw that each team was actually a foreign club under an American euphemism. I added a note to that effect at the top of the USA section, just to clarify the article a bit. --Coryma 02:50, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Can someone please do something with the logo?

What does it mean when it says 'points'? I'm assuming it means number of goals scored, but it's also listed on the individual teams' pages. Does that mean total goals scored by a team? What relation does that have to their record, if any? It also doesn't say anything about the number of games or schedules or league alignment. If someone could add this information, it would be wonderful. PolarisSLBM 13:33, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

The NASL used a points system to determine its scoring champion. Each player received 2 points for each goal they scored and 1 point for each assist. The player with the most points at the end of the season was the scoring champion. It is the same system that MLS used until 2005. See MLS Scoring Champion Award KitHutch 00:03, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Questionable influence of NASL rules on other leagues

This phrase is confusing: "American college and high school soccer still use some NASL-style rules". What rules are those? I understand that the The Laws of the Game allow leagues for younger players to makes changes such as shortened periods, smaller sized balls, more flexible substitution, and fewer players on the field. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.185.201.194 (talk • contribs) 15:06, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Read the article. NASL had a countdown clock and sudden death overtime. Those are still used in college and high school soccer in the US. KitHutch (talk) 17:24, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

But were these NASL innovations that were later adopted by college and high school soccer, or were they rules already being used in American scholastic and amateur leagues integrated into the NASL? —Wiki Wikardo 06:21, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

FA on it.wiki

Am glad to announce that the North American Soccer League has just been voted as "featured article" on it.wiki. As I used also material published in the English article, wish to thank all the users who have contributed to this item. Blackcat it 14:16, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Nasl.png

Image:Nasl.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 16:49, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Script on NASL pages

on the nasl seasons pages what does the V N P GF GS PT stand for Ranul (talk) 17:18, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

It looks like someone copied the NASL seasons from a foreign language website without translating them into English. I would say that V is wins, N is ties, P is losses, GF is Goals For, GS is Goals Against, and PT is points in a season (The NASL had a weird standings systems where teams got 6 points for a win and 1 point for every goal scored up to three pergame). BTW, there is a better article for the final NASL season at 1984 NASL season. KitHutch (talk) 23:06, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Article Name

I disagree with this article being name "North American Soccer League (1968–1984)" and the new NASL article taking the title "North American Soccer League". There are many many many already existing links in other Wikipedia articles that originally linked and referred to this page but now point the upstart league. This was a poorly thought out name change. The original NASL is still very relevant in the history of North American soccer and deserves its former article title with no qualifiers. This 21st century league is the new, unproven entity and therefore should be the one distinguishing itself from the old league — not the other way around. --Blackbox77 (talk) 13:30, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

• Agreed - let's move it back. The other league is only a proposal at this stage, and perhaps nothing more than a bargaining chip between a few teams and USL-1. Nfitz (talk) 15:57, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Too many flags?

There are now altogether too many flags in the article. The rules regarding their use are such that they should not appear next to the team (does anyone not know that Toronto Blizzard, Vancouver Whitecaps, etc. are Canadian teams and the rest are American?). They should also not appear next to a coach or player if the individual is from the same country as the team. I can find the reference, but I would request that this be applied correctly rather than getting into an edit war over the flags' presence. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 19:22, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Agree. There were too many flags on this page. What is the exact policy when it comes to flags per article? KitHutch (talk) 21:19, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Comment. I think that when there are that many flags you must be Wavin' Flag. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 22:00, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

well for players i think it is essential to know what national team they played for. Especially the older generation of players. I mean most people would probably never know there were South Africans playing in the NASL during apartheid. That is important to show instead of just a name. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.169.79.192 (talk) 04:40, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

End of NASL

Next time I am at a library with microfilm of old newspaper I will look up the title of the article from mpls strib on the nasl. [1] this meantions only 2 teams interested in 85 (no names given). Smith03 (talk) 18:50, 3 January 2011 (UTC) NASL suspends operations for 1985 was the title of the story found on page 1D (sport section) Smith03 (talk) 16:57, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

Object to move

Why was this article moved? If it is to follow the naming conventions of other leagues with the same name, then the current NASL should not be under North American Soccer League but North American Soccer League (2010-). KitHutch (talk) 13:15, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

It is the most common use of the term now, but it should have been discussed. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 15:02, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

I'm with KitHutch. Major Indoor Soccer League is the general template for situations such as this. --User:Woohookitty ^{Disamming fool!} 09:04, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm actually going to follow the lead of the MISL/Major League Soccer League pages and make some switches. Why? Because Major Indoor Soccer League goes to a disam page and so should this. There are several thousand links to North American Soccer League and the vast majority are for the original. MISL/Major Indoor Soccer League is a disam page. American Basketball Association actually goes to the original despite a successor league. And it's for the same reasons as this.

I'm creating lots of work for myself by doing this. :) It causes a disam nightmare but this should have been done awhile ago instead of what was done. NASL points to a disam page so this page should as well. Even current franchises' templates like the Vancouver Whitecaps only refer to the North American Soccer League. Looking at the links, a good 90% are for the original NASL not this one.

If anyone objects enough that you want to take it to Requested Moves, I don't have a problem with that. --User:Woohookitty ^{Disamming fool!} 09:17, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm not convinced that the D2 league is truly the primary use of the undisambiguated term. Indeed, it strikes me as a bit of WP:RECENTISM to say it is. I could go along with a disambiguation page, though. oknazevad (talk) 04:27, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

• North_American_Soccer_League_(1968–1984) has been viewed 1425 times in 201112
• North_American_Soccer_League_(1968–1984) has been viewed 124 times in 201111
• North_American_Soccer_League_(1968–1984) has been viewed 139 times in 201110
• North_American_Soccer_League_(1968–1984) has been viewed 108 times in 201109

Before the move, the new league's article was at North_American_Soccer_League.

• North_American_Soccer_League has been viewed 9050 times in 201112
• North_American_Soccer_League has been viewed 10433 times in 201111
• North_American_Soccer_League has been viewed 10448 times in 201110
• North_American_Soccer_League has been viewed 8627 times in 201109

So expect for a spike of ten times the monthly volume in December, the new league was getting about 100 times the page views of the old league. This could possibly be because of the name of the new leagues article, but even then if they clicked-through using the hatnote, I'd expect to see 50% or more of the traffic there, not 1%.

I'd have to argue that your opinion as to which term is the primary use is shattered by the statistics. Feel free to check-out more at http://stats.grok.se/. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 05:28, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

The only link is a disambiguation, which-- if Oknazevad wishes to imply that there is no continuity, serves his purpose well. This is ridiculous. The recent joining of the Cosmos to the NASL has been described in countless articles and papers as "rejoining" the NASL. The only people who disagree at this point are people who still want to call it the "TOA league". Let's please be serious. 67.87.36.182 (talk) 16:15, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

The only connection between the original NASL and the current one is the name. The future New York Cosmos are not related to the original team except for buying the copyright to the name. The other teams in the current NASL with old NASL names are simply that NAMED after the old teams. If I were to suddenly become rich and start a new women's league called the Women's United Soccer Association, that would not mean it is a contuation/reformation of the old league. I would be that I bought the rights to the name of the old league. KitHutch (talk) 16:28, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

I will say one thing, if the new league is to remain at North American Soccer League someone needs to go through and cleanup the thousands of links that are incorrectly pointing to the new league's page when they are intended for this article....--Bobblehead ^(rants) 19:47, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

External links modified

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Missing teams

The Knoxville Sounds, Toledo Battle/Tornado, Omaha Kings or Lincoln Federals, Oakland/New Orleans/Mobile Buccaneers, Provo Strikers, Wichita Wings and California Sunshine (Anaheim/Orange county) were professional soccer teams, not sure they were in NASL. The California Surf were also called the Santa Barbara Surf, while the Los Angeles Aztecs were replaced by the L.A. Olympians in 1984, and I believe the Las Vegas Americans were briefly the Lazers or Lasers (not sure which). And finally, the Dallas Tornado vs. Houston Hurricane rivalry in Texas, again I'm unsure they were NASL teams (never mind, they were, might changed leagues). 67.49.89.214 (talk) 17:05, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

None of these "missing" teams you have listed were ever in the NASL. They were all in other leagues. Look on those teams pages for those leagues. California Surf and Santa Barbara Surf were different teams in different leagues. LA Olympians are not related to the LA Aztecs. KitHutch (talk) 17:22, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

Players table

Is this really needed? What exactly is the criteria? There were a ton of players who won titles in other leagues as Johnny Giles did. And if we include all of those the table would become unwieldy. Plus, some of the players listed didn't have a large impact on the game in North America. For example, Oscar and Johnny Giles only played a handful of matches in the NASL. 1982vdven (talk) 17:42, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

If there are no objections, I will delete it. Any foreign NASL player who had an impact on the game in North America is already mentioned elsewhere.1982vdven (talk) 20:03, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

I'm not sure. It's interesting to see some of those world class names in a list form even for those of us who grew up watching them. I've also noticed that many younger people really don't have a clue about the old NASL. When I mention the Cosmos, the Rowdies or the NASL greats to people under 30 (even here in Tampa), they think I'm talking about these Div. 2 squads playing in the current North American Soccer League –no disrespect intended. Then I tell them to look it up. Guess where the usually wind up looking? Wikipedia. Because soccer has taken so long to take hold in North America, I think the list is a good thing in terms of a visual historical context. MLS has certainly attracted stars in recent years (Beckham, Keane, Henry, Pirlo, Gerrard, Lampard, Kaka, David Villa, etc.), but I would argue that it was a much bigger deal to make the move in the 1970s and that the names themselves were bigger. Regarding Johnny Giles and Oscar specifically; have you considered just removing the two of them. Just my two cents.--Creativewill (talk) 03:18, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

Ok, I will remove Oscar, Giles and Masnik (6 games with the Cosmos in 1975).1982vdven (talk) 18:05, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

Fort Lauderdale Strikers: active or not?

I was wondering everyone's thoughts on whether or not the current Fort Lauderdale Strikers should be considered "active" on the NASL section: Teams named after NASL teams –and therefore be listed in bold type. As you may know they are currently defendants in a lawsuit brought on by the Tampa Bay Rowdies owner for money owed, and are are not playing this year in any league. Their front office organization still exists at this point, but things aren't exactly rosy. Just trying for a consensus, rather than an edit war. What do you think: bold or not bold? cheers to all, -Creativewill (talk) 15:22, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

If they're not playing they're not active. At least that seems to be a pretty straightforward concept. oknazevad (talk) 15:43, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

I agree that "not active" is preferable.Jeff in CA (talk) 21:43, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

Now that Bill Edwards has won both the lawsuit and the auction to control the brand "Fort Lauderdale Strikers" I think that everyone can now agree that the team is inactive. Creativewill (talk) 21:17, 1 July 2017 (UTC)

Attendance references?

I'm having some issues identifying the references for attendance in this article. So far the closest I have seen are this and this, neither of which appear to be reliable sources. Am I missing something here, or are we really lacking citations about the attendance statistics? Jay eyem (talk) 23:06, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

Outlaw?

Twice the article uses "outlaw" in quotes, once also saying "unsanctioned" without quotes. Can these concepts be explained in non-jargon? Especially, the use of quotes with "outlaw" suggests the author was knowingly using the term with some specialized meaning attached, which is going over my head. Swiss Frank (talk) 21:48, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Take a look now. Jeff in CA (talk) 01:38, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 25 September 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Rough consensus that hatnote is sufficient without a dab. (non-admin closure) Alpha3031 (t • c) 15:18, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

---

North American Soccer League (1968–1984) → North American Soccer League – As the primary topic in both common use and long-term significance, I believe the original NASL should not need to be disambiguated while its short-lived reincarnation should remain disambiguated. The second league has been defunct for several years and most coverage in secondary sources in the past few years has been focused on the original NASL. SounderBruce 22:22, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. SounderBruce 22:24, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
• Support as per nom. 162 etc. (talk) 01:02, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

• Support per nom, especially long-term significance. Also would note that there no need to retain the disambiguation page at all per WP:TWODABS. Hatnote would cover it. oknazevad (talk) 02:55, 26 September 2024 (UTC)
• Support - this league is obviously the primary topic by a country mile -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:43, 26 September 2024 (UTC)
• Support as WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, and can hatnote to the other page (so dab page is not needed). Joseph2302 (talk) 12:15, 26 September 2024 (UTC)
• Support per nom.--Ortizesp (talk) 12:29, 26 September 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose Perhaps greater long-term significance, but in the short-term probably still the modern version has a good deal of significance. Page views are currently about 200 per day versus 100 per day. Thereby clearly not an outright dominance RedPatch (talk) 14:14, 26 September 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose per RedPatch, although I'm not a fan of page views. Not a primary topic. GiantSnowman 19:22, 27 September 2024 (UTC)
• Support per nom and long-term significance, as well as in current use. Jeff in CA (talk) 15:26, 30 September 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose per RedPatch. It's not clearly the primary topic. Frost 09:21, 3 October 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose. No primary topic. But not a big deal. The existing hatnotes on both articles are all that is really important. Andrewa (talk) 09:13, 4 October 2024 (UTC)
• Support per nomination and WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. Specifically the long-term significance granted by the NASL being the top-level American Soccer league at the time, while the second incarnation was second fiddle to Major League Soccer during its entire existence. PK-WIKI (talk) 16:53, 4 October 2024 (UTC)
• Weak support - as noted above, the hatnotes are the most important part here, but given the long-term significance argument, a very slight (almost not worth considering) lead in pageviews and argument from PK-WIKI above, which brings another perspective, I think there's no harm in going ahead with this as long as we keep the hatnotes. ASUKITE 18:48, 4 October 2024 (UTC)
• Support Oluwasegu (talk) 22:24, 9 October 2024 (UTC)
• Support Clear PT by usage as well as historical significance. The page views favor the OG by 5:2, which certainly makes it “highly likely to be the topic sought when a reader searches with ‘North American Soccer League’“. I also favor deleting the pointless two-entry dab page. —В²C ☎ 20:39, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
• Support per nom. ~~ Jessintime (talk) 18:34, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
• Support - clear primary topic -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:33, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.